The Return to Liten (Game Over)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Unvote, vote: Bowser

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P.S. Dylan Richards is a boring name. Any chance I can get an upgrade?

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Yarr, it is.

What are your thoughts on Nikanor still gunning for a claimed Vig?

Claimed vigs should only be used to create a second lynch, not lynched. What this says about Nikanor is hard to determine without reading the thread.

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If your beard is awesome, why is your hand obscuring part of the view? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

P.S. I still like my Bowservote.

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He most definitely should. It allows for claims, prevents town PRs from wasting their actions (since he should be targetting suspicious people) and gives him less room to manoeuvre.

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1) Mafia might well not have a roleblocker.
2) If they let you kill, your role'll be proven. We can reconsider once you've proven your role.
3) Vigging townies is still better than lynching them; if your targets match consensus suspicions, then a misvig probably hurts less than a wasted investigation.

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I missed that, but it doesn't change anything. He still needs to get a kill off to prove his role. I vote for crucifixion as kill flavour by the bye.

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Square, my use of role in the preceding post was meant in the sense of power. So a vig and an SK would be the same role with different alignment.

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Predit: I can give flavor if you want, but according to Slaxx "flavor means nothing in a large theme like this." In fact, in a hilarious case of circular logic, that's what got this wagon on me restarted - me believing a townclaim's flavor.

I demand flavour.

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Following need death in order of urgancy
1 - Nero Cain
2 - Feysal
3 - Twomz
4 - CES

But we had so much fun last Liten-game!

P.S. Anyone else notice Squara Obscura hasn't posted BP flavour yet despite Wraith posting elsewhere?

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I see. I suppose the rest of us left our kevlar vests home because we figured it'd be a cake walk? If we understand the flavour correctly, we're basically secret agents on an extremely difficult mission (plus sexy times, but that doesn't seem to be all that relevant here). Nervousness would be common and it's not paranoia when the threat is real.

Man, I love it when scum hydras can't come up with a good fake claim and stall; it makes the resulting sucky claim so much easier to analyse.

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Oh yeah and

Mod

, could we get a VC please?

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That looks accurate.

Unvote, vote: Square Obscure

, that's L-1.

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Just ISOed Feysal. Seems like a good lead; absence of scumhunting and some post-lynch distancing.

Vote: Feysal

[b/]

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Well, if he doesn't know how to do his job properly either, then maybe you should tell him how to do his job.

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Anyway, why isn't Feysal dead yet?

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That's a stupid idea.

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"Stupid" was about the entirety of his idea. If we were to planning to kill both Feysal and Apathy, then making everyone switch votes is a bad idea since that induces apathy. I'm also unconvinced by the case on apathy, but that's pretty much a separate matter.

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Well, don't.

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ThAdmiral, kill Nero Cain, yarr.

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It pretty clearly was, though, Twomz, no need to make him feel bad.

A word of advice, Feysal: your last post on D1 really was scummy, and it's not that you said something and what you said and how you said it. In addition, your lack of posting today almost certainly did contribute to your lynch even if it went mostly unstated. You got caught; try to learn from it.

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Why not a naval mine? Dare to dream, my friend.

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The problem, ThAdmiral, is that if you're an SK, you want the mafia to keep surviving for a while since we'll lynch you once we've killed the mafia. I don't trust you to kill the people you genuinely find suspicious, so I want you to just follow the town and kill consensus picks.

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CES is posting on the site, but not here.

Yarr. I need to get back into this game. I have some time set aside for this in around 11 hours. And now I'm going to sleep.

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Re-reading Day 3.

VC analysis is still elaborately making stupid arguments (the fact that I've yet to see it not point to me is just evidence of this).

Im totally willing to throw down a Twomz vote, but given past experiences, the formation and comments on the two wagons suggests that the right lynch here is CES. You can look at how many times he tries to give SO a chance to redeme himself in such quotes as

Square, my use of role in the preceding post was meant in the sense of power. So a vig and an SK would be the same role with different alignment.

¿¿¿ I had used ambiguous phrasing in my preceding post, he misunderstood, I explained to him what I meant. How the hell does that constitute giving him "a chance to redeme(sic) himself"?

or

I demand flavour.

or even

P.S. Anyone else notice Squara Obscura hasn't posted BP flavour yet despite Wraith posting elsewhere?

after that he gave up on him and jumped on the wagon.

You seemed to understand that I voted SO mostly over his flavour, so what is this nonsense? I pushed him to give his flavour, since the fact that he wasn't giving any flavour suggested strongly that he would have to make stuff up. The more pressure is on him to give his flavour, the less he can afford to stall. And I never gave up; I got exactly what I wanted out of him: a confession in the form of a bad flavourclaim and then I voted for him.

I don't like the Twomzwagon. He's made several posts that twinged my gut in a town sense now and a lot of the accusations against him seem unfounded if one considers his playstyle, which I'm somewhat familiar with if I'm not confusing him with Tamuz. LMP's push on him I've especially disliked.

@CES - The first thing you should do is explain your coasting the entire game.

I have not. 22 posts over 15 pages (I replaced in on page 10, Day 3 started on page 25) is perfectly normal activity.

I'm going to

vote: LynchMePls

. Reading his iso he seems much too dismissive of SO's claim, his anti-control the vig position is most definitely pro-scum and his push on Twomz reeked. I don't like Furry either though; I expect better from him.

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Yes, VC analysis has never caught scum before, it must be stupid

Oh, I'm sure it's "caught" scum before. So does randomly picking people. It's stupid because it's an elaborate framework for making appeals to plausibility, mixing a priori and a posteriori reasoning and ignoring people's playstyles.

If you constantly are off scum wagons until it looks like obv-bussing and on Town wagons maybe the problem is not with VC analysis but with your play.

If that were my playstyle (I voted Feysal early and I'm not sure whether SO would've been lynched without that flavourclaim), then the problem would be with both. If VC analysis leads to nonsensical conclusions (ie. X is likely to be scum because X is doing what he normally does), there is clearly something wrong with it.

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1) His claim was illogical and nonsensical given his "Are you a strongman" question earlier in the thread. Of course I dismissed it, it was obviously fake.

No. Making the vig a strongman to weaken the bulletproof townie wouldn't be an unreasonable move by the mod. The strongman question makes less sense from a mafia doctor perspective since then the mafia doctor's existence is pointless. It wasn't "obviously fake" and I think you misjudged this because you knew SO was scum.

2) Having the town vote on the vig kill is bad. Calling that anti-town is hilarious.

I prefer a second lynch to letting an untrustworthy madman loose with a gun. ThAd does not inspire confidence.

3) I was phoning it in, I have to admit. What about it "reeked" exactly?

It's gut-based mostly, but the lateness of the vote definitely stood out.

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I already went round and round on this before, but let me try again. Suppose you are a bulletproof townie. You learn that a vig exists. Should you ask if the vig is a strongman? Since you are bulletproof, whether the vig is strongman or not is IRRELEVANT to you. If he is strongman, then he can shoot you and you die. If he isn't, then he can shoot you and you live. In neither case does your knowing which he is change the outcome. Thus asking for this information cannot help you. Thus all it does is help the scum (by giving them more information about the vig). Thus his question was anti-town.

What is hard to understand about this?

If he claims to be a strongman, then he's more likely to be town since a strongman makes sense in the presence of a town BP. It's still a weird question and arguably anti-town, but his claiming BP doesn't really tie into that (your argument just shows there wasn't any added benefit (apart from the thing I just said).

Allowing the town to vote on the vig/SK kill gives the scum too much of an information advantage. As it stands now, they have to worry about where the kill is going. If they manipulate the kill by voting, then they could mess with it (via some form of scum PR) if its going to target scum, and leave the kill alone if it is targeted at town. Not to mention they are influencing where it goes in the first place. So it isn't a second lynch, it's a second lynch that is less likely to succeed if aimed at scum and more likely to succeed if aimed at town. IT IS BAD!

We already lynched one doc. If a scum RB decides to RB, then we'll know it happened. I'd rather give the target a chance to claim and the investigative role an easier time selecting targets. You're just focusing on the negatives.

Gut is an easy position for scum to fall back to. It can't be disproved.

Gut is also awesome. I'd be more suspicious of myself if I weren't advocating stuff based on my gut.

1) Isn't all scumhunting an appeal to plausibility (e.g., scum are more or less likely to do this or that)?

When I say appeal to plausibility, I'm referring to the conjunction fallacy, mostly. A bunch of plausible statements are still quite unlikely taken together, but they appear quite plausible to humans.

2) How does it use a priori reasoning when all of the analysis involved is deduced from events that have occurred? Where does VC analysis claim anything to be objectively true independent of experiences?

You get your estimates of how many scum are on wagons from a priori reasoning, no?

3) Why does VC analysis intrinsically ignore playstyles? If somebody has a tendency to heavily bus/not bus as scum, then VC analysis could reveal that. Also, if scumhunting-by-playstyle is preferred, where are you doing any of that? Do you even know the playstyles of most of the people in this game? Show me the scum you have caught thus far in this game by doing meta analysis.

I'm sure VC analysis just happened to pick out a wagonhappy trio. Get real. As for me scumhunting by playstyle, my opinion of Twomz would be a definite example; I'm familiar with the playstyles of a good chunk of a game and when I don't, I try to discount my initial impressions somewhat to account for it. I can't show any scum I caught by in it in this game, since I had different reasons to suspect SO and Feysal, sorry; playstyle considerations tend to downgrade tells more often anyway.

So we are going by number of posts and not content? That's convenient, seeing as most of your posts are one or two lines and don't even say anything.

Conciseness is pro-town. I doubt I would've posted substantially more if this was my only game for example.

Just out of interest who would have been good kills nights 1 and 2. I meant to ask this earlier.

Feysal would've been a good kill Night 1 for one.

@CES - So you thought that SO was scum due to the flavor part of his claim over the role part?

Yarr.

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Hey Furry, you seemed to understand the motivations for my SOvotes earlier.

Jump on SO (also first mention) post BP-claim due to flavor.

Explain.

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Why does a strongman vig make more sense when there is a town BP?

For a strongman vigilante to make sense, there needs to be protection for him to bypass (docs don't count since something's going wrong if the doc and vig are targetting the same player) AND the protection has to be meaningful (since otherwise the mod can just remove the protection and the strongman). The existence of a BP townie works for both.

This is fine reasoning. I still don't think it's a good idea, but your position is the first logical one I've heard anyone give for why we should have the vig/SK claim his shots. I still don't know if I like the idea of voting on it. Why couldn't we gain this same benefit by Thad claiming his shot before we finish the lynch? That way the scum don't get to influence where his shot is going?

We could, but I, for one, don't trust him.

ISO 19: "So the case against Feysal is pretty much that he fencesat all day 1, commented that Bowser was 'odder' than SO but neither was scummy (ISO 7) and never laid down a vote on anyone?" This question seems designed to be a weak defense of Feysal. As in: "That's all the case is?"

I agree with you here. Had this written down somewhere myself.

Unvote, vote: Furry

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I'm just going to drop the whole VC analysis discussion since I don't think it'll get us anywhere. I can continue it if people insist, but this shouldn't be a controversial position.

Can you argue against either of these assertions that I made in the VC of Day 1 regarding you is incorrect?

1. That you were on Danakillsu’s wagon to the very end of that wagon.
2. That you were on the Untrod Tripod wagon up until the point where SquareOb became the leading wagon at the end of the Day.
3. That your reasoning for being on the SquareOb wagon was at best weak.

Regardless of you ‘playstyle’ you appear on wagons Day 1 in three different places I consider indicative of possible scum play.

1. Technically true, but meaningless. Daniel voted dana with his last post. I unvoted with my first. There's no way my slot could've unvoted earlier.
2. I haven't gone back, but this one is probably true.
3. Hells no. Weak flavour inconsistent with SK's narrative given only after extensive stalling by a hydra = slamdunk case.

Hindsight is 20/20 isn’t it? Funny you didn’t mention Feysal Day 1 when the question about good Night targets was raised. Yet Day 2 after Spyrex starts the wagon that is 3 votes deep suddenly you ISOed him and decided he was a good target.

That post wasn't wholly serious, just fyi, because, as you say, hindsight is 20/20. But Feysal did only make his scummiest post late Day 1 and frankly, the case against him is just unconvincing without it. It's also not unreasonable to expect ThAd to put more effort into picking a good target than the rest of us. He

could've

noticed Feysal's last post, ISOed him and killed him.

I note with some interest that CES has gone into hibernation since the focus has shifted off him. This may be a function of the Holiday but is mentioning, IMO.

More an issue of erratic sleep patterns combined with being distracted by scumchat. I spent my prime 'scumming hours sleeping the last few days.

Furry, could you respond to my earlier post?

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P.S. People who think Furry is town are probably underestimating Furry.

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Furry, could you respond to my earlier post?

First time I said it as a statement in a little case and it never was responded to. I wanted to make sure that was right so I brought it up again, apparently yes it was.

So what made you post the accusations in #703 (most notably the 2nd and 3rd quote)?

And when you acknowledged my rebuttal of this point (ie. that the flavour was exactly the important point, not some softball) you gave no indication that you were switching back to an old opinion.

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In those quotes you appear to stall a vote multiple times based on flavor. I went around the bush a few times before flat out getting confirmation that it was all based on flavor. Speaking of flavor, what is you thoughts on Twomz claim?

You could've just asked; ignoring it while making a case against me that significantly contributed to the wagon on me is at the very least irresponsible. Twomz' flavour claim strikes me as a slight town tell, but that mostly lies in the "I didn't think I'd be a VT"-line. Nice deflection here.

@ slaxx: what does ijs mean?

Ice. Don't trust Slaxx if he says differently.

So if SquareOb hadn’t been a less than stellar player and had managed to actually come up with a reasonable flavor to back the fake-claim it wouldn’t have been a slam-dunk?

This argument basically ignores all the play I (and others) found scummy which pushed Square to the point of claiming and then frames the slow / bad flavor claim as the main factor for Square’s scumminess. That I disagree with.

I think you're overrating your own case majorly here. Day 1 lynches rarely have as good a justification as SO's flavourfail and this was no exception.

Lots of things could have happened. This argument is predicated on hindsight factors that are impossible to prove. Would you have disagreed that dana wasn’t a good shot going to Night 1 based on his play? In hindsight we all know he was a bad shot but looking at his play I can’t say I think Admiral’s shot was unjustified.

I personally thought dana's play was pretty much par for the course, but that's not particularly relevant here.

I can’t say as I see a laid out case from you as to why Furry is scum. Without that this looks like a little mud-slinging that is tip-toeing around a ‘Too Townie’ argument.

It's not a Too Townie-argument in the slightest - Furry is just good at appearing town as scum (as I'm familiar with - I failed to shoot Furryscum in the final Night of the original Liten game and only pulled out a draw because Furry misjudged me too), so people should hold him to a higher standard.

Using the "its a vig not SK" theory - If the vig shoots by themselves, it is a shot 100% guided by town. If people discuss and vote on it, there is a 100% chance that scum has some bearing over where it goes, even if its not much scum influenced the shot directly.

If we knew ThAd was a vig, this would indeed be an acceptable line of reasoning. This is relevant how?

I'll switch my vote on Wednesday if necessary.

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You didn’t answer the question – Had that claim been made with serviceable flavor would you have considered it a slam-dunk?

No.

I didn’t say it was a Too Townie argument – I said it was tip-toeing around that argument.

I understand your comment as saying it was somehow close to or vaguely related to Too Townie argument and so I said it wasn't anything like Too Townie. If you meant something else, please elaborate.

I absolutely HATE the bolded portion. Hate it. Different standards for play simply furthers the site meta that lazy or bad players shouldn’t bother to improve their play.

I play to win this game, not to improve this site meta. Without different standards you'll never catch players like Furry or Yosarian2 when they're scum and that's a near sure-fire way to lose. I do believe that ceteris paribus it's better to lynch a bad player by the bye but I refuse to let out-of-game considerations affect my play.

Your past experience not-withstanding – aside from the small point you keep going back to regarding Furry’s interaction with you regarding Sqauare’s flavor claim do you have anything that leads you to actually think Furry might be scum?

Gut, his pro-ThAdindependenceness, who he has chosen to go after today and his backing off the SOwagon.

And shouldn’t Furry be much more suspicious of you based on your own logic and the first Liten game?

If that was all Furry had to go on, yes, I suppose. But I remember being rather satisfied with how I played that game as scum in terms of fooling the town; people tend to be suspicious of me most games.

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Then I fail to see how a the flavor claim was the lynchpin of Square’s scumminess.

?¿?

Playing to win has nothing to do with having a stupid double-standard. Your statement that you will NEVER catch any 'Top Flight' player without them is wrong. Glork is one of those players that are considered ‘Gold Standard’ and I found it possible to successfully read him as scum in LOTR Mafia after only 1 Day. Having consistent standards is not a bar to scum-hunting.

You suggested we don't apply double standards to make bad players improve their game; that clearly conflicts with playing to win. And yes, Glrok can be caught Day 1; he's renowned for his scum-hunting skills, not for his ability to hide his alignment. Taking people at face value when you know they're good at fooling at you is just bad play, pure and simple.

And excuse me if I trust implicitly your stance on playing to win given the way Magician Mafia unfolded.

Screw you. I gave the game quite a bit of my time at endgame even if it doesn't necessarily show in my posts; trusting Katsuki's words really wasn't unreasonable.

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Fairly sure it's not HH + APC, Furry.

Hi, camn. We aren't lynching ThAd because he's controllable and he's not a big risk if he's an SK.

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So does this track? A religious Marine?

Uh, yeah. Are you completely unfamiliar with contemporary American culture?

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I haven't got a clue as to where camn got daytalk from.

^^scumposting

I'm going to assume the ^^ means 2 posts up, because you're not making a whole lot of sense otherwise.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Cogito: you are scum.
You are getting vigged tonight.
So just go drink a beer and let us grown folks figure out who your partners are!
I got daytalk from reading the rules. Don't try and act like you don't know about it... noone is falling for that.

If I had a beer for every time someone said something like this to me, I'd have a lot of beers which I'd probably just have to throw away since I don't drink. I missed daytalk the first time around; I guess it wasn't where I'd expect it to be.

If he wanted to defend TWOMZ... Why not just come out and do it?
Why the snark? Why attack my question?

And aside from that, since when is this flavor set in Texas in 2002?
And if it WAS, then show me the god-flavor. That would be an appropriate answer.
Not sarcasm. That is the scum answer

I don't want to defend Twomz. I'm answering your question (not attacking it either, at most I'm making disparaging comments about your familiarity with pop-culture, not something you get lynched over). Snark is fun. And I trust SK not to put anything relevant into the flavour scenes (ie. like Twomz being religious).

P.S. Does it help if I mention I played under the moniker Steam-Powered Shovel in Dirty Dirty South Mafia? I remember ending up as one of your top suspects that game too before I got cleared by investigation.

I remember that game...that did not end prettily...

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SPS

HAI

Hi Slaxx. I'm not an Arkon this time around.

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I don't see the benefit. What does that achieve beyond giving scum the knowledge that a certain someone almost certainly has no useful powers?

P.S.

Vote: Furry

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Well, I'm convinced.

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Would you consider Mod confirmed Town alignment to not be a useful power, assuming ApCakes was in fact a Mason?

Sure, but that assumption is wholly unjustified.

And I persist in my position that I TOTALLY SEE THE VALUE (esPECIALLY if they are unconfirmed)

Then what's holding you back from making an argument to that effect?

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P.S. We shouldn't stop vigging or we'll never get to lynching the good players like Furry and MoI.

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I’m asking – if the Neighbor is in fact Mod-confirmed would you not consider that a useful power when publicly claimed and thus something that could tactically help Town?

Forgot to answer this earlier - yes. That's what my "Sure" was intended to convey.

if Furry and MOI are scum, then they have already won this game. They are as town as the day is long.

Nope. I find them suspicious and I know at least one other person who sees part of what I see.

Stop being paranoid. That was an unusally good scum game from me.

You're not looking as town either, so that's no problem. And unless I'm wrong about whose alt you are, we both know you're plenty good at this.

The recent game was very different then my past CES-scum meta, and matches up closer to his play in this game then the old game.

Is the old game the original Liten? Because I'm not sure why you'd expect my play to be similar to my first game back played under an alt.

Anyone have any feel for what we are looking at? I’d say that the lack of raw power so far in flips pushes me to think 2 or 3 remaining scum over 4.

I tend to think a 4-man scum group here. There isn't enough power to justify 5.

I note of course you don’t say lynching the scummy good players … just the good players.

This is what some others have called coaching. Note he doesn’t suggest Feysal was scummy for fence-sitting and never voting … just that he needs to take a stand.

Now this is why I call scum-posting. Non-committally pushing accusations that have been shown to be wrong. Scum have Daytalk!

Possible veiled apology for bussing hard Day 2?

Do you really think I'd post something like that in-thread? Besides, scum have daytalk.

Well...actually we'll just get to them quicker because scum will either kill them for being town or kill all the other town players and leave us wondering why they are still alive - so.

You go ahead and believe that; no one appears to have mentioned LMP dying before them. I have little faith in town applying that argument correctly.

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Anyway, although I have no clue as to camn's argument for neighbor claiming nor do I particularly expect it to be a good one, I feel claiming here has no real downside and I'm aware of the effect it's had on my posts, specifically when it came to apc and HackerHuck.

So, yeah, I'm a neighbor (Flavour: fuck buddies, pretty much). Katsuki and I got a one-shot recruit which we used Night 1 to add HackerHuck to our perverted pairing.

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Not alignment confirmed.

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Yarr.

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It’s more valid a tell than CES’s “To Good to be Alive” tell he’s been running with. An unconscious omission coming from scum is a tell, BTW.

I haven't been running with that tell. And it's not an omission; it was just implied. That's how I write.

@CES – You know what I see in 1006? Plenty of ‘Player X is good enough to be fooling people but I see through it’ and not much at all of ‘Player X is scum because of Y and Z’. Keep on keeping on with your Appeals to Proficency varient you are going for there.

It's almost as if the content of that post was determined by what I was responding to.

If I was being non-commital I guess I wouldn’t be voting for Hacker, would I? Poor accusation there.

Non-commital can be local as well as global. You wouldn't want to be associated with a discredited accusation, no?

Also, what about Scum having Day-talk automatically eliminates scum from making bad posts like the one I highlighted? Here’s a hint – nothing. I also note that you don’t address that fact that Hacker pointed out two behaviors in Feysal that are indication of scum behavior but didn’t follow-up or challenge him at all. That’s classic soft-distancing between scum.

I was clearly talking about your "coaching" comment here. And I haven't addressed lots of boring stuff. Don't pretend this is special.

Nice exercise in WIFOM .. You'd never do that if I were scum.

Except I'd never expect anyone to think me town over it (nor would anyone else; there's an obvious alignment-neutral explanation for that post). There's literally no scum benefit for it.

Here's another question - if scum Daytalk was so powerful why did Square's flavor claim suck so badly? No-one has explained how that little fact meshes with scum Daytalk being the cure-all for in-thread slips like coaching and what-not.

Probably because it's hard to come up with a good justification for unnightkillability. And you don't accidentally coach.

So your claim has no bearing on your alignment and we should just go by you in-thread behaviour, correct?

Well, you should also go by my in-qt behaviour, but yeah, pretty much.

@HH and CES - Who pushed for the HH addition to the group?

Katsuki suggested HH.

hen you first replaced into this game.. did you think Apathy might be scum? If so (or if not), did Apathy do or say anything in your QT to convince you otherwise?

I've never been suspicious of apathy. I did get a slight pro-town read from her qt posts.

ALso... what made you pick HackerHuck to join your group?

We went for someone who was active, not too high profile and whom we could hopefully get a read on through the qt.

ALSOALSO... were you intentionally avoiding any mention of Apathy or Hacker in this game so far? Or is it coincidence that they are barely mentioned?

It's partially coincidence, but it certainly played a part. Not saying anything is after all the easiest way to not say anything dishonest or misleading while not giving away any role information.

I was a little surprised when he flipped tracker, since I don't see how that role could clear anyone.

Where do you get tracker from?

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@The surviving neighbors - what thoughts/ideas was ApCup tossing around in the QT? I'd like a brief synopsis and whoever does it can be corrected by the other player if they think he missed/left out something.

N1: Suspicion of dana, N2: town read on LMP, MoI is scum (SO interaction, posturing, gut), N3: vague anti-Thor and Furry statement and she didn't like the scum doc-vigilante link thing.

Mass claim is fine by me.

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I have no powers beyond my neighborness.

Furry, go.

P.S. camn, care to explain your "neighbors should claim"-stance now?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

P.S. Not that it matters, but I'm a Morale Operative. Hihi.

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That doesn't ring ingenuine to me. I've had similar thoughts; why is it weird that a neighbor might want to put his role to good use?

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ThAd should vig Furry or MoI.

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Boo.

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Vote: Furry

, still my top suspect. I'll be more active when I get back to civilisation (i.e. Sunday or Monday).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If he had previously prepared a Commuter fake claim, keeping it would be simpler due to needing flavour, Furry. I tend to think the commuter claim is a null tell here.

P.S. I'm back!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Do you think there are 2 scum left, camn?

I don't think chesskid is particularly likely to lose us the game by the bye, do stupid shit, sure, but lose us the game, no.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Well, your percentages earlier already gave an expected 1.4 scum which matches well with 2 scum total since I can easily imagine you thinking the group of {me, Furry, MoI} having an expected 0.6 scum among them. If you think there's one left, like I do, your estimates for likelihood of scumness are way too high.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

And whether Furry is scum. How many expected scum is a whole 'nother story of course (I've got it at about ~0.5).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also, I don't get how CES got a totally free pass. From what I've seen, he lurked until he got called out, dumped a ton of crap, and pretty much went back to lurking.

I find it noteworthy that the whole neighbor thing seems to have slipped your mind since I'd expect scum to be fairly aware of it with HH being recruited by Kats and me and all. Not going to vote AGM.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

what are your thoughts on MoI's tell on AGM (following scumread Chess' plan to vote Thor, who AGM had just gotten done calling town not a few posts prior)

Not convinced; given the caveat he noted that first post and the context of him going along with Chess I think a drive for self-preservation is a satisfactory explanation.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Just fyi, you're misspelling camn, Thor.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why 2 scum left, Furry? Even if we assume SpyreX was a cop, I don't see enough town power to justify a 5 - 13 split.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No offense, but you don't have a reputation.

P.S. Furry, if you're really conflicted, try re-reading your role PM.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Are you still going with the theory that Furry is scum? Don’t you think letting you live so long as presumed Town thanks to your claim makes no sense for him as scum?

The only kill since my claim was on the vigilante.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Victoire!

That was a good game all round. Well-modded too.