Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Brian Skies]

I'm also not really sure I could call Hop getting onto the Maria

clever

as either alignment, since a quick search of Maria in his iso only brings up 'powerful algorithm' and 'good wagon composition'.

So?

[the worst]

I'm fundamentally dissatisfied with a grey lynch. I think I still stand by this.

Why so?

[Hopkirk]

Idk if you remember, but discussion that was about wagon composition (scummy people on it).

I remember. I just wanted to add this on to my previous response when you asked me 'why do you keep pushing me for my

light townread

?'.

The resistance thing is either a scumslip, or easily explained at a ratio of maybe 90:10. In other news, it's two days to deadline and I've said i probably won't be online tomorrow. Given this, what would you expect me to do in this scenario? Not vote anybody, stay on a wagon that I don't like as much? This is a legitimate question.

I'm pretty sure srceen's comment was mostly about Pan's AtE. I don't think there's any correlation between that and

this

game or how it's a scumslip for

this

game.

So I'm very curious as to what your point here is.

You're claiming here the same thing Grey did, that I've just gone onto his wagon. I direct your attention to where I responded to Grey quoting that he's been one of my top two scumreads for a long time. I very much want to hear how you'll explain this position if it isn't a mistake.
The fact that you're able to miss that makes me very concerned about you now :/

Congratulations! You're voting someone you've already stated a scumread on.

What does this have to do with anything I just said?

-ever played resistance irl? There's a point. It's actually mechanically impossible to play without looking at your role pm due to part of how the game works.
-you just said that I was trying to justify it today, despite holding the read for almost a week. Do you seriously see no issue with Grey claiming I've only just jumped on him?

[Brigand Vvulf]

I'm fundamentally dissatisfied with a grey lynch. I think I still stand by this.

Why so?

cuz I townread him and I kinda predicted that this was gonna happen?

[the worst]

I kinda forgot your towncase happened. sorry.

I'm still just not convinced those are traits scum can't easily immitate. But I won't try and force you.

[Brian Skies]

-ever played resistance irl? There's a point. It's actually mechanically impossible to play without looking at your role pm due to part of how the game works.

I've never played Resistance, no.

Are you calling him a liar? There's currently a wagon on him and your vote isn't on it.

Otherwise, it's not directly related to this game, so what's your point?

-you just said that I was trying to justify it today, despite holding the read for almost a week. Do you seriously see no issue with Grey claiming I've only just jumped on him?

My issue isn't with you just voting Grey.

My issue is your interaction with srceen here and then going 'oh hey, let's forget about this potential scumtell and just push to end the day.' As well as potential correlations you may be trying to draw up between srceen and Grey here.

[Panopticon]

UNVOTE: GreyICE

let me finish reading

[Panopticon]

Goodnight self.

Shad, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but

shut the fuck up

. You made 20 posts in the past day, and the content of them could easily fill 2 small posts instead.
~tn

found the reason

If only it worked even half as well on Quick, we might be able to get places.

Pretty sure that was Toranaga calling people potatoes, not Panopticon.

pretty sure varsoon volunteered to assume the responsibility somewhere

I did, as a joke, at Gorkington, while calling him a potato of course.

basically this is noteworthy https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10126662
then varsoon told it to go away and it did

Varsoon didn't even get to interact with that guy.

Man, I guess the reality is that I'm the shitter.
Sorry, guys.

VOTE: GreyICE

Though TN is townreading it.

-obserVed

Nah if anyone here is letting this slot down it's me.

Eat shit, then.

It's clear from Hopkirk's interactions (or lack thereof with us) that his read on us is conjured from fucking thin air and randomly picked from a PoE pool because we're the lowest hanging lynch of the day.

-obserVed

I guess I'm better than I thought at identifying low hanging fruit since nobody else was pushing you when I started.

Interaction is a two way street. You were voting me first backed by saying two other people scumread me. When I voted you, despite your vote being unexplained, you immediately asked for reasons (the way you hadn't provided it). I said how I disliked your votecount and a specific post around when I voted you. You didn't try to interact with me on the scumread at any point. You've only become concerned with interacting with me now that my vote's been joined by others.

Because your solo yolo vote wasn't relevant to the game at all, especially when the Maria wagon was happening.

I kinda hope Pan flips town so I can laugh at you guys for letting Grey slip by. I guess if Pan flips scum then you guys get to do the opposite.

Any reason's for them being unlikely partners?

Pan's acting angry doesn't help town.

Would be nice if you'd talk to me and not at me like you have been all game. I got enough of that shit from my father than you very much.

Nah, he's not scum with Hopkirk. And Hopkirk is scum.

Nice chainsaw for Hopkirk by the way.

Something to make note of for later.

Unvoting Pan because the meta from people I trust here is enough for reasonable doubt.

And you moved from townleaning me, to hard scumreading me, to unvoting me, all while literally only interacting with me, like, once, and not having even received a response from it.
Fake. As. Fuck.

Spoiler: pocket notes

Hopkirk doesn't care who he lynches

You can see two trends from Hopkirk's early game - he doesn't care who gets lynched, and he gets very angry if someone scumreads him. For instance, here's some of his reads:

Are there any people here I shouldn't townread: Panoptican, Brigand, Brian, Centipede, Creature, Cheeky

@Ausuka: how do you feel about large games?

I feel at least a bit good about: Toranaga, MariaR, Beeboy, Ausuka, Cheeky, Quick, Brian, Nero, Brigand (a bit), Screen (a bit)

Zone of people I need to interact with: The Worst, Tchill, Panoptican UNVOTE: panoptican, Bins, Spiffeh

Hive of potential scum and villany: Thor665, Gorkington, GreyIce, Centipede

I mean note that it's practically reversed from his initial list, with no real thought. In point of fact Centipede veers between the scum pile and hard town, not based on any interactions Hopkirk has with him, but just with how strong the lynch wagon was blowing. Here's centipede's wagon:

Centipede Syndrome(6)

~ CheekyTeeky(51), Creature(71), Gorkington(41), Quick(155), Tchill13(2), Hopkirk(51)

You can clearly see him hopping on here. Yet later he was convinced to vote for Maria late based on a town read on Centipede? Lets see just how true that is:

MariaR(6) ~ Centipede Syndrome(161), CheekyTeeky(107), Creature(152), Tchill13(70), Brian Skies(94), Gorkington(151)

MariaR(7) ~ Centipede Syndrome(180), Brian Skies(101), Gorkington(190), Spiffeh(112), Creature(238), Brigand Vvulf(69), Tchill13(92)

MariaR(9) ~ Centipede Syndrome(210), Brian Skies(104), Gorkington(180), Spiffeh(100), Brigand Vvulf(73), Tchill13(90), CheekyTeeky(127), Quick(315), Hopkirk(144)

Now we finally see a Hopkirk on, late enough to hurt. And his interaction? Try to support Maria's claim and focus on it. On the other hand, we're quite happy to see him around here:

Panopticon (4)- Spiffeh, Brigand Vvulf, CheekyTeeky, Hopkirk

Panopticon is falling apart so he hops on my wagon, with room to audible onto Screenplay.

This guy is transparently scum, and he's scum with Maria

~tn

[Randomnamechange]

i think i'm fairly good at reading maria. i think i lean slightly to over scumreading them iirc.
elli is a v good player and i def believe he could be doing this as scum. if you gave me their read without context, i would probs put 60-70% odds on maria flipping scum.

You know, that's like A LOT higher than anyone else on this playerlist atm yeah.
I wonder where you should vote.

i don5 like to vote until fully caught up when replacing in (which should be tomorrow if there arent a fuck ton of posts tonight)

Yeah to play in this game you really have to get ready to sink down to the depths of despair.

I'd ask why there's like 200 posts since I last opened this fucking disaster area, but I can't be arsed to care.

depths of despair.

Best post in thread. @greyice i promuse i will srart doing stuff wednesday at the latest

[Panopticon]

VOTE: Hopkirk

I will be sure to text Varsoon 9001 times to make sure he doesn't move this vote.

[Hopkirk]

-ever played resistance irl? There's a point. It's actually mechanically impossible to play without looking at your role pm due to part of how the game works.

I've never played Resistance, no.

Are you calling him a liar? There's currently a wagon on him and your vote isn't on it.

Otherwise, it's not directly related to this game, so what's your point?

-you just said that I was trying to justify it today, despite holding the read for almost a week. Do you seriously see no issue with Grey claiming I've only just jumped on him?

My issue isn't with you just voting Grey.

My issue is your interaction with srceen here and then going 'oh hey, let's forget about this potential scumtell and just push to end the day.' As well as potential correlations you may be trying to draw up between srceen and Grey here.

It's a scumslip or there's a reasonable explination.
It's fine to end the day before I hear since I expect GI to flip scum, and I expect me/screen to not be killed by scum.

[Panopticon]

I was waiting for varsoon to ok this post but he's been afk since i asked last night and hasn't been answering the phone so here it is:

Here, Quick makes a joke response to Nero's joke question:

Whats all happening in your scum PT, Quick?

There's no day talk.... LOL.

The "LOL" makes it pretty obvious that it's a joke. After votes from GreyICE and Nero Cain, your slot votes for Quick as well, later implying that it was for this slip:

VOTE: Quick

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

>admits that it's a scumslip
>still doesn't want to lynch scum
>

This results in this votecount, where Maria and Quick are within one vote of each other.

In the second quote from above where it becomes apparent that the reason for the Quick vote was because of a slip, he also shades Tchill, another very viable Maria counter wagon at the time. This avoidance of the Maria wagon is all while Pan apparently had what's basically a scum read on Maria:

Youre scum.

Maria or ellis hydra are scum

. Gork is back to neutral, quick is still an annoyance, grey is still town, bins is still town, busboy is probably town but needs to post soon.

Pan literally votes for someone who is "an annoyance" over someone that is 50/50 scum based on the "slip" that obviously wasn't a slip from above. After this post, there is no read or talk about Maria from this slot ever again. They took the easiest excuse they could find to not vote for Maria, and vote/shade all her potential counter wagons.

That's actually NAI for me. Would do as any alignment. Will absolutely be WotC'ing Quick in the future.

This isn't to mention Gork's case on Pan from earlier in the day that basically boils down to:

tn is just talking at people in this game.
hes not trying to sort people.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes doing.

theres nothing genuine about doubtcasting someone because theyre scumreading something your hydra partner did because you didnt post it.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes pushed on tchill.
and theres especially nothing genuine about him trying to walk back his read there as not being strong when hes indicated anything but the contrary.

But everyone in this game doesn't even read it so I'm sure no one knows about that!

I can sort more people later, when I'm not so damn frustrated and angry at the game. I've got a few reads actually sorted out now and quite frankly that's going to have to be enough for day 1.

I felt like his push on you was too opportunistic given the timing of everything. It's annoying me that I keep flip flopping on him so I would appreciate some help clearing his slot si vous plait.

What about the timing was opportunistic? Maria had just flipped leaving Tchill as the leading wagon, and since Panopticon was my second lynch choice after Maria and looked even worse with her flip, I urged people to vote there instead.

If you really want to sort me why don't you ask me questions or do something to make that happen? I think I've provided enough content to make you have an opinion one way or the other so idk how a basically naked vote on me is going to accomplish what you're claiming you want done.

CheekyTeeky I would like a response to this.

You don't get to be completely useless by parking and me without explaining why/trying to engage with me about your suspicions that you apparently have.

But basically everyone on my wagon except for you is allowed to do so, hypocrite. At least you're actually engaging me now.

Like holy shit stop pressuring me to justify fucking plays I didn't make
This is what white people must feel like for being held accountable for all the horrible shit they've done hundreds of years ago.

-obserVed

not gonna lie that was pretty uncalled for, varsoon :<

Varsoon, you know how hydras work?!?!?!?!

You know that if one head is scum then the other one is too because they share the same role PM?!?!?!?

I've explained why I feel the actions your other head took are way more likely to come from scum than town. Thus, I feel he is scum, and since you're a package deal, you are also scum.

I don't need for you to justify play that wasn't yours, I'm explaining to others why your slot is the best lynch for today.

The joke here is that I'm almost always scumread since I used to end up rolling scum at last 50% of the time. I'd actually like to play a fucking town game and do town things without shitters like Quick dumping their toxic waste in the thread.

Observed did you ever consider the possibility that wolves might see you as an easy target for a mislynch and we are not in fact all dumb villagers?

They can have fun with that. Relatively sure our wagon is half scum-driven.

Perhaps you should ask your other head to express that case because what I read did not really reflect the quotes you pulled to validate it.

Did you literally ignore reality?
3092, 3093, 3094, 3096, 3097.
I fucking dare you to tell me that my vote doesn't reflect my read.
Hopkirk has done literally nothing in regards to us other than coast on Spiffeh's bad plays in order to earn towncred from being on our wagon.
"I'm kind of townleaning you but I need to sort you" to "You're my number one scum read, die in a fire" with LITERALLY NO PROGRESSION OF ANY KIND TO DEVELOP THIS READ ORGANICALLY. Also, 3157.

Gork did you read my case-thing from last page? Tn’s vote progression and completely ignoring Maria makes no sense given his stated “read” on her

I'll put it in small, simple words for you.

I. Didn't. Trust. The. Claim. Until. It. Literally. Flipped. Scum.

Pan literally votes for someone who is "an annoyance" over someone that is 50/50 scum based on the "slip" that obviously wasn't a slip from above. After this post, there is no read or talk about Maria from this slot ever again. They took the easiest excuse they could find to not vote for Maria, and vote/shade all her potential counter wagons.

give me a little time to dive some varsoon scumgames to see if i can find him doing something like this at any point.
theres just a big part of me thats worried that tn and varsoon are tripping over themselves really hard as town here.

I don't know how that's going to be helpful, considering that this play came from me, not varsoon. And give me a real reason I was supposed to unconditionally believe in a "not a guilty, but like a guilty guilty, you know, almost the same thing".

im gonna feel dumb as fuck if im letting scumthem off the hook here, but is tn getting frazzled by being pushed by brian and not wanting to lynch maria being more about annoyance with the elli program thing a possible explanation?

I mean he acknowledges that one of Maria or Centipede is scum so it doesn't look like he's completely dismissing it?

I mean, I acknowledged it too, but didn't have a good read on either player. My game at this point had been a goddamn disaster so I played safe and voted a counter wagon.

p-edit: i more mean that like, does it not seem possible that he votes other things in spite of knowing that maria is maybe more likely scum out of unstated spite?

More like, I'd rather get annoyances lynched out of spite, absent proof that someone alive is scum. I've been scumread for it before and will again, I'm sure, not that I care because leaving gutter trash like Quick alive makes the game basically unplayable for me.

Ok I normally would be fine with that but we have like 2 days left til deadline (maybe a little more than that idr) so it would be best of those reasons would come sooner rather than later

GreyICE is probably my second choice but Pan is really just the perfect storm of scumminess and I still don't think I'll be convinced enough by anything else to change my vote

I think you're really reaching here.

[Mulch]

Votecount 1.54- MANUAL

GreyICE (8)- Nero Cain, Creature, Gorkington, Centipede Syndrome, Spiffeh, Chickadee, Hopkirk, The Worst

Srceenplay(4)- Thor665, Brian Skies, CheekyTeeky, Bins
Panopticon (2)-Ausuka, Screenplay
Hopkirk (2)- GreyICE, Panopticon
Tchill13(1)- Beeboy
Bins (1)- Randomidget
Not Voting (4): Town Gunner, Mafia Gunner, Tchill13, Brigant Vvulf
With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-04-25 12:53:00)

[Thor665]

@Grey
@Brian

I'm hardly enamored by Hopkirk's play - but you're telling me that how he got on the MariaR wagon isn't at least a clever enough of a buss to make him not a good Day 1 lynch?

I don't understand the question. Please rephrase.

It's frustrating because Grey groked it fine, and I'm not sure how to phrase it easier. Okay, try this one;

I think Hopkirk's vote on MariaR looks enough like "not a bus" to qualify for not lynching him today - why do you disagree, and if you don't disagree, do something else"

Make sense?

@Grey
@Brian

I'm hardly enamored by Hopkirk's play - but you're telling me that how he got on the MariaR wagon isn't at least a clever enough of a buss to make him not a good Day 1 lynch?

As what, the ninth vote?

Smurf no.

The number has very little to do with it as I think you'll agree with me that town also voted late on that wagon.
What about his vote looks like strong bus indication exactly?

[Brian Skies]

I think Hopkirk's vote on MariaR looks enough like "not a bus" to qualify for not lynching him today - why do you disagree, and if you don't disagree, do something else"

I'm voting srceen and advocating srceen's lynch?

Also curious why you think that Hop's vote looks like 'not a bus' when he never joined it until the second time it came around and left it once she claimed.

[Creature]

Wait, I'm coming.

[Creature]

Ugh, can't find the script.

[Bins]

UNVOTE:

holy shit guys, my town (toronto) just had a van going berserk on pedestrians on the sidewalk. major roads closed, i dont know when ill be able to get home, or how. so im here to play some mafia guys

: ( hope everything is ok
cant believe something like that happened 4 hours from me

[Tchill13]

VOTE: greyice

ready to lynch scum

[Bins]

HMMMMM

maybe tchill is still scum

dk

[Bins]

also hop I told you to iso maria (and I guess me at the same time)
I cant convince you that our interactions are TvS and not SvS but I think its pretty clear

[Panopticon]

VOTE: greyice

ready to lynch town

ftfy

[Panopticon]

also hop I told you to iso maria (and I guess me at the same time)
I cant convince you that our interactions are TvS and not SvS but I think its pretty clear

BAE

you got this

[GreyICE]

@Thor: Hopkirk was the 9th vote on the wagon, and then proceeded to ask lots of questions about the role. If the town was buying the claim he was in the perfect position to say "lets wait a day or two and see what results come up". If the town didn't, he could claim that he was on the wagon. Frankly, this is more scum than town, and you're writing bollocks. I would like you to explain what's so town about the vote, because where I'm sitting it looks like a classic late vote for town credit. Speaking of, I would honestly say I expected a lot more from you based on past play. There's a joke about "when thor's play is bad, thor isn't town" and... it's not very funny.

For tomorrow, Tchill has shown his true colors. Vote him he shows up and posts. No attention, he lurks. He claims he's bad at town, but he's also bad at scum, and this is bad scum.

Nero Cain is one who is hard to read. Honestly, digression time. When he joined the site he was like 14. In that time I've seen many players grow from bad to good, or from bad to okay, or from bad to interesting. Inbetween being a teenager, and being an adult, Nero Cain is still the same shitter he was 9 years ago. It's like he never grew up, never learned anything, and never improved. He's one of the most anti-town forces I've ever seen. I

think

he's scum, but I'd like to emphasize he's hard to read just because he always plays like this. He claims to be angling for the achievement "Lead a lynch on groupscum". Whether or not it's true, it's telling in nine years he's never once accomplished that (and he won't in this game either, no matter what his alignment is). So... feel free to kill him, it's pro-town.

Now, we have time for a Hopkirk wagon, and we could end the day with a scum lynch. Or we could end the day with a town lynch. But what's toxic here is the people lurking until "they had no other choice". Some of those are most certainly scum. The Worst is a good choice for lurking scum, but he might be lurking town. Chickadee slot is a crapper - quick wasn't great, but his replace out felt town. He realized no one was listening to him, and quit in frustration. So town. Unfortunately Chickadee is just dumb, but don't let stupidity get in the way of a town read on that slot.

Don't let Spiffeh slide with as little as he's been contributing.

[GreyICE]

Now, moment of truth. I say there's time for a scum lynch, so lets take a stand.