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[DkKoba]

but ur scum

[Dwlee99]

No

[Dwlee99]

Koba on rep in: complex thought is the pinnacle of towniness

Koba now: won't read my posts

[Dwlee99]

If you think I'm scum then prove my case sucks or is made up. I'm trying to communicate with you to figure out where we differ because VFP and I were connected on a lot of thoughts throughout the game.

[DkKoba]

i cant even find ur case bc theres walls of posts of you justifying scummily acting around 3 flipped scum

[DkKoba]

andres case is cooler anyways

[Dwlee99]

Your slot derailed a speedlim on Titus but okay koba

[Dwlee99]

Now that doesn't look good for me because we agreed on it, but like if I knew who I shouldn't defend because they're evil this wouldn't be mafia.

[Dwlee99]

But I also peeled your slot off of Cyrus and Anya day 2, and Gamma (who is town if you think I'm scum) day 3.

[DkKoba]

why chaos over kyouko fypov

[Save The Dragons]

what's the case on dwlee

[DkKoba]

andres laid it out, iso him

[Dwlee99]

I think Kyo's associatives are better with Titus/other scum. Chaos vote parked scum which is cool but is more indicative of bussing than actual cases and pushes (which Kyo did). I also have townread Kyo on play most of the game, whereas Chaos has felt null to me the entire game. I also think that Chaos' case on me is in bad faith, and since getting to E-1 he has resorted to sniping from the sidelines. He also said there was nothing to respond to in a large swathe of posts and said all I was saying was "nu-uh" when it had reasons to scumread him in there.

[Save The Dragons]

i did and didn't find it

[Dwlee99]

What do you want me to respond to? So far it's me making points against you and you going nuh-uh.

Nope, I'm clearly just scum not answering you on purpose. I'm also so bad as scum that I would leave Gamma alive to clear people and not just kill him N3, because if he dies, I can just coast pushing T3, Andres, getting town cred on Titus, manipulating StD since he's barely paying attention to this game it seems like, instead of flipping my push to target you with no support while not being on my supposed partner's lim and looking like dogshit. I don't know why you're just solidly townread because you post a million times. If I was scum who played this bad up to this point and got myself here, I would have self-hammered already, I have no way to win this.

Koba shouldn't claim, this is just something to act like you're talking about something important while keeping the game state the same and making my lim inevitable.

If you're going to ask why they shouldn't claim, they don't have results that would end the game or they would have claimed already. In which case, no reason to give the scum more information, their role being unknown is not hurting town right now at all.

First post is bad (read context to see what I said before he said it)

Second is saying he would selfhammer as scum and I feel like that is 1.) BS cause it's playing against win con as only scum and 2.) Is just always scummy.

Third is just snipey and lashing out.

[Save The Dragons]

found it

[Save The Dragons]

not feeling dwlee sorry

[Dragon of the West]

StD, what's your PoE right now?

[ChaosOmega]

Also just to comment on people scumreading me I feel like my interactions with flipped scum are very indicative of my alignment:
1.) Titus pushed me in the Me/Peta 1v1
2.) Nero caught nom trying to push me for terrible reasons
3.) I took VFP's side in the VFP/Nom 1v1
4.) I pushed through the elimination on Osuka over Anya
5.) While scum doubted Cyrus' claim, I believed it and not only said he was definitely town, suggested policy eliminating Titus to turn Cyrus into a vigilante
6.) Killed Titus yesterday over looking to eliminate Gamma

1.)
Bullshit. This is Titus from page 7:

Titus did you start townreading me or just start scumreading peta more?

Scumreading peta more. I'm in a state of conflict with you two. I am scumreading you both yet you both shouldn't be scum together. So that means I am wrong somewhere. Having wagons on you both lets me assess you both at the same time.

You might think it's dumb that I'm quoting something all the way back from page 7, but ask Dwlee for evidence to support their point. I go over Titus' posts with Dwlee in 4055 if you want more context.

2.)
Assuming this is what you're referring to:

btw

@nom

what does DW voting rathe mean?

As I see it he's more than happy to push another wagon instead of pursuing the 1v1, either out of genuine interest for pushing rathe or because he's trying to go away from that 1v1, which scum!dw would be happy to do in that position

LMFAO!

You sat there and argued you need to see if they (DW and t3) would vote Rathe after calling Rathe scum and your take away is that he's scum b/c he joined another wagon. What would it mean if DW didn't vote Rthe?

Not sure why this makes you so town. Let's add the additional context where Nero says this makes nom scummy and then you defend nom and try to pivot to Rathe:

I think that nomnomnom got literally nothing out of me voting for Rathe. Hence the "Dwlee could have done it as town or scum for different reasons :thonk:"

????

i think nom is just scum and his whole "i need to see if DW/t3 vote rathe!" was scum that was trying to look busy and then calling you scum when you voted Rathe like he wanted you to do feels like a pre-planned response. I don't think he ever had good intentions here.

"either of out of genuine interest" (town!Dwlee) or
"because he's trying to go out of the 1v1" (scum!Dwlee)
415 is functionally saying nothing.

I think if it was preplanned like that he would have tried to push me for it sooner instead of waiting for you to ask about it.

idk man, it's like your wagon is dying and if nom wanted to push your wagon he'd have to stick his neck out and I'm not sure he'd do that

But then what even is the plan you're suggesting? He made a plan to call me scum when he didn't want to do it? 415 isn't even calling me scum, it's functionally saying he got nothing out of it.

he gave a nice clean fence sitty response and it makes it seem like he never really had a purpose to see if you and t3 voted rathe.

I'm saying it's scum busy work. He made a big hubbub about wanting to see if you'd vote Rathe and when you do vote Rathe its either b/c you were genuine or you were trying to get out of a 1v1 that you were winning anyways and it just falls flat to me. There's no conclusion and I don't think there was any purpose to it other than maybe breaking up the peta wagon.

So you think he is a possible buddy for peta? What if rathe is evil though and we get him?

On another note wrt the neighborhood, I don't think we should touch the neighborhood for now.

3.)
Oops all quotes!

Like I reread your post a few times and I'm not even sure what you're accusing me of lol
The thing I noticed with this whole dw/peta thing when rereading is that it feels like a lot of slots are cruising by using that interaction and I'm starting to go with the theory that dw/peta was TvT and the scum must be elsewhere
I just think there are higher chances for both of them to be town especially seeing how they handled all of their interactions
There are much more suspicious ISOs in there, and slots that deserve more scrutiny

You compare me practically not pushing T3 and deciding from a conversation directly to T3, to you voting, pushing and having Dwlee as scum. When you're voted up for it, you suddenly re read and just soft town. You were pushing Dwlee as scum, You changed from scum to town on the SAME posts Dwlee made. There's a huge difference.

I first thought DW could be scum because of how he handled his situation with peta and nero, got some tunnel vibes into peta + trying to pocket nero by asking him a bunch of questions since nero was/is the most adamant peta poster, I got that impression when he joined on Nero's weirdo logic to try and discredit me so I thought the slot was somewhat scummy and trying to strengthen his position in the game.
When rereading I saw that dw had some thoughts about other things in this game (some player movements, some reads, etc) so yeah, despite the insistence on going hard on peta there is content out there that points to town!dw. I thought a bit about the wider scope of this game and since this is a large where scum can easily cruise by (and I suspect that's what's happening) it's probably more likely that scums are trying to leverage the dw/peta situation (I believe peta is town too) and hide that way, which points to a bunch of different people, two of these people being T3 and std who have both voted there and whose isos, as I pointed out, are clearly fishy.
Does that answer your question?

Not really. That wasn't really detailed but more so posting words together.
There's nothing in this other than you tunneled, you re read and saw you were wrong, scum is T3 / STD.
You also focused more on the scum read than the town read, when originally you implied a town read was the part to explain. Thus still makes your town read plus this reasoning to be fake.

You know what, I just lost a game to STD so I wanna see where this goes
VOTE: STD

(Seems unrelated, but Dwlee looks to be trying to derail pressure off of nom here with this vote right after VFP/nom exchange, and nom is voting StD as well at this point.)

Ironically STD is also a pretty safe vote. I mean, minimalistic playstyles are pretty easy to scum read. I'll give you that STD hasn't been as active as he was last game and his explanation is likely true regardless of alignment. So not a huge fan of 702.

Derek12-saves a replace
Andresvmb-lurking and useless
Dunnstral-lurking and useless
nomnomnom-WTF posting and scummy
Titus-lurking and scummy
petapan-bad and scummy
Dragon of the West-a lil' scummy


I'd be ok lynching any of these slots

lol

VOTE: nom

Nero can you pick a different person from your list to vote? Not feeling this one.

Dwlee - if you're ignoring the neighbors, give a few specific players you're looking to push.

One of the lurkers I think is our best bet. There are enough of them that I wouldn't be surprised if most of the game has just been town yelling at each other.

can you get specific as to who you see as lurking, just curious

Save The Dragons -more active but kind of lurkingish
Derek12
Andresvmb
Dunnstral

Okay on second thought maybe there aren't quite enough of them but if we buy Nero's "titus is active lurking" claim then there are a lot of them.

what are your thoughts on Titus and why did you never give your thoughts on nom?

I think the thing about Titus active lurking is kinda meh and I don't like the pre-flip associatives otherwise. I likewise just don't feel strongly on the nom stuff. Nom's posting feels good enough to me on a tonal read

If I agree with the mis rep, I'll vote with you. Just to give you motivation here.

I find this sort of thing strange @nero

VOTE: Nom

Oh wait I switched to nom
VOTE: DGB
Sorry VFP

(I didn't edit out posts made by Dwlee here trying to support their vote on nom. All of their posts between these 2 are trying to defend Titus or pushing DGB. I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.)

4.)

Why would I throw Osuka out a window and then try to pivot to Anya the next day if I'm evil? The only reason I had even ended up acquiescing to an Anya wagon is because 1.) STD had a clear claimed on him and 2.) The "masons" were calling for her head constantly.

Did you do anything to eliminate osuka other than literally be a vote on his wagon? I think I've read somewhere about scum jumping on when a partner is being eliminated to get towncred, I'll need to put my thinking cap on.

If the only two options were StD and Anya, this would be a good point, but they weren't, so it's not. And who gives a shit what DGB and DotW thought? Having them be "masons" means don't lim them, not trust their reads. All your conflict with DGB in the game doesn't make me feel like you trusted their reads regardless.

I literally started the Osuka wagon by going around asking people what they thought of Osuka's slot and if they'd be willing to vote there.

And then you jumped off when there was traction in 2663, waited 2 days, saw it was inevitable, jumped back on in 2738, and make a case in 2759, way past the point of mattering or trying to convince people since the lim went through less than 15 posts later in 2772.

They said the unvote was because of apathy. A, I don't believe that, and B, even if that's true and they were super apathetic, why not do nothing (leave vote on osuka) instead of doing something (unvoting)?

5.)
Here are the people who doubted Cyrus:

Yeah I don't buy it then.
Let's lim cyrus

That's it. So this is just not true. And someone else said to lim Titus for that as well:

Now this is kind of crazy but if we want to we could mech-yeet Titus to make Cyrus into just a vengeful vigilante and leash his kills.

I'm on board with this. I believe the claim mainly because it's a fucking batshit claim to make up. If the claim is true, vig makes him conf-town and gives us a 2nd kill until he's killed.

So maybe you don't think it's as town-confirming as you say.

6.)
Yes, let's specify yesterday so you don't have to go into how you hard-defended Anya D2 and chose them as the lim D3 over Titus, that would make your defense of yourself look less good. Even still, this is a lie to say you didn't look to lim Gamma. Yes, you ended up on Titus, but let me do one more quote-spew here (All of these quotes are from D4 since that's what you think makes you look the most town):

Yea mech-play says kill the cop before ELO. Not really liking our odds if this flips town but there aren't many other options.

VOTE: Gamma

VOTE: Gamma

I feel like people are going along with me too much/too easily. My reads this game have been garbage don't blindly follow me because I'm conftown

I feel like people are going along with me too much/too easily. My reads this game have been garbage don't blindly follow me because I'm conftown

I am not. I am following you based on my independent strategy analysis. If Gamma flips town, scum night kills are largely dictated onto low influence players. If he flips scum, it gives a boatload of associatives. I don't see a downside to flipping Gamma.

I don't even know if you have reads to be going along with. It seems like it is just the mech thing and if you've looked at it and came to the conclusion that a gamma yeet is the best mech play then I trust that.

Alright well, let's get this over with then. VOTE: Gamma

L-1

So the wagon is Choas, Titus, Dwlee, T3, DotW.

Yeetus
VOTE: Titus

VOTE: Titus

One thought is that nom saying I was scum for voting Rathe is kind of chainsawy, which could indicate partners. I could also just see Osuka/Nom(Vax) aggressively distancing. I noticed Vax and Osuka getting into a little read debate at one point.

Okay so are we still going with killing rathe here. I'm gonna try to look for Rathe crumbing the PT cop result.

I was in that game but I was dead. VOTE: Titu

I still don't see why scum!Titus/Andre leaves gamma alive.

I think Gamma is scum and scum are feeling trapped if he flips.

VOTE: Gamma
This just doesn't feel like town!gamma to me.

Titus I can totally see you being town here especially given the FIA WRC game that just ended I'm just like, confused kind of. And my biggest fear here is that the reason I keep getting into these mental ruts is a false assumption on my town reads.

...

Okay so who does that leave me with? It leaves me with Titus, Andres, Chaos, and Kyo. Assuming what I read into partner interactions is correct (no Titus/Andre and no Titus/Chaos) then I'm really left with 2 of {Andres, Chaos, Kyo} or {Titus, Kyo}. Are there any parts of my analysis that don't hold up?

Pedit: I'll respond to that soon™

Ugh but Kyo/Titus doesn't make sense either and this is where I descend into some confusion. Kyo also was pushing nom at some point so that's odd. I kind of want to start townreading Andre but I can't quite explain why.

(These 2 posts combined are meant to push away from Titus saying that there's no one she makes sense as partner with.)

I know I posted a lot of words but I'd like thoughts on my recent analysis of the game in 3888 and surrounding ones.

I know I posted a lot of words but I'd like thoughts on my recent analysis of the game in 3888 and surrounding ones.

(They also really want you to read it so you stop pushing Titus.)

titus is just scum here

titus is just scum here

+1

Who does she make sense as partners with?

Yes, Dwlee was voting Titus at the end of the day, but they fought it and tried defending her multiple times.

[Dwlee99]

It's funny when you leave out posts from your quote chain that don't fit your narrative, like this

Alright well, let's get this over with then. VOTE: Gamma

L-1

Chaos' progression on Gamma looks sus to me, I dont think we have to lim Gamma today. Rathe is simply not scum with osuka

UNVOTE:
I was this conversation to happen.

votecount 4.3

Gamma Emerald (4) :

Titus - ChaosOmega - T3 - Dragon Of The West

Exe-2

ChaosOmega (1) :

ssbm_Kyouko

Andresvmb (1) :

Gamma Emerald

Titus (1) :

Save The Dragons

Not voting (3) :

Andresvmb - VFP - Dwlee99

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2021-07-20 15:38:30)

, with 10 alive, it takes 6 to slap someone

annoncements

prodding andresvmb

flavor

summary : Animations (huge violence warning)
would recommend? - nah

What about Titus is she town?

I think we just go Titus.
Scum killing Nero show either a threat there or setting up Titus more. However, I don't think they target Nero as a protective PR, meaning that this wasn't a consideration when killing and most likely means Titus is lying.

VOTE: Titus

why would titus kill nero

i don't think nero is a kill titus would never make but i just want to see more from her today instead of jumping to a conclusion

i agree, im not saying nero is a kill titus never would make. i'm just saying it's also a kill that, if titus is town, scum still couldve made for that exact reason

I don't like these vibes really.

@Osuka Post Dunn flip? I don't see what would make it change. I like your point on vaxkiller and I'm fine throwing that slot out the window if we have to. I still think t3 is a good wagon and I want to say there though. Here are some of my thoughts on t3 summarized:

I don't like how T3 seems to be playing both "sides" of the game here, questioning the DotW + DGB + Titus town block claim but then voting with them on Anya is super weird. I also feel like his absence in light of the claim from Anya + wagon on him is weird, like he is hoping he can just pretend to have been gone and leave his vote there and conveniently avoid the wagon along with it. I know t3's playstyle is kinda like it has been this game, but I think trying to lurk through pressure is super scummy and made even worse by the fact that he is voting a slot that claims town power role and who I believe. If we could force t3 back into the game at least to lock him into a claim that would be great.

I was asking does the majority of the game consider dotw titus and dgb a townblock.

Vax/DGB/Titus and I think Petapan

I need to read more dotw. T3, I feel like your quieter this game, any reason why?

I'm not on on peoples town lists yet prolly, but I will be.

Does Vax not put any of his scum partners in their town block?

VOTE: Titus

[Dwlee99]

If you were acting in good faith you would at least note that I un E-1'd Gamma there, and brought up Titus and reasons to scumread her. You could still make your argument because I did vote Gamma later on even after my quick case, but you purposefully omit context to make me look as bad as possible

[Dwlee99]

If I kept my vote on Gamma at that moment, he stays E-1. DotW wanted it, you wanted it, obviously Titus did, and T3 was sheeping DotW.

And if he stays E-1, the day almost certainly ends in his elimination instead of Titus, because VFP was ready to hammer there.

[ChaosOmega]

You act like that's a gotcha or something. Yes, you're not like a cartoon character always making posts that are scummy because you're scum. You tried to look more town there with the jump off and discussion, but tried to railroad it right back to Gamma after the slightest wagon on Titus forms and defended her slot multiple times. That's why I quoted the votes for Titus there, to show as soon as she got votes, you were right there to suggest someone else.

[ChaosOmega]

And you jumped right to 6, any response to 1-5?

[Dwlee99]

1.) Titus was pushing both sides of the 1v1, which Nero correctly pointed out makes sense that if Peta and I are TvT for her to do that.

2.) Yes and we have been over why I didn't agree with Nero there multiple times at this point. It was scummy because it wasn't actually doing any solving (which I realized later), whereas Nero was saying that calling me scum looked planned. I still don't know think that's true.

3.) I took VFP's side but that I ended up switching wagons is not remarkable at all given many flipped town or confirmed town did the same thing. Other alive players that we don't know the alignments of also did this. Andres said Nom was town. I think t3 and STD thought VFP v Nom was TvT. DGB had the thought process of "This looks like bussing but I'm not going to vote Nom anyway" which is actually terrible. I'm don't think DotW thought Nom was scum there. You would have to kill half the player list for this if you thought it was that scum-indicative.

4.) We have been around this in circles but yes I did more than just be a vote on the wagon. I started it and begged people to unvote Anya. Unvoting Osuka there was because I was unconfident in my reads. I say at some point "just don't kill Anya today." And I said this before but if I was trying to bus for towncred I would have just buried Osuka. I would have known he would flip scum and would just hard push it through because it would give me more cred. Carefully considering his alignment is not scummy.

Voting off Anya D3 was a mistake, but I think a natural consequence of "there can be a mafia announcing voyeur" and "fake claiming neighbor when there is a PT cop looks awful."

5.) I thought Vax also said he thought the Cyrus claim was fake but maybe I misremembered.