TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[Bitmap]

Ok so you should know that this game is pretty stressful for me.

Because you have RC trying to make sure you win it?

No RC doesn't care.

But the thing where you said the game was stressful to you was a followup to talking about what it's like playing with RC? I thought you were saying that RC was partially or primarily the cause of the stress in some way

Derp post. I'm saying the way people are talking about RC around me is making me stressed which Shadoweh pointed out.

[jjh927]

Okay then let's circle back around to

I mean I know I'm only being pushed because scum team is afraid of RC.

Why does Bitmap make this post in response to such minimal pressure from me when he hasn't called me scum elsewhere?

It's a response that doesn't make sense naturally from some persecution complex. He has adopted the victim mindset in order to defend himself.

because you didn't answer that in that case

[jjh927]

I wasn't talking about RC around you. I put you in a list of scum, and you were not the one I was primarily pushing at the time, and your reaction was to call my reads very bad and then make 553. It basically comes out of nowhere

[jjh927]

But yeah if you're gonna answer a question with a question then make sure your question leads to an answer to the original question

[jjh927]

As much as I'd like to continue this now I am pretty tired and am gonna go to bed but I shall return to this when I return

[Jingle]

Projection
Discrediting
Lack of Follow Through
Defensiveness
Trajectory
Self Consciousness
Team Focus
WK-ing Klick

Okay. This is the case on Bitmap in a nutshell. Let's take a crack at it.

Projection is a pet scumtell of mine, but there's a grain of salt there, because (spoiler) it's not actually a scumtell. I push it as scum because it's easy to fall back on and explain why someone is scum because of it AND if you successfully mislynch a town player over it you now have a fancy scumcase put forward by a trustworthy town player to fall back on. I push it as town because frequently it catches people off guard and they make more telling reactions after the accusation. But here's the thing: most people aren't self aware enough to realize that their likely wrong scumread is doing the same thing they themselves are doing. Here, Bitmap is accusing someone (Shadoweh, I think?) of being tryhard while being tryhard himself. Being tryhard isn't particularly scummy in itself, especially when someone is being tryhard without trying to strongarm the thread.

Discrediting mastina is definitely a thing Bitmap has been doing. But that's also not inherently scummy. There are three reactions to mastina. There are the people who mesh well with her style (me/jjh) there are the people who can deal with her style (most of the site) and there is Firebringer. Bitmap is showing all of the indications of a Firebringer. Complete inability to work with her, disdain for her reads and her style, willingness to lynch her despite her alignment. But mastina is not treating Bitmap the same way mastina treats Firebringer as town. Mastina knows how to work around people who don't want to play ball, and develop reads in spite of them. She's not doing that. She's staying focused on this one fight.

Lack of follow through on D1 when the original read came from "LOOK AT THE SHINY SCUMTELL" RC is fucking laughable. Defensiveness when getting into a 1v1 as one of the perceived weaker players in this game is similarly laughable.

Scum reading Bitmap because

I

dragged RC into this game is fucking hilarious, and protecting obvtown Klick is 100% not a scum move here. You don't protect a weaker town player people are associating you with as scum, you let them be lynched and then point out that the associations with them are why you were being scumread in the first place.

Basically, mastina's entire case as to why Bitmap is scum is actually things I did, or things I fully expect mastina to know are town or NAI at best. And mastina is townreading me.

[Jingle]

This scheme sounds more scummy than towny when your stated reasoning was to build a gamestate that actually helps you read people though
If this is like you say it is you're basically controlling the gamestate to get people to this state with the assumption where one of Bitmap and mastina is scum

Kinda exactly my point. All of the things mastina is scumreading Bitmap for I wouldn't expect town her to scumread Bitmap for OR were actually caused by me. Which tells me mastina isn't trying to read the situation at all.

And no, I didn't want Bitmap and mastina to fight, specifically. I wanted A fight in general. I would've continued poking people until either I got that fight or a serious wagon on me, at which point the true analysis begins. It just turned out that mastina jumped on bit.

[Shadoweh]

Bitmap-chan, dwelling on people labeling you as your avi isn't going to be productive tbh, if you move past it people will follow in time. I have personally put faith in you saying I get to talk to you.
Do you think the way jjh is treating this fight comes off as scummy or is he just working off of mastina since they apparently do well together?

[mastina]

Discrediting mastina is definitely a thing Bitmap has been doing. But that's also not inherently scummy.

Yes it is.

There are three reactions to mastina. There are the people who mesh well with her style (me/jjh) there are the people who can deal with her style (most of the site) and there is Firebringer.

And even Firebringer doesn't discredit me.
Firebringer doesn't like me--he really really doesn't like me. He makes that very readily known. But his criticisms of me are not discrediting.

So strike one against your analysis.

Bitmap is showing all of the indications of a Firebringer.

And this counts as not only strike two, but also strike three.

Two: Bitmap is not Firebringer. Firebringer didn't have this attitude towards me in his first game with me nor even his second. It took like five, ten games we played together for Firebringer to develop the attitude he did. Not one.

Three: Bitmap has shown none of the indicators Firebringer does.

So that should be sufficient counter to me not treating Bitmap the way I treat Firebringer.
Bitmap is showing every sign of being scum.
Not of being Firebringer.

Mastina knows how to work around people who don't want to play ball

And how many of those people who I work around are players that I have scumreads on?

...None?

...Yeah good fucking reason for that. I will play around people who don't want to play ball, when I am townreading them, because I am townreading them.

Defensiveness when getting into a 1v1 as one of the perceived weaker players in this game is similarly laughable.

No. To the contrary. Defensiveness when getting into a 1v1 against one of the perceived weaker players in the game is PRECISELY what makes it suspect in the first place. Defensiveness against a player considered to be elite is understandable, but I wouldn't inherently call it suspect; it is precisely because I am seen as one of the weaker players in the game that defensiveness against me is so out of place.

Scum reading Bitmap because

I

dragged RC into this game is fucking hilarious

This is not something anyone has done yet alone me.
See also: Bitmap's narrative of RC is bullshit.

protecting obvtown Klick is 100% not a scum move here.

It absolutely is when Klick was mislynch bait with a notable wagon and a very real chance of having a lynch go through.

You don't protect a weaker town player people are associating you with as scum, you let them be lynched and then point out that the associations with them are why you were being scumread in the first place.

Yes? And what about Bitmap's approach wasn't this?

Basically, mastina's entire case as to why Bitmap is scum is actually things I did, or things I fully expect mastina to know are town or NAI at best. And mastina is townreading me.

Not really true and even if it were there's a key difference there, Jingle.
Bitmap isn't you.

Things which are a scumtell in general can be not-scumtells or even towntells for specific players; things which are scumtells for one specific player can be towntells for others; etc.

[mastina]

OR were actually caused by me.

Nothing Bitmap did was caused by you.
Not a single thing.

Taking credit for what Bitmap has done is simply put: not possible.
You are completely and entirely irrelevant in terms of what Bitmap has done.

[Bitmap]

Bitmap-chan, dwelling on people labeling you as your avi isn't going to be productive tbh, if you move past it people will follow in time. I have personally put faith in you saying I get to talk to you.
Do you think the way jjh is treating this fight comes off as scummy or is he just working off of mastina since they apparently do well together?

I think one of jjh or mastina is scum. It could be jjh for piggybacking off mastina. It could be mastina for the really shitty reads. Idk which.

[Bitmap]

Okay then let's circle back around to

I mean I know I'm only being pushed because scum team is afraid of RC.

Why does Bitmap make this post in response to such minimal pressure from me when he hasn't called me scum elsewhere?

It's a response that doesn't make sense naturally from some persecution complex. He has adopted the victim mindset in order to defend himself.

because you didn't answer that in that case

b/c i felt pressured

[Klick]

Jingle

Gamma Emerald

Alisae

Chemist1422

Shadoweh

hitogoroshi

Klick

mastina

Bitmap

ofrhz

Menalque

jjh927

Kerset

[Klick]

protecting obvtown Klick is 100% not a scum move here.

It absolutely is when Klick was mislynch bait with a notable wagon and a very real chance of having a lynch go through.

How do we have such different interpretations of this? Half the people on my wagon blatantly said they didn't have any strong feelings about me.

[Jingle]

Though as an aside I really wanna just tell Jingle my 123 thing and nobody else but there's no way of doing that

Let me take a minute to give you my setup impressions.

Likely decentralized power. Not a single tentpole setup, but rather a synergy based setup. Scum power therefore is probably disruptive in nature. (Roleblocker/Rolecop seems the most likely.)

Given the mods, unlikely to be a setup where ridiculous interactions is the key to solving it (see me/Ali/Krazy) but rather something fairly tame.

Probably little to no low talent roles (cop, for example) since this is designed as a measure of skill. Tracker, JK, Doc, etc FAR more likely.

Flavor wise, 3p and multikill are both reasonable, although scum will only have one killing role.

At this point, you're an unlikely town target but a relatively likely scumtarget. You should probably claim sometime around D3 assuming my assumptions are fairly accurate as Rolecop is a very likely scumrole.

[ofrhz]

VOTE: hito

I haven’t been vibing his pushes and the one on Klick seems especially nitpicky.

I’m also a little surprised to see that he still scumleans Chemist even though his two top townreads, Alisae and Mena, both said what was described in 312 isn’t scum indicative for chemist.

——

I’m not really convinced there is scum in {mastina, Bitmap}. I’ll take a closer look later, but on initial read, I’m not very convinced by mastina’s case. I still think she is town, mainly for the degree of conviction I see in her posts.

[mastina]

Likely decentralized power. Not a single tentpole setup, but rather a synergy based setup.

Scum power therefore is probably disruptive in nature. (Roleblocker/Rolecop seems the most likely.)

Given the mods, unlikely to be a setup where ridiculous interactions is the key to solving it (see me/Ali/Krazy) but rather something fairly tame.

Probably little to no low talent roles (cop, for example) since this is designed as a measure of skill. Tracker, JK, Doc, etc FAR more likely.

Flavor wise, 3p and multikill are both reasonable, although scum will only have one killing role.

So I've broken this up into five parts to keep this as vague as possible.

My role I believe agrees with at least one of these, is indifferent two I believe two of these, and makes two of these incredibly likely to be incorrect. Two of your five assessments are at least probably if not certainly off-base.

[Alisae]

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

Well, I'm getting scolded by my team that maybe you could be town and I HATE talking to scum
do you have a town post that stood out to you?

[Menalque]

there's a lot of people who are town reading me or top town reading me and tbh I don't get it as I really don't think I've done anything to warrant it yet

[Menalque]

I am kind of caught up but with the corollary that I've been skimming mastina's walls

[Alisae]

there's a lot of people who are town reading me or top town reading me and tbh I don't get it as I really don't think I've done anything to warrant it yet

in that case, if you think you can play better, then play better

[Menalque]

my takes on the last ~10 pages:

-ofhrz is still town
-klick is actually prob town
-shadoweh is very town
-hito can be town
-Ali can be town

-chem is weird but I think town?

-jjh is scummy but that may mean he's towny
-kerset is null
-mastina is mostly null but also someone who I really don't get why I'm at the top of her TRs for -- mastina, you said this was something you could talk about, so can you

-jingle may be scum but not a good lynch today probably
-bitmap may be scum but not a good lynch today

-gamma has still not posted anything much of anything

VOTE: gamma

Ali/mastina, do you wanna vote gamma now seeing as he's back on site and yet clearly avoiding the game which in my experience of gamma is strongly +scum indicative for him?

[Menalque]

there's a lot of people who are town reading me or top town reading me and tbh I don't get it as I really don't think I've done anything to warrant it yet

in that case, if you think you can play better, then play better

there's a difference between me thinking I've not done anything that should have people TRing me and me thinking I'm playing badly

[Menalque]

I mean that's part of the reason why I think klick is actually towny bc he seems to have a healthy level of paranoia about me since 892 but he's not being excessive or trying to weaponise it imo

[Menalque]

I'm fairly confident I'll obvtown as game goes on; I just don't think I've obvtowned

yet

which makes the TRs on me TMIy or just bad