Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[ironstove]

This game is driving me nuts. Between Jon and GM, one has to be town, and that town needs to be ashamed for their play. FOR SHAME.

[Dragonfire]

Examine her mule-like behavior on D1 refusing to lynch her partner DDD on D1, then switching over to copper, saying I will lynch only 'copper' indicating copper is her strongest scum read, now she is trying her hardest to lynch another

town

Hey dargon.

You're just spelling my name that way to annoy me. And yeah, I agree that that could be a slip.

What, would I do that? I'll actually give you this answer for free. Yes, I would absolutely do that.

Okay, so now the scumteam is me and iron because we've both scumslipped, right?

And second, how did you miss this slip, you found my slip to be very important and you even quoted the post that you're saying iron slipped in but you missed it...

I don't think a possible slip makes someone scum for sure. And your "slips" were very different. Also, because I think iron is town, I'm not looking very closely at stuff he says, particularly given the kind of player he is.

The difference is that iron's "slip" was literally that he said I was town. As he thinks the scum team is you/gm, as he was saying in his post, by extension he is assuming that everyone else is town. It was in the context of him saying you/gm were the scumteam that he called me town, so I find that perfectly reasonable coming from someone like iron, who clearly doesn't look carefully at what he posts (again, making him more likely to be town).
You on the other hand didn't outright say GL was town, but strongly implied you knew it while not maintaining that two other people were the scum team in your post. I find yours to be too conniving to be a simple mistake, whereas iron's could well be.

@Dragon looking at the VC, you've been on DDD since your first vote, but you took several VCs to vote. What makes you SO sure he's scum, in your own words. If you aren't scum, i absolutely don't see the case so please make it simple.

Reading back over 1257 almost convinces me you're Town. If I move my vote, it won't be to DDD though.

If you're talking about D2, I wasn't online when it started and I didn't want to vote DDD as soon as I got on because he was at L-1 and I didn't want to quickhammer and end the day early. If you're talking about D1, I didn't have any strong scumreads for ages, so that's why my vote was delayed.
About why I scumread DDD, it's quite extensive. I found his attacks on copper for what I saw as quite reasonable posts, scummy. I saw his attacks on me as scummy and it looked as if he was just pushing for what he saw as an easy lynch, especially because he kept vote-switching from copper to me and back again for little reason. Apart from saying my arguments are unfounded and "in bad faith", he hasn't given any other conclusive reasons for why I'm scum or presented any kind of a case. Then there's the possible scumslip with regards to him strongly implying that he knew GL to be town. And then there's the fact that I highly doubt all three main counterwagons on D1 were on townies, and since I townread everyone on the DDD wagon today, I feel that if DDD was town then scum wouldn't be deliberately splitting the vote like this and would instead be concentrating on the easier lynch (which is in this case DDD, since IMO only townies are voting him right now).

[JaeReed]

GM, I am about to indulge in extreme pettiness and apologize for this as a person.

There's something specific that nearly confirms DDD is Town, but I can't tell you what it is because telling you would be much worse play than not telling you.

That's it. I'm not saying any more about it.

[ftr i am now entirely unwilling to vote anyone but copper today]

I am entirely unwilling to vote anyone but DDD today.

[ironstove]

Examine her mule-like behavior on D1 refusing to lynch her partner DDD on D1, then switching over to copper, saying I will lynch only 'copper' indicating copper is her strongest scum read, now she is trying her hardest to lynch another

town

Hey dargon.

You're just spelling my name that way to annoy me. And yeah, I agree that that could be a slip.

What, would I do that? I'll actually give you this answer for free. Yes, I would absolutely do that.

Okay, so now the scumteam is me and iron because we've both scumslipped, right?

And second, how did you miss this slip, you found my slip to be very important and you even quoted the post that you're saying iron slipped in but you missed it...

I missed this post. How was my post a scum slip? I said GM is trying to lynch dragon, dragon is town....... GM tried to lynch copper, with her scummy post 'i'm only gonna lynch copper, i won't listen to anyone trying to reason with me'

now it's the same with today, she's tunneling another town, and it's not the type of behavior i would expect from an IC in a newbie game, it's acceptable for me because i'm in a newbie slot, but the rest of you guys are BLIND.

LYNCH GM, SWITCH THE TRAIN TO GM.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So it's funny that Dargon is crying about the lack of a case on him when his last post nearly perfectly illustrates that he's a fish swimming in a sea of scumminess and he he's so normalized it he doesn't even recognize it.

Also, because I think iron is town, I'm not looking very closely at stuff he says, particularly given the kind of player he is.

Back in my day we'd call this tunneling but frankly I'm loving the new terminology. Failure or lack of interest in game solving, check.

The difference is that iron's "slip" was literally that he said I was town. As he thinks the scum team is you/gm, as he was saying in his post, by extension he is assuming that everyone else is town

Note, that I'm voting for Dragon. And the first thing I did today was vote for Jae. Also note that I never backed away from calling Jae scum only recognizing that a Dragon lynch was preferred by my compatriots. Such that if I had to call a team right now it'd be Dragon/Jae and it should be readily obvious to all that's been my read basically all day. This by the exact same logic that Dargon is applying means there should be no problem with me "calling" GL town but Dargon isn't interested in truth, he's only interested in twisting whatever he can get his hands on to make me seem scummy.

About why I scumread DDD, it's quite extensive. I found his attacks on copper for what I saw as quite reasonable posts, scummy.

Remember what copper was attacking me for, my opening post. A post that Dargon now claims was a perfectly normal catch-up post. But notice how he never goes back to update his thinking with that knowledge? My defending myself from copper attacking a perfectly reasonable post is somehow scummy. It's a breathtaking inconsistency only serving to keep pushing a bad wagon on me.

since I townread everyone on the DDD wagon today, I feel that if DDD was town then scum wouldn't be deliberately splitting the vote like this and would instead be concentrating on the easier lynch (which is in this case DDD, since IMO only townies are voting him right now).

Finally look at how precise he words everything. This isn't how people naturally talk, it's a bunch of ass covering to make sure he can't be attacked for an irrational position.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I missed this post. How was my post a scum slip? I said GM is trying to lynch dragon, dragon is town....... GM tried to lynch copper, with her scummy post 'i'm only gonna lynch copper, i won't listen to anyone trying to reason with me'

now it's the same with today, she's tunneling another town, and it's not the type of behavior i would expect from an IC in a newbie game, it's acceptable for me because i'm in a newbie slot, but the rest of you guys are BLIND.

It wasn't, or at least I don't think so because I, and other sane individuals, don't believe you need to add seven "IMOs" and "likelies" to every single post we make to cover our asses but Dargon made this exact same argument about a post I made. So I'm busy hosting Dargon by his own sloppily made petard.

[goodmorning]

Guys, stop trying to make me talk about [redacted]. It's SUPER ANTI-TOWN.

@jon- Dragon made a case. I recently responded. ISO me and look for the spoiler.

[Dragonfire]

I missed this post. How was my post a scum slip? I said GM is trying to lynch dragon, dragon is town....... GM tried to lynch copper, with her scummy post 'i'm only gonna lynch copper, i won't listen to anyone trying to reason with me'

now it's the same with today, she's tunneling another town, and it's not the type of behavior i would expect from an IC in a newbie game, it's acceptable for me because i'm in a newbie slot, but the rest of you guys are BLIND.

LYNCH GM, SWITCH THE TRAIN TO GM.

I don't think it's a scumslip. I just said it might be one. And you still haven't told me why you townread DDD or scumread DDD less than GM.

Also, because I think iron is town, I'm not looking very closely at stuff he says, particularly given the kind of player he is.

Back in my day we'd call this tunneling but frankly I'm loving the new terminology. Failure or lack of interest in game solving, check.

Not really. If I think someone is town and he posts like iron does, I tend not to look very closely at the minute details of his posts. That's just how I play.

Note, that I'm voting for Dragon. And the first thing I did today was vote for Jae. Also note that I never backed away from calling Jae scum only recognizing that a Dragon lynch was preferred by my compatriots. Such that if I had to call a team right now it'd be Dragon/Jae and it should be readily obvious to all that's been my read basically all day. This by the exact same logic that Dargon is applying means there should be no problem with me "calling" GL town but Dargon isn't interested in truth, he's only interested in twisting whatever he can get his hands on to make me seem scummy.

Why do you think Jae is scum? And it wasn't readily obvious to me at least; you also didn't specifically include it in the post referencing GL, in which, in fact, you were considering me being town.

[JaeReed]

Guys, stop trying to make me talk about [redacted]. It's SUPER ANTI-TOWN.

@jon- Dragon made a case. I recently responded. ISO me and look for the spoiler.

You haven't been subtle about it. I just don't believe in what you believe in. I think he is just scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Why do you think Jae is scum? And it wasn't readily obvious to me at least; you also didn't specifically include it in the post referencing GL, in which, in fact, you were considering me being town.

Bruh, I know you're not even trying but this is a new low.

A) You even asked me why I was voting for Jae in 1103 and I answered in 1104. And yeah in 1104, point 1 was NAI, and point 4 was a joke but points 2/3 were serious as a heart attack. So of everyone else in the game with the possible exception of Jae himself you should be most aware of my opinion that Jae is scum but you're not interested in the truth.

B) "you also didn't specifically include it in the post referencing GL, in which, in fact, you were considering me being town." This in reference to 1129. In 1129 I said, "I was fine with a copper lynch, it wasn't just a survival play but

I preferred your lynch

." And said absolutely nothing that can be misconstrued as me considering you were town. You are such a liar.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I just don't believe in what you believe in.

A thing called love?

[goodmorning]

Guys, stop trying to make me talk about [redacted]. It's SUPER ANTI-TOWN.

@jon- Dragon made a case. I recently responded. ISO me and look for the spoiler.

You haven't been subtle about it. I just don't believe in what you believe in. I think he is just scum.

I don't believe what you think I believe at all. There was something from someone else that involves [redacted] that was posted D1 that I'm reasonably certain he would have seen and understood.

[RachMarie]

VOTE COUNT 2.8

Debonair Danny DiPietro

(3) JaeReed, Accountant, Dragonfire

Dragonfire

(4) Jon_H61, Debonair Danny DiPietro, GuiltyLion, GoodMorning

L-1!

GoodMorning

(1) ironstove



Not voting:

With 8 it takes 5 to lynch

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-26 09:49:24)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

GM, what was the point of posting "DDD is town because of [thing]"? Do you think you have some particular credibility with someone who is voting for me that a relatively blank statement would sway them? Are you actually feeling pressure to justify yourself and do you think your answer adequately justifies yourself to that pressure? Enlighten me.

[Accountant]

what is gm redacting?

[Dragonfire]

Why do you think Jae is scum? And it wasn't readily obvious to me at least; you also didn't specifically include it in the post referencing GL, in which, in fact, you were considering me being town.

Bruh, I know you're not even trying but this is a new low.

A) You even asked me why I was voting for Jae in 1103 and I answered in 1104. And yeah in 1104, point 1 was NAI, and point 4 was a joke but points 2/3 were serious as a heart attack. So of everyone else in the game with the possible exception of Jae himself you should be most aware of my opinion that Jae is scum but you're not interested in the truth.

Of course I'm interested in the truth, and you can't say I'm not trying. If that was true I'd be doing something like what iron did just after he replaced in, or else I'd just be lurking and fillering. Anyway, my point was that unlike iron, who was specifically hypothesising that the team was GM/you

and then

said that I was town with reference to that hypothesis, you were clearly not talking about a hypothesis there.

B) "you also didn't specifically include it in the post referencing GL, in which, in fact, you were considering me being town." This in reference to 1129. In 1129 I said, "I was fine with a copper lynch, it wasn't just a survival play but

I preferred your lynch

." And said absolutely nothing that can be misconstrued as me considering you were town. You are such a liar.

I admit, I did misrep you there. I didn't reread and assumed we has been discussing D2 when in fact we were discussing D1 and so it was copper's wagon you were talking about, not mine. Apologies.

[GuiltyLion]

This is bad

Don't lynch dragon

no gm lynch is bad

Do any of the ppl voting dragon have a response to copper's post about why dragon is town

I have a question for you: at the end of yesterday, just after copper was hammered, you had me at almost certain town; now I'm in your 'scum bucket'. What changed since then?

Can we all look at this

I am

certain

that Accountant is scum but no one will vote him with me. Dragon, you won't vote him with me. Why not? Did you get what you wanted from asking this question?

Accountant was WKing the DDD wagon and pushing Dragon yesterday. Now he's voting DDD and avoiding the Dragon today, with Dragon at L-1.

This DDD wagon is bad. D1 usually winds up with two wagons on town and it's terrible play to just push the other lynch on D2. I am positive scum are in {Dragon, Accountant, ironstove}, and that should be the lynchpool.

[GuiltyLion]

as for this:

Well I haven't really got anything to say for that since you've only got my word for it that that's what I meant by "likely". If I placed the word incorrectly in the sentence then I apologise, but I was definitely referring to copper being "likely" town, although at that point in time I did actually think that there was almost zero chance of him being scum; I still included the possibility though.

Also, don't try and say that I'm using semantics to hide the holes in my reasoning. If I'm lying about it, then I'm scum and I scumslipped. Either you accept that, whatever alignment I am, I'm telling the truth about this, or you follow what GM said and call it a scumslip. Don't try to waffle your way into voting me without a good hard reason.

I don't think your original post is a scumslip. However, once accused, instead of insisting that it's not a scumslip, you're trying to justify that it's not a scumslip with a semantic defense, which is 100x worse

Have I ever said that you're DDD's scum partner? Unlike others, I'm not locking you in as scum; personally I think DDD's scum partner is most likely to be GM, followed by you and jon with an outside chance of Accountant. Don't try and call me scum because I'm not calling you scum, that doesn't make sense. And you never denied that that was your motive for saying that to Jae; that was your legitimate reason, so don't accuse me of trying to take control of the narrative when you haven't even answered his point yourself.

Well if DDD is scum and I'm not, why did you say I'm appealing to Jae to get him off of DDD? What would be your reason for jumping in and pointing that out?

Like yes, I am fighting DDD's wagon because I think he is town. DDD asks me why I'm pushing Jae on ignoring your post, that's because I want to see if Jae is bothering to update his view of the gamestate (and it turns out he's not). There was no reason for you to jump in to reply to his question in the way that you did, and if you think I'm town and DDD is scum then it's even worse, because why would you answer a scum-question on behalf of another townie? Like I'm just having a really hard time parsing why you thought answering for me would be appropriate or useful, unless your motive is to paint me as scum.

[Dragonfire]

Can we all look at this

I am

certain

that Accountant is scum but no one will vote him with me. Dragon, you won't vote him with me. Why not? Did you get what you wanted from asking this question?

He never answered.... I don't feel strongly enough about him for a vote, but it's slightly suspicious.

I don't think your original post is a scumslip. However, once accused, instead of insisting that it's not a scumslip, you're trying to justify that it's not a scumslip with a semantic defense, which is 100x worse

But I did insist it wasn't a scumslip. And I'm not lying about the semantic defense, and it's not a crime to tell the truth.

Well if DDD is scum and I'm not, why did you say I'm appealing to Jae to get him off of DDD? What would be your reason for jumping in and pointing that out?

Like yes, I am fighting DDD's wagon because I think he is town. DDD asks me why I'm pushing Jae on ignoring your post, that's because I want to see if Jae is bothering to update his view of the gamestate (and it turns out he's not). There was no reason for you to jump in to reply to his question in the way that you did, and if you think I'm town and DDD is scum then it's even worse, because why would you answer a scum-question on behalf of another townie? Like I'm just having a really hard time parsing why you thought answering for me would be appropriate or useful, unless your motive is to paint me as scum.

To be honest I actually don't know why I answered the question for you, it was bad play on my part. Whatever you think my alignment is, you have to agree.

[goodmorning]

GM, what was the point of posting "DDD is town because of [thing]"? Do you think you have some particular credibility with someone who is voting for me that a relatively blank statement would sway them? Are you actually feeling pressure to justify yourself and do you think your answer adequately justifies yourself to that pressure? Enlighten me.

It's new. I didn't notice it until recently, right around when I started caring again.

@Lion: I mean, we

could

vote Acct, but Dragon is right there in your pool and a more appetizing target, so...

I want to see if Jae is bothering to update his view of the gamestate (and it turns out he's not).

I could have told you that.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@iron, please see below about why it's very clear that we should lynch Dragon.

Of course I'm interested in the truth, and you can't say I'm not trying.

I can absolutely say that; look below in this same post where you admit to not paying attention to the arguments I'm making. You're already admitted to not paying anywhere near full attention to iron. I've correctly brought up that your opinion on me should've changed after your opinion about my initial post seemingly changed because I shouldn't be faulted for someone attacking a normal, catch-up post and it hasn't you only retrench instead of reevaluate. Those are not the actions of someone who is dynamically evaluating the game, those are the actions of scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

GM, what was the point of posting "DDD is town because of [thing]"? Do you think you have some particular credibility with someone who is voting for me that a relatively blank statement would sway them? Are you actually feeling pressure to justify yourself and do you think your answer adequately justifies yourself to that pressure? Enlighten me.

It's new. I didn't notice it until recently, right around when I started caring again.

Is newness on its own worthy of a post? Especially when you say something cryptic, you have to know that people are going to be interested.

[goodmorning]

I mean, Dragon could just be Town with the most extreme case of confbias ever.

But I doubt it.

--

My thinking is that at some point, something I say HAS to make Jae interact with the present instead of clinging to the past. Jae is the person I am most sure is Town; Jae is the person I most want to not be wasting their slot by not caring; Jae is the person I most want to work with & understand the thought processes of. Besides all that, Jae's pretty good at deciphering my 'cryptic' stuff, for someone I've only played with once.

[goodmorning]

btw @Jae: I still don't understand why

you

think DDD is Scum.

You.

Not copper.

[goodmorning]

I even went back in your ISO to look but I got back some distance before the D1 lynch and I still didn't see it. So please explain if you want to actually entice anyone off my preferred wagon and onto yours.

Feel free to use evidence from D2 in your argument as well.

--

also, where tf did jon go?