Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[TTTT]

we owe Luck the courtesy to review his case on Somnus

Started working through the isos of people not in my town pile, planning to do everyone, but found scum before I finished my list

BigTerp

Did not like his entrance 101/102/108 - discussed before

Most of his iso feels empty. Like so much of it is talking about whether or not we should be talking about prior games, that it is completely overshadowing any thoughts he might have about this game - which is kinda ironic tbh.

The things that give me pause are 207 and 251 because they are exactly my reactions to those same posts [see 291 and 300 from my own iso. Like eerily similar to the point where I might have suspected him mirroring my posts if his did not come before mine lol.

Somnus

Reading his iso, his first 22 posts say nothing at all. That is a lot of posts to make, for it to say nothing.

There is a latch onto BigTerp's entrance [135 136 139 147 156 172 186 (in spoiler below)] - then more nothing posts [140 148 149 154] before a "prod vote"

This is scum.

Post 187 / Iso 34 ---- He is at prod votes, with no thoughts or reasons. Even looking at his interactions with BigTerp - no hint at thinking that BigTerp is scum making up a reason to scum read him.

Spoiler:

Sorry, hit submit with my fat thumb before I finished my thoughts.

I've got furtiveglance as a town lean, but am a bit confused with post #92. Are you claiming Town Cop there?

Somnus leaning scum is just an early gut feel.

VOTE: SOMNUS

In 92 I was joking about the tags under our usernames.

Gotcha. Although joking like that can create confusion. Who likes confusion in a game or Mafia? SCUM!! I've still got you as a town read though, for now.

Speaking of confusion, the first page or two had a lot of talk about a previous game or 2. Seems like a few of you were already in a game together, which is fine. But talk that like, again, is prime for causing confusion. Further cements my thoughts (scum lean) on Somnus and raises my eyebrow towards TTTT.

Welcome but like...this is such a weird post. I pointed out in my first post that there were a lot of players from newbie 2088 in this game. Then furtive and TTTT very briefly asked about my other game I played on here in which I was scum. I guess in your world I should have just ignored their questions?

Sorry, hit submit with my fat thumb before I finished my thoughts.

I've got furtiveglance as a town lean, but am a bit confused with post #92. Are you claiming Town Cop there?

Somnus leaning scum is just an early gut feel.

VOTE: SOMNUS

He made a joke about being mafia role cop and you’re asking if he hard claimed town cop? Am I reading this correctly? I’m having a hard time believing you legit misread things in your catch-up this much.

Yeah. Like I’m cool with the vote on me, but the logic used behind it, as well as the immediate town-read on furtive (not a shot at furtive, btw) for the exact same thing is absurd. Not to mention thinking that furtive hard-claimed town cop less than 24 hours into the game after jokingly stating he was mafia role cop. Enough about power roles. This is a bad idea.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Discussing previous games is unproductive, IMO. Understanding players experience level is a different story and something that is helpful. No need to discuss how someone played previously as Mafia, or vanilla town, etc. though.

So TTTT and furtive get a scum-lean for asking me about my previous scum-game then, correct? And I'd get a town-read if I ignored their questions and told them it wasn't productive? Like...lol what even is this logic.

Hoping to hear more from lukewarm, Mr Turtle, and Pimpest (as well as for marcistar to join) so I have a complete roster to make initial reads of.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Discussing previous games is unproductive, IMO. Understanding players experience level is a different story and something that is helpful. No need to discuss how someone played previously as Mafia, or vanilla town, etc. though.

So TTTT and furtive get a scum-lean for asking me about my previous scum-game then, correct? And I'd get a town-read if I ignored their questions and told them it wasn't productive? Like...lol what even is this logic.

It was something to get things moving for me early day one. It just seemed odd, as I'm not used to so much discussion about previous games, especially when it directly effects the current game. Maybe it's just that things have changed in that respect since I last played. But especially for a newbie game, I don't see how it's productive. And I certainly am not going to dig back through previous games to try and gain Intel.

That's fine if you choose not to dig through people's ISOs from previous games.

You know what else gets things moving early in Day 1? Discussing people's experience/play-style.

Lukewarm, if you think I'm playing differently it could be because this is a new game. The first 100 posts had a more jokey/relaxed feel. You should also bear in mind that this is my second game on the site so my playstyle is not yet formed.

Exactly. There were 4 of us here (5 if you include Luke's 1 post) when the game started and we were mostly joking around, as well as me answering questions about the only other game I've played on-site. So I don't understand this notion that I haven't said anything game-related. Everything I've said after the first 12 hours after the game started has been game-related.

Hilariously, asking those questions apparently got you town-read, but answering them got me scum-read because logic.

BigTerp's entrance is "weird" - not scummy.

Like I’m cool with the vote on me, but the logic used behind it, as well as the immediate town-read on furtive (not a shot at furtive, btw) for the exact same thing is absurd

The "logic used behind" the vote on him is "absurd" but never questioned as scummy / fake.

His whole reaction feels more like scum who thinks they are catching flak for rediculous reasons, then a townie trying to sort through to determine BigTerp's alignment.

-----

I will keep doing the other people to give a full reads list, but I am happy with

VOTE: Somnus

[TTTT]

Well mafia use townreading as a tool to get towncred, I wouldn't put much stock by it. TTTT do you townread Somnus? I have said many times they are my number one suspect.

I've been back and forth on Somnus
still re-reading
I'll let you know when I'm done

[TTTT]

this was an underrated post from Terp. Alianna was very easily convinced to put Marci at E-1:

Alianna, since I have you here
who you gonna vote for?

At the moment, I'm debating on that. Marci is my strongest scumread, but I have no idea if it's a good decision to put her at E-1.

Will respond more fully tomorrow but if you’re implying that 198 contributed to my voting you, it didn’t.

I'd be interested to hear what contributed to you putting Marci at E-1. Other than you saying they are you scummiest read and TTTT sort of encouraging it, you haven't laid out much reasoning for that vote at all. Has anything changed since this post https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13285373? It was 5 pages and 2 IRL days ago. You don't seem to be providing much analysis in the game, but rather popping in here or there with a few word response that lacks a lot of context and then making a, IMO, pretty big move by putting Marci at E-1. I'm not against an E-1 here, but you're vote getting it there sticks out to me.

[TTTT]

just wanna remind everyone that my dead BFF said this...

@marci
is 2061 your only Newbie scumgame?

you two played as a hydra in a game that ended barely a month ago
so that's one reason I don't love the mutual null reads

I am ready to town lock TTTT all the way to Elo (where obviously he should be reconsidered if he is alive at that point) for this.

I never see this much meta work from Scum unless they are desperate. There is no reason for Scum TTTT to be digging through Marci's past scum games here, or whatever he did to find our hydra game either.

[furtiveglance]

Disgusting self-interest. Acknowledge that Somnus is scummy. This is your last chance to bus for towncred

[TTTT]

I didn't realize Somnus had made bad colored comments inside the quote in 471
and I like a lot of it

[TTTT]

Disgusting self-interest. Acknowledge that Somnus is scummy. This is your last chance to bus for towncred

relax
I'm still reading

[TTTT]

this Turtle post comes after an absence of pages and pages with nothing from him
and it's a long post about something that nobody in the game at the time cares about
totally irrelevant to the E-1 on marci or anything else happening

Spoiler:

I've decided to ISO Lukewarm to see if I was able to move them out of my null range.

Regarding marcistar

: During the first twenty four hours of the game, Lukewarm pretty much waits for her to show up (11, 77 & 157) with the reasoning that she is "easiest to read in the very start of the game, before she has found her footing". What I don't like about this is that they barely do anything and it feels as though they are hiding behind said reasoning to not do anything. Having someone to meta read at the beginning of the game makes it easier to "get into" the game so to speak, but it's also an easy way for scum to look busy. Then Luke has a bit of a back and forth of friendly banter with marcistar (160 & 164) and paired with their hyper-focus regarding their interactions with her (162 & 282), I deem them unlikely to be mafia partners. Note that when 164 was posted, 7 out of 10 posts in Luke's ISO had explicitly mentioned, quoted or been about marcistar. Later, Luke starts defending marcistar based on meta reads (286 & 299), claiming that most of her lack of vote and joke scumfession were NAI. In 294 they post their first concrete read on marcistar as "null scum". To me, this progression seems a bit messy, which I rate as being more likely towny than not. In 313, Luke voices his distaste with the E-1 vote, something which I also see as towny. They then make a non-read on marci by saying that they "want to hold off comitting to a read on her" and place them in their null range (317 & 318). Furthermore, Luke cements marcistar's null position by defending their retracted vote and subtly defending her (347, 348 & 352). I like Luke trying to slow the thread down on the marcistar wagon, it doesn't strike me as benefiting the mafia. 396, 399 & 400 are used to defend marci once again based on their scum reads, however Luke backtracks a bit by saying "I don't think that this is a slam dunk Marci is town case". I am not overjoyed by the hedginess on marcistar since a lot of Luke's posts have been used defending her. The hedginess is continued in 412, the posts 413, 414, 415 & 419 are meta dives into marci's past games, but Luke admits that he doesn't have any reliable meta tells and thus marcistar stays in the null range.

Conclusion

: Lukewarm spends a lot of time and posts semi-defending marcistar by dismissing many reasons for scum reading her as NAI while staying null throughout the entire game (minus the occasional "maybe town" or "maybe scum" comment). What makes me dislike the null read especially is the fact that I count 25-30 posts made that more or less directly have to do with marci in a 70 post ISO. With that being said, I don't think that Luke can be mafia if marcistar is. No-one enters the thread and spends a third of their posts on their scum buddy. Overall, I rate Luke's interactions with marci as lean town for them. If marci is town, I'm going to scrutinize Luke some more. Outside of the associative reads, I understand that Luke latches on to the player they best know to post about. This is something I would do as well. However, I'm a bit disappointed that the reads always end nullish.

General thoughts

: On the other hand, the rest of Luke's ISO has been quite towny since their reappearance 281. I don't want to dwell on this as long as the Luke-marci interactions, but I have a couple comments here as well. What stuck out to me the most was Luke not going with the flow. When Luke reemerged at 281, their reads were independent from thread consensus. Multiple reads lists had been posted, it would have been really easy to simply "copy" them without having anyone really bat an eye. But Luke didn't, instead they scum-cased Somnus and placed a scum lean on BigTerp in 316. The lock-town on TTTT also doesn't benefit scum!Luke (420). As mafia, Luke would want to either
a) push for TTTT to get lynched, or
b) night-kill TTTT without having a strong connection tied to the kill.
But by putting TTTT as their highest town, scum!Luke wouldn't be able to do a) or b) without receiving suspicion. The fact that Luke town-locked TTTT without having pressure on them to do so makes me feel better about them.

Conclusion

:

I'm comfortable with putting Luke as a town read

. What Luke lacks in towniness regarding their marcistar read they make up with their other posts. Particularly if marci turns out to be mafia it will make me more confident in my Luke read. They have just had a towny thread presence in this game.

[TTTT]

I cheered that post in 514
but in reading it now it's totally out of place

[TTTT]

and his next post is just theory 520
is he gonna say anything about the marci elim?

[TTTT]

Hi Everyone

,
I'm the new replacement, replacement.

It seems I'm in the awkward situation of replacing into a town slot that looks pretty scummy. Although I think a lot of the scum reading of Alianna wasn't for valid reasons, there were some accusations of not advancing the game and not giving enough reads but I think that's honestly just because she is a new player and wasn't sure how to read the game.

I have played mafia before but mostly IRL and when I have played online it's been with people I know IRL which makes it way easier to read them so this is new for me.

I'm currently formulating a reads list for the game but it's taking a while.

LOL

[TTTT]

Goldie
I'm not expecting a novel
don't really wanna read one
just your thoughts on each player
I'd prefer you write up posts as you are catching up, rather than making one or two giant walls
not only is it easier to read, but it makes it easier to follow your thought process as you read the game

this advice was totally ignored btw

[TTTT]

This was Goldie's big catchup post with reads
it's bad
very little is commented on that happened prior to Goldie replacing into the game
is this the post of a replacement player who read the whole game while trying to legitimately sort players?
(no it is not)

Spoiler:

I'm not sure we should Eliminate Marcistar yet UNVOTE: Marcistar

@Goldie
we need your thoughts soon
like within a few hours of this post

Here are some thoughts (sorry I know you didn't want a wall of text):


Tentative reads (I don't trust all these yet):
Mafia:
Somnus : really active but not contributing much, seems like active lurking
Marcistar: reasons I already described, also at the beginning they kept asking for reads but weren't contributing anything, I think that asking questions isn't scummy however it really looked like Marci was trying to look like she was pushing the game forward but not having to contribute or just looking for someone else's reads to latch onto. However I'm not certain She's scum anymore.
PPP: something is very off about their posting, they seem desperate to get somnus voted off, I wonder if it is a bus.

Everyone else seems pretty town-ish but there is nobody I completely trust.




And some other stuff:

Also though, Dino's tenure in the slot was individually kinda bad

.

Could you Explain this please; Dino made 1 post about there being a lot of content to read through, how is that suspicious?

It seems I'm in the awkward situation of replacing into a town slot that looks pretty scummy.

No idea what gave you that impression...

It would be a bit underwhelming if marcistar and GoldfishFromTheMoon turned out to be mafia. Hope GoldfishFromTheMoon is town.

This post freaks me out.

Intent to hammer Marcistar

not yet
I don't even want a claim from marci yet
UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

I don't want a hammer or even a claim until Goldie is caught up

Something to keep in mind if Marci flips scum. TTTT has advocated for competing wagons, and the importance of putting pressure on players via votes. We get Marci to E-1, twice, and each time TTTT removes their vote off of Marci.

I find this very interesting

You won't show me your pov. Give detailed reads please!!

I did everyone just ignored them

All we have so far is 409, which was cobbled together by TTTT. I don't need pages of theory/analysis, I'd just like each player put into one of three groups: town, null, and mafia.

Furthermore, if you are town, you have a unique perspective on your wagon. Who looks like they are cynically pushing you out? Who looks like town being led astray

?

I would like to hear your answer to this Marcistar.

Not a whole lot has changed since my last reads list, but here is where I'm at currently.

LukeWarm

- Pretty solid town read. Seems to really be trying to figure things out and get others involved. Posts don't seem forced or contrived, which is typically a scum tell.

Furtiveglance

- Has gone from null/townish to another solid town read. They have many of the same thoughts as myself in regards to reads, which obviously makes them a townish feel. Their pressure on Marci and intent to hammer, twice now, has me really thinking it's not something scum would be doing this early.

Mr. Turtle

- They have gone from null/scum to null/town. The only thing keeping me from reading them as solid town is lack of participation. Although they aren't contributing as much as others, what they do contribute seems pretty solid. I would love to see more from Mr. Turtle!!

TTTT

- Was my biggest town read for the longest time. Has now moved to null. More of a gut feel than anything, but something is not sitting quite right with me on TTTT lately. I mentioned this about the unvotes https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13290850 and maybe that is what has given me a lot of pause.

PPP

- Nothing has changed with my thoughts on PPP.

Somnus

- Has moved to my scummy list. Posting seems forced with little substance. It's like Somnus is here and participating, but just enough to appear as present and participating. Not giving much thought on their own reads nor others. Good strategy for scum, so if they are flipped there isn't much to go own based on their previous post.

Marcistar

- No changes here. Still my biggest scum read. They've done, literally, nothing to even attempt to change my mind here.

GoldfishFromTheMoon

- Nothing here yet. But I do like the early assessment of Marci and the seemingly eagerness to join the game. I hope they continue to participate. This slot was an early scum read for me, so I'm going to have to try hard to be a little unbiased and hear out GoldfishFromTheMoon a bit more before I make any further assessments.

I mostly agree with a lot of this (except for my slot being an early scum read lol)

[furtiveglance]

'wonder if it was a bus' lol

[TTTT]

Goldie's twilight posts were pretty ok actually

Spoiler:

@Goldie, what changed in the like 20 mins between these posts?

TTTT accused me of possibly being scum with Marcistar and I freaked out.

This is an unexpectedly candid answer. Thank you.

Not sure I know how to feel about it with her being this open with it though. Definitely something to think about over the night phase.

It seems that Marci has chosen not to claim

VOTE: Marci

I don't like this. You didn't post an intent to hammer before hand and you haven't waited for Marci to claim (although Marcistar has been given lots of time to claim and hasn't yet so they probably had it coming)

This said please note this is not intended to accuse Lukewarm of being scum I still town/null lean them. I just thought per game etiquette there was supposed to be more warning before the hammer vote.

Actually I just read over the rules in the beginning, intent to hammer isn't required. So it's fine, ignore my last post.

Bet you they'll ignore my reads too!

Can you give us some reads?????

no last minute thoughts?

The fact that Marcistar isn't giving any is very suspicious

why isn't anybody else here to chat in twilight with me?

I was literally just thinking the same thing because I didn't notice there was another page I thought we were still on pg. 26 lol.

if Marci is green my best guess is scum are PPP and Goldie
not at all high confidence
just best guess at this point

Interested to here what makes you think this.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

This was Goldie's big catchup post with reads
it's bad
very little is commented on that happened prior to Goldie replacing into the game
is this the post of a replacement player who read the whole game while trying to legitimately sort players?
(no it is not)

Spoiler:

I'm not sure we should Eliminate Marcistar yet UNVOTE: Marcistar

@Goldie
we need your thoughts soon
like within a few hours of this post

Here are some thoughts (sorry I know you didn't want a wall of text):


Tentative reads (I don't trust all these yet):
Mafia:
Somnus : really active but not contributing much, seems like active lurking
Marcistar: reasons I already described, also at the beginning they kept asking for reads but weren't contributing anything, I think that asking questions isn't scummy however it really looked like Marci was trying to look like she was pushing the game forward but not having to contribute or just looking for someone else's reads to latch onto. However I'm not certain She's scum anymore.
PPP: something is very off about their posting, they seem desperate to get somnus voted off, I wonder if it is a bus.

Everyone else seems pretty town-ish but there is nobody I completely trust.




And some other stuff:

Also though, Dino's tenure in the slot was individually kinda bad

.

Could you Explain this please; Dino made 1 post about there being a lot of content to read through, how is that suspicious?

It seems I'm in the awkward situation of replacing into a town slot that looks pretty scummy.

No idea what gave you that impression...

It would be a bit underwhelming if marcistar and GoldfishFromTheMoon turned out to be mafia. Hope GoldfishFromTheMoon is town.

This post freaks me out.

Intent to hammer Marcistar

not yet
I don't even want a claim from marci yet
UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

I don't want a hammer or even a claim until Goldie is caught up

Something to keep in mind if Marci flips scum. TTTT has advocated for competing wagons, and the importance of putting pressure on players via votes. We get Marci to E-1, twice, and each time TTTT removes their vote off of Marci.

I find this very interesting

You won't show me your pov. Give detailed reads please!!

I did everyone just ignored them

All we have so far is 409, which was cobbled together by TTTT. I don't need pages of theory/analysis, I'd just like each player put into one of three groups: town, null, and mafia.

Furthermore, if you are town, you have a unique perspective on your wagon. Who looks like they are cynically pushing you out? Who looks like town being led astray

?

I would like to hear your answer to this Marcistar.

Not a whole lot has changed since my last reads list, but here is where I'm at currently.

LukeWarm

- Pretty solid town read. Seems to really be trying to figure things out and get others involved. Posts don't seem forced or contrived, which is typically a scum tell.

Furtiveglance

- Has gone from null/townish to another solid town read. They have many of the same thoughts as myself in regards to reads, which obviously makes them a townish feel. Their pressure on Marci and intent to hammer, twice now, has me really thinking it's not something scum would be doing this early.

Mr. Turtle

- They have gone from null/scum to null/town. The only thing keeping me from reading them as solid town is lack of participation. Although they aren't contributing as much as others, what they do contribute seems pretty solid. I would love to see more from Mr. Turtle!!

TTTT

- Was my biggest town read for the longest time. Has now moved to null. More of a gut feel than anything, but something is not sitting quite right with me on TTTT lately. I mentioned this about the unvotes https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13290850 and maybe that is what has given me a lot of pause.

PPP

- Nothing has changed with my thoughts on PPP.

Somnus

- Has moved to my scummy list. Posting seems forced with little substance. It's like Somnus is here and participating, but just enough to appear as present and participating. Not giving much thought on their own reads nor others. Good strategy for scum, so if they are flipped there isn't much to go own based on their previous post.

Marcistar

- No changes here. Still my biggest scum read. They've done, literally, nothing to even attempt to change my mind here.

GoldfishFromTheMoon

- Nothing here yet. But I do like the early assessment of Marci and the seemingly eagerness to join the game. I hope they continue to participate. This slot was an early scum read for me, so I'm going to have to try hard to be a little unbiased and hear out GoldfishFromTheMoon a bit more before I make any further assessments.

I mostly agree with a lot of this (except for my slot being an early scum read lol)

I agree this was a bad post. I'm sorry. I legitimately didn't know what to say I find it difficult to read people online because I'm used to playing Mafia IRL.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Goldie
I'm not expecting a novel
don't really wanna read one
just your thoughts on each player
I'd prefer you write up posts as you are catching up, rather than making one or two giant walls
not only is it easier to read, but it makes it easier to follow your thought process as you read the game

this advice was totally ignored btw

Again, sorry

[TTTT]

we owe Luck the courtesy to review his case on Somnus

we owe Luke the courtesy of spelling his name correctly

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

'wonder if it was a bus' lol

Yeah I've changed my mind about that. Somnus and PPP seem like an unlikely scum team. The idea that an elimination could go ahead on a town player without a single scum supporting or being on the wagon is pretty unlikely.

[TTTT]

VOTE: Mr Turtle

[TTTT]

Go spend an hour re-reading the entire game
not ISOs
the whole game as it progresses
Turtle is largely absent and when he is here he isn't actually engaging others in meaningful ways
he's dropping in large posts with what looks like a lot of good analysis
but he makes zero effort to push anyone or anything in this game

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

VOTE: Mr Turtle

Interesing...
I agree that people have been too quick to toweread Mr Turtle,
I think the fact that he was posting lots of analysis made people instinctively think he must be town but scum could easily fake that.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Go spend an hour re-reading the entire game
not ISOs
the whole game as it progresses
Turtle is largely absent and when he is here he isn't actually engaging others in meaningful ways
he's dropping in large posts with what looks like a lot of good analysis
but he makes zero effort to push anyone or anything in this game

I agree with this analysis of Mr Turtle. Unfortunately I don't have time to reread the whole game tho.

[TTTT]

The idea that an elimination could go ahead on a town player without a single scum supporting or being on the wagon is pretty unlikely.

unlikely yes
but I wouldn't use this as a reason to clear a team though
especially on a day1 miselim in a Newbie game

[TTTT]

some other townie looking Furtive posts I marked as I was reading:
297
336