Abarat Mafia: Mini 1274 - Over

[Indecision]

(Equinox)

Sorry to disappoint, Faraday, but no, I do not.

[Faraday]

it involves your vote and explanation for said vote, mostly. will tell you later, maybe.

[Klazam]

4nix- I unvoted nacho because the reason why i voted Nacho was sufficiently defended in my opinion. I didn’t see anything scummy with Nacho at the moment.

Indecision- It’s 1 scum, 2 town that 4nix was saying not the other way around.

I dont see 4nix3ty as scum. The first vote was a badvote, but the posts seem town to me. Indecision isn’t scum either.

Faraday, could you clarify this please:

Nacho- What is the purpose of your "deal" with equinox? I think that opens up a whole can of WIFOM. And why vote Hind?

Faraday, why the hammer gambits? What was the point of them?

More posts from Zang, Kiwi, and Seraphrim, please.

Oversoul, so you’re letting Nacho “off the hook” for “catching” 4nix, or is 4nix just more scummy than Nacho?

Timeater’s catching of that “us” in Nacho’s statement is interesting. I overlooked that last night. Merits more watching.

Timeeater, why vote indecision over your suspicions of Nacho? Indecision defended Nacho’s statement and you go to vote indecision. I'm not getting it.

[Faraday]

Why are you asking me pointless questions? Why the fuck do you think I would want the hammer gambit and maybe gain a reaction from anxiety?

And no, I can't clarify. Literally incapable.

[Faraday]

Timeater%u2019s catching of that %u201Cus%u201D in Nacho%u2019s statement is interesting. I overlooked that last night. Merits more watching.

what is 'interesting' about it? have you read it in context?

[Klazam]

So you're saying that you hammer gambited just for the heck of it, seeing if your town read was wrong?

your face doesnt make sense to me. Are you trying to say i'm scum for saying that, or are you trying to say i'm stupid for doing that?

I meant that the "us" in that statement was interesting, not the Timeater catching of it. and yes, i read it in context.

[Timeater]

Lynching indecision will help me determine faraday and hindu's alignment (tip: i'm not elaborating). I've also thought the hydra was scummy since his first couple of posts. Hind put it into strong enough words for me to go along with it. Its a good wagon. Way better than the apparently "false" anxiety wagon. So I'm putting nacho on the backburner and going with the unspoken telepathic turn this game has taken. If Indecision claims good, I might re-evaluate. Otherwise dude is getting lynched.

[Faraday]

well he was mostly just kind of there for me, so i figured if we could get a reaction it'd be useful.

let's just pretend I was calling you scummy for it. you can now say 'why', I'll say 'i dunno felt off'. the question seemed force especially the phrase 'open up a can of WIFOM', it's not like wifom is inherently bad.

i know what you were talking about. explain to me why you find his usage of the word 'us' interesting.

[Timeater]

I see you lurking Zang, you gonna post?

[Klazam]

That deal made no sense to me. I read it, then realized that there was many ways that the deal could mess up if taken seriously. Like i said, if one of them ends up dead, what are the town supposed to get from it? and i also didnt get why Nacho picked Equinox specifically. The post was really strange, thats why i asked my questions.

I know that i wouldnt use the word "US" when talking about myself, I know Nacho isnt a hydra, so why would he use that word? It could be a minor slip. It's not major enough for me to merit any action on it, but i'll be looking at nacho more closely now.

[Faraday]

How helpful do you think your questions have been? A lot of them look like asking for the sake of it, to me.

[Klazam]

My questions do help me.

[Nachomamma8]

From personal experience, people who say "x scum, y town" are usually scum as it is a blatant display of insider knowledge.

Gimmie that "personal experience", please.

With recent activity the possibility of two scum in the previously mentioned triangle is valid.

This is the problem I have with you. What recent activity? (Be more specific). Why two scum in the triangle and not SPECIFIC PEOPLE IN THE TRIANGLE? (Be more specific). Are you afraid to call people out as scum, so you just call groups of people out as scum?

Oh, yes, yes. Let's flame me because I think you're scum. Honestly? Can you fucking cut it back? REALLY? My FIRST VOTE of the damn game and you're going to break this shit out instead of asking me ANYTHING about why I think you're scum? Fuck ALL THAT and ESPECIALLY fuck this sham of a defense.

This was an overreaction.

[Jase]

DLG: The only difference in my play from normal should be the miller claim itself. If I look scummy it's either because I'm scum or because I'm playing poorly and not because I decided the miller claim gave me license to do whatever I want. If I play the same way I did in my last game, yes, I think there's a good chance that I would draw and investigation.

All this shit about indecision is interesting and I think for now I buy it. It helps that hindu is a feeling townie right now.

As for the Nacho slip I'm not at all inclined to call it a scum slip. In context I don't think it really makes sense for him to be referring to other players in his faction as "Us". I think if anything it was probably just because he was talking to a hydra and was thinking with plurals for or something.

It seems like DLG and Klazam are both asking questions and poking without any apparent purpose.

DLG:

Also, any one of the three seem more likely scum than the others?
If not, why not check it out further?
If so, why not vote that one?

@ Jase
Do you plan to use your miller claim as license to be hyper scummy?
Do you anticipate being just scummy enough to warrant being investigated?

@ Timeater
Did you finally draw scum like you wanted in the sign-up thread?

Were there reasons based on scumhunting for these questions? I'm not seeing the purpose.

Klazam:

So you're saying that you hammer gambited just for the heck of it, seeing if your town read was wrong?

your face doesnt make sense to me. Are you trying to say i'm scum for saying that, or are you trying to say i'm stupid for doing that?

Faraday, why the hammer gambits? What was the point of them?

Oversoul, so you’re letting Nacho “off the hook” for “catching” 4nix, or is 4nix just more scummy than Nacho?

As with DLG I don't see the reason for these questions. What were you hoping to conclude from them?

[Timeater]

so why is zang continually lurking

[kiwieagle]

god damnit people
you guys are posting too fast


Ok so thoughts:

EQUINOX:

If I'm scum, the mafia will not kill you night one. In return, if you're scum, you don't kill us right now. Deal?

Not a great first post:
Buddying with indecision?
also I really doubt he would put "us" because he was a mason.

(Equinox)

Anyways, I still think you guys are scum, and a lot of that is for going for Faraday instantly, calling it a joke, and then keeping your vote on him.

We're scum for... voting Faraday in RVS and getting a rise out of him. Well done, Hinduragi! You caught us on page one. Where did you ever learn to hunt scum like that? Seriously, while both of us have been in hydrae with him, they've been town hydrae, which is a far cry from actually playing scum with him and hasn't stopped either of us from getting burned by Faraday-scum.

EQUINOX:

If I'm scum, the mafia will not kill you night one. In return, if you're scum, you don't kill us right now. Deal?

Bah! But I love getting killed Night 1. Not sure how the latter deal will work seeing as we're not scum anyway, but deal.

initial reaction to the jase/faraday/indecision triangle is one scum, two towns.

Vote: Klazam

your unvote feels a little out of place.

> scum in {Faraday, Indecision, Jase}
> votes Klazam
> "but they could be town too"

Okay.

Unvote, Vote: 4nxi3ty

Sounds like an easy mislynch/wagon

I honestly dont want any of those speed/shitty lynches this game <.<

(Equinox)

What the fuck is wrong with you people? If you call someone scum, it doesn't make sense to call them scum and... vote someone else. Lookin' at you, Timeater and 4nxi3ty. Timeater at least has stated the reason for why his vote is where it is, but 4nxi3ty has no excuse.

Move your vote, 4nxi3ty.

..and he did give a reason for why his vote is where it is

(Equinox)

Unvote

Will return later. Post 93 from 4nxi3ty looks vaguely townish to me right now, but I'd like to discuss this and my other (sekrit) reads with Mina before proceeding.

and then she does a complete 360 on her reads after she realized people were starting to suspect her for the way she called 4nxi3ty scummy...

[kiwieagle]

VOTE: indecision

[Indecision]

To be honest, I think the case on us is not very good at all.

I don't share Equinox's masochistic love of being wagoned.

I would also be very interested in seeing Timeeater and Jase sum up just what points in Hinduragi's blown-up PBPA they personally agree with (Jase in particular seems as though he's trying to justify keeping his vote parked on us--um, did you not notice the shit that was "interesting" before Hindu commented on it?--which is annoying because the rest of his play looks town). However, I will try to stay civil in this post and not resort to attacking the intelligence of the people voting for us (particularly since Hinduragi already accused us of flaming him this game).

All right, Faraday, if I were alone right now, I could understand your paranoia of me after 82.75, since I started this game the exact same way I did there.

However, this is fucking

Equinox

. Maybe I'm biased, but I think she's been obvtown this game. (She's even doing the ridiculous "Everyone should vote for me!" shtick. )

So out of curiosity, have you seen her play like this as scum? This feels a bit weird to ask, since I'm technically asking about myself and I already know Equinox is town. But I genuinely want to know where your read of her is coming from. My perception of her is that she's fairly easy to read--and furthermore, I thought that was your perception of her as well.

I'll respond to Hinduragi in a bit. Won't vote until Equinox is online again, because we're living up to our name at the moment. We're getting too many town reads--there has to be scum in {Faraday, Hinduragi, Jase, Timeeater}, but we have no clue whom.

~Mina

[Klazam]

Jase: The hammer gambit questions is because i was trying to figure out why faraday would do that on a person faraday thought was town. the question is because i didnt understand the post. Oversoul question is because Oversoul voted for Nacho, then jumped to 4nix because Nacho called 4nix scummy, which is.... nonlogicial.

I have a reason for all my questions.

[Zang]

Because of the length, I put it in a spoiler. But here is my complete thoughts and questions of the game so far:

Spoiler: The first of many, many walls

Ok I think it's best to put this fact on the table where everyone can see it.

I am a "miller".

Why didn't you claim your flavor with your role?

You can't tell the difference between me and Equinox? You don't read the thread closely when you're scum.

Is not reading the thread closely while scum actually standard meta for Faraday? Were you serious when you called him scum?

Um, if you must know I'm Abraham Hollow Keeper of the etc.

Holy shit I don't know how I made such a grievous spelling error.

[shamelesswagonhop]

Vote: faraday

[/shamlesswagonhop]

Preview edit:

Oh shit now Indecision is scum? Fuck fuck fuck gotta keep up.

Vote: Indecision

Why did you switch your vote so much? Are any of these votes serious?

Well I don't think I can pull the quote from my role Pm lest I incur the wrath of our dashing and physically attractive mod.

Why do you assume that you have to quote your role PM to provide flavor for your role?

You mean the acutal manner he went about it? Poor, but largely irrelevant. If you mean his character then I think it fits. why'd you not ask him for flavour straight away?

p.s. you seem a little edgy. why?

Why didn't you ask for his flavor straight away?

Don't like the "self-vote" thing mainly because I know I've used it before as scum and I think I've seen it from scum before.

Vote: Indecision

Haven't read the posts under that but pretty sure Faraday's town as fuck.

Why should it matter if you said it as scum before? I've said lots of things as scum but that doesn't mean that anybody who says it is scum.

Faraday: Mainly because I was enjoying the page one banter too much. And my initial instinct on his claim was town, I guess, so it didn't bother me that much right off the bat that his claim was vague? I'll admit my pressuring of him was sort of a perfunctory "Well, someone's claimed miller and didn't provide flavour; might as well force him to clarify" shot in the dark.

Why was your initial instinct to think that he is town?

EQUINOX:

If I'm scum, the mafia will not kill you night one. In return, if you're scum, you don't kill us right now. Deal?

What is the purpose of you proposing this deal? By “right now” do you mean specifically at that moment, any time in day 1 or in night 1? Also, Who is “us” referring to?

I looked up posts of mine where I said might as well claim scum in the search and I was town in all of them. I'm not going to bother looking through every post of every game for one person to say it because I'm lazy and I've got a wiki for anyone who really wants to look it up. Anyways, I still think you guys are scum, and a lot of that is for going for Faraday instantly, calling it a joke, and then keeping your vote on him. Especially since I know you've both been in hydra's with him. The rest are nitpicky things kind of like the might as well claim scum thing coming out so early.

Faraday's town because of gut.

1.You said “I know I've used it before as scum”. You didn't bother to look up whether you actually did or not before your vote? So then why bother looking it up now? Why were you so sure that you have if you haven't?
2.You said that saying “you might as well claim scum” is often said by scum so they are scum was your main reason for voting them. So why are you still voting them? Why didn't you provide that reasoning in your original post with your vote?
3.How could you have a gut read on Faraday if you only read one post of his that says “Vote Indecision”?

Vote: Hinduragi

initial reaction to the jase/faraday/indecision triangle is one scum, two towns.

Why didn't you claim this reasoning with your post? You can't just go around claiming reads without reasoning. Who out of those three do you think is the scum?

There seems to be a lot of meta coming into play with that interaction, which imo wouldn't be necessary if all three were town. It is far more likely that there is only one scum and not two, given the nature of their arguments. No one has done anything overly scummy so there is still the possibility that they are town.

Why is the use of meta necessary in that situation?

We're scum for... voting Faraday in RVS and getting a rise out of him. Well done, Hinduragi! You caught us on page one. Where did you ever learn to hunt scum like that? Seriously, while both of us have been in hydrae with him, they've been town hydrae, which is a far cry from actually playing scum with him and hasn't stopped either of us from getting burned by Faraday-scum.

Then why up to this post, where you still voting Faraday?

> scum in {Faraday, Indecision, Jase}
> votes Klazam
> "but they could be town too"

Okay.

Unvote, Vote: 4nxi3ty

He didn't say that there had to be scum within those three, he just said that it was his initial reaction to believe that.

VOTE: 4nxi3ty

What Nachomamma 8 said.

The only thing that nachomamma8 said with his vote was him asking a question which Anxiety has already answered. Your reasoning for voting him didn't apply. So why did you vote him anyway? Did you even read Nachomamma8's and Anxiety's post?

FoS: DLG

Like I said earlier, it was an initial reaction and i haven't taken the time to analyze it further.

Then you should have waited until you had the time to analyze it further before posting and if you didn't then, then you should now.

Jase's miller claim is ugly. Faraday.... eh. Never really played a game with Faraday except for a bastard and I completely misread him.

Fuck Hindu for RPG Mafia. Nachomamma is weird. Don't like the tone of his posts. I don't like the interaction between Indecision and Faraday, but letting it slide cause of RVS and they clearly have personal history.

Off topic, is Equinox a girl?

VOTE: Nachomma

Nachomamma8's tone of posts is enough for you to vote for him? What about his tone of posts do you not like?

indecision+mina/faraday is a scum on scum interaction

What is your reasoning? Why did you not provide any reasoning especially after Anxiety was just criticized for not providing reasoning? Why didn't you vote? Why are you so sure that they are scum?

there was no 'rvs' in this game. what don't you like? if you don't like it shouldn't you prod at it more?

So then you think that all the votes in the first two pages of the game were serious?

wow i just read 4nxi3ty's posts and they're so fucking scummy.

STOP
HAMMAH
TIME

vote 4nxi3ty

The game started less than a day ago. Why are you so eager for a quicklynch?

Why isnt it scum on scum

tell me bros

tell me why its a town interaction

No

1.Just because something isn't scum on scum doesn't mean it's town on town.
2.You shouldn't just assume that something is scum just because it isn't town. Using that logic, nearly everybody in this game would be scum.
3.There is such thing as a person/event being null or neutral.
4.You claimed that they are scum so it is your duty to explain why. It is not the rest of the towns duty to explain why they aren't.

FoS: Timeater

VOTE: Nachomma

Why didn't you vote for indecision or Faraday who you previously called scum?

(Equinox)

The banter helped Mina and I get a read of him.

What read is that?

EQUINOX:

If I'm scum, the mafia will not kill you night one. In return, if you're scum, you don't kill us right now. Deal?

Us?

VOTE: Nachomma

Why the fuck are you going to bring this to predominant attention when it's very likely it could've come from town? Goddammit.

Clarification.

Also, why do you think it is likely that it came from town?

he was never at l-1, you fucking clowns. way to be a useless sack timeater. why didn't you throw down a fake hammer to see how he reacted.

If somebody else puts him at L-1, would you still support his lynch?

Dude, he isn't a mason. Nachoconfscum.

@faraday - I should have done that. I need to work on my telepath mb

How do you know if he is or isn't a mason?

Faraday: Seems to be suspicious of Indecision and Oversoul yet joins the same wagon as them...? Also, "they're so fucking scummy" is a vague reason that doesn't hold yourself accountable for your vote.

don't be stupid. I don't actually even think you're scum

unvote, vote indecision

Did you think that he was scum when you voted for him? If not, why did you vote for him? Why did you say that you wanted sommebody to lynch him? What would you have done if scum took advantage of this situation (assuming that they're not already on his wagon) and hammered him with the defense that you supported it?

Why is indecision scum?

How do scum kill multiple targets in one night? Thats not how the usual thought process works. I just dont see it as being a townslip.

How does a townie kill multiple scum in one night? That's not how the usual scum thought process works.

(Equinox)

In return, if you're scum, you don't kill us right now. Deal?

I'm a little confused, Timeater. Nachomamma8 was talking about a hypothetical situation where I was scum, so how would he be in the mindset to slip that he's in a scum team?

If he was conscious of him putting “us” in the hypothetical situation then he wouldn't have put it in there in the first place.

(Equinox)

Hahahaha!

Vote: Faraday

This is good. Right now, the ONLY thing you can possibly be thinking if you're town is "ok, let's vote Faraday because we're paranoid of him and see what we can get in case he's scum". Otherwise, you're scum who want to 1.) coast 2.) have an easy RVS vote 3.) vote Faraday/possibly help to get him lynched who is going to be a PILLAR of town if you're scum

How is that the only thing that they could have been thinking as town?

The next part is a blind joking reason as to why your vote might be good...at all. I'll come back to it in these next few quotestripes.

It was the RVS. Whys should it matter if their vote is good or not? And your whole case assumes that his vote is serious which although I'm still confused on it, I don't think is true.

Hindu is missing the 'piece de resistance', which makes all of that even worse. it's not his fault though. he doesn't know what it is, I do though. Equinox does too. Don't you Equinox?

What is the “piece de resistance”? Why do you mention this without explaining what it is?

vote indecision

I'll go with it

Why is Indecision scummier than Nachomamma8? I thought that you thought that he scumslipped.

2) When I ask people to vote me, I'm not joking around. It could potentially help me figure out if their suspicions of me are genuine or not and if they're willing to put themselves on the line and mislynch. For instance, this game: 4nxi3ty stated a couple of times that he thought 2 of {Faraday, Indecision, Jase} were scum. If he felt convinced by this -- and he sounded like he was -- he should have thought, "I have 67% chance of my vote landing on scum." Instead, he jumped onto Klazam. I wanted to see if I could bait him into voting and, if he did, how he decided to justify moving his vote. Timeater was in a similar boat when he first posted that he believed Faraday and I were scum together.

1.He said one scum in those three not two so it would be 33% not 67%.
2.Why are you changing what he said?
3.33% is nowhere near enough to convince at least me to vote somebody and leave the lynch completely up to chance.

3) I can keep my vote on Faraday as long as I want. He knows he likes it! Okay, seriously, we're now talking about two different situations: There wasn't a large wagon on Faraday when we kept our vote there, but there was an 4nxi3ty wagon that was sitting at L-2. I read his post where he analyzed his wagon, decided it felt genuine, and didn't want my vote on an L-2 wagon while I waited for Mina to come online to help me deliberate on things in the thread.

You can keep your vote on him but you shouldn't. Voting someone and keeping your vote on them represents that you think they are scum whether you actually do or don't even if there isn't anybody else voting him. Also, that could be used as an excuse by mafia to keep their vote on somebody.

it involves your vote and explanation for said vote, mostly. will tell you later, maybe.

There is no pro-town reason for why you should deny the information of why something indecision did is scummy to the town.

Why are you asking me pointless questions? Why the fuck do you think I would want the hammer gambit and maybe gain a reaction from anxiety?

And no, I can't clarify. Literally incapable.

Nobody can read your mind. How am I or anybody else supposed to know what you meant to do in any situation if you do not explain it?

well he was mostly just kind of there for me, so i figured if we could get a reaction it'd be useful.

So you just thought that you would vote him and put him at L-2 because you were able to? What exactly did you find useful from his reaction?

I see you lurking Zang, you gonna post?

It's been less than a day since the game started and it takes a while to write posts as awesome as this.

Also, why should it matter? What else would I be doing but writing a post for this?

From personal experience, people who say "x scum, y town" are usually scum as it is a blatant display of insider knowledge.

Gimmie that "personal experience", please.

With recent activity the possibility of two scum in the previously mentioned triangle is valid.

This is the problem I have with you. What recent activity? (Be more specific). Why two scum in the triangle and not SPECIFIC PEOPLE IN THE TRIANGLE? (Be more specific). Are you afraid to call people out as scum, so you just call groups of people out as scum?

Oh, yes, yes. Let's flame me because I think you're scum. Honestly? Can you fucking cut it back? REALLY? My FIRST VOTE of the damn game and you're going to break this shit out instead of asking me ANYTHING about why I think you're scum? Fuck ALL THAT and ESPECIALLY fuck this sham of a defense.

This was an overreaction.

Why didn't you explain the use of the word “us”? You've been asked several times.

DLG: The only difference in my play from normal should be the miller claim itself. If I look scummy it's either because I'm scum or because I'm playing poorly and not because I decided the miller claim gave me license to do whatever I want. If I play the same way I did in my last game, yes, I think there's a good chance that I would draw and investigation.

Why should claiming miller affect your play?

Sorry if I asked a lot of questions that were answered after the post I quoted but this is a lot to go back and edit so for the most part, I just left it in.

Just in Case the mod doesn't count it:

Vote: Hinduragi

I'll make a more consice post summarizing my reads later.

[Faraday]

However, this is fucking Equinox. Maybe I'm biased, but I think she's been obvtown this game. (She's even doing the ridiculous "Everyone should vote for me!" shtick. )

I find it hard to believe you actually think she's obvtown. I am pretty sure she does things like that regardless of alignment, she's got little to no scum meta available (or far less), but the fact she doesn't look obvtown is part of the reason I've kept my vote on you.

Her response to Hindu looks kinda bad, actually. That's not really the reason I'm voting for you though but fuck it. i'm tired of teeheeing around your bullshit pre-planned vote that I don't think you'd do as town.

Why did you need to vote me to 'banter'. Why would Equinox town EVER want to vote me when she's admitted that she can't read me from reacting to votes to me before? That she finds votes on me unhelpful in reading me? So that changed between the last game we've played (Where she admitted to NOT VOTING ME for that exact reason as town) to the pre-game here where it suddenly became a good idea? Un fucking likely. I think it's more likely you thought a faraday vote would be a safe vote for scum you, it'd allow you to ease into the game as you'd expect me to interact with you. You can banter with me reasonably naturally so it's the best way for you to start the game.

PRE-EDIT.
what the fuck is that post?

[Faraday]

i stopped counting at 6 computer screens in length.

[Faraday]

Is there anything in there I still need to answer, it seems most of them are out of date.

[Zang]

Faraday-

Why didn't you ask for his flavor straight away?
So then you think that all the votes in the first two pages of the game were serious?
If somebody else puts him at L-1, would you still support his lynch? (Would you have continued your reaction test if he was put at L-1?)
What would you have done if scum took advantage of this situation (assuming that they're not already on his wagon) and hammered him with the defense that you supported it?
Why is indecision scum?
What is the “piece de resistance”? Why do you mention this without explaining what it is?

Look in the post for the context

[Faraday]

I didn't really think of asking beyond his role name, I asked Mina that question because she was posting but sort of seemed to ignore the miller claim in lieu of 'banter', which I found very unherlike and then asked after a while.

Who do you think random voted? I'd say it was dead halfway down the first page at the latest.

Scum take advantage of what situation? I was online there was no risk to anyone quickhammering him, past L-1. No one would have hammered him without a claim. Why would ME supporting it make scum more likely to hammer? If someone else had put him at L-1, I'd have said 'well he was hammered' and there'd be no risk of further votes.