mini theme 2229: MBOS 13 schweppes' pulpy potions daya 5

[T3]

I don't know what Schweppes are. Anyway it's close to deadline so can we get plurality on Titus?

Town Flea in Micro 999 tunneled scum Mena and to a lesser extent town Mare when wagoned day 1. Their tone was normal.

[T3]

Scum Flea when pressured in Yggdrasil flipped between fluffing the thread into oblivion and angry quotewalling but there was no tunnel.
Conclusion: Fairy is town for exasperated tone and tunneling me.
UNVOTE:

[T3]

why is fairy voting titus? I thought they were townreading each other?

- lilith

To save themselves.

[T3]

I don’t have anything specific to point to, and I didn’t follow potions 1 super closely, but what I do remember is that retti and datisi were basically townread right away and then coasted on that early townread. which to me feels similar to how they were super active at the beginning of this game, everyone said they townread them, then they kind of disappeared and feels like they’ve stopped solving. like I said, a lot of the recent content has felt like shading our slot.

can people explain why they’ve locktowned gcb?

- lilith

Datisi had an angry reaction to Norwee and got emotional and started tunneling him. A quick metadive shows that scum Datisi almost never shows anger but town Datisi does.

[T3]

We should decide on what to do tonight and get a shot pool

[T3]

Everything within me screams T3 is scum.
They're misleading, twisting and manipulating so many things and are doing everything in their power to set up chain mislims.

-F

Why is this giving me deja vu to ODM

you tell me..

Remind me T3.. What was my alignment in ODM?
And what was my fate in ODM?

-> See my metadive on you and your response to pressure.

[T3]

Scum Flea when pressured in Yggdrasil flipped between fluffing the thread into oblivion and angry quotewalling but there was no tunnel.
Conclusion: Fairy is town for exasperated tone and tunneling me.
UNVOTE:

This didnt answer the question T3.

What was my alignment and what was my fate?
Because it's not what you've been framing it as.

Town, ded day 1.
"deja vu to ODM" meant that I was doubting my read here because you tunneled me that game.

[T3]

Same to t3. Why are you on fairy? Was Titus bussing you earlier??

VOTE: Titus
I'd also be happy with limit.

[T3]

Wait we still need a shot pool and directions on what do tonight.
UNVOTE:

[T3]

What if everyone claims their pain potions and we all shoot in the PoE such that they all die tonight?

[T3]

On average scum will only have 1 Jailkeeper and 1 Doctor between them.

[T3]

On average scum will only have 1 Jailkeeper and 1 Doctor between them.

T3 is literally announcing what his team has.

You cannot be serious
Math says that scum will have 0.6 jailkeepers and 0.9 docs. Rounding up, you get 1.

[T3]

Flea. You have a habit of lockscumming town me

every time

you are wagoned as town.

[T3]

And rounding means they have the exact same chance as anyone else of getting just 1.

Don't round, don't try and work out the maths, because we can't get anything conclusive from it.

And Titus, people are not declaring their pots because we're not giving scum any priority targets.

Bad enough we had to claim.

-Flea

Scum as a group have 0.6 and 0.9 on average.

[T3]

Harmography, I assume.

[T3]

If we all claim whether we have a pain potion or not we can coordinate to shoot in the PoE. We can theoretically kill most of the PoE on night 1 depending on the potion distribution and scum can't counter it.

[T3]

This can also prevent wasting pain potioms on slots that will already die anyways.

[T3]

If we all claim whether we have a pain potion or not we can coordinate to shoot in the PoE. We can theoretically kill most of the PoE on night 1 depending on the potion distribution and scum can't counter it.

stop doing this ty

-D

okay then.

[T3]

Alright, mechwall time:

Spoiler: CASE A: UNLEASHED ACTIONS

First of all, as mentioned earlier, doctor potions are completely irrelevant here. Potions of Harmography are similarly useless. For example, say for the sake of argument that mastina is scum and I am town. Mastina would obviously pain potion me, despite the fact that I'm a fairly townread individual. Further, it is unlikely that we as town get enough coordination to kill a scum player, because any actual scum that is likely to be double pain'd would be just as obvious a target to the scumteam. This case gives us absolutely no utility out of most of our potions and leaves us with only the JK potions really mattering. And even then, it's unlikely they matter much.

Spoiler: CASE B: No Pain Usage

Arguably, this is the best use of potions. JK and Harmography potions are both stronger, by virtue of the fact that any Harmography result is necessarily on scum, which is a straight up guilty as opposed to functionally unusable WIFOM nonsense. JK potions don't interfere with Harmography potions that target the same person, so they're still viable.

Spoiler: CASE C: Massclaim and Leash

Frankly, we don't have the time to accomplish this. It's possible it would outright break the setup, but that's reliant on RNG and I'm not going to be able to spend the time to untangle the route in any case.

Spoiler: CASE D: Limited Pool for Pain

First of all, a small pain pool gives us an additional chance that the pain usage actually kills the intended targets instead of just leaving people with 1 HP to muddy the waters on who we should be eliminating. Second, this gives us a use of harmography that is protown in nature.

Pain potions on slots that are already facing elimination from scum are a waste of scum's resources (also known as a good thing for town). In the case that deaths happen outside of the pain pool, any player who used pain INSIDE the pool becomes vastly more likely to be town. Further, if there are any harmography potions used outside of the pool of pain that catch the use of pain, that's still a guilty.

Ideally the pool should be either 1 or two players. 1 would make finding innocents more likely as any Harmography usage in that pool becomes highly indicative. 2 provides slightly more in the way of additional eliminations as it would mean scum would have to devote multiple JKs to stop the potential vigshots. And to be clear, it would in fact be in scum's best interest to stop a vig shot on town in the pain pools because that person would be a likely miselimination.

The thing Titus is dancing around: Scum should not actually kill a player tonight. Arsonist >> Goon. It's a pretty trivial understanding, but putting their shots into three separate players is better for scum because it denies us information right now and doesn't negatively impact their turns to win. Obviously, this may be different because of the composition of the scum team and whether a specific player is scary, but what this REALLY means is that scum is likely to spread out their kills tonight, regardless of what we do. We want to use harmography specifically tonight because of this.

My suggestion, for N1 we use the No Pain option and for N2 we use the Limited pool option. This gives us more information when targeting the vig shot (possibly even a guilty) and gives us optimal usage of the harmography potions on the night when it's most likely for them to be useful. If scum goes wide on kills, they increase the chances we hit one of them with a watcher result. If scum goes for a kill, they risk being caught as MULTIPLE BAD ACTORS by one investigation. The holstering of the vigs also gives us more potential harmography results tonight as a scummy player with a harmography potion still has a chance at getting a result before they die.

Note: in absolutely none of these cases should anyone claim whether they are using harmography, jk, doc or pain before the night, as that gives a road map to let scum try to fuck us with JKs. Additionally, in the limited pain pool option, each individual should make their own call on who to harmography, as both catching scum outside of the harmography pool and confirming town inside of it are powerful tools.

This is what he said.
Why this is wrong? Scum very likely will have exactly 2 potions that can mess with us.

[T3]

If we all claim whether we have a pain potion or not we can coordinate to shoot in the PoE. We can theoretically kill most of the PoE on night 1 depending on the potion distribution and scum can't counter it.

Literally scumclaiming at this point trying to see who they need to poison.

-F

my preferred shoot pool is t3/dwlee if green!titus and idfk if red!titus. I guess RCE is fine. I don’t want to be in any pool but I guess I’d rather be shot than eliminated

- lilith

jfc
I have 200 posts, you have no read on me. Then when i suggest a mech strategy you scumread me.

[T3]

Alright, mechwall time:

Spoiler: CASE A: UNLEASHED ACTIONS

First of all, as mentioned earlier, doctor potions are completely irrelevant here. Potions of Harmography are similarly useless. For example, say for the sake of argument that mastina is scum and I am town. Mastina would obviously pain potion me, despite the fact that I'm a fairly townread individual. Further, it is unlikely that we as town get enough coordination to kill a scum player, because any actual scum that is likely to be double pain'd would be just as obvious a target to the scumteam. This case gives us absolutely no utility out of most of our potions and leaves us with only the JK potions really mattering. And even then, it's unlikely they matter much.

Spoiler: CASE B: No Pain Usage

Arguably, this is the best use of potions. JK and Harmography potions are both stronger, by virtue of the fact that any Harmography result is necessarily on scum, which is a straight up guilty as opposed to functionally unusable WIFOM nonsense. JK potions don't interfere with Harmography potions that target the same person, so they're still viable.

Spoiler: CASE C: Massclaim and Leash

Frankly, we don't have the time to accomplish this. It's possible it would outright break the setup, but that's reliant on RNG and I'm not going to be able to spend the time to untangle the route in any case.

Spoiler: CASE D: Limited Pool for Pain

First of all, a small pain pool gives us an additional chance that the pain usage actually kills the intended targets instead of just leaving people with 1 HP to muddy the waters on who we should be eliminating. Second, this gives us a use of harmography that is protown in nature.

Pain potions on slots that are already facing elimination from scum are a waste of scum's resources (also known as a good thing for town). In the case that deaths happen outside of the pain pool, any player who used pain INSIDE the pool becomes vastly more likely to be town. Further, if there are any harmography potions used outside of the pool of pain that catch the use of pain, that's still a guilty.

Ideally the pool should be either 1 or two players. 1 would make finding innocents more likely as any Harmography usage in that pool becomes highly indicative. 2 provides slightly more in the way of additional eliminations as it would mean scum would have to devote multiple JKs to stop the potential vigshots. And to be clear, it would in fact be in scum's best interest to stop a vig shot on town in the pain pools because that person would be a likely miselimination.

The thing Titus is dancing around: Scum should not actually kill a player tonight. Arsonist >> Goon. It's a pretty trivial understanding, but putting their shots into three separate players is better for scum because it denies us information right now and doesn't negatively impact their turns to win. Obviously, this may be different because of the composition of the scum team and whether a specific player is scary, but what this REALLY means is that scum is likely to spread out their kills tonight, regardless of what we do. We want to use harmography specifically tonight because of this.

My suggestion, for N1 we use the No Pain option and for N2 we use the Limited pool option. This gives us more information when targeting the vig shot (possibly even a guilty) and gives us optimal usage of the harmography potions on the night when it's most likely for them to be useful. If scum goes wide on kills, they increase the chances we hit one of them with a watcher result. If scum goes for a kill, they risk being caught as MULTIPLE BAD ACTORS by one investigation. The holstering of the vigs also gives us more potential harmography results tonight as a scummy player with a harmography potion still has a chance at getting a result before they die.

Note: in absolutely none of these cases should anyone claim whether they are using harmography, jk, doc or pain before the night, as that gives a road map to let scum try to fuck us with JKs. Additionally, in the limited pain pool option, each individual should make their own call on who to harmography, as both catching scum outside of the harmography pool and confirming town inside of it are powerful tools.

bingle recommended no shooting

HOW IS THIS A SCUMCLAIM
literally
i have shown you that it's very likely scum can't counter our directed shots

[T3]

I'm locked and loaded

q+ keeps screwing this up.

[T3]

So you're going to let a wallpost by Bingle using flawed math completely dictate the way you play

[T3]

ugh
Flea. You called me voting you in ODM a scumclaim. Now you're calling this a scumclaim.
I'm getting really annoyed at everyone's flat refusal to hear me out.

[T3]

Note: in absolutely none of these cases should anyone claim whether they are using harmography, jk, doc or pain before the night, as that gives a road map to let scum try to fuck us with JKs.

@t3: bingle EXPLICITLY SAID don’t declare targets.

- lilith

YES
but scum CAN'T fuck with us with jks because they will only have 1 or 0

[T3]

If we all claim whether we have a pain potion or not we can coordinate to shoot in the PoE. We can theoretically kill most of the PoE on night 1 depending on the potion distribution and scum can't counter it.

Literally scumclaiming at this point trying to see who they need to poison.

-F

my preferred shoot pool is t3/dwlee if green!titus and idfk if red!titus. I guess RCE is fine. I don’t want to be in any pool but I guess I’d rather be shot than eliminated

- lilith

jfc
I have 200 posts, you have no read on me. Then when i suggest a mech strategy you scumread me.

don’t suggest bad strategies then

you’re in my shoot pool if titus is green for what I think are fairly obvious reasons that have nothing to do with your strategies.

pedit: if scum know who is using pain potions then they know how to plan the use of their potions, like who to avoid shooting because of who will be using harmography potions and who those potions are likely to be used on. that’s the whole fucking point of the leash pool.

ppedit: you do know who bingle is, right?

- lilith

Okay. That makes more sense.

[T3]

I suggested a strategy was and instascumread and shot down because "bingle said no"

[T3]

So you can imagine my exasperation.

[T3]

T3 feeling very town here though. Would not vig.

Then just eliminate me then. If we are going to lose, I'd rather work.

You're already dead.

[T3]

If Titus is town then that doesn't give me any associatives.

[T3]

100% loss rate? Well GG. Just end the game then Schadd. Clearly scum won. It’s pointless to move on.

I agree but the town should try. The odds are impossible though, particularly when no one SRs you.

Yes I completely agree. Norwee will deepwolf and we win!

[T3]

100% loss rate? Well GG. Just end the game then Schadd. Clearly scum won. It’s pointless to move on.

I agree but the town should try. The odds are impossible though, particularly when no one SRs you.

Yes I completely agree. Norwee will deepwolf and we win!

Now you're just taunting me.

If you're town then maybe next time don't say I'm locktowning Dwlee when I'm not?

[T3]

Why Titus.
Just why.

[T3]

Flea if you pained me last night that would be very painful.

[T3]

Retti is vaguely town sounding meanwhile Datisi oozes town.

[T3]

We massclaim who, if anyone, we attacked, right?

-S

I think so.

[T3]

I attacked you.

[T3]

Why? lillith somehow got

~no~

read on me, not even vague vibes off my 200 posts and then once I suggest something I am immediately scumread by lillith because 'Binlge said it's bad'

[T3]

I pained limit so limming them would be a waste.
That leaves RCE, Bingle, and Dwlee.
Assuming limit scum there's probably 2 scum in there, if not then we look at Emp.

[T3]

We pained bingle

Assumed mastina would as well.

I was thinking to pain Bingle or limit but decided on limit for the same reason - I thought GCB would shoot limit.

[T3]

Like, we went from this:

Fairy Circle (5):

NorwegianboyEE, Dwlee99, RCEnigma, mastina, T3

T3 (2):

The Emperor, Fairy Circle

Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

The Limit Does Not Exist (1):

Green Cap Boys

RCEnigma (1):

Bingle

not voting (1):

The Limit Does Not Exist

Zero votes on Titus, to this:

Titus (4):

Green Cap Boys, T3, Dwlee99, Fairy Circle

Titus (4):

Dwlee99, Fairy Circle, NorwegianboyEE, Green Cap Boys

That's the exact strategy scum Titus used in Situation Room while pushing me.

You owe me for voting Titus.

VOTE: Titus

You owe me for voting Titus not to mention your moronic scumread on me.

VOTE: Titus

You ESPECIALLY owe me for voting Titus and absolute arrogance in that read.

VOTE: titus

If you ever want me to CONSIDER your slot as town you fucking owe me a Bingle vote here.

VOTE: Titus
Don’t really care if they town or scum. They just need to go.
Feels like a decent chance they scum though.

And you ESPECIALLY owe me above all because you knew that I said Titus was town here and didn't want that elimination.

We're eliminating Bingle today.

In my heart, Titus will always be scum.

[T3]

Titus wasn't doing moonlogic. She lied and then stuck with it because she didn't want to admit she was wrong. That's honestly the only reason I could see town Titus doing this.

[T3]

Point is, she dug her own grave.

[T3]

Mastina, Titus really deserved a lim there and I'm confused on how anyone got a townread out of what she was saying.

Same. mastina is still town though.

[T3]

How does that leave that list exactly?

What do you mean?

[T3]

but if you wanna go that route, fine. you feel flat as fuck and for someone who's supposed to be very easy to obvtown, it's a horrible look. i don't care you had the other game where you were in f3. i don't care about who has more or fewer posts, when most of your posts were either screaming at mastina, throwing a fit at anyone looking at you for acting scummy, or s_s throwing out unmemorable comments. the way that you're latching onto things like this and spewing ate while not actually offering content to solve looks bad.

but you're free to actually offer some content and lay out how this is apparently not all that different from us last game.

Btw this is :goodposting: from Datisi since TLDNE is very very highly likely scum, too.

I just think Bingle's scum stronger, and that TLDNE is a Bingle scumbuddy.

How does that leave that list exactly?

What do you mean?

I pained limit so limming them would be a waste.
That leaves RCE, Bingle, and Dwlee.
Assuming limit scum there's probably 2 scum in there, if not then we look at Emp.

The RCE, Bingle, Me list.

I have a PoE, that is the list.

[T3]

mastinatown emptown norweetown fairytown capstown
Emp town is the one I'm least sure about there.

[T3]

Emp is the rare "I actually townread them by play and tond not by meta" which as I have learned with Norwee in ODM I can be very wrong about.

[T3]

*tone

[T3]

mastina is town by overall meta, Fairy is town for meta in response the pressure from Flea, Norwee is town for meta in response to pressure, GCB is town for Datisi's emotion in terms of meta.
That's a lot of the word meta.

[T3]

What's my meta t3

I don't know

[T3]

cringe hyperwallposts

[T3]

I don't think Lilith's RL stuff is any more scum indicative than Mom's, FWIW, but I think that Fleas behavior in Mom's absence is way scummier than S_S's. I have limit as pretty hardline null.

Still townreading all of Norwee/mastina/Emp/GCB, probably in that order of surety. Not really interested in reevaluating there today.

I was wrong on how close I came to elimination today, (for some reason that I can't explain but that is probably easily guessed I was thinking micro), but it IS still potential ELO.

I'm willing to admit there's a chance I'm confbiasing my reads on T3 and Dwlee, but I haven't seen anything that really makes me want to reconsider if someone actually has an argument.

To anyone TR-ing FC: Why?

Meta.

[T3]

Not paining actually bad, town has extra kill power and should use it to shoot in poe like Yggdrasil.

So I watched t3 last night and no one harmed them. I picked t3 because I thought two things: if t3 is scum, we could get clears cause I thought town might dump shots there. And if t3 is town, scum might attack him because they'd suspect he is unlikely to be watched. That no one attacked him makes me think now that t3 might be evil.

Also no kill could be because a doctor or jailkeep, not necessarily going wide, scum can only do three damage each night.

I don't think the Titus wagon was scum-driven, Dwlee and NorwegianBoy's exasperation there seemed pretty genuine. Other two votes were the Cap Boys who just overall seem town and Faircy Circle, who I'm unsure on and will have to check how they ended up on Titus

Also, I agree with Dwlee saying Bingle's no potion claim very early is likely to come from town. It's basically the equivalent of claiming VT start of day 1, and those are very often town because it gives you less room to work with, and less incentive for town to keep you around.

Also, Bingle's a very mech driven player, and I doubt he as scum decides to claim no potions knowing the disadvantage he's giving himself later eith inability to claim JK or haema or whatever.

And yeah, there is a minimal chance he's scum who actually just got no potions, but it's very unlikely given the extra odds scum have for potions, and still a bad strat imo.

On average scum will have 4 pain potions between them. I would think scum try to make the best use of their potions by targetting scummy town.

[T3]

Flea's reaction to pressure is very similar to their previous towngames where they get exasperated and start tunneling me.

[T3]

Does Norwee's underage waifu think RCE is actualy scummy or just PoE?

[T3]

For now on I will refer to you as "Norwee's underage waifu"

[T3]

I'm referring to Norwee's avatar ,-,

[T3]

You're nerdy white teen with glasses
but I'm not going to do that.

[T3]

My avatar is obvscum.

[T3]

I may have ben trying to set up for that joke.

[T3]

hnggh typos

[T3]

Scum will have 3, 4, or 5 pain potions between them [very likely]. This is about 2 kills by themselves. There are a lot of harmos floating around so I would think scum would try to stack on town's pain potions by targetting slightly scummy town.

[T3]

Scum will have 3, 4, or 5 pain potions between them [very likely]. This is about 2 kills by themselves. There are a lot of harmos floating around so I would think scum would try to stack on town's pain potions by targetting slightly scummy town.

Which is why I'm surprised you weren't attacked last night.

I'm slightly scummy?
Okay that's fair. I don't know how to defend against that because your logic is completely sound.

[T3]

Does Norwee's underage waifu think RCE is actualy scummy or just PoE?

What d’you think?

No.

[T3]

I feel like T3/RCE could be scum but the third one is hard. Both Fairy Circle, Limit and Bingle feel kinda townie in parts. But it also seems unlikely the last scum would be elsewhere.

You have the same PoE as me, but +me.

[T3]

Does Norwee's underage waifu think RCE is actualy scummy or just PoE?

What d’you think?

No.

No to what?

RCE is leantown. I don't find him scummy.

[T3]

Does Norwee's underage waifu think RCE is actualy scummy or just PoE?

What d’you think?

No.

No to what?

RCE is leantown. I don't find him scummy.

Do you have any specific reason to believe that or is it just what you think?

He sounds towny and I scumread limit and Bingle much more.

[T3]

Yes

[T3]

T3, why did you suggest the most time and effort intensive NA plan with less than 24 hours in the day?

I randomly thought of it.

[T3]

FWIW, your plan was 100% a decent one, and it was one I addressed in my wall (which is why I'm bringing this up, I thought it was kinda strange that Datisi argued against it on the grounds I said it was a bad idea when in reality I argued against it because I don't think it was viable to pull off on D1 and rather is a better D3 plan when potions were running low all around and we would presumably get the most return for targeted shots). I don't think GCB calling you out on parroting a plan I'd dismissed as too complicated to organize as "Bingle said no" is ever S/S.

This post sounds really towny but I don't know why.

[T3]

OKAY RCE metadive time.

[T3]

Town RCE jokes around a lot and his posts have less content overall than his scumgame. Town him also engages with the discussion mkore than scum him. That was all I got, he has too few recent games.

[T3]

You're trying to read Mom thinking faer me. Soooo no. I can't work it out. Because your basis is wrong.

I assure you, I'm not. When Mom is around I hope you can ask her what she thinks since this is the sort of thing that I don't think you can figure out on your own and which she might not be able to figure out on her own but between the two of you you might be able to piece together what I've been getting at.

So I watched t3 last night and no one harmed them. I picked t3 because I thought two things: if t3 is scum, we could get clears cause I thought town might dump shots there. And if t3 is town, scum might attack him because they'd suspect he is unlikely to be watched. That no one attacked him makes me think now that t3 might be evil.

For the record, I don't currently think Dwlee is scum but this is perfectly plausible of Dwlee being scum as it is exactly the sort of action he would do as scum knowing he would do it as town.

But that's not something to tackle today. Today I've got a limited vote pool and Dwlee is outside of that today.

Or... Dwlee is town doong that action?

[T3]

I've got some time for personal reasons and that may make it's way into the thread but I'm on one so bear with me.

I'll read up the other pages in a bit.

Running me up next would be a compound dumb move considering the dumb elim on Titus yesterday. Norwee/dwlee/ T3 can argue till you're blue in the face but the push on Titus was ONLY based on OMGUS. Not a single one of the three pushed suspicion on Titus until the 3 were brought up in Titus' solve. On top of that the 4th vote to secure the elim on Titus was FC who was townreading Titus.... All the way to an elim. Who needs enemies right?

The backwards casing on Titus being confrontational or in the case of T3 ( That Titus case on them was unbelievable and not based on logic but they were scum because they weren't using "moonlogic") is bullshit and to push me for not buying into it yesterday, also bullshit.

I'm no mechanical player or master manipulator or anything but I understand people (mostly).FL can attest to this when it took me all of like 2 games to nail his meta and force him to switch his entire style. I think my first game with Titus was Magical girl upick (norwee might have been there idk) but my first interaction with Titus was confrontational and it took me a bit of prodding to understand that Titus as a PERSON is very steadfast in their beliefs (whether the logic holds up or not and it's probably why she gets tagged with the moonlogic label all the time). So she's vocal about it and you have to PROVE her wrong not just tell her and figure it goes away.

This line from Titus was completely town, in like the first 2-300 posts she threw down like 4 votes (not piling on wagons) to see who jumped on what and where. Titus was fishing for information to draw some conclusions from and I didn't see it until diving into her iso (which is where I committed to Town!Titus which strongly resembled Titus from magical girl upick).

That was a lot to explain that I can identify a town Titus when I see it but whatever. Why didn't I try to stop Titus elim? The most likely scum in the pool of Titus opposers is dwlee and the resistance was strong enough that Titus and I couldn't get an elim there. T3 and Norwee both plugged their ears so there isn't much to sway the scale there and I realized that when you norwee were purposely antagonizing Titus instead of engaging with her in good faith. You thought she was scum so why interact in good faith, sure whatever. I don't remember you ever playing like that though so my toxic comment stands as is.

Town RCE doesn't post this.
VOTE: rce

[T3]

UNVOTE: rce
Fair.

[T3]

Is it just me or does this game feel really dead and tired.

Yeah. :[

[T3]

If there's scum in the block it's probably Emperor?

[T3]

Empereror did some real really towny posts earlier and then did a full stop halfway through day 1 so he hasn't exactly been pushing people.

[T3]

If there's scum in the block it's probably Emperor?

Idk if this was responding to my post but when I say block I mean voting block (slots voting together) and not townblock.

Oh.

[T3]

If there's scum in the voting block it's probably Fairy Circle.

By the philosophy of metagood, it is not you or Fairy Circle. So if there is scum it's Dwlee.

[T3]

Empereror did some real really towny posts earlier and then did a full stop halfway through day 1 so he hasn't exactly been pushing people.

same goes for gcb, no?

it feels wrong that everyone’s poe was basically the same at the beginning of the day. I was mostly just being paranoid/frustrated with being scumread earlier but I actually think one of the “universal” townreads could be scum now. it does feel a bit like they got their townreads and the game is going in a way that they’re happy with so they just dipped.

- lilith

Yes, but I have other reasons to townread GCB.

[T3]

Mm 1800 - 1802 from T3 looks pretty towny.

I'm not sure tells work on T3 though.

-S

Why would tells not work on me?

[T3]

Why would tells not work on me?

You play pretty differently from most people.

-S

FTR I think tells are bad but that makes sense.

[T3]

GAMESTATE/INETERACTION/WHATEVER READS:
Let's assume mastina is town. I'm very sure she is by meta points I went over earlier.

IF BINGLE IS TOWN:

mastina's tvt tunnel has become a focal point of the game and a major topic of discussion almost the entire game. This has been described as inhibiting other's ability to solve. Scum are very happy with this gamestate [in a vacuum] and will try to keep both mastina and Bingle alive. This would mean that scum will try and divert the wagons onto a town in the PoE. Norwee and Dwlee have been the main drivers, with Fairy as a sheep. There also isn't really a case against RCE other than PoE. Norwee and Fairy are town. That leaves Dwlee as scum and RCE as town if Bingle is town.
I THINK.
I hate doing reads like this but nothing is really happening.

[T3]

VOTE: bingle
Fuck it, whatever.

[T3]

Logging on to this game today i have like no idea what i'm doing to be completely honest so i really need some more hard info from an flip anywhere.
Who is the elusive scum? Dunno really. And in a game with 3 that is very worrying. Everyone sounds sorta town in one way or another.
So what to do, sheep Mastina?
Maybe, why not.
Bingle feels town to me personally but what else is the alternative? I feel like Mastina would make really good analysis's normally but all they talk about is "flip Bingle or Limit" and raging at the elimination yesterday so that just makes me want to flip either Bingle or Limit.

"The elusive scum is probably Emp....", he whispers.

[T3]

Okay then let's vote emperor or do something. Game is stalled and I don't agree with your premise that mastina has to be town here

Okay
So theoretically even though this is exactly mastina's town meta if mastina is scum tuneling town Bingle for no apparent reason... I actually don't know.

[T3]

What I was saying is that IF there is a deepwolf it's probably Emp.

[T3]

I'm wondering how many fail eliminations we actually get before game over.

The nature of the pain potions makes this an unknown quantity.

Objectively, I'm probably the best town elimination today.

The scum potions are variable, probably between 2-7 with 3, 4, and 5, all at around 20% and 2, 6, and 7 at 10%. [this might be wrong]

[T3]

Scum with 6 or 7 is massively terrible for us. 3 is most likely.

[T3]

Scum have a diferent optimal strategy per distribution, so it's pretty pointless to speculate.

[T3]

VOTE: limit
If this is town I will eat my anime hat.

[T3]

VOTE: bingle

[T3]

There’s an interesting lack of any paranoia here. Limit claimed a watch on me after most actions were claimed, and thus it was a pretty safe claim to make.

RCEnigma- claimed shot on us
The Limit Does Not Exist (hydra of Something_Smart and lilith2013)- watched boongle
Green Cap Boys (hydra of Retti and Datisi)- ???
T3 - ???
The Emperor-???
NorwegianboyEE-???
Dwlee99-???
Bingle -???
mastina -???
Fairy Circle (hydra of Momrangal and Flea the Magician)- pained. boongle

Try again?

I shot limit and already said that. Dwlee also harmograohied me. mastina also harmographied someone but I forgot who.

[T3]

mastina's push on you is completely terrible, I agree. You're still in my PoE.

[T3]

While Flea does actively mess with their meta, my reasons to townread Flea are consistent across all of their towngames. Flea hasn't commented on my meta towncase, but I assume this isn't something Flea noticed.

[T3]

completely terrible

It isn't. It's weak, but I AM slightly more likely to effort as scum than as town, particularly given that I haven't had a scumgame that made sense to effort in in quite a while. It is 100% reasonable for mastina to see my behavior and go "Oh shit, is Bingle scum here?" I am objectively not an awful elimination choice.

More though, the reactions to the case are terrible. No one who has leant any support to the case has in any way shown an effort in actually reading me. Some of these (Norwee for example) have been up front about it. Waffley and unsure, but willing to trust the word of a townread.

Others (Mom) have been very vocal about how I'm obvious scum for no real reason.

WRT Fleameta, you're townreading faer for omgus tunneling you, when I don't really see an omgus tunnel. The admission that Flea engages in meta manipulation only strengthens my "Don't give a fuck" about your metaclear. ​Mastina locktowned faer in ODM early and accurately and has had literally the exact opposite reaction here. Their (collective) entire approach to hydra-ing gives the impression of not wanting to be held accountable for things.

I don't have them as a townlock and the meta manipulation was my one caveat to my townread.

[T3]

And also FC being massively scummy.

[T3]

If this is town I will eat my anime hat.

What warrants such confidence? Or do you just have a taste for hats?

-S

I don't see a world in which you are town tbh

[T3]

I’ll do some research myself later to see if this is similar to scum!Bingle in their other games. But i’m happy sheeping Mastina for now.

This isn't his scum or towngame, at least on a surface level.

[T3]

I may have exaggerated my Limit read,but I still think they are scum.

[T3]

I may have exaggerated my Limit read,but I still think they are scum.

Can you give me a reads thing

I hate readlists.

[T3]

But I'll still do it.
Locktown: mastina, Norwee, GCB
Town: Fairy, Emp
Nulltown: RCE
Nullscum: Dwlee
Sum: Limit

: Bingle

[T3]

I thought you knew me better t3

You're the guy who says metabad.

[T3]

OKAY DWLEE METADIVE TIME

[T3]

There is no scumcase against RCE.

[T3]

I took a look at how scum Dwlee interacts with his partners.

[T3]

Scum Dwlee will almost never directly interact with his partners unless:
1. He is asking them a question about their reads.
eg. "Hey House do you still scumread mastina and Taly?"
2. He is joking.

He will also almost never give reads on his partners unless they are being run up, in which case he will townread them. In most other cases he wil be very cautious when reading his partners and will come across as unsure in his reads of his partners. He will use "?" much of the time when providing reads on his partners.
eg. "Norwee is slightly towny for the reaction I think?"

[T3]

T3 isn't here, I feel lost

Also

[T3]

Dwlee specifically has been giving me flashbacks to Draft, where he was scum defending me from Titus in lieu of defending himself, and I want to know if you see the same thing.

This is not a comparable scenario at all and stop doing meta

seems like both retti and i are operating in "i don't feel like doing this, my hydra partner will probably post something" mode. uh real talk, something about this game makes it exhausting to sit through - i've been skimming along but nothing is naturally coming to me. i'm forcing myself to sit down and properly read, woo.

-D

Also I felt this too because the game started at a weird time for me IRL and everyone was posting lots of words that I did not want to read.

Fairy has 2 scumreads

The other thing is that there are 3 scum sooo

The irony is thick.

(I haven't forgotten how many people said this to Dwlee last game.)

I don't remember that in Chrono or Open draft. I was telling house to read my posts in Chrono

Same to t3. Why are you on fairy? Was Titus bussing you earlier??

For future reference.

[T3]

If Dwlee is scum 1450 is exactly the kind of interaction he has with his scumbuddy.

[T3]

....except I'm town.

[T3]

Based on Dwlee's meta if he flips scum then Bingle is probably town for that interaction.

[T3]

Normally it would be slightly town indicative if meta didn't exist but scum Dwlee would never do this to his buddy.

[T3]

This is actually really good for my possible team reads.

[T3]

PoE: Bingle, Dwlee, RCE, Limit
Dwlee = scum then Bingle = town.
RCE and Limit remain.
Because Dwlee is usually cautious around his scumbuddies and doesn't push them RCE is town. Dwlee has also been somewhat cautious with both reading and interacting with Limit. This means there is a deepwolf.
Dwlee has been pushing Fairy. Fairy is town. That leaves Emp, a lean scum of his.
IF DWLEE IS SCUM THE SCUMTEAM IS PROBABLY DWLEE/EMP/LIMIT.

[T3]

If at least 2 of these are right then I would like you to write a public apology to meta.

[T3]

Scum Dwlee CAN have these interactions with town but to a lesser extent.

[T3]

Norwee how do you hyperpost so much
Tech me your ways

[T3]

Scum Dwlee CAN have these interactions with town but to a lesser extent.

He did this with A50 in Screaming amd with me in this game.

[T3]

The key word is "if"

[T3]

Meta is annoying because if you say what you're doing they change it

[T3]

Oky if you are scum with at least one of them THEN meta is good

[T3]

Gamestate read: there's a deepwolf and it's Emperor

FTFY

[T3]

hi i'm alive barely, does anyone wanna tell me if anything interesting happened in the past two days?

-D

Everyone shitpushing everyone in the PoE.

[T3]

VOTE: limit
die death die deatb die

[T3]

You are sitting in my PoE practically begging to be limmed.

[T3]

Don't use vibes to push people
no
just no

[T3]

Still cringe.

[T3]

Okay VOTE: rce

[T3]

Limit is still scummier.

[T3]

VOTE: limit
NVM we have time.

[T3]

Aristeia is the anime girl's anime girl

[T3]

ANYWAYS
RCE, at least on a surface level sounds towny. Limit does not, and lillith's reaction to the tunnel felt forced and overblown.

[T3]

ANYWAYS
RCE, at least on a surface level sounds towny. Limit does not, and lillith's reaction to the tunnel felt forced and overblown.

Why just on the surface?

Not that I want to be cased as scum but like, what am I doing if in scum under the surface?

I already don't think norwees reason for pushing me is very good and mostly just hangs on me defending a slot they thought was surefire scum. But I think the real reason it bugs me is that the impression is my scumplay would be to softball a fake read on Titus to tie me there when she was an easily pushable slot and then to death tunnel for two days straight.

In other news I don't know if the game just feels like walking through mud because it's slow or because I can only get certain slots to even entertain interacting with me.

There is nothing that makes you very scummy, or at least not more than limit.

[T3]

I looked at a few of your recent games to see how you respond to pressure and this is consistent with your townfame.

[T3]

Town you will get exasperated and OMGUS tunnel someone. Scum you will write furious quotewalls.

[T3]

Citations:
Me in Calculasia
Me in ODM
Mena in another game

[T3]

T3 did you ever try to meta for my alignment rather than my positioning with scum buddies?

I did earlier and found nothing.

[T3]

Scum will probably have 3 4 or 5 pain potions = not 3 kills.

[T3]

scum potion spec is useless

[T3]

lilith's reaction to GCB and mastina comes off as faked. GCB was barely posting by that point and mastina made a few posts like "yeah limit is scum" and lilith immediately responds like "ohhhh i just want to get out of this game blegh stop tunneling me i'm angry"

[T3]

who do you consider to be widely townread slots?

You + Norwee

No idea what happened to emperor slot.

I could be wrong about this tbh, I haven't been paying much attention to the game.

-S

*blank stare*
VOTE: limitx2222222222222222

[T3]

How possible is FC/RCE/Limit team?

FC is

probably

not scum as in I wouldn't touch them today.
I would say Dwlee/Aristeia/Limit?
Only thing I'm almost absolutely sure about in my PoE is that Dwlee/Bingle is not s/s. Dwlee/RCE could be s/s but probably not and if Dwlee is scum he's been treating Aristeia and Limit like he would usually treat his scumpartners.

[T3]

What? Are you saying i’m not doing anything?

Yes

-S

doubt.jpg

[T3]

FC is probably not scum as in I wouldn't touch them today.
I would say Dwlee/Aristeia/Limit?
Only thing I'm almost absolutely sure about in my PoE is that Dwlee/Bingle is not s/s. Dwlee/RCE could be s/s but probably not and if Dwlee is scum he's been treating Aristeia and Limit like he would usually treat his scumpartners.

Is this, like, too insightful for town-T3?

(Have I ever even played with town-T3? DEFCON, I think)

-S

It depends.
Town me in DEFCON was very different to town me in ODM or Yakra.

[T3]

There is literally no way Norwee has done nothing this day.

[T3]

Come on.

[T3]

who do you consider to be widely townread slots?

You + Norwee

No idea what happened to emperor slot.

I could be wrong about this tbh, I haven't been paying much attention to the game.

-S

Okay but

[T3]

Yea limit I feel like mastina is more likely deepwolf than GCB.

Why have 0 people listened to her all game then

-S

[T3]

The Limit Does Not Exist (3): Green Cap Boys, Aristeia

Where the fuck is aristeia? Also, who the fuck is aristeia?

Animeland, Pooky alt.

[T3]

but, we both agree the limit pushes are absolute garbage.

ok, convince me why i'm wrong

-D

Why are they scum other than

OMG SHITTY REACTION TO PUSH

and

LACK OF PRESENCE

and

OVERREACTION

it's pretty clear that lilith isn't kept up with the game, imo and what kind of information can they even give, given they have barely any interactions with anyone in the game?

Also saying that Norwe posted no content which is uh false.

[T3]

Also saying that Norwe posted no content which is uh false.

Being wrong is scum because?

-S

The word lying comes to mind.

[T3]

Provable[/v] eg. x flipped town but they actually flipped scum or
x claimed odd night not even night

[T3]

Okay Datisi but T3 just scumclaimed. Please get with the times

-S

LMAO
really?

[T3]

So why is this different?

-S

It's not absolutely true like modconf info or claiming that someone said something when they didn't.

[T3]

I mean provable lies as in stuf that is talking about something completely true.
Norwe not posting content is false, but scum could attempt to misrep that.

[T3]

Okay so Dwlee misreping me and limit suddenly coming along with an epiphany is annoying.

[T3]

I just iso'd Limit and F4'd for T3 and its like all over the place.

I don't really understand the progression from T3 town, t3 NAI, t3 i dont know to T3 is lockscum lets kill him?

It feels quite reachy and desperate.

I don't think it's something I've ever seen SS do before? pls correct me if I'm wrong.

THANK YOU
YOU ARE TOWN
PROBABLY
unless this is some weird af pocket.

[T3]

So I think I actually misunderstood what nero was saying when making that post. I do think provable lies are NAI, and this is not a provable lie.

[T3]

Provable[/v] eg. x flipped town but they actually flipped scum or
x claimed odd night not even night

Out of curiosity T3. WHY do you believe provable lies are NAI?

-S

@T3

-S

There's no scum motivation for saying that a player flipped town when they didn't and it's more likely they wre confused.

[T3]

It's not entirely subjective as you could argue Norwee has been flufing.

[T3]

Because you got called out.

[T3]

Like, if my plan was to say that Norwee was fluffing, then presumably the idea would be respond to "he isn't doing nothing" with "actually, he's fluffing". If nobody responded that way (unlikely), I wouldn't have to have another excuse prepared.

-S

This is expecting you put a lot of thought in your post.

[T3]

Oh no, none of Dwlee/T3/Norwee was the elimination.
Titus is probably fuming in the dead thread.

[T3]

PAIN
if limit is town

UNPAIN
if limit is scum

[T3]

I want to care and be passionate about this game so it’s sad when some slots say "f this game"

[T3]

What happens in fight Club stays in fight Club

Also, sorry you repped into a ded slot

How so? I don’t seem to be dead yet.

mastina claims to know for a fact you are scum.

[T3]

I'm not sure what to make of lilith's reaction. Doesn't really matter though.

[T3]

AGHHHHHH

[T3]

I'm thinking
So Dwlee/RCE are in the PoE and probably not scum together. Ari is the only one left outside of my locktowns [mastina, Norwee, GCB]
so uh this 'locktown isn't really locktown'
Ari is basically 100% scum here unless I just suck at reading s/s interactions

[T3]

Pains claim first, harmos claim, docs claim, jailkeepers claim.

[T3]

From an outsider's POV
Norwee and GCB are town.
Ignore mastina for the moment.
Scum in Dwlee/RCE.
Ari and I are seither both scum or one scum, deoending on mastina's alignment.
This feels wrong.

[T3]

Your idea for me scum is that I spent yesterday pushing none of the 3 town all with wagons but instead tried to counterwagon anything else.

who

[T3]

Your idea for me scum is that I spent yesterday pushing none of the 3 town all with wagons but instead tried to counterwagon anything else.

who

Bingle, fairy, AND limit I had in my townreads.

Oh
Okay you're town
I think.

[T3]

I didn't pain.

[T3]

That could be whiteknighting but your order kinda makes sense although exchanging you for mastina.

[T3]

If mastina is scum then metabad
If mastina is town then metabad
This is a quandry.

[T3]

Or the meta I used on mastina is bad. :<

[T3]

I do think you should claim ftr

[T3]

Where in my listing do you want me to claim?

I have no idea where my listing is at tbh

[T3]

I think Dwlee isn't scum with RCE. But mastina's wall sounds really towny.

[T3]

Unless deepwolf pain is happening Ari is probscum.

[T3]

Okay: I pain potion'd RCE so they might be one hit unless doctor/jailkeeper stuff gets involved.

I think all harmography potions should claim now.

[T3]

Hold up
Wait a minute

[T3]

Fairy had a shot n1? And this was claimed when?

[T3]

Day 2. Fairy shot Bingle and said she would do it again.

Oh I'm dumb I thought he meant Fairy was shot n1.

[T3]

scum potion spec is useless without flipped scum

[T3]

If you hit town at any point it kinda does. Getting the clean sweep though I see.

My wagon yesterday didn't hit resistance. I had 3-4 votes the whole day and it didn't switch until Mastina campaigned for tldne based on bingle not picking up steam. Bingle refused to go on me even as our wagons competed and I read that as highly town indicative. That might be hindsight making it stronger now cuz, well FC was town too but at the time I wasn't convinced with Mastinas case and me voting bingle would have to be something pretty damning.

I threw the possibility of Mastina!scum at bingle yesterday and he remained adamant this was their towngame and I'm inclined to believe it.

So with that said my wagon lost steam with tldne's picking up off the back of Mastinas vote.

With the way bingle/FC played out yesterday AND knowing both had a shot n1 (my bad, I know) I figure scum saw the support to elim I had but backed Mastinas push to preserve a miselim today with the idea that BOTH bingle and FC would be night kills.

Unless the team is me+Mastina+whoever, then you could argue scum actively moved against my elim for preservation instead of changing gears for the win.

Wait yes he WAS saying that Fairy and Bingle had ben shot n1. Because Bingle fliped without potions.

[T3]

I would just like to confirm that no one claimed an n1 shot on Fairy.

[T3]

Oh I am dumb okay

[T3]

Wait where did you claim you pained Fairy?

[T3]

I took a shot at FC last night hoping that at least two others saw the major swing away from FCs elim yesterday. I was 100% when I said that a town!Titus flip would earn FC a bullet.

Mastina you are going to have to hardsell bingle as scum imo, if he is he'd have to be a far removed third from FC and whichever of Norwee/T3/dwlee is just scum and not derptowning this game.

Found it

Oh okay

[T3]

mastina's extreme conviction is either a last ditch pocket attempt or +town.

[T3]

I'm a swing voter :0

[T3]

Can you all just claim?

[T3]

Should I claim?

[T3]

ehhhhh

[T3]

Trapped in claiming purgatory, Dwlee screams into the lonely void.