Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Xtoxm]

Also, odds of Momo being a traitor and outing to his teammates who are in there as a means to signal to kill them at night?

hmmm

i think its an extremely niche theory that we have no evidence of.

[momo]

momo why the flip flop on BM now? Yesterday you seemed to think he was scummy

I still do to some extent. But if we frame the discussion as one person in our PT being scum, I think AbR is scummier and it shines a townier light on BM. I don’t like either of them, but the interactions between ABR and BM make me more likely to view ABR as scum
And BM as town.

[farside22]

I'm not running anyone else up today. If a doc is out there he can safely guard Hectic without worrying about being forced to claim. I'm ready to wrap this up and go to night if you are too xtoxm.

im not eager to rush onto the cw, tbh
with momo immediately clarifying that its not a 3p claim
1-shot bulletproof claim basically? thats a claim that at this point in the day almost certainly results in momo being lynched. anti-survivalistic claims dont *usually* come from scum..
i think BM is the more likely scum in your hood.

Traps were used in the movie against people to kill them.
Bf/trap is an oxymoron to say the least, but i digress that momo play doesnt ring town as far as meta goes.
Holding back due to wagon analysis because out of 4 players (maybe 5) you had sr on more players there, reads fake reasoning to me.

ok well you failing to townread me here is kind of a massive scumtell for you
im not going far into this game and whenever i flip will be a very bad look

Actually what I think is your game play thus far is bias.
I think you have set your mind up and decided you don't care to figure anyone or anything else out.
I wouldn't call that town. Wouldn't call that scum. Just calling a spade a spade.

And with that said I'm officially ignoring Xtoxm for however long we are both in this game together or until he grows a pair and actually plays the game as whatever alignment he is.

[Vecna]

Momo?

Momo, why word it so confusingly and not clarify that in the first post? Also, kindly explain what a fucking Trap is. Is that the gimmick here? Are we dealing with a team of Poisoners?

the more I think about this the more this is a super scummy post regardless of Momo's alignment, btw

I actually don't think I want to assume "there must be a scum in the hood" regarding the Survivor group, if momo townflips I don't think that has to point to scum in the other three. It's good to consider but I'm not convinced it's necessarily true.

I mean, the movies strongly imply that there is an acolyte in the survivors. Ofcourse, that is also the best way for a sadistic mod like cakez ( ) to create some awesome drama in this game.

ANYWAYS

Anyone could also figure out that the survivor PT is most likely to contain the strongest town PR's.

I WANT TO KNOW

_WHO_

In that PT started the witchhunt and instigated the others to join them.

Because -that- is the most likely scumslot in there.

[Battle Mage]

heyyee so about those wagons

I think there's definitely a lot of town on hectic but im not impressed by the "reasoning", if you can call it that. forgive me if i missed where it is, i checked ABR, A50, and like someone else's isos to try n find it

BM has suddenly revealed himself as town so that's cool

i think I learn a lot more from a momo flip than a hectic flip. i do find it interesting that hectic had somewhat of a read 180 on momo, but i also had that townlean on momo and never went to really reevaluate the slot so i can see it as a town move

VOTE: momo

I agree with this assessment on Hectic - I saw it somewhat as self-preservation. Which for him, I'm considering NAI given the circumstances.

[momo]

Momo, why word it so confusingly and not clarify that in the first post? Also, kindly explain what a fucking Trap is. Is that the gimmick here? Are we dealing with a team of Poisoners?

the more I think about this the more this is a super scummy post regardless of Momo's alignment, btw

I actually don't think I want to assume "there must be a scum in the hood" regarding the Survivor group, if momo townflips I don't think that has to point to scum in the other three. It's good to consider but I'm not convinced it's necessarily true.

I mean, the movies strongly imply that there is an acolyte in the survivors. Ofcourse, that is also the best way for a sadistic mod like cakez ( ) to create some awesome drama in this game.

ANYWAYS

Anyone could also figure out that the survivor PT is most likely to contain the strongest town PR's.

I WANT TO KNOW

_WHO_

In that PT started the witchhunt and instigated the others to join them.

Because -that- is the most likely scumslot in there.

BM was the one who first said he thought I was scum in the PT and ABR has believed pretty much the entire game that 1 in 4 of us have to be scum.

When I asked him what he thought of Pine lurking, he said Pine had to be scum because 1 in 4 and the rest of us (including me) are prolly town.

When BM asked ABR about me, he said I had to be scum because 1 in 4 and the other 3 (now including Pine) are town.

It’s ridiculously scummy. If that’s ur criteria for voting, vote ABR

[Battle Mage]

Meta-cases are tricky because people change as time passes, but I don't think it's that common for somebody to go from being an authoritative and decisive town-leader, to a whimpering pleading town-passenger.

Why on Earth would you characterize me as a whimpering pleading town-passenger. First of all, the notion of me being a passenger is total bull shit. The current wagon on Hectic, I started that. I get that you want everything to fit your narrative, but if you even took the time look at a single vote count, you would see that the first vote on the current Hectic wagon is me.

I have changed my vote as the day progressed, but that doesn't make me a pleading passenger in any sense of the word. I've started and joined wagons as the game progressed. From my initial vote on Morning Tweet to now, my vote has always been exactly where I want it to be. Just because I've grown as a player and realized how FOOLISH you have to be to proclaim a game of forum mafia completely solved D1, doesn't mean that I'm whimpering. I get that you think of yourself as some sort of super genius, but you're not. You're nowhere near solving this game and honestly, chances are I'm not either. I think Hectic is scum, that's why I'm voting him, but I don't say ridiculous things anymore like proclaim to catching the entire scum team through preflip associatives D1.

I can be as bullish as you want, but there's a reason I haven't been playing like that (or I guess like this since you've clearly managed to bait me) this game. Mafia is a game of consensus building. I'm not well known enough on this site to be bullish and to tell people to follow me and to expect successful wagons on my scumreads.

To conclude, I'm not whimpering and I'm certainly not pleading. The fact that you would falsely characterize me as such is frankly insulting. I'm playing smart, even if that's something you can't understand.

It was probably a slightly crude characterisation, but you know what you mean! A lot of it really boils down to the way you type - I really like reading people through that because it's the purest way. People can easily perform a certain style as town and scum, but sometimes the precise wording they use, and the way they communicate can give you clues. Maybe I'm wrong of course, but I stand by the assessment - you are not communicating in a way you have as town, and your word-selection makes me think you are very likely to be scum. The defence that you are not well-known enough to be bullish doesn't stack up, as I've clearly said that you have been bullish in the past (when presumably you were less well-known than now).

It's not a question of whether I'm "solving the game" by lynching you - obviously if you're scum it's a great start, and if you're not - heck, I've lynched the player I think is most likely to be scum, which is the only way to play! And I do think drawing associatives are important, especially later once we get some flips, although I definitely don't think I've caught the whole scumteam today - you've got me confused with Vecna I think.

[Blake Belladonna]

Vote: Blake Belladonna

Vote: Blake Belladonna

VOTE: Battle Mage
Failed vote clearly scum fake-RVSing their partner

More later today maybe
Please keep the game length tolerable okay? Don’t post more than 100 posts in a day for the first 3 days imo

Now tell me that this does not look a bit funny in hindsight.

Why of all posts does Gamma pick up on BM voting for Blake belladonna, and calls it scum fake RVSing their partner?

Now tell me this scenario does not overlap at least conveniently with your PoE pools

And then debate with me whether these lines dont come from scum trying to get too cute in an overwhelming (read statistically significant if so inclined to avoid sensationalism) number of cases.

BM/BB as potential baddies together? GE as a teammate or a towny having a good gut sensation? Lets explore this further

What does this mean for hectic and Momo?

Thoughts whether if im accurate that BM is saving Hectic here, or just setting up for a 1v1 to set up the next mislynch?

You are overanalyzing this. I agree now that I look at this again that post 34 is strange, but it is strange in the way that it's simply an awkward scum entrance.

It's common for scum to struggle to get into a game, so they latch onto the first thing that looks remotely interesting to them in am awkward way. I don't find it likely that Battle Mage is scum in the first place, but this call out especially is a SvT associative for if Gamma Emerald ever flips scum.

You cannot possibly convince me you really thing that GE as scum is thinking that far ahead is that conniving, and hopes for it to work.

These types of posts comes from scum being overly cute, or town thinking people are bussing. I see no real indication why a town GE would think that in that situation, because making an error in the vote is something that you only notice and pay heed to if your teammate is doing it.

You are assuming that there was a reason for that post beyond just getting into the game. I am telling you that this isn't necessarily the case.

[Battle Mage]

I haven't caught up yet, but is my hood outted?

something to look forward to!

[Blake Belladonna]

BM, Pine, momo and I are in a hood. We believe momo is the scum. I was going to run Hectic up to L-1 to see who was eager to save momo and then shift onto momo last minute for the day 1 lynch.

How known within the hood is this sentiment?

[Battle Mage]

iDanyboy (2) - Elsa Jay, GuiltyLion
Drixx (2) - VaultDweller, Pine
xtoxm (2) - BBmolla, Morning Tweet
Battle Mage (1) - Vecna
BBmolla (1) - GeorgeBailey
Vecna (1) - Drixx
GuiltyLion (1) - Gamma Emerald
Pine (1) - pisskop
farside22 (1) - xtoxm

Pretty much all of these players voting should pick a side now. We are close to deadline. I'll try to get my thoughts out on Hectic by Tuesday or Wednesday.

Added spacing for clarity on request

I'm picking a momo lynch over Hectic

Good work soldier!

Xtom why don't you explain a farside or Hectic scumread so we can talk maybe

Far side - instead of trying to work things out with me she is just returning the scumread, bc she expects to win out against me. Otherwise doesnt feel townie. I played with her a lot in the past.

Hectic - my strongest tr is vote there (a50) and abr who I also tr keeps asking me to vote there. Most of the wagon is my townread or townleans. At some point I need to compromise. I dont tr any of the slots on the alternate momo wagon.

I am also confused why you seem to put weight on the things I say, yet have me as a sr. It seems contradictory.

Cause id like to hear you say something, anything, so i have something to base a read off of

Xtoxm has posted plenty enough for you to have a read on him surely?

Ehh. Albert, did you switch to Momo or are you gung ho on Hectic? I'll follow you for now.

This is lame - scum points for you Elsa.

[farside22]

BM, Pine, momo and I are in a hood. We believe momo is the scum. I was going to run Hectic up to L-1 to see who was eager to save momo and then shift onto momo last minute for the day 1 lynch.

How known within the hood is this sentiment?

This question can't be serious. If ABR says they believe momo is scum do you think it wasn't discussed? If it was, what is your take on the wagon and how it went?

[Vecna]

So noone in there started a hunt of sorts to figure out which of the people in your hood were scum? And was pushing the rest to hunt scum in your hood?

[Battle Mage]

BM, Pine, momo and I are in a hood. We believe momo is the scum. I was going to run Hectic up to L-1 to see who was eager to save momo and then shift onto momo last minute for the day 1 lynch.

How known within the hood is this sentiment?

First I've heard of it!

Only joking, we all share an unspoken bond.... I feel naked now my hood is outted....I thought we were gonna keep it tight?

[Battle Mage]

guys guys let me catch up!

[farside22]

So noone in there started a hunt of sorts to figure out which of the people in your hood were scum? And was pushing the rest to hunt scum in your hood?

If so, I don't mind it gave me a lot of insight as well.

[Blake Belladonna]

BM, Pine, momo and I are in a hood. We believe momo is the scum. I was going to run Hectic up to L-1 to see who was eager to save momo and then shift onto momo last minute for the day 1 lynch.

How known within the hood is this sentiment?

This question can't be serious. If ABR says they believe momo is scum do you think it wasn't discussed? If it was, what is your take on the wagon and how it went?

Interesting.

You don't find that strange?

[Blake Belladonna]

BM, Pine, momo and I are in a hood. We believe momo is the scum. I was going to run Hectic up to L-1 to see who was eager to save momo and then shift onto momo last minute for the day 1 lynch.

How known within the hood is this sentiment?

First I've heard of it!

Only joking, we all share an unspoken bond.... I feel naked now my hood is outted....I thought we were gonna keep it tight?

So this wasn't discussed in your neighborhood much or at all before now?

[Xtoxm]

what i think blake is getting at, is that if this plan was discussed in the hood, and assuming scum can see the hood, then scum were never going to 'fall for it', since they already knew about it.

[Battle Mage]

BM is your push on Momo mostly meta? You're saying he's acting more passive than he is as town, right?

Momo is MODERATE SCUM - Hard to really quantify, mostly a strong gut feeling. I just get super scummy vibes from his posting, including the wording used. Something to meta later. Could definitely see him as scum with Danyboy. And potentially with VaultDweller.

Is there a specific post you think he really reveals how scummy he is?

Nope it's not mostly meta, the meta is just for added strength. The main argument is the wording he uses, taking pleading emotional tone, using phrases like "honestly" and "genuine question". His posting since taking some heat was pretty weak I think. I've probably covered the case better in my previous posts, so you're welcome to ISO him, or me and make a judgement for yourself!

this is exactly how I feel - the way ABR is pushing Hectic makes me wonder if there's some kind of scum slip there relating to hoods but I read over Hectic's ISO several times and don't see it.

I still don't like Danyboy's Hectic vote and Elsa Jay's is bad too. Badfeels from the wagon.

I also didn't like Momo's interactions with Battle Mage, saying he's "lining up lynches" and calculated-therefore-scummy for posting an evolving reads list both strike me as uncharitable/reachy pushes.

I can see a world where Momo is town and I can see a world where Hectic is scum but I'm feeling Momo over Hectic unless ABR has an especially compelling point on something I'm not seeing

VOTE: Momo

Very astute.

Im not sure about Hectic, but Battle mage is doing a thing here where he either wants to distract from the Hectic wagon, or wants to create two alternating wagons between momo and Hectic to set up the day2 mislynch.

I think this is a classic misguided townie move. No scum points here for you! It's pretty obvious I'm distracting from the Hectic wagon, so I don't think that's a tremendous insight. The reason is obviously because Momo is scummier. Unless you feel differently, I don't really know why you're bothering with this?

Hectic, BM, Blake Belladonna, maybe GE (4/5)?

wow this is a really bad scumlist

Interesting how of all the "bad readslists" in the game, this is the only one you choose to respond to

In fairness to BBmola, it's a pretty bad readslist. The first 3 are probably town based on the play so far.

VOTE: Hectic

This is the better wagon.

I don't believe you believe that, and the timing is a bit off. Scum points for you!

[Albert B. Rampage]

It was never discussed openly, we've all been reading through the lines. All of us think the pt has scum in it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

what i think blake is getting at, is that if this plan was discussed in the hood, and assuming scum can see the hood, then scum were never going to 'fall for it', since they already knew about it.

It was never discussed.

[Xtoxm]

what i think blake is getting at, is that if this plan was discussed in the hood, and assuming scum can see the hood, then scum were never going to 'fall for it', since they already knew about it.

It was never discussed.

ok, thanks for clarifying albert

[Blake Belladonna]

VOTE: Momo

This is a good lynch then.

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Blake Belladonna

Vote: Blake Belladonna

VOTE: Battle Mage
Failed vote clearly scum fake-RVSing their partner

More later today maybe
Please keep the game length tolerable okay? Don’t post more than 100 posts in a day for the first 3 days imo

Now tell me that this does not look a bit funny in hindsight.

Why of all posts does Gamma pick up on BM voting for Blake belladonna, and calls it scum fake RVSing their partner?

Now tell me this scenario does not overlap at least conveniently with your PoE pools

And then debate with me whether these lines dont come from scum trying to get too cute in an overwhelming (read statistically significant if so inclined to avoid sensationalism) number of cases.

BM/BB as potential baddies together? GE as a teammate or a towny having a good gut sensation? Lets explore this further

What does this mean for hectic and Momo?

Thoughts whether if im accurate that BM is saving Hectic here, or just setting up for a 1v1 to set up the next mislynch?

Dude, everything here is predicated on me being scum. Do you have anything valuable to contribute? Your pal Momo won't be happy, he hates people who think they have the game busted on Day 1.