Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[pinturicchio]

ruru being the obvious partner of skitter is because PoE and because her vote on her saying "fuck it if I'm wrong I'm wrong" which seemed so awkward to me.

huh. When I try to read this in its most scummy manner, it's as scum!ruru apologizing in advance because she knows it's town!skitter that she is voting on. Why does she say that when she is voting her partner?

It could be read in both ways, but I see it like "I'm not convinced with this vote" when she clearly knows she's voting for her partner. She had to join the skitter wagon at some point and it seemed the right time since skitter was the most probable lynch on D1 (I still don't get what the hell happened while I was away and Drixx got lynched)

[ofrhz]

@pin - I've been townleaning you for at least a few real-life days. I dont have much time now, but I will go back and find specific posts later. Please remind me if I forget!

Tbh, I was very sure that skitter was town @ end of D1, so I didn't want to vote for her (I think Mathdino may have felt the same? To answer your question about how the skitter wagon died). I basically just followed her vote on Drixx because 1) I wasn't townreading Drixx and he gave off vibes that he was holding something back (like not explaining his reaction test) and 2) because I thought skitter was town, then the most scummy people were ruru and Drixx. 1033 explained this well and I found it convincing.

I feel like I need to re-evaluate my skitter read, because 1) Drixx flip and 2) otherwise I can't find many plausible scumteams.

pedit: haven't read these

[ofrhz]

Also Mathdino townread a lot of people, so he has to be wrong somewhere. What I was trying to say earlier is that if Mathdino was wrong about one thing, he could have been wrong about NSG. But yeah, I'm probably wrong here, since I'm clearly not very good at this game lol.

I don't really see ruru and skitter. They had a bunch of interactions, and I don't see them as being faked.

[ofrhz]

pin or Oxy, if you guys have time, do you mind talking about skitter and scioness? This is where I'm at by PoE

[Oxy]

@ofrhz by end of day mathdino was pretty confident that skitter was town, yeah. I don't think he was as confident as with his nsg read, but he strongly town read skitter.

[Oxy]

@ofrhz about scioness: dino was definitely scum reading Sajj independently of flips. He has her as the number one lynch if drixx flips town, and the number one lynch if drixx flips scum. I think he would have pushed a scioness lynch with more time and less opposition.

I've done a little work going through Sajj's iso, but I don't really have the energy to finish tonight. If you're interested in doing some work there, I suggest looking at her read progression in relation to the arguments she is making and questions she is asking at the time.

Skitter is probably not the lynch to day solely because we didn't lynch her yesterday. May have to be sorted mechanically.

[pinturicchio]

okay i'm willing to fucking lose to scum skitter30

i finished my metadive and unfortunately her scumgames onsite are horribly outdated

nuance and general signs of intelligence are not towntells for her, unfortunately

THAT SAID i think she's towntold in this game in numerous ways that i'd have serious trouble seeing out of her scumgames without, for example, being coached by RC (a thing that happened once in what seems to be her best scumgame lol)

gimme a bit to do a onceover on skitter and to decide on drixx

but yeah we no lynch before we lynch skitter

"I'm willing to fucking lose to scum skitter30" - "her scumgames onsite are horribly outdated"

- my read on skitter: are we comfortable betting the game on town-skitter? i didn't play with her in 711 (i honestly didn't read most of her posts because walls) so all i have is cold meta

Cold meta

Neapolitan NEEDS to check skitter30 if there is one

we can take silence followed by a neapolitan flip to be immediate proof that skitter is town

Why asking an hypothetical PR to check skitter if she's prob!town from his perspective?

current scumteams I'm willing to consider:
skitter30/Scioness
skitter30/Drixx
skitter30/ofhrz
Drixx/ruru
Drixx/pintu
Drixx/Scioness
Scioness/NSG
Scioness/ofhrz
Scioness/pintu
NSG/ofhrz
NSG/pintu
ofhrz/pintu
ofhrz/ruru (bussing still possible)

He doesn't consider Oxy in any scumteams because he's conf!town from his perspective, while there are three options he would consider with skitter in it. Only flaw in this argument is that he considered NSG in three scumteams too and his read on NSG was indeed a townread, so this post is not that good to consider.

I don't think Dino's case on skitter looks like he was townreading her at all...

[Oxy]

THAT SAID i think she's towntold in this game in numerous ways that i'd have serious trouble seeing out of her scumgames without, for example, being coached by RC (a thing that happened once in what seems to be her best scumgame lol)

don't see myself scumreading her tomorrow or the day after except on rock solid PoE if she continues playing like this

so beyond "it's mechanically awful to lynch her later on if not today"

i literally don't see myself being willing to lynch her after today if i'm not even willing to make the mechanically correct call

that's why i'm asking you to evaluate that read

I'm not saying that his read should be considered scripture or anything, but he was pretty obviously town reading skitter.

[Oxy]

I think what you're seeing in the pairings is the difference between confirmed town and strong town read

[pinturicchio]

THAT SAID i think she's towntold in this game in numerous ways that i'd have serious trouble seeing out of her scumgames without, for example, being coached by RC (a thing that happened once in what seems to be her best scumgame lol)

"serious trouble seeing out of her OUTDATED scumgames"

don't see myself scumreading her tomorrow or the day after except on rock solid PoE if she continues playing like this

so beyond "it's mechanically awful to lynch her later on if not today"

i literally don't see myself being willing to lynch her after today if i'm not even willing to make the mechanically correct call

that's why i'm asking you to evaluate that read

I'm not saying that his read should be considered scripture or anything, but he was pretty obviously town reading skitter.

Bolded my answer. But yeah more like not thinking that Dino was townreading her or not, I'm stating that his supposed townread on her would be the worse townread he has in this game

[pinturicchio]

pin or Oxy, if you guys have time, do you mind talking about skitter and scioness? This is where I'm at by PoE

I'm at PoE there too, but with ruru included. It's 2 in the morning here and I should be sleeping like at least 2 hours ago lol

[Oxy]

@pin That's possible. Here's how I see his town reads:

Oxy - He believed I was confirmed town
NSG - I believe he was somewhere around 90% on this based on his posts and his willingness to sheep her read on you.
Ruru - I think ruru was probably his next strongest read by the end of the day. I can find you posts if you would like. He never expanded on why he felt strongly about town!ruru.
Pinturicchio - His town read on you was a sheeping of NSG's read. It's strength is therefore dependent both on NSG's ability to read you, and her confidence in her own read on you.
Skitter - He town read skitter, but believed that her slot should be resolved mechanically, if possible.

So yeah, either you or skitter is his least strong town reads. Sajj was his biggest scum read, and Ofrhz seems to be null/scum read by poe

[ofrhz]

No worries I’m tired too. I’ll have time tomorrow to reread some posts and hopefully others will have chimed in by then.

[skitter30]

To start off I'm going to VOTE: ruru and see where this goes since I townread her the least.

I'm going to try to not-wall-post as I catch up and just like respond to interesting posts individually since I know that the walls are hard to read. Let's see how long I manage to do that; sorry for spam-posting in advance.

[skitter30]

What makes you think that?

I think odds are at least one scum was on the wagon.

Why did you want to lynch me yesterday, and why do you want to lynch me now?

Bolded is kinda shallow. Like it's a generic observation that kinda shades the whole wagon without actually doing anything to find the scum that you think might be on the wagon.

[skitter30]

Also why did NSG leave her vote on Oxy?

SS's hammer on her nullread stands out to me

but that's just one of the things I found weird about her recent play.

Yeah OK post-by-post is silly; maybe page-by-page instead or something.

I don't find that to be a reason inherently to scumread someone at all given the fact that it was like hours before deadline.

------

1152

62 actually reads kinda scummy to me since it seems like she's too hesitant with her vote; being nervous to leave her vote on a scumread overnight a day into a two-week-phase is kinda weird to me.

236 - she still hasn't explained where she was going with that question - honestly it kinda looks like busy work to me. The survey has still not been demonstrated to have any direct bearing to the game or to scumhunting. It looks like she's trying to engage with people, but it isn't over anything actually game-advancing and/or meaningful.

434 - and why does town!ruru make that post either. It's NAI to me. All the posts I haven't directly mentioned are NAI to me.

727 - No, it isn't? She's arguing that I'm scummy cuz I was trying to get one of oxy/scioness lynched during their 1v1, which never happened (if you'd like to argue otherwise show me where it happened), and we explicitly talked about that at the time.

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1157 - ruru, why aren't you talking about my vote on drixx? Why are you focusing on scioness's?

----

I guess aside from Mathdino's read on NSG, I don't really see anything that indicates NSG is town.

Agreed, but he really does have that good of a track-record of reading her I think.

[skitter30]

(Also I was trying to do other things with my vote. There's no point in trying to lynch the person I find scummiest when we have like 3 AFKs.)

Um, the point of the game is to lynch the person you find scummiest, not the 3 afks?

Like the deadline was rapidly approaching. There was a wagon on me. You've been scumreading me for like a week and half. I basically told people to vote me. And you're not voting me cuz you want to vote an afk just before deadline when there's a wagon on like your biggest scumread.

I don't get it.

----

He's a pretty strong player. I'm guessing he got nk'd cuz he was rapidly PoE'ing the game? I don't find him to be an odd target tbh; I was actually half-expecting him to be the nk.

--

Now, about Dino: I'm glad and pissed at the same time that he died and flipped VT.

Snipped for brevity.

Math wasn't conf-town. He's a strong player but like his reads aren't absolute? You shouldn't just sheep him just cuz he's dead and you know he's town; you should think about them critically and decide whether or not they make sense.

About ruru: I fucked up that part, I meant to say that if skitter flipped scum, ruru would be obv!scum and if skitter flipped town, ruru could still be scum and she would have the chance to fakeclaim. ruru being the obvious partner of skitter is because PoE and because her vote on her saying "fuck it if I'm wrong I'm wrong" which seemed so awkward to me.

Why would she frame her vote like that for voting partner!me? And, like, why wouldn't scum!me and scum!her talk about it in scumchat to make sure it wasn't awkward? Like why wouldn't we talk about how to write a bussing post to make sure she got maximum bussing points out of it?

---

@pin, 1206 - math's basically saying that he's using cold-meta to try to read me, but that based on my onsite scum games, I'm out of my scumrange. However, those are out of date (I last rolled scum in like August or something), so he can't be completely sure, so while he townreads me on meta, he thinks it's a good idea to back-up that read mechanically.

[Assemblerotws]

Vote Count 2.02

Not Voting [6]:

pinturicchio, Oxy, northsidegal, ruru, Scioness Sajj, ofrhz

ruru [1]:

skitter30

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2018-04-21 13:00:00) on

April 21, 2018

.

[Scioness Sajj]

I'm back for a while.

drixx > skitter but lynch > no lynch

we can lynch skitter, we don't know if we will be able to lynch anybody else because of claims

Drixx was here around this time yesterday but that's about it

Have you both read the thread? We have 12 hours and only one VT claim, that makes lynching anybody but skitter nearly impossible.

Yeah, sure I'd prefer to lynch ruru today and see skitter go to the end game, but that's not really a thing right now.

lynch > no lynch
vt lynch > no claim lynch

p.edit if I have to vote skitter I will, I hope drixx will get back and claim vt though

We have 12 hours left, we don't know if enough people will be there for any new wagon nor is it actually safe to wagon anybody in case they won't be here to claim and we hit pr.

So we lynch skitter or drixx or we don't lynch at all

[Scioness Sajj]

from my POV, I'm town, Math is town, skitter and Oxy are very likely town, so Scioness is the only one that could be scum. I'm kind of on the fence about Scioness, she was okay up until her "We must lynch skitter today" thought process which made no sense.

I would think town!SS would have preferred a no-lynch in general. She's saying Oxy and I are quite scummy and there's 834. So, if the first Drixx wagon was comprised of scum!Oxy and/or scum!ruru then why would she call Drixx a low info flip in 935? And then hammer him anyway despite not scumreading him. It doesn't add up to me.

Why would you even think that when I was first person to question Mathdino's no lynch idea? The rest of your arguement is ignoring that I couldn't wagon you alone and the time issue we had with the lynch that was talked about.

I didn't say I wasn't scumreading you anymore when I unvoted??? I just didn't think anyone else was paying attention to you, and there wasn't that much time left in the day. The votecount was scattered, I didn't think I was going to convince anyone to vote for you (which is why I was later so frustrated with scioness for waiting so long to vote for you, like wtf. I'm not sure if this is AI). if you are scum, Drixx and NSG were both viable scum partners (at the time).

You are impling here that you wanted people to scumread ruru with you but you never made a case on her or tried to convince people to vote ruru.
Also - why were you upset that my case on ruru went in so late when you have already said you stopped scumleaning on her? 778 you have unvoted ruru for a reason stated below skitter's quote or no reason given at all. 895 you said you are townleaning her.

She never answered 850 (or 1004) and I feel like it's pretty relevant to the game state considering she was leaving her vote on me and a last minute wagon even formed on me afterward

Not relevant to do game state, relevant to you. I left my vote there because I find you scummy, that's what I'm supposed to do when I think I have found scum, vote them.

I feel like you even engaging on my case is proof of you being a scum. You weren’t interested in finding out why ofrhz voted you, you barely bothered with him. But when I made a case on you you felt a need to defend yourself even though you thought the case was weak and made by confused town/scum. And now you are pushing the ‘I'm the victim narrative’.

The wagon on you formed because of your vote on skitter not my case.

[Scioness Sajj]

Gonna try looking from another angle. I was thinking that Math being targeted night 1 was odd. Like I had a feeling he wasn’t a PR based on how he took control of the game from the outset, and the only other reason to lynch him otherwise is his ability to game solve.

Who do you think should have been a nk then?

[Scioness Sajj]

NSG - I need you to tell me how strongly you believe in that towntell from Pintu. Also what do you think of skitter now?

Pintu - when you have a moment could you link me your scumgames/towngames? If it is inconvenient I will just look for them on my own.

[Oxy]

Good morning, Sajj. It sounds to me like you're still scum reading ruru. Is that right? Who do you think her possible partners are?

[Scioness Sajj]

Yes I am. I will tell you who I think can't be in team with ruru that will be faster - NSG and Pintu.

[Oxy]

so ofrhz and skitter are her potential partners from your pov? or are you including me as well?