If you have a better lead somewhere else then make the case.
if you think my case is wrong because of _____ reason then state the reason.
but like you coming and going HEM is town because "gut" literally is meaningless to me.
And doing that with scum you (or town you who has demonstrated that you don’t want to listen) tonight is just going to create more bloat.
Good night
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 834, Aristeia wrote:I feel stronger about HEM flipping scum and if HEM flips town your scum equity goes down by a lot so it makes literally no sense for me to try to flip you today.
I kinda disagree with this. Nobody joined Gamma and me on Klick's wagon when HEM started gaining momentum, if scum wanted to save HEM they would just make Klick a counter wagon. Imo scum is either fine with the HEM wagon, or didn't want to endorse a Klick counter wagon because then it would be SvS.
In post 834, Aristeia wrote:I feel stronger about HEM flipping scum and if HEM flips town your scum equity goes down by a lot so it makes literally no sense for me to try to flip you today.
I kinda disagree with this. Nobody joined Gamma and me on Klick's wagon when HEM started gaining momentum, if scum wanted to save HEM they would just make Klick a counter wagon. Imo scum is either fine with the HEM wagon, or didn't want to endorse a Klick counter wagon because then it would be SvS.
That’s my point
Instead there’s three wagons (or were when I repped in)
That’s indicative of something just not sure what
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 834, Aristeia wrote:I feel stronger about HEM flipping scum and if HEM flips town your scum equity goes down by a lot so it makes literally no sense for me to try to flip you today.
I kinda disagree with this. Nobody joined Gamma and me on Klick's wagon when HEM started gaining momentum, if scum wanted to save HEM they would just make Klick a counter wagon. Imo scum is either fine with the HEM wagon, or didn't want to endorse a Klick counter wagon because then it would be SvS.
I kind of disagree as a matter of course with this type of analysis; I think it's reductive. "If scum wanted to save HEM they would just counterwagon". What if scum weren't online at the time? What if the scumteam is HEM and 2 of {Enchant, Mala, Bella, Dwlee} - players who are either lurking or avoiding being majorly committal? What if the scumteam is HEM, one of those players and someone else on the HEM wagon who's currently committed to the bus?
Scum also can't just go "wee, counterwagon" willy-nilly - if they're the third vote on a Klick wagon and HEM flips scum, their vote's gonna be scrutinized. Heck, it'll probably be scrutinized in the moment.
Tbh I also very strongly think there is almost no way that a gamestate-wide statement like "there's three wagons right now" can mean anything in any game of mafia - certainly it can mean something with the benefit of hindsight, but I am confident that you will never be able to correctly state some high-level reason about who is scum based just on the fact that "there's 3 wagons" with any accuracy whatsoever.
In post 756, Aristeia wrote:mathblade have we ever played a game where you were right about mech and I was wrong?
it feels like the only time I ever have mech disagreements with you are when you're scum and trying to make up random nonsense.
Is there a single time we've been t/t and disagreed on mech and you've actually been right?
In post 781, Aristeia wrote:literally the only times you spend lots of thread time fighting with me over mech in a way that makes no sense to me is when you're scum and making shit up.
In post 829, Aristeia wrote:except every time you wasted my time with a mech argument that's senseless you've been scum so why would I townread you for it this time?
Because we aren’t arguing over mech
We are arguing over scum theory and what players would and wouldn’t do
And it’s not been a waste of time
I forgot how much I hate playing with scum you because when I am not scum I have the charisma of nothing because I don’t know the lay of the land
But how about you prove it and vote me?
I flip town then you go brag about how “right” you are
Then you flip tomorrow.
Chicken?
Math's scum read on Ari feels really fake. She uses meta to scum read him first, and he retaliates by doing the same back. And he suddenly acts like he "knows" she's scum.
They're both using Burden of Proficiency for their meta reads, which typically I hate but I hate Math's more. Claiming "every time we disagree/you're wrong on mech it's because you're scum" and then providing examples at the very least has a basis in reality. But Math simply saying "you're never bad town so you have to be scum" is just, awful.
In post 859, implosion wrote:Tbh I also very strongly think there is almost no way that a gamestate-wide statement like "there's three wagons right now" can mean anything in any game of mafia - certainly it can mean something with the benefit of hindsight, but I am confident that you will never be able to correctly state some high-level reason about who is scum based just on the fact that "there's 3 wagons" with any accuracy whatsoever.
And I am not saying who is scum from it.
What you pitched is possible, but it’s not likely.
In the game (I think I linked) HEM was in a mirror scenario, player was scum with inactive scum Andres and I forget who I replaced and HEM was wagoned iirc.
Same scenario different wagons happen
So then either scum likely have an active member if HEM is scum,
But then why the wagons as they are?
It just doesn’t add up
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 756, Aristeia wrote:mathblade have we ever played a game where you were right about mech and I was wrong?
it feels like the only time I ever have mech disagreements with you are when you're scum and trying to make up random nonsense.
Is there a single time we've been t/t and disagreed on mech and you've actually been right?
In post 781, Aristeia wrote:literally the only times you spend lots of thread time fighting with me over mech in a way that makes no sense to me is when you're scum and making shit up.
In post 829, Aristeia wrote:except every time you wasted my time with a mech argument that's senseless you've been scum so why would I townread you for it this time?
Because we aren’t arguing over mech
We are arguing over scum theory and what players would and wouldn’t do
And it’s not been a waste of time
I forgot how much I hate playing with scum you because when I am not scum I have the charisma of nothing because I don’t know the lay of the land
But how about you prove it and vote me?
I flip town then you go brag about how “right” you are
Then you flip tomorrow.
Chicken?
Math's scum read on Ari feels really fake. She uses meta to scum read him first, and he retaliates by doing the same back. And he suddenly acts like he "knows" she's scum.
They're both using Burden of Proficiency for their meta reads, which typically I hate but I hate Math's more. Claiming "every time we disagree/you're wrong on mech it's because you're scum" and then providing examples at the very least has a basis in reality. But Math simply saying "you're never bad town so you have to be scum" is just, awful.
She is or is in a place where she won’t talk with me
So I have quit responding to her for the night
It would be like you all of a sudden posting one liners
It’s a huge difference when she’s wrong
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
I think Ari's leading theory of HEM/Enchant/Math is very solid, in the sense that it's almost certainly not perfectly correct (because calling the scumteam at this point is atrociously unlikely) but that I think it's got great odds of going 2 for 3 and I like the fact that someone with a lot of sway in the gamestate is pushing it.
I don't know how I feel about Mathblade's alignment right now; I think probably in practice there's a good chance he'll never do anything that I will be able to confidently glean a read from.
I essentially have a sort of backlog of people that I want to make sure see some amount of centrality in the game at some point, because they haven't been in the thick of things enough. Of course still Dwlee, as well as Bella and Roden and probably Harley as well. Not even gonna put Enchant on the list because I'm fully convinced Enchant is not going to play this game.
In post 834, Aristeia wrote:I feel stronger about HEM flipping scum and if HEM flips town your scum equity goes down by a lot so it makes literally no sense for me to try to flip you today.
I kinda disagree with this. Nobody joined Gamma and me on Klick's wagon when HEM started gaining momentum, if scum wanted to save HEM they would just make Klick a counter wagon. Imo scum is either fine with the HEM wagon, or didn't want to endorse a Klick counter wagon because then it would be SvS.
That’s my point
Instead there’s three wagons (or were when I repped in)
That’s indicative of something just not sure what
Nobody had momentum besides HEM. No one cared about Klick and the votes on Ari were stagnant.
In post 834, Aristeia wrote:I feel stronger about HEM flipping scum and if HEM flips town your scum equity goes down by a lot so it makes literally no sense for me to try to flip you today.
I kinda disagree with this. Nobody joined Gamma and me on Klick's wagon when HEM started gaining momentum, if scum wanted to save HEM they would just make Klick a counter wagon. Imo scum is either fine with the HEM wagon, or didn't want to endorse a Klick counter wagon because then it would be SvS.
I kind of disagree as a matter of course with this type of analysis; I think it's reductive. "If scum wanted to save HEM they would just counterwagon". What if scum weren't online at the time? What if the scumteam is HEM and 2 of {Enchant, Mala, Bella, Dwlee} - players who are either lurking or avoiding being majorly committal? What if the scumteam is HEM, one of those players and someone else on the HEM wagon who's currently committed to the bus?
Scum also can't just go "wee, counterwagon" willy-nilly - if they're the third vote on a Klick wagon and HEM flips scum, their vote's gonna be scrutinized. Heck, it'll probably be scrutinized in the moment.
I mean if that's the case with lurkers and HEM flips red and Math flips green, it sounds like we have a solid PoE. If HEM's getting bussed then I'll take the free red flip, I don't image anyone is getting lock towned just for voting HEM, especially when some of the votes were blank votes.
In post 861, MathBlade wrote:So then either scum likely have an active member if HEM is scum,
But then why the wagons as they are?
It just doesn’t add up
I mean.
This adds up perfectly if Ari's scumteam call is exactly correct. You're an active scum, the wagons are as they are because you're trying to fight the HEM wagon and not gaining ground.
This is the VoteCount where HEM was wagoned D1 I had just gotten into the game ish
It just doesn’t match what I would expect
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 861, MathBlade wrote:So then either scum likely have an active member if HEM is scum,
But then why the wagons as they are?
It just doesn’t add up
I mean.
This adds up perfectly if Ari's scumteam call is exactly correct. You're an active scum, the wagons are as they are because you're trying to fight the HEM wagon and not gaining ground.
But I happen to know it’s not as I am town.
Imagine for a moment I am town. Before I came in we were in the same positions before I was posting.
Your argument fails there.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 756, Aristeia wrote:mathblade have we ever played a game where you were right about mech and I was wrong?
it feels like the only time I ever have mech disagreements with you are when you're scum and trying to make up random nonsense.
Is there a single time we've been t/t and disagreed on mech and you've actually been right?
In post 781, Aristeia wrote:literally the only times you spend lots of thread time fighting with me over mech in a way that makes no sense to me is when you're scum and making shit up.
In post 829, Aristeia wrote:except every time you wasted my time with a mech argument that's senseless you've been scum so why would I townread you for it this time?
Because we aren’t arguing over mech
We are arguing over scum theory and what players would and wouldn’t do
And it’s not been a waste of time
I forgot how much I hate playing with scum you because when I am not scum I have the charisma of nothing because I don’t know the lay of the land
But how about you prove it and vote me?
I flip town then you go brag about how “right” you are
Then you flip tomorrow.
Chicken?
Math's scum read on Ari feels really fake. She uses meta to scum read him first, and he retaliates by doing the same back. And he suddenly acts like he "knows" she's scum.
They're both using Burden of Proficiency for their meta reads, which typically I hate but I hate Math's more. Claiming "every time we disagree/you're wrong on mech it's because you're scum" and then providing examples at the very least has a basis in reality. But Math simply saying "you're never bad town so you have to be scum" is just, awful.
I am not using BoP. If I am sure enough that I'm willing to BoP my life on it, I will say so.
Me and mathblade have played a total of four games together. (2 TvT and 2 TvS)
in two of them he was scum who was making up mech nonsense - mini 2226 and micro 1053
in one of them he rep'd into a mason slot and claimed mason
in the other one of them he rep'd into an mech confirmed investigated innocent slot that was force replaced because previous player decided to try to use unfair means to townspew himself.
At no point have I ever had to actually read for Town!Mathblade, so his thing about me getting his alignment correct is just nonsensical.
To be clear I don't agree with the premise of "HEM-scum means there must be an active scum". I have no idea why that is necessarily true, or even why it'd be particularly likely. It sounds like you're just basing it on one anecdote?
In post 756, Aristeia wrote:mathblade have we ever played a game where you were right about mech and I was wrong?
it feels like the only time I ever have mech disagreements with you are when you're scum and trying to make up random nonsense.
Is there a single time we've been t/t and disagreed on mech and you've actually been right?
In post 781, Aristeia wrote:literally the only times you spend lots of thread time fighting with me over mech in a way that makes no sense to me is when you're scum and making shit up.
In post 829, Aristeia wrote:except every time you wasted my time with a mech argument that's senseless you've been scum so why would I townread you for it this time?
Because we aren’t arguing over mech
We are arguing over scum theory and what players would and wouldn’t do
And it’s not been a waste of time
I forgot how much I hate playing with scum you because when I am not scum I have the charisma of nothing because I don’t know the lay of the land
But how about you prove it and vote me?
I flip town then you go brag about how “right” you are
Then you flip tomorrow.
Chicken?
Math's scum read on Ari feels really fake. She uses meta to scum read him first, and he retaliates by doing the same back. And he suddenly acts like he "knows" she's scum.
They're both using Burden of Proficiency for their meta reads, which typically I hate but I hate Math's more. Claiming "every time we disagree/you're wrong on mech it's because you're scum" and then providing examples at the very least has a basis in reality. But Math simply saying "you're never bad town so you have to be scum" is just, awful.
I am not using BoP. If I am sure enough that I'm willing to BoP my life on it, I will say so.
Me and mathblade have played a total of four games together. (2 TvT and 2 TvS)
in two of them he was scum who was making up mech nonsense - mini 2226 and micro 1053
in one of them he rep'd into a mason slot and claimed mason
in the other one of them he rep'd into an mech confirmed investigated innocent slot that was force replaced because previous player decided to try to use unfair means to townspew himself.
At no point have I ever had to actually read for Town!Mathblade, so his thing about me getting his alignment correct is just nonsensical.
It is for this account. I can’t refute this without alt outing you.
So yes, this is technically correct, but spiritually a lie.
This is why I really dislike arguing with scum!you/not listening you.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 756, Aristeia wrote:mathblade have we ever played a game where you were right about mech and I was wrong?
it feels like the only time I ever have mech disagreements with you are when you're scum and trying to make up random nonsense.
Is there a single time we've been t/t and disagreed on mech and you've actually been right?
In post 781, Aristeia wrote:literally the only times you spend lots of thread time fighting with me over mech in a way that makes no sense to me is when you're scum and making shit up.
In post 829, Aristeia wrote:except every time you wasted my time with a mech argument that's senseless you've been scum so why would I townread you for it this time?
Because we aren’t arguing over mech
We are arguing over scum theory and what players would and wouldn’t do
And it’s not been a waste of time
I forgot how much I hate playing with scum you because when I am not scum I have the charisma of nothing because I don’t know the lay of the land
But how about you prove it and vote me?
I flip town then you go brag about how “right” you are
Then you flip tomorrow.
Chicken?
Math's scum read on Ari feels really fake. She uses meta to scum read him first, and he retaliates by doing the same back. And he suddenly acts like he "knows" she's scum.
They're both using Burden of Proficiency for their meta reads, which typically I hate but I hate Math's more. Claiming "every time we disagree/you're wrong on mech it's because you're scum" and then providing examples at the very least has a basis in reality. But Math simply saying "you're never bad town so you have to be scum" is just, awful.
She is or is in a place where she won’t talk with me
So I have quit responding to her for the night
It would be like you all of a sudden posting one liners
It’s a huge difference when she’s wrong
I think she was trying to talk to you, honestly you're both saying the same thing in different ways. But she got tilted which tilted you in return.
What I don't get is why you're saying she's wrong. Like unless I misread it looks like you're saying her reads are wrong, but it's Day 1 so I'm not sure how you could know that. Like at best I could understand heavily disagreeing with her reads, but flat out saying she's wrong doesn't make sense to me.
In post 870, implosion wrote:To be clear I don't agree with the premise of "HEM-scum means there must be an active scum". I have no idea why that is necessarily true, or even why it'd be particularly likely. It sounds like you're just basing it on one anecdote?
I am basing it on knowing scum HEM.
Put scum HEM in the same instances (inactive scum)
You should get the same conclusion (wagons disappears)
This didn’t happen.
You have a recent scum game where I replaced in with HEM and what I did and can observe
Yes it’s one game but it’s like trying to fit a round peg in a square hole
It just doesn’t fit
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
This is the only account I consider to be mine; everything else done on other accounts are not really me.
Your whole "she must always read me 100% correctly every time" is just nonsensical. If you act like the way you acted while scum playing with me, I'm going to misread you. That's just how my mind works. I'm not a psychic.
