A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Nautilius]

You can keep creating your false dichotomy and keep pushing that one of them should be lynched today, but two fake claimers isn't a sure scum detection and is no different over your confidence in TA scum.

[Nautilius]

Llamarble, you will be my official Messiah Complex-czar for tomorrow after I die. Do you accept?

[Alfred Borden]

Meh. I don't want to unvote Benmage.
Scum don't go as low as pretending to have whined at the mod very often but Benmage is special.
Scum Benmage can claim that guilty, blame others for all problems, and self vote?
He comes up with it in the wake of Ooba fakeclaiming.
Meh. I don't buy that as :antics: from scum.

VOTE: Messiah Complex
I can Czar it. Or we can do it today.

TA, Can you be specific about what information you received (or didn't) from the mod regarding your kill attempt?

[Nautilius]

TA lynch is properly vetted and ready to go through. Would also like to take out ninja today because Cephrir.

[Nautilius]

Tierce did say that the scum she shot had a one-shot kill proof if in the game, so TA wouldn't have any idea about the names.

[Titus]

You can keep creating your false dichotomy and keep pushing that one of them should be lynched today, but two fake claimers isn't a sure scum detection and is no different over your confidence in TA scum.

You say nothing against my common sense proposition that there's no town motivation behind ooba and Benmage's actions. If you explain WHY it is a false dichotomy, you might get somewhere.

[Nautilius]

You seemed to find town motivation in ooba claim, considering you didn't push him to a lynch yesterday. Or even mention him, really. And if ooba has possibilities of town motivation, so does Benmage!

[Nautilius]

Like you can't just look at two people who did scummy thing X and claim scum in them just because X is a scummy thing to do.

[Titus]

Naut, no. Benmage is n a different position than ooba's claim. Ooba just fakeclaimed. Then Benmage. I am not asking you for innuedo about it's posssible. Show me the motivation. I don't see it.

[The Alchemist]

Magua can blow me, inc megapost

[Titus]

vla until December 24

Going to see my mom and Sister. I will try to squeeze in posting. This is an every game vla. If I miss one and you're in that game, feel free to notify the mod.

[Magua]

Magua can blow me, inc megapost

You don't have anywhere near enough money.

Think Titus is town.

Bedtime now.

[Messiah Complex]

Unlike some, not afraid to get everything out there (I did try to persist we should earlier).

I've also got a one-shot doc and I have no idea on who to use it on tonight to prevent mylo/lylo..

Tammy then Tierce dying is no coincidence, MC and Shadow have been rather skating and for such a strong, common, early town read Cephrir is still around. Then there's the whole Nacho/Borden thing, there's gotta be scum there and of course in the liars and lurkers. Think since I'm still here, may as well completely reset reads and do a massive re-read too.

I see no compelling reason not to mass claim today.

I plan on ISOing everyone, because this really is going to shit. I'm lost and confused and I don't understand

how the last few lynches have all been town.

Benmage, I hate you. FYI.

I can help there:

Day 5 - PnJ speedlynched before all the playerlist comes in (town)
Day 6 - Nacho creates the 1v1 with Goat to get him lynched (town)
Day 7 - Ooba fakes guilty on Kanye to get him lynched (town)
Day 8 - Benmage fakes guilty on GR to get him lynched (town)

Also there was a point yesterday where the GR wagon stalled and people were calling him town, has to be more to do with knowledge than reads you would think.

Massclaim is dumb. Near as I gather, all town claims so far have been met with, "Lol stupid fakeclaim die scum oh shit they were town," then repeat, helped by ooba and Benmage. Given the no role flip, limited shot setup, I have zero conviction that we'd be trapping any scum in a lie and so it'd just let them know more of the setup with no gain for us.

[1] Loosely interpreted.

There's a few more out there but really the advantages of massclaiming now is that it can be the last chance to do so before we get to an end game situation. It is better having the information out there now then just releasing it when it is most beneficial for scum to bullshit. Tie people down to role claims, try and figure it out and leave the only manipulation by scum to the night, as opposed to any mylo/lylo scenario. The more hoops we can try and get scum to jump through, the less we have to jump through ourselves.

I am sick of these half-arsed claims, I was sick of having mine out there for so long (didn't think I'd live past D1) but feel no remorse over it considering what's happened this game and the aversion people have had.

People like Messiah have been skimming since the start, others have been backing others actions for *reasons* (eg GR & Tierce; Ceph,Nacho & Titus). Shadoweh is even trolling now. ("Ice skating. I'm sure someone will be an obvious target by the end of the day. ").

Heck considering she's effectively Vig claimed, she's the leading candidate for a modified SK. Actually surprised Omar isn't in this game considering the runups that have occurred.

Ooba, you need to drop the hell out of your two scumteam theory until evidence of it arises.

You want evidence of the two scumteams - you lynch Benmage. Not my fault both teams can't crosskill properly.

Night 2 - macmollie killed
Night 4 - blocked by Titus
Night 6 - AGar killed
Night 8 - Tierce killed

Night 1 - BP eaten up by Tierce
Night 3 - ???
Night 5 - ??? (blocked by Agar?)
Night 7 - Tammy killed

After solid days of plays, Reads!Ooba kinda turned into Theories!Ooba, didn't he?

Glad you're admitting to having no evidence for this theory.

And here we were still trying to clean the mud off our faces from the first time you threw some our way without any sort of fucking backing to what you were saying. How exactly do you describe skating and skimming, cause I think that our definitions would be vastly different, unless of course you see opposing lynches on people we see as town, and in like 80% we are right, or defending you early in the game when town was getting ready to vote through a mislynch, or in pushing scum that was unpopular to push because "OMG Guyz, Spyspy is like a God around here, even if they do scummy as shit things we are willing to keep them around in case they are town." So if that is what you mean by skating, then yes we have been skating. If you have a different way of thinking on that one, please let us know cause we are all fucking ears on this one.

@Ooba

- Please stop pushing the 2 scum team theory you have going here, its predicated upon nothing more than conjecture at this point, much like Tierce eating the N1 kill which is solely a theory itself given the track record of kills in this game.

@Ben

- Where were you when we were fighting with multiple people on our Alfred read? You seem to be looking around for people to back you up here and you were nowhere to be found when we were pushing that read. It seems like you should have reached out at the time so that we could line up shoulder to shoulder and take the fight to them even if we were outnumbered against "superior" forces.

[The Alchemist]

Problem #1: 3000 fucking scumreads. Scummy by itself? No. Scummy when considered of the context that he's done jack fuck to narrow the list? Hell fuck yes.

Problem #2: Reaction to scumslip. As town, when somebody else goes up to me and says "LOL YOU SCUMSLIPT LOL", the immediate town reaction (in my humble 13er opinion) is some variant of "lolthefuckyousmokintierce".

What did we get? "What? I scumslipped? Where?" *looks for scumslip for 20 minutes* "Oh, you mean that?" *proceeds to overexplain scumslip*

Hmm...

Problem #3: Best reasoning for anybody being in his scumlist is "X is most likely to flip scum." No reason X is scum. No indication of thought process. No indication of scumhunting. Hell, corollary to that, there's no reason anybody in his list is any alignment. The moral of the story: THERE'S NO INDICATION OF THOUGHT PROCESS OR ANY KIND OF ALIGNMENT HUNTING IN HIS READS LIST OR ISO.

Questions?

Case #2 is made because a player wasn't making an effort to narrow the list of scumreads (doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering Syryana had a small scum pool when he made his list and didn't appear to be making an effort to increase his pool of scumreads).

The scumslip reaction point is decent, but nothing that gives me confidence he could possibly be town.

The no indication of alignment hunting in his ISO is decent, maybe, but it also ignores a lot of lurkfucks.

I haven't the foggiest what you're trying to say here. You're accusing me of hypocrisy, I guess? If I twist my head slightly and squint it appears you're saying that there's nothing in that case that makes you think I'm town. I'll assume that's what you meant and add to this later.

As for Cephrir, my primary reason for scumreading him is because I recently saw him up close and personal as town, and this ain't

nothin

like I saw him play.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

It's a bit of reading, but Ceph is laid-back, personable, pops his reads out here and there, scumhunts in a leisurely fashion, etc.

Here? His tone's completely different; he's very serious, almost formal. He's been super serious in his interactions and has been almost totally oblivious to the tempo of the thread; none of the playful banter present in 527, ignoring all the trolling going on, etc. Hell, he's so profoundly literal this game that he latches onto my mollie troll, takes it seriously, and proceeds to agree with the dislike of lurking

right after saying he's seen nothing townish from me.

(which is another reason i think he's scum but it helps my tone point so dealwithit)

His ISO also feels superficial as hell. Like, I dunno how better to describe it. It's that he's trying so HARD to look town. I feel like it's all an act. There's a bunch of on the surface scumhunting, but I don't get a thought process from it. It's just a bunch of stuff. Take his Nautilus read for example. He's got Nacho as "town as fuck", yet in his ISO he interacts with them in one post. In that post, he gives a bunch of responses to Nautilus, but reading them doesn't really give me that good "holy shit I think Nacho is so fucking town" feeling. This is true of much in his reads list; the people he takes stances on are ones he's hardly interacted with and the ones he's interacted with the most (i.e. Thor) is in his null list!

In short, Cephrir isn't playing the way I know he plays as town, he's too serious, and his ISO is devoid of any kind of discernible thought process.

And, number three! It's not an absolutely horrible case, but it's based mostly on gut.

Now, these three posts constitute the majority of content in Syryana's ISO, if not the entirety of anything worth reading. But, if we're looking for nuggets:

Again with the whole not really saying anything bit. "It ain't bad, but it's gut based"? Did you miss the whole tonal analysis bit? Should I have thrown in meta to back it up? What is it you'd have expected from Town-Syr? Last I checked, gut suspicions transformed into a case is sort of my modus operandi. But what the hell do I know about my own meta, right?

Your quoted cases here (you missed the first one, by the by) don't really seem to accomplish anything except to give you something to insert snide little comments like "mostly gut-based" and "nothing that really gives me that town feeling". The second is particularly a flat out lie, considering this:

tammy it is bothering me that tierce did not address my question about you except to blow it off and then syrlacious still...trolls.

am I being overly paranoid

oh and can you stop pestering the love of my life?
merciless trolling with minimal content is a mode of Syr-town and I <3 it.

Syryana hit his good stride in about #660, I think, and hasn't lost it since. His posts after that are fucking on fire and I feel the same dancing beat that he feels in my heart so you can take the townread as one of the reads I could probably bullshit pretty hard but the truth is that it's a matter of the heart and I trust the little blood pumping motherfucker.

...huh. I'd swear you thought I was town. Yet, if I recall correctly, your above case to this point says you never saw anything in me that you thought could have been town. Maybe you changed your mind shortly thereafter?

Nautcho, what about Tammy's explanation switched you off of Alchemist?

This doesn't really feel like Syryana's scumplay; I can't really see him showing up in thread just to give Tierce the middle finger and then disappearing back into the dark inky abyss.

They aren't my strongest Townread by far, and probably fall among the chaff that needs to be culled if the game isn't over at some point, but I don't think they're scum.

As long as you have this perspective, you're still alright with me.

I'm willing to vote The Alchemist as soon as someone tells me why Syryana wouldn't give his coin to a buddy and just stay quiet about it. Do you think Faraday told him he couldn't give the coin to buddies? Because that just sounds stupid.

He could have given it to me, who wouldn't have shot one of his buddies. Why wouldn't he have done that?

...and almost four thousand posts later, you're still defending me. Why the hell would you defend a scumread? Why does your "case" as to why I'm scum imply you never thought I was town when you've been hard defending me all game? Let's set that aside as well and continue through your case.

Oh, please. That is a hell of a push on AGar, truly impressive.

Considering you've come out of hiding purely to mislynch two, almost three townies now, you're running a great track record yourself.

I don't think that this is something Syryana says to a townTierce. I don't think that Syryana would fire back when he knows he's lazy and playing like shit to the whole "well you've mislynched people!". In HunterxHunter when he got lazy as fuck, I do remember him pulling a bit of a "oh hello hello I'm being lazy as fuck so kill me" act, but never do I remember him ignoring the fact that he isn't doing shit and discrediting someone else (a friend, no less) and saying that they are mislynching people.

This was copied and extrapolated almost directly from a post in Tierce's ISO. I forget which one it was and frankly can't be arsed to look it up at the moment. Two points of interest about this here: first, Tierce (whose name you've incidentally been waving about like some long-dead saint's underdrawers) initially made this point, yet ultimately didn't believe I was scummy for it. Why? Note the lack of Alchemist votes in her ISO. If she'd thought I was scum, she'd have voted me. Simple. Easy. Point number two, compare the above quote to this one:

Nautcho, what about Tammy's explanation switched you off of Alchemist?

This doesn't really feel like Syryana's scumplay; I can't really see him showing up in thread just to give Tierce the middle finger and then disappearing back into the dark inky abyss.

Well. Why the change of heart, old boy? You didn't think I was scummy for it then, why do you now? (Note: I'm leading up to a theme here, can you guess which one?)

VOTE: quadz

No defense, no questions. Clearly caught scum here.

This reads a bit strange to me, considering he wasn't pushing any sort of case on quadz earlier (when I was suggesting that I no longer thought quadz was town for shitty moonlogic, Syryana event went "well a bunch of other people were pushing moonlogic earlier"). He'd later jump onto quadz, sure, but the timing of this is still pretty strange.

I don't think I've pushed a case on anybody since Day 1, excepting possibly Titus. How does this make me scum? Furthermore, I was asking you that because I was beginning to suspect quadz. You reinforced that suspicion with your comment about the moonlogic (I was concerned he wasn't town precisely for that reason), but your comment about his scum meta being lurky as hell and generally nothing like his play here assuaged it to the point I discarded my suspicions and figured "hell with it, he's probs town". Of course, all you have for this is my word, as I never bothered to document my thought process ITT. Take it as you will.

Alchemist - you know what I am. Taking into account a swingy upick that has some claimed bastardish time elements, and taking into account roles before alignments, what do you think the likelihood of me

(Town!)

, a macho cop

(Town!)

, a permanent roleblocker

(Town!)

, a global roleblocker

(Scumfuck!)

, and a joat with a roleblock

(Scumfuck!)

all being on the same team is! I might need help before I jump down the rabbit hole.

There you go. As to your question of does it make sense to have all that shit on one side, nope nope nope (scum would get REKT, town would be essentially vanilla against all that)! Dive gracefully into the rabbit-hole, ex-wife!

And then, immediately after this, he suggests quadz is town again for claim. We all know Syryana has a weak point for calling his partners town for their fakeclaims when they probably won't get lynched when they make them, but the complete readflip is again a bit strange.

Your perspective here seems to be a "how does this fit scum-Syr" instead of "how does this make Syr scum". I more or less answered the part about quadz just a moment ago. Saying I townread quadz for his claim is an oversimplification even without my thought process documented in thread, and your second sentence is particularly guilty of confirmation bias at the very least.

The part that resonated with me is that he usually gives up when guilted this late in the game. I'm probably going to lynch Syryana tomorrow regardless of what the hell happens.

Yer like four Days late on that one mate.

And again, a case of not the response I was expecting. Me saying that I was going to policy lynch Syryana was more of a testing for reactions as opposed to a serious charge (I happily defended the fuck out of him in HunterxHunter because he was infinite town then), but him sort of shrugging at my suggestion and going with "yeah you're a bit too late on that one" seems less like a normal reaction to me and more like a lazy scum reaction because he knows he still has a decent chance of surviving a couple more days thanks to noise noise noise.

My lazy scum reaction is to not post at all, as you very well know. Second, your policy lynch suggestion was not a reaction test and we both know it. If it was a reaction test, you'd not only have said so then but you wouldn't have bothered to say it again here:

This game pisses me off so horribly based on how beautifully it started that I am probably willing to burn a policy lynch today. On Syryana. And Jesus fuck I never thought I would say that.

If the first post was a reaction test and I failed, why on earth didn't you say it immediately? I'll tell you why. It's because that post and the following one were leading up to (trajectory change! <3 fery) this lovely masterwork of a shitpot case calling me scum. Reaction test my ass, you just didn't want it to look weird when the Syr-scum-case popped out. I'll elaborate after your second half.

n1 elle had not killed anyone
n2 goat had not killed anyone
n3 quadz had not killed anyone
n4 pnj, resulted in "VICTARION"
n5 alfred had not killed anyone
n6 ceph had not killed anyone

Second piece of the case on him is this. Quadz, on N3, hadn't killed anyone. Now quadz on N3 hadn't under an approximate fuckton of pressure, but he wasn't at all in a better position than any of his other scumteam members. Zdenek? Ooba? Benmage? Cephrir? No, no, no. What would make sense is Alchemist submitting the kills because he's a ninja, and quadz not doing so as a result. This theory would make kkb's results useless, but I think it makes sense given the quadz result on N3 especially (and maybe even the alfred result for some of you for still suspect the hell out of him).

Side note: these results aren't useless, because I'm not scum.

REMEMBER THIS IF/WHEN I DIE

There is a hoop to jump through in order to believe Alchemist-scum that comes in the form of Tammy and "why give coin to town?", but let's talk about both of those things now. For one, immediately jumping out of the neighborhood with Tammy in order to be a useless shit and pretend to be not-Syryana is scummy. Why not use his free vig kill as an additional scumkill? Well, there is the matter of being neighborized by Tammy before he could even give it away, needing something to claim, and then not being able to make a magical kill appear without Tammy being dead. Scumteam might have had different priorities Night 1, didn't want to kill Tammy like that, so Syryana went for the towncred route. It's also a bit... strange? He waited so long to give his coin away/didn't look for someone to give his coin to? If town, he would be wanting to pass his coin off early and get a kill early, but talk of passing it off only came after he claimed, which again is strange.

Boiling it down:
1)immediately jumping out of the neighborhood with Tammy in order to be a useless shit
I jumped out of the neighborhood due to the fact that it turned us into lovers, which we explained. The useless shit was due to a combination of RL reasons, pissiness with the Thor lynch and more recently, quitting Mafia altogether. Not scummy.

2)pretend to be not-Syryana is scummy
Pretending to be someone else when handed a golden opportunity to do so is scummy coming from someone who's a known troll? (Or at least known for trolling, I do actually play Mafia from time to time)

3) didnt give the coin away for so long
Well, yeah. Nobody knew anyone else's name, which the coin-kill was completely dependent on. I in fact gave it away at the earliest opportunity I had to know someone else's name: Tierce's mention of knowing a name. I didn't give it to Tammy because I suspected she'd be an early NK and cause the only names we knew were each others' (can't remember if she mentioned it ITT or in the QT). There was no point in flavor fishing early on to throw the coin out there, for obvious reasons.

Again, you're cramming me into the scum-mold while flat out ignoring all the inconsistencies. Gotta run fast over that thin ice, eh?

Meta Reasons:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Here is a newbie game where Syryana quickhammered a jailkeeper on D1 in a newbie game. There are his normal townmarkers of posting more content in this newbie game than he has in a 228 page Large Theme with a great playerlist, but the biggest takeaway that I got from his play in this game is his play after the quickhammer; he realizes that he did something stupid, plays townie as hell and ends up getting nightkilled because of his aggression and the fact that he managed to outplay so many others despite the bumpy start that would get most players lynched. I think that Syryana does care about the town when he plays, and is willing to admit where he's experiencing failings in his play and adjust as a result; the fact we're seeing no such evidence here is alarming as hell.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Here is an open game where I ended up pegging the fuck out of him D1 for "not trolling". I think this scumgame significantly changed Syryana's scumgame in a way where he realized that opening "feelings" were just as important to his scumgame as producing words and pushing lynches were. It would explain why his opening was so trolly, so playful; he might have been trying to avoid the pitfall that happened this game. I will also note that his content is a bit lacking in this game (in part due to V/LA, but also in part due to being scum), although he did end up producing more content in this scumgame than he has here (which isn't a good thing, I promise you).

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This is an old but pretty impressive scumgame of Syryana's. The similarities in this game compared to that game are the periods of inbetween, where he doesn't feel so much like posting. He doesn't mind coasting for short periods of time when he can get away with it, doesn't mind bussing a partner whenever they fuck up. Multiball, so easier to legitimately scumhunt.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Jokey opening, nothing else of import, replaced out.
No content! (scum)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Lazy as fuck, no content, busses a fuckton. Also uses a similar "I will help you bus" attack on our slot that is voting scum which reminds me of the Titus attack elsewhere in the game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Another town game, another demonstration of more content than he's posted in this game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Another towngame, has decent posting. #478 blows all of the posts that he's made in this game completely out of the water, meaning that it's yet another towngame where he's posted more content there than he has here.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This scumgame he has a similar light opening to this one, once again fails to post any content.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Confirmable town, has a hell of a day 1 where he dumps an approximate fuckton content into thread Day 1 (again more content than he's posted in this game).

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
HunterxHunter Mafia, the closest game that I compare to his play in this one, but the end result isn't actually very close for two reasons. 1) Syryana made a giant case on me and pursued it for a very, very long time. Secondly, the town was stomp thwomping the fuck out of the game and he fell off and lurked because busy, but even then he never expressed the same attitude he did here, instead adopting a bit of a "kill me, this is absolute trash" attitude.

So, as you can see, there's a trend of him posting more content in one day of any of his towngames that he's posted in this current game that is on Day 9. I think that his Day 1, in the end, is sort of townish based on the trolling and the smooth interactions with people, but I think that interaction is at a level he can fake and is comfortable faking. I know that he has been getting apathetic with mafia as of late, but I don't see his apathy not translating into any kind of guilt and instead into a blame-shifting game like it has in his reactions to Tierce, and I don't see him posting so motivated on D1 yet somehow managing not to produce any of the content that is so consistently present in his towngames. I could see him posting to a lower level in later days maybe for a little while, but this being the last game that he will most likely play for his break, I can't see him neglecting everything so thoroughly, so completely unless he is scum. There's also his behavior in and of itself; he's willing to push for his own directions and yell at people when they don't follow him, why? He never expressed that kind of attitude in any of his towngames. He's shown pretty much zero signs of his normal "I've fucked up, either I gotta die or step up my game" attitude that I would be expecting if he were actually town in this game. He's also nudged along weak not perfect reasoning for him being town and jumped on wagons in an opportunistic way that didn't happen the last time he was lazy town.

Your point in five words: lack of content = scum. You're ignoring a hell of a lot of context and misrepping the fuck out of the HxH game to throw yet more reasons why I'm scum at the thread. I'm not going to debate this on a game by game basis (unless someone asks me to) but you're basically going "hey he lurks as scum lurklurklurk look how good these towngames are gaiz he's not town killkillkill). For those of you reading these games, here's a tip: check the dates. I haven't had a good game in a while as either alignment, due to fuckery (mod and player instigated) and flagging interest. Lurking's not a scumtell for me anymore, folks. Hell, go read any hydra game I've participated in as Rift Adrift or Pyrotechnics. I've a grand total of <10 posts in any recent game from those hydras. In fact, Nacho, why'd you leave all our Oil Tycoons games out of this? You should know full well how my game's been progressing (regressing, really) lately. You didn't mention Time War, The-Game-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named, Oz...

In fact, your whole goddamn case is a conglomeration of "strange things", confirmation bias out the ass, contradictory to things you've said in the past, with a healthy dose of out and out lying. Also, allow me to summarize your trajectory on my alignment up to this point: you thought I was town as fuck until pretty much toDay, barring one comment about how you're gonna policy me yesterDay. Then, two comments about PLing me and BAM! Massive scumcase on me out of nowhere, with immediate moving onto "reads" of other people to cover up just how pathetic and weak your case actually was. You're heading up the lynch wagon on me and pressing rather damn hard and fast to kill me, considering how long you thought I was town for. I also find the timing of this case damned convenient, coming as it does just as Tammy and Tierce both die. Both of them would have nailed the shit out of you with this, just like I'm doing right now. Mighty suspicious. Add that to how fast you're pushing my lynch... If I were a betting man (and betting weren't against the rules, of course) I'd make a healthy wager that you're trying to kill me before I nail the shit out of your scum ass. Like this:

VOTE: Nautilius



I'm pretty sure I'm dying toDay regardless of this. When I flip town, you lynch the fuck out of this guy. Town-Nacho would

never

, and I mean

NEVER

, come up with some half assed pile of shit like this case right before LyLo (I'm pretty sure tomorrow is LyLo). It's superficial as all get out and ignores one hell of a lot of question marks in its effort to put me out there as scum. The timing on it is suspicious as fuck, as is the complete turnabout from town as fuck to policy this to scum. Even the tone and content itself is all wrong. When Nacho's town and trying to get that scumlynch, he pours EVERYTHING in there. This collection of "stranges" and "doesn't give me town vibes" and "don't see town-Syr doing this's" has none of that passion and fire he gets for shit he really believes. He made a half arsed case that he's trying to push through before someone wakes up and crushes him for it. Kill his ass.

Benmage might be town thanks to the Tales of Benmage and Faraday, which sucks.
People need to let me win them the game instead of aborting everyone's clearthinking with false roleclaims.
I'm pretty sure more than 60% of my town losses are due to either town fakeclaiming or false innocent results.

ANYWAY.
We are still going to win this game.
There are 8 days until deadline.

Nacho is still town.
Magua is still town.

TA and MC are not bad lynch choices and one or both of them ought to flip scum.
I will try to figure out which one will do it harder tomorrow.

Why is Nacho town?
Why is Magua town?

Considering I've wanted to be dead since, like, Day 5, how is me wanting to be dead now claiming scum?

You didn't beg for death until I cased you today.
Does that mean you're claiming scum?

No. In fact, before Magua managed to piss me the fuck off, I was going to just give you a thumbs up and a happy face for pushing through the PL on me I wanted to happen on like Day 5. Instead, I'm sitting here taking a shit on your face. Thanks, Magua!

@Magua:
My Proficiency would look a lot better without 2 faked guilties a 1v1 a fast scumhammer and a deadlined lynch on Thor.
On Garruk we had Nacho's roleblock-nokill on top of Benmage's claim. I can't not make that play.
Obvious lynches get a fact check and a hammer or a STOP THIS, not a full-game solving session.

We didn't use our vote much because we wanted to agree on votes but failed at schedule overlap.

TA, how hard is your guarantee that the name you were given is not in the setup?

Don't have access to the exact words he used, but it was to the effect of "this person does not exist".

Magua can blow me, inc megapost

You don't have anywhere near enough money.

Think Titus is town.

Bedtime now.

Since nothing is priceless, you're technically correct.

[ooba]

TA lynch is properly vetted and ready to go through. Would also like to take out ninja today because Cephrir.

Nacho you have no idea how much you've trolled me. Your trolling started before this game even began.
*fume* Fine I will stop attempting to throw pottery at Alfred. So you're going with Titus/MC/TA/elle?

I know how much I've been trolling you more than anyone.
And yep, that's my scumteam.

@Syryana

, you probably will not get a Naut lynch today. However, I don't like that Naut has avoided the MC wagon today - although he states that i)you're a better wagon ii)has asked MC to be lynched tomorrow - his case on you seems a bit weak and the strongest point is the lurking bit. The coin+kanye results were very weak.

If you're looking for Naut scum partners - MC is a good choice. Join me on this as you joined me on the SpyreX wagon!

[ooba]

Your argument is essentially, "I did a terribly stupid thing, and then when I didn't get instalynched for it, Benmage did the same terribly stupid thing I did, and that's scummy."

I find several things missing from your thought process here:

1) Any indication that you're aware that Benmage has way more of a history of doing this terribly stupid thing than you do,

2) Any indication yesterday that Benmage might've been lying, given that you lied in the exact same circumstance the Day before, even when it was brought up by other people,

3) Any indication that you're aware that what you did was bad, and any attempt to explain why, really, anyone should listen to you at all.

That's a misrep - if anything - the case is "There's a possibility that Benmage narrowed it down to two opposite scum and tried to lynch Garruk. He could take the risk because he had his own meta going for him and the fact that I had done the same action before"

Obviously several posts of mine are missing from your ISO-reivew - quoting appropriate counters:
1)

As scum, he has two things going for him - (a) his fake-meta of previous behaviour (b) the fact that he was second and knew he'd be placing himself with me

2)

I do but the only scenario in which I see Benmage fake-claiming\lying is scum vs opposite scum.

3)

It was pretty moronic play but yes, I fakeclaimed yesterday to get kanye lynched. My apologies to both kanye and the town for the boneheaded move.

---

Yes - my fake guilty was bad. Unlike Benmage, I don't blame Faraday; not kanye, nor cirumstances. It was my mistake. However, wallowing in self-pity serves nobody's purposes.

Currently I am operating under two different sets of reads
i) If it's a single scum game, the rest of the Chaos guys are "Cephrir+Messiah+???+???" (I've changed my TA read to a town one)
ii) If it's double scum, the remaining Chaos scum is Alfred and the other team is SafetyDance+Messiah+Nacho
I've got both bases covered by voting for Messiah.

[Shadoweh]

Posting at 8am because I'm tired of being prodded.txt
True facts, Garruk's last message involves wanting to get Benmage lynched and hating Nautilis. ooba, how plausable is Nacho's scumteam?

[ooba]

Posting at 8am because I'm tired of being prodded.txt
True facts, Garruk's last message involves wanting to get Benmage lynched and hating Nautilis. ooba, how plausable is Nacho's scumteam?

Titus/MC/TA/elle

Well - D3 makes it a bit unlikely.
- The day starts off with a push on SpyreX
- There are competing wagons on both Agar and SpyreX
- Then it becomes three competing wagons on Agar, SpyreX & Zednek
- Finally, Tierce makes a push on TA
- Everyone moves to the TA wagon, he claims at L-1; coin passing
- Everyone's back to SpyreX

If Zednek and TA were both scum with SpyreX - one would expect more pressure on the only town-wagon that day - but we never see any scum (as per Nacho's team + already flipped quadz, SpyreX) pressure on Agar at all. For most of D3, Agar remains at 5 votes with TA being the only one from that set on him.

Hence at least one of {Zednek, TA} were wagons on town. So he's wrong in at least one person - Also here's the VC for his scum team call out if you want to check it out:

Spoiler: Coloured VC

Day 1, Vc 14

PrideandJoy

(1) -

Amrun

Cephrir (1) -

Goat on a Raft

kanyeknowsbest

(3) -

Andrius

,

ooba

,

PeaceBringer

elleheathen

(5) -

PrideandJoy

, Cephrir,

Garruk Relentless

,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Thor665

quadz08

(4) -

Shadoweh,

StupendousMan

, Nautilius, Benmage

Amrun

(2) -

Tierce

,

macmollie

ooba

(1) -

Alfred Borden

StupendousMan

(1)-

Tammy

Thor665

(1) -

Zdenek

Not voting (5)

-

Messiah Complex

, SafetyDance,

Syryana

,

quadz08

,

elleheathen

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

Day 1, Vc 17

PrideandJoy

(1) -

Amrun

kanyeknowsbest

(3) -

Andrius

,

ooba

,

PeaceBringer

elleheathen

(3) -

Garruk Relentless

,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Thor665

quadz08

(6) -

Shadoweh,

StupendousMan

, Benmage,

macmollie

, Cephrir, Nautilius

Amrun

(1) -

Tierce

ooba

(4) -

Alfred Borden,

quadz08

,

Goat on a Raft

,

PrideandJoy

StupendousMan

(1)-

Tammy

Thor665

(1) -

Zdenek

Not voting (4)

-

Messiah Complex

, SafetyDance,

Syryana

,

elleheathen

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

Day 1, Vc 30

PrideandJoy (1)

-

Amrun

kanyeknowsbest

(2) -

AGar

,

ooba

ooba

(3) -

Alfred Borden,

quadz08

,

PrideandJoy

StupendousMan

(5)-

Tammy

,

Messiah Complex

, Nautilius, Cephrir,

PeaceBringer

Thor665

(2) -

Benmage,

elleheathen

Cephrir (2) -

Garruk Relentless

, Shadoweh

Goat on a Raft

(1) -

Zdenek

AGar

(1) -

kanyeknowsbest

Zdenek

(1) -

StupendousMan

Garruk Relentless

(1) -

SafetyDance

SafetyDance (3) -

Tierce

,

Syryana

,

Goat on a Raft

Amrun

(2) -

Thor665

,

macmollie

Not voting (0)

- --

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

Day 1, Vc 38

PrideandJoy

(1) -

Amrun

ooba

(11) -

Alfred Borden,

quadz08

,

PrideandJoy

,

AGar

, Shadoweh,

Tierce

,

Tammy

,

StupendousMan

,

Goat on a Raft

,

Syryana

,

Garruk Relentless

StupendousMan

(1)-

Nautilius

Thor665

(5) -

elleheathen

,

kanyeknowsbest

,

macmollie

, Benmage, Cephrir

Goat on a Raft

(1) -

displaced

Zdenek

(1) -

Messiah Complex

Garruk Relentless

(2) -

SafetyDance,

ooba

Amrun

(2) -

Thor665

,

Zdenek

Not voting (0)-

NO ONE
With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

Day 1, Vc 48

PrideandJoy

(1) -

Amrun

ooba

(4) -

PrideandJoy

,

AGar

,

StupendousMan

,

Goat on a Raft

Thor665

(5) -

elleheathen

,

kanyeknowsbest

, Benmage, SafetyDance,

Zdenek

Amrun

(1) -

Thor665

SafetyDance (12) -

Alfred Borden,

Syryana

,

Garruk Relentless

, Cephrir,

Tammy

, Shadoweh,

displaced

,

Tierce

, Nautilius,

ooba

,

Messiah Complex

,

quadz08

Not voting (1)-

macmollie

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch]

Day 1, Vc 54

ooba

(3) -

AGar

,

StupendousMan

,

Syryana

Thor665

(13) -

elleheathen

, Benmage, SafetyDance,

Zdenek

, Alfred Borden,

Garruk Relentless

,

Tierce

, Shadoweh,

Goat on a Raft

,

quadz08

, Nautilius, Cephrir,

PrideandJoy

SafetyDance (1) -

displaced

Garruk Relentless

(6) -

kanyeknowsbest

,

Amrun

,

Thor665

,

ooba

,

macmollie

,

Messiah Complex

Not voting (1)-

Tammy

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

Day 2, Vc 14

Amrun

(12) -

Zdenek

, Alfred Borden, Nautilius, Shadoweh,

Tammy

, SafetyDance, Benmage,

macmollie

,

PrideandJoy

,

elleheathen

,

AGar

,

SpyreX

Nautilius (3) -

StupendousMan

,

Amrun

,

quadz08

Messiah Complex

(2) -

Cephrir,

ooba

elleheathen

(1) -

Goat on a Raft

AGar

(1) -

The Alchemist

SpyreX

(1) -

Messiah Complex

Not voting (3)

:

Garruk Relentless

,

Tierce

,

kanyeknowsbest

With 23 alive it takes 12 votes to lynch

Day 3, Vc 17

SpyreX

(6) -

Tammy

,

ooba

,

Zdenek

,

elleheathen

,

Messiah Complex

, Nautilius

AGar

(3) -

Goat on a Raft

,

The Alchemist

, Alfred Borden

Zdenek

(5) -

kanyeknowsbest

,

StupendousMan

, Shadoweh,

SpyreX

,

AGar

elleheathen

(1) -

Goat on a Raft

Benmage (1) -

PrideandJoy

The Alchemist

(4) -

Tierce

,

quadz08

, Benmage,

Garruk Relentless

Not voting (2)

:Cephrir, SafetyDance

With 21 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

Day 3, Vc 27

SpyreX

(10) -

Tammy

,

ooba

,

elleheathen

, Nautilius,

The Alchemist

,

Messiah Complex

,

Katsuki

,

Goat on a Raft

, Shadoweh,

Garruk Relentless

,

Tierce

Zdenek

(3) -

SpyreX

,

AGar

, SafetyDance

elleheathen

(1) -

Goat on a Raft

Benmage (1) -

PrideandJoy

The Alchemist

(4) -

quadz08

, Benmage,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Zdenek

Not voting (2) -

Cephrir, Alfred Borden
With 21 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

Day 4, Vc 10

The Alchemist

(1) -

Benmage

Titus

(3) -

Nautilius, SafetyDance,

kanyeknowsbest

elleheathen

(2) -

Goat on a Raft

,

PrideandJoy

SafetyDance (8) -

Titus

,

quadz08

,

Garruk Relentless

, Cephrir,

Tammy

,

The Alchemist

,

Katsuki

,

AGar

quadz08

(2) -

ooba

, Shadoweh

Not voting (4)

:Alfred Borden,

elleheathen

,

Messiah Complex

,

Tierce

With 20 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

Day 4, Vc 17

The Alchemist

(1) -

Benmage

Titus

(5) -

Nautilius,

kanyeknowsbest

,

The Alchemist

, SafetyDance,

Goat on a Raft

SafetyDance (1) -

quadz08

quadz08

(9) -

ooba

, Shadoweh,

Messiah Complex

, Cephrir,

Titus

,

Goat on a Raft

,

Garruk Relentless

,

Tierce

,

AGar

Tierce

(1) -

Katsuki

Not voting (4)

- Alfred Borden,

elleheathen

,

PrideandJoy

,

Tammy

With 20 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

Day 4, Vc 20

The Alchemist

(1) -

Benmage

Titus

(4) -

kanyeknowsbest

, SafetyDance,

Goat on a Raft

,

elleheathen

SafetyDance (8) -

quadz08

, Nautilius,

AGar

,

ooba

,

The Alchemist

, Cephrir,

Garruk Relentless

,

Titus

quadz08

(2) -

Shadoweh,

Goat on a Raft

Tierce

(1) -

Katsuki

Garruk Relentless

(1) -

Messiah Complex

No lynch (1) -

PrideandJoy

Not voting (3)

- Alfred Borden,

Tammy

,

Tierce

With 20 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

Day 4, Vc 27

The Alchemist

(3) -

Benmage,

Titus

, SafetyDance

Titus

(1) -

elleheathen

SafetyDance (2) -

AGar

,

Garruk Relentless

quadz08

(11) -

Shadoweh,

kanyeknowsbest

, Nautilius,

The Alchemist

, Cephrir,

Katsuki

,

Tammy

,

ooba

,

Tierce

,

PrideandJoy

,

Goat on a Raft

Garruk Relentless

(1) -

Messiah Complex

Messiah Complex

(1)-

Goat on a Raft

Not voting (2)

- Alfred Borden,

quadz08

With 20 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

Day 5, Vc 8

PrideandJoy

(2) -

kanyeknowsbest

, Nautilius

Garruk Relentless

(3) -

Messiah Complex

, SafetyDance,

Titus

Cephrir (1) -

PrideandJoy

The Alchemist

(1) -

Benmage

Titus

(6) -

AGar

,

The Alchemist

,

Goat on a Raft

, Cephrir,

elleheathen

,

Garruk Relentless

Not voting (5) -

Alfred Borden,

ooba

, Shadoweh,

Tammy

,

Tierce

With 18 alive it takes 10 votes to lynch

Day 5, Vc 13

PrideandJoy

(10) -

kanyeknowsbest

,

Tammy

, Cephrir, Benmage,

The Alchemist

,

elleheathen

,

AGar

,

Goat on a Raft

,

Titus

, Alfred Borden

Titus

(3) -

Goat on a Raft

,

Garruk Relentless

, Nautilius

Cephrir (1) -

PrideandJoy

Goat on a Raft

(1) -

Messiah Complex

The Alchemist

(2) -

SafetyDance,

ooba

Not voting (2) -

Shadoweh,

Tierce

With 18 alive it takes 10 votes to lynch

Day 7, Vc 4

Alfred Borden (4) -

Garruk Relentless

,

Titus

,

Messiah Complex

, Benmage

elleheathen

(1) -

Nautilius

Titus

(1) -

kanyeknowsbest

The Alchemist

(3) -

ooba

, Cephrir, SafetyDance

Not voting (6)

: Alfred Borden,

elleheathen

, Shadoweh,

The Alchemist

,

Tammy

,

Tierce

With 15 alive it takes 8 votes to lynch

Day 7, Vc 7

Alfred Borden (3) -

Garruk Relentless

, Benmage, Shadoweh

elleheathen

(1) -

Nautilius

Titus

(1) -

kanyeknowsbest

The Alchemist

(5) -

ooba

, Cephrir, SafetyDance,

Titus

,

Messiah Complex

Not voting (5)

: Alfred Borden,

elleheathen

,

The Alchemist

,

Tammy

,

Tierce

With 15 alive it takes 8 votes to lynch

Day 7, Vc 12

Alfred Borden (2) -

Benmage, Shadoweh

elleheathen

(1) -

Nautilius

Titus

(1) -

kanyeknowsbest

The Alchemist

(6) -

ooba

, Cephrir, SafetyDance,

Titus

,

Messiah Complex

,

elleheathen

Benmage (1) -

Alfred Borden

kanyeknowsbest

(2) -

Tierce

,

Garruk Relentless

Not voting (2)

:

The Alchemist

,

Tammy

With 15 alive it takes 8 votes to lynch

Day 7, Vc 16

Alfred Borden (1) -

Shadoweh

The Alchemist

(3) -

SafetyDance,

Titus

,

Messiah Complex

kanyeknowsbest

(8) -

Tierce

,

Garruk Relentless

,

elleheathen

,

ooba

, Benmage, Cephrir, Alfred Borden, Nautilius

ooba

(1) -

kanyeknowsbest

Not voting (2)

:

The Alchemist

,

Tammy

With 15 alive it takes 8 votes to lynch

Day 8, Vc 13

Alfred Borden (1) -

Shadoweh

Garruk Relentless

(7) -

Benmage,

Titus

,

Messiah Complex

,

ooba

, SafetyDance, Alfred Borden,

The Alchemist

Benmage (2) -

Garruk Relentless

, Cephrir

Cephrir (1) -

Tierce

Not voting (2)

:

Magua

, Nautilius

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch

Day 9, Vc 1

The Alchemist

(1) -

Messiah Complex

Alfred Borden (1) -

Benmage

Benmage (2) -

Alfred Borden,

ooba

ooba

(1) -

SafetyDance

Not voting (6)

: Cephrir,

Magua

, Nautilius, Shadoweh,

The Alchemist

,

Titus

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

---

Individually, for me
- I still think that Zednek's unvote at the very end of SpyreX's lynch at D3 would have been very bad scum play after all the bus-setup. It makes him look weak and un-does all the good work. I guess he could be *really bad* scum
- elle's D4 "Kill me because I vanillized Tierce" was pretty good. She was definitely next in line for the gallows and it was risky giving town another reason to lynch her. I've seen far too many towns go with the "Hey - even if she flips town - we have a benefit, so let's lynch her" mentality. Could be a great scum gambit - and if so, well played - but just for this reason alone, I'd not lynch Magua as the first person.
- I had a scum-read on TA for a long time. Something just feels off with this lynch: i) General uselessness of TA's play (I'd expect him to try harder as scum; granted I *still* haven't read those links - but he's just let go of this game) ii) Nacho's push had the opposite effect on me - looked like a case which had a lot of reasons - but when ya look into it - the reasoning is weak or stretch-es in many cases.

In order, Zednek\Titus is a strong town read. elle\Magua is not someone I'd want lynched today. The above reasons plus a lot of minor things (Passing the coin, TA voting SpyreX on D3 as soon as I asked him to - even if it made the day's lynch a choice between him and SpyreX) give me a town-gut feel on TA - we shouldn't lynch him today.

[ooba]

1) It doesn't matter when the case convers when you don't know that you can read empire but Tammy can.

Also, @Nacho - you bring up Tammy's read on Alfred but never bring up Tammy's TA read. She was pretty confident about TA-town for most of the game IIRC. Does that not factor into your read?

[ooba]

VOTE: Messiah Complex
I can Czar it. Or we can do it today.

Wait - by Czar - do you mean the 1:1 thing that Nacho did??

[Eddard Stark]

Day 9, Vc 6

The Alchemist (4) -

Messiah Complex, Nautilius, Benmage, Cephrir

Benmage (1) -

Titus

ooba (1) -

SafetyDance

Messiah (2) -

ooba, Alfred Borden

Nautilius (1) -

The Alchemist

Not voting (2)

: Magua, Shadoweh

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 25th of December 19:30 EST
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-12-25 19:30:00)
  
• Cephrir is V/la. Titus is V/la.

Adding 24 hours to deadline due to the site being stupid.

[Titus]

TA and Nautilus is likely TvT. I cannot see scum TA doing that, acknowledging he's been in a lurkish death tunnel on me and taking the time to prep that wall.

[Alfred Borden]

Czar as in make it happen.

[Benmage]

Lol syranna posts...! not reading it.

[Benmage]

@Ben- Where were you when we were fighting with multiple people on our Alfred read? You seem to be looking around for people to back you up here and you were nowhere to be found when we were pushing that read. It seems like you should have reached out at the time so that we could line up shoulder to shoulder and take the fight to them even if we were outnumbered against "superior" forces.

What day was this?

(I can't help but chuckle at the remember this bold comment from syrana....So in lylo we'll remember and rectify this ship...zzz..the amount of effort at this point is mindblowing...where was this previous?? Find me a town to comeback from this whole, and I'll understand the motivation. Otherwise... yawn)