A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[talah]

By the way, I don't think Piper really makes sense as scum

with

Cakez if that's where your head's at right now.

[Mirhawk]

Also, they did lie. They said they couldnt explain their read on Tictac without outing a whole bunch of PR's.

The question that Plot was answering when they said we couldn't elaborate on something without outing a bunch of PRs was in response to itlepip asking WHY we crumbed the inno on Tictac, which we couldn't explain without outing PRs and wasn't a lie. You're right that we could have handled it better as either alignment, but that's not significant unless you believe we have a strong incentive to handle it as one alignment over another.

This is not how I remember the situation, but you've asked me so many questions I literally don't have time to look it up.

[Mirhawk]

Cerb, do you see why I'm townreading Mirhawk?

The fuck is this.

If you're townreading me why are you asking me all these pointless aggressive questions about my reads that have nothing to do with who's going to be lynched today?

I'm out. I seriously got to go now.

Leaving with this as it's scummy as fuck.

Why on earth would you ask a friggin metric ton of aggressive questions to a townread right before the deadline when they're about to be lynched?

More like Piper wants me lynched, but wants to be calling me town when it happens.

[The Pied Piper]

Cerb, do you see why I'm townreading Mirhawk?

The fuck is this.

If you're townreading me why are you asking me all these pointless aggressive questions about my reads that have nothing to do with who's going to be lynched today?

I'm out. I seriously got to go now.

Leaving with this as it's scummy as fuck.

Why on earth would you ask a friggin metric ton of aggressive questions to a townread right before the deadline when they're about to be lynched?

More like Piper wants me lynched, but wants to be calling me town when it happens.

The questions are aggressive because of mood and how far from reality the reads in particular are. It should be obvious why I'm asking a townread questions about their reads but if you really need that explained I'll give it a whirl later.

[davesaz]

As far as I can tell not much has changed since I was here last.

[Cerberus v666]

13 hours.

Who should be lynched dave?

[Rob14]

Vote Count #3.14:

Mirhawk:

Marquis, Cerberus v666, itlepip, davesaz, pistachi0n, SirCakez (6)

Axelrod:

podoboq, Friendless Seniors, dramonic (3)

Friendless Seniors:

The Pied Piper, Flubbernugget, talah (3)

The Pied Piper:

Dwlee99, Mirhawk (2)

SirCakez:

Axelrod (1)

Dwlee99:

Malakittens (1)

Not Voting:

None.

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-05-08 10:15:00)

[Axelrod]

Unvote

Vote: Friendless Seniors

Better than Mirhawk.

[podoboq]

At this point, I think an Axel lynch seems impossible. I think Mirhawk is scum, but I'm not entirely convinced, and I don't think his flip will do as much active good to solidify reads as solving the TPP vs FS fight, so I feel like I have to make a stand there.

The only real thing stopping me from a TPP lynch has been other players' perspectives. I scumread the people wagonning on TPP, and townread the people wagonning FS, but just reading their posts, I honestly think TPP is more scummy. So maybe I have to reevaluate my perspectives on dwlee, dramonic,

TO

talah, etc. Basically everybody. But I'm joining the TPP wagon, and crossing my fingers.

VOTE: The Pied Piper

[podoboq]

Unvote

Vote: Friendless Seniors

Better than Mirhawk.

This is making me more confident in my decision.

[Cerberus v666]

...

[Friendless Seniors]

i'll make an honest effort to get up early enough to make it here before deadline.

-EP.

[Malakittens]

VOTE: FS

[podoboq]

I'll be playing Overwatch on my other monitor, but I'll be checking in between rounds in case anyone wants to discuss things.

In the meantime, Cerb, how about contributing something more valuable than this tumbleweed.

...

[Cerberus v666]

I spent a large portion of this morning talking to Nacho, sooo....I've contributed.

[podoboq]

I spent a large portion of this morning talking to Nacho, sooo....I've contributed.

Yeah, but posting "..." without anything that could be considered actionable is just useless. Like, is it directed at me, and if so, I'm sure you can pick apart something real to say?

[Cerberus v666]

The only things that have happened since.I was posting earlier are people voting for people I think are town, putting their support behind unlikely lynches on town, instead of votes on scum. This is also increasing the chance that a no lynch occurs.

I think those actions are foolish. Thus, ...

Which clearly means: vote for Axel or Mirhawk, not FS or TPP.

[podoboq]

The only things that have happened since.I was posting earlier are people voting for people I think are town, putting their support behind unlikely lynches on town, instead of votes on scum. This is also increasing the chance that a no lynch occurs.

I think those actions are foolish. Thus, ...

Which clearly means: vote for Axel or Mirhawk, not FS or TPP.

Mirhawk is clearly not happening, and I think we have five confirmed TPP votes, since we can count FS and dramonic on board for sure.

[podoboq]

The only things that have happened since.I was posting earlier are people voting for people I think are town, putting their support behind unlikely lynches on town, instead of votes on scum. This is also increasing the chance that a no lynch occurs.

I think those actions are foolish. Thus, ...

Which clearly means: vote for Axel or Mirhawk, not FS or TPP.

Mirhawk is clearly not happening, and I think we have five confirmed TPP votes, since we can count FS and dramonic on board for sure.

Also, Axel is clearly not happening either.

[The Pied Piper]

As far as I can tell not much has changed since I was here last.

I've addressed the big claim situation that everyone hates so much, which is something I'm surprised Podo hasn't responded to yet!

[The Pied Piper]

Maybe I only looked at cakez from a surface level, but his play doesn't seem too far removed from how he usually plays. Which is the kind of stuff that gets him scumread

I understand this easily enough, but your comment there made it look a bit more like you were scumreading him and confused how people were reading him as town, which apparently was not the case.

I think i mentioned earlier that Mirhawk's vote progession made a decent amount of sense, when talking about the skybird vote later d1.

Do you mean later, not earlier? If you thought that it made a decent amount of sense, then why bring up that Mirhawk made a comment on Skybird when voting dave?

axel were actually engaging with the game in a way that made sense.

I wouldn't mind hearing more about this, and I wouldn't really mind hearing what you liked about Cakez's engagement in particular.

in the case of C, why did you tell us in the first place? There was no reason to if you weren't willing to talk about it. Also I'd appreciate it if you stopped pretending that everyone was out to get your info. Nobody's asking for it. I've repeatedly said I don't care about it and that it isn't significant to my case.

We claimed the tictac inno to Cakez because we thought that he was the vig who shot tictac and failed, which is something that we've explained before. We said that we could out a bunch of PRs because we were questioned on why we couldn't out the inno on tictac. My point with bringing up the difference between "a couple" and "a bunch" is not to large and there's literally no scum motivation to say "a bunch" instead of "a couple" since "a couple" would be a strong deterrent. People are asking for more information when they ask things like "why'd you say you outed a bunch of PRs?", and when they're saying "I don't understand why you are so confident Cakez is the vig"; in the first scenario, they are asking me to explain that there are other PRs that could have been outed, and in the second, they're asking me to elaborate on our Cakez!vig read. You can say that they aren't explicitly asking for information and you'd be right but there is no way that I can answer this question without elaborating on that information.

Does that make sense?

[The Pied Piper]

Also I've said more than once what benefits scum would gain from this, If you think those aren't benefits then say why. You're acting like I'm accusing you of something totally unreasonable, when in fact it is quite reasonable.

I'm thinking more along the lines that Piper realized that in order to justify the things they've already said they have to be able to produce the role of both Tictac and another person, and they can't do that.

You said that we were scum who said that we knew the role of two players and couldn't produce the roles of two players. The scum motivation for saying that you can produce information on multiple roles when you really can't is zilch for players who are halfway decent because saying things that you can't back up in any convincing way whatsoever is usually incredibly fucking dumb.

Piper, saying you don't want to reveal your role to protect the vig isn't necessary if you picked up on the Vig's role via breadcrumbs.

We didn't want to reveal our information to protect the vig because the reason we crumbed that information in the first place was so the vig wouldn't keep suspecting someone we strongly felt was town and either tunnel them or shoot them again the next night.

I'm not seeing a benefit in saying you had to out multiple PR's to explain your read on Tictac, would you care to explain it to me.

Again, to explain our read on tictac wasn't the question. To explain our intent behind crumbing an innocent on tictac and not really wanting to talk about it was.

Town you would not have done this without a reason, and before you claim you don't remember again I should point out that I don't believe that for a second. There's no way a player as methodical as you would lie to everyone, then forget why you did it.

The only exaggeration that I haven't explained is the exaggeration between "a bunch of PRs" and "a couple". If you really think that the difference between "a bunch" and "a couple" is enough to lynch us over then you probably need to take a couple steps back and think about what you're arguing about in this specific scenario.

[podoboq]

As far as I can tell not much has changed since I was here last.

I've addressed the big claim situation that everyone hates so much, which is something I'm surprised Podo hasn't responded to yet!

See, Cerb, this is actionable.

I think most of people's flaws with your claiming situation are kind of trash. Like, you were frustrated, you said some stuff you knew, you kept some cards close to your chest, and they're saying that you're lying because you didn't show all the cards. I think that's a dumb response. It's the reason I'm upset with people on your wagon. Here's what people should be saying.

I think that calling Cakez vig is obviously garbage, and I think it's a lie rather than something you legitimately believe. As town, I would think you're lying to protect the

actual

vig, but in doing so, you're also creating a really complicated web for us to maneuver, because we can't tell what we're supposed to take at face value. So I don't think you're doing it as town, because a real towny just wouldn't say anything at all. I pushed you to reveal, and then moved off because I considered some information about a jailor, and didn't want to push you into a corner where you had to reveal that information. I moved off, most of the people who still pushed seemed like scumreads of yours, and it seemed wrong to placate them.

As scum, you're claiming to "know" all this stuff about the town, and presenting yourself as an easy leader. It's clearly working, because most people townread you, and most people are trusting what you're saying, especially in a game where it appears a lot of players just aren't reading, and are inclined to trust the player who seems to be doing the most.

I think the neighbor thing is legitimate, but it obviously doesn't make you town on its own. I might be misunderstanding elements of your role, but who else is in the neighborhood, for argument's sake? Is this not worth discussing?


I keep bouncing back and forth between FS, and I try to never play with my gut or my "feelings" about specific players, but I honestly just get a town vibe from them. The way they play bothers me a lot, because I have a hard time seeing town motivation in stuff like fervently defending Skybird for seemingly no reason, but the way they communicate just screams town to me in a way I can't entirely vocalize.

And then you're the opposite to me. The level of work you put into something like that interaction map (I don't remember who you did it on) is frankly dumbfounding, and it looks so damn town, but your actually dialog with players seems scummy, again, in a way I don't really understand or have the ability to vocalize. When some of your play has clear potential scum motivation (like the bogus vig claim), gut turns out to be the tie breaker.

[The Pied Piper]

This is an open question to everyone by the way since piper isn't here.

In what scenario does a town player decide to lie about how much information will be revealed instead of just saying that they didn't want to say.

There's no reason to do so.

Instead of?
We said that we didn't want to talk about it. People pressed us. We said we didn't want to talk about it. People pressed us.
Eventually, we had a different reaction which was to out part of the information.

[The Pied Piper]

I think that calling Cakez vig is obviously garbage, and I think it's a lie rather than something you legitimately believe.

Okay, let's talk about this first. Why do you believe that it's a lie as opposed to something I could legitimately believe?