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[Dwlee99]

So you think the final two scum are the neighbors?

[Dwlee99]

Okay, what do you think about Kyo's claim that he want along with the neighbor claim because he thought he could make himself a target by appearing to be Anya's mason partner?

[Dwlee99]

And if both are town following your plan just puts us in MELO

[Dwlee99]

Titus do you feel it's fair to burden of proficiency you?

[Dwlee99]

Titus do you feel it's fair to burden of proficiency you?

Depends on the issue but usually not.

The issue here is I'm pretty sure you townread both flipped scum and you were vocally scumreading Nero, me, and I can't remember if you also scumread Peta there.

And if both are town following your plan just puts us in MELO

Both aren't town though.

Second, if that does put us into MELO we deserve to lose this game with the amount of lies in this game and letting them live so long.

It puts us in MELO assuming 4 total scum. If there are traitors or other things it could be worse than that.

[Dwlee99]

Another thing is like, if I'm a cop or a gunsmith or anything investigative I check Anya last night 100% of the time. So if she is scum why is there no guilty on her?

[Dwlee99]

We have this weird babysitter thing, masons, and a voyeur. I don't think that is too much power and doesn't explain the need for a jailkeeper on the scumteam. Especially cause voyeur hardly ever gives super useful results.

[Dwlee99]

I've also played in what I've considered town-sided setups lately so maybe that's clouding things. The mini I just finished had a roaming detective (can't visit same person twice, sees if someone has killed someone), a combined hider bodyguard, a universal backup, and a 1-shot simple vigilante against two goons + complex fruit vendor.

[Dwlee99]

It isn't a vigilante though. It's gated behind your role (assuming it's a legit claim)

[Dwlee99]

Honestly feel like the town power in the game I just played is stronger than double masons + this babysitter thing, and that didn't have a jailkeeper.

[Dwlee99]

It isn't a vigilante though. It's gated behind your role (assuming it's a legit claim)

It's still a 3rd conftown and it provides at least one kill.

Don't agree on conftown given people thought it was evil at first.

[Dwlee99]

Not being able to prove itself = not conftown imo.

[Dwlee99]

Andres, DGB and DotW are masons

[Dwlee99]

I think STD is evil.
Pedit: have you read all of it at least once?

[Dwlee99]

Doesn't that mean you haven't even gotten to the part where Cyrus replaced-in, immediately decided to claim the babysitter role thing, and then scum nightkilled him anyway?

Maybe a good line of reasoning here is: who would shoot that as scum?

[Dwlee99]

And does 1869 strike you as the post that a Mason makes? I’m not buying that crap at all. But whatever I need to finish reading I guess. Back in like 2 more interminable hours.

I mean if you're not trying to claim immediately yea.

Anyway I don’t want to try and get into the mindset of trying to guess exactly why a group of Scum decided on a particular NK. I just don’t think that’s particularly effective. It’s much better when there’s like 1 Scum left because you can put yourself in every person’s shoes that’s left in the game and see whether it makes sense. You don’t know who is deferring to who in the Scum PT. And that carries more weight than you think.

Well we could determine who is deferring to who by going through each person's shoes and seeing who might do that? It could find at least one scum if we are lucky.

[Dwlee99]

I'll maybe doubt the masons only if you can find a post where they express doubt on each other's alignments. From what I remember, they never did that.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: anya

I dont really need an answer, as I already have it.

anya!town doesnt say "they're trying to convince me now that they're a wolf and i should vote for them"

It comes off as knowing ssmb_kyko cant be a wolf. (trying to CONVINCE)

anya!town WOULD SAY "ssmb keeps saying they are a wolf."

HALLELUJAH

What do you mean by this?

[Dwlee99]

Vaxkiller flipped mafia compulsive jailkeeper

[Dwlee99]

Happy Cake day Dwlee99

Thanks!

[Dwlee99]

Started in May, it is now July. So "months." Anya have I asked for your opinion.

Anya would you be willing to throw STD off the boat?

[Dwlee99]

1.) Always sus
2.) PoE

[Dwlee99]

Anya also claimed the announcing modifier

[Dwlee99]

STD wagon is almost assuredly all town unless the masons are fake or VFP is deepwolf af. What bad vibes do you think you're getting?

[Dwlee99]

I thought we thought Rathe was good oml

[Dwlee99]

Am I just totally brainfarting? I thought there were some interactions with nom someone cited to me as being reasons for town!rathe.

[Dwlee99]

Oh I think it was when nom tried to push t3 and me away from voting peta towards voting rathe?

[Dwlee99]

Gamma when VFP said Titus and STD were in Lim range what did that mean to you?

[Dwlee99]

Gamma when VFP said Titus and STD were in Lim range what did that mean to you?

I'm starting to think you're a deep wolf here.
It's clear what he thought it meant, considering he never once addressed it after I said it.

Stop trying to give him an out.

I'm asking for clarification because if he thought it was hammer that's extremely bad and your phrasing made it seem like it would be hammer

[Dwlee99]

my thoughts so far:
getting town vibes from nero, reminds me of the few games I played with him where he was town, nothing out of the ordinary, feeling pretty confident about this one
the mech talk at beginning of thread makes reads messy for me so I ain't touching those, not even with gloves
I don't like these pushes on dwlee and peta, not because of the way it's started, it's just that these pushes on "loud guys" day 1 often don't end well in my experience
I wanna focus on the guys that give me "cruising by" vibes cuz even if one of dwlee/peta is scum it just means other scums are just cruising by, i wanna make this more out of this day 1 than "push confrontational loudmouth"
Out of everything I read I feel rathe's progression is the one that sticks out the most, cruising by posts, non confrontational tone when called scum + joining on popular bandwagon gives me the vibe of scum trying not to gather attention, another worrying fact is people calling the slot scum but not pushing it, I wanna force the issue on this one
VOTE: Rathe
Kyouko's 104 also struck me as bad when there's a bunch of shit happening and going with a rvs-like vote
That's where I'm at right now more or less
now push with me or ur scum kthxbye

This is the post @VFP
UNVOTE:

Please end this

[Dwlee99]

Why would you check claimed neighbors?

[Dwlee99]

Can we stop this and vote scum now thanks?

Pedit: it wasn't quite like that fmpov but I'm gonna be busy for a bit cya later

[Dwlee99]

I saw it and unvoted STD. Vfp I don't care what your case is we are bare minimum letting Gamma check Anya tonight

[Dwlee99]

I saw it and unvoted STD. Vfp I don't care what your case is we are bare minimum letting Gamma check Anya tonight

and if scum NK gamma? then we have no result on Anya. and at that point that's WIFOM

a good point but imo it's still worth it to try
but I won't be upset if Anya is eliminated because I don't have a personal stake rn (this has to do with a past game where I tried to use my role to get a check on a widely suspected player)

Then we don't have to possibly eliminate gamma which is cool. Vfp what are you doing? Your play makes no sense from a mech standpoint here.
Agreed that maybe they knew PT cop

[Dwlee99]

So like check Anya, if Gamma is dead cool we don't have VFP tunnelling. If Anya comes up positive we kill. If not then still useful

[Dwlee99]

I don't think scum have a roleblocker give one already flipped JK

[Dwlee99]

Then play it like normal but never eliminate Anya before Gamma flips

[Dwlee99]

Agreed on PT cop + masons making sense

[Dwlee99]

bleeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

VOTE: StD

Why are you voting someone with a confirmed check on them?

Seconding this?

[Dwlee99]

Jailkeeper doesn't stop checks, that would be a rolestopper iirc. Jailkeeper would directly block the PT cop from getting a check.

[Dwlee99]

Busses who? Dragons or?

[Dwlee99]

Titus claimed babysitter enabler

[Dwlee99]

btw who were these @

[Dwlee99]

Site deleted my reply: as DotW said, me

[Dwlee99]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642

Is it this one? I want to know the reasoning here

[Dwlee99]

T3
ChaosOmega
Andresvmb
Titus

Is my current PoE I think

[Dwlee99]

I found some of Andre's posts townie sounding but I don't like how he keeps deferring to the game being too long or unreadable.

Also I kinda think I get what VFP means when he says Andres should be townread
why are people scumreading Andres?

I think that was sarcasm. SoD2 I felt like his push on me was really bad and he kind of just sat the last half of day two out when the Anya/Osuka wagon was forming. I think he scumread Osuka day one but I don't think placed his vote on it day two.

[Dwlee99]

Btw my PoE list means for today. Anya isn't there because PT cop checks her tonight. VFP can you towncaae chaos?

[Dwlee99]

Well those four names aren't in preference order.

[Dwlee99]

Feel like that question would have been better suited for your mason PT

[Dwlee99]

O

[Dwlee99]

To clarify: were y'all informed that the other was informed of yourself?

[Dwlee99]

I think a PT cop existing would confirm traitors are in the game, because unless there are unclaimed neighborhoods floating around the only PT is the scum chat.

[Dwlee99]

Honestly the informed of PT cop theory makes sense and maybe it would make sense to kill Anya and then have Gamma check someone else.

[Dwlee99]

I think a PT cop existing would confirm traitors are in the game

How would that work?

Might as well be a cop with no non-traitor scum if there are no PT. It could also be mod WIFOM or if scum are informed of it they could know to claim?

[Dwlee99]

It may actually be worth limming Anya and seeing what happens to Gamma or what results are claiming from tonight.

I'm also thinking this might be a good plan.

[Dwlee99]

Titus do you have thoughts on the game other than your comments on mason PTs?

[Dwlee99]

If we lim Anya, who do we want Gamma to target?

Probably anyone in the PoE but maybe Andres or T3? Maybe even let Gamma pick in case there are rolestopper/other blocker shenanigans.

[Dwlee99]

Well the STD wagon is dead given gamma's PT check.

I want Gamma's thoughts on who he will check tonight before we go through with an Anya wagon.

[Dwlee99]

if the case is good i'll vote for Dragons saver Dwlee

i'm more wary bc i've seen town dragon get brutally executed countless times

Can you explain your thought process behind claiming neighbor?

[Dwlee99]

Well the STD wagon is dead given gamma's PT check.

I want Gamma's thoughts on who he will check tonight before we go through with an Anya wagon.

What are you talking about?

We aren't killing STD because Gamma claimed STD doesn't have a PT

[Dwlee99]

And what did you get out of that?

[Dwlee99]

Well the STD wagon is dead given gamma's PT check.

I want Gamma's thoughts on who he will check tonight before we go through with an Anya wagon.

What are you talking about?

We aren't killing STD because Gamma claimed STD doesn't have a PT

A traitor wouldn't have a PT.

Traitor is last priority to kill because they get endgamed with no straight up mafia.

[Dwlee99]

What's a better elim?

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Titus

I'm cool with a Titus wagon if one would like to get off the ground. I was asked for a readlist before, I feel like I have enough of a handle on the game now to make one.

{peta, Dwlee, DotW, DGB}
{STD, rathe}
{Anya, VFP, Andres, Kyouko}
{osuka, Vax}
{T3, Titus}

I'm swamped at work, but I'll be in front of a computer if someone wants me to go into detail on any of these.

These reads are very good based on what we know. Am I wrong for being paranoid that you were too right here?

[Dwlee99]

I'm asking you. Sometimes asking people questions like that makes them flub.

[Dwlee99]

My heart is not really in this Anya elimination despite it making sense in my head

[Dwlee99]

I'll hammer if the wagon gets to E-1

[Dwlee99]

Day 3 ends in 0 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes

If you have a different idea make it quick

[Dwlee99]

Can someone vote Anya?

[Dwlee99]

Because I'll hammer sooner than anyone else

[Dwlee99]

You already were voting her

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Anya
Goodnight
I will probably see you in dead chat or post-game next time Gamma. Stop replacing into games with me and immediately dying, thanks.

[Dwlee99]

Damn scum couldn't even let DGB live for me to be annoyed at it for tunneling Anya that hard.

[Dwlee99]

T3 did you just give us a rathe read.

[Dwlee99]

Gamma who do you think leaves you alive here?

[Dwlee99]

Well you gave a pull of people to check.

[Dwlee99]

Pool* autocorrect moment

[Dwlee99]

You not dying makes me paranoid the pool is completely wrong.

[Dwlee99]

Tentative agree given that I've been null about them for a while.

[Dwlee99]

Are you the role that can tell that?

[Dwlee99]

Why does scum!Kyo roleblock what they think is a mason soft?

[Dwlee99]

We leave gamma alive imo

[Dwlee99]

[Dwlee99]

Can I remind y'all that tomorrow is MELO if we eliminate wrong?

[Dwlee99]

I guess I follow the logic there. Maybe it works out to do it that way. VT btw

I'm slightly concerned that if we are in a traitor game that today is actually MELO but I don't think this game would really be balanced with two traitors here

[Dwlee99]

If anyone else hasn't claimed they probably should today

[Dwlee99]

My non-poe read here is chaos and I it's part OMGUS but I don't like 3553

Also feel like the slot has been coasting. I understand the DotW logic here on killing gamma and I think he (DotW) dies regardless of what flips happen today. I don't know if I trust myself to pick correctly tomorrow if Gamma flips town even with two "conf"town. ("Conf" cause traitors can exist).

[Dwlee99]

I had a dream that Titus and someone named Connor were the last scum. I might be playing too much mafia.

[Dwlee99]

The "you haven't actually tried to sort me y" is bad that's a good point.

[Dwlee99]

Andre has been doing this weird thing where he says he has read the thread and then posts like he just got back from a month long V/LA. Also want to say I don't think we should kill Gamma here. Maybe if Gamma survives into tomorrow/D6 I'd consider it more but rn the jailkeeper flip makes me think we have an investigative role of some sort.

[Dwlee99]

Yea that's true. I think I might just be hoping that Gamma's claim is real because I feel like the setup suggests a mid-level-power investigative role per the jailkeeper.

[Dwlee99]

Like unless someone else wants to claim an investigative role I feel like we should have at least one.

[Dwlee99]

And more to that point it's kinda like, is our town power really a weird babysitter thing, two town informed, and 2-shot announcing voyeur. What is the voyeur even supposed to see in this setup?

[Dwlee99]

Voyeur is an extremely weak invest role imo. And look how gated it was. DGB probably spinning in the dead chat rn lol

[Dwlee99]

Yea mech-play says kill the cop before ELO. Not really liking our odds if this flips town but there aren't many other options.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Gamma

[Dwlee99]

I believe scum don't have multi-tasking by default in normals, and I don't see anything in the op saying they do (which I think is required if they do).

[Dwlee99]

The wiki says
[quote=]
Mafia must specify which member is performing the factional kill each night. A mafia member may not both kill and use a power role in the same night by default[/quote]

[Dwlee99]

The wiki says

Mafia must specify which member is performing the factional kill each night. A mafia member may not both kill and use a power role in the same night by default

[Dwlee99]

Wait. If we no eliminate we get to ELO D6, which would mean another gamma result?
VOTE: No eliminate

[Dwlee99]

Wait I should think this through more.

[Dwlee99]

If we no elim D5 also it would go (assuming 2 scum)

D4: 8 2
D5: 7 2
D6 : 6 2

If we eliminate gamma D6 then D7 is 4 2 with clears or 5 1. Or scum have to kill Gamma before this plan executes.

[Dwlee99]

Wait I'm stupid. Tomorrow isn't ELO anyway, what kind of math am I doing.

[Dwlee99]

Okay well mech play is no longer to kill Gamma
D4: 8 2
D5: 6 2 (no-elim)
D6: 5 2 (eliminate gamma)
D7: 3 2 or 4 1, both winnable

Or if we hit scum today:
D4: 8 2
D5: 7 1
D6: 5 1 (eliminate gamma)
D7: win or 3 1 with clears.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Chaos

[Dwlee99]

This is just mech-superior.

[Dwlee99]

Gunsmith? Okay seriously what game are you reading

[Dwlee99]

Oh like a scum gunsmith to hunt for the vigilante babysitter thing? That's actually a good point.

[Dwlee99]

Mini Normal 2214 - Dwlee town
Mini Normal 2216 - Dwlee scum

I wouldn't describe his town-play as aggressive, but he pushes things more and has actual reads, his scum play is very non-committal, which he is in this game as well.

Meta is bad but I guess I'll respond to this anyway. I think my town play varies a lot depending on the game and phase.

I feel like I was super non-committal in https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=86780 day 2 (replaced in day one) and wanted to really consider our options on day 3.

In https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=86679 I also got non-committal on day 2. (There's kind of a pattern here especially if I feel like we are nearing ELO or if we are in ELO).

I could say the same thing about the town game you linked. Day 3 I hemmed and hawed on the guilty claim for a while before making the wrong choice.

In https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86704 I replaced-in and spent the entire day phase I replaced in hopping between 3 town wagons not sure who we should kill.

Not to mention at different parts of the scum game you linked I was varying levels of commited to my reads. I hard pushed a50 day 3, and then was expressing confidence in my max "read" day 4.

Back to this game specifically, the most "non-committal" part of this game I think I had was day 2 when there was an Anya wagon. I hard defended her, then kind of aimlessly searched for a counterwagon. If you'll remember, I basically just went "Poe says Osuka dies" and then he flipped scum. If I was evil I could have acquiesced to an Anya wagon way earlier in that day and have avoided what was essentially a derp wagon on Osuka.

Pedit: I don't think voyeur is detected as having a gun. I know cop is (not sure about PT cop)

[Dwlee99]

I'm fine yeeting there but do you think scum know no masons are in the setup somehow?

[Dwlee99]

As long as DotW agrees with my mech play I think yeeting here is correct play.

[Dwlee99]

Why would I throw Osuka out a window and then try to pivot to Anya the next day if I'm evil? The only reason I had even ended up acquiescing to an Anya wagon is because 1.) STD had a clear claimed on him and 2.) The "masons" were calling for her head constantly.

[Dwlee99]

I literally started the Osuka wagon by going around asking people what they thought of Osuka's slot and if they'd be willing to vote there.

[Dwlee99]

And the thing with Anya yesterday was that the PT cop claim made fake claiming neighbors extremely suspicious.

[Dwlee99]

I'm not saying it's impossible there Gamma but like circumstances + my play style I just don't envision myself as scum derailing a town wagon to push through a scum.

I literally started the Osuka wagon by going around asking people what they thought of Osuka's slot and if they'd be willing to vote there.

And then you jumped off when there was traction in 2663, waited 2 days, saw it was inevitable, jumped back on in 2738, and make a case in 2759, way past the point of mattering or trying to convince people since the lim went through less than 15 posts later in 2772.

I didn't have the foresight to know that Osuka was going to flip scum, sorry? Also pretty sure my case finalized that Osuka was going to die there because at that point there were still people wanting to throw Anya off the roof instead, with DGB calling me a "townie with a broken scumdar."

[Dwlee99]

Relooking at interactions between Anya and Vax/Osuka I'm very annoyed I went along with that yesterday now. Wish we threw Titus off the roof instead.

[Dwlee99]

I think it looks bad for you given that you act like you're going to have to reread the thread but it doesn't seem like you've read the thread.

[Dwlee99]

Typically you want to give town at least amount of scum miselims before losing. This game wouldn't fit that with a traitor, right?

[Dwlee99]

I'm assuming you die tonight, which doesn't make it better for us to no elim D4 than D5.

[Dwlee99]

Also if we elim today we are in a better spot wrt leashing gamma tomorrow, because we can use all the info we have had.

[Dwlee99]

We aren't no limming today when you can provide thoughts on the lim you won't be able to tomorrow. We don't have one less option to mislim tomorrow from no limming today because you're already not an option.

[Dwlee99]

Typically you want to give town at least amount of scum miselims before losing. This game wouldn't fit that with a traitor, right?

what was the game's starting size?

17.

[Dwlee99]

Now last large had 21 players and 6 scum (two traitors) so I think if there aren't 4 scum it would have to be 3 main scum + 2 traitors, not 4 scum + 1 traitor.

[Dwlee99]

Not seeing how eliminating gamma earlier is better if we can possibly get another conf out of him. Either gamma is evil and we kill him D4 or D6, or he is good and we miselim him later which grants us an extra long-term clear.

[Dwlee99]

I'm pretty sure the scum faction is 4 non-traitor scum. Did you mean 5 scum?

[Dwlee99]

To summarize my thoughts here:
We have Gamma with a clear on two people. Either one of these is scum or none of them can be something except for traitors. This removes STD/T3/Gamma from today's lim.

DotW is cleared.

That leaves Titus/Chaos/Kyo/Me/Andres/VFP as a lim pool.

Assuming town!gamma, limming in there (gonna exclude myself from this) gives us a 2 in 5 chance of hitting scum. That's pretty good.

Assuming Gamma!scum, we lim him leaving us in MELO or day before MELO and also may have hit scum assuming Gamma didn't pick both all the scum as the clears.

I'll ultimately defer to DotW here I just feel like if we can eek an extra investigation out it'd be good.

[Dwlee99]

It does because we aren't limming them today anyway.

[Dwlee99]

Voyeur wasn't conftown given we threw her off a roof. The babysitter/vig also wasn't conftown. Titus what role are you?

[Dwlee99]

If we think there are 3 scum alive or there's a good enough chance we should be killing gamma here today so we can just do that.

Pedit: except that the claim of babysitter vig isn't confirmable.

[Dwlee99]

The chances of that are so abysmal but I'm not Gypyx.

[Dwlee99]

Okay sounds good.

[Dwlee99]

Do you object to being killed.

[Dwlee99]

Okay who would you want dead if not you?

[Dwlee99]

Okay fair enough ig. Idk you're a fresh pair of eyes so your perspective can be helpful if town.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Gamma

[Dwlee99]

What are your thoughts on Chaos DotW? Also I want to say that if gamma flips traitor then StD has lots of scum!equity because it could have been a signal from traitor!gamma that he shouldn't be night killed. If he is group scum it's WIFOMy

[Dwlee99]

I'd say it's TvS because their reasons for scumreading me are total garbo.

[Dwlee99]

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[Dwlee99]

Oh also reminder DotW that Kyo exists in the game.

[Dwlee99]

I poked you with a stick and you bit me.

[Dwlee99]

I poked you with a stick and you bit me.

Well you started asking stupid questions
You’re also the one person I think makes sense as the guilty party is the stall T3 called out previously

The guilty party is the stall? I don't know what you mean. My questions were kinda dumb but I was trying to get you to talk about the game and you balked at it.

[Dwlee99]

Is it you again t3?

[Dwlee99]

You know what else points to Kyo? Them not existing. Same reason chaos is probably evil.

[Dwlee99]

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[Dwlee99]

I thought everyone had already claimed.

[Dwlee99]

I don't even know if you have reads to be going along with. It seems like it is just the mech thing and if you've looked at it and came to the conclusion that a gamma yeet is the best mech play then I trust that.

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:
I was this conversation to happen.

[Dwlee99]

What about Titus is she town?

[Dwlee99]

I think we just go Titus.
Scum killing Nero show either a threat there or setting up Titus more. However, I don't think they target Nero as a protective PR, meaning that this wasn't a consideration when killing and most likely means Titus is lying.

VOTE: Titus

why would titus kill nero

i don't think nero is a kill titus would never make but i just want to see more from her today instead of jumping to a conclusion

i agree, im not saying nero is a kill titus never would make. i'm just saying it's also a kill that, if titus is town, scum still couldve made for that exact reason

I don't like these vibes really.

[Dwlee99]

@Osuka Post Dunn flip? I don't see what would make it change. I like your point on vaxkiller and I'm fine throwing that slot out the window if we have to. I still think t3 is a good wagon and I want to say there though. Here are some of my thoughts on t3 summarized:

I don't like how T3 seems to be playing both "sides" of the game here, questioning the DotW + DGB + Titus town block claim but then voting with them on Anya is super weird. I also feel like his absence in light of the claim from Anya + wagon on him is weird, like he is hoping he can just pretend to have been gone and leave his vote there and conveniently avoid the wagon along with it. I know t3's playstyle is kinda like it has been this game, but I think trying to lurk through pressure is super scummy and made even worse by the fact that he is voting a slot that claims town power role and who I believe. If we could force t3 back into the game at least to lock him into a claim that would be great.

I was asking does the majority of the game consider dotw titus and dgb a townblock.

Vax/DGB/Titus and I think Petapan

I need to read more dotw. T3, I feel like your quieter this game, any reason why?

I'm not on on peoples town lists yet prolly, but I will be.

Does Vax not put any of his scum partners in their town block?

[Dwlee99]

That's what I was thinking.

[Dwlee99]

Gamma what made you say you don't like my interaction -> me being a high town read?

[Dwlee99]

One thought is that nom saying I was scum for voting Rathe is kind of chainsawy, which could indicate partners. I could also just see Osuka/Nom(Vax) aggressively distancing. I noticed Vax and Osuka getting into a little read debate at one point.

[Dwlee99]

Okay so are we still going with killing rathe here. I'm gonna try to look for Rathe crumbing the PT cop result.

[Dwlee99]

All I found so far is Rathe saying StD is "okay."

[Dwlee99]

Kyo why is Andres out of your PoE?

[Dwlee99]

Gamma what made you say you don't like my interaction -> me being a high town read?

I still think you’re town, you’re just the lowest townread following that interaction + me accepting a stall pointed towards you

I still don't understand what you mean by the stall.

Kyo why is Andres out of your PoE?

I faked a guilty on him in mini 2213 because I was heavily scumreading him for playing the same there as he has been here. Like he was very inactive, when he did post he had only a little to say until he was put under pressure, and he made frequent promises he would catch up, but didn't always follow through. It feels the same to me here.

I feel like this is something very easy to fake or to not be alignment indicative.

[Dwlee99]

I still don't see why scum!Titus/Andre leaves gamma alive.

[Dwlee99]

I object to being killed.

[Dwlee99]

Based on this data at least 50% of people that object to being killed are town.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Gamma
This just doesn't feel like town!gamma to me.

[Dwlee99]

I think I scumread Rathe day 2? Until someone pointed out the interactions with nom(vax)/osuka. Maybe day 1 too. I don't know how much stake we should put in those interactions anymore and I just feel like Gamma isn't really efforting like I expect. I know Gamma is a good town player. I know that he chose to replace in. Feel like we haven't gotten as much mileage from Gamma as I'd expect if he is town.

[Dwlee99]

On the other hand: feel like we should have an investigative role here given the roleblocker that scum has.
UNVOTE:
I'm indecisive, can you tell?

[Dwlee99]

@STD, Are you trying to annoy me?

the phrasing bothered me i dunno how to put it but i don't understand why i got called out for my three posts in a row and then osuka posts

toniiiiiiight

im gonna have myself a real good time

i feel ali i I IIIIIVE

i'm gonna catch up here in a second, so

don't

stop

me

nooooow

and Titus doesn't bat an eye

This whole page and the one before it has some good reasoning coming from Nero and StD about Titus' slot.

[Dwlee99]

I don't feel like you give the scum a jailkeeper to block a voyeur. Protecting against the vigilante thing makes some sense sure it just doesn't feel like it fits enough in here maybe. Maybe it's just Titus/Andre.

[Dwlee99]

if im a vig I vig petapan
if I'm an investigation role I target Andre
if I'm a doc I'll protect VPF

This is also reason to think Andre could be scum.

[Dwlee99]

honestly, I'm just kinda sick of the day phase at this point. I'd be willing to vote any of

Dragon of the West
Rathe
Andresvmb
nomnomnom
DrippingGoofball
Titus
petapan




kinda just want to lynch the Derek12 so this game doesn't stall out b/c no one will replace in

There's also this pool. Does Nero got night killed for having one scum in the pool and one just "no content kill em" mention? Now if Rathe is scum, it would be two scum in the pool but then again the pool is 7 people so I don't think scum would mind if Nero began ripping through the list like this if only 1 or 2 was scum. But he was bringing a lot of pressure to nom/Titus/Andre.

[Dwlee99]

So we should look for people defending that slot.

This is you

[Dwlee99]

Andre can you give quick thoughts on the people you didn't list?

[Dwlee99]

HURT: Titus

[Dwlee99]

One of Titus/Gamma probably scum?

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Titus
Hammer time

[Dwlee99]

Rip Titus, hope this is the right play today. If this flips scum we can keep gamma alive for an extra result.

[Dwlee99]

Titus were you evil? Don't wanna wait for Gypyx

[Dwlee99]

Oof. Dying reads?

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:
Well she fell for it enough to act like it was real and say she was town

[Dwlee99]

And she was E-2 before T3's attempt at double voting. Also I knew t3 wanted me to do that.

[Dwlee99]

I agree her response is more likely to come from scum here because she didn't do any "here are my reads" or town spew etc.

Pedit: thought he was voting Andres before unvoting?

[Dwlee99]

Oh you're right. It was e-3 when I "hammered" lol

[Dwlee99]

That wasn't a stance change you just aren't reading what I'm saying correctly.

[Dwlee99]

So your 3863 unvoting her is saying likely scum reaction?

I thought that Titus was at E-1 with my vote which is why I unvoted.

[Dwlee99]

There isn't a strong reason to or not to when I'm clearly okay with yeeting her today.

[Dwlee99]

VFP why do you keep leaving Chaos out of all of your groupings.

[Dwlee99]

Nero night kill, defense of nom, pushing the "neighbors," at the beginning of the game pushing the me vs Peta TvT fight, all of the reasons Nero/Peta/Anya were pushing Titus day 1/2/3, play being uninspiring, townread on Osuka and Vax (vax may have fluctuated between null and town I think I need to check), early aligning with the "masons," there is a lot there on rereading parts of day one and two.

[Dwlee99]

Chaos is pretty obvious that I would be ok yeeting based on his play. I feel the "neighbors" are better yeets though strategically.

I don't get townvibes from T3 and there is a bit of consensus there. I don't really like it because it opposes better lims but I would vote to avoid a no lim or a town yeet.

STD, classic lurker elimination. Would compromise.

Rathe, I don't feel like limming.

Vaxkiller's recent posting has been good but he comes and goes in stages. I'm alright with giving this a day.

VFP seems awkward, aloof, and hard to sort. Ok giving this time too.

Osuka, I still get townvibes here.

Generally, anyone on anya or ssbm, I would give a pass to.

[Dwlee99]

i originally like titus's posts but some recent things have bothered me

@STD, Are you trying to annoy me?

the phrasing bothered me i dunno how to put it but i don't understand why i got called out for my three posts in a row and then osuka posts

toniiiiiiight

im gonna have myself a real good time

i feel ali i I IIIIIVE

i'm gonna catch up here in a second, so

don't

stop

me

nooooow

and Titus doesn't bat an eye

[Dwlee99]

Titus I can totally see you being town here especially given the FIA WRC game that just ended I'm just like, confused kind of. And my biggest fear here is that the reason I keep getting into these mental ruts is a false assumption on my town reads.

Here's some of my thought processes about how the game:

I start by assuming two scum with or without a traitor as a rhurd member. Looking at interactions throughout the game I get the vibe that Andre/Titus are not a team and something made me think Chaos/Titus aren't a team although I forget what led me to that conclusion. StD/T3 can't be main scum unless gamma is bsing us, but Rathe's interactions with nom and osuka are good. Like maybe too good where it's bussing but I feel like Rathe presented solid reasons for scumreads on both slots and pushed them with some frequency. There is a point around page 30 where VFP questions whether Rathe's push on nom there is distancing, but I like Rathe's pushes.

I think VFP is town for his pushes on nom early and that entire interaction.

DotW duh.

Okay so who does that leave me with? It leaves me with Titus, Andres, Chaos, and Kyo. Assuming what I read into partner interactions is correct (no Titus/Andre and no Titus/Chaos) then I'm really left with 2 of {Andres, Chaos, Kyo} or {Titus, Kyo}. Are there any parts of my analysis that don't hold up?

Pedit: I'll respond to that soon™

[Dwlee99]

Kyo is like... PoE material. She had the thing with Anya and was defending Anya and I thought she was town for a while in relation to that. A lot of the game I will admit I wasn't trying to sort her because I thought her and Anya were masons so I kind of have head empty on that. I was just thinking about how maybe Kyo makes sense as an elimination here cause if my pairings are right it literally solves the game. That's a big if though.

I could totally see the traitor universe existing where Kyo knows 1.) I have a traitor and 2.) Someone just lied about being in a neighborhood with me and thinks "this is my traitor" leading to all of the things that happened.

Based on where I'm at that would leave STD/T3 as the actual traitor with me leaning towards StD because now that I think about it, "Titus complained about this thing I did but not Osuka" is a way to plant an associative between Titus and Osuka if STD knows that Osuka is scum.

[Dwlee99]

Ugh but Kyo/Titus doesn't make sense either and this is where I descend into some confusion. Kyo also was pushing nom at some point so that's odd. I kind of want to start townreading Andre but I can't quite explain why.

[Dwlee99]

Oh right the thing I didn't respond to: masons wanted Anya dead and the PT cop claim gave credence to the thought that scum had motivation to fake claim neighbor.

[Dwlee99]

And Gamma not dying could mean like anything. If scum were willing to risk getting checked cause of payout, or if the scum just wasn't in that pool at all. If not in the pool then that suggests the Chaos/Kyo team.

I think mech play is trying to hit scum here because if we do we can get an extra check out of gamma. If 3 scum then we only have one miselim left though.

[Dwlee99]

FIA WRC started and finished much after this game started.

[Dwlee99]

I was in the game too...

[Dwlee99]

Well t3 hard pocketed me that game so I have some thoughts. He fake claimed an investigative role and faked a guilty on his teammate to do so though so I'm not sure how applicable that experience is to this game.

[Dwlee99]

That game I felt like t3 got me to believe in him by softechoing my thoughts, calling me obvtown, etc. Like by fake mind melding with me he convinced me that we must both be working towards the same goal. Turns out we kind of were because he imploded the scum team. BUT, I don't know if that is similar to this game and it's also one of those things where like reasoning matters and intent matters. T3 locking me as town to pocket me vs to solve the game would have to be different in some qualitative way.

[Dwlee99]

An extra result into gamma lim if we can afford it is good because if town he could get a guilty.

[Dwlee99]

We have one miselim assuming three scum. If we get a correct elimination today, no eliminate tomorrow, we then still have a miselimination on Day 6 to verify Gamma's claim by throwing him off a bus.

[Dwlee99]

I know I posted a lot of words but I'd like thoughts on my recent analysis of the game in 3888 and surrounding ones.

[Dwlee99]

I know I posted a lot of words but I'd like thoughts on my recent analysis of the game in 3888 and surrounding ones.