Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Vecna]

Suspicion of Nero increased by +1.

Suspicion of ABR increases by +1

might be more but I don't really wanna g through the rest of your ISO.

Yeah those are going to be quite usefull for a control + F later on id imagine.

[Vecna]

This would be my christmas tree: I like the coherance of the story this is telling, allthough it does point towards it either going way too smoothly or a portion of the people barking up the completely wrong tree.

Yuri (5):

Lil Uzi Vert

,

The DEO

,

Akane and Nebby

,

Vecna, Fro99er

Akane and Nebby

(5):

Yuri

,

Maxous

,

beeboy

,

Nero Cain

,

Albert B. Rampage

beeboy

(4):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

PeregrineV

,

Spiffeh

,

Creature

NoticeMeSenpai

(1):

Elbirn

The DEO

(1):

Sondam

Fro99er

(1):

Leonshade

Sondam

(1):

Drixx

Not Voting (3):

Caesar Wills It, ooba,

NoticeMeSenpa

[Vecna]

can i make a pretty list too?

Yuri

(5):

Lil Uzi Vert, The DEO

,

Akane and Nebby,

Vecna

,

Fro99er

Akane and Nebby

(5):

Yuri

,

Maxous, beeboy, Nero Cain

,

Albert B. Rampage

beeboy

(4):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

PeregrineV

,

Spiffeh, Creature

NoticeMeSenpai

(1):

Elbirn

The DEO

(1):

Sondam

Fro99er

(1):

Leonshade

Sondam

(1):

Drixx

Not Voting (3):

Caesar Wills It, ooba, NoticeMeSenpa

So why do you think Beeboy is town then?

[Vecna]

Im a bit sad you got this wrong read in your head so early Math. If anything last game shouldve shouldve you im not that easily caugh as scum. And if for some reason you think there are similarities in my play between this game and PYP, I can guarantee you one thing - I look for a new gimmick every time I roll scum to appear 2 scummy to be scum on day1.

This is not one of these occasions. You can check my history for my other game on this site where I rolled scum and youll find me only making sheep noises all of day1.

If it helps I can even link you to offsite games where I only post in MS-paint pictures on day1 or do other weird stuff.

Im trying to get you to see the error of your ways here, because I dont like you being banned from posting either, and id prefer if you were to participate.

[Vecna]

(allthough granted, I tend to play in gimmicks as town as well from time to time).

[Vecna]

Just call beeboy a gut read

I thought gut-reads only happened for scumreads

[Vecna]

I think its time soon for mr ceasar to go hunt some barbarians.

[Vecna]

Oh nice, anyone who defends someone they think is town = scum saving mislynches.

Wrong

[Vecna]

Caesar greets the noble Senators on this fine Roman morning!

Caesar has heard the pleas of the common people and listened to the discourse of this august body, and is prepared to make his first pronouncement of judgment.

In Our Sight, it is evident that the knavish so-called Senator Vecna is indeed an apostate, as it has come to our attention that he consorts with pagan rituals and barbarian filth. It is rumored indeed that he may be a necromantic sorcerer most foul, and is even worshipped as a perverse deity by uneducated swine. This affront to Our Own Divinity shall not be tolerated.

Further, we discern the motives of this creature to be malign in intent and manipulative in nature, fit to serve only self to the detriment of Mother Rome. We interpret this vile sorcerer's actions to be in keeping with what is commonly called a 'scumfuck' by the peasantry.

Be it resolved that all loyal Senators ought be compelled to cast their vote against the interloper.

VOTE: Vecna

Haha, most excellent

[Vecna]

Extra motivation to survive for a long time so I can look forward to more of this on a daily basis

[Vecna]

I shall remind you that I represent the will of the people as one of their democratically chosen representatives, and you shall give me the respect that I am due, tyrant.

Your army has abandoned you, and your populist rhetoric shall not serve you here. For it is I that holds the majority sway here in this arena of words.

[Vecna]

Btw, I think all of us must try to build something (aka no "no building").

No

[Vecna]

People need to no build to ve able to beat scum that didnt build anything on the good wonders tomorrow

[Vecna]

People are ignoring Notice who should've been lynched by now.

Very true

[Vecna]

Only 2 of todays wonders are vital for town

[Vecna]

I'm confident a resolution will cone that allows 2 wonders per person

[Vecna]

Ideally we need half the town players to go for a wonder today and day3, and the rest on day 2 and 4 with the higher priority from skipping today.

So everyone flip a coin.

Tails: pick today
Heads; skip today, get higher priority, pick tomorrow.

THAT should be how we do it.

[Vecna]

Yep do the coinflip people.

True randomness works best here.

Pick day 1, skip day 2, pick day 3

Or do the same but on 2/4/6

Untill you get a wonder.

[Vecna]

Then we'll just find them and lynch 'em.

How will we deduce if they picked a pro-town role for themselves?

Dont overthink this too much, there really isnt much of a point to doing that

[Vecna]

Also, both heads of ours really want Drixx getting pyramids.

Being sure that we have these decrees all game seems like a way better option to me, if only for entertainments sake.

[Vecna]

The tree stump should claim so they can be investigated o3o

Too much talk about this tree stump. The answer is simple. If we cannot be quite certain about the talking tree's allignment after its been cut down, we treat it the same way as nero; we ignore its rambling.

[Vecna]

Drixx is taking the treestump.
There is no reason for anyone else to take it

Whoever takes treestump needs to be lynched or vigged as soon as possible.

Town won't give a shit, since they are still in the game, and if scum then they have no vote and won't count against our numbers and will probably not bother posting anyway.

PV, Drixx is taking the treestump and has asked to be cop investigated so he can be a permanent confirmed town voice.
As of now, that's the plan.

Yeah, and that makes sense to you?

I don't see a cop investigation wonder, so how will this be accomplished?

He can be a permanent confirmed town voice by coming in here and be town and stuff.

Stonehenge.

Thereby forcing the one cop investigative to stay locked on one player?

Nah. If Drixx wants no competition for treestump, he can come in and town the shit out of the thread.

Agreed

[Vecna]

PV, why should I be TRing you? Everywhere I go, you seem to be trying to derail me.

Hmmm these last bunch of posts from PV today havent put him as a pretty solid townread for you?

He is very quickly climbing my townread-mountain

[Vecna]

Friendly reminder that Notice is still scum.

Slightly less friendly extra emphasis on this point. Id like people to go back and look at my back and forth with him.

He's my biggest scumread. Id like more people to indicate they see what im seeing so we can get a wagon going here. Id much prefer this slot to be the counterwagon to Yuri than anyone else at this point since I feel it has the highest likelyhood to yield a SvS wagon race.

[Vecna]

PV, why should I be TRing you? Everywhere I go, you seem to be trying to derail me.

I don't care if you townread me, because that can come and go, like the wind....

I am constantly on my guard with you (Titus) because you used to be fairly easy to read for me, but as you've started playing longer, that has become harder for me.

Then, in some other games I weren't in, you experienced some mafia trauma that really toned down your rhetoric.

You can make good cases and scumhunt, but doing a useless vote count analysis and joining "why not?" wagons is not play I expect from you as town.

But, once again I get that play-styles evolve, so it could be town you.

But, I want to keep pulling and tugging at the mask until I feel it's really your face, and not a mask.

Does that make sense?

My case in point about my TR on PV, I might have way less games with Titus, but this is exactly how I feel.

I could see this mathblade scenario as a prerendered masterplan to throw us off. Its not super likely, but definately something that is continuously at the back of my suspicious mind.

[Vecna]

ooba will probably be replaced to be honest.

Day needs to last long enough for this to happen, even if the sub reads at night. In Mass Effect Mafia, due to the mods rules, town kept quicklynching for like 5 days thus I could not replace ooba.

Are you down for chatting with Math about Notice? Two rules though. Notice read cannot be conditioned on Vecna's alignment and Math cannot discredit you by saying you are scum.

Yes, make this happen

[Vecna]

if anybody but Drixx takes the treestump then i will personally grab a vig later and shoot them

is that a good enough reason for everybody?

Can you stop with this nonsense? Drixx can talk for himself. Drixx is a big boy. He's not there, and youre not his assistant/spokeswoman.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Maxous

[Vecna]

Vecna-reads

Towneads that I feel are almost certainly not faking it up:
LUV, PeregrineV,

Strong townreads of which I still feel could be faking it and be scum:
A&N, Frogger, DEO, Elbirn, Spiffeh

Group of nulls - im suspicious of anyone having strong townreads within this group
Leonshade, Creature, Ceasar, Sondam

The suspicious but not quite scumread group:
Albert, Maxous, Beeboy, Drixx, Ssbm, Ooba, Nero

Scumreads, would love to lynch:
NoticeMeSenpai, Yuri

Barring unforeseen devellopements, im gonna say now ill only want to lynch in the last 2 at this stage. Feel free to ask me for reasoning if you feel so inclined.

VOTE: NoticeMeSenpai

[Vecna]

VOTE: Maxous

Vote Yuri

WTF is this crap Vecna

I was driving a point home about about my displeasement with his conduct in regard to Drixx and the treestump thing, as much shouldve been rather obvious dont you think?

[Vecna]

Not caught up yet. Read up to about page 70.

Quick points:
A&N is obvtown. Stop it.
LUV, if I made consistent notes all the way through while I was catching up I literally would never have caught up with the rate you guys were churning out pages.
Vecna saying I avoided the thread after he voted me or some shit is an actual lie. It was a full hour of nothing from it since my last post and I had to have dinner and go to bed at some stage. And of course I'd have to iso it to find the posts that pinged me when it asked me to quote them. That argument would hold more weight if it didn't happen in a fucking fluid conversation where I was responding to things as I got them.
Frogger trying to set me up as mafia if it's multiball based off one comment that quite literally was just me not reading something properly makes me really uneasy.

VOTE: Vecna

I'm having a lot of trouble here because on the one hand some of its content is actually pretty solid, and on the other some is just super fucking slimey, like trying to tie me to Yuri because of the way Yuri was defending me despite the fact that Yuri has defended and attempted to buddy

a lot

of people this game. It really feels like it knows Yuri will flip scum and is trying to set up a mislynch on me. I feel like it's approaching the game from a set stances mindset.

Yuri: I'm not a fan of the buddying and whiteknighting, which I know is ironic coming from me. That said I don't feel like the emotional response to LUV's push to reveal their main was fake.
beeboy: I feel like the majority of your scumreads are lynchbait and you're usually better than that. That said, disagree with Spiffeh on the meta case. My meta on beeboy is the opposite way around, and more recent. He seems to have been largely disengaged with his games in general (at least roughly 6 months back).
LUV: I thought he was lock town with the way he was being a douche to Yuri and trying to get the main outed so he could talk about his read there, because it's something that is actually below the belt to do as scum. The fact that he later claims the whole push there was fake and he didn't actually know Yuri to begin with has me unsure what to think on it overall other than it being flat douchey tbh. That said, I think his push on me is more misguided than scummy.
Sondam: I think I can sort them given time, but I do need gerry to back up a bit on The DEO because I also think I can sort them given some time and interactions with both heads.

Since youre around now, let me tell you how I experienced your attacks on me:

you come into the thread with a scumread on me, because im apparently shading DEO.

I ask you to clarify this, and you do.

I tell you that I was defending myself, and discrediting reads off DEO against me and LUV.

You respond, stating ive never even hard-defended luv based on written reasons untill after post 670 or w/e

I show you that all the stuff you quoted, was me defending myself and discreditin the scumread i was getting from DEO, and I was only discrediting his read on LUV AFTER that post 670, showin you your points are moot.

No response to that whatsoever. My conclusion: fabricated read based on errors.

---------------------------------------------

Fast forward to now, and you do not even adress this point. You come in here and start scumreading me because I criticize you for avoiding the thread/my point.

Notice how this wasnt one of the two reasons why I voted you, or scumread you.

Your point about me tying Yuri to you, I do not recognize at all, and once again, I never stated this in my 2 reasons for scumreading you so I have no idea where this comes from.

I conclude, once again, that your rebuttle + vote is based on fabricated reasons, but ill read back to see what you mean about this Yuri thing to see if I can place it in case i have forgotten.

[Vecna]

....Bruh this is hilarious you were literally pushing a Jaereedhydra lynch on the basis that they slipped

Also the fact that you instantly think of this example in such a big game tells us something.

You really pay a lot of attention to what is happening in regards to Jeareed and A&E.

If you flip scum, ill take this as another suspicion point for the Jeareed Hydra.

Ah right, this is what you meant. Thank you for reminding me, because this was indeed an important observation.

--------------------------------------------------------

People, read up on the post sequence here.

A&N mentions a list of things he looks for as scum indications.

In less than a minute, Yuri chimes in with the throwback that A&N was doing one of these very things to JaeReed.

I notice that this is very suspicious. How would you read a list of things people use to look for scumtells and IMEDIATELY link it to something that person did to someone else in this game? And then mention this very example to throw it back in their face. You wouldnt, unless it has been going through your head recently.

I once again put forward the notion that if YURI flips scum, he was so quick with this leap in logic because he has been thinking about the scumslip/dumbtell that A&N was hammering on. I feel there is a potential strong association here between Yuri & Jaereed.

Its allmost too pretty to be true, but ive said it before: If Yuri is scum, this is condemning evidence against Jaereed in combination with my other points ive been putting forward.

VOTE: Yuri

[Vecna]

Speaking of, @Math why are you pushing a personality tell of mine as town indicative rather than null?

Math left again to prevent cursing me out because Vecna "stopped bussing". I'll answer this though, considering I do understand their position on meta. The type of mistake that you made, according to Math, is just too sloppy to come from scum.

Math needs to realize that people pushing it dont see it as a sloppy mistake, but as a backfired forced dumbtell that was meant to show they couldnt possibly be scum because they didnt even know how the scum wonder worked.

[Vecna]

Okay I have a deal for the Titus head when Math is not around.

That's now.

I agree to move Notice to null if they do the same for Vecna.

This is not acceptable. Especially not if Yuri does flip scum

[Vecna]

you come into the thread with a scumread on me, because im apparently shading DEO.

I ask you to clarify this, and you do.

I tell you that I was defending myself, and discrediting reads off DEO against me and LUV.

You respond, stating ive never even hard-defended luv based on written reasons untill after post 670 or w/e

I show you that all the stuff you quoted, was me defending myself and discreditin the scumread i was getting from DEO, and I was only discrediting his read on LUV AFTER that post 670, showin you your points are moot.

No response to that whatsoever. My conclusion: fabricated read based on errors.

You were continually trying to make sure people weren't going to listen to The DEO - my point
You aggressively tell me I'm full of shit basically unless I can produce quote evidence - your defense
I produce said quote evidence - my support to my point
You were defending yourself and discrediting reads off DEO against yourself and LUV - your defense
I point back to my said quote evidence having quotes before your defense of LUV, with only 1 of them being after that - my rebuttal to the last part of that
You tell me I'm full of shit, basically, because you know you're town and don't want people to listen to The DEO's read on you because of that - your defense

My point is not moot. You still shaded The DEO, and discredited their reads in general because of one wrong read on you. I'll give you that some of them could be you just flat defending from a bad read but things like 132 and 650 are actually you discrediting a person's reads as a whole rather than just the one on your own slot, and those were before you gave any reasons for LUV being town. If you're meta reading someone based off past experience you can't possibly expect everyone else in the game to have the same read as you.

False representation of what happened, ALL the posts you quoted were me defending either myself or LUV, none of them were about reads on anyone else.

[Vecna]

Let me ask you something Titus. Do you think ive been unjustly shading you?

[Vecna]

....Bruh this is hilarious you were literally pushing a Jaereedhydra lynch on the basis that they slipped

Also the fact that you instantly think of this example in such a big game tells us something.

You really pay a lot of attention to what is happening in regards to Jeareed and A&E.

If you flip scum, ill take this as another suspicion point for the Jeareed Hydra.

Ah right, this is what you meant. Thank you for reminding me, because this was indeed an important observation.

--------------------------------------------------------

People, read up on the post sequence here.

A&N mentions a list of things he looks for as scum indications.

In less than a minute, Yuri chimes in with the throwback that A&N was doing one of these very things to JaeReed.

I notice that this is very suspicious. How would you read a list of things people use to look for scumtells and IMEDIATELY link it to something that person did to someone else in this game? And then mention this very example to throw it back in their face. You wouldnt, unless it has been going through your head recently.

I once again put forward the notion that if YURI flips scum, he was so quick with this leap in logic because he has been thinking about the scumslip/dumbtell that A&N was hammering on. I feel there is a potential strong association here between Yuri & Jaereed.

Its allmost too pretty to be true, but ive said it before: If Yuri is scum, this is condemning evidence against Jaereed in combination with my other points ive been putting forward.

VOTE: Yuri

Except Yuri has literally been buddying the fuck out of and defending like half the playerlist, so this association is trash and ignoring the million other people who Yuri has done this to.

I'm pretty sure this just comes from someone who knows Yuri will flip scum because you're buddies, and you can't see a way to stop this ship from sinking so you want to tie me to them for an easy "justified" mislynch tomorrow.

I can only hope he will flip scum, and youre once again misrepresenting my case here. Im not talking about buddying.

im talking about a timing thing.

its almost a neurological argument.

A&E made a list of like 6-8 items that he uses to look for scumtells. It was a decent sized paragraph. Within a time-period of 60 seconds, Yuri identifies one of them as being ironic, because A&E did the very same thing with you.

My claim is that this is so short of a timeframe to have this very sharp response, that Yuri must have been thinking a decent chunk about this very fact before. You dont instantly have this fact availlable to throw it into someones face unless it has been deliberated upon earlier for other reasons. Notice how Yuri never engaged on this point before though.

That is the association that I see. One of potential scum teammates, by virtue of him instantly thinking of -your- case, out of all the potential people and all the other potential examples that mightve been in the thread at that point.

[Vecna]

....Bruh this is hilarious you were literally pushing a Jaereedhydra lynch on the basis that they slipped

Also the fact that you instantly think of this example in such a big game tells us something.

You really pay a lot of attention to what is happening in regards to Jeareed and A&E.

If you flip scum, ill take this as another suspicion point for the Jeareed Hydra.

Ah right, this is what you meant. Thank you for reminding me, because this was indeed an important observation.

--------------------------------------------------------

People, read up on the post sequence here.

A&N mentions a list of things he looks for as scum indications.

In less than a minute, Yuri chimes in with the throwback that A&N was doing one of these very things to JaeReed.

I notice that this is very suspicious. How would you read a list of things people use to look for scumtells and IMEDIATELY link it to something that person did to someone else in this game? And then mention this very example to throw it back in their face. You wouldnt, unless it has been going through your head recently.

I once again put forward the notion that if YURI flips scum, he was so quick with this leap in logic because he has been thinking about the scumslip/dumbtell that A&N was hammering on. I feel there is a potential strong association here between Yuri & Jaereed.

Its allmost too pretty to be true, but ive said it before: If Yuri is scum, this is condemning evidence against Jaereed in combination with my other points ive been putting forward.

VOTE: Yuri

Except Yuri has literally been buddying the fuck out of and defending like half the playerlist, so this association is trash and ignoring the million other people who Yuri has done this to.

I'm pretty sure this just comes from someone who knows Yuri will flip scum because you're buddies, and you can't see a way to stop this ship from sinking so you want to tie me to them for an easy "justified" mislynch tomorrow.

this ship wouldve been very easy to turn around or manipulate if I had such desires. Notice how I pushed it myself though and managed to secure Titus to push it alongside me.

Yeah good luck further arguing a potential connection there.

[Vecna]

Would you have done the same if people were unjustly scumreading you and building all their reads around it? Or the one person that was your biggest townread?

[Vecna]

....Bruh this is hilarious you were literally pushing a Jaereedhydra lynch on the basis that they slipped

Also the fact that you instantly think of this example in such a big game tells us something.

You really pay a lot of attention to what is happening in regards to Jeareed and A&E.

If you flip scum, ill take this as another suspicion point for the Jeareed Hydra.

Ah right, this is what you meant. Thank you for reminding me, because this was indeed an important observation.

--------------------------------------------------------

People, read up on the post sequence here.

A&N mentions a list of things he looks for as scum indications.

In less than a minute, Yuri chimes in with the throwback that A&N was doing one of these very things to JaeReed.

I notice that this is very suspicious. How would you read a list of things people use to look for scumtells and IMEDIATELY link it to something that person did to someone else in this game? And then mention this very example to throw it back in their face. You wouldnt, unless it has been going through your head recently.

I once again put forward the notion that if YURI flips scum, he was so quick with this leap in logic because he has been thinking about the scumslip/dumbtell that A&N was hammering on. I feel there is a potential strong association here between Yuri & Jaereed.

Its allmost too pretty to be true, but ive said it before: If Yuri is scum, this is condemning evidence against Jaereed in combination with my other points ive been putting forward.

VOTE: Yuri

Except Yuri has literally been buddying the fuck out of and defending like half the playerlist, so this association is trash and ignoring the million other people who Yuri has done this to.

I'm pretty sure this just comes from someone who knows Yuri will flip scum because you're buddies, and you can't see a way to stop this ship from sinking so you want to tie me to them for an easy "justified" mislynch tomorrow.

I can only hope he will flip scum, and youre once again misrepresenting my case here. Im not talking about buddying.

im talking about a timing thing.

its almost a neurological argument.

A&E made a list of like 6-8 items that he uses to look for scumtells. It was a decent sized paragraph. Within a time-period of 60 seconds, Yuri identifies one of them as being ironic, because A&E did the very same thing with you.

My claim is that this is so short of a timeframe to have this very sharp response, that Yuri must have been thinking a decent chunk about this very fact before. You dont instantly have this fact availlable to throw it into someones face unless it has been deliberated upon earlier for other reasons. Notice how Yuri never engaged on this point before though.

That is the association that I see. One of potential scum teammates, by virtue of him instantly thinking of -your- case, out of all the potential people and all the other potential examples that mightve been in the thread at that point.

All this says is Yuri is self-conscious. If there was a daychat, I might be skeptical, but there is not. So this has to be self conscious Yuri. No scum player adapts themselves to present to a buddy's tells. That doesn't make sense.

It also shows he was concious about what was happening to Jaereed. very much so in my opinion. Enough to call A&E out on it as it being self-contradicting in a very rapid fashion.

At any rate I will let this rest untill tommorrow. Lets focus on this flip first.

[Vecna]

Titus, how do I best engage mr ceasar about his wrong read on me to stop it from interfering with our work here. you know pine I assume.

Direct engagement with arguments, or ignoring?

[Vecna]

I apologize for attacking you over being asleep. I have no more interest in this discussion for now.

[Vecna]

I dont know. Refusing to read up is super-lame regardless.

[Vecna]

I understand its a time-investment, but it doesnt allow us to gauge the worth of anything he writes and is basically a top-notch excuse so we cannot hold him accountable for anything.

[Vecna]

At least his posts put a smile on my face, so id prefer to lynch other slot I have issues with for non-scum related reasons first. But this post will no doubt reinforce his belief im manipulating stuff.

[Vecna]

My prediction is this game is going to have a significant chunk of the scum among the big townreads.

[Vecna]

And to be fair, if Titus is scum at this point it certainly is the Magnus Opus of scumplays that puts my own performance in PYP to absolute shame, so at least thats one slot that can safely move up to the top tier of my townreads where im content ruling out trickery.

[Vecna]

I'm just gonna stop caring as much that will make me feel better

Cmon spiffeh, do you really feel that bad about a Yuri lynch?

People did engage with your Boob-read, and trust me that I did notice the huge change in playstyle as soon as the pressure became real.

[Vecna]

I mean, I understand frustration if people completely ignore you, but that does not appear to be the case at all?

[Vecna]

Why is notice not voting alongside us if he's so certain im bussing Yuri here?

[Vecna]

Like he stated he sees reasons to scumread me and reasons to townread me.

He takes great offense to me shading DEO.

Why is he not sheeping DEO, or me for the townstuff I did, OR me for bussing my teammate.

Get over your emotional response if you really are town

[Vecna]

He can ignore it all he wants, but I would like a response to the reasoning then wrt the first 3 lines.

[Vecna]

Id like to introduce games with a different format at this site sometime;

48-72h deadlines, person with the most votes at deadline is automatically lynched.

More interesting VCA that way as well, and a ton of fun psychological aspects stepping into play when the deadline is very near.

[Vecna]

Yes, Drixx.

I have a lumbering suspicion there that probably needs to be explored or put to rest.

[Vecna]

Is he a scum mastermind as well? Because ive been giving it thought and I think id find it trivially simple to manipulate the tree stump role as scum - and the assumption that itll get auto-sorted with investigative roles seems like very very wishfull thinking to me.

[Vecna]

That doesnt account for the scenario's where pyramid dies before stonehenge, or stonehenge doesnt die though.

But my main concern isnt what happens after the tree stump dies, but that its a lock to never die. Which is the perfect cover to endgame us early given competent scum.

[Vecna]

Vecna went from "There's no way Creature is scum" to "Only scum can strongly townread him"

lol

Funny how that works huh. But I stated ill be suspicious of anyone that strongly townreads anyone in that group.

[Vecna]

I do hope your overarching gameplan doesnt involve early massclaims again though. That is something I will, once again most likely, have a strong urge to combat.

[Vecna]

anyways, naptime.

Later

[Vecna]

I do hope your overarching gameplan doesnt involve early massclaims again though. That is something I will, once again most likely, have a strong urge to combat.

I didn't say plan, I said gamestate.

I have a zero percent urge to massclaim when the setup dictates we're all VTs at the moment.

P.S. We so would have won with massclaim in PyP though so :-p. I had that one little read wrong.

True, but only because I didnt get my way with scum picking full-on vigs/fruit vendors. If you had faced a team like that I think a massclaim wouldve resulted in swift annihilation.

[Vecna]

But it all stems from that meta read to be honest. Max and Kyouko push were pretty bad.

And I'm asking you why are you so concerned. You don't seem to be sweating everyone else as hard who has shown doubt about you.

The fact that my read "stems" from meta doesn't really matter. Why is that "bad"? What about my pushes on Max and Kyouko were bad? I want specifics.

I am giving you a hard time because your post about flipping me to clear Yuri was absolute shit and I'm trying to figure out if it's scum capitalizing on the general anti-Spiffy attitude or a genuine read.

General anti-spiffeh attitude?

Is that even a thing? In my view nearly everyone is townreading you, and a lot of people helped you push on beeboy which resulted in more activity from that slot.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Yuri

As much as I want to be stubborn and contrarian I'm town reading everyone on the wagon to at least some degree and Yuri does have some real problems.

I still think people should stop giving people the benefit of the doubt (namely beeboy)

It's really weird to me that so many people spoke out against my beeboy push either by saying I was pushing a counter wagon to scum or saying my meta reasons don't hold. Beeboy still has a lot wrong with his play and even if you just disagree with my reasons, nothing he has done so far looks town.

You are correct

[Vecna]

A treestump is good in the right hands. I was a strong advocate for Tammy to get it in The Thing because having her around the whole game would have kept me grounded and I recognized that.

Not only is there not a "Tammy" in this game, it's different here because we have to expend more resources (Stonehenge) to get the dead treestump confirmed, where I think that role could be better utilized to clear someone who is a question mark or if we're lucky clear someone later in the game when there are less places for scum to hide.

I dont know no Tammy, but I wouid actually FULLY support PV to get the stump. DEO wouldnt be bad either since the slot might not even survive the first night at this rate.

Both have been the voice of reasonable discourse, voices that I wouldnt want to see silenced.

Ive witnessed too many games recently where scum kills off the vocal town players and the game dies a silent death in the end where scum just wade through the apathy to a victory.

[Vecna]

A treestump is good in the right hands. I was a strong advocate for Tammy to get it in The Thing because having her around the whole game would have kept me grounded and I recognized that.

Not only is there not a "Tammy" in this game, it's different here because we have to expend more resources (Stonehenge) to get the dead treestump confirmed, where I think that role could be better utilized to clear someone who is a question mark or if we're lucky clear someone later in the game when there are less places for scum to hide.

Drixx is my Tammy.

I really still dont see how you can state this.

He has contributed absolutely nothing so far, except showing off his ego and attacking me. Not something id prefer to have guaranteed to be hounding me all game long.

Just stating that he's obv-town for being so vocal about wanting the stump does nothing to convince me otherwise either.

So ill mirror PV's sentiment here; if he wants it so badly he better earn it. Else I really hope it gets snatched by someone else. And please DEO, do consider building it yourself.

[Vecna]

Unless they come and in and do something I'd take kyouko over Yuri right now cause I am not overly compelled by the Yuri case.

What's wrong with the Yuri case?

I am just not really sold by it and would rather lynch A&N and Kyoko

So explain why your reasons for Kyoko are better than the presented reasons for Yuri

[Vecna]

I would love to give math some constructive feedback. But this is all confbiased as hell.

Only a flip will save math. And it not even be a Yuri one because they think Vecna, Spiff, and I are all bussing Yuri

How is it confbiased as hell? I have demonstrated what I think you are doing. The lack of hunting. 239 has random reads and doesn't address Loudmouth Vecna. Explain your none science none waffles and now that isn't trying to make sure not all scum are on none.

~~Math

Math, before adressing your wall, answer me

one

two things:

-Why would I hard townread ALL my teammates but then still proceed to bus one? If I could get such a strong townblock going with scum, why not just get some mislynches first? Everyone is townreading us, so its not like we need the extra towncred from bussing do we? Look at this request from a numbers pov please, because I would too. Tell me what you see.

-After last game, why do you not believe me when I say I wanted none because I saw clear abuse potential in the others by scum? If I was scum here I wouldve wanted and fought for science. Even last game as scum I was telling town what would help scum and I was being genuine about it.

Either way - you need to come to your senses regarding me because youre applying a completely false POV. If Yuri flips scum, at this rate its just going to reinforce your beliefs. If Yuri flips town, your beliefs will still be intact but you'll instead just think we coordinated together to mislynch town. Im not even going to try to discredit your other reads (except LUV) since I definately cannot tell for sure at this point about them. However, deducing those reads from the premise that I am scum is reasoning from the wrong vantage point.

[Vecna]

Funny story Titus and I actually agree we're likely the NK which is why were are getting both our thoughts out. We just think so for different reasons.

~~Math

Tell titus to build the stump.

[Vecna]

Three prongs of importance
1) Scum made none instantly the most popular by dogpiling on. Note: I do not feel this was an organic plan but more of a "let's deny Town information". Especially with Vecna who works better with less pieces in play.

I work better with less pieces in play? Id actually like to think my strongest point is managing to manipulate games with complex mechanics. I am not that different from Titus in this regard, and I especially love to do it as scum. I love to theorize about elaborate scum strategies to win. If you dont think this is true, go read our scum PT from PYP. If I was scum, I wouldve pushed hard for arts or science just to be able to execute one of many possible strategies with either.

2) Scum all defend each other and garcia in the first 11 pages.

If you think I decided to change up my scum play and do this, its a point I cannot really counter. However ill point you towards the way I treated my former teammates as scum in PYP. I never openly hard-townread any of them except LUV because I wanted him to survive to get his vigshot off at least once. I sowed suspicion the rest of them at every point and reaped the towncred, and used a tactical bus to get Titus discredited. Notice how none of that is required at this point, and openly forming a block with my scum teammates would be suicide and have no long-game working strategic idea behind it at all.

3) They attack anyone who isn't in that 5 to see who gets traction in those first pages.

Not to see who gets traction, but to poke for reactions and to gauge the honestly of their replies. Do you really honestly think town does not do this?

MidD1 (up til 800)
With the townread of the majority of the game in place and LUV being a wagon by A&N and Sondham things are going pretty damn good. Yuri's being voted by Titus and LUV is the only one with a vote on Leonshade on very weak sauce of naked. This is an excellent start. In the span of 30 posts Spiffeh gets voted by Maxous and Nero is something Spiffeh is trying to start using the boost of townreads. Frogger then floats a potential Maxous wagon and Titus at this point is eating up everything except Yuri. I can already see signs of it here. So I prepare for the uphill fight and try to scum hunt and confirm what I think. Beeboy votes the scums. Look who is a counter wagon at end game. Vecna takes the 3rd slot on the Maxous wagon. It's not his buddies who have done literal jack shit to hunt. LUV's vote has been sitting for a while and it protects his buddy.

Dont really have anything to comment, and I cba to go back to read if this is how it happened. I do have a hard time deducing what it is you see here exactly. I do know I was suspicious of spiffeh at some point, not sure if was at this point but that quickly vanished.

EndD1

As soon as I post my theory in post 800. Spiffeh panick votes Maxous.

Id say Spiffeh has been in pretty solid controll of the game at all times so far, and I dont particularly have the impression that panicking is something he does

They need to get a wagon mislynch asap with the flimsy excuse Nero's posts are better. Spiffeh's got a Creature town read down so he can sheep. Frogger then moves to the Yuri vote as its safe as too many scum on Maxous is bad and scums want a wagon to be town not scum. Maxous didn't happen because Maxous is town and the wagon is town driven.

Still not sure how anyone can be so sure about a Maxous townread. Ive observed him as my PT partner for the longest time last game and I dont quite get the same feelings from him.

Town realized their depr. Titus goes on her MariaR is scum paranoia because of the game Maria snowed her in. But Titus still scumreads Yuri. Pretty much because all the scum are being wagoned they're split all up on each other rather evenly minus LUV who is pushing NoticeMeSenpai/JaeReed with a naked vote. If scums start more wagons it becomes suspicious so they are all bussing each other. 1188 follows rule of three. LUV says Leon Yuri Notice. Leon is never happening and LUV noticed it before. Notice is falling apart. LUV is pinned. Outs Yuri as an alt but never actually posts a reason for scumreading Yuri praying it doesn't take off. 1253/1254 solidify it. He said Notice is confirmed but votes Yuri. That's dissonance town just doesn't do there. There's no reason to compromise. LUV still hasn't provided a reason other than knowing this isn't Yuri's town game. He's been pinned by prior posts and to have a consistent narrative he has to vote Yuri early. If he does it late he's fucked.

Scum starting more wagons suspicious? wut?
What can I say, I agreed with luv on Senpai but for more than that one reason. Saying notice fell apart is nonsense since it never got started.
Why would you poke at your scum partner being someone's alt?
The rest are ok points I guess that show inconsistencies in LUVs play, but I know I havent provided many reasons for my Yuri vote either. I do still think yuri + notice is a solid possiblity though

Spiffeh plays role of vote anyone not scum. First with Maxous now Beeboy.

Reasons for townreading both these slots? Im just not seeing it, and I think youre only TR'ing them because your scumreads are pushing them.

Frogger now departs his buddies wagon and votes beeboy because it has steam. This is a clear attempt to save Yuri.
Vecna then hops on as well.

Guess this does fit in your theory. Its not the reasoning why I did it though

What's really interesting is then Vecna and Frogger move to Yuri together in the span of ~50 posts.

If he's our scum buddy why would we do this as opposed to staying on Beeboy - who actually changed up his play after getting pressured. Surely it wouldve been super easy to get this lynched instead?

During those approximate posts Vecna hiveminds LUV with the same Notice/Yuri/someone else threesome. Why do scum always do threesomes? It's annoying. It's also RIGHT AFTER I call them out for not bussing Yuri.

Why do you not adress my points as opposed to just calling it hiveminding?

Vecna defends Frogger in it as well. Then LUV says to "Fuck it" and lynch Yuri. Then scums start hopping on. It's because I pointed it out. If scums didn't hop on it'd be caught in a review of the game.

Once again, youre seeing things that arent there. Im perfectly fine winning as scum without publicly coordinating with my buddies. This is not that. Its me trying to form a townbloc.

Town then votes A&N for the derp wagon and it starts to dissolve. Vecna satisfied with the stallout tries to revive NoticeMeSenpai. When that goes no where it goes back to Yuri. Spiffeh then hops on because the Yuri wagon is what is happening today. If they bail it looks suspicious. Scums have to vote Yuri.

It did go somewhere. Like I argued I believe a Yuri scumflip will be incriminating to notice. So doing yuri > notice is the logical order of lynches.

I can understand that sometimes I'm not listened to because it seems like I'm OMGUSing. However it's hard when someone throws shade before you even post anything other than I'd like sciences. That's one opinion and they were doubtcasting anyone's ability to solve the game. I can see where it seems like that but at the same time it's really not. LUV could have a drinking game with how much he has shaded Titus's ability to solve the game before Titus caved and voted the end of none.

People throw shades at you because from their point of view your scumread (+reasoning) on themselves is nonsense. Maybe not the best course of action, but its completely understandable. And yes, you are arguing out everything based on the premise that I am scum (allthough your wall also did show some isolated points that im willing to give the benefit of the doubt). Ive allready stated I think a significant chunk of the scum is going to be in the big townreads. THat is just a fact of life when the setup contains way above average levels of talent.

Look at the final vote:
None (11): Lil Uzi Vert, Vecna, Sondam, Spiffeh, Albert B. Rampage, Elbirn, Leonshade, Akane and Nebby, Maxous, beeboy, The DEO

I'm not scumreading all 11 people there. I hard townread Sondham, ABR, Elbrin, Leonshade, A&N, Maxous, beeboy and I know our slot is town.

How can you hard townread Leonshade, ABR, Maxous and beeboy? I really really do not get it, and id like to see an explenation (sorry if I missed it on one of them, but I dont think so)

What is interesting is Frogger's switch to sciences which I call out in my PT. I even called Maria scumsiding for doing it and I had a hard town Maria read based on the first few posts. It's not the strategy it's how they posted about it and how they all interact with each other.

Wish you'd give me this courtesy as well, because I think ive been rather solid in my explenation of why I wanted <none>.

I also have an extremely hard time seeing how it's not Vecna/LUV/Frogger/Spiffeh/Yuri. But if I'm wrong on someone it's probably Yuri. If any of these flip town I will reassess then, yet I just don't see it. I've listened to Titus for hours but just nothing happening.

~~Math

I wont claim that theres only 1 scum in there. There are some people that are widely townread that are going to be fooling us. Im convinced of that. And we need to figure out who it is. IT IS NOT ME THOUGH. So please, please - stop confbiassing everything around that because id strongly prefer to work with you. But atm youre making it impossible.

[Vecna]

Funny story Titus and I actually agree we're likely the NK which is why were are getting both our thoughts out. We just think so for different reasons.

~~Math

Tell titus to build the stump.

We will likely not. I am a big fan of not interfering with my plans of townreads, particularly when they make themselves self resolving play. If you can convince us Drixx is scum, you got a tall order, but we'd consider it. Drixx is the only TR aside from A and N that Math and I both share as strong solid town.

Good night.

~Titus

Is Drixx' activity level also a mountainous climb? As in, will he become more active later on in the game with his insights? Will they grow in quality?

I did not vibe well with his catchup wall at all, and im unimpressed with his activity levels so far. Yes its a lame reason to attack him, but its a great reason to not want him as our stump right now.

[Vecna]

At any rate regarding Drixx - this is another variation of how I could see myself abusing it.

Claim you want it, but bank on you not getting it. This both provides an excuse for not getting nightkilled and gets you towncred. You then state people who do have it should not out.

It is very very likely that the era that brings us the cop also brings us a godfather wonder. Theres even variations where its likely to assume that a resolution providing two wonders per person pops up at some point (the mod even hinted at this - either that or a wonder that allows you to build two additional wonders), which allows even more variations of this approach.

[Vecna]

Im wondering if Math's play is a stratagem for survival

[Vecna]

I do love the too scummy to be scum approach day1 to get 30-40% to scumread me and then smooth-sail through the rest of the game being virtually immune to NK's.

[Vecna]

How do you feel a Yuri scumflip reflects on Spiff?

(@frog)

[Vecna]

Im wondering if Math's play is a stratagem for survival

They are either town playing good cop bad cop with their heads, or they are scum, or they are town and Math is the worst ever non-newbie I've ever played with

It does create for a refreshing/interesting dynamic either way.

[Vecna]

Hmmm im even considering bidding on the stump myself by now. The only thing holding me back is self-knowledge that my towngame without being able to rely on solid mechanic discussion is rather hit and miss.

[Vecna]

Hmmm im even considering bidding on the stump myself by now. The only thing holding me back is self-knowledge that my towngame without being able to rely on solid mechanic discussion is rather hit and miss.

DONT YOU DARE. THAT IS DRIXX'S.

That's something me and Titus agree on.

~~Math

So you continue to scumread me, but you do appeal to me to work with you? This makes no sense, you cannot have it both ways.

[Vecna]

Also stating I was hampering my townreads with my none choice: Nonsense, most my townreads at that time voted right alongside me.

[Vecna]

You've been saying it's anti town to vote anything other than none because it helps scum. But I don't feel you explored the town benefits or listened to anyone else. It feels like you had an agenda and pushed it with complete disregard for what your townreads were saying.

I have actually admitted there were possible townreasons as well for voting Science, after Drixx brought up a list of them.

All in all im not really sure what youre expecting of me here. Youre pretty much announcing to the world youre going to keep tunneling me no matter what, and I dont really see any way to change your mind in more of a capacity than what ive been attempting. All this will accomplish in the long run is that one of us has to die before lylo, but im quite sure scum is going to see to that regardless.

I think ive provided strong reasoning for everything ive done this game, bar my vote on Yuri (allthough here I have also stated I agree with the case that was presented on him, AND that I feel it holds valuable information regarding JaeReed).

Ill continue to attempt and ease your suspicions, but im not going to give up my reads to do so - unless other events give me cause to do so. Continue your crusade against me if you must, but in the end youre going to be proven painfully wrong (on account of ME at least).

[Vecna]

I have NEVER townread Drixx. Everytime someone has been stating a TR on that slot ive called them out on it.

Noone has been able to provide ANY reasoning for it, besides him announcing he'd like a treestump.

[Vecna]

And indeed I did not have a strong list of town-reads during the Resolution phase. So what, anyone that did at that point was full of shit. As for after that:

This would be my christmas tree: I like the coherance of the story this is telling, allthough it does point towards it either going way too smoothly or a portion of the people barking up the completely wrong tree.

Yuri (5):

Lil Uzi Vert

,

The DEO

,

Akane and Nebby

,

Vecna, Fro99er

Akane and Nebby

(5):

Yuri

,

Maxous

,

beeboy

,

Nero Cain

,

Albert B. Rampage

beeboy

(4):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

PeregrineV

,

Spiffeh

,

Creature

NoticeMeSenpai

(1):

Elbirn

The DEO

(1):

Sondam

Fro99er

(1):

Leonshade

Sondam

(1):

Drixx

Not Voting (3):

Caesar Wills It, ooba,

NoticeMeSenpa

Vecna-reads

Towneads that I feel are almost certainly not faking it up:
LUV, PeregrineV,

Strong townreads of which I still feel could be faking it and be scum:
A&N, Frogger, DEO, Elbirn, Spiffeh

Group of nulls - im suspicious of anyone having strong townreads within this group
Leonshade, Creature, Ceasar, Sondam

The suspicious but not quite scumread group:
Albert, Maxous, Beeboy, Drixx, Ssbm, Ooba, Nero

Scumreads, would love to lynch:
NoticeMeSenpai, Yuri

Barring unforeseen devellopements, im gonna say now ill only want to lynch in the last 2 at this stage. Feel free to ask me for reasoning if you feel so inclined.

VOTE: NoticeMeSenpai

[Vecna]

Anyways im just going to do the cocky thing here.

Youre not going to get me lynched. 75%+ of the population has a decent - strong townread on me. Besides that, youre wrong on me. You'll be completely UNABLE to get me lynched, so do the practical thing and focus elsewhere.

Im not going to turn a blind eye to your other reads since I cannot rule out with utmost certainty that youre wrong on those. Ill be availlable to discuss anything. Consider this my olive branch to you; ill not shade you, ill not personally attack you, but I wont blindly agree with everything you say either unless I agree with the reasoning beyond it.

[Vecna]

Ill keep an open mind about Spiffeh. I would like to hear Titus input on Jaereed she was talking about though, since she saw what I noticed with the connection between Jaereed <--> Yuri but stated she had a different conclusion in mind.

And yes, a Yuri scumflip looks worse on a select few people from my pov, of which spiffeh sort of is one of them.

[Vecna]

And im not sure me making a case on Yuri after ive allready commited to the wagon will result in anything but conf-bias. Lets just say I agree and subscribe to the points brought forward by Frogger.

Also, if yuri does flip scum, my townread on Frogger will grow even stronger - because I do not agree that pushing so hard as a bus on D1 has any merit as scum at all in a setup like this.

[Vecna]

Also, my biggest townread starting in the resolution phase was LUV. Thought process about mechanics is easily faked.

[Vecna]

Vecna, you had me as strong town earlier, what happened?

People showed me meta where you also type a lot as scum. I still had your deathnote game in mind as my only meta-reference of your scumgame, and remember you did tell me at the start of PYP that you always lurk as scum

[Vecna]

Give me the tldr
~Maria

We made a townblock

Youre not part of it.

nananana

[Vecna]

Vecna, you had me as strong town earlier, what happened?

People showed me meta where you also type a lot as scum. I still had your deathnote game in mind as my only meta-reference of your scumgame, and remember you did tell me at the start of PYP that you always lurk as scum

Checking my post count is sorta a lazy way to try to sort me.

Yep, so I stopped.

[Vecna]

Part of me hopes Yuri flips town so MathBlade gets a reality check

This works just as well with the story though, probably even better.

[Vecna]

Less active for a period due to work. Will try to catch up in 8 hours or else 32 hours or so.

[Vecna]

That was a hammer right? Still have to catch up on the last 20 pages or so but at least now I wont have to hurry

[Vecna]

You'll get a lot of grief soon regardless scumbucket

[Vecna]

Aeroaut not posting in Caesar Wills It is a huge red flag and they need to be taken care of very soon if he continues not participating.

I'm guessing this is something similar to how Aristophanes is known for lurking as scum?

A game of each alignment for reference on that would be nice if so.

I haven't held any bad feelings towards the posting from the slot so far in reads and the way they've pushed them, and I think scum generally try to not draw as much attention to themselves as the roleplaying is doing.

Different players approach scumplay in very different ways. Plenty of players love being the center of attention as scum, so unless you have solid arguments as to why this doesnt apply to pine......

[Vecna]

im not summarizing my stances bc ive already given em, town can ISO me after i die if they give a shit. just dont look at like.. the first half of the posts cause i sucked. the later stuff is not shit so feel free to look at my opinions and why. including Vecna sr idk that post pinged me hard and i listen to that stuff

So I'm nearly fully up to date and this is something I want addressed before a lynch since I've had this niggling feeling all day while trying to catch up.

Vecna pushing on me as scum, then saying I'm teamed with Yuri because of Yuri bringing up the slip tell that Nebby dropped himself.
So Vecna decides that if Yuri flips scum then I have to be scum, so he switches up to voting Yuri.

That disregards that he's not scumreading me for being associated with Yuri though. No matter Yuri's flip I think Vecna will be aiming to lynch me, and he's associating me with Yuri now to justify lynching Yuri first. At first I thought it was a bus because he couldn't get the support to lynch me today and his partner was failing the buddy up to town game enough to have garnered a decent amount of suspicion with Frog's case but idunno.

I actually want more discussion on this. I also want Drixx and dave to be able to catch up and post thoughts before we rush into a night phase. Agreeing with Nero that the higher posters need to cool it for a bit to let others post if we're gonna wait for catch ups and have more discussion though.

Summary of this post; misframing my statements and using speculations of my actions tomorrow to try and derail our current wagon.

[Vecna]

In fact, it even misframes the order of things. Yuri was a thing before you were. My 2 points for scumgreading you came before I notice the potential link between you and yuri.

You pretending that im using this link to justify my actions is laughable

[Vecna]

Sorry, I didn't really pay attention.

Notice, are you opposing Yuri wagon?

I don't even know man. I'm saying I want more opinions than just the 5 loudest people in the thread drowning out everyfucking one else and forcing everything to happen their way or no way. I don't want another 20+ pages to have to read when I wake, and I don't want another catch up where I feel extremely uncomfortable because of someone doing something that I think it's just toxic towards another person. I've been reading this all day after hitting my head last night and I'm cranky, nauseated, headachey, dizzy, and I don't have the patience to hold back my opinion on some people if certain behaviours continue.

I'm saying I'm not happy with the number of people I don't have sorted, nor the way people are trying to rush the day or control where the votes go so it's not a natural progression of things. I'm not happy with the way some things are getting completely ignored and not even discussed or asked about. I'm not happy with the way people want to end the day when 2 people declared intent to catch up and we have an actual chance to get a better read on those slots too.

This Ill specify as an extreme AtE.

This is one of the least toxic mafia games ive ever played. Everyone is rather polite after the little squable between me and Drixx (unless something has majorly changed in the last 20 pages, I still have some catching up to do).

This game has progressed naturally just fine. People have formed reads of people they see as town, and theyre fine sheeping them.

Youre trying to drive a wedge between people here.

[Vecna]

Vecna pushing on me as scum, then saying I'm teamed with Yuri because of Yuri bringing up the slip tell that Nebby dropped himself.

This part is true.

So Vecna decides that if Yuri flips scum then I have to be scum, so he switches up to voting Yuri.

I indicated strong willingness to vote yuri before I ever mentioned your name.

That disregards that he's not scumreading me for being associated with Yuri though.

I have provided several other reasons for this. Dont pretend like this link with yuri is the only one.

No matter Yuri's flip I think Vecna will be aiming to lynch me, and he's associating me with Yuri now to justify lynching Yuri first.

It indeed is an extra reason, on top of my earlier willingness to lynch Yuri. And I was fine with voting you before I saw this potential connection.

At first I thought it was a bus because he couldn't get the support to lynch me today

Misrep, pretending he is the sole reason why ive been indicating willingness to lynch Yuri.

and his partner was failing the buddy up to town game enough to have garnered a decent amount of suspicion with Frog's case but idunno.

Do you mean LUV with this? Because he's the most townread player in this game lol. Either way, youre pretending I have a partner now all of a sudden why your overview earlier indicated you were still thinking I was town.

I actually want more discussion on this. I also want Drixx and dave to be able to catch up and post thoughts before we rush into a night phase. Agreeing with Nero that the higher posters need to cool it for a bit to let others post if we're gonna wait for catch ups and have more discussion though.

If you had just said this your post would not have recieved any attention. Why link it to all the previous stuff - while you were townreading me before? And why warp all the stuff that happened to reinforce your point?

Like I said, misrepping what happened. Misrepping that I havent brought forward other reasons to want you lynched even before I even came forward with the connection.

[Vecna]

This Ill specify as an extreme AtE.

This is one of the least toxic mafia games ive ever played. Everyone is rather polite after the little squable between me and Drixx (unless something has majorly changed in the last 20 pages, I still have some catching up to do).

This game has progressed naturally just fine. People have formed reads of people they see as town, and theyre fine sheeping them.

Youre trying to drive a wedge between people here.

Are you seriously fucking kidding me?

LUV's thing trying to out Yuri's main made me really fucking uncomfortable.
Titus's constant shutting down and putting down of Math and making them feel like their opinions don't matter makes me really fucking uncomfortable.

That is toxic. Toxicity isn't always yelling and screaming. Forcing people into revealing outside game links they don't want to is toxic. Gaslighting is toxic.

Does anyone actually buy this? Or feel the same?

The alt-thing with luv was a minor detail that got resolved quickly.

I actually feel that Titus is showing a very mature way of dealing with the difference in opinion between her and Math.

[Vecna]

Frustration and tone feel very real

I disagree completely.

[Vecna]

More and more im getting the feeling that Titus might be onto something.

What if it indeed is as simple as it appears and we have a very strong townblock that is already on the right track? And we have our aims set on a number of scum allready.

There is a lot of desire to dissolve our little alliance here, even though the people that try to attack it have no scumreads in the block (maybe some of em have 1 or so).

Im leaning towards a scumteam of Yuri + Notice + Maxous here, with the addition of some people maybe that are not very active and maybe 1 deep undercover scum that is hiding in plain sight among us (or maybe even none of the last category).

Like, ive never seen so much attacking of my day1 scumteam theory. Maybe because ive never been correct about them day1....but this feels like unnatural opposition.

I think were/im on the right track.

[Vecna]

Vecna: srsly how the heck do you bring up that thing w jaereed as a point? what exactly is strange about me remembering that nebby had pushed jaereed for the 'slip'? i was obvs paying attention to nebby, was SRing them, and when they said it was a tell they liked ofc i immediately made the connection to that whole slip argument earlier. how tf could you KNOW i wouldnt remember that?

Speed speed speed. It was in under a minute, and that included typing out the post

[Vecna]

Maria what about my Vecna vote makes u sure im town. what do you expect scum me to have done in this situation instead

The vote doesn't feel survivalist like it feels like you really sr Vedna and want a wagon on him I feel like if you were scum you would've gone for a wagon that could've got you more traction like Luv Me Deo Notice etc

Or maybe he votes me in the hopes I go after Notice next (in case of yuri scum, notice town)

There can be many explanations really.

[Vecna]

Btw, if Yuri is lynched and flips town, someone must pay.

Who offers to be the next lynch incase Yuri is town?

This is the starting point where I look at creature's post in a new light.

Welcome to my suspicion list.

[Vecna]

My personal number 1 lynch is ABR.

~Titus

Not a terrible lynch. Ditto ceasar

[Vecna]

I want this yuri thing to happen so Math and Titus can at least vote in their one similar read.

This line is bullshit btw "I just want to push a lynch for someone else and no reason at all <3" OH PLEASE
~Maria

That's town synergy.

~Titus

No it's an excuse for when Yuri flips town
~Maria

Didnt you mean to say "if" maria?

[Vecna]

Math, if you don't talk to me on skype, I'm self-voting as I view you as the single most toxic thing to this gamestate right now.

So these things was what nothing was talking about I guess.

Still reading on with missed pages to evaluate if it was genuine, or just misunderstanding how real town feels about the gamestate atm.

[Vecna]

Tbh I kinda don't like Yuri jumping on the most convenient counter wagon to himself and suddenly being convinced beeboy is scum despite town reading him early on.

I mean this is really the only thing that makes me go "ok yeah, maybe Yuri is scum"

but at the same time....so her read on Bee changed. Town do that all the time.

Suspicion points for this. I have Deathnote flashbacks again with this Nero

[Vecna]

Well I have to go to work, wake me up when vecna/uzi/notice proceed to either ignore my shitty wagon or otherwise miss it in all of this pointless noise

Taa Taa and farewell


Pedit; Jesus christ shut the fuck up
Pedit2: yuri what the fuck did I just say
Pedit 3: no go ahead Sondam, I'll wait. Oh..Oh are you done? Okay, my turn to post.
Pedit 4: I am never playing a large ever again
Pedit 5: if I get another pedit I may replace out

Not too fond of this either

[Vecna]

I am never playing a large ever again

TBF, its not larges that are the problem its the ego's that are the problem. It was pretty clear that one of Bee or Yuri was going to be lynched today and this day phase should have ended days ago. Sometimes I feel like there's been scum theater (DEO vs. Venca) and the big personalities are talking up a storm b/c they are scum and want to make it look like they are hunting. Or maybe they just think they are the sharpest tools in the shed.

On the one hand, I like this post.....because it probably has a margin of truth to it....

But on the other hand, how do you not realize those ego's are all voting the same person and its the rest thats not sheeping?

Meh Nero

[Vecna]

Maria, TBF...Frogger is right. Stop pulling a Titus and trying to argue that you are right when you aren't.

Hmmm dont think scum would jump in like this to pick one side of a 3way argument and trying to resolve it. Good boy points for Nero

[Vecna]

Okay that wasn't the only reason what's your point that was still one of the worst lines in this whole thread WHAT TOWN POSTS THAT?
~Maria

Does it matter? Frogger has literally been death tunneling the slot all game long.

So what if he posts another post with only 1 additional reason for wanting the slot dead.

[Vecna]

Jesus even if Maria and I are wrong on Frogger you should at least let Maria talk so you can have a read on her tomorrow.

We are lynching Yuri and all players regardless of opinion should be able to play the game. They may be mocked ridiculed shamed and lynched for the opinion but this not being allowed to have an opinion is shit.

~~Math

I dont wanna live in a world where Frogger can be this convincing as scum. do you?

[Vecna]

If Yuri flips scum I might be more interested in Spif tbh.

-Nebby

A freaking men.

At least Yuri/Spiffeh/Frogger is finally getting traction.

~~Math

Yay I succesfully convinced Math im no longer part of the group? And neither is LUV?

Awesome progress!

The rest of the 2/3 are not impossible, we might work together just fine yet, math (allthough Frogah )

[Vecna]

If Yuri flips scum I might be more interested in Spif tbh.

-Nebby

10000% this

O snap, the mary band of 5 is breaking apart then eh?

[Vecna]

Creature,

you said you're not opposed to Yuri.

Sondam is not happening. Vote Yuri

First I need volunteers to take the lynch if Yuri flips town.

that's not how this works.

If you're scum, this is straight up lining up lynches.

Even if youre town its that.

But creature is appearing more and more to just be gloating from the sidelines.

[Vecna]

Claiming

1-shot Town Friendmaker

Friend: The Deo & Nero

Now you two have to be friends and stop argueing about games that aren't related to this one. <3

-Nebby

I'm ok with Nero arguing I'm scum or scumreading me. As Math needs to leave or we need to die. I'm not ok with Nero shitting on my skill as a player or an ego fest.

~Titus

I'm okay with that too.
I'm not okay with you fighting about a game that ended.
I'm not okay with him shitting on your skill as a player.
I'm not okay with this ego fest.

-Nebby

Say, what do you think of

ooba, Casear, Spiffeh, ABR,

Nero

,

PV

as a pool for my suspects tomorrow? (More than 5 I know).

Strike 2, maybe even spiffeh

Add Notice and potentially creature. Guess I need to remake my list after im fully caught up.

[Vecna]

Lynch Vote 1.27

Yuri (8):

Lil Uzi Vert

,

Akane and Nebby,

Vecna

,

Spiffeh

,

beeboy

,

Fro99er

,

The DEO

,

Nero Cain

beeboy

(3):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

PeregrineV

,

Yuri

Sondam

(2):

Drixx

,

Creature

Akane and Nebby

(1):

Albert B. Rampage

Vecna

(1):

Caesar Wills It

ssbm_Kyouko

(1):

Maxous

Fro99er

(1):

Leonshade

NoticeMeSenpai

(1):

Elbirn

Not Voting (3):

ooba

,

NoticeMeSenpai, Sondam

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to to lynch.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-02-21 10:05:30), at which point we will default to no lynch.

nero should be blue i dont feel like fixing it tho bc mobile

You townread Drixx and ssbm over all those blue people? wow

[Vecna]

yes

In what way is ABR's play acceptable? Help me out here. I see the glaring inconsistency and zero attempt to solve the game and that's not ABR as either alignment.

Question; why dont you apply this VERY SAME metric to Drixx? You know, the person that has posted -twice- since the resolution stage?

[Vecna]

I'm 40 pages behind and it looks like I may not get to catch up. I just wanted to apologize. Now that it's over, I can point out that I was in hydra as last scum in a Varsoon large theme trying to pull out the win against all odds, and it was eating up a lot of time. I sincerely apologize, as when I signed up for this, I expected that game to end much more quickly than it did. Won't be inactive going forward (although holy crap nearly 3k posts on day one).

Ah ok, this makes sense then.

Still not gonna forget everyone mindlessly townreading your slot so hard though without any reasoning provided.

[Vecna]

As for town reads, extremely strong on The DEO, Peregrine, Creature, and Fro99er. Drixx, A&N, Sondam, and Uzi seem pretty town too but not as strong.

Vecna I was town reading pretty hard from their attitude in the Resolution Phase but nothing after that gave me extreme town vibes so I'm only leaning town there. Same with Nero Cain, and NoticeMeSenpai because their frustration for being pushed for some bullshit reason (dw I can relate) reads as genuine. Elbirn sounds tonally town but I haven't read his posts close enough to really commit there one way or another.

I think that's everyone?

I realize I did this before reading the last 15 pages thoroughly but oh well

Here again.....

So you had strong townvibes from me in resolution phase, but im lower down you list beacuse you dont like the stuff I did since as much..... somehow you manage to townread Drixx over me though, can you explain that?

Doesnt seem like consistant reasoning at all to me.

[Vecna]

@Elbrin: I'm scum reading Yuri just as much as Notice. I can do either at this point but its clear that Yuri is more likely to go through today than Notice.

@Math: My agenda is to fine scum and I will ignore you to do that if I have to. I don't have the time or energy to attempt to pocket Titus and I wouldn't even try to as scum because it's better to feed into her moon logic than attempt to pocket her. Also None was the best choice overall and we drilled that explanation through the heads of those that opposed it. I'm sorry you couldn't see it.

@Titus: I'm cool with Leon, Yuri, Notice, and Spiffy. I think we've have gotten everything we can out of today.

I continue being pleased to be on your team back2back

[Vecna]

If Yuri is scum reads:
{DEO, Creature, LUV, Vecna, Frogger, Drixx, Elbrin}
{Notice, PV}
{Ooba, Caesars, Leon}
{Jesus, ABR, Spiffeh}
{Maxous, Kyouko}
{Beeboy, Sondam}
{Yuri}

If Yuri is town:
{Yuri}
{DEO, LUV, Frogger, Drixx, Elbrin, Spiffeh}
{Notice, PV}
{Ooba, Caesars, Leon}
{ABR, Creature, Vecna}
{Sondam, Maxous, Kyouko, Jesus}
{Beeboy}

-Nebby

How does my allignment tumble that hard based on a flip? That makes very little sense to me. can you explain it please?

[Vecna]

Notice is not town.

lol town!LUV is stuck in a tunnel.

-Nebby

A tunnel heading towards the light.

[Vecna]

I think I should consult Akane about Vecna.
If only Akane would talk to me ;~;

-Nebby

Yes I think Alisea probably has decent input about me.

[Vecna]

Talk to me about LUV and how that comes from a town player.

~~Math

LUV operates differently from you math. He is a really strong intuition based player. Observation and deduction is what he does, analyzing/reasoning not so much.

Dont take this the wrong way if im wrong LUV, thats just how I view your process. Nothing wrong with it, nothing at all. Just different from how Math/Titus do things.

[Vecna]

Yes please I would like that meta.

The meta I have from LUV is that he lurks hard as Town. I would love a meta where he doesn't.

12 hours is not enough time to hear from everyone and we none voted in less than that.
Anyone who thinks they listened to every person's opinion or asked for it is deluding themselves.

~~Math

Id actually say he lurks hard as scum. He posted very sporadic in PYP

[Vecna]

Why are we lynching with 10 days left

Why the fuck would you want another 100 pages*?


I doubt we'd hit another 100 but my point is that the day has went on long enough.

I'd be some day continue if, and only if, the players with 100+ would STFU and only let the "lurkers" post. Though there's prob some scum in the uber posters.

More townpoints for this actually. Ive seen scumnero be the person himself that would spam the thread relentlessly with a lot of posts/hour.

[Vecna]

Most games are ongoing.

But if you feel you have to make an apology for inactivity you are lurking.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=28406

Will read the other games later.

~~Math

92 is a shade post and partially why I scumread LUV. It is a negative post that shades the entire game, suggests we won't lynch scum and that if he doesn't get what he wants right now the world ends. It is less than 100 posts into the game. Way too early for doomsday scenarios.

~~Math

Dont think ive seen LUV shade anyone in PYP....he was very very non-confrontational.

[Vecna]

I am not. ABR can be protown. I just realize he is different than me.
He finds things he believes, says quirky one liners about it, then pushes it until he either sees A) they are Town or B) lynches and gets a flip.
He did the exact same with D&D.
ABR can and will be protown and as much as he scumreads us then it is still protown so others understand we are Town. I have no problems with him hunting is.

~~Math

Here you are, creating a fucking narrative for him rather than actually talking to your hydra partner and letting him post.

This doesn't help anyone see ABR as town, particularly coming from you since you're confbiased to hell. ABR has to do this himself.

You defending everyone who you don't want lynched isn't persuading anyone. It's just lengthening the game and stopping town from reaching our own conclusion.

You know, im actually gonna formally request you to let mathblade talk Titus.

I think its refreshing and he's probably right about at least a few things.

In the end I think it probably works out best if you both just share your opinions in here and let the rest pick out the argument they like.

Id probably like that more than this scenario where you lock eachother up and alternate. Youve been doing it for a while now, and I think it works fine.

[Vecna]

I looked at Maria's ISO in PYP (I went there to get a look at Vecna's scumgame but I ended up reading Maria's ISO instead) and if that's indicative of Maria's scum game, I think she's town here. She's clearly putting in actual effort here, whereas in PYP it looked like she was just coasting by and not paying as much attention. I also felt that gerry seriously thought that he had found scum with that contradiction of DEO's.

I find myself agreeing with you, BUT I also know the two of them arent past faking this meta since they know half this game is a copy of that playerlist.

[Vecna]

I wonder if DEO's hydra dissonance is just scum theater. Titus and Math having a lot of disagreements is believable, but making it so public could be a deliberate move to make the thread unreadable.

I would be skeptic of anyone else townreading me thus far, but I can see it with Math. I looked their reasoning up in their ISO (three pages, jfc) and Math has actually picked up on one of the key differences between my scum and town games, I'm much more cautious as scum.

Could also be town theater to avoid getting nkd.

[Vecna]

Anyone who sr's Notice after what there posting needs a huge reality check cause that slot is obv af town also I don't think people really care for that townblock if people are trying to shade a townblock out of frears that's lol
~Maria

Ok say I reset my memory Maria, can you explain to me as if im 10 why you have this strong of an opinion on notice?

Im capable of resetting my read. A lot of people whose opinion is probably trustworthy are telling me to.

Provide me some solid reasoning please.

[Vecna]

So for everyone else, I'll explain. Titus has been tunneling me for the past 3-5 games (can't remember exactly) for hundreds of pages at a time, basically until we both get endgamed. We constantly lose. I have adopted the strategy of ignoring her for the past 2-3 games and I think she needs drama in her life so she always comes back. I don't want to reward that kind of toxic behavior. In every game we are in I always give her a chance and she chooses to target me out of a field of 25-30 players and it got old quick.

thats all fine and dandy, and I sympathise for your predicament but.....

Can you then please just ignore her and at least share your observations and reads of this game with the rest of us? Because you havent given us a lot to sort your slot at all. Not saying thats AI, but id love for you to conjure some stuff that IS AI.

[Vecna]

Mod: replace me please

oh ok

[Vecna]

Whatever, I'll just stay and not engage with your pathetic years-spanning campaign against me.

Mod: Don't need to replace me.

oh.

What a rollercoaster

[Vecna]

Everybody who scumreads me:
Albert B. Rampage
Maxous
Nero Cain
Sondam
Vecna

Am I missing someone?

Suspicion =/= scumread.

[Vecna]

Vecna are you going to just shade everywhere else?

What is the obsession where everything gets called shading this game?

Im reading what people are saying, and if I think theres scum motivation behind it I call it out.

Yes im trying to review everything thats happening, and im noting it so I can later find it back in my Iso to remind me of things I noted.

Theres gonna be too many posts for me to remember everything so this is a methodical approach to remember my feelings later on.

[Vecna]

VOTE: beeboy

Guys this is a good point to cite in the "Yuri Spiffeh connection case"

I just made the beeboy wagon viable again in an effort to save my scumbuddy Yuri

Go nuts

Can you please answer my question on page 125?

[Vecna]

{A+N}
{DEO, Elbirn, PV}
{Vecna, LUV}
{Drixx, Spiff}
{Creature, Nero}
{ABR, davesaz, ssbm} <-- null line
{Caesar, Sondam, Leonshade}
{Notice}
{Maxous}
{Beeboy}
{Yuri}

Excellent, I think id only swap around 3 of those people, and maybe rearrange the top slightly.

Glad to see we continue being of very similair mind.

[Vecna]

Yes I think Alisea probably has decent input about me.

You think this isn't Alisae?
And tbh I could be just getting paranoid over your slot.

VOTE: beeboy

Guys this is a good point to cite in the "Yuri Spiffeh connection case"

I just made the beeboy wagon viable again in an effort to save my scumbuddy Yuri

Go nuts

OMGAWD GUYZ HE'S TRYING TO DERAIL THE BEEBOY WAGON HE MUST BE SCUM WITH YURI
-Nebby

I think you indeed tend to get paranoid over me, its fine.

As for the Spiffeh point, I actually think that works in his favour since he has a point (especially with the post he just made above the post from yours im quoting here)

[Vecna]

VOTE: beeboy

Guys this is a good point to cite in the "Yuri Spiffeh connection case"

I just made the beeboy wagon viable again in an effort to save my scumbuddy Yuri

Go nuts

This is not going to work. I don't want beeboy. I don't feel good about a scum flip there.

You don't want Yuri, vote to take out Caesar or useless slots.

I disagree with this, Yuri or Beeboy will give a lot more information for a lynch and I think its about time to hammer someone.

[Vecna]

{A+N}
{DEO, Elbirn, PV}
{Vecna, LUV}
{Drixx, Spiff}
{Creature, Nero}
{ABR, davesaz, ssbm} <-- null line
{Caesar, Sondam, Leonshade}
{Notice}
{Maxous}
{Beeboy}
{Yuri}

Why is PV so high?

Because I townread him.

I don't see scum motivation, even if he and Titus are butting heads.

Why are you town reading him so strongly?

Since me and frogger are vibing quite well id say im just going to answer this as well.

PV has the exact same observations and questions that are in my mind, and he's always there right on time to ask them. A very town-oriented mindset that id think is very hard to fake.

[Vecna]

I see all these "null reads" on Kyouko.
But there's not enough information to read him!
Complete rubbish.
these "null reads" are first on my list for scum buddies.

Hoho, opinionated tiger all of a sudden eh.

Good.

I like it.

[Vecna]

You know why LUV suspects you? You are putting your own opinion above your townreads rather than picking a mutual read.

You were in The Thing, Titus.

Welcome to my town game. This shouldn't be a surprise to you.

And either way, I resent that. I listened to the Yuri case and agreed with some of the points. I understand the suspicion there. But Yuri's recent posts come across as pretty town to me and beeboy has always been my preference so I'm voting there instead.

Don't try and guilt trip me because I don't have the utmost faith in my town reads. I never do. I don't care if that makes me a selfish player, it's just how I am.

And like that, poof, my worries about your slot are gone.

Still want you to answer my question if you havent in the meanwhile though.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Beeboy

Spiffeh is making a lot of sense

Im of a mind to sheep this as well, unless something changes my mind in the 6 pages to come.

[Vecna]

Because after expressing multiple scum reads and basically having the post amount to "fuck it I'll do anything" is just really weird to me. Like in the current state of the game I just don't understand why you would ever consider something like that unless you were scum seeking survivability especially when the A&N Lynch was actually really viable (and a scum read of Yuri's) starting some random af vanity wagon just seems so out of place for a town mind set.

This doesn't make sense to me.

If Yuri was just looking to survive then I find it way more likely that they would keep their vote on the viable A&N wagon instead of vanity wagoning Vecna. Yuri looks like town who doesn't want his scum reads getting away after he's mislynched.

This by itself isnt good enough reason though, since this is mafia wifom trick 101.

He did say some other things that made me somewhat question my certainty.

Guess I have a few more pages to consider things.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Spiffeh

Damn boy, leave the endgame things till the endgame.

Waste of effort

[Vecna]

Town: Fro99er, Maxou, PV, Spiffeh
Scum: beeboy, Creature, LUV

Double Eeew

Explain the read on Maxous and LUV

[Vecna]

dave also town

I have a suspicion about this one, but I kinda wanna hear your reasons about this one as well.

[Vecna]

Everybody who scumreads me:
Albert B. Rampage
Maxous
Nero Cain
Sondam
Vecna

Am I missing someone?

That's a pretty town list tbh

Only because im on it lol

The rest is on or below the NULL-line

[Vecna]

Not doing Caesar either.

My picks today are ABR, Leon, Notice, Spiffy, and Yuri.

Add ceasar back (allthough theres better options imo), add Beeboy, remove Spiffeh

Then, youre on point.

[Vecna]

{A+N}
{DEO, Elbirn, PV}
{Vecna, LUV}
{Drixx, Spiff}
{Creature, Nero}
{ABR, davesaz, ssbm} <-- null line
{Caesar, Sondam, Leonshade}
{Notice}
{Maxous}
{Beeboy}
{Yuri}

Excellent, I think id only swap around 3 of those people, and maybe rearrange the top slightly.

Glad to see we continue being of very similair mind.

I'm not

I want

ABR, Casear, Sondam, Yuri, Nero, and Maxous all below null. Rest I have as above null.

Slightly too optimistic imo. Were not close enough allready to win on day 4/5/6

[Vecna]

Creature, LUV, Beeboy

Pick 1.

And you think youre suddenly in charge.......for what reason exactly?

[Vecna]

Can we lynch real scum Luv or are we gonna keep up this circle jerk we have going on and just lynch town Yuri the fact the bee wagon is hard semi worries me aswell makes me think a lot of scum aren't getting votes
~maria

Answer my questions or ill steal your mango juice

[Vecna]

Can we lynch real scum Luv or are we gonna keep up this circle jerk we have going on and just lynch town Yuri the fact the bee wagon is hard semi worries me aswell makes me think a lot of scum aren't getting votes
~maria

LUV is not an option today.

There literally isn't enough support in the game for it to happen right now.

He said he softed a PR in a PRless game.

Yes, he totally -must- be scum for that.



And im not even allowed to shade people frogger?

Because the urge.....oh god the urge

[Vecna]

Anyone who sr's Notice after what there posting needs a huge reality check cause that slot is obv af town also I don't think people really care for that townblock if people are trying to shade a townblock out of frears that's lol
~Maria

Agreed

NMS's recent posts are extremely town

Explain

+ my question on page 125

Or you'll never ever get my vote on beeboy.

Boom

[Vecna]

If luv doesn't flip scum I'ma run outside naked saying I saw satan
~Maria

Explain

Your

Read

because after you were in PYP this should be the easiest townread ever.

[Vecna]

I have a suspicion about this one, but I kinda wanna hear your reasons about this one as well.

I like what I saw from Dave today.

What did you like about it and why did you like it?

[Vecna]

this should have been over 60 pages ago. There's prob scum in the really active posters. There *might* be scum in the "lurkers" but all of this "we need to pressure lurkers!" feels like a distraction.

You havent done shit to solidify people onto a wagon, so how about you stop this and do stuff to get people to lynch someone?

Were you even on the Yuri wagon?

[Vecna]

If Yuri is scum reads:
{DEO, Creature, LUV, Vecna, Frogger, Drixx, Elbrin}
{Notice, PV}
{Ooba, Caesars, Leon}
{Jesus, ABR, Spiffeh}
{Maxous, Kyouko}
{Beeboy, Sondam}
{Yuri}

If Yuri is town:
{Yuri}
{DEO, LUV, Frogger, Drixx, Elbrin, Spiffeh}
{Notice, PV}
{Ooba, Caesars, Leon}
{ABR, Creature, Vecna}
{Sondam, Maxous, Kyouko, Jesus}
{Beeboy}

-Nebby

How does my allignment tumble that hard based on a flip? That makes very little sense to me. can you explain it please?

here's vecna being scared of my townflip for a second time, despite scumreading me

there were other posts that pinged but oh my god you guys posted so much

Im not afraid of your flip at all, I honestly couldnt care less if youre mislynched town.

Im asking why the flip moves me from one of his highest townreads to his biggest scumreads. Doesnt that look weird to you? Or do you think if you were to flip town everyone that voted you is suddenly confirmed scum?

Its fine if he has reasons for it, but I want to -know- those reasons.

...............But apparently everyone is ignoring everything I ask for some reason.

[Vecna]

this should have been over 60 pages ago. There's prob scum in the really active posters. There *might* be scum in the "lurkers" but all of this "we need to pressure lurkers!" feels like a distraction.

Nero, talk to me.

Besides Titus, who are your top three scumreads

Creature, A+N, Vecna

God dammit

Creature is so obviously town now

Hmmm here were in disagreement. Care to explain it?

[Vecna]

Maria Read list:

Albert B. Rampage Spiffeh NoticeMeSenpai

Yuri Nero Cain

The DEO

Maxous PeregrineV Creature

Caesar Wills It ssbm_Kyouko Dave Drixx

beeboy Elbirn

Vecna Akane and Nebby

Fro99er Leonshade

Lil Uzi Vert

Wow.....that is....quite unique

[Vecna]

Can we lynch real scum Luv or are we gonna keep up this circle jerk we have going on and just lynch town Yuri the fact the bee wagon is hard semi worries me aswell makes me think a lot of scum aren't getting votes
~maria

Answer my questions or ill steal your mango juice

NOT THE JUICE ;~: What was the question
~Maria

Id love to know your reasoning on some of the more exotic reads that you have.

Mainly Luv since we both were his teammate in PYP.

Make me see things from your perspective, because in my current state if he's scum he'll win the game by default if he doesnt NK me.

[Vecna]

titus please stop with that. assuming im town and beeboy is town then who the fuck is scum?? beeboy is my best shot. would rather vecna but honestly
and caesar is sort of a lame lurker lynch, uzi's right i doubt it would go anywhere in the end

If Titus is town, she's going to die tonight and then you'll have me to contend with tomorrow.

How about you reset your read on me, and look at the world from that perspective?

Hint; im town, this is better for your chances to win this game.

[Vecna]

Im not afraid of your flip at all, I honestly couldnt care less if youre mislynched town.

Im asking why the flip moves me from one of his highest townreads to his biggest scumreads. Doesnt that look weird to you? Or do you think if you were to flip town everyone that voted you is suddenly confirmed scum?

Its fine if he has reasons for it, but I want to -know- those reasons.

...............But apparently everyone is ignoring everything I ask for some reason.

vec my dude this game is moving so quickly rn im surprised anyone is seeing responses to their shit
also shouldnt u care if im mislynched town bc you dont want to mislynch town

it doesnt look weird to me at all. in fact i was banking on my townflip to get u some fuckin heat among other things
its entirely normal for reads to change dramatically after a flip wtf is this

Except >VECNA< was the only read changing after the flip. So I think my question is very much justified wouldnt you say?

And youre banking on the wrong stuff happening, but ofcourse youre not going to care about me telling you this.

[Vecna]

This game is pissing me off so bad

I just want to lynch fucking scum.

Spiffeh talk to me about Max

Yuri talk to me about Max

Nero talk to me about Max

ABR talk to me about max

I think we need to lynch Beeboy to sort ABR and move spiffeh to confirmed-town status.

[Vecna]

ok back to lurking.Lynch whomever you guys want. Though (just in case I die) if whomever gets lynched flips town you should totes consider lynching those that were on Yuri and then switched.

Or you could help me lynch Caesar and punish ABR for derailing the Yuri wagon with his refusal to vote it when he came in.

The better punishment then would be to lynch ABR?

[Vecna]

Im super annoyed that noone is answering any questions.

Ive just spent fucking 4 hours reading up, only to have 90% of my posts ignored.

[Vecna]

There hasn't been even one game where Titus has not taken an antagonistic stance against me in any game we've had, which is many. She's out for herself. Her entire purpose in every game is to eliminate me because she hates me.

Noone cares about this. Meanwhile, what she's saying about you disrupting the flow is 100% accurrate.

[Vecna]

town pariah yesterday and everyones rushing to make sure theyre townreading me today lmao @ this game

Pressure makes some soar, while others crash and burn.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Beeboy

[Vecna]

Vecna talk to me about Beeboy.
-Nebby

I want to see its flip.

Scum flip; perfect, servers to sort a lot of allignments
Town flip; Goodbye ABR.

Thats pretty much how im seeing things. I dont care too much whether we lynch scum or town today. I want it to be informative.

Beeboy and Yuri both wouldve given us that. Beeboy now gives me more sorting power.

[Vecna]

Yeah, I know i havent been on this site for too long but.....never seen a thread expanding like its trying to mimic the fucking big bang or something.

[Vecna]

Vecna talk to me about Beeboy.
-Nebby

I want to see its flip.

Scum flip; perfect, servers to sort a lot of allignments
Town flip; Goodbye ABR.

Thats pretty much how im seeing things. I dont care too much whether we lynch scum or town today. I want it to be informative.

Beeboy and Yuri both wouldve given us that. Beeboy now gives me more sorting power.

And that's where we disagree. We can hit scum and informative in Caesar.

A scum flip there damns ABR no?

But a town flip gives us very little.

[Vecna]

And trust me, with the way things are shaping up I could probably do with a bunch of people less that wanna lynch me.......but whatever, let em bring it.

[Vecna]

Titus, I wanna get a lock on whether we can trust Spiffeh.

im not so sure as others.

he's been evasive. I wanna see if he's right.

I think beeboy is better for the town-block. And better to let us know if its membership is exclusive enough.

[Vecna]

I answered your questions Vecna

As one of the few people.

I dont want you to scumread me maria. stop it. You can have your mango juice back if you stop it.

[Vecna]

Titus you have a short memory. Every game where we are town you are convinced I'm scum and then I'm town. Nobody can ignore the facts like you can, it's a special skill of yours.

Stop this or ill lend titus every support she wants to lynch your ass.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Albert B Rampage

Gee turns out you were right, a Beeboy voter that unvoted again.

Shocker

[Vecna]

Maria, LUV, Math look at what ABR is doing.

It is a 100% replica of what I did in PYP.

Manipulative, distortive, scum.

[Vecna]

FLASHWAGON ALBERT B RAMMSTEIN

[Vecna]

Just read everything since his reappearrance.

Titus is right, he's trying to drive a wedge between town. and he's succeeding.

[Vecna]

FLASHWAGON ALBERT B RAMMSTEIN

[Vecna]

Titus you have a short memory. Every game where we are town you are convinced I'm scum and then I'm town. Nobody can ignore the facts like you can, it's a special skill of yours.

Stop this or ill lend titus every support she wants to lynch your ass.

Look at this tough guy over here. I don't bargain with the likes of you. You can come begging for me to stop calling out Titus on her insanity all you want, see what it will change.

Case in point.

[Vecna]

Now where are all these white knights that have been bitching at me for shading all day?

What happened to all the townreads on titus?

What happened to everyone that has attacked me the last 150 pages at every single opportunity for shading someone?

What I did was nothing compared to this.

ABR = SCUM

[Vecna]

Titus you have a short memory. Every game where we are town you are convinced I'm scum and then I'm town. Nobody can ignore the facts like you can, it's a special skill of yours.

Stop this or ill lend titus every support she wants to lynch your ass.

Look at this tough guy over here. I don't bargain with the likes of you. You can come begging for me to stop calling out Titus on her insanity all you want, see what it will change.

See how quickly his tone shifted.

From friendly uncaring neighbour lurker that claims to never have strong opinions day1, to hyperactive wagonpusher, to edgy scumlord after being called out, in a matter of hours.

[Vecna]

Actually.
Jesus fucking crist.
What the fuck am I doing...
This town went fucking crazy and nuts and not focused on Yuri once ABR started doing things...
Timing is kinda conveniant actually.
-Nebby

BINGO

FLASHWAGON ALBERT B SCUMLORD

[Vecna]

Titus, the foundation is in place. Now hammer Beeboy to see what theyre made off

VOTE: Beeboy

LET THE DIE BE CAST

[Vecna]

The doubt has been cast.

This wagon will either confirm it or clear them.

Win or loose, we still win.

[Vecna]

It's dye, dummy.

its actually dice, if youre gonna be a grammarcow / spelling-bee-queen, do it properly.

[Vecna]

It's dye, dummy.

I take this back.

I've been wrong all my life until I googled this. Thank you Vecna.

[Vecna]

HAMMER BEEBOY

Never a boring game with vecna around.

[Vecna]

cmon beeboy is a good wagon

sondam beeboy's wagon has no where near the total agreement mine did, i get ur concerns but i dont think the situations are the same at all

pedit: vecna wtf who are u

Hi im vecna, nice to make your acquaintance.

[Vecna]

HAMMER BEEBOY

Never a boring game with vecna around.

How the fuck can you willingly lynch town knowing ABR and Caesar are scumfucks?

I dont know anything.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Vecna

Frogger....trust me on this.

[Vecna]

HAMMER BEEBOY

Never a boring game with vecna around.

How the fuck can you willingly lynch town knowing ABR and Caesar are scumfucks?

I dont know anything.

Oh come on don't play semantics with me.

How the fuck can you willingly lynch probable town knowing ABR and Caesar are probably scumfucks?

Sometimes you need to plant a seed before you can grow a bunch of flowers titus.

[Vecna]

No Vecna is fucking scum

In case you didnt get it yet, I honestly honestly

Think ABR is scum here.

If you'll join me in wagoning them; great.

If not, ill do it this way. -hopefully- we get a scum here, but more likely this is the outcome ABR wants.

He allready sees what im doing.

He's allready started to doubtcast me.

Open your eyes frogger. Open your eyes.

this is the only way I can open people their eyes.

[Vecna]

No joke though, Vecna's turnaround is incredibly fishy. He looks like he's playing both sides and trying to end the day on any lynch. I accept your 4th Frogger.

If people flashwagon you, trust me that ill end on you.

Youre scum.

It is not my life's mission to get you to hang.

CREATIVE DEATH-TUNNEL ENGAGED

[Vecna]

it is now*

[Vecna]

wtf is even going on anymore.
-Nebby

ABR is scum.

Me and Titus have gone into crusade-mode.

[Vecna]

VECNA HAS ACTIVATED HIS GLADIATOR ABILITY ON ALBERT B RAMPAGE

VOTES ON VECNA OR ALBERT B RAMPAGE ARE NOW THE ONLY SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE VOTES.

ANY OTHER VOTE IS VETOED. IT IS SO DECREED BY VECNA.

TAKE YOUR PICK.