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[Luca Blight]

What happened to the Ythan wagon again?

[innocentvillager]

essentially, what it boils down to for me is this:

-i want Titus wagoned, I've expressed some reasoning but it's too nebulous and not concrete enough, and I don't want to case her (im lazy, this is no one else's fault)
-so people are resisting this wagon in favor of a dgb wagon basically because she's been too... agenda-y and political this game ??
-i somewhat townlean DGB from tone
-other camp is people who have been statically on LLD most of the game, including people like Titus who i do not townlean
-i somewhat townlean LLD for the wifom wank but again it is wifom wank
-i don't think either of the "cases" are good
-Ythan started actually playing the game and had a townie reaction, so im also somewhat townlean that slot, and that wagon died down
-we need a yeet fucking ASAP
-more of my TLs are on DGB
-guess we go dgb oh well

that's my level of enthusiasm for the gamestate rn

[Luca Blight]

I'd be willing to vote Titus if you're up for it? I'm also not a fan of either of the main wagons.

The fact people are resisting a Titus wagon while willing to wagon Goofball for BS reasons should be a red flag in of itself.

[Luca Blight]

Also petapan (who apparently has some experience with Goofball) is confident they're Town as well.

[innocentvillager]

Titus wagon is too unrealistic unless someone that's not named mastina writes a convincing wall on her and I don't think im your guy

if you'd like to be the hero, be my guest

[innocentvillager]

1 day, 3 hours, 47 minutes

like we're not going from 0 to claim to discuss claim at this point we're so fucked out of time

this is a large, we have to make compromises even if it's begrudgingly

im gonna be a boomer and be whiny for no justified or productive reason but this is the exact scenario that i hate and scum take advantage of

[Luca Blight]

Lady Lambdadelta

(6): DrippingGoofball, Xtoxm, mastina, Hopkirk, Ythan, jjh927

DrippingGoofball

(6): Dunnstral, Cephrir, OkaPoka, Dannflor, Lady Lambdadelta, innocentvillager

Ythan

(4): Luca Blight, Titus, AGar, Bell

Bell

(1): Winter Flakes

OkaPoka

(1): Almost50

Just making some guesses about the purity of these wagons, the Ythan wagon doesn't look great right now tbh. I'm leaning slightly Town on AGar, but I'm not sure about Bell and I SR Titus.

The Lamb wagon ends with Hopkirk, Ythan and jjh927. I could definitely see scum existing in that group.

I'll admit the Goofball wagon looks fairly pure by comparison.

[innocentvillager]

a side note that if ythan-dgb-lld are all town that it doesn't really matter which wagon scum are on

[Luca Blight]

It doesn't make me feel good seeing two of the players I'm not sure about on vanity wagons at this stage.

[Hopkirk]

I was just messing with Ceph but you're an accrual clown.

if you're calling him bad at posting his accruals rather than accusing him of being a clown who hasn't been paid yet then this is going far too far in terms of acceptable insults in a game of mafia :/

Mastina's whole posting is mentioning various factors exist to determine Titus town from Titus scum and that I am not doing those things. It's an outright lie which is why she never details the factors. The closest she comes is quoting posts from another game and leaving people to draw their own conclusions.

I feel you, I hate this kind of case.

Titus is town, AGar is town.

Ythan? I say lean town.

why agar town?

what's the basis for the ythan wagon? i'm getting v similar vibes from last game from him

tbh it seems like a bit of a bail out wagon imo

i started suspecting him toward the end of the original game and i don't think he's diverged too far off of that this game which leads me to believe its TI

infinity agrees with this and doesnt think ythans play here would make sense for scum

ythan feels the same as last game, especially to after the time i briefly voted him, but i have no idea if it's an alignment indicative 'same' tbh

VOTE: lld

i don't get why agar was going nowhere but eh

Sorry hop i dont want to answer ur questions do i have to

Bell we have 2 days left. Nobody wants to flip ceph.

nah, i'll just lean worse on you for it

[Hopkirk]

My thoughts:

I like Dannflor's posts. I don't know if he posts in a way that I'd find different if he were scum. He feels good

Cephrir feels ok. Last game I was actually suspicious of him but didn't like how the wagon was forming around what seemed to be his thoughts of Mastina, this game I'm not really, except that he sometimes reverts to feeling unhelpful sometimes

Okapoka, I don't think he's that bad this game, or that different. He's just not as towny this go around which raises some eyebrows

Agar is towny, people just don't like his playstyle/posting style. Most people probably skim past his posts.

This feels like town Mastina due to the amount of energy she's able to put into whatever she is doing here, and she somehow feels different when she's scum, like she's acting in bad faith rather than just being tunneled

Xtoxm feels tonally different from the last game to a degree where they feel town this time. I think their push on lld is questionable given the reasons they laid out being, in my opinion, bad, especially when they showed they're able to case someone

The way Innocent Villager is treating me is weird. I thought they were fine but writing this out I think most of their posting is nullish and they deserve more scrutiny.

Hopkirk, I don't really know, one of my teammates thinks he's town. I don't find the case against him convincing, which leaves him at null but not towny

Winter Flakes is indeed blending into the background, and I'm also forgetting that they're in this game. I feel like last game they were a lot more involved.

Titus goes between towny and scummy. I like some of her posts, tonally, others not so much.

Ythan should probably get more scrutiny from me, he isn't doing anything, he's capable of doing stuff, he's being unhelpful for some reason. I don't have strong feelings about this flipping scum.

LLD - I think the case against them is garbage, which has been brought up several times but plowed through. I don't find them particularly towny though. I'm trying to work with them here. DGB is easily the scummier of the two which is why I'm not voting on LLD.

DGB is really scummy and different from last game. Numerous people have listed them as a strong townread but I don't think that has ever been well substantiated beyond LLD being scum (what if LLD isn't scum?). Why can't DGB and LLD both be scum anyway? That feels more likely that just LLD being scum to me

Luca Blight - Hercule was alright, I think. I don't have an opinion on what Luca has done

Bell - Predecessor felt kind of scummy, Bell feels kind of scummy

jjh927 isn't doing much, but at least he can point back to posts and his train of thought can be followed.

Almost50 is vaguely towny but I don't remember anything he's posted int he last week or so.

so you personally have me at pure null?
do you have other thoughts on winterflakes?
why town!agar here?
don't see DGB & LLD scum being likely at all since LLD wagon would have already gone through in that case is my vibe

maybe ythan doesnt need energy to angrypost but i still feel like being mean to other people is something that does not come is a natural thing you know

like you have to be motivated in some sense to start being a dick

if ur in thread just shitposting i mean its probably fun to mess around, angryposting is not inherently fun. who sits around in a voluntary game and just spends the thread shitting on other people while not doing anything themselves. like???

i mean it depends on the situation, like what if you felt like everyone around you was being dumb then you got drunk and angry posted? didn't think of that example did you?

AGar is likely to be town the more i think about it

i am fine removing him from my current PoE

pedit: can you pretend it didn't come from mastina and just address the idea in a vacuum

why?

isn't lld also known for powerwolfing though? that's my biggest holdup rn

so?

hot take i think we should vote for scum instead of town

finally, ceph is being bold enough to say something i agree with. keep it up and i might have to locktown you

disclaimer - i'm agreeing we should vote for scum over town, not with any specific reads. any reads presented by ceph are only the expression of said individual's thoughts

[Hopkirk]

dann let's go dgb?

VOTE: dgb

for the vibers?

so why did you jump up LLD for like 5 seconds exactly?

dann i look to you for salvation

idk im just gonna like sheep cephrir i guess

VOTE: dgb

when was the last time you considered whether ceph is pocketing you? i kind of like your stuff now but it feels like you're just siding with every wagon that isn't LLD and i don't like the way ceph is pushing those. can you explain more about your lld town?
what would your read of the game be like on an LLD scumflip?

lol i love this dgb is my top sr atm this aint a compromise this is a victory

so did you vote LLD on the last page thinking it could be DGB+LLD, or that if LLD is town she's less valuable to the town that town!ythan would be? or something else.

@Xtoxm: I don't think LLD is scum here. I've just finished a game with her and we were scum together. Ceph was there too (also Scum) and we both don't think this is scum!her.

In fact, I would have expected Scum!LLD to target me for the D1 elim bc she has a low opinion of me as a player and believes I'm easy to push (she even wanted me to hammer a claimed TR of mine in that game, which she acknowledged would be a scum claim, because she thought I was doomed anyway)

So, 2 reasons why I TR LLD: Her overall play/tone is unlike hers in that game, and her attitude towards me isn't what I would have expected from Scum!her after that game

did she play that game too and does she have a history of being completely inflexible in terms of play?
i can see some townie stuff in her play, but it's rooted in the context of the wagon on her and i think i'd like it more if she wasn't heavily under the spotlight and acting around that. the stuff about her hard pushing you doesn't make much sense? so far LLD has just pushed like 4 of the people wagoning her after she got wagoned.

like at what point does scum!lld getting wagoned decide to push you when you aren't wagoning her, because she's only been pushing (with votes, as far as i remember) people on her wagon

Hey guys, quick question:

IF someone says "hey, BoP me, kill the thing I want to kill and if it's town, fade me"

and they go "no we'll kill you instead you're scum"

and then all your pushes die and no one wants to do them

so you finally compromise on a vote you're not sold on but appears to be the only consolidation people will accept that day.

Is calling that a BoP bad faith?

More importantly, if it's not, at what point do the arguments that people are making finally stop being "oh they really believe this they're just dumb and wrong"

and become bad faith?

How many times can a player like Mastina and Xtoxm be corrected on an obviously false statement, only for them to get away with it because "oh they're town don't worry about it"

People have been complaining in this thread all day about how people push me without any real reason, and all given reasons are shot down.

And yet you will never finally say "oh hey these pushes might be in bad faith"

why? Like how many times do they need to say things that are obviously and patently false like "LLD is pushing DGB" and then make clearly bad faith inferences like "we should BoP LLD if DGB flips town" before we start asking if the inferences and statements are being made by scum?

I want an actual fucking answer.

do you mean your hercule push that you slowed on pushing, your xtoxm push, your Mastina omgus push, or your recent sheeping the ceph-crew?
like i've tried to engage with you recently but you're just continuing to side with players that seem like other scum and i don't get the pushes as it fells like you're just doing it to survive now and you're banking on their help. though that makes me doubt they're all scum

[Hopkirk]

but like every 24 hours we get a flash and then its like the simpsons bush gif

Notably.

The LLD wagon has remained a constant throughout the day through all of those.
The hercule wagon was a wagon that formed around the same time as the LLD wagon. While technically the LLD wagon was a counterwagon to the hercule wagon, the two wagons were dueling for quite a long time. It wasn't as if the sudden formation of the LLD wagon caused the hercule wagon to instantly collapse; it took days upon days for the hercule wagon to dissipate, so the hercule wagon I am counting as basically an LLD counterwagon.

There was a DGB counterwagon to LLD that formed.
There was a small Hopkirk counterwagon to LLD that formed.
There was a the worst counterwagon to LLD that formed.
There is the Ythan counterwagon to LLD that formed.
I'd call the Titus wagon to technically be a counterwagon to Ythan rather than a counterwagon to LLD, but technically the LLD wagon still being around at the time means that technically the Titus wagon counts as a counterwagon to LLD.

Am I forgetting any other wagons that have cropped up?

The LLD wagon has been consistent, and yet the entire game, there has been counterwagons to it to try and desperately prevent a D1 LLD fade.
While all of these wagons have town in them and many of them aren't driven by scum, there's been a fairly clear pattern in voting where scum were at minimum happy to let the counterwagons happen and in many cases supported them.

Ask yourself--how many of these counterwagons had strong pushback?
The hercule wagon? Maybe, especially from me, but that wagon lasted for a huge amount of time.
The DGB wagon? Who aside from me was pushing back against it?
The Hopkirk miniwagon? Nobody pushed against it that I can recall, altho I will admit that even I didn't mostly due to it being comparatively small.
the worst's wagon? I think that wagon had zero pushback to it.
Ythan's wagon? I'm the closest one to have given pushback to it and even I couldn't in good faith push back strongly against it.

The one and only counterwagon with any real pushback has been the Titus counterwagon.
Maybe because Titus is actually scum and scum don't want to save LLD by condemning Titus.

The fact that every non-Titus/LLD wagon has had basically almost no pushback should be a red fucking flag.
Whereas the LLD and Titus wagons have in common strong pushback against them.

what is your read of agar's terrible approach to me, considering this?
i'm talking about the 'hop is scum for saying herc was a counterwagon and trying to confuse us' which is clearly trying to justify a hop!scum read

[Hopkirk]

but like every 24 hours we get a flash and then its like the simpsons bush gif

Notably.

The LLD wagon has remained a constant throughout the day through all of those.
The hercule wagon was a wagon that formed around the same time as the LLD wagon. While technically the LLD wagon was a counterwagon to the hercule wagon, the two wagons were dueling for quite a long time. It wasn't as if the sudden formation of the LLD wagon caused the hercule wagon to instantly collapse; it took days upon days for the hercule wagon to dissipate, so the hercule wagon I am counting as basically an LLD counterwagon.

There was a DGB counterwagon to LLD that formed.
There was a small Hopkirk counterwagon to LLD that formed.
There was a the worst counterwagon to LLD that formed.
There is the Ythan counterwagon to LLD that formed.
I'd call the Titus wagon to technically be a counterwagon to Ythan rather than a counterwagon to LLD, but technically the LLD wagon still being around at the time means that technically the Titus wagon counts as a counterwagon to LLD.

Am I forgetting any other wagons that have cropped up?

The LLD wagon has been consistent, and yet the entire game, there has been counterwagons to it to try and desperately prevent a D1 LLD fade.
While all of these wagons have town in them and many of them aren't driven by scum, there's been a fairly clear pattern in voting where scum were at minimum happy to let the counterwagons happen and in many cases supported them.

Ask yourself--how many of these counterwagons had strong pushback?
The hercule wagon? Maybe, especially from me, but that wagon lasted for a huge amount of time.
The DGB wagon? Who aside from me was pushing back against it?
The Hopkirk miniwagon? Nobody pushed against it that I can recall, altho I will admit that even I didn't mostly due to it being comparatively small.
the worst's wagon? I think that wagon had zero pushback to it.
Ythan's wagon? I'm the closest one to have given pushback to it and even I couldn't in good faith push back strongly against it.

The one and only counterwagon with any real pushback has been the Titus counterwagon.
Maybe because Titus is actually scum and scum don't want to save LLD by condemning Titus.

The fact that every non-Titus/LLD wagon has had basically almost no pushback should be a red fucking flag.
Whereas the LLD and Titus wagons have in common strong pushback against them.

what is your read of agar's terrible approach to me, considering this?
i'm talking about the 'hop is scum for saying herc was a counterwagon and trying to confuse us' which is clearly trying to justify a hop!scum read

[Hopkirk]

also

Ythan's wagon shifting so suddenly to Titus with no resistance and no real actual reasoning other than the vibes brigade restarting their shenanigans should be fucking warning sirens for anyone and everyone.

No resistance? Not sure about that.

But resistance is fake anyway so eh

Resistance was the wrong word, yeah.

But we went from Ythan 8 to Titus 4 in a page with nothing revelatory from Ythan and it was just a naked vote where y'all just seamlessly moved. Big dislike.

stop trying to rewrite the narrative! using resistance when it's the wrong word? wtf. obvscum. you need to be very exact and just because someone could easily get your intent/point if they were reading objectively rather than reading with a goal (not that i have thoughts on this scenario) doesn't mean it's ok to use words that

could

mean something else in a different context, but not the context they're in where the meaning is incredibly clear

ah, good old parallels

(obviously this is meant to be sarcastic)

[Hopkirk]

roughly where i'm at

Town- DGB, Xtoxm, Mastina, Hercule
Townish- Jjh, IV
Idk I like a bit – A50, Dann, Winter Flakes (an alternative account of the user formerly known as uncrowned)
---
Idk which falls into poe- the worst
Idk which falls into poe for different reasons- Dunn
POE but being pushed by other people I feel meh on- Ythan, Titus
POE- LLD, Ceph, Oka, Agar

first three lines after the --- are roughly the same tier of idk atm

[Hopkirk]

it's weird seeing so many capital letters in my posts nowadays woah

[innocentvillager]

hopkirk i forgot you were in this game

[Hopkirk]

dann let's go dgb?

VOTE: dgb

for the vibers?

dann i look to you for salvation

idk im just gonna like sheep cephrir i guess

VOTE: dgb

how?!?

[Hopkirk]

that was obviously meant to be a one liner post responding to you IV

how does that even happen. i quoted those among other stuff like five posts ago with other quotes in between. that's pretty messed up for a quoting function

[Hopkirk]

you forgot i was here? that makes me feel sad

[innocentvillager]

i kind of want to lol!switch from dgb to lld

i forgot about how much i don't townlean cephrir so that is not a presence i care for on the DGB wagon

AGar is a vibe thing, posting has gotten better and more present lately i think, also feels more direct and substantive lately (but could be pushing an agenda). but im not sure about him rn

i asked @DGB for what SirCakez thinks about AGar here partly because he caught him as scum in AGar's most recent scumgame so im interested in hearing those thoughts

pedit: sorry hopkirk lol idk but tbf i kinda forgot you were in the last game too for some reason. maybe your posts just don't stick out enough? your avatar? lolool idk what it is your postcount is pretty high too

[innocentvillager]

cephrir is town because he mostly posts reasonable things and we occasionally "mindmeld" but much more importantly because dann is town and dann says cephrir is town is basically where im at there

[innocentvillager]

hopkirk this game is stressful lol idk what to do

[Hopkirk]

i kind of want to lol!switch from dgb to lld

i forgot about how much

i don't townlean cephrir so that is not a presence i care for on the DGB wagon

AGar is a vibe thing, posting has gotten better and more present lately i think, also feels more direct and substantive lately (but could be pushing an agenda). but im not sure about him rn

i asked @DGB for what SirCakez thinks about AGar here partly because he caught him as scum in AGar's most recent scumgame so im interested in hearing those thoughts

pedit: sorry hopkirk lol idk but tbf i kinda forgot you were in the last game too for some reason. maybe your posts just don't stick out enough? your avatar? lolool idk what it is your postcount is pretty high too

cephrir is town

because he mostly posts reasonable things and we occasionally "mindmeld" but much more importantly because dann is town and dann says cephrir is town is basically where im at there

uh, how's this meant to be read? did you switch on ceph between the two posts?

agar's vibes are terrible. if you forgot i was here then you probably haven't seen how bad agar's vibes are because they're terrible in relation to how he's posting about me. can you take a look and tell me what you think of his push?

oh so now my avatar doesn't stick out? wow. low blow IV, i thought we were pals...