Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 2.3

[8] nickthename (Faster Than Light, Nachomamma8, Andrius, BROseidon, Aj The Epic, Trust Fund, BeautyAndTheBeast, notscience)
[3] Malakittens (Mac, mastin2, Ghostlin)
[2] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, Malakittens)
[1] BeautyAndTheBeast (TiphaineDeath)
[1] Nachomamma8 (Venmar)

[3] Not Voting (Desperado, Mutleyddmc, nickthename)

With 18 alive, it is 10 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-09-11 09:30:00)

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

BROseidon, Trust Fund, mastin2, Ghostlin, zMuffinMan, Aj, Andy, Nacho, BaTB, NS
How many of these people are in your scum reads?

2, with a maybe on a 3rd, and i'm also reconsidering my reads on the rest.

i still think bro is scum, but i realise i probably can't get him lynched today

i'm not as fond of trust fund as others seem to be

Who's the maybe 3rd?

Also please explain what happened between these posts;

and so i'm left with: aj, mala, nick, venmar

I'm not currently reading nick or venmar as scum and I'm wavering on mala.

and the only reason i'm not avidly defending nick right now is because i'm not completely sure he's town.

what i'm still trying to figure out is why the nick wagon stalled d1 when it was competing with the rm wagon (i have a couple theories regarding this, but they require me being wrong about a couple of my town reads) and whether the interactions with rm makes sense as scum-scum interactions (i'm currently thinking no)

I went down to the store and got you something

[zMuffinMan]

Who's the maybe 3rd?

bro and aj are the 2, trust fund is the maybe 3rd

Also please explain what happened between these posts;

reading isos.

I went down to the store and got you something

i know. i hate not having clear reads but something feels off about this game and i'm trying to figure out where i've gone wrong.

[zMuffinMan]

if nick is town, what do you make of the wagon stalling when it was in competition with the rm wagon?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

reading isos.

Weak.

You know where you went wrong? When you stopped scumreading nick.

if nick is town, what do you make of the wagon stalling when it was in competition with the rm wagon?

I need the wagon to go through before any meaningful analysis can be made.

[zMuffinMan]

Weak.

*shrug*

If you consider the possibility that you're wrong and help me figure out what nick being town means for the rest of the game, then I will consider the possibility I'm currently over-thinking things.

I need the wagon to go through before any meaningful analysis can be made.

[7] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Aj The Epic, Nachomamma8, TiphaineDeath, Ghostlin)
[5] nickthename (mastin2, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Faster Than Light, Mutleyddmc)
[3] Andrius (Trust Fund, Malakittens, RachMarie)
[2] mastin2 (BROseidon, nickthename)
[1] BROseidon (Sound of Silence)
[1] Mutleyddmc (Saki)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Venmar)

[1] Not Voting (Mac)

[Nachomamma8]

Do you have any scumreads on that 5 person wagon?

[zMuffinMan]

no. that's why i'm trying to figure out what was going on.

either the rm wagon was an elaborate bus
or scum wasn't very active at the time these wagons were occurring
or scum didn't want to take a contradictory stance to one they'd already taken on nick
or i'm wrong about my town reads

[Faster Than Light]

I leave for a day and then the thread grows ten pages on me?

Thoughts as I catch up

2815 : I hate nachoparanoia more than I hate being paranoid of any other player in this game.

2824 : How could you hate this lovable guy? Besides, he's harmless. Plain. Nachos sans cheese. Lacks the Vitriol and OOMPH~ that a scummy Nacho has, too.

2831 and 2847 are fucking spectacular. While Nacho's rambling about meta on people, B&B's doing some fucking work. Also, it helps that I've wanted Nick lynched for awhile now, and his recent activity doesn't help his cause. The whole deal with everyone calling him scum but not voting him reminds me of the Rach wagon, too.

2862 : Seriously, Andy, I want to buy you a drink. Dat TK.


2913 and the Bork reactions had me in stitches. Shit's priceless.

So, my responses to this all and more?
B&B's interactions with everyone are amazing. Especially this Zmuffin one. I love the take-no-prisoners approach.
Venmar lynch is a shitty lynch for today. It's high risk and low reward and Venmar's actually been playing the game today, so I'd rather not risk a mislynch on him, esp. if he is PGO. In fact, I think calling out the validity of his claim is just going back to the start of D1, and I'd like to think we made some fucking progress from there when, y'know, we caught scum.
Nacho lynch is a shitty lynch for today. Nacho's a strong town player and I've already been over why he's town. If push comes to shove, I'll defend Nacho like a madman in this game.
Notscience is kid Goku. One day, he'll be a Super Sayain.
Nick's still my pick for today's lynch. He's been really quiet and snippy with people like Mastin, which makes me wonder if he's trying to coast and hope the wagon'll go away or what.

[Andrius]

2862 : Seriously, Andy, I want to buy you a drink. Dat TK.

omg YOU GOT MY REFERENCE
<333 IM BUYING YOU A DRINK TOO

[Faster Than Light]

So long as all my bells and whistles are in order, I get paid tomorrow.
I'm serious, I'll buy you something.

[zMuffinMan]

makes me wonder if he's trying to coast and hope the wagon'll go away

................

YEAH, because that works ALL THE TIME

nick must be a next-level scum player

[nickthename]

[Nick's] been really quiet and snippy with people like Mastin, which makes me wonder if he's trying to coast and hope the wagon'll go away or what.

I've been quiet mostly because it's pretty clear no one is planning on listening to what I have to say. I can't really find any real substantiated reasons for voting me, so there's not a hell a lot of debate to be done. Most of the people that were scumreading me were initially doing so pretty lightly (from what I could tell), and they're now voting for me because it's easier than explaining why they aren't, when faced with someone loud and town like B&B. Not a hell of a lot for me to do, really. If I scumread people that are popular scum reads it will be called sheeping or just trying to create a counter wagon, and if I scumread people that aren't popular lynch targets they'll just be ignored, so there's no real reason to bother scumhunting if all my hard work is going to go for nothing. Maybe i'm just tired and I'll have more to say in the morning, I don't know.

As to mastin, his ego is just so huge that I love to take the chance to poke him.

inb4 this is AtE. Yeah, I know how pushing a lynch goes.

[Faster Than Light]

That's some next-level posting if I've ever seen it.
It's hard to refute, though.
But, Nick, where is the furor? Where is the passion!? Get up and give hell to those fuckers who don't have a substantial reason for voting you! Make your cases! Soldier onward, damn it!
Just rolling over like that,
What's the point?

-V

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

If you consider the possibility that you're wrong and help me figure out what nick being town means for the rest of the game, then I will consider the possibility I'm currently over-thinking things.

How about we go with the more likely and logical answer that nick is scum, and

if

he flips town we can consider the implications.

I need the wagon to go through before any meaningful analysis can be made.

[7] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Aj The Epic, Nachomamma8, TiphaineDeath, Ghostlin)
[5] nickthename (mastin2, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Faster Than Light, Mutleyddmc)
[3] Andrius (Trust Fund, Malakittens, RachMarie)
[2] mastin2 (BROseidon, nickthename)
[1] BROseidon (Sound of Silence)
[1] Mutleyddmc (Saki)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Venmar)

[1] Not Voting (Mac)

You were dropped on your head as a child, weren't you?

If I scumread people that are popular scum reads it will be called sheeping or just trying to create a counter wagon, and if I scumread people that aren't popular lynch targets they'll just be ignored

Have you tried scumreading scumreads? That tends to be the most... oh, what's the word I'm looking for?

Genuine

town attitude.

[Mutleyddmc]

Nacho..... you scum bro?

[notscience]

^That tis the question

[Faster Than Light]

nacho is extra townacho vanillager and anybody who is scumreading him has sucky reads/not enough nacholove


I am a sonic

one day when I find the 7 chaos emeralds I will become a super sonic

[Aj The Epic]

Remember, a lot of us had Nick as a secondary or tertiary scum read. I think I mentioned yesterday in that post I drew the quick little connection chart up that he was a suspect about four back because I couldn't piece a place for him. He's certainly been scummy at a glance and even at an iso, but nick generally is closer to TD and even Bro through his whole iso, which is a bit off from my Mala:Rach scum duo with possibilities from Nacho. And since I'm reading TD as town and Bro as somewhere at a town lean, the best that could be is buddying. Yet they aren't the smartest to buddy with as TD and Bro have taken a goodly amount of heat throughout the whole day.

[zMuffinMan]

How about we go with the more likely and logical answer that nick is scum

i don't think it is necessarily the most likely/logical answer

He's certainly been scummy at a glance and even at an iso

expand on this

also, i don't see what the point of your #2993 is. seems like a lot of talking about nothing, and no conclusion, except that he may have been buddying except that doesn't make sense and so maybe he wasn't and so maybe he is scum but he doesn't make as much sense as scum with your other scum suspect and flipped scum and waffle waffle waffle

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

[Nick's] been really quiet and snippy with people like Mastin, which makes me wonder if he's trying to coast and hope the wagon'll go away or what.

I've been quiet mostly because it's pretty clear no one is planning on listening to what I have to say. I can't really find any real substantiated reasons for voting me, so there's not a hell a lot of debate to be done. Most of the people that were scumreading me were initially doing so pretty lightly (from what I could tell), and they're now voting for me because it's easier than explaining why they aren't, when faced with someone loud and town like B&B. Not a hell of a lot for me to do, really. If I scumread people that are popular scum reads it will be called sheeping or just trying to create a counter wagon, and if I scumread people that aren't popular lynch targets they'll just be ignored, so there's no real reason to bother scumhunting if all my hard work is going to go for nothing. Maybe i'm just tired and I'll have more to say in the morning, I don't know.

As to mastin, his ego is just so huge that I love to take the chance to poke him.

inb4 this is AtE. Yeah, I know how pushing a lynch goes.

even if you are lynched you can still help town. town wins as a team and loses as a team. you can composite a list of your reads and things to look into. <------ that is playing to a town wc.

shutting down and doing nothing is playing to a scum 1 cos you are not providing any info through reads

or

interactions.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

How about we go with the more likely and logical answer that nick is scum

i don't think it is necessarily the most likely/logical answer

---

To those trying to argue against joining a nick wagon because he's a secondary/tertiary scum read; IT'S STILL A SCUM READ, AND THE WAGON SUPPORT IS THERE.

WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION, NUMBNUTS?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

after a good long night's sleep I am off of the nacho paranoia. he hasn't reached out to me except for that 1 time but he definitely reached out to sound and actively worked with them on reads. he is town and will everyone remind me of this when I start to eat paranoia flakes again.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

since you are not on gchat and I can't talk to you

MAJIFFY WILL YOU PRETTY PLZ WITH A KISS JUST LEAVE MUFFIN ALONE!!!!!!!!

ty

[Aj The Epic]

Muffin, 2993 was my explanation to why the nick wagon had died out in favor of Andrius/Rach wagons. As I've said, Nick isn't my first or second choice, but I am pretty certain BnB is town, so I'm fine with helping them if they help me. As I stated, my theory is Rach:Mala, with an outside chance of Nacho. But throughout the last two days, some of the confirmed town have had had issues with Nick (and I had issues at the begining of D1 up until Mala joined). Between Mastin, Thez, BnB and notscience, there are multiple people who I know or trust to be town that were on his case and so I'm willing to have a lynch on Nick. So no, I'm not waffling. I'm here to get nick lynched, even if he isn't my first or second choice, because again, it advances my own goal to have support to get Mala lynched.

Do I think Nick is scum? I wouldn't be surprised if he was. His posting hasn't been fantastic (As I will expand upon seeing as you so kindly asked) but it would be a little bit of a curve ball to my own thinking if he turned up scum. Throughout, as I've stated, his only consistent interactions with town reads are Bro and TD, both of which I have at varying degrees of town.

So after quoting through his iso, I found one post on top of what I saw that I really didn't like before (it's the last one in this, and I believe it's out of order so I can address it a bit more)

Spoiler:

would it help if I told you we have a hydra together that we regularly use? if he starts to look scummy to me you will be the first to know.

Flip town and we'll talk. Until then, I'll trust my own reads over unconfs', no matter how good you think you are at reading him.

First off, on policy I don't like this. He's basically said he won't work well with others no matter what, and won't consider their opinions until they're dead. It may be a way of completely disregarding BnB or it could be to get Mollie so irritated, she's make a mistep and look bad for it. Either or, it's bad and comments like this just shouldn't exist in a game that requires considering other people's opinion.

NickTheName, am I correct that you don't have a completed scum game at MS? Have you played a scum game on another site?

nometa4you

Another post of nick trying to be generally unhelpful, although this one is slightly more telling if he has a noticeable difference in town/scum meta. When Mollie mentions she has meta on Nick, Nick completely blows her off again.

I want to work with you and him. I have Malakittens as scum, and obviously nickthename as scum, both in Majiffy's scum-pile, but I'm going to have difficulty working with you and him if he's calling me scum.

"I'm buddying you really hard, can I be town now?" Also, I don't like the implication that you won't be able to work with them unless they post reading you as town.

[5] Faster Than Light (thezmon221,

Malakittens

, Skullduggery, TiphaineDeath,

nickthename

)

Bad wagon is bad and incredibly scumdriven.

[4] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Faster Than Light)

Replacement wagon is bad and the best names on there are FtL (a minor townread) and MuffinMan (also minor townread), which is

generally a

very bad sign

.

[3] nickthename (Aj The Epic, mastin2, notscience)

Epic wagon is epic. Made up of a player who everyone (be it via play or meta) is calling town and with TWO conftown backing it.
The Malakittens wagon is a decent alternative, though.

You slip in saying that you're conf-town and comment on the mala wagon without looking at the votes on it, which I'd like you to do.

(See. This is me lying. This is me showing a bit more confidence, even though I'm actually having less and less confidence. I told you it'd be closer to the me you're used to, despite it being a lie. )

So you're lying that you're confident while pushing wagons? Dunno how people don't think this is obv scum.
VOTE: Mastin

1st quote section: That's not even close to what Mastin was doing. Nick's basically misrepped Mastin here. The second part of that sentence is ironic giving the fact he flat out refused to be helpful to SoS or BnB.
2nd part is irrelevant besides calling oneself conf-town isn't a slip.
3rd part is what makes this. He constantly bugs Mastin about how mastin is faking confidence and therefore is lying. Ergo, nick suggests, LaL. Confidence is something that can be faked and not be indicative at all to anything. I mean, mastin's already told us that he's having a bit of issues getting into the game here, and personally, his confidence is a lot better than someone just reading 'null this, null that, null all the things'.

Regardless, you can't lynch based on lying about confidence. It's stupid.

@1381
Wow, you managed to make an entire reads list without saying or committing to anything. Scummy, although I don't know the meta, maybe this is par for the course. I don't think Rach is a very good D1 lynch though, but if she keeps sitting on the fence day 2 i'll most certainly want to lynch her then.

We should be lynching Mastin

This.

Alright. This is part of the two-post important special for Nick and the main foundation of anything I have for him. First, we see he DISLIKES Rach's read list (which, fyi, is worse than anything Mastin put up this game), but denies that Rach is a good d1 lynch, saying they should be lynching mastin (off of wagon support formed from that '5 scum' comment mastin had). But,

I don't understand the Andrius case and don't like this idea of lynching Rach today. That said, I'd prefer Rach to nothing, so I guess I'll vote her, unless something convinces me Andrius is scum, which is actually possible, since I perhaps if someone actually explains that case I'll understand it.

I don't think Rach is a very good D1 lynch though

Why not?

Rach hasn't provided much content at all today, her reads sit on the fence so hard it's ver difficult to tell what she thinks of anyone. However, she has promised better reads and commentary day 2.

I agree that her behavior today has been scummy,

but hear me out.

Assume for the sake of argument that she doesn't provide any useful content during the rest of Day 1, which I think is a fairly passable assumption considering her current behavior.
During day 2, if she still fails to provide any useful content, we lynch her.
If she does provide useful content day 2, we should be able to use that content to get a more accurate read on her. If we decide she's town, we avoid a mislynch. If scum, we still lynch her, but now we have her better reads to use against her partners.

---

It's plainly obvious to me that a mac lynch isn't going to happen, so i'm in favor of a mastin lynch.

His reads look very artificial

, mimicking popular town ideas without providing any decent reasons, and his posts are largely useless and fluffy, either in the form of talking about how towny he is, talking about

how he has secret reads he won't tell us

, or talking about how he's lying about how confident he is. This comes accross to me as scum trying to look engaged while lacking any real scumhunting.

As to Andy, I need to Iso him again, if anyone could post a non-meta based case against him, that would be nice.

Bad all around. First, he suggests leaving a 'scummy player' around to get a better read on her. He suggests multiple times he sees her as scummy, but doesn't want her dead day 1. Now with her flip, I can almost tie Nick to Rach just for this. He's protecting a buddy. More than that, he's giving her a chance at a free pass in his mind, in favor of a mastin lynch which is made worse by his three expressed reasons.

1: Artificial reads. This really isn't true. Mastin had been giving and re-explaining reads all day. Plus, as mentioned by me (and Nick!) Rach's reads are awful. Terrible amounts of coaching would've gone on in the scum qt had Rach lived.
2: Lying about confidence. Come on, I explained this: You don't employ LaL for this.
3. Looking engaged, no scum hunting: Mastin was the first to voice that he thought Nacho/Rach could be a thing. He admitted that he was having trouble with this game at the begining and Nick has unfairly tried to pin this as an issue when, guess what, Rach had the same issue without ever trying to fix it. This post willingly admits that Nick has a connection to Rach.