Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[eth0s]

I think they all take the conftown!you logic at face value. I don't. Waiting for PoE at the moment as I have others that I am more concerned about currently.

Would be cool if you provide more content, though.

My reads incoming soon for real this time

[Adorable]

The day ended way too fast on day 1 to the point when I get the feeling there were scum on Korina's bandwagon.

The game started out with 13 players, 2 are dead leaving 11 still alive and it takes 6 votes to lynch. Players have been talking about there being 3 scum which leaves us at 8 town still alive and 3 scum. Elements being suspected as scum could mean his scum buddies are voting elsewhere while town are voting him.

[eth0s]

Previewed my reads post to see Adorable is here! Hey adorbs, could you give us some thoughts on where your head is at? I would especially like to know where you stand on Elements, Elbirn, TL, mastina, and Chemist. Thanks!

Back to the reads I go.

[Adorable]

Previewed my reads post to see Adorable is here! Hey adorbs, could you give us some thoughts on where your head is at? I would especially like to know where you stand on Elements, Elbirn, TL, mastina, and Chemist. Thanks!

Back to the reads I go.

I have been scum reading Elements ever since I saw Korina's lynch and I've pretty much explained why. I was also scum reading Elbirn and I like Elbirn's recent posts and I'll give him another chance. TL's play reminds me of the newbie game I played with him when he was town and I figured that's how he plays as town. I don't know what TL's scum play is like if this is also how he plays as scum. On the beginning of day 2 I noticed Mastina voted Elements and then she switches her vote to EP. Mastina says EP, TL, and Elements are her scum reads. Since Mastina has been also been scum reading Elements, then why not vote him? Chemist has been asking questions and he hasn't been suspecting anyone and is he even scum hunting? I did notice he replaced momo who was inactive which means we know for sure Chemist is not the killer.

[eth0s]

I've decided to do this post-by-post because I feel that my delays have warranted an even more thorough analysis than I originally intended on giving. Lot of content incoming so beware.

Spoiler: EP

day one he jumps on TL which is kind of understandable given TD's case but it could be him going for LHF if he knows TL's playstyle.

Eth0s' initial impressions and post-sleep catch-up post:

Has anyone played with TL before? Is this par for the course?

My last game I played with TL he was a town PR doing basically the same thing he is doing now with generally inconsistent and flail-y stances and it was honestly one of the most frustrating town games I have ever played. To put it in perspective, I heavily wanted to lynch him even when he claimed PR without a CC. I honestly don't want to give myself the same headache of sorting him again. At least not this early in the game. It will consume me. He also claimed PR while not defending himself from a wagon at all, on day one. Like his defense

WAS

"I'm a PR" on day freaking one.

Yeah I already don't want to touch this topic.

In other news I have been awake for over 24 hours and feel like I'm not really processing things correctly atm but so far I am getting good vibes from Menalque's desire to press people and get some good discussion going. I have some gut townpings on espresso based on his meta. I especially can't tell how I feel about TD yet with my brain running on fumes.

I need to sleep before I even think about who could be scum here.

Okay I got some sleep and I take back the gut town ping on espresso; there's not even any content there so not sure what made me even say that lol.

Korinas opening felt awkward to me. I will admit this is my first upick type game so I feel like I might just not understand what's going on but something about that whole flavor claim (I think that's what you call that) doesnt really sit right with me.

I stand by not wanting to try to analyze TL yet because I care about my mental health today but I have to wonder what's going on from TD's perspective. It sounds like they have some history with TL but in that case I would really like to be enlightened how they think they can accurately read him. Esp this early on. On the one hand I wonder why scum!td would take this push on TL like that since his meta is verifiably unpredictable, making the push kinda seem opportunistic. On the other hand maybe there's some history to suggest TD wants TL out of the game out of fearing the slot? I need some backstory here.

Btw I see a parellel in this scenario with my last game with TL in which scum!robbnova was pressing a hard 1v1 with towncop!TL on day 1 early, later called it a reaction test and said TL failed, and then pushed TL much harder as a result. This isnt really that significant I guess but it's just weird.

I could see these posts coming from scum.

The first looks like an attempt to give at least some token effort reads from a first glance. The second looks like a more informed attempt at shaping those initial reads.

I agree that Korina was acting a bit weird at the beginning, but I don't like eth0s' vote there. I did some digging on potential options for a pride flag flavour claim + don't like some of the possibilities for Korina's role.

This felt really awkward to me because I don't get why he was trying to discredit my first-glance reads or how me needing to sleep and then refining the reads when I woke up was supposed to be scummy? Like there was no content in the game between my two posts so it's not like I came back and pocketed or waited for other people to say something I could cling onto. The fact that he didn't like how I voted Korina was supported by nothing and I don't know where he could have dug for more info on the flavor claim. All around a post that gives me weird vibes.

@Korina, you have a negative utility role that doesn't activate its negative utility until after today. In addition, there's a chance (be it small or large, it doesn't really matter) that you're just scum lying.

On the latter point, your posting, activity, and tone here are within the scum range you demonstrated in your Newbie game with Mena.

In my eyes, the only reason not to lynch you today is to maintain your neighbourhood power. It's definitely a great power, but I'm not yet sure if it's worth keeping over the risk your role poses to the town.

Here's some specific comments/questions re your power, but feel free to add anything else that comes to mind:
1. I'm not sure I fully appreciate the strength of your power for town. It's great that we get personalized neighbourhoods, but is that it?
2. I recall you mentioning something about a modifier or something... can you remind me?
3. I can't shake the concern of scum!you having access to the PTs.
4. How do we best utilize the PTs?

I did like this analysis and the kinds of questions he asked though. It seems like he wanted to use multiple aspects of the game to determine how to handle Korina. Not totally unlike what I did.

VOTE: Korina

L-1

however I was NOT a fan of him just jumping on Korina after I posted a potential solution without commenting on it. If he really cared about solving the Korina issue I feel like he would have had

something

to say about my thoughts on the matter.

TD and I didn't use the PT very much btw. We mostly discussed how/why we might be in a PT.

I was kinda worried it would be like FlavorLeaf's scum power in the Pokemon Upick + I didn't want to discuss too much. TD also gave me a heads up that he was going to prod TL because of TL's weird reactions early D1.

with them talking about TL in their PT it kind of reinforces my thoughts on a LHF grab vs TL.

VOTE: Elbirn
He scumslipped in twilight. Thinking this could be scummates with mastina. fwiw I see him voting mastina there as an acknowledgement of his scumslip and it looks like they are trying to distance for damage control.

Are you talking about 695?

VOTE: Elbirn
He scumslipped in twilight. Thinking this could be scummates with mastina. fwiw I see him voting mastina there as an acknowledgement of his scumslip and it looks like they are trying to distance for damage control.

Are you talking about 695?

Yes, he is. What do you think of that post?

I don't see the slip he's talking about.

this was weird. Although I think he might have already explained it, why did he immediately know what I was talking about yet not see a slip? Not a lot of substance here but still something that bothers me in regards to EP.

Should I be claiming here?

ffs. Can you just put some effort into the game instead of jumping straight into a claim when you haven't given people a reason to like you

Point taken.

Ok here's what I've got. I admittedly haven't been as obvtown as I normally am, but if you look at my ISO, you'll see natural progressions on reads + a good faith effort to sort the Korina fiasco.

I would agree with this up until the point he voted on Korina while ignoring my logic on the matter



--The whole 1v1 of him vs TL gives me townpings because I know what it's like to deal with TL as a townie and I'm not sure if scum would go to the length he did to try and get people to lynch TL. Like yeah the LHF aspect is still there but TL was definitely being "obtuse" as EP would say and EP was at least trying to get him to give reasonable answers rather than just convince the town to lynch him which I find slightly redeeming.--

I want anyone who thinks EP has done things that are pro-town this game to stand up and tell me what they are now. If they can't do that, I want them to tell me what makes the person they want to lynch today scummier than him. And if they can't do either of those two things then I want their vote on EP.

I want you to tell me how TL is townier than me.

Then I want you to vote TL.

oh yeah that happened. Forgot about that. I think this mostly comes from frustration so I won't really hold it against him but I guess it could be slipping into the "just trying to get town to lynch TL" territory.

--The lack of interaction with slots other than mena/TL is starting to become apparent as I continue diving down the ISO.--

VOTE: jjh

I reread mena's case and I'm inclined to agree, jjh does a good job of crafting narratives about other players but they're logically inconsistent. See also him forgetting about his saying that ep and tl are TvT and then mere hours later casing TL

I'll admit that I didn't read Mena's case in it's entirety before now

, as I assumed most of it would be drawing on a jjh/EP pairing to prove the case (which I know is false). The case actually brings up good points about jjh + it stands on its own without the scum!EP assumption.

I remember reading jjh's insistence on scum!Korina at twilight + thinking that was a bit weird, but I forgot about it shortly after.

VOTE: jjh

see bold underline

@Mena, yeah, I'm way off my game. The whole essays of 1v1 is a little too much for me.

I prefer wallposts laying it all out in an organized manner

. It's easier to engage with and respond to that.

The bottom line for me is this: Korina lied and got caught in it. Town don't/shouldn't lie if they can avoid it, so I'm happy to lynch there D1. I've lynched for weaker reasons on D1.

see bold underline.
It may be a bit of a stretch to point this out but you'd think that having something posted in a format that he prefers would be something he is interested in reading. Especially when it comes from the person he has most interacted with in this game.
I don't really know what to make of it. If he wasn't reading the post because he thought it hinged on him being scum then that's... weird but sort of townie I guess?

So yeah, on the PT shit:

1. You're accusing me of lying about stuff in the PT BEFORE deb actually died. This is actually moronic and you should be able to understand that
2.This should probably indicate to you that me and deb were posting in the pt and on good terms:

Wait there absolutely is something

We set up a means to talk to each other after the PT closed

If we said eels in a post, then the 5th word in every post after that would form a message. The message stops when a post contains the word nana

Deb said hello to me at eod because he could

Leave him alone he is precious like Nana's back hair

We have shaved it as she began to have back problems from the length and weight of the hair.

I trust that you have woven the hair into a fine garment for Nana, yes?

A waste of such a resource would be worthy of the merciless three shoe beating.

She decided to have it made into a nice sweater for one of her favorite pet eels.

You could even say hello if you were to come with me to the old country.

The burden of hospitality is never too great for Nana.

3: I can reveal what deb's information is if it would help because mastina can confirm it but it won't help at all

Wow, this is an amazing use of the PT! It's a pity DEB died before you guys could actually use it.

TD and I didn't use our PT very well, it seems.

VOTE: jjh

I reread mena's case and I'm inclined to agree, jjh does a good job of crafting narratives about other players but they're logically inconsistent. See also him forgetting about his saying that ep and tl are TvT and then mere hours later casing TL

I'll admit that I didn't read Mena's case in it's entirety before now, as I assumed most of it would be drawing on a jjh/EP pairing to prove the case (which I know is false). The case actually brings up good points about jjh + it stands on its own without the scum!EP assumption.

I remember reading jjh's insistence on scum!Korina at twilight + thinking that was a bit weird, but I forgot about it shortly after.

VOTE: jjh

How does EP make both of these posts

Because I believe both of them.

My complementing you for the PT does not preclude me from being able to agree with a scum case on you.

Honestly, Chemist, I think EP's vote is the most suspect

He was against the case, then 2 more people vote, then suddenly he sees merit to it

I don't recall being against the case. Can you quote the post(s) in which I say that?

I think it's also kinda weird that he didn't vote TL after my case or engage with said case in any way

My vote was already on TL at that point.

I forgot about this. I actually think this says a decent bit about jjh cherrypicking info? I need to keep this in mind when I get to the jjh ISO.

EP unvoting jjh just based on meta after that whole 1v1 does stike me as odd, though.

Final verdict/TL;DR:
Null/scum that I still cannot agree with lynching yet for reasons I have mentioned before. If you read his ISO then you will probably see what I am talking about but I would rather not spell it out plainly. He seems to only interact with slots that challenge him, while mostly pushing a lynch that I see as a potential grab for LHF. He made some good points on Korina day 1 then threw it out the window by avoiding my solution on the matter. His stance on jjh was wishywashy and felt unnatural. Want to give him another day to prove himself before I commit to anything on the slot, though.

[eth0s]

Previewed my reads post to see Adorable is here! Hey adorbs, could you give us some thoughts on where your head is at? I would especially like to know where you stand on Elements, Elbirn, TL, mastina, and Chemist. Thanks!

Back to the reads I go.

I have been scum reading Elements ever since I saw Korina's lynch and I've pretty much explained why. I was also scum reading Elbirn and I like Elbirn's recent posts and I'll give him another chance. TL's play reminds me of the newbie game I played with him when he was town and I figured that's how he plays as town. I don't know what TL's scum play is like if this is also how he plays as scum. On the beginning of day 2 I noticed Mastina voted Elements and then she switches her vote to EP. Mastina says EP, TL, and Elements are her scum reads. Since Mastina has been also been scum reading Elements, then why not vote him? Chemist has been asking questions and he hasn't been suspecting anyone and is he even scum hunting? I did notice he replaced momo who was inactive which means we know for sure Chemist is not the killer.

Where do you lie on the "is chemist conftown" debate

[eth0s]

Reads: Adorable

This slot has low content. Like, really low. I didn't notice how bad it was until just now actually (17 posts).

There's not really much to quote. If you want to read her ISO it'll take two minutes. She has been after elements the entire game for somewhat flimsy reasoning and seems to only suspect someone if they change stances, regardless of the context of the changed stance. Accusing jjh of buddying Elbirn at that point in time seems fair and understandable. Thinking that mena could be scummy for his interactions with jjh, not so much.

I need more to understand her because in my previous game with her, her content was low, but not this low. She made more efforts at scumhunting that game as well.

I'm not sure if this change in gameplay is AI or not but it's possible this is just scum!her taking advantage of never having the spotlight on her and sliding by.

Verdict:
Full null on the slot. Really nothing for me to base a read on other than a change in play from our prior game.

[eth0s]

Reads:

Also no point in putting a spoiler on this one. There is no content to work with.

Based on

Alright so question

Did mastina actually have a PT with Adorable at the start of the game

Because if not I think their first post was scummy in how deliberately “random” it was

I'm going to assume he didn't even read the game. Based on the low effort shown so far I am going to assume that's still the case.

Honestly, Chemist, I think EP's vote is the most suspect

He was against the case, then 2 more people vote, then suddenly he sees merit to it

Why do you sound like you're trying to get me to this read instead of pushing it yourself?

This is the most thought provoking thing he ever posted

He sheeps TD, that's about the only other thing to say.

Verdict:
null/town. The only reason I even ever so slightly want to lean town is the fact that I do think there is

some

merit to the argument that momo siteflaked and scum would have had him replaced sooner. But I have already stated my thoughts on why I do not fully believe that. It's honestly sad but looks like he is just riding the conftown thing he's been given and doesn't care about this game at all.

[eth0s]

@Chemist

Do you know what the items submitted for your slot are? I don't want you to say what they are but do you know? As in, did you know when you got the slot. If you had to ask to receive them then that defeats the purpose of my question.

[Adorable]

Previewed my reads post to see Adorable is here! Hey adorbs, could you give us some thoughts on where your head is at? I would especially like to know where you stand on Elements, Elbirn, TL, mastina, and Chemist. Thanks!

Back to the reads I go.

I have been scum reading Elements ever since I saw Korina's lynch and I've pretty much explained why. I was also scum reading Elbirn and I like Elbirn's recent posts and I'll give him another chance. TL's play reminds me of the newbie game I played with him when he was town and I figured that's how he plays as town. I don't know what TL's scum play is like if this is also how he plays as scum. On the beginning of day 2 I noticed Mastina voted Elements and then she switches her vote to EP. Mastina says EP, TL, and Elements are her scum reads. Since Mastina has been also been scum reading Elements, then why not vote him? Chemist has been asking questions and he hasn't been suspecting anyone and is he even scum hunting? I did notice he replaced momo who was inactive which means we know for sure Chemist is not the killer.

Where do you lie on the "is chemist conftown" debate

Chemist is still not conftown and I'm focusing on the players who were active since day 1 and momo was inactive on day 1-night 1 and inactives don't kill at night.

[eth0s]

Reads:

Spoiler: Elements

I like Son of a Shepard. Keeping sheep in an honorable profession. I will therefor sheep your first vote. Use this power wisely.

I'm gonna slightly edit this. I'll sheep your first vote as long as that won't make me hammer.

Seems a little overly cautious? This is pretty fluffy though.

I also didn’t like how 36 and 43 weren’t relevant to what was an interesting discussion and could have been intentionally trying to distract or move focus away.

Yes. I don't want to be discussing roles at this point in time.

I actually side with Elements over mena here for hopefully obvious reasons

Nah, I voted you for this game. Rereading FFB just made me feel more confident in my vote.

This does seem somewhat contradictory. "I'm not voting you because of that game. I'm voting you because of this game. But that games makes me think you're more likely scum this game."

This was extremely misreppy towards me and I'm still mad about it.

VOTE: korina

no reasoning given. Just totally ignores my logic like EP did, but Elements had even less a reason to vote. I still don't understand why town would do that. He even acknowledged my post and regarded it as TMI...

UNVOTE:
We got 10 day still people, let's not get hasty

pedit: I was just about to unvote you

fake. This is so so so fake. If it's not then I'll eat a shoe.

I'm liking jjh, TD, mena, and eth0s.
jjh's for his tunnels, TD for the read/stream post, eth0s because their iso, and mena is different from what I remember from ruby.
Elbirn, chemist, adorable all meh.
Adorable is just metaing me from one game. Chemist there's not much to go on. Elbirn hasn't done anything that swings me either way.
Not a fan of EP, TL, mastina.
Happy with a lynch on any of them.

"jjh for his tunnels" is just lol. his points on me and mena are so bland as well.

This post just seems like he feels obligated to say something about the gamestate and does it in a manner to give himself the least accountability in the future. it's icky af

Verdict:
SCUM. I know this seems lazy given the pretty small post I just made, but looking at his posts in isolation there isn't much to really go off of other than opportunism and obligation to say something. If you want a more clear understanding of why I feel this way, and why I am voting him, look at my ISO, where I actually talk about his play in the context of different situations.

[Menalque]

Wait when was chem ever conf!town? I do think he’s town but I don’t remember him being conf!town?

[eth0s]

Taking a break for a bit to play some R6S, will report back for some of the heftier ISOs in a bit

[eth0s]

Wait when was chem ever conf!town? I do think he’s town but I don’t remember him being conf!town?

According to Mastina he is. And no one ever really challenged that except for me. If I'm wrong someone should point it out but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

[Menalque]

Also I was worrying a tiny bit about eth0s just due to the drop off in activity but this is Good Content (tm) and I don’t think it comes from scum

Eth0s is locktown now, I don’t get why scum makes this much effort in a gamestate like this

[eth0s]

Elbirn ran with it most notably.

[Menalque]

Wait when was chem ever conf!town? I do think he’s town but I don’t remember him being conf!town?

According to Mastina he is. And no one ever really challenged that except for me. If I'm wrong someone should point it out but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Oh, was this the argument that his scumbuddies would have demanded a replacement? I thought that had some logic behind it and was a fair reason for chem!town but not conf!town material.

I do think chem is town tho. I don’t think scum him draws attention to his lack of activity unnecessarily, I think scum him just continues to lurk out. More content from him would be nice tho

[Elbirn]

Elbirn ran with it most notably.

Remembering that Mastina suggested it is reason to give me pause FWIW

But do you think that nearly 2 weeks into a game a scumteam DOESN'T go "uh hey mod we're missing a team mate"? It's cheap getting a conftown out of it but it makes sense

[eth0s]

For one, it was only 8 days after the game started that the replace happened. For two, momo hadnt posted at all in the 4 days of Day 1. I'm chalking it up to mod error/neglect that he wasn't replaced earlier. And as such I don't think it matters what his alignment is. Gamma posted one VC the entire Day 1 and it was the day the game started.

[Elbirn]

3. I don't know what your problem with this is. Only using VCA with flips is silly, broaden your mind .

4. You have cemented yourself further in my mind as a TL-Buddy for when he flips red, thank you <3.

I'm not gonna bother with the other points here I decided I don't care

But

3. The point is that you quite literally can't do VCA analysis without flips. It's the same reason pre-flip associations don't work. You don't know the alignments. You can't say "two scum are on this wagon so the wagonee is town" when you don't know *anyone's* alignment, and I don't understand why I have to explain this to you when your join date is 2011. If you want to make the inference that oh I don't like these people who hopped on so I don't feel good about the wagon sure whatever but that says nothing about the alignment of the wagonee.

4. You can't threaten me I'm town

[Elbirn]

For one, it was only 8 days after the game started that the replace happened. For two, momo hadnt posted at all in the 4 days of Day 1. I'm chalking it up to mod error/neglect that he wasn't replaced earlier. And as such I don't think it matters what his alignment is. Gamma posted one VC the entire Day 1 and it was the day the game started.

You know






I don't enjoy that you are correct. It means I am wrong and that is a bad feeling.

[TemporalLich]

for all I know elbirn is scum

him saying "I'm town" just proves that elbirn thinks he's town

[Elbirn]

for all I know elbirn is scum

him saying "I'm town" just proves that elbirn thinks he's town

I didn't say that part for your benefit
I am *defiant* because I alone know my cause is *righteous*

[TiphaineDeath]

Men and gods have also tried to get me to stop doing associations without flips, I have denied them all, and shall deny you as well.

[schadd_]

;