↑Om of the Nom wrote:like i honestly really dont know what ur tryin to achieve by saying something so common knowledge without followup
It didn't seem /quite/ mod confirmed to me that the scum in the two origin games would be kept separate. My role makes me 99.9% certain that there are multiple teams though. Since it was possible to interpret the scant setup info we were given in either way, and since the scum would already know, I felt that stating my role pretty much confirms multiple scum teams had value to the town. As you play more with me you will find that I do my very best to avoid assuming things that aren't empirically confirmed. I've been burned way too many times in the past by making assumptions that seemed safe but weren't. I learned my lesson.
Why are you playing underinformed, professor? Is your new playstyle digging your own grave or appearing panicked? Neither's working for you, sorry to say.
everyone not voting needs to put a vote down asap
preferably on drixx or brantz
“Leftover lady, let alone the strongest to be subdued.
If I only had the magic key that would unlock the realms to the plateau of the highest me.
Even though I’ve been badly bruised, living in a house to become a popular muse.”
“Leftover lady, let alone the strongest to be subdued.
If I only had the magic key that would unlock the realms to the plateau of the highest me.
Even though I’ve been badly bruised, living in a house to become a popular muse.”
↑Om of the Nom wrote:everyone not voting needs to put a vote down asap
preferably on drixx or brantz
You seem to be in quite a hurry. You also don't seem to care whether there's any case. So far as I can tell, nobody has actually bothered to put a case together on me. I'm amused by how transparently scummy you're behaving.
Everyone needs to vote? Really? Why is everyone obligated to vote just because you say so? Votes are significant and frequently used to drive cases against people. You seem to want people to put votes down even if they don't find anyone particularly scummy. There isn't any obvious town motive that I can see to this.
And before you cite that there is one more player than votes available, according to the mod, there's no need to make everyone vote to find who can't vote. Presumably since there was no official game time before that post, whomever can't vote has that restriction as part of his/her/its role and thus can just say so. And even if you are trying to PoE figure out who can't vote ... you haven't said so anywhere.
So let's see. You seem to think everyone is obligated to vote just because you say so. You haven't actually made a case against BRantz or I, but you seem to be in a big hurry to push people to vote us. What alignment would best explain your haste and seeming indifference to who gets lynched?
Town wants as much info and as many connections and reactions as possible to go on. Scum want to get through the game with as few risks of screwing up as possible. So I'll say again ... either your play is bad, or you're scum. Your response to my last post suggests the latter fairly strongly.
“Leftover lady, let alone the strongest to be subdued.
If I only had the magic key that would unlock the realms to the plateau of the highest me.
Even though I’ve been badly bruised, living in a house to become a popular muse.”
@Om
Your vote frequency on Drixx is almost 1 vote per 1 meatworld day.
Just imagining you waking up and going "oh I shouldn't forget to vote Drixx today, again" makes me laugh so much.
LucianRoy is scum or just really, really new. I kinda doubt the latter, so yeah, scum.
↑vonflare wrote:ICE reeks of third-party. His claim and blatant disregard for teamwork makes him a candidate for SK. If he isn't 3rd party, he's prob town. Survivor maybe? I can't see him as mafia.
Lolno. He's sounding pretty town.
↑Oranje Crush wrote:BRO. My writing style is more direct and I don't use things like adverbs, adjectives and uncontracted forms much.
Hi, Bro! Is this the first time I've (Ivysaur) played with you?
↑Oranje Crush wrote:Modified Bookie (instead of activating on a lynch on a target, it activates if you end the day as the 2nd highest wagon)
I will admit I've never heard of a Bookie, much less a modified Bookie, but that still feels...outlandish.
No no. Not a terrible vote, but better placed on Lucian.
↑Oranje Crush wrote:Go on then, explain it in more than one paragraph. Until then: VOTE: Soren
Why the heck do you see him as town?
Do you two not have a PT or something?
↑Drixx wrote:Be specific Oranje! If you believe certain people are lurking, then ask them directly to answer some questions. A blanket "lurkers should stop lurking" isn't usually very productive.
And vonflare, all his votes have been based of no content besides ice. This post quoted also feels
really
wrong.
I agree. Too...hopeful for kills.
↑copper223 wrote:Getting away with giving as little as possible which helps them be flexible when they finally have to give reads and explain them, while hopefully some poor townie screws up in some way and gets himself lynched, then coming in tomorrow saying they were unfortunately busy but oh that guy was for sure town blah blah, I want their reads on record and that is good regardless of their alignment so I think it's a great spot to place your vote at the moment.
First off, I will say with 100% certainity that NONE OF US will ever try to use that excuse (...okay, maybe 98% because I could almost imagine Venusaur trying to use that as scum, but it'd be a very rare occasion), so tia (ty for that one, Mollie) if you don't insinuate that again.
Secondly, well...Venu's play has to be seen to be understood, but reads are both incoming and have been placed by at least two heads (one of which has been a consensus, so yay that). I'm fairly sure all three of us have at least glanced at the thread/read up to about page 5, but I'm the only one who's caught up. It shouldn't take them too long to do so, though.
↑copper223 wrote:@deathfisaro
What do you think of BBmolla and never-melt-ice wrt to their claims?
I think Oranje is most likely town because of the strong hydra dissonance on their reads, I don't see scum getting in a spat over who to vote like they did in the middle of the thread as very likely and it did not seem orchestrated.
Nah, it actually feels pretty town. Yeah, the hydra dissonance is annoying as hell, but there's an honesty in their reads and arguments.
Venus or Bulba can move the vote back later if they so choose. Drixx doesn't feel like a good candidate, but 559 sounds like heavy reaching for Om's rationale. Nevermind that quite a few people prefer that people have their votes out so that their opinions, as well or poorly formed as they may be, are out there.
Vote: Lucian
*goes to pester Bulba to post*
P-EDIT: Yeah, yeah, go drink your tea somewhere else.
I think BBmolla, while I don't like the role positioning they've done for themselves, has a point that their role is provable. I still don't like that NMI wants people to reveal their neighbors, but I guess it's not that detrimental to the town to know who has a neighbor and who doesn't.
Sorry for my delayed play, this is my third time explaining it in a thread but my dog died, I started work today, and I'm still a full-time student, so my posting abilities are scarce. I'm only as far as page 15 in this game in my reading (I'm gonna catch up, I promise), but I need a little bit of time to get my head into this game. The weekend is coming up so I'll be good to go soon.
If I'm modding your game, I'm sorry in advance. <3
Erm ... me telling Oranje to be specific isn't a Pot <-> Kettle situation. I wasn't complaining about lurking; Oranje was. I simply suggested being more specific as a blanket shotgun like that wasn't likely to get the desired response.
So ... why did you feel the need to misrepresent me in that big wall of quotes?
↑Bulbasaur Commonwealth wrote:LucianRoy is scum or just really, really new. I kinda doubt the latter, so yeah, scum.
You say this, and I was expecting the zebra post to be an entire case on me. Unfortunately, it was just you catching up on posts.
I would ask for a reason with your vote instead of you just pinning me down as scum without explaining your thought process, but I feel like I'm not even going to get one.
And why are you rolefishing? I mean ... are we even to RVS yet?
Let's check: VOTE: Ozgin
this post is supremely fake, even for RVS standards
this is the reason i wanted you dead from the beginning
Spoiler: nothing in this except pointing out how fucking useless his entire ISO is outside of a choice few posts
↑Drixx wrote:I've been playing mafia for decades (live play). I first played forum mafia in 2007 or 2008, and I played pretty regularly since then on another site with a much smaller playgroup than here. One of the folks there suggested I come here and I finally relented and did so in December of last year. This is my 5th game on site. I'm still adjusting to the much more varied play styles here and the change in how people view things as scummy or not.
yeah ok this is cool on its own but here friends lets take a look at the rest of his ISO
↑Drixx wrote:VOTE: Deathfisaro - Making up for past mistakes.
@Copper - If I played each game the same, then I'd be waaaaayyyyy too easy to read, wouldn't I? It takes a conscious effort to introduce the bizarre and absurd into your lives, but I am here to help!
this is a weird vote
also hey look more self-explanations
what a gripping tale, lets continue
↑Drixx wrote:And also, because I love to tell this story: I used to play World of Warcraft with my wife. We were both Trolls and she played a Mage and I played a Priest. I would troll people HARD in general chat, and when they got mad, I'd be like "Do a /who on me and it will make sense." and they'd see my name and then "Troll Priest" or something like that and I would judge them based upon whether they unwound and laughed when they realized that a Troll was trolling them or if it just wound them up more. Cool people in column A and people I didn't want to spend time with in Column B.
Generally Column A included people who could be trusted to raid and just shrug off mistakes and wipes along the way, whilest Column B contained the tightwad "Minus 50 dkp" crowd.
Hooray for trolling as a strategy, amirite?
oh my what a useless post, when will you start actually playing the game instead of rambling? its like all you seem to care to do is talk about yourself in depth to pass it off as content
↑Drixx wrote:@Copper - You immediately noticed that I was behaving differently. That's the point. Feel free to look at my profile and check my games to date on site. My guess is you'll be able to see a different approach at work in each game. That's intentional so that I am not immediately identifiable as {VT/PRT/VS/PRS}, and also because I'm experimenting and figuring out the culture on the site here. I expect it to be awhile before I have any sort of easily identifiable meta that people can rely on, and I don't think it's at all alignment indicative since I freely say that I'm doing it on purpose as soon as I get into a game.
here we go again, more of this self-centered posting style that seems to be your signature this game. sounds like a lot of explaining away the changes in style this game. have you even played scum before onsite?
↑Drixx wrote:@Copper - You immediately noticed that I was behaving differently. That's the point. Feel free to look at my profile and check my games to date on site. My guess is you'll be able to see a different approach at work in each game. That's intentional so that I am not immediately identifiable as {VT/PRT/VS/PRS}, and also because I'm experimenting and figuring out the culture on the site here. I expect it to be awhile before I have any sort of easily identifiable meta that people can rely on, and I don't think it's at all alignment indicative since I freely say that I'm doing it on purpose as soon as I get into a game.
Why not establish an easy to identify VT meta and just imitate that when you're not VT?
Considering how many people saw your VT play (and it was good too) I'm not sure why you'd throw away the opportunity.
Perhaps... it's because you can't do a good town play because you aren't one =)?
Ask Copper whether I can fake town when I'm scum or not. On the other hand, I might not want to antagonize him too much ... after all, he gave me a brilliant compliment last page. The starting phase of large games is quite amusing around here.
we're doing it again my friend, still have yet to have any attacks or even questions towards any other players. are you really that self-absorbed?
↑Drixx wrote:There are so many problems with taking that roleclaim at face value, I don't even know where to start...
what a blanket statement, this is literally just a pointless post to serve as a statement of your opinion. where's the meat? where is the part we can actually critique? this implies so much more than what you actually delivered.
↑Drixx wrote:There are so many problems with taking that roleclaim at face value, I don't even know where to start...
Hit me. Start. Go. I want to hear this.
Really? This is pretty simple as a mental exercise.
There are two main possibilities here, which branch:
1.) He's telling the truth, in which case he's got the power to skip a night phase at some critical point in the game to help town, investigating him is useless, and the scum have to decide whether to kill him or let him live to cast increasing doubt on his claim. Him living far into the game wouldn't be necessarily useful as an indicator to his trustworthiness at all.
2.) He's lying. (Whether about the role or alignment or both doesn't particularly matter). The most disastrous outcome of such a fake claim being believed would be the already suggested scenario where we "trigger" his claimed ability at what we don't realize is actually LYLO and then no night skip happens and we lose.
There are various branches of possibilities for each case ... but suffice it to say that the claim throws a great deal of WINE into the proceedings, at a very early stage in the game. The question, I suppose, is whether it's both believable as a role claim (mine is bizarre enough that I could buy it) and that it's also believable that a town aligned and experienced player would have made the claim so early. The latter portion seems questionable to me.
If I'm a miller with that one-shot ability, I play to my win con and maybe breadcrumb the miller part. I don't think I would talk about that ability at the start of day one. I'm also fairly new to MS so there's that.
this post is basically a whole lot of semantics. the best part? it equates to nothing concrete. this post is just hypotheticals. there are no true stances; there are no true thoughts. he has made literally no progress in making an opinion for himself, instead he's trying to appease others. this post is literally a few paragraphs of mafia theory and nothing more, and he's trying his very best to pass it off as actual content.
↑Drixx wrote:I had an argument with myself about whether to post this, but it seems pretty obvious and I don't think I'm giving anything away with this; It's pretty obvious that not all outcomes of a lie on the claim are bad for town.
more weird semantic stuff that is not at all related to his opinion on issues or directed at prodding information out of anyone, there is still yet to be a single sign of this in his ISO (seriously if you doubt me go check it). also that self doubt sounds fake as heck
↑Drixx wrote:I don't know anything about neighborhoods, and if I have a neighbor that would be news to me. As for miller theory, it's interesting that the claim rate is so high. In the smaller playgroup I come from, miller claiming isn't considered good play.
For some reason, every time I see Oranje post, I think of
The Fault in Our Stars
.
another pointless semantics post, this is becoming a trend
↑Drixx wrote:Okay so did anyone else realize how flip/flop and self-contraditory Ice's posts have been? He can't even remember what he said in his original claim? Townies tend to remember their play because they have no lies to keep track of. Any time I see someone who can't even keep track of his ROLE CLAIM and what he asks other people to do in reaction to that, that's like flashing lights and alarm klaxons.
VOTE: Never-Melt-Ice
here we go
finally the very first attack in the ISO
but guess what, this is based on more semantics (and not very good ones at that)
the whole "townies dont need to keep track of lies"
yeah thats an ideal world but have you ever played mafia before?
this is almost 400 posts into the game and its so extremely weak and small compared to the amount of content that had been posted up to that point. also he barely followed up on these suspicions afterwards. there is no drive to actually follow through this attack, its just a one off incident. but why? dont town want to lynch the people they think are lying?
↑Drixx wrote:*shrug* - Someone's gotta get lynched on day one.
@Mod - Does the lynched person get to talk in twilight?
I'd appreciate it if my wagon gets rolling hard if I had an opportunity to share something before it goes all the way.
here comes the first sign of his submissive nature. he is rolling over and accepting his lynch as the inevitable fate about 4 votes into a 13-to-lynch wagon. there is no drive to fight this, there is no drive to do anything about it. no typical townie aggression to not being listened to. he's just accepting it. also for the record this was like the second real life day of the entire game.
↑Drixx wrote:I told the entire game that I'm intentionally varying my play while I learn the ropes here on this site. I'm not sure why people assume that means I'm actually not going to try out something different.
Early day 1 wagons are almost always a result of people scrambling for some reason to actually pressure someone coming out of RVS. Generally there's nothing to make a real case out of and thus it's sort of useless to argue and be all defensive about it. The absolute worst thing a town player can do is make the entire game focus on them to the exclusion of all else.
I'm really not sure how I would go about defending myself from what are essentially naked votes anyway. So now we're back to:
*shrug* - Someone's gotta get lynched on day one.
PEDIT: My life is on the line? Hardly. This is a game, after all. If you mean that I'm in danger of being lynched ... I think we're a ways away from that. Check out the discussion of voting me and see if you see anything for me to respond to. Yeah ... didn't think so.
more weird explanations for his play
more semantics talk
he has literally not attempted to do anything more than a throwaway case on a player at this point and trying his best to explain his actions away as "testing out new things"
he is also continuing to accept his wagon
↑deathfisaro wrote:So is people voting without much reasoning/argument attached a trend in larger games?
I don't know if I want them to get away with such, it'd be too easy for scum?
pedit: My vote's staying there, but it's no longer a random vote.
First day in a large game starts out random, at least so far in my experience. Unless something unusual happens or someone makes a bad slip, the day one lynch wagon usually rolls on whichever townie has the misfortune to say something awkward that gets latched onto like a remora on a shark.
↑BBmolla wrote:As a miller I'm probably going to be lynched eventually just by nature of my role, why in the fuck would you lynch me before using my
fucking confirmable ability
.
How stupid can you be like holy fuck
I like this too.
Confirmation bias. Rationally there's no reason to believe his claim until it's tested. Since it becomes more valuable the more information we have, we'll be tempted to wait and use it. TDT suggests at least keeping open the possibility that the claim is false.
...
↑Drixx wrote:@Om - That was kind of harsh, don't you think? I've seen a lot of first time players over the years I've been playing mafia on forums. No player in his 2nd game is gonna have a fully developed understanding of the game, but to just dismiss someone out of hand and be openly abrasive about it just seems a bit much. Admittedly, I have a soft spot for newer players, and especially Reubus because he reminds me a lot of me in my first forum game many years ago, and I also suggested he come play a large game to get some experience with different play styles and approaches, so he's basically in this game because it needed people and I suggested he could learn a lot and improve his play by playing in it. AND I respect his civility, which sometimes gets tossed out the window for little effective use.
All of that said, this isn't a newbie game and nobody is obligated to help out new folks. I would, however, like to submit that a positive attitude towards newer players and a willingness to invest in them is significantly more likely to be rewarding than throwing them to the sharks and being snarky and judgmental. I mean ... being good at this game is a learned skill. Nobody is born inherently good at it, and while some folks have knowledge and skills which are useful in progressing quicker than others, the general barrier to entry for adequate play isn't really all that high, and even then, "good" is rather subjective in this case.
@BBmolla - Didn't someone already claim neighbor a couple pages back? I'm almost certain I saw someone say they were a neighbor.
@all - the best policy is to attack someone's play or what someone says, and not the someone himself. I haven't been here long, but in that short time I've seen a lot of needless animosity arise out of people living "up" to John Gabriel's Greater Internet F&%$wad Theory (google it for a funny Penny-Arcade comic from like 11 years ago).
2 massive paragraphs that talk about exactly nothing. thats it, thats the point of this entire post
oh yeah, cant forget this weird halfdefense thing going on which doesnt actually address the concerns or anything set against him
↑Drixx wrote:Be specific Oranje! If you believe certain people are lurking, then ask them directly to answer some questions. A blanket "lurkers should stop lurking" isn't usually very productive.
↑Drixx wrote:Be specific Oranje! If you believe certain people are lurking, then ask them directly to answer some questions. A blanket "lurkers should stop lurking" isn't usually very productive.
Couldn't you instead of posting this just ask lurk questions
When I feel like pushing lurkers, I'm sure I will single them out, starting with the most egregious. Right now there's enough interesting going on that I haven't really noted who is hardcore lurking, which is actually a bit odd for me to realize. I played so many years with 48 hour days and I've already become super spoiled by the much longer days here. There's a lot of time to be thorough and whilest I still despise lurking, I find that what I view as lurking has radically changed in my ~3 months here.
this post achieves nothing either. just pointless words made to sound more opinionated than he is
It seems to me that it's rather obvious to the scum teams that they have opposite scum teams, right? My role seems to confirm two scum factions, and my guess is they already know it because it seems obvious they would have to be small and would realize their team size indicated another scum faction.
↑Om of the Nom wrote:like i honestly really dont know what ur tryin to achieve by saying something so common knowledge without followup
It didn't seem /quite/ mod confirmed to me that the scum in the two origin games would be kept separate. My role makes me 99.9% certain that there are multiple teams though. Since it was possible to interpret the scant setup info we were given in either way, and since the scum would already know, I felt that stating my role pretty much confirms multiple scum teams had value to the town. As you play more with me you will find that I do my very best to avoid assuming things that aren't empirically confirmed. I've been burned way too many times in the past by making assumptions that seemed safe but weren't. I learned my lesson.
↑Om of the Nom wrote:everyone not voting needs to put a vote down asap
preferably on drixx or brantz
You seem to be in quite a hurry. You also don't seem to care whether there's any case. So far as I can tell, nobody has actually bothered to put a case together on me. I'm amused by how transparently scummy you're behaving.
Everyone needs to vote? Really? Why is everyone obligated to vote just because you say so? Votes are significant and frequently used to drive cases against people. You seem to want people to put votes down even if they don't find anyone particularly scummy. There isn't any obvious town motive that I can see to this.
And before you cite that there is one more player than votes available, according to the mod, there's no need to make everyone vote to find who can't vote. Presumably since there was no official game time before that post, whomever can't vote has that restriction as part of his/her/its role and thus can just say so. And even if you are trying to PoE figure out who can't vote ... you haven't said so anywhere.
So let's see. You seem to think everyone is obligated to vote just because you say so. You haven't actually made a case against BRantz or I, but you seem to be in a big hurry to push people to vote us. What alignment would best explain your haste and seeming indifference to who gets lynched?
Town wants as much info and as many connections and reactions as possible to go on. Scum want to get through the game with as few risks of screwing up as possible. So I'll say again ... either your play is bad, or you're scum. Your response to my last post suggests the latter fairly strongly.
ok here we go, here comes the kicker
there is no lead up to this
you have literally just come in out of nowhere and expressed suspicion on me
and yeah thats cool and all and i do it too so im not gonna hate on u for that on its own
but do you want to know what bugs me
there is no asking for explanations
you are not caring why people are scumreading you
but here you are acting like im scum for barely saying anything about why
there is no "hey why are you doing this"
its just a "you are doing this so im going to call you scum for it"
you have no desire to actually take a look at my thoughts behind what i say in thread
you are literally just looking for something to capitalise on to get the attention off of you
the only other attack you've made in the entire game has been based on a wonky action from another player that you never cared to investigate either
you do not spend any time actually pushing your reads
instead you spend all your time talking about how you are playing and why
almost every single post you've made is either trying to explain away your actions with "im testing out a new style"
or its a "somebody has to be lynched on day 1 so i guess its gotta be me"
or just useless semantics
there is no imminent death awaiting for you
you can change this by actually taking charge and outwardly projecting town thought processes
but you arent, you are trying to skate on by with meaningless posts that just look content-y, but in reality they are nothing more than shells
there is no merit to what you say, there are no real opinions
everything you have said that is even remotely conclusive ends in a roundabout statement with no actual stance on the issue
the only clear stance you have made is when i have made my move to come at you, you took the glaring issue (no stated case) and you tried to make it the focal point without investigating any further than on the surface
“Leftover lady, let alone the strongest to be subdued.
If I only had the magic key that would unlock the realms to the plateau of the highest me.
Even though I’ve been badly bruised, living in a house to become a popular muse.”
↑Drixx wrote:Town wants as much info and as many connections and reactions as possible to go on. Scum want to get through the game with as few risks of screwing up as possible. So I'll say again ... either your play is bad, or you're scum. Your response to my last post suggests the latter fairly strongly.
this paragraph is dripping with hypocrisy
hes barely made an effort to actually get info from anyone
hes barely made an effort to solicit reactions from anyone
hes just worked the game by citing textbook theory that honestly isnt even fully accurate or usable
he has said nothing that can actually be held against him, because he's taken no radical stances, just semantic ideals
and in response to my accusation, he takes out a singular piece of my play and blows it out of proportion
“Leftover lady, let alone the strongest to be subdued.
If I only had the magic key that would unlock the realms to the plateau of the highest me.
Even though I’ve been badly bruised, living in a house to become a popular muse.”
Beautiful case Om. I'm really tempted to vote Drixx. You've convinced me. The PbPa doe...
You made your points as clear as day.
I actually want to hear Drixx's response before I decide. This should be good.
I haven't seen Drixx refute a solid case like this ever, so I'm currently making popcorn, and watching this showdown.
“Leftover lady, let alone the strongest to be subdued.
If I only had the magic key that would unlock the realms to the plateau of the highest me.
Even though I’ve been badly bruised, living in a house to become a popular muse.”
