/in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[Tammy]

Okay and answer me this. If shadoweh is the final scum, why the hell is she standing up for you today? Why the hell did she back off from her scum read of you yesterday benmage, and then show comparisons to the wire and use it as proof for why you're town?

Why would she do that as scum? It seems to me she could easily keep up her suspicion of you and use your anti town behavior against you, who are lynchable, and she's not. So, that makes me doubt.

Then DV looks like he could be testing the waters for instance how he asked me about my read of you as compared to the wire. There's ctd who barely interacted with DV and that last minute case on dv by nacho which has me wondering.

I would love it if it was shadoweh, that would mean I suspected the entire scum team since day two and there was something to the ctd interaction, but am I willing to just throw in the towel and not read through some things to make sure? Hell no.

So you can take your "it's scummy to actually read the game" and stuff it.

[Tammy]

I just reread bens posts coming straight out of day again. Not sure why I did that, I now feel compelled to strike my head repeatedly with a baseball bat and see if it starts making sense.

Oh yeah, I'm VT, obviously.

[Benmage]

Wow. What in the actual fuck? No really, what in the actual fuck is your problem? In what universe is wanting to reread through things to make sure I'm being objective scummy? I realize you're mister ego, but man you really are intent on ruining this game for town aren't you?

I'm so blindingly obvious town that you are even making the argument you are has to be indicative of intoxication.

Why are you being selective on your comparison to people's games? DVs play isn't actually identical to the wire, but you know whose is? MINE. I was obvious town there, just like I'm obvious town here.

You are probably town here, but it's not 1000000000% that you are.

What I think is really ironic is that you hammered UT for voting you, and then you vote OGML for being suspicious of you because you don't want a bad player alive in lylo because they would ruin the game. Then you come in today and declare that if you are in lylo with either llamarble or me, you're voting whichever one is here.

Hey benmage how does it feel to immediately put yourself on the level of people you declared should be out of the game because they are bad players? Especially now that llamarble has claimed VIG. He's someone I wasn't even worried about anyway, but that should be pretty apparent as all I've done is call him town all game long and not wavered.

Let me cut you off here.

I posted that first claim prior to his vig claim. So we can take that back.

But lets review... You had him as town anyways... Now even moreso... My play compared to the wire is a gailliontimes Town. But you can only say..."probably"... fine... noones perfect at this game.

So again....

What did you need to review today?

You're town? No?... Llamarable.. myself.. how many lynches left? 2... how many unknowns? 2... is it not gg?



go reread the game, I'm sure there's 1 post you missed that will suddenly give you the epiphany you're searching for.

[Tammy]

I think it should be obvious.

I can't not believe you are wasting time getting after me for *gasp* wanting to reread though the game. Because I *gasp* want to make sure I'm being objective. Because I *gasp* want to remove any doubts, and because I *gasp* would like to get this right.

Are you even paying attention to yourself? Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

I just fucking answered your stupid ass question. I'm not so sure it so clear cut that it's shadoweh. While I don't have doubts about llamarble and haven't all game, and I have few doubts about you, except for your play being so hilariously anti town and ridiculous right now. I do worry about it being oh so easy that it's shadoweh, and though I would like to rely on empires town read of dv, I'm worried about that. Does that make sense to you?

I would absolutley love for it to be shadoweh, I love being right early, but I'm worried we're getting ahead of ourselves, and I want to read through the damn game because I actually care about getting it right and unlike you I'm not willing to just vote town in lylo without thinking.

If you're so he'll bent on voting me or calling me scum and losing the game for town, do it today or shut the hell up. I'm going to reread through some things and THAT IS FUCKING FINAL. I WILL NOT BE BULLIED BY YOU TO BE ANTITOWN.

This shouldn't even be a thing, and do not talk to e about this again because I will not respond top your stupid ass requests for me to justify why I want to *gasp* read the fucking game.

[Benmage]

If you're so he'll bent on voting me or calling me scum and losing the game for town, do it today or shut the hell up. I'm going to reread through some things and THAT IS FUCKING FINAL. I WILL NOT BE BULLIED BY YOU TO BE ANTITOWN.

This shouldn't even be a thing, and do not talk to e about this again because I will not respond top your stupid ass requests for me to justify why I want to *gasp* read the fucking game.

Vote you today.. or shut the hell up.. let me see if I can phrase this correctly.... No. Phew nailed it!

You can whine and ate all you want tammy.

You can say I'm being ridiculous. You can somehow claim to have doubts about me... as that could be your only real reason to pause.

*I"M SO EAGER FOR YOUR AFTER READ THOUGHTS I BET ITS TOTALLY GONNA BE GAME CHANGING WHERE WE TOTALLY DONT END UP LYNCHING EITHER SHADOW OR DV!!! IM SO EXCITED THIS ROCKSS!!!!*

You've *gasp* justified.. I've mocked you for it... you're the one hell bent on explaining why you suck... It changes nothing on how the game will be played out... Noones holding a gun to you're head... go read.. I'm just gonna call you bad for it. You're the one just getting a little butthurt about it. The game is 1-2-3 for me... You still need to try and unravel the opened box.

[Tammy]

Except for your 123 ends up to a town loss if we're wrong today. But you're slo blind by your ego to see that.

Vote me now or shut the fuck up. I refuse to get stuck with you in lylo and have you has the game to scum be ause you're being a jerk.

[Tammy]

Also also if you're so convinced its shadoweh, why is she talking about reading tierce in the night and not reviewing me but now has to? Huh? If she was scum she would know I was living and that tierce was dying. So she's either trying to drop a town tell or she like everyone else expected me to die last night?


Oh but I'm oh so horrible and scummy for wanting to take my time and make sure I'm being objective and not confirm biasing my way through end game.

Yeah, okay.

[Tammy]

Also also also, I never said I wanted to lynch out of dv or shadoweh, I said I wanted to reread them mostly because I want to make sure I'm being objective about the two of them. Llamarble is town, you probably are but I have some doubts, it's most likely shadoweh or dv and I'd like to read thought them.

Get it? Got it? Fucking good.

Mock all you want you just look dumb for jumping on obvious town making the pathetically stupid argument you are because I want to read the fucking game and not just barrel my way though especially when you've decided that you're Bly voting town if they're alive in lylo.

Jesus fucking Christ.

In other news, I did repeatedly hit myself with a bat, and benmage still sounds stupid.

[Tammy]

And you know what benmage I will lynch your fucking ass today if that's what it takes to get some objectivity in here and make sure town has a chance of winning.

I can not believe you're jumping on me for wanting to read the fucking game.

And I can't believe I'm still arguing with you about it.

[Tammy]

And why would I lynch you today? Because you can't be trusted in lylo. How bout that cheah.

[Benmage]

Keep letting you emotions get the best of you in a logical game.

[Benmage]

Read the conclusion of 1852, again yeeesh.


wahmbulance is on high alert.

[Benmage]

I havent even voted you yet... why not let lylo figure lylo itself out. Yeeeshhhhhhhh

[Benmage]

Also also also, I never said I wanted to lynch out of

dv or shadoweh

, I said I wanted to reread them mostly because I want to make sure I'm being objective about the two of them. Llamarble is town, you probably are but I have some doubts, it's most likely shadoweh or dv and I'd like to read thought them.

Well when you call the only other options town... its kind've an easy assumption....

But again.. please go read.. take all the time you need.

Im sure the findings will be phenomenal!

[Benmage]

And the logic behind PL idiocy out of lylo is only valid when you have sufficient lynches to still eliminate the nonobvtown.

Which if you opt to lynch me out of emotional frustration.... then you don't have enough to guarantee the win.

But by all means, prove how awesome you are and vote me.

[DeasVail]

Tammy, I'm town.

[Benmage]

^There see.. Go re-re-re-read post 1865...epiphan-ize that statement.. and vote shadoweh.

@DV

If it aint llamarable vig... aint me, see the wire... if its not you, and you dont think its Tammy (see the wahmbulance)... It's likely, who?

[Shadoweh]

Alot of people pegged Nacho and CES. It's more important that you finish the job. Llamarble eliminated himself from your pool, so.. why aren't you voting Tammy? Beyond that you would never be able to push a lynch on her today and I'm easier. To me you're chickening out still.

Is any of the above paragraphs related to scumhunting? I have this sneaking suspicion it's a bunch of angry yelling. Deasvail, you know very well I'm not acting like scum. Are you going to say anything besides what you are here? It takes three votes to tango right now and Benmage is only one, even though he should be one of the ones knowing better. If two of you disagree with this we can actually lynch scum today, maybe.

[Shadoweh]

I can't reread Tammy for more then five seconds without wondering what I'm doing with my life. This happened last night too. Instead I think I'll reread all the scum together. If anyone wants to have a conversation about this you could present a case on me like rational mafians instead of voting because it HAS TO BE SHADOWEH OMG.

To answer Tammy's question about what the hell I'm doing, I haven't thought I have a chance at an endgame for at least two days, but luckily my win condition doesn't involve me being alive. Even if I can't convince you to stop voting me, I can try to influence that final day and all it's.. fun. Don't vote Benmage for being a douchebag. Look at his game here, compare it to what he was doing in The Wire. If you still want to vote him afterwards there isn't much I'll be able to do to stop it tomorrow, but I don't think they sound the same.

[Benmage]

Shadow who do you think is scum... cause you eliminate myself and llamarable.. u then say you cant read tammy... and tell DV he should be reading you town..

So.....

[Shadoweh]

Not that I can't read Tammy, but that I can't imagine her as scum while reading her. You'll have to wait like a normal person for me to finish my analysis.

[Shadoweh]

You know, I told one of my friends I'd be done reading mafia by now because four hours is ~*~crazy~*~. By the way, you all really like quote strips, right?

And obviously, I don't view my vote as opportunistic at all -- for example, I didn't vote DV because he's an "easy target" (and I'd argue that he isn't an easy target in this roster given that most everyone here knows him and how he plays).

That's my point. I think calling DV's vote on me opportunistic was a mischaracterization on your part (unless you think I'm an easy target for some reason). I'm willing to take it as a poor choice of words at this point though as your contributions apart from this issue have been decent.

unvote, vote: Llamarble

This is the only mention of Deasvail by CTD. It's remarkable in my opinion because every other person who attacked him was met with the hatred of a thousand dying sons, refutings and eventual suspicion heaped on them. Deasvail's vote is whatever.

DV's obviously made up excuse

This is not really a thing that happens, just fyi.

You're both missing the point. I don't want lurking to be rewarding. I don't think you should be able to deflect suspicion simply by not answering. Now penguin_alien has posted, and as I have a stronger scum read I'm happy with changing my vote.

I saw the reasoning you gave. I don't buy it.

I guess I'll dig around for meta.

meta to see if tierce is a sucker for V/LA excuses...?
also what made DV's excuse so fake to you?

(Note: Johhog voted for Deasvail) The first thing both scum do is jump on Johhog for attacking Deasvail. Not proof on its own.

Nacho, what do you think of Johhog's sudden unvote? It seems like he just wasn't paying attention, since I'm pretty sure I mentioned how I'd seen CTD massclaim before a couple of times, and I think he would maybe be more likely to pay attention as scum? Or at least put more effort into making sure what he was saying was backed up.

Not necessarily. I tend to think that mistakes are mistakes and not really indicative of alignment. I do think that him not reading your responses while he was voting penguin for lurking follows pretty nicely with my Johhog as scum train though.

maybe Penguin, but I don't think that's anything more than gut

I don't think penguin is scum, and I think her playstyle sets off gut like crazy. She doesn't post a whole lot, meaning that people who are paranoid about lurkers freak out, and she walls pretty hard, meaning people have a larger tendency to treat her essays and skim them, meaning that they are afraid they won't be able to read her. Criticizing you for not committing enough was a fine point; picking out CES for coasting was something I expected her to do but less likely to do as scum because of no one yelling at him for it, and the Llamarble vote is also for reasoning that I can see her picking up on. Her being "eh, don't really know what's going on" and not being at all concerned about the votes on her is A+ good and not what I expected if she was scum.

I appear to be the only person who saw something in Llamarble giving a pass to one person and not another for the same reason. Whichever. See petsPick for a game where I had a similar amount of joy being in the same thread as Ll.

DV wasn't even being assertive and contentwise he had doubleplusreasons to lie. The only way to get a contradiction out of it is a focus on form and doing no digging.

In Nacho's response to DV he cites Johhog voting DV as a bad thing, to reinforce the mislynch they were pushing for naturally, then when talking about pengu say that critizing DV and picking out CES for coasting are good points. The two points seems to contradict each other. CES is just reinforcing that DV is okay. (I have no idea what doubleplus is suposed to mean, can't you say very good like a normal person?)

Ok, I'm as updated as I can be with my reads and still support a Penguin lynch.

Could we get something more than this?

Deas, what's been going on with you lately?

I'm really sorry, I've been busy/lazy since uni started.
I feel ok with where my reads are at though. (I can never work out whether it's best to be open with them or closed, but if people want them I could probably post them Day 2)

I want them! I'm working on getting mine into something solid right now, so you wouldn't be alone if you decided to post them early.

DV actually posts reads here: #698 After this, Nacho posts his own reads post:

I like DV's play so far, although I expect I'll have a more solid read on him after he posts his reads. I like his N read although that's probably biased from us having the same thought process, and I like the paranoid response to Empire/Tierce attacking him for RVS. I don't like later jump off N, but it comes at a time that doesn't really serve a purpose as scum unless N is scum and he's trying to distance, which I seriously doubt since he's still putting penguin as scum higher than N and he's handing the cred for the change in his read to Empire pretty easily.

As you can see from above, Nacho never mentions it or them again. :V Says he's waiting for them, doesn't edit to reflect that HOW CAN HE POST HIS READS IF THEY'RE ALREADY THERE. This is a pattern that'll become obvious after a few more posts.

Penguin, you could do more to explain those Benmage, Empire, Tammy, Tierce, Vi townreads.

Cogito Ergo Sum--Not wild about him basing a lot of his reasoning off the idea that N, Vi, and I are a scum team, as I know that to be inaccurate. If he'd continued to push me, I'd find it more likely that he's a misguided townie; that he moved on to N and Vi and claims that I confirmed Vi was bussing N (really?) makes it feel like he has an excuse to push me and Vi if scumbuddy N gets run up. His avoiding what I consider to be a bad wagon with CrashTextDummie puts him slightly leaning town depending on how firmly he holds to his pet scum team theory.

Where are you getting the townread from?

DeasVail--Bugs me that he asked me about my reaction to his page one post, then said I'd thought about it too much. I still think that if he wanted it to be worth the confusion, he should have pursued it further, but then I don't have experience with making such moves myself, so it's more a point of interest by this time. Very slight townread, more for the first half of the day than the second.

Again, where does the townread come from?

I really hope he's not this cheekily obvious, asking why pengu thinks both his scum partners are town?

Anyway, I'm not going to spend too much time on this today, so going over ISOs will need to wait

I do want your reads as soon as possible.

This is the first mentiion of DV by either of the scum again, and it's basically the same question as before without acknowledging the original reads in the first place. The next thing Nacho does after this is not mention it and go V/LA for a week. :V Whether he liked the reads DV were posting or not, who knows, he obviously never really cared.

This is a terrible terrible point. Are you serious here? Firstly, I NEVER said I was lost. I said I was struggling in post 254, yet still managed to take several stances. Secondly, the contradiction you imply here is absolute bs, considering post 484 came after twice as many posts as post 254. Struggling on page 11 means I should also be struggling on page 20? No way. Come on now.

You weren't lost, but after 484 you immediately dropped back into the lost persona; you brought up a lot of new suspects after 484, but didn't really follow up on any of them until the recent DeasVail vote, you just kept pushing the CTD-penguin/scum N-town mantra that we heard already.

Nacho is back and attacking Wicked, and again this is the only mention of Deasvail, related to how Wicked is voting him at the moment. x2 chainsaw defense.

Llamarble get to keep their spots in the town pile!

Why?

Deasvail answers why here. Look forward to Nacho never mentioning it again.

Actually, to those on the CES wagon, why him over Nacho?

Why me in the first place?

Note that in between these posts Deasvail has been voting Nacho and saying he's not town for awhile. Yet this is the first time Nacho asks him anything, and it's in the middle of a wallpost to multiple other people.

Why me in the first place?

Pretty much covered in my last post. And no one is really that scummy.
I mean, I really want us to be town together and not lynch each other and stuff, but I kind of think you're scum here. If I'm wrong, can you please show me that I'm just being silly somehow?
And I really don't think Llamarble is scum either.

I can't show you how you're being silly if your case on me is "you're not acting town".

So what should I think then?

So what should I think then?

Something with an actual thought process?

Vote: DeasVail

I was hoping he would respond one more time before I put my vote here, but this feels like a better vote for today.

As some people mentioned, this wass about a day and a half before the day ended, and is pretty much why Nacho got owned as a wagon due to how bad it comes off. He did already have a 3 vote wagon and was CES's counterwagon at the end of the day. I know alot of people have said that this was him trying to push another lolquickwagon at the last minute, but considering how suspicious people were on him I don't think he had a chance of pulling this off with no one else's suport, and he had to have known that.

I mean, I really want us to be town together and not lynch each other and stuff, but I kind of think you're scum here. If I'm wrong, can you please show me that I'm just being silly somehow?

I didn't really like this at all because it seemed like Deas is voting me because I'm not really doing anything townish, which is hypocritical as all hell. The offer to hammer CES is also strange considering with the fixation on me; the timing itself was just weird.

This is him pushing the case, in a wallpost with other people. It's pretty bad reasoning and again no one is going to buy this.

I will at least spare recursiveness and just quote This as Nacho going through Deasvail's posts and finding things wrong with them. Other then Nacho going down like a pile of rocks and CES posting occasionally to say 'oh hey I'm still alive somehow' this is the end of their postings.

In total Nacho and CES are overly protective of Deasvail combined, CES never questions DV about anything, and Nacho just prods him for reads and never looks at him again. It's possible for them to be buddies. The last minute idiot case on DV would have to in that case be Nacho setting up last minute WIFOM by making it look like he totally would have lynched Deasvail at any time. The weirdest part to me is CTD because there's no reason for him to have been nice to Deasvail compared to everyone else who showed suspicion on him. I'm not sure if I'm convinced about this, but I definitely don't have another five hours tonight to look into what they said about Benmage.. or Tammy I guess.

The real problem is every time I passed by a Deasvail post between the scums it was al 'nooo I'm town don't lynch meee plz' but god damnit Deasvail this is WAR! Shine your shoes and get on the battlefield again!

[Shadoweh]

That's shocking, I managed to not screw up quotes once on that, that never happens. VOTECOUNTS

Day 1, Votecount 7

Nachomamma8

(1) -

N

Cogito Ergo Sum

(1) - Tammy

penguin_alien

(1) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

Deasvail (2) -

Konowa

,

Llamarble

Shadoweh (1) -

Wickedestjr

Llamarble

(7) - Benmage,

Empire

, Deasvail,

CrashTextDummie

,

Vi

,

penguin_alien

,

Tierce

Johhog (1) -

Nachomamma8

Empire

(1) - Shadoweh

For

Llamarble

. Unless you believe CTD is the only scum that was pushing you

Day 1, Votecount 31 aka End of Day Votecount

penguin_alien

(9) - Deasvail,

Konowa

, Shadoweh,

Llamarble

,

Wickedestjr

,

Nachomamma8

,

Vi

, Benmage,

Johhog

N (6) -

Tierce

,

CrashTextDummie

,

Empire

,

penguin_alien

, Tammy,

Cogito Ergo Sum

CrashTextDummie

(1) - N

CES commented that the end of day rush on pengu was probably driven by townies, which we can see was a lie thanks to Nacho here.

Day 2, Votecount 8

Vi

(3) - Benmage,

Cogito Ergo Sum

, Tammy

Cogito Ergo Sum

(3) -

Vi

,

OhGodMyLife

,

Tierce

Wickedestjr

(3) - Shadoweh,

Nachomamma8

,

Konowa

Konowa

(2) - Deasvail,

Llamarble

Deasvail (1) -

Wickedestjr

Mid day wagon placements. A common scum vote tactic is two on main wagons and one lounging on the side. Deasvail's vote placement here fits the pattern better.

Day 2, Votecount 15

Vi

(1) - Tammy

Untrod Tripod

(1) - Deasvail

Shadoweh (6) -

Tierce

,

Cogito Ergo Sum

,

Vi

,

Llamarble

,

Untrod Tripod

,

Empire

Benmage (3) -

Nachomamma8

,

OhGodMyLife

, Shadoweh

OhGodMyLife

(1) - Benmage

Little girl screaming position. Deasvail was stating his intent to vote me over Benmage at this point while staying comfy on his seat.

Day 2, Votecount 18

Untrod Tripod

(7) - Deasvail, Tammy,

Zackrulez

,

Tierce

,

Vi

,

Llamarble

, Benmage

Shadoweh (1) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

Benmage (3) -

Nachomamma8

,

OhGodMyLife

, Shadoweh

Cogito Ergo Sum

(1) -

Untrod Tripod

Actual end day wagon. Considering it was a quickwagon I'm not entirely surprised that it was a townie rush and Deasvail was there almost by accident.

Day 3, Votecount 7

Cogito Ergo Sum

(3) - Tammy,

Llamarble

, Shadoweh
Benmage (1) -

OhGodMyLife

OhGodMyLife

(2) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

,

Zackrulez

Nachomamma8

(2) - Benmage, Deasvail

Llamarble

(1) -

Nachomamma8

I'm just posting this to point out that no matter who the last scum is they were bussing by Day 3, at the start of the day.

Day 3, Votecount 15

Cogito Ergo Sum

(3) -

Llamarble

, Shadoweh,

OhGodMyLife

OhGodMyLife

(1) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

Nachomamma8

(6) - Benmage, Deasvail,

Tierce

, Tammy,

Empire

,

Zackrulez

Deasvail (1) -

Nachomamma8

Not voting (0) :

NO ONE

And no one cried a tear.

Day 4, Votecount 7 aka end of Day VC

Cogito Ergo Sum

(5) -

Empire

,

OhGodMyLife

, Benmage, Shadoweh,

Llamarble

Shadoweh (2) -

Tierce

, Tammy
Benmage (1) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

Not voting (1):

Deasvail

Appreciate the vote of confidence there Tammy. I don't think Deasvail even.. posted that day?

Day 5, Votecount 1

OhGodMyLife

(4) - Shadoweh,

Tierce

, Benmage,

Llamarble

Shadoweh (1) -

OhGodMyLife

Not voting (2) :

Deasvail, Tammy

I can't remember him saying this day either. Sorry DV! Considering the overwhelming opinion on OGML I wouldn't be surprised if this was all town either. It's not like we took a long time to talk about it. If I were a wizard I would conjure up some voting statistics that say who the scum are, but instead I'll have to point out that it would be fucking stupid to push the lynch from CES onto myself if I were his scum buddy instead of hammering onto the Benmage train, which would have to be town in that case, or onto UT if CES thought a quickwagon would take off.

Also thanks to Vi and replace all I messed up formatting this alot more then the other post. -.-

[DeasVail]

I could imagine Nacho being protective of me as a scumbuddy, but I really doubt CES would.

And Benmage, well that would leave Shadoweh I guess? I'm not sold on you being town though.

Oh, and I'm VT.

[Shadoweh]

Cross-referencing with Nacho indicates they were being hands off with each other until later days when not suspecting each other was impossible with the pools. CES was also defending Benmage though with his meta so..