Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Firebringer]

well ill lynch anyone who isn't BBmolla/EddieCane/ABR.

[pisskop]

Would you lynch Firebringer?

[Firebringer]

yea, he sucks ass

[Vecna]

You wouldnt lynch me FB

Lying dog

[Vecna]

WORSHIP SAINT INTERSTELLAR SHEEP

[Firebringer]

Vecna i bet u think ill townread u for scumreading me. Well ur only half right!!!

[Vecna]

I dont need your townread. I have this entire playerlist solidly pocketed

[Vecna]

but I appreciate the notion

[Firebringer]

jokes on u, sheeps dont even have pockets.

[Vecna]

DO SO

[GuiltyLion]

@ABR

As I said, I just played TM with Ank and we had a discord server with thousands of messages. I understand how she plays quite well I think now, and already read her fairly well. During the Large Theme she was town, town was in a similarly bad situation (I think actually on d3 too), and she was very apathetic and low content and wanted to replace. Tom and I had to talk her into staying. This game mirrors her apathy of that one fairly well imo - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81773 the content level is higher, but most of it is directly prompted by myself, as well as a bit of Tom and Dann. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=200 is the only scum game from Alyssa I'm familiar with firsthand, but her play there feels very different from here, with it being much more fluid and, well, good. This game is

also

different from her when I've normally seen her as town, but it fits with my image of how her brain scans games, and the apathetic replace out even from a null pov is more likely to come from town when town is losing. I've looked over her iso a few times, and there were a few specific posts that somewhat pinged town. One interesting thing I would note, is that as far as I can tell she lists momo as town in her big reads list (#512) (at a time momo was pretty widely town read I think, which in itself is fine), and did not really acknowledge his existence outside of responding to quotes from other people until she voted him in #1398. According to vcs this is around or slightly after when wagons swinged to momo, but I don't know gamestate at the time so maybe thats wrong. Ank seems like the kind of player to overly theater rather than not acknowledge partners, but I wish I could have questioned her on what changed (again - unless gamestate stuff I'm missing), or if the vc is deceptive and scum!ank just wanted to get in on the wagon before it inevitably went through.

As an aside,

I can tell you with absolute confidence that the way Momo acted towards ABR in that PT, is NOT the way scum acts towards a partner.

what...

I do not have her as my top tier of town, and would not object to her lynch like I would, say, Morning Tweet. On my first read after subbing in I thought she was pretty likely town, faded a bit as I got a lot of town reads, and tbh developed a stronger read on her while writing that post. But yea, I think being on a team with someone is even better than hydraing with them, because you actually get to see how they solve a game "on their own" rather than "with" you. After TM18 I didn't get Giga/Katy, JJ, nor Transcend (rip) wrong again

ever

as far as I remember. So to use less words (I get rambly at 5 AM after drinking lightly) I think Ank is town. She is not super town, but she is more likely town.

[Morning Tweet]

MT would be a good lynch. They're likely town though.

;﹏;

[davesaz]

Dave

decided not to

didn't get a chance to vote Momo

FTFY. Day 1 went from about L-4 to hammer while I was sleeping IIRC.

Day 2 started and ended without me even getting a chance to read. I want to scumread BM over that but it seemed like a perfectly reasonable case when I skimmed it. Today BM vs ABR turned me off completely. I hate 1v1s. I hate voting claimed PRs. I don't have any mechanical results that are +town to reveal.

You're absolutely right that I haven't done much. Where you're wrong is in thinking I'm scummy for that. I don't have much and I'm not going to try to push that "not much" over people who seem to have a decent idea of what to do. When I do have something (like Jigsaw's identity, that would be cool) I'll be all over it.

[GuiltyLion]

no, you specifically declined to vote Momo when you made that post and kept your vote on Hectic.

I don't care if you're turned off, if you're town you owe it to the rest of us to be transparent about your reads and who you'd like to lynch today. Why should we be townreading you if you are barely engaging with the game? How am I to look at your play here and discern that this is town!Dave and not scum!Dave?

[VaultDweller]

no, you specifically declined to vote Momo when you made that post and kept your vote on Hectic.

Quote please?

[Vecna]

I really want to solve this game, but theres just nothing to really work with here.

All that we can do is make weak ass assumptions based on the little that like 6 slots have given us

[BBmolla]

hi

why not morning tweet?

[BBmolla]

hi

why not morning tweet?

[Battle Mage]

Oh i guess i can save the anticipation of you coming after me for after your solve is proven false, then

It wasn't too long ago you declared it had already been proven false, but it's pleasing to see you backtrack here. Won't be long until you're in the palm of my hand!

i hope the 10,000 shades you've made on me over the course of this game don't factor into your case. they're quite weak

You don't seem to think it's proven false. A disfavourable flip would prove it false in your eyes, yes? do you even try to interpret things i say as anything other than scummy?

and you still haven't answered the emoji question. im getting grumpy about it >:(

10,000 is an exaggeration. If you were town, would you find it so difficult to be honest, and not resort to hyperbole?

Also they aren't really "shades" or "weak" - they are simply measured reflections of your inconsistent and unsubstantiated perspectives on the game as this day has developed. As I said on Day 1, there is something in the fact you are really struggling to find suspects you are willing to push, and you've only really pushed anybody after significant cajoling. I think you've acknowledged that that doesn't reflect well on you.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong - but I don't know yet, and if you're town, neither do you. But you have really floundered when responding to it - when you could simply have concluded, as others have, that my theory is possible but unlikely. Instead, you've tried desperately to persuade others, and maybe even yourself, that it's wrong, when that is factually incorrect. It's difficult for me to see why, as town you would:

A. Care so much about my theory, if you really think it's not close to the mark.
B. Go to great lengths to falsely claim that it cannot be right, when it could be.
C. Despite B, later acknowledge that it could be right, and thereby recognise that your previous assertions were all incorrect.

You've conceded that you don't have an actual mechanical reason (like an investigation or some such) for believing ABR is town, so I think your defence of him reflects poorly regardless of his alignment because it is incredible reachy, unsubstantiated, and has failed the consistency test abysmally.

I'm a gut-feeling sort of player really, and my gut still says you're town, but pretty much every time you post, including perpetually wittering on about your favourite emojis when nobody cares, I find it difficult to see a town motivation there. So I will absolutely point it out every time I see it, because it's part of the game to find scummy stuff, and maybe eventually the balance will tip and my gut read will change or I'll just come to the conclusion which seems to be an emerging consensus that there are worse lynches than you today.

That's my final word on it for now - I'm not going to get sucked into your preferred tactic of a long debate which leads nowhere and achieves nothing.

[Battle Mage]

I really want to solve this game, but theres just nothing to really work with here.

All that we can do is make weak ass assumptions based on the little that like 6 slots have given us

I wouldn't waste your time - I solved the game like 30 pages ago, and it didn't make a lick of difference

[Battle Mage]

Dave

decided not to

didn't get a chance to vote Momo

FTFY. Day 1 went from about L-4 to hammer while I was sleeping IIRC.

Day 2 started and ended without me even getting a chance to read. I want to scumread BM over that but it seemed like a perfectly reasonable case when I skimmed it. Today BM vs ABR turned me off completely. I hate 1v1s. I hate voting claimed PRs. I don't have any mechanical results that are +town to reveal.

A couple things:

1. It wasn't entirely my fault Day 2 ended before you could post. It was like 10 to lynch or something?
2. If you hate 1v1s and voting claimed PRs, maybe voting ABR is your best play.

[Battle Mage]

TBC, I'm not really townreading either of them, I just think resolving my neighborhood is literally the most important thing for this day phase and lynching outside of it is dumb.

I doubt the mod puts me in a neighborhood with another cop where I can't get any guilties. The living non inno'd people in my hood are BINGLE DRIXX EC DAVE.

Of those, Dave is the only one I don't think is town.

On the contrary, I'd suggest resolving your neighbourhood is literally the least important thing for this day phase, given it's the largest pool and it's not obvious that it has a higher proportion of scum than any other pool. So lynching in your hood is "dumb" to use your words.

[Battle Mage]

if there is a cop who can only investigate in their own hood, which has only 7 other people to start, does anyone really think there are more than 2 scum there? It's probably more like 1, otherwise it's a pretty powerful role in a game which is already chock-full of town PRs.

Just a hot take, as I do need a re-read to get to grips with who has claimed what...

[Battle Mage]

Something doesn't feel right with Pisskop. Noted mainly for my own benefit.

Please dont judge Fire based on his 'content' or 'contributions'

Wait did people change their minds and decide to out hoods fully now?

idk, but I was just about to come in and say I was sorry for not reading the last . . . 12 or so pages when an egosearch turns this up.

VOTE: unovte

Sorry bud, the ride stops here.

VOTE: abr

I have to give this a read. Im sorry guys

In other news, could somebody please post a list of everyone who has claimed, and what they claimed? If not, I'll do it myself later when I have time.

[GuiltyLion]

no, you specifically declined to vote Momo when you made that post and kept your vote on Hectic.

Quote please?

I've quoted it twice already:

I like the case on momo, but also place a high value on the power of competing wagons. Seeing Hectic struggle to find the case, which was very plainly stated by GL and by at least one person voting him, is entertaining at a minimum. It illustrates that he isn't truly reading and/or doesn't want to acknowledge it, and I think town would want to do both along with explicitly refuting it. I'll stay here but for the purposes of gauging wagon viability consider me willing to switch when needed.

re-examining Dave with fresh eyes in light of potentially town!Dany and town!Gamma, this feels a scummy excuse to stay on the Hectic wagon

I like the case on momo, but also place a high value on the power of competing wagons. Seeing Hectic struggle to find the case, which was very plainly stated by GL and by at least one person voting him, is entertaining at a minimum. It illustrates that he isn't truly reading and/or doesn't want to acknowledge it, and I think town would want to do both along with explicitly refuting it. I'll stay here but for the purposes of gauging wagon viability consider me willing to switch when needed.

and again, let's not forget that this is the reasoning why Dave decided not to vote Momo