Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Albert B. Rampage]

Some people are in confbias mode and desperately looking for certainty and logic, but instead of evaluating each player equally they are spending like 80% of their mental capacity on me, and ignoring everyone else.

Which is the wrong way to play. We tried that yesterday in fact.

[Albert B. Rampage]

In reality, i feel theres no stopping BM's wrath at this point and i wanted to see if the key would convince BM to wait 1 extra day. cause i wanna lynch elsewhere

Yes I felt the same yesterday, that no matter what I tried to do to stop xtoxm from being lynched, people just werent going to listen and it would be a waste of time. And I didn't know 100% if he was town, of course. The more bm posted the more I wanted to believe it and confbiased myself lazily.

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry for the non-existent D2. I'm catching up, and I want to lynch Idany, because I still think he's still a good lynch today.

Lynched:

momo

momo (11) - Hectic, farside22, Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion, Albert B. Rampage, Elsa Jay, Blake Belladonna, Almost50, Battle Mage, xtoxm, BBmolla

To re-iterate my TR:

The first three votes on here is pretty much my town-core (obviously excluding the dead people). I feel like the wagon-starters are the most likely to be town on wagons that flip scum.

xtoxm

-

xtoxm (9) - Battle Mage, farside22, Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion, BBmolla, Almost50, Gamma Emerald, pisskop, Albert B. Rampage

This wagon is interesting. There's obviously a bunch of scum on here, but I townread most of the people on the wagon (dead towns are a given), by PoE, scum would be: Pisskop, Gamma, and BB.

Of the three, I think this was a sus vote due to lack of progression:

Agreed btw

VOTE: Xtotm

Besides that, I still think idany has a better chance of flipping scum.

VOTE: Idanyboy

iDanyboy (4) - Battle Mage, momo, BBmolla, Albert B. Rampage

This is probably the only thing psyching me out right now. This is might be distancing though. Momo and Idany both switched to the Hectic wagon when it got hot, so I can see the partnering.

ABR and BM have very similar posting styles so I realy don't get this hate. BM is playing the same as he did in day 1 and he loved him there.

VOTE: ABR

This vote is also kinda awful. Barely commenting on ABR, and framing it like the choice is between BM and ABR. They can be both Town. Which is what I think.

Right now, I don't see BM or ABR flipping scum. BM was actively spearheading the momo lynch, and ABR voted at a time when the wagon was still small. I don't see scum bussing early when there's a possibility of other wagons. I think that if ABR was scum, he would have joined the Elsa wagon when it was large. He was also didn't want Elsa to be lynched that day.

Also, this is a weaker meta read, but before this game I actually sorta knew about ABR from the wiki. I read up on this one guide he made (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=12552) which helped immensely in a game I recently played (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82497). He seems to be playing a lot like how he talked about in the guide, which he describes as starting pro-town discussions.

You know looking at that guide why did ABR never try to have my head for deliberately avoiding Day 1? Kinda tells me he wasn’t fully in this mindset.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The fact is theres a lot of players here and majority is town, if you let 1 town player tell you who to lynch based on their biased opinion without thinking for yourself, because your head isn't on the chopping block yet, then it's going to be a tough uphill battle to win for town.

[Battle Mage]

@BM You're seriously misinterpreting me. The main thing holding me back from ABRs lynch is not the key. The key is an extra block added to the tower of reasons in my head for me not wanting to lynch him

That's definitely not how you made it sound, and I'm not the only one who came to that conclusion, so have you considered it might be you, rather than me?

I can't combat certain parts cause some are PT related. I mostly focused on the flavour and setup spec cause i know saw pretty decently.

seriously, his case has like 9 parts. Its scummy that I focus on certain things? Only some of them interest me to talk about

Not enough honey. Sure you may only take interest in certain parts and some things may be hard to discuss due to the closed-door nature of the topic but I still think your approach is scummy. You are finding the one or two things that don’t quite fit and arguing that those are enough reason to not lynch ABR. And the turnaround BM pointed out feeds into that, as well as fitting a personal scum tell I’ve developed, where scum will latch onto a point that a townie proposes if it sounds better than what they’re currently using for logic, regardless of optics. I suggested that we spare ABR because of the key and you suddenly pick up on that as your key (no pun intended) reason to not lynch ABR.

So BM there’s a reason what you observed happened.

You're good. *bows*

I don't have any REDACTED parts to my role pm.

Btw why tf would I claim unprompted on N1 to Pine and BM if I were scum? They weren't even in the PT since they got kidnapped, and I didn't know they were gone.

There's so many inconsistencies it's like swiss cheese.

For what it's worth, I don't believe you didn't realise we were gone, based on the way you posted in our absence. Your motivation for claiming was obviously to fish for info from us and to build trust. Regardless of alignment right??

Also, this reminds me that they only get a flavour fakeclaim. They have to make up the rest themselves. So the mod is not responsble for coming up with abilities for them.

wait what?

How do you know this? That could change a lot, but i assumed that isnt the case?

I'm reading backwards, but a few posts after this you imply that you and Blake had Mod confirmation this wasn't the case....?

I think people who are doubting my alignment are being tricked by repeitition and falling into confbias, and starting to suffer the same laziness I did yesterday.

At some point it's easier to just go with the majority, and when 1 player makes 13 posts in 1 page it feels like that 1 player IS the majority. Just destroys critical thinking from everyone and creates doubt.

Does anyone think there's an actual strong case on me besides BM?

Cause when BM was all like "xtoxm is jigsaw" and reverse engineered everything that happened to make it fit, I was like "oh strong case".

Turns out it was a weak ass case and BM proceeded to just SHRUG IT OFF LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED.

Which is what I suspect will happen again if I flip.

I fully expect if you're town that I'll get some heat tomorrow, on the same logic of 2 scum in our hood. I'm amazed you haven't taken that line with me today - if I was in your shoes as town I'd have done so.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, this is a weaker meta read, but before this game I actually sorta knew about ABR from the wiki. I read up on this one guide he made (viewtopic.php?t=12552) which helped immensely in a game I recently played (viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82497). He seems to be playing a lot like how he talked about in the guide, which he describes as starting pro-town discussions.

God damnit that was the wrong guide. This is the one that helped me out (although the other one was helpful too):

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=7958

My question still stands.

[Albert B. Rampage]

People tend to like easy answers, black and white, BM good ABR bad, consistency and frequency of posts influences our opinion unconsciously especially when we aren't terribly invested in the decision.

[Battle Mage]

In reality, i feel theres no stopping BM's wrath at this point and i wanted to see if the key would convince BM to wait 1 extra day. cause i wanna lynch elsewhere

Yes I felt the same yesterday, that

no matter what I tried to do to stop xtoxm from being lynched, people just werent going to listen and it would be a waste of time.

And I didn't know 100% if he was town, of course. The more bm posted the more I wanted to believe it and confbiased myself lazily.

I assume you're reading this, MorningTweet?

[Morning Tweet]

@BM No, blake and I had confirmation that momo was a mafia neighbour. Didnt ask mod about the fake claim tho, so vecnas assertion was a surprise to me

[Gamma Emerald]

BM I think the heart of our disagreement is whether or not the Acolytes real flavour name aligns with the hood status or not.

Lynching ABR wouldn't solve that mystery unless he flips scum. If he flips Corbett, we learn nothing.

That is a weak sauce reason to not lynch ABR imo

Plus it’s

extremely

circumstantial evidence.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Don't make the same mistake we made day 2 on day 3 again guys. This is what got us here, literally.

[Morning Tweet]

In reality, i feel theres no stopping BM's wrath at this point and i wanted to see if the key would convince BM to wait 1 extra day. cause i wanna lynch elsewhere

Yes I felt the same yesterday, that

no matter what I tried to do to stop xtoxm from being lynched, people just werent going to listen and it would be a waste of time.

And I didn't know 100% if he was town, of course. The more bm posted the more I wanted to believe it and confbiased myself lazily.

I assume you're reading this, MorningTweet?

Hehe (* >ω<)

It is a little tempting just to give in, you are such a relentless force. Gut says to do otherwise though

[Gamma Emerald]

1. It's game breaking if the Acolytes are all in their real PTs

2. Logan wasnt in the support group. Which is your theming. You have a picture of chairs in a circle or something, ya? That's your theme, and only you and momo's fake role fit with it.

That fact that Corbett and Perez don't align with this theming just makes it even more apparent that the hoods dont perfectly align with role flavour. Corbett IS either ABRs real role or his fakeclaim. Corbett is considered a Jigsaw Survivor. It doesnt matter if Logan is considered a jigsaw survivor or not-- any character can pass as one if Corbett can

1: no it’s not, I just had a Mafia game get broken by the setup and that wouldn’t do it. There’s enough possible scum flavors for it to be a challenge to hunt by flavor.

2: You don’t know that for certain, or do you?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Your motivation for claiming was obviously to fish for info from us and to build trust.

I wouldn't throw away scum's most powerful day weapon, the PR claim, on N1 to you and Pine for a shot at knowing your roles. You said you had a useless role. And I would try to manipulate you/pine with momo, instead of bus him wtf?

[Morning Tweet]

BM I think the heart of our disagreement is whether or not the Acolytes real flavour name aligns with the hood status or not.

Lynching ABR wouldn't solve that mystery unless he flips scum. If he flips Corbett, we learn nothing.

That is a weak sauce reason to not lynch ABR imo

Plus it’s

extremely

circumstantial evidence.

That was a response to BM saying that "Its worth a shot" to lynch ABR to confirm or not confirm his theory.

so.... yeah it is a good reason within that context.

[Morning Tweet]

1. It's game breaking if the Acolytes are all in their real PTs

2. Logan wasnt in the support group. Which is your theming. You have a picture of chairs in a circle or something, ya? That's your theme, and only you and momo's fake role fit with it.

That fact that Corbett and Perez don't align with this theming just makes it even more apparent that the hoods dont perfectly align with role flavour. Corbett IS either ABRs real role or his fakeclaim. Corbett is considered a Jigsaw Survivor. It doesnt matter if Logan is considered a jigsaw survivor or not-- any character can pass as one if Corbett can

1: no it’s not, I just had a Mafia game get broken by the setup and that wouldn’t do it. There’s enough possible scum flavors for it to be a challenge to hunt by flavor.

2: You don’t know that for certain, or do you?

i do, Pine told me in our PT. Perez and Logan do not fit with that theme. BM's role and Simone do.

[Battle Mage]

The fact is theres a lot of players here and majority is town, if you let 1 town player tell you who to lynch based on their biased opinion without thinking for yourself, because your head isn't on the chopping block yet, then it's going to be a tough uphill battle to win for town.

Hey, my opinion ain't biased. It's just slightly more informed because I have access to the PT as well as the main thread (one of the many beauties of this game).

Meanwhile BM thinks I'm the "strong scum", the "hardest scum to catch", like no dude I'm just town. If you don't overcomplicate things trying to go after the "one scum nobody would suspect", we can be successful at actually lynching scum.

If you'd responded like this to the initial pressure, you might have got a bit more joy.

Pine told me himself that your PT is themed like a support group.

I know one other person remains from this group. Whomever that is, could you confirm this as well as possibly expand on it?

It's only me and ABR left from that, and I've confirmed that (from recollection, and because why would Pine lie). It doesn't mean anything though - MT's theory is that because it has the same theme which was used in 1 Saw film, everyone in the hood should be linked to that 1 film, whereas I believe Jigsaw Survivor could come from any film in the franchise.

@BM You're seriously misinterpreting me. The main thing holding me back from ABRs lynch is not the key. The key is an extra block added to the tower of reasons in my head for me not wanting to lynch him

See this is exactly what I felt was the case. It’s not the only thing but it

looked like it

because MT latched onto it in the way scum do.

So you think I would only use the key as an extra incentive not to lynch ABR if i were scum

(>﹏<) ok..

In reality, i feel theres no stopping BM's wrath at this point and i wanted to see if the key would convince BM to wait 1 extra day. cause i wanna lynch elsewhere

No stopping my wrath! It's a rollercoaster, and nobody wants to get off!

I seriously have no idea why you are so attached to ABR....

[Albert B. Rampage]

Votecount 1.13

Hectic (8) - momo, Albert B. Rampage, davesaz, Almost50, iDanyboy, Elsa Jay, xtoxm, Blake Belladonna
momo (5) - Hectic, Battle Mage, farside22, Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion
Drixx (2) - VaultDweller, Pine
xtoxm (1) - BBmolla
Battle Mage (1) - Vecna
BBmolla (1) - GeorgeBailey
Vecna (1) - Drixx
GuiltyLion (1) - Gamma Emerald
Pine (1) - Pisskop

Not voting (0)

(expired on 2020-05-01 15:10:00) remain until day end

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to reach a majority.

VaultDweller is V/LA through Tuesday, April 28.
Drixx is V/LA through Friday, May 1.

"You'd be surprised what tools can save a life."

Do you really believe that momo and I are the two scum voting Hectic here?

Of course not. It's blake/danny.

[Morning Tweet]

Oh also @Gamma

There are only 5 jigsaw acolytes that I know of: Gordon, Hoffman, Jigsaw, Amanda, and Logan. And there are 5 scum in this game.

Not enough scum flavour. So I do think it's a bit broken.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I seriously have no idea why you are so attached to ABR....

She wants the town to win obviously something which you are sabotaging. How do you not feel bad for yesterday?

You were wrong about xtoxm. You act like you were right this whole time after you singlehandedly mislynched xtoxm. Its because he insulted you so you didnt like him, same with me.

BM just trying to confbias anyone who he feels insults him.

[BBmolla]

ABR isn't a VT by his claim, he's a Neighbor.

Depends what "Role Madness" entails, if it's as SirCakez defined it, then ABR is plausibly what he claimed

[Morning Tweet]

No stopping my wrath! It's a rollercoaster, and nobody wants to get off!

I seriously have no idea why you are so attached to ABR....

I want off! help--!!!!!

[SirCakez]

MOD: Can you please confirm Momo was given a fake role as well as flavour?

No comment.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And don't let BM hold "secret PT knowledge" over your heads as an excuse to vote me.

I WAS THE ONE WHO SAID THE GAME SHOULD BE PLAYED IN THE GAME NOT THE PT. I only started posting in the PT after momo was lynched and I thought we were all town.

[Gamma Emerald]

(´-ω-｀) neither of them are scum gamma do not worry

Your key hasnt been used, ABR has never been tested

In light of Sircakez actions to keep the peace, I will remain so long as there are no more personal attacks, targeted harassment, or name-calling. I will exercise restraint in my criticism as well to be fair and equal. I'm under the impression that BM doesn't intend to derail the game with verbal abuse either. Let's carry on with renewed positive intents.

As far as I can tell you’ve been the one initiating the personal attacks, BM has just been reacting with a bit of a jovial “it doesn’t matter” tone that probably just comes off as aggressive. I’m not trying to besmirch you, just clearing the air. I think I’ve been on the giving and receiving end of that in the past.

Anyway I’m at where I came in so I’m okay to VOTE: ABR