Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[Farkran]

Yes, you have thrown shade my way, saying Im not engaging (A) but Buddying (B). A and B are inconsistent. Either I am engaging and buddying/pocketing (both are used interchangeably here, though pocketing is more usually assoicated with a scum implication); or I am not engaging. You cant do both at the same time.

If politeness is a scumtell, you need help. Politeness is just decency/playstyle. Playstyle -/ alignment. I can link all the aggressive scumms (Robbnva tends to be a good example here) and the polite ones (youre playing with several I have experienced).

At no point in all of this shade have you quoted a post of mine and explained why it comes from scum more often than town. Nor have you explained why a 2 person scum team would be more likely to openly buddy and joint vote rather than largely ignore each other -- this from someone who is hunting primarily on pre-flip associations, which are crap. And you ignore my prime thrust, that you never asked any questions of me or otherwise tried to flesh out your read of me, or of anyone else, until now.

Politeness isn't a scumtell per se. Measured politeness, i.e. avoiding the primary argument or pocketing with someone BUT faking activity by providing out of game help is a huge scumtell to me, speaking from experience. Townies tend to get VERY emotional when someone is playing on their nerves, also speaking from experience (see emps bringing it on a whole higher level here).

[skitter30]

intent

teacher, how are you feeling about menalque right about now?

[Farkran]

menalque: still very trollish, offers decent analysis from time to time. Reasoning behind analysis is appropriate, so i'm at a loss here. Looks strongly town PR to me, although i find it hard to believe at this point.

again, whatever your alignment is, it's a p bad idea to keep repeating this in thread

if farkran is scum i think it almost has to be with another newbie

Sorry for not playing by the manual - i already explained my reasons though.

[skitter30]

fark thats not whats reachy means... reachy means taking a NAI or even town posts and calling them scum. or just reaching for impossible scumteams.

i'm starting to kinda get the vibe that his previous forum is just ... very different from this one, and that a lot of what he's getting scumread for is different playstyle and expectation for how this game should go

a lot of it is also i kinda feel like if he were scum with like anyone in this game other than maybe ... creeper i think he'd be told to tone down some stuff (like announcing town prs in thread) and that doens't seem to be happening, he's just kinda digging himself into a bigger and bigger hole of his own making

[skitter30]

menalque: still very trollish, offers decent analysis from time to time. Reasoning behind analysis is appropriate, so i'm at a loss here. Looks strongly town PR to me, although i find it hard to believe at this point.

again, whatever your alignment is, it's a p bad idea to keep repeating this in thread

if farkran is scum i think it almost has to be with another newbie

Sorry for not playing by the manual - i already explained my reasons though.

i understand, i'm telling you that on this forum you'll be scumread for doing this, and might get lynched over it

it's considered to be a very very big no no

[Sushi Martyr]

Either VT taking it on a personal level (happens more often than it should)

is it bad that i think asides like these are kinda townie ?

I don't think so. The first paragraph of 392, where he addresses the possibility of emps being townie again, also gave me town vibes-- not quite the same thing, but might be worth mentioning.

[teacher]

intent

teacher, how are you feeling about menalque right about now?

He's where I would go next. The naked intent doesnt do much for me. I havent felt him in the way I would expect to, scum or town.

PEDIT: Yea, but two SEs have both told him its antitown to do. The doubledown on it strikes me as almost playing a TSTBS try.

[emps]

honestly skitter have you seen how many tmies ive asked them to claim and then they just dont?

[skitter30]

3. skitter (disappeared completely, turns my townread on her down a fair bit)

again, can you stop saying things like i'm 'hiding' or 'disappeared completely', when i'm away for a few hours on the weekend or during normal work hours

you're acting like i'm maliciously avoidign this game when i'm ... busy irl

+ this is the sort of game i need a pc for and i wans't able to get on one until like half an hour ago or whenever it was

[teacher]

i kinda feel like if he were scum with like anyone in this game other than maybe ... creeper i think he'd be told to tone down some stuff (like announcing town prs in thread) and that doens't seem to be happening, he's just kinda digging himself into a bigger and bigger hole of his own making

Eh, I see alot of this reasoning and its kinda contradicted by life. In almost all of my completed games, the scum PT is a wasteland. And I think Fark's personality (regardless of alignment) is not to take advice and play their own style.

[emps]

imo too scummy to be scum is a bs arguement

[emps]

like, theres no jester here...

[emps]

i dont know how to feel abt skitter backing out

[Sushi Martyr]

i dont know how to feel abt skitter backing out

Backing out of what?

[skitter30]

Either VT taking it on a personal level (happens more often than it should)

is it bad that i think asides like these are kinda townie ?

I don't think so. The first paragraph of 392, where he addresses the possibility of emps being townie again, also gave me town vibes-- not quite the same thing, but might be worth mentioning.

yeah i'm kinda gettting the same vibes there too

intent

teacher, how are you feeling about menalque right about now?

He's where I would go next. The naked intent doesnt do much for me. I havent felt him in the way I would expect to, scum or town.

PEDIT: Yea, but two SEs have both told him its antitown to do. The doubledown on it strikes me as almost playing a TSTBS try.

i kinda want to vote menalque

i'm kinda feeling like he's very stuck on 'this is how i play mafia, it is the correct way to play, i don't care how it's played here or how it makes me perceived, this is what i beleive so i'm just going to shout it to the world, no matter what everyone else thinks about it'

and i think scum kinda change it up when they get this much flak

like idk how often do you see scum deliberately playing up a tstbs playstyle? in a newbie?

honestly skitter have you seen how many tmies ive asked them to claim and then they just dont?

yeah in pedits

idk why he's not claiming but idk why he doesn't as scum either

[teacher]

Its D2 of a 10 day phase. And I get her vibes. That's the debate I had, and I decided to come down on the lynch side of it but was narrow. I think I kinda like the cold feet, but feel like there should have been a claim.
UNVOTE: Fark
VOTE: Menalque

[skitter30]

That's the problem. I'm having trouble looking deep into things the same way you guys do. I probably just need to try harder, but maybe it's not my thing.

As for Farkran not claiming, I don't really read that either way. I don't really see it as a valid play from either town or scum. I think he has a reason for it, but I have no idea what that could be.

how does a chat mafia game play out

[Farkran]

menalque: still very trollish, offers decent analysis from time to time. Reasoning behind analysis is appropriate, so i'm at a loss here. Looks strongly town PR to me, although i find it hard to believe at this point.

again, whatever your alignment is, it's a p bad idea to keep repeating this in thread

if farkran is scum i think it almost has to be with another newbie

Sorry for not playing by the manual - i already explained my reasons though.

i understand, i'm telling you that on this forum you'll be scumread for doing this, and might get lynched over it

it's considered to be a very very big no no

Eh, then i can only say you should really be more open minded about it. It's not like i'm not listening to you, i just strongly believe i am correct in doing what i am doing right now, and i feel like following the manual is wrong about every time, even if i get lynched for it. Perhaps, next game i will learn from you and you will learn from me.

[teacher]

menalque: still very trollish, offers decent analysis from time to time. Reasoning behind analysis is appropriate, so i'm at a loss here. Looks strongly town PR to me, although i find it hard to believe at this point.

again, whatever your alignment is, it's a p bad idea to keep repeating this in thread

if farkran is scum i think it almost has to be with another newbie

Sorry for not playing by the manual - i already explained my reasons though.

i understand, i'm telling you that on this forum you'll be scumread for doing this, and might get lynched over it

it's considered to be a very very big no no

Eh, then i can only say you should really be more open minded about it. It's not like i'm not listening to you, i just strongly believe i am correct in doing what i am doing right now, and i feel like following the manual is wrong about every time, even if i get lynched for it. Perhaps, next game i will learn from you and you will learn from me.

Why does it benefit town to openly PR speculate?

[skitter30]

Mechanically, games are mostly the same. It's just the fact that here, we have so much more time to discuss, analyze posts, etc. Deadlines are measured in days instead of minutes. I've been assuming that makes a massive difference in play, but thinking about it, I guess it's not so different after all. I also realize now that the way I brought up my past was a bit misleading - I have a lot of experience, but that doesn't make me any better at the game. There are people from PS (that's my homeworld) who analyze things just as well as people here. Maybe the problem is I've been comparing everyone on this site to myself rather than other players from PS.

i mean ... does analysis happen in your chat mafia games? like i'm confused why having more time is hindering your ability to analyze here ... ? if anything i think it'd be easier since you aren't rushed?

[skitter30]

ok, my overall vibe of farkran is that he's playing badly (measured against a metric of usual MS site meta), but given his background, i'm not sure he's playing scummy

VOTE: menalque

[Farkran]

Why does it benefit town to openly PR speculate?

I explained myself a few posts ago - in this setup, mafia does not need such information, therefore hiding it is only detrimental to the town in my eyes. If you need an actual quote, please ask me again and give me a few minutes since i'm on mobile.

Also on the menalque situation, i'm following it very closely. Sushi, what's your standing on menalque?

[teacher]

Why does it benefit town to openly PR speculate?

I explained myself a few posts ago - in this setup, mafia does not need such information, therefore hiding it is only detrimental to the town in my eyes. If you need an actual quote, please ask me again and give me a few minutes since i'm on mobile.

Youre right, you did say that.

Why does Mafia not need that information, though? Surely a roleblocker would like their action to be successful? Surely goons would love to kill a cop?

Try it another way. How does town benefit from open PR speculation?

[Sushi Martyr]

Why does it benefit town to openly PR speculate?

I explained myself a few posts ago - in this setup, mafia does not need such information, therefore hiding it is only detrimental to the town in my eyes. If you need an actual quote, please ask me again and give me a few minutes since i'm on mobile.

Also on the menalque situation, i'm following it very closely. Sushi, what's your standing on menalque?

At first I townread him because his tone early on felt relaxed to me. His responses to NMSA and the reaction test felt off to me. I don't like that he said his read of NMSA weakened after he realized they weren't actually mind melding and it was a reaction test in 192: not being on the same mental track/mind-melding with someone isn't really a good reason not to find them town IMO, because it's entirely possible to have different takes on a situation or person and yet both be town, and doing something like a reaction test in the first place feels townish to me. I also didn't like his saying NMSA's bringing up GTKAS was scummy, even if he thought it was in the Speakeasy (an area not everyone here has access to); I don't see the reasoning behind that being alignment-indicative. But I can't decide if Menalque's scum or just town with bad reasoning as far as the thing with NMSA went.

[teacher]

@Sushi - what do you think of my take on you?