Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Irrelephant11]

keyser where'd you go

I'm working on the long post re:gustavo but I have to go offline in less than an hour and I want to talk if possible

pedit: right, so good thing Nauci cleared me

[Irrelephant11]

Something I'm learning as I'm reading Gustavo's ISO and thinking about EP's - EP thinks it's mom and tw pretty much right off the bat. Meanwhile, Gustavo never gives a reason to scumread either player, but does vote for both of them when they're lynched. Hard to say which is the informed perspective...

[Irrelephant11]

Right, that's what I meant

[Irrelephant11]

I think I want to lynch EP :crying_laughing:

[Irrelephant11]

That's actually more OTT than I mean to be. I'm stuck now between EP and Gustavo. A lot of the quotes I've been pulling together from Gustavo include his reads always, consistently, being 100% wrong. On the other hand, EP apparently was scumreading the worst, and yet says he used his one-shot delayed neighborizer on him, which I know we touched on but in retrospect seems less believable than before. Gosh these ISOs are tricky things, and I am aware that I am paranoid.

Keyser this is why I wanted to talkkkk

[Irrelephant11]

most of your reads and reasoning all game, honestly.

You disagree with Shos which is whatever. I had good reason today specifically scum read him

You voted gamma after I did so you clearly shared that one.

Could you maybe be less vague? I can’t defned myself from vague accusations

Spoiler: things that I didn't understand from Gustavo's perspective

And this just one of the reasons why I’m suspicious of skitter.

this was the first mention I could find of a scumread on skitter and I didn't understand it

VOTE: keyeser

Really hate when people say they are going to do stuff instead of actually doing it.

this seemed like a vote for scum, you're saying now it's not but either way I don't get the thinking here. Why vote someone for pressure when they say they're about to make content? Why scumread someone about to make content, rather than wait for the content to see?

I still personally think sho is scum but if I’m all alone I’m not wasting anymore time pushing it. Skittle is scummy also. Bernie’s weird hammer looks bad also. I don’t remember my day 1 read of keyser was but his day 2 gut pings me hard. These mom votes also ping me.

Skitter, Bernie, Keyser scumreads. Never understood any of these. (sidenote: subtle defense of mom here)

I feel like I’m pretty transparent? Ask me any question, if you’re genuinely unsure how to sort me

I mean that’s why I want to town read you but then you make scummy posts sometimes. Scum have to appear town and I feel you are doing a good job of looking town but I don’t get that feeling it’s genuine

VOTE: Skitter
Just a feeling. y’all should sheep me

You weren’t being transparent here.

Actually given that she's V/LA till the 9th (wow) I'd say it means she's the designated vote-for-people-not-paying-enough-attention

I'll come back to her later

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Or here.

I found other examples of you not being transparent or sheeping votes for little to no reason.

You aren’t transparent when it matters imo.

You find reasons to scumread me but go on to ignore them and not vote me ever

mean according to your 1678 you scumread Keyser, Bernie, Skitter, me

Finding people scummy doesn’t mean I think they are scum.

like what

And you haven’t offered any townreads

And?

I said I didn’t have any. Even if I did I’m not required to share them.

this is both confusing and an un-cooperative attitude

Ill only vote you/skittle/elephant today.

Sorry I left off nauci.

"you" meaning Shoshin. This list is again without reasons, seems baseless, confused me then and confuses me now

Gustavo can you please respond to this, or maybe let me know that you're going to later? I'd like to know why you are no longer scumreading Bernie or Keyser, and whether or not you scumread me (& if so, why).

I don’t town read you. I’m good with day 1 policy lynches.

Sho/skittles/nauci are my current scum reads. I don’t have good feelings about you or Bernie.

Though I’m kind of annoyed right now. Not a single person scum reads the scummiest person in the game yet nobody can explain what about this behavior makes him town.

Ignoring the shoshin thing, you're consistent here with previously expressed scumreads but still make no case on most of them/don't vote most of them

I like Keyser and elephantman for scum right now

???

Skitter could be scum also

????

Because if we lynch BV and he flips 1sbp, you (gustavo) are no longer cleared. And since we have to wait a while for BV to come back, and NM is being pretty stubborn, getting a closer look at you is another helpful option

even if he flips 1sbp i'm still cleared imo.

this makes no sense to me, especially when compared to the below:

I didn’t think I was the NK target. I thought shos was stupid to save me. I honestly felt I’m being saved for lylo.

My gut says one of the claims is fake. I’ve searched the archived games and when scum has an encryptor, scum never have a neighborizer. I found one game where scum had a BP RBer and an encryptor and town had a neighborizer but I actually can see errant being scum here. He had a vote on tw and he was late and no reason. He had a vote on mom that’s again was late and no reason.

I don’t really have a read on skitter yet but nobody else seems to think he’s scum so it’s not worth looking there I guess. I will before the day ends.

So if we can eliminate skitter, We need to either lynch one of those bv/ errant today or lynch me and y’all deal with which one of the remaining tomorrow.

Logic says bv today. My heart/gut says it’s errant.

We obviously have time so when I have more of it I’ll do some more reading.

My gut says with the neighborizer scum is either bv or errant but let’s lynch nm anyway

this is weird and in retrospect v scummy

like his posting today makes me feel like he doesn't really care who gets flipped

It’s because I don’t. It’s not mylo/lylo. I’m also supposed to be on v/la so I can’t really do much. I’ve pretty much eliminated you. If you are scum nobody is seeing it so you’ll win. So that means from my POV it’s bv or errant which means town wins no matter what.

If y’all want to lynch me today I already said that should be the choice. Me or bv.

"town wins no matter what" and "if y'all want to lynch me I already said that should be the choice" contradict

I did see a very odd statement from errant that I can’t process. Where he describes what happened in the Pt. I swear he describes the worst scum plan of painting others as scum buddies to mom. It’s weird.

No clue what this is referring to or means

I've learned that this sore subject makes you angry and leads to many posts that are unhelpful because they are NAI. I'm gonna skip this question

No please don’t.

If a player out right lied about you to shade you. How would you react?

In general, I'd think they were scum, but I also OMGUS too much. I'd definitely want an explanation. I won't say more here.

I think it's scummy not because of the compromising, but because of the refusal most of the time to cooperate

Idk if I ever refused to cooperate though. Can you find some specific examples where I refused to cooperate?

Will answer tomorrow, hopefully

[Irrelephant11]

cause i thought he was town d1 and we're friends and i like him

What was the stupid reason you had for the town read? Did you ever explain it?

I dont even remember but it was something to do with the replace in i think, I wasnt taking the game nearly as seriously as i did on D2 and D3 and thought it didnt really matter who i targeted

Okay:

N1: I neighborized worst
D2: The thread was made.
N2: The thread was unlocked.

Post order (we joked around a lot, those things are omitted. and posts are heavily paraphrased for obv reasons)

EP: I know youre a PR
EP: What are your reads, do you still scumread Nauci & Skitter
TW: Nauci & Skitter are probably partners with mom, i'm not surprised at the flip
TW: I'm probably going to be looking at BV tonight
EP: So you're a cop? why don't you investigate one of your scumreads
TW: It makes more sense to investigate at the top of the lynchpool <-- (basically claiming cop or something simiilar??)
TW: BV is a nullread and most likely wont be night killed
EP: I still dont think it makes sense not to investigate a scumread
TW: I'd always choose someone like this regardless of who i scumread
EP: did you have a result on N1
TW: maybe you'll find out eventually
EP: Why not investigate me instead of BV
TW: no thanks

[Irrelephant11]

ohhh nevermind I don't want to lynch EP he scumread the worst

after

picking him as neighbor

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah I'm sold on Gustavo, hope this helped Keyser.

[Irrelephant11]

"You may delay, but time will not."

Votecount 1.13

Gamma Emerald(4)

~ Mathdino(59), Bernie Sanders(107), Shoshin(185), Not_Mafia(39)

Momrangal(3)

~ Errantparabola(5), skitter30(98), Nauci(78)

Nauci(2)

~ Momrangal(45), the worst(122)

Shoshin(1)

~ Gustavo(104)

Gustavo(1)

~ Gamma Emerald(78)

Not Voting (4): Irrelephant11(103), Keyser Söze(126),

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-04 17:10:00)

This was done by hand so please tell me if I made mistakes.

Spoiler: colored version

Votecount 1.13

Gamma Emerald

(4) ~ Mathdino(59),

Bernie Sanders

(107),

Shoshin

(185),

Not_Mafia

(39)

Momrangal

(3) ~ Errantparabola(5), skitter30(98),

Nauci

(78)

Nauci

(2) ~

Momrangal

(45),

the worst

(122)

Shoshin

(1) ~ Gustavo(104)
Gustavo(1) ~

Gamma Emerald

(78)

Not Voting (4):

Irrelephant11

(103),

Keyser Söze

(126),

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-04 17:10:00)

Mom, what's your current read on Gamma?

I'm hung up on it.

Gamma is not town, and makes sense as scum but at the same time something doesn't feel right.

Wagon comp could be better and I may be hung up on the fact that Bernie is on there. It doesn't seem like much of a bus placement but in my mind, both Bernie and gamma have decent chance of flipping scum but I don't see much associations between them.

That aside, I feel like gamma has been getting a little bit more engaged and I don't want to discourage that especially when I think I see some probing I don't remember coming from scum gamma

this was the only other thing of note I found. Looking at that votecount, Mom says she doesn't like the Gamma wagon composition. Anyone have any thoughts there?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean yeah Gustavo I'm new but I haven't lost a game yet and I don't plan on having this be the first. I happen to be currently seriously considering the possibility that you're town, actually, given the last page or so. I'm also sure I won't be joining any more games with you - the insults coming my way this game day are unnecessary and uncalled for.

Keyser, let's talk more about EP. I think the delayed aspect of neighborizing is a weird part of his claim, and I wonder if that was a way to make his claim more believable alongside his D2 scumread of tw. I think Gustavo's points on this page are good ones.
I will say that if EP is telling the truth he has the worst in his "hail-mary going out on a limb town" category just before N1 (when he supposedly made the neighborize choice), which I think makes sense as a way to talk about someone you're mostly townreading for being a PR (which is something he had expressed at that point). It also makes sense to me to neighborize a potential town PR to share information between townies that hurts scum. His reasoning for scumreading tw the following day is apparently "I stepped up my game". This all tracks imo, so I'm not sure which part of this progression you think is scummy.

On the other hand, while this game matches Stungun's scumgame, it also matches Gustavo's town game. I'm not sure what to make, alignment-wise, out of Gustavo's string of insults towards me since I made the comment about knowing Mom's gender. Obviously that's not a great reason to have a scumread on someone, but who gets more upset about it, town about to be mislynched or scum being nailed for a terrible reason?

I think BV has had some great reasoning for his own town-case, but he can't completely erase the scumminess of the ways tw and mom interacted with his slot.

Sigh. Again I am unsure what the best move is.

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: Non-game comments @ Gustavo

Go ahead and call me out on bad pushes, but

Attack the play, not the player.

Saying your knowledge of Mom's gender could be related to your emotional closeness to her as a potential scum partner is obviously not an intentional insult, imo. It's wildly speculative, I agree, and I've acknowledged that. I've also apologized for hurting your feelings unintentionally. But it's not the same as the way you have intentionally insulted my intelligence every page of this game since. I forgive you for insulting me, and thank you for the apology. I still won't be playing with you again, because these have reduced the amount of fun I've had this game day greatly.

I assume you won't be insulting me for the rest of the game, so I'll now drop it and get back to playing.

@everyone, sorry for making this about me for a bit. Back to the game.

Keyser, one of the main reasons I want to lynch Gustavo is that his slot is surrounded by so much wifom. You're townreading him for it, I'm scumreading him for it, and either way bringing him to lylo feels like a dangerous decision. If it's BV or EP (or... skitter???), I think whichever of us makes it there will be able to figure it out without drowning in self-voting wifom in the mean time.

[Irrelephant11]

hwaaa?i went through his iso and didnt see questions

I think Keyser meant to say "Gustavo's questions" from this page and the last. You answered all but one I think

but it seemed like worst was pretty much gearing up to claim eventually with how hard he was hinting at it in thread

Also I know I’ve asked for this before but don’t remember seeing a response. I want to see these crumbs errant noticed that nobody else did

And again if he was his town read who crumbed a Pr, why vote him day 2?

[Irrelephant11]

this game is giving me a headache

[Irrelephant11]

I'll be looking most closely at BV, tomorrow, actually

Think I gave up on him too easily when he AtE'd my paranoia

[Irrelephant11]

Keyser good luck tonight
Here's hoping errant is the nightkill

[Irrelephant11]

Sorry, *cough*, I meant to say BOY IF SCUM KILLS ERRANT I WILL HAVE NO CLUE WHO IT IS

[Irrelephant11]

anyone secretly a useful pr who held out longer than nauci?
that would be my favorite twist

[Irrelephant11]

Honestly if skitter were to hardclaim mafia rn I'd just give her the win

pedit:
I'm still hoping for a twist I enjoyyy

[Irrelephant11]

...dangit skitter you're too good for that as scum huh

[Irrelephant11]

don't give me so much hope
it's cruel

[Irrelephant11]

Blackvoid you were great! Your arguments were especially coherent when arguing your own towniness over Gustavo and EP. I was completely convinced by the time we lynched Gustavo. I said in the dead thread that I only stated I suspected you to survive the night and tunnel EP. Glad it worked out with Keyser living, though!

Great game all! It feels like ages ago that math was entertaining us all with his rapping and we collectively misread Gamma (only one scum on that wagon??? wow). Night play was fantastic on town's part, made it very hard for scum to win with their admittedly impressive dayplay, especially from errant!!! So fun. This one will be one to remember

[Irrelephant11]

if irrelephant and keyser werent clear, i absolutely would have voted either over ep either day5 or day6

lol I'm apparently much better at "townplay" as scum

[Irrelephant11]

It's nice to hear you think I played well but I think I could have been a lot better.

Man your self-standard is high

You nailed so many reads and helped town so much before you died

I'd probably /in for a reunion game too <3


For the record I did SO much VCA and restarted after some of the flips and I have to saw WOOOOWWWWW @the worst you screwed up every VCA thought I ever had

[Irrelephant11]

I had one for just myself for mostly vca, @brass if you want to include it I don't mind

[Irrelephant11]

I liked the setup a lot! I think we took it in some weird directions and I thought it was super unique when there was a delayed neighborizer
But yeah from someone with minimal experience I really liked how everything was handled and how roles interacted. Good job!

[Irrelephant11]

Right, that was the joke
it was EP's fakeclaim and at the time I was like "wow such a fascinating setup who thought of this"
I now see it was much more Normal

[Irrelephant11]

I'll be in the spectator thread for Nauci's game if anyone wants to join that, too!

[Irrelephant11]

lol it hasn't yet
this is gonna be the most lit spec thread everrrrr