Mini 1572 - The Network [Game Over]

[Snarky]

Posted too fast, forgot that cxinlee is one of the three that could have killed Beast.

[Paschendale]

What is wrong with the cxinlee wagon?

And Porkens is plummeting down into the depths of my scumreads for a succession of bad cases followed by votes presented as legit when in fact they seem opportunistic.

Truf. It's making me want to not act on my scumread on CX.

[idk]

Beginning replacement search for "idk".

Is it too late for me?

Reading up now and a post will come soon after.

[Porkens]

What is wrong with the cxinlee wagon?

And Porkens is plummeting down into the depths of my scumreads for a succession of bad cases followed by votes presented as legit when in fact they seem opportunistic.

I couldn't care less. Playing this game is like eating hot sawdust. Really imagine that for a minute. There. That's how I feel playing with this group. We need a Tammy in this game so bad.

Fuck it.

I am a Mason. My partner is SNS. We have a private topic that the 3 nodes between us can read but not post in. Six, CXinlee, StrangerCoug are those nodes. CXinlee is voting for me even though he knows I'm a mason.

Aegor and Pasch are probably town since they think I'm scum (or there is no scum in our connecting nodes although I kinda doubt that).

There. MAke game go now.

[Porkens]

I guess CX doesn't KNOW I'm a mason, but pushing his vote on me without any regard for that separate topic or anything is beyond the scope of my understanding

[snscompt1]

I concur with everything Porkens just said.

[Snarky]

Just trying to make sense of this:

-Why are Aegor and Pasch probably town because they think you are scum?

-So you two are confirmed town to each other? And SiX, cxinlee and StrangerCoug maybe don't know that you are confirmed town to each other?

[Porkens]

We aren't confirmed town to them, but we did tell them in the private thread that we are masons.

I think if Aegor and Pasch (especially pasch) knew we were masons (through chatting with their scum partner who is presumably in our group) they wouldn't have gone after me. I know it's also wifom, but I think Aegor is town anyway, and, all other things considered, Pasch seems genuine.

[idk]

Let's talk about Porkens for a moment. Look at his reads list. He makes excuses for everyone he doesn't call town except me. He "could" see Saki as scum, he makes allowences for the Six slot until the replacement makes a splash. Maybe IDK doesn't get the backdoor excuse, but "I don't like it" isn't a particularly strong condemnation anyway.

These are not the reads of someone trying to find scum. These are the reads of something trying to look town by supporting the more agreed-upon town players, giving himself wiggle room on his scumreads, and choosing targets based on how to defend himself. He even gives wiggle room on Coug in case the wagon takes off, so he can join it or oppose it without being called out for inconsistency later.

And then he won't even defend his scumread on me.

And what did he even do on day 1? He wagon-hopped without anything more than token support for them, repeating the sentiments of others. Most of his votes are over setup speculation, mainly complaining about it. Six is one of the sole exceptions, and that was a pretty safe wagon to join.

Porkens is scum looking for an opportunity. He's not scumhunting, he's not taking any risks.

Alright, so I actually think that this is an interesting case.

If you'll take a look at Porkens' ISO, he's been wishy washy the entire game, voting, unvoting, voting, unvoting. Like Pasch stated, he's never really been scumhunting, and his reads list is proof of that.

And I was all prepared to vote him.

Then, he comes in with this:

What is wrong with the cxinlee wagon?

And Porkens is plummeting down into the depths of my scumreads for a succession of bad cases followed by votes presented as legit when in fact they seem opportunistic.

I couldn't care less. Playing this game is like eating hot sawdust. Really imagine that for a minute. There. That's how I feel playing with this group. We need a Tammy in this game so bad.

Fuck it.

I am a Mason. My partner is SNS. We have a private topic that the 3 nodes between us can read but not post in. Six, CXinlee, StrangerCoug are those nodes. CXinlee is voting for me even though he knows I'm a mason.

Aegor and Pasch are probably town since they think I'm scum (or there is no scum in our connecting nodes although I kinda doubt that).

There. MAke game go now.

And I can believe that. Somewhat.

Is a neighborhood a somewhat common thing here on MS? (and I'd like someone

other

than Porkens or the 4 people he mentioned to answer that) Because Porkens' posting is pretty anti-town, now that I look at it as a whole, and if he is a neighbor, he could be both scum

and

be connected with sns, who I view as town.

I'd consider the possibility that they are all a scum team, but considering that there are only 13 players in this game, I highly doubt that.

SIDE NOTE: This explains sns's 5/13 number earlier.

As cxinlee is going after Porkens, someone who he knows is town (provided Porkens' Masonry is true), makes me want to go through his posts, as well.

posting here to say hi

Great, quality content here. Honestly, this post makes me think he's pro-town.

(and before someone else mentions it, yes, I see the irony/hypocrisy here)

Fair enough. I like that post, actually. I like that you stood your ground. If you'd have backed off or tried to reinterpret what you said to please me, I'd still be more suspicious of you.

UNVOTE: snscompt1; VOTE: SiX

I don't like either of his posts.

Could you elaborate? Both of his posts are just fluff so far.

Defending SiX, who, though I have yet to look at his posts, is also under suspicion by other players.

Aegor is town for super obvious reasons.

Beast's theory is bad, because there are so many doubts I have about it. As mentioned, maybe a scum that can hit through multiple layers of nodes, or perhaps, like a scum-oriented setup with scum being unable to kill some players to balance things out?

Nevertheless, I feel it was town motivated.

And what "super obvious reasons" are those?

I don't like that he's talking about scum communication. It implies that he has too much knowledge about whether the scum have day talk (or a lackthereof) to me. I wouldn't have even considered the idea of using nodes to talk/not talk between scum.

seems like a town slip, because the setup is actually nightless.

~Fixed quote tags.

Alright, I can agree with that.

Nope nope nope nope. Given what he knows about me he should've thought of me as scum, yet he defended me as town.

UNVOTE
VOTE cxinlee

Cxinlee, if you'd care to explain a little without revealing too much that'd be great.

Who defended you as town?

I explained already, which part didn't you get?

Um, cx never defended sns???

Also, if Porkens' post and sns's confirmation of said post is true, why should cx have thought of sns as scum? The only possibility I can see is if the "Masons" are actually Neighbors, where there is no confirmation of the other player's alignment.

catching up

And YES, I WAS REFERRING TO REDCOYOTE

ok

which post was redcoyote quoting, sns?

I'm confused? Unless I missed something, sns didn't say anything about RedCoyote quoting something.

I'm guessing you mistook sns saying that he quoted RedCoyote as sns saying that RedCoyote quoted something else.

Don't remove cxinlee just yet. Regardless of his alignment, due to the nature of my role(which I will not delve into yet), he basically knows I'm town. So yes, sticking up and saying it was a townslip is town, but scum could easily know this and use it to make themselves seem town and get on my side by sticking up for me. I'm not calling scum, I'm simply saying don't rule it out because of that.

Here we go...

Why did you drop this out so early? Also, I see a supposed contradiction that you need to clear up.

• due to the nature of my role [...] he basically knows I'm town

  Given what he knows about me he should've thought of me as scum

These two statements contradict one another, I think.

I didn't drop barely anything. What is it you think I dropped. And yes. Those are two contradicting statements. I posted them immediately after each other though because I thought about it more. Cxinlee should not have defended me. Based on what Cxinlee knows about me(which you guys don't), he should've thought of me as scum. Yet defended me as town?
Only reason he would've done that is if he knew I was town because he's scum. It was a slip on his part.
I'd like for him to post more before I explain further.

Well no, im still considering a possible town role (No I will not elaborate) which i feel is equally likely as scum, you're null for now.

Now that the cat's out of the bag, I feel safe saying that cx was thinking of sns and Porkens being in a neighborhood, just as I'm theorizing.

I've played with CX a few times, and he's usually lurky as fuck. He's also usually town when he does this. Actually decent content from him (and it's pretty good so far) might be an indicator of scum. Or maybe just getting better at the game.

Let's just say it sucks to be on the edge of being lynched every fucking time.

~Fixed quote tags.

I feel ya. I was in a similar situation when I first started. Basically, I learned that you actually need to post something substantial and scumhunt as best as you can.

Also, not a fan of the six wagon.

@six: Read the post again.

Defending SiX (again).

catching up

Catching up (again).

Let the mafia puzzle out what the implications of what has been revealed does or does not mean for themselves. Let's just drop if for the time being. Damage may have been done, but I'm sure we could do more if we keep picking at it.

let's flip over six's rock and see what crawls out

So what you're pushing for is an information lynch?

Alright, I can see that.

Re-read notes:

NS's 59 is a total misrep and especially awful, as I explained. His subsequent disappearance does nothing to allay my suspicion.

idk's agreement with NS in 62 is terrible for similar reasons. Also, he questions my naked NS vote, which hardly seems worth mentioning at that point in the game.

Snarky's 64 is both ill-founded and opportunistic. He redeemed himself in 83.

SC has largely been posting fluff and engaged in no real scumhunting.

Not liking cxinlee's relative silence.

tman

, say something. Otherwise I will push for your policy lynch. And I get off on policy lynches.

VOTE: NobodySpecial

SiX wagon is meh. Would not strongly oppose if it still exists when we hit deadline. idk is unimpressive. tman is absentee. SC is unacceptably going with the flow and avoiding any strong stances or even any scumhunting.

Lynchpool: {tman, NobodySpecial, SC}

Possibly additions: {SiX, idk, sns}

I admit, im starting to run low on steam

Well don't do that.

I don't want a lynch yet

Mind saying why?

ah damn it, ive found myself lurking again >.<, will analyze things, and probably place a vote.

kk

oops. doesn't matter, was going to vote ns.

I don't get the sc wagon, and I don't like. how quickly it popped up. Ill probably analyse everyone, expect it up by tommorow.

Where's that analysis?

Aegor/Red Coyote are still town

I have sns as town, mainly due to the early push on me which I don't see coming from scum.

I don't like Porkens' push on Pasch, especially #443. I also have a theory that I'm quite sure is true.

VOTE: Porkens

Snarky seems to be trying his best to get SC lynched rather than trying to get scum lynched, but I get town vibes off him, so I assume to be biased town for now.

You have yet to explain

why

Aegor and RedCoyote are town in your eyes.

Also, I'm pretty sure we have the same theory now.

Red, Pasch, and cxinlee were touching beast, for what that's worth.

I'm still worried about the possibility about a two-layer scum, or something along those lines.

What do you mean by "two-layer scum"?

/end cxinlee's posts

Alright, so very little actual information coming from cx. That being said, I believe we have the same theory, and that leads me to believe he is town (for now).

Why was he defending SiX so much, though?

Let us all heed the voice of randomness.

Result:
9

VOTE:

I'm fine with you using Random.org, but why do you feel the need to say that you used it?

No no. No random.org please. That takes the responsibility of the vote off yourself.

It's an organized crime

???????????????

This game progresses too fast zz

So I did a little work.

1:4, 10, 13
2:3, 5, 6, 7, 12
3:2, 7, 12
4:1, 7, 10, 11, 13
5:2, 6, 8, 12
6:2, 5, 7, 8
7:2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 11
8:5, 6
9:11, 13
10:1, 4, 7
11:4, 7, 9, 13
12:2, 3, 5
13:1, 4, 9, 11


5, 7, 13
2, 4, 8, 9
1, 6, 11, 12
2, 4, 6, 11
2, 4, 5, 13
2, 4, 5, 11
2, 4, 6, 13

Above is each nodes possible targets. I didn't use names because that is more than I felt like doing. I figure mafia has to be able to attack every player in the game. After everyone's target possibilities is every combination of numbers that allows everyone to be targetted. This of course excludes my own node possibilities because I am town. I didn't go above 4 because that would be too many mafia for balance imo. I don't know if I got them all but I think I did. If not point out what I missed.

2 out of the numbers 5, 6, 11, 13 have to be scum in order for my theory to be correct. It is my belief that we should lynch between these people. If we guess wrong at first then we will have a for sure lynch the next day. this guarantees 2 scum lynches in at most 4 days. If we lynch scum first then we have pretty much a confirmed town out of the other lynch option on the respective side. So if we lynch 5 and they flip scum then 6 is virtually confirmed town.

VOTE: Aegor

Lets start here.

Calculating this early, combined with sharing it publicly seems very townmotivated to me.

Wait, so we should severely restrict our lynch pool based on the possibility that your setup speculation may be correct? I just am trying to make sure that you are, indeed, subscribing to play that would screw us over.

While I support Charizard's idea of pulling this through, I also believe there's a possibility that Aegor is right.
What I suggest is that we lynch a player based on regular methods in checking for scum / not scum R1.
While we're doing that, the mafia will most likely nightkill a player, if they do we may dig further based on that kill. If they don't, the town is given a free round to lynch.

Let us all heed the voice of randomness.

Wow, already scared to throw a vote out, huh?

That was obviously an unserious vote in case you didn't notice.

Isn't it a fundamental rule on the site that all roles and alignments are random? So, all of this "figure out scum by the nodes" is utter nonsense.

Scumpoints to everyone trying to get us to lynch based on setup spec.

The players within this game are considered individual nodes in a connected network. These connections determine the flow and reach of abilities. (If your role has an ability, your Role PM will dictate available targets for any actions.

This generally means that you will only be able to target people directly connected to you.)

The layout of the network, including connections, is available for viewing in the

first post

. The numbering of the nodes represent the number of the player on the playerlist.

While I see your point, the rules talks against it in this case.

It is all we have to go off of at this point so it is a good place to start. No one else is giving ideas on where to start. If all 4 people I want to lynch between are incredibly town then of course I am not going to lynch them. There are a pool of 6 people whom are most likely to be scum based off of the node. That is the four I have mentioned and number 2 and number 4.

Number 2 and Number 4 appear most in my list of possible number teams.

Actually the 4 people I have choosen are the only people who are connected to the two out most nodes. only those people and them alone are connect to that single node.

Also, none of the numbers I want to lynch have the highest connections to nodes. 7 has the most followed by a tie between 2 and 4. So what you are saying is absolutely false.

While I agree with that possibility, don't you think it'd be a tad too easy to discover the scum team, seeing 2, 4 and 7 are the center of everyone?

Some opinions so far, more coming later.

I actually kinda like this post from SiX, especially now that we know that BeastCharizard is Town.

Oh I'm sorry for making a joke in the first place. I didn't know that joking page 1 would be reason for lynch *sarcasm* - I have to point my sarcasm out aswell?
And why the heck would I've to answer something as stupid as cnscompt1's reply? It's page 1, R1 chill for once. Not everything is serious in life, geez.

Kinda defensive, but considering the hate he was getting for the Random.org vote, I can kinda see why he would act this way.

I've no reason at all to why I'd want to replace out - Or do you mean an inactivity force replace?
While I'm inactive, it ain't at that level, or so I'd say at least.

Aegor is town for super obvious reasons.

Beast's theory is bad, because there are so many doubts I have about it. As mentioned, maybe a scum that can hit through multiple layers of nodes, or perhaps, like a scum-oriented setup with scum being unable to kill some players to balance things out?

Nevertheless, I feel it was town motivated.

How's Beast's theory bad? For scum to be able to send in any kill whatsoever they're necessary to be in the spots Beast sent out. If not, the nightkills will be at places were each mafia can only target 1 or at max 2. If this 1 or 2 dies, suspicions are directly directed at the player. It smells kind of fishy that you oppose his theory, you as the center (nr 7) perhaps having something to hide?
Eitherway, as I've said some pages back each conclusion to do has its pros and cons. Pros following Beast's theory right now is that if it's correct, it wins us time. If it's wrong, we are back at square 1 without anything gained except unnecessary deaths. And that is exactly why I oppose the theory R1 to see what a sort of nightkill will be given out.

Yup, Six reminds me of Awesomeusername in Board Games mafia.

Vote: Six

In which way does my play resemble him as scum? I'm doing my input through analyzing what others are posting and then I give my 0.02 cents based on that. This my friend, is very weak and I don't like it. It gives me the feeling that it's likely to come from scum as an excuese on a possible bandwagon.

Also,

UNVOTE:

.

I was about to say "I don't see why there ever was a SiX wagon", but then I thought. Though his posts are really well disguised, there has actually been no actual scumhunting thus far.

Pasch, I don't see where you're getting that I'm not scumhunting from. Perhaps I'm not taking the pushes as far as some people do, but I do try to organize and speculate about eventual events.
Both parts are necessary, the part who scumhunts and the part who tries to organize the town and bring forth ideas. I myself follow this principle:

"Half of the game is figuring out who the scum is. The other half is convincing everyone else that you're right." -- PlaysWithSquirrels, in Newbie 437

Obviously because it's more comfortable to me rather than pushing for something that would just make me uneasy, second thoughts so to say.

Assuming Beast's theory about the calculations is correct, the people who are scum would most likely oppose it. That's why digging deeper into this is necessary, and unless you haven't seen those who oppose it ARE the numbers Beast has brought up.

I agree that Charizard's theory needed to be looked into, but why didn't you do that digging yourself? You proposed it after all.

I mean seriously, as town feeling worried about being checked shouldn't really matter. If you're town, you can feel safe. If you're scum, you'll have to find a way to withdraw the suspicion on that the theory is correct.

True... if people were actually following Charizard's plan. If even the town thinks that 'Zard's posts were scummy, then scum would feel safe, too. Of course, if you are actually scum, you've already thought of this and that's why you're making these posts in the first place.

Fine, give me three well-substantiated reads.

The way you build your statements seems very circumstantial to me, I like that.


On-topic about your questions.

I'm town reading Beastcharizard based on his content. He continuesly tries to bring forth new information that does make sence, at least it does to me.
I'm scumreading Cxinlee based on guts and for opposing the idea due to her being number 7 (center). Either number 2 and 4, or number 7 should be somehow connected to mafias to give a variety of targets.

As for Strangercoug, While I pushed cxinlee a little bit here on the opposing of theories, all theories are welcome, good or bad. Are you perhaps afraid that Beast his theories would be true?
If you happen to be town, then based on his theory there's a huge chance the opposite number of yours is a mafia. Have you taken that into account before you disapproved with his idea? If you're town, then you obviously shouldn't have anything to worry about.

I'm scumreading Porkens based on guts and the reason he decided to use against me in his vote.

The rest of the players are mainly null.

snscompt1, do you realize the damage you are doing to this game? No, this isn't even remotely close to a normal game. That does not give you the right to hand over setup information to the scum, which is

EXACTLY

what you are doing.

IGMEOY: snscompt1

. You can expect a vote from me if you continue on this route.

All I can see is people pushing snscompt1, inclusive you based on him leaking information. However, what has he actually leaked out that is this crucial for you to threaten him with a vote?
I'm sorry, but I find nothing through the posts, have I missed something? If so, please enlighten me.

@PORKENS: Would SiX have known that SC had access the Mason/Neighbor chat before your post?

Currently working on something, hold on kunk.

(just saying, that "something" never came)

Since this is a theme game, putten time on for people who specifically wanted to sign up, I don't really want to sign out to give the host trouble in finding a replacer.
But meh, I won't be to any help just lurking around once in a while and completely lost on other cases.

Sorry kunkstar, but my schedule will be busy with tests and other events until the summer vacation, so feel free to replace me.

So here SiX requests a replacement. As I don't believe he was receiving any hate at that time, I think his reasoning for replacing is genuine.

/end SiX's posts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SO.... that was a lot to go through.

I want to vote SiX, but I don't want to vote on someone being replaced. I'll wait for a replacement to come and post before I place my vote.

[idk]

Basically, I view cx as leaning town, but if SiX is scum, then so is cx.

[idk]

And vice versa.

(sorry for the triple posting here haha; should've made sure I had everything I wanted to say in the first post)

[Snarky]

Nope nope nope nope. Given what he knows about me he should've thought of me as scum, yet he defended me as town.

UNVOTE
VOTE cxinlee

Cxinlee, if you'd care to explain a little without revealing too much that'd be great.

That claim doesn't explain this. Why cxinlee should have thought of sns as scum?

[Snarky]

Oops, idk ninja'd me

[Porkens]

No, the observing nodes were not explicitly told who all was in the thread. Only me and sns knew everything. We told them we were masons in thread, but not who all was there.

[Porkens]

Oh and if the link between us is broken, it won't stop us from using the thread

[kunkstar7]

:: VoteCount 2x3 ::

cxinlee (4)

-

StrangerCoug, Aegor, snscompt1, Porkens

StrangerCoug (1)

-

Snarky

idk (1)

-

RedCoyote

Porkens (1)

-

cxinlee

Not Voting (4)

-

SiX, Saki, Paschendale, idk

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline for Day Two is in (expired on 2014-06-04 02:36:19).

Is it too late for me?

You may continue in your slot.

[StrangerCoug]

idk makes sense as town to me.

[Paschendale]

Based on this new information, Cx is definitely looking worse and Porkens is looking much better. Though I would encourage Porkens to focus less on his mason thread and more on the game thread. My scumread on Porkens was one of the things preventing me from going after Cx. I feel a lot better about that now.

VOTE: Cx

L-1, I think

[Aegor]

here will post later today or tomorrow

[Snarky]

Aegor/Red Coyote are still town

I have sns as town, mainly due to the early push on me which I don't see coming from scum.

I don't like Porkens' push on Pasch, especially #443. I also have a theory that I'm quite sure is true.

VOTE: Porkens

Snarky seems to be trying his best to get SC lynched rather than trying to get scum lynched, but I get town vibes off him, so I assume to be biased town for now.

The "I also have a theory that I'm quite sure is true". Now that porkens and sns are outed masons, I'm quite sure it is based on something happening in that masons private topic. It really feels town to me.

What if sns and Porkens are scum that have to act like masons in that thread, and town here. That could be fun. I'm not saying Porkens and sns are scum, they are in my town list, I'm just saying that, in cx's POV, his vote on Porkens may have been town-motivated. That, added with him pointing at a townslip, makes me pretty sure he is town. This wagon should cease to exist.

[Snarky]

Hey, you all seem to have skimmed this:

3. I'm talking about what's going on between your ISO 16 and your ISO 35. Why is your vote on NS without any reasoning, even after the misunderstanding was clarified?

I had no better scum reads at the time.

Gotcha!

It's just... hard to get reads in this Kafkaesque game. I'm liking Aegor and Paschendale, beastcharizard is acceptable, snscompt1 is clearly sabotaging us, and Nobody Special is scum. That's it. I can't read the majority of you, and I'm beating myself up for that.

I'm fairly confident in Aegor-town. I can see RedCoyote-town, too, but I'm not betting my life on it. Still want Nobody Special dead.

Nobody Special is the only solid scum read. While I don't like sns either, I get the feeling he's being treated as an easy lynch.

Waiting for Nobody Special to die. I'll figure stuff out from there.

These are quite strong statements to make for someone only voting NS because they have no other scumspects. Taken from your ISO 21, 28, 29 and 34, which are all between you vote on NS and your first mention of something really scummy NS made, on ISO 35.

Like, I just caught SC saying bullshit. Can we lynch him now?

[StrangerCoug]

Aegor/Red Coyote are still town

I have sns as town, mainly due to the early push on me which I don't see coming from scum.

I don't like Porkens' push on Pasch, especially #443. I also have a theory that I'm quite sure is true.

VOTE: Porkens

Snarky seems to be trying his best to get SC lynched rather than trying to get scum lynched, but I get town vibes off him, so I assume to be biased town for now.

The "I also have a theory that I'm quite sure is true". Now that porkens and sns are outed masons, I'm quite sure it is based on something happening in that masons private topic. It really feels town to me.

What if sns and Porkens are scum that have to act like masons in that thread, and town here. That could be fun. I'm not saying Porkens and sns are scum, they are in my town list, I'm just saying that, in cx's POV, his vote on Porkens may have been town-motivated. That, added with him pointing at a townslip, makes me pretty sure he is town. This wagon should cease to exist.

Your rationale for cx-town makes no sense to me here, Snarky. What, exactly, do you think is precluding him from seeing sns and Porkens as a threat, given that he knew they were masons before they claimed?

In addition, if you do not believe cxinlee killed beastcharizard, then which of RedCoyote or Paschendale do you think it is?

[Paschendale]

What if sns and Porkens are scum that have to act like masons in that thread, and town here. That could be fun. I'm not saying Porkens and sns are scum, they are in my town list, I'm just saying that, in cx's POV, his vote on Porkens may have been town-motivated. That, added with him pointing at a townslip, makes me pretty sure he is town. This wagon should cease to exist.

That's quite a gamble for them to take. If one ever flips scum, the other is basically toast.

[Snarky]

What if sns and Porkens are scum that have to act like masons in that thread, and town here. That could be fun. I'm not saying Porkens and sns are scum, they are in my town list, I'm just saying that, in cx's POV, his vote on Porkens may have been town-motivated. That, added with him pointing at a townslip, makes me pretty sure he is town. This wagon should cease to exist.

That's quite a gamble for them to take. If one ever flips scum, the other is basically toast.

I'm not saying they are scum. You are right, it makes no sense for them to be scum now that they've outed themselves as masons.

A lot of people on cx wagon vote him because he has voted Porkens knowing he was a mason. I was just giving a way to explain this vote in a town mindset. Since this vote happened before sns and Porkens outed themselves, it makes sense. I'm basically defending cx here, because I don't want this wagon to lead to a lynch and I know cx is not here often.

But, yeah, if they are scum and did not claim mason, if one of them flipped scum, cx, SC and RedCoyote would know one of the other scum members... Quite hard to balance. Maybe cx didn't see that. Maybe I'm just overspeculating and should shut up and wait for cx's explanation of his "I also have a theory I'm quite sure is true". But I still think he is town.

Your rationale for cx-town makes no sense to me here, Snarky. What, exactly, do you think is precluding him from seeing sns and Porkens as a threat, given that he knew they were masons before they claimed?

Not sure of the meaning of the question.

In addition, if you do not believe cxinlee killed beastcharizard, then which of RedCoyote or Paschendale do you think it is?

Pasch.

[kunkstar7]

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