Open 480 - C9++ Game Over!

[ac1983fan]

I AM SO TOTALLY SORRY OH MY GOD I THOUGHT I HAD THIS SET UP TO EMAIL ME I AM SO SORRY

[ac1983fan]

Someone's likely to hit scum in RVS. Why not me?

Why you? What makes you so special?

Nope. I have only weak townreads (on you and implosion, for trying to end RVS) at this stage.

I find it highly ridiculous that one would have any read whatsoever on anyone at page 2 of a game.

Are you satisfied with NS's responses?

Not really, but two things. First of all, I've found NS historically difficult to read. Second of all, I found a better reason to vote for someone (namely, you).

If NS plays anything like he used to, then well, I don't think anyone can read him.

My point is that

in this specific situation

, I believe that your prodding at NS is a product of you not wanting to do genuine scumhunting on other people, so that you can keep your vote passively on him.

I came to this conclusion by looking at your prodding and deciding that it didn't look genuine, or that it looked like excuses to not move your vote rather than questions that you sincerely want to know the answers to.

It's as simple as that.

I think this is grasping at straws.

I just read your iso and failed to come up with any kind of reason to vote me.

Would you [like] to provide some reasoning now?

Out of your seven posts, one has content. It consisted of an OMGUS vote that you described as RVS well past RVS (IMO). You've done literally nothing else. I see no reason to move my vote.

hahahahaahahahahaha people still say omgus. ~nothing ever changes, not even this forum~

It's as simple as that.

Okay, I understand your case now. I would simplify it further as "gut". Fair?

Insofar as every case ever made by anyone in the history of the game of mafia can be simplified to "gut," fair.

This; although we can use logical arguments and some info from power roles, ultimately all cases are based on some level of "gut."

my CD vote

I don't think that abbreviation is going to work in this game...

Oh, merde

Monsieur!

Am I the only one now picturing implosion with a top hat and monocle?

Not any more

You "trolled". NS did nothing. How are you drawing an equivalency here?

Because trolling and doing nothing are functionally equivalent? Also, NS ALWAYS does nothing. He's almost as completely useless as I am (almost.)

Ai, sorry for being tardy to the party, full time jobs and time zones will do that sort of thing.

You! I remember you. You play good.

Hang on, why FOS instead of putting you're vote there? In fact, why would you not, unless you're actually worried about a wagon forming and not wanting to vote your scum buddy

VOTE: : pieceofpecanpie

calm your horses bro

Here he is voting me for "busing" NS:

bussing

I would write my post now, but my computer won't charge, so I'm saving the battery for more important things... no offense to you guys.
In other words, I'm stuck to phone posting.

Posting from phones is, while not simple, possible, and if one is town one should be willing to deal with the frustration (I have)

Okay implosion, explain how it makes sense. Since I've overreacted to SafetyDance then you must be with him all the way on his logic

Absolutely not. You can overreact to a completely terrible case. Me saying you overreacted has absolutely no bearing on my opinion of the case in question. I

haven't actually read safetydance

and i'm busy at the moment but i'll read him later.

(emphasis mine)
what

Everyone if safety flips scum I'd look to implosion as a partner.

what

I think (which is why I mentioned it) that FOS are weak excuses from players who don't wish to vote but want to appear like they are scum-hunting to throw fake reads out there. As town, you're only ability in this game is to vote, so no, I don't see any town-motivation to not vote someone. Especially this early in the game.

Dumb. Voting is the only power the town has - but with great power comes great responsibility. And sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. And I think this is the start of a beautiful friendship.
(Seriously though conservative voting is a completely legitimate playstyle which I myself use; I prefer to

ask questions

let the smart people ask questions first; shoot later.)

This may be premature, but it seems to me that Cub and Zaicon are the same alignment. I'm much less willing to lump SafetyDance into that grouping, but it's possible.

premature and foolish

This may be premature, but it seems to me that Cub and Zaicon are the same alignment. I'm much less willing to lump SafetyDance into that grouping, but it's possible.

And what makes you say that?

And like that...

[imgIMAGEREMOVEDBECAUSEREASONS/img]

..he's gone

You gave him six hours bro.

ac, anything you wanna say? I don't see you reading the thread right now...

Maybe you should give me a couple of gosh darn minutes to go through the 7 pages??

Anyway yeah skimmed and these are just my initial reactions. Gonna try to fix my email settings now.

[ac1983fan]

Apozzle:

What I want to say right now is that, given that I posted almost immediately at the start of the game and have only made one post since, I feel as if people should have started questioning my status sooner. I would have thought my lurkerness would make me a pretty questionable character (at least to some of you). It looks to me like there is some frownable tunneling going on here.

Expecting to be found scummy and pointing that out? Sounds kind of scummy.
Belsarius: you're hilarious but you're active lurking worse than NS. Also why did you draw attention to something by NS and then go "but we shouldn't talk about it"?? That's anti-town. Either keep it to yourself if you think we shouldn't discuss it atm, or discuss it fully.
CD: You're a cheery dog
CD: Don't like the dismissing of the case against you as gut.

Someone's likely to hit scum in RVS. Why not me?

Why you? What makes you so special?

I'm special because I'm the only one who gets a question from you that doesn't sound rhetorical.

That quote specifically means I'm

not

special, but I'm just as likely as anyone else to have hit scum on RVS, so there's no reason I should have arbitrarily moved my vote if I was unsatisfied by NS's responses just because it was an RVS vote.

it was rhetorical
(but I'm glad I could make you feel special wuw)
Edo:

ac, anything you wanna say? I don't see you reading the thread right now...

I think my online status might be hidden by default?? I'm not sure. I don't like creepers creepin'
Gamma: Clearly scum he's claimed and everything let's lynch him guys
goodmorning: Why are you voting NS? You've expressed no suspicion of him so far that I've read.

Yeah, it's that ac1983 fan who has yet to post.

THERE IS
NO
SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE

in my username
implosion: Seems like you're throwing around suspicion at anything that sticks. or you're just really eager. I don't know. I don't like the smell of what you're cooking though (some of it smells OK I guess)
Messiah: In your one post you jump on the most recent wagon. You didn't add anything else nor say anything else about anyone else, which makes it seem like you just went to the most recent posts and tried to do something which made you look like you knew what was going on when you didn't really give two shits.
NS: Idgaf 'bout you.
POPP: - OH WE WERE MAFIA TOGETHER IN THAT GAME I GOT REPLACED IN WHEN I WAS HAVING A SHITTY TIME LAST SPRING sorry dude I really beat the big one that game glad Junpei and you were able to pull the win on that. I would have finished though if the mod would have responded to the PM I sent him :/
SafetyDance: You need to stop using that eye-rolling icon it is very annoying also you are making ridiculous cases.
Zaicon: Could you elaborate on what you "don't like" about POPP's reaction to SD? That's pretty fookin' vague.

If NS plays anything like he used to, then well, I don't think anyone can read him.

I'm getting this same message from a lot of people.

So what's the plan, then, folks who are saying this? Lay off him until...? Sounds like just the kind of player to pressure early so we don't get screwed in LYLO.

We could just lynch him now but I think that's technically anti-town and what not. But I think his play is generally anti-town. (but well my play is generally anti-town BUT I TRY DAMMIT I TRY SO HARD *sobs in corner*)

[ac1983fan]

CD: You're a cheery dog

Is the the only thing you have to say about me? I feel left out.
(and this looks like it might be as bad as when I played with cooldog, weirdly my other game with Cub wasn't like it though, probably because he replaced in)

interestingly enough I was going to say you were a cool dawg at first

[ac1983fan]

bussing

I wasn't going to say anything, but unless we're talking about an archaic word for kissing (kiss of death?) or perhaps a shortened version of shooting someone with a short-range scattershot musket (blunderbussing) rather than throwing under the bus, it should be busing, but I guess I can keep my pedantry in check if that's how it's spelled in the MafiaScum vernacular...

i don't pronounce bussing the same as i do abusing, so i prefer the second s, while technically both are correct acc. to dictionary.com
but idgaf really i just think bussing matches the sound better and looks nicer

[ac1983fan]

@ac: See my response to Zai in 137 for my reasons to vote NS.
Space was a typo.

Those aren't reasons; what you have there are just a bunch of links to his posts and saying "I don't like these." You're also still voting NS and haven't really engaged any of the other wagons/cases other than to say "meh I think they're meh."

vote:belisarius

As mentioned before he's active lurking worse than NS and I don't like the fact that several of his posts of contribution have been rather anti-town.

[ac1983fan]

Agreed I've been active lurking pretty bad, for lack of any scumreads that aren't weaker than American beer so far. The "put a lot of lead in the air and see what sticks" technique doesn't work very well for me.

Any that do?

Still don't like the NS wagon; the case on him amounts to "Kill him because META!" It's unalloyed WIFOM.

It's not really WIFOM so much as "fuck it, I don't want to deal with this shit so let's just lynch him" which is...not technically pro-town but I'd argue potentially town-positive.

[ac1983fan]

Still don't like the NS wagon; the case on him amounts to "Kill him because META!" It's unalloyed WIFOM.

I thought that was the reason why some people

weren't

voting him.

I read the case on NS as "He has a meta for lurking and being unhelpful, so surely we should policy lynch him on D1" which strikes me as a

horrible

idea. Based on zero other evidence, he is statistically more likely to be town-aligned than scum or SK,

which means his vote will be used for town-aligned reasons

. We might

need

that vote. Secondly, what will a policy lynch on D1 accomplish except to make us go into D2 knowing as little as possible? It'll be D1 all over again. When is lynching someone based

purely

on their meta

ever

a good idea?

Emphasis mine.
I don't think you can draw that conclusion from the premises. Players don't always play in the best interests of their win condition.

Agreed I've been active lurking pretty bad, for lack of any scumreads that aren't weaker than American beer so far. The "put a lot of lead in the air and see what sticks" technique doesn't work very well for me.

Any that do?

Yes. Townhunting/PoE, eliminating useless lynches like NS's, and one other trick that won't work if I come right out and say what it is.

Townhunting? is that seriously a thing now?

Also, I didn't say I might be sheeping, I said I

was

sheeping but I wasn't sure who. That really should have drawn more fire, people.

ok

GM's reasons for voting NS seem relative - I can see why you would have those reasons, but I don't really feel them myself. Except for the active lurking. That is blatant. And my vote isn't doing anything else right now, so maybe it can give NS some attention.

Vote: NS

" NS is an easy lynch so vote but I'll act like I don't agree with the reasons to distance myself from the wagon later"

If NS plays anything like he used to, then well, I don't think anyone can read him.

I'm getting this same message from a lot of people.

So what's the plan, then, folks who are saying this? Lay off him until...? Sounds like just the kind of player to pressure early so we don't get screwed in LYLO.

I don't usually get much of substance done during Day One. I get better on Day Two, after a couple flips.

lies

[ac1983fan]

I'm not sure what kind of arcane ritual you gentlemen employed to read that message from what I said, but I can assure you that anything you heard was almost certainly just the wind.

It's the arcane ritual of being analytical
It's understandable that you haven't heard of it - it's not in the standard Pathfinder spell set and even when GM's add it to the game it can only be learnt from scrolls.

[ac1983fan]

Sorry. These have been busy days, and I'll try to post something comprehensive but not wall-ish today.

Nothing wrong with a good ol' wall of text though.

[ac1983fan]

unvote

Tch. NS is an easy vote? Not really. The meta argument makes it significantly harder to lynch him

It's a vote which you are unlikely to be critisized for making on day one because of NS's meta, and yet you've intentionally distanced yourself from your own vote, which makes you look paranoid.

DayVigging =/= Voting. I don't like FOS, I think it was bad, I wanted to put pressure on (and it got a reaction) for not voting, I did the only thing in my power to do so.

Obviously a single vote doesn't cause a lynch, but there is still nothing wrong with not voting until you have a high certainty level. Sure, pressure votes are fine but conservative voting is not a scumtell.

Post 268 makes SafetyDance look rather scum-like.

Deadline: Saturday, March 9th 1:00am EST

That's only four and a half days from now. Let's pick up the pace, kiddies.

And we shouldn't lynch until at least 24 hours before that. We need to use our time wisely.

Also Apozzle has so far only 1) voted for NS while 2) scummily distancing himself from his vote and has 3) hardly yet said anything that wasn't a defense of himself which leads me to
VOTE: Apozzle

[ac1983fan]

Hey all - 12 pages in an Open? Sounds boring.

Who should I be sheeping?

u wanna die punk

[ac1983fan]

An actual answer would be appreciated far more than a silly threat.

It was a joke, as I was assuming your post was a joke. Are you indicating you were being serious, or this just a continuation of the joke?

[ac1983fan]

Welcome HD. You already have a higher post count than your predecessor. Good job. I can tell we are going to be friends.

Wow, good job ignoring questions asked directly of you

Apozzle, do you have any thoughts yet on ac983fan, Belisarius, or Zaicon?

[ac1983fan]

Post 268 makes SafetyDance look rather scum-like.

What? 268 is Cub's post, not Safety's. How can you infer Safety's alignment from Cub's post?

The argument CD made about SD; CD pulled out some good points/observations

An actual answer would be appreciated far more than a silly threat.

It was a joke, as I was assuming your post was a joke. Are you indicating you were being serious, or this just a continuation of the joke?

I was being completely serious.

well this may be a problem but I'll just assume you have some ~quirky personality~ that allows you to openly and seriously sheep people without it being scummy

DayVigging =/= Voting. I don't like FOS, I think it was bad, I wanted to put pressure on (and it got a reaction) for not voting, I did the only thing in my power to do so.

Obviously a single vote doesn't cause a lynch, but there is still nothing wrong with not voting until you have a high certainty level. Sure, pressure votes are fine but conservative voting is not a scumtell.

Did you read the first part? FOS =/= conservative voting.

I

think its a rather scummy thing to do, right HD?

Well, fos's would be a part of a conservative voter's repertoire. but yeah fos's are also a legitimate technique and not a scumtell, and I don't know where you got the impression that they weren't (unless, of course, the site's meta has changed in the last year). If you find someone suspicious but not sufficiently enough to vote them or you eyes are elsewhere you fos.

An actual answer would be appreciated far more than a silly threat.

It was a joke, as I was assuming your post was a joke. Are you indicating you were being serious, or this just a continuation of the joke?

Remind me not to call you when I next need a comedian.

u wanna die punk

[ac1983fan]

unvote

Vote: ac1983fan

A whole lotta banging on the keyboard and almost no substance. Amazing, really.

[ac1983fan]

Alright, so I've been semi-lurking the last few days because of midterms and I worked long shifts this weekend; even though I've been reading my brain has basically been too dead to analyze things carefully. If I can finish my last project and homework today sometime before 4 I should be able to reread this afternoon. I don't think I have much reason to change my vote from Apozzle at this time however.

[ac1983fan]

Preparing reads on everyone atm but given the claims I will

unvote

for the moment and reVOTE: Belisarius since he was scummy earlier on in the day and has vote hopped from wagon to wagon w/o really ccontributing anything new (I know pot kettle)

[ac1983fan]

Apozzle & Cub Daigoro: They are basically good. Two scum claiming masons in a game like this is far too risky; they don't know that there might not be another mason etc and they wouldn't risk outing between 67 and 100% of their scumteam at once. (It's still technically possible but even though I found Apozzle quite scummy I don't doubt the claims).

Nobody Special:
*sigh*

implosion:
I get a lot of mixed reads on this dude

goodmorning:
#420 is very AtEish, and given GM's overall behavior during the game pretty sure she's just frustrated town

Edosurist:
So, let me get this straight: you mention/talk to Apozzle all of twice and then suddenly he's your second-highest scumpick? (in re:388) and you jump on the Goodmorning wagon just as its beginning to gain speed. IGMEOY

SafetyDance:
Needs more investigation during the night phase

pieceofpecanpie:
You know, I wasn't originally too concered with Susan's behavior because it felt similar to his behavior in the last game I played with him ~ a year ago. Then I remembered...We were both scum in that game. (I haven't looked up his meta tho so take that with a grain of salt but he's starting to ping my scumdar I suppose)

Belisarius:
I think my vote on him explains my feelings very well

Messiah/Human Destroyer:
Messiah's one post was an out-of-nowhere jump onto the SD wagon that was forming on that time. HD has contributed next to nothing other than some tunelling of Apozzle. Pretty scummy.

Cheery Dog:
Gut town
--

ac1983 fan

Allow me to direct you to this post; please peruse the latter half.

@GM Re: popp's small townread count
popp's probably just scumhunting, not townhunting <glances at ac>

?

I'm currently in catchup mode in a few other games and I haven't gotten to this one yet sooooo.

Thanks for replacing into a game and then not contributing. It's really useful.
--

I don't want to lynch GM. Can we switch to Beli, Nobody Special, or HD? Probably don't have enough time -_-

[ac1983fan]

...Yeah 30 minutes to deadline. Ugh :/

[ac1983fan]

? I haven't seen you actively scumhunt all day.

Every game, I always hear this and I never understand
Like okay I understand I suck at mafia I really do like no one needs to tell me twice
And I did somehow not receive any emails about this thread for the first week of the day and was pretty much only half-here during the last week of the day
But like alright when people accuse me of not scumhunting I don't understand?? Like I ask people questions, read/analyze their posts, etc. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do?
And I know sometimes my posts can veer off topic but that's because I'm merely trying to have some fun with the game since I know I suck at it anyway (but I am trying and I do try hard as established by like my second post)
But yeah, I do scumhunt and I don't understand how to scumhunt other than what I do, also the fact that you're "pinging my scumdar" basically means I have a gut scum read on you and one does not need to scumhunt to have a gut read (nor to be convinced by other people's cases).
--
I'm really disappointed in the GM lynch though I suppose it was inevitable especially since I didn't manage to get around until the very end of the day - really dropped the ball on that. But her flip I think has the potential to give us a lot of good info (even though I'm like 60% sure she'll flip vt)

[ac1983fan]

So now we have confirmed town mason Apozzle.
I think Belisarius and Edosourist are both scum. Notice how Edo is always the third or fourth vote on a popular wagon, and never really moves or targets anyone else. Beli i find supiscious for the same reasons I did yesterday.
VOTE: Belisarius

[ac1983fan]

@ac1983fan: I would like to see an explanation of your reads, not just a sentence-summary with no explanation.

I'll be honest, my reads in this game are almost always 90% gut because I kind of, frankly, am one of the worst mafia players ever.

- His AtE in #526 right before the flip felt forced

See, you can call it an Appeal to Emotion if you want, but I could find other instances of me giving similar explanations in prior games; it's not AtE it's just my response to that standard remark about my play.
The thing I don't get Pie, is why it seems that each successive person that you find suspicious has found you suspicious first.

--
I just got a chance to peruse my notes and remembered something that sprung up to me: implosion's #505 seems very distancy; he indicates a willingness to hammer a player he believes to be town in order to be certain that there is a lynch on that day; while this def. could be motivated by pro-town thinking, the tone of that post combined with his "*sigh*" at the hammer draws my attention.

--
Right, so Belisarius. I've explained why I've been voting him several times throughout this game (and though I would be willing to switch to Edo) but I'll go through him and the reasons I suspect him again:
He does nothing but derp around from ISO 1 to ISO 9, then suddenly in ISO 10 votes SafetyDance, following Messiah and Cub as the third vote on a wagon, openly stating that he is sheeping them. Then in ISO 11 he makes some mysterious claims about some of NS's behavior in this game, but refues to divulge what he is saying (so in other words openly withholding information). he then later claims in ISO 13 that if he's right he "shouldn't be mentioning it at all"...So then why is he mentioning it at all?
Then in ISO 14 he responds to my claim that he has been active lurking with a resounding "Yup," saying that the reason he's been active lurking is because he doesn't have any good scumreads (but isn't that a Cartesian circle? I must lurk until I have good scumreads, but if I lurk I won't get good scumreads)
He then proceeds to tunnel SD for a bit (not exactly a scumtell) until he suddenly hops on the Apozzle wagon once it's gotten quite a bit of steam (putting him at L-2). Although he previously does mention some suspicion of Apozzle, he never gives any reasons why (which actually seemed to slip under my/the town's collective radar the first time). I suppose some of this could be chalked up to playstyle, but his play is definitely anti-town at best and scumtastic at worst.

--
Edosurist I'll admit I've only mentioned briefly in passing a few times before, but I think his scumminess is almost entirely based on his voting history and post #388. His only votes are on SafetyDance and goodmorning, both at times when they were popular wagons. Then in post #388 he posts a list of reads in order of scumminess; Apozzle places second on his list (also I am just now noticing that he GOT MY USERNAME WRONG ARE YOU ALL TRYING TO GET ME TO REACT DO U THINK THIS IS FUNNY PUNKS) despite infrequent mentions of him previously; at the time he was the other popular lynch candidate alongside goodmorning.

There, is that a thorough enough explanation @Zaicon? Like I said, mostly just gut/I kind of suck but I try.

[ac1983fan]

Also, ac, sorry about getting your name wrong, but I don't see a reason to get so fussy about it...

It's nothing personal
honestly I'm just trying to be as ridiculous as possible because if nothing else I want people to be entertained by me

[ac1983fan]

@ac
That was supposed to reference 398... lol

My bad Mr. E

[ac1983fan]

So no, I'm not saying someone is against transparency itself, but prior to my post, 100% of commenters were against the

source

of that transparency.

Although really, I was expecting to be the

first

to defend HD's action here, not the

only

one.

The reason why nobody is defending him is because it's deliberately unhelpful to just go throw every single post and respond to every single post.
Catch-up walls are fine. Responding to literally every single post that is made is not. He'll likely never catch up; that's unhelpful.

[ac1983fan]

And, ac1983fan..... overreact much?

Overreact how? I merely explained why HD's method of catching up is unhelpful.

[ac1983fan]

And, ac1983fan..... overreact much?

Overreact how? I merely explained why HD's method of catching up is unhelpful.

He did not post

literally every single post.

You're correct, not literally every single post, but he did post something about approx. 90% (I could do the math but too lazy)
Like, in post #553 he covers posts 25-48, skipping only 30, 33, 41, and 46.

[ac1983fan]

YOU COULD IGNORE THEM IF YOU CHOSE

Why are you getting so mad about this?
I am skimming them, but my point is merely that they are not as helpful as they might seem; it's more anti-town then it is scummy but still.

[ac1983fan]

unvote

I think Beli's reaction to Cheery Dog, while definitely a misguided overreaction, is not something that makes sense coming from scum. That's not a scumslip as far as I can see Beli - the sentence is just a mishmash of gobledeegook that happens when you write and rewrite posts without rereading before posting.
I'm also feeling unsure in my suspicion of Edos, although I'm not sure why. But I think I withhold a vote for now.

[ac1983fan]

@ac Can you elaborate on your new non-scumread on Beli that sort've appeared out of the blue? Especially since you've persistently voted for him the whole game.
To me, it makes perfect sense coming from scum. In fact, I count two tells in the interaction.
1. He voted on impulse with a weak and flawed argument
2. He now refuses to unvote, despite him being corrected
He's trying to stand firm to justify himself right now, and he's grasping onto that straw.

See, scum don't generally like attention. Scum need to be cold and calculating; but Beli is not being cold and calculating.
So, he's either really BAD at being scum (possible, admittedly) or he's town.
Another thing which makes me a tad nervous is that my other highest scumpick is pushing for his lynch pretty hard at this point; it could be bussing I suppose but it's more likely that there's something wrong with my reasoning.

[ac1983fan]

EBWOP: Guess spoiler tags don't work the same here as on EoFF. My whole post looks like refried ass.

@mod: Can you remove the spoiler tags from #596 please?

You need to do

Code: Select all

[spoiler=]like this[/spoiler]

to get it

Spoiler:

like this

I made the same mistake in one of my more recent games.

[ac1983fan]

implosion and SafetyDance are scum together. I can almost guarantee it.

Have you heard of Bayes' theorem?

I'm not sure how P(A|B) = P(B|A)P(A)/P(B) is relevant to this situation.

[ac1983fan]

Oh, you want to see if I

can

. Why would that be? Because you need the confirmed town to fail to do so in order to lend you credibility?

3 reasons. Let's see if you can figure out what they are.

Belisarius what the hell are you doing.

[ac1983fan]

VOTE: edosurist
Nothing I've seen from him today has really changed what I've thought about him.
I still think Beli is town but i think he's being completely ridiculous. Maybe upon reread I'll swing back too seeing him as scum...Dunno, his behavior really seems to go to both extremes a lot of the time

[ac1983fan]

VOTE: edosurist
Nothing I've seen from him today has really changed what I've thought about him.
I still think Beli is town but i think he's being completely ridiculous. Maybe upon reread I'll swing back too seeing him as scum...Dunno, his behavior really seems to go to both extremes a lot of the time

Do you think a Safety/Edosurist team is anywhere near likely?

Honestly I can barely understand half of Safety's posts; I'm not sure why. I need to reread him. So it's possible but I don't have any read on him at this time.

[ac1983fan]

Vote: ac1983fan

Hold up
He's voting me not you
Who gave you permission to sassily react to NS's vote on me?

Seriously though NS could you give some reasoning? Or is it the same as previous?

[ac1983fan]

Wow, nice OMGUS.

It's not OMGUS unless that is literally the only reason provided for a vote. His reasons for voting you seemingly have nothing to do with your vote on him, other than the fact that your vote seems to just be uninformed sheeping.

[ac1983fan]

ac1983fan: Same as before.

Well, *I* think I get better. YMMV.

So you think you get better by Day 2, yet your suspicions haven't seemingly changed at all, and you've contributed potentially even less today than you did yesterday? Okee dokee.

[ac1983fan]

Hmph.

I'm sick and tired of this. VOTE: Nobody Special
Also holy cow I didn't realize I had missed so many pages of stuff. I had an idea in my head I had been melling on:

Votecount #17

Edosurist (3) Zaicon, implosion, ac1983fan
Belisarius (2) Edosurist, Cheery Dog
SafetyDance (2) pieceofpecanpie, Human Destroyer
Human Destroyer(2) SafetyDance, Apozzle

Since we basically had four wagons, I think it's logical to think that at least one of them was on scum (since they were all stalling / also statistically speaking about 1/4th of the players will be scum anyway).

Apozzle, can you give reads on everyone soon?

[ac1983fan]

ac1983 fan

What was up with suggesting other lynches with less than an hour to go day one? That seems completely forced to me, particularly considering how often we were discussing how little time there was left. He also started in with this "worst at mafia" bit today.

Goodmorning seemed way to town to me, I wasn't sure exactly how much time was left in day one when i made that post. Also I mean can't I acknowledge my poor play? Like you can check out these other posts where I also acknowledged my poor play in other games. I honestly have no idea what I'm doing as scum or town and I do try and occasionally I have fun but mostly I just suck and suck s'more.

--
I think I'll go back on VOTE: Edosurist until a better option presents itself in my mind. I am very highly certain that my hypothesis in my prior post about at LEAST one of Edosurist, Belisarius, SafetyDance, and Human Destroyer is scum. HD could be a good second choice from that group however.

[ac1983fan]

Also I mean can't I acknowledge my poor play? Like you can check out these other posts where I also acknowledged my poor play in other games. I honestly have no idea what I'm doing as scum or town and I do try and occasionally I have fun but mostly I just suck and suck s'more.

Methinks I liked thee better when thou wert trying to kill me.

This really is appeal to failure

I'm not appealing to anything. Apozzle is arguing that I am scummy because I acknowledge my inability to play this game well (as either scum or town mind you); I'm simply providing references that show that I acknowledge my poor play regardless of my alignment - that is, poor play and my acknowledgement thereof is a nulltell for moi.

[ac1983fan]

EBWOP: Also, allow me to submit this post from Open 411 in-game; I got rather upset when chamber called me a terrible player especially since I had been attempting to be at least a decent player during that game. Granted these were all six months ago and me acknowledging my poor play doesn't excuse it, but I'm just saying that it's not a scumtell for me to say so.

[ac1983fan]

You're useless but you're not going to replace out too are you?

Would you consider moving your vote to HD now? Beli doesn't want to lynch Edo, but isn't against a HD lynch.

The only way I'm ever going to get any better is by actually trying, right?

And it doesn't really matter to me what Beli wants? Just because I think he's likely town doesn't mean I'm going to follow his reasoning, but I'd be more than happy to switch to Human Destroyer if the deadline approaches and we're in danger of a no lynch.

[ac1983fan]

That'd be the point seeing as we still have 6 wagons and deadline is now n-days away. (can happen anytime)

Presumably the mod would give us a minimum of 24 hours notice once the deadline is unsuspended.
Your point is taken; however, it should be noted that I am currently voting for the "strongest" wagon, and that our town clear as well as POPC and Beli haven't voted.

[ac1983fan]

Could someone give me the rundown on why Edosurist/Belisarius are scum (or at the very least link to a post explaining it)?

This totally has nothing to do with me trying to avoid a no lynch

Or it's you trying to avoid your own lynch.

And ffs, why are people here happy with going towards a NL? This is |________________________________________________________| this much worse than lynching a PR.

No, lynching a town PR is FAR worse than a no lynch.

Disagree; sure, power roles are valuable but excellent Vanilla townies and the information provided by lynches is much more valuable.

I think I'm going to move to HD now, based on my prior thoughts about him and the fact that he's generally not tried to be useful.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Human Destroyer

[ac1983fan]

I'm not a VT, I'm a 1-shot Vigilante

Please don't take this with offense, but if you are telling the truth (which is possible though I'm unsure), that honestly doesn't make me want to lynch any less. I don't really trust a player with your playstyle with that kind of power (I wouldn't trust a player with MY playstyle with that kind of power either though).

[ac1983fan]

What, you mean the sheeping part?

I wouldn't base a vig shot on something like that.

I mean all of it. Every aspect of your play. Like you just seem like you are all over the place, barely even seems like you're trying.

[ac1983fan]

Alright, I might not get a chance to post in here before deadline depending on how busy it gets at work (and it is Friday night) so I'm just going to go ahead and claim now: I am the Town Cop. I investigated SafetyDance N1 and he came up inno.

OI GUYS
WHY DID WE NOT JUST STICK WITH HD

[ac1983fan]

OK can we lynch Edosurist now then instead? Lest he claim a PR -____________________________-
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Edosurist

[ac1983fan]

Seriously, out of all of them he's been missing for most of the Day. He's a pretty worthless lynch. I also don't know where the "Edo is scummy" idea is coming from. Where are these cases?

I made mine way back when I started the day...Then his behavior didn't change much; plus I stand by the theory that the four stalled wagons indicated at least one of them was scum. Also, didn't you JUST SAY you'd be willing to lynch him?
Honestly this jumping from person to person is being way unhelpful for us. We've possibly outed a majority of our pro-town power roles (assuming none of the claims are fakeclaims) and I would have liked to lynch Edos from the beginning but it looked like people were shifting to HD so I switched to him. I don't understand why we didn't just stick to lynching HD (or even NS...really a less than fabulous player with a PR is still a less than fabulous player).

[ac1983fan]

Seriously, out of all of them he's been missing for most of the Day. He's a pretty worthless lynch. I also don't know where the "Edo is scummy" idea is coming from. Where are these cases?

I made mine way back when I started the day...Then his behavior didn't change much; plus I stand by the theory that the four stalled wagons indicated at least one of them was scum. Also, didn't you JUST SAY you'd be willing to lynch him?

Did you even read my #897?

Yeah, I did. You put Edos in your list of players we

can

lynch. that indicates a willingness to lynch him, does it not?

[ac1983fan]

Or try actually

reading

my #897... Seriously, why do I bother putting effort into posts?

I did actually read your post. I know what was said but my point still stands...You clearly stated you'd be willing to lynch Edos. Like no matter what else you said in the post, the thing I said you said, you did say. Therefore I don't understand why you're arguing with me.

[ac1983fan]

Time to summarise:

Players I

don't

want to lynch:

[NOT EDOSURIST]

Players that

can

be lynched:

[VARIOUS, INCLUDING EDOSURIST]

[ac1983fan]

Yeah, i understand that you have a slight town read on Edos but it doesn't change the fact that he is clearly in your list of options for lynches; he may not be your first option but that's not my point and has never been my point.

[ac1983fan]

You clearly stated you'd be willing to lynch Edos.

No. He said Edos was one of the players who can be lynched - as opposed to the claimed power roles + Beli's inno. He did NOT say that he

personally

was willing to lynch Edos.

He said he'd prefer not to - that indicates some willingness.

[ac1983fan]

I'd like to see a massclaim tomorrow. If we're lucky, it could tell us a little about who's telling the truth and/or lying. Opinions?

If we have a doc, protect Beli. Period.

If we have a one-shot cop, investigate tonight.
Beli should let us know who he's investigating tonight, so that the one-shot cop (if we have one) can investigate someone different.

Nobody Special should block one of the non-claims, but not say which one he's blocking until tomorrow.

Who died and appointed you queen of the universe?

[ac1983fan]

VOTE: PeaceOfPecanPie
This might seem out there, but notice how he was one of the few defenders of Edos towards the end of the last day. Additionally, he's been very jumpy the whole game but especially day two...he was on nearly every wagon that led to a claim EXCEPT the Edos wagon, which turned out to be scum.

Also, we discussed a massclaim yesterday. Is that happening or?

[ac1983fan]

That makes Susan confirmed Town (unless NS or Beli is lying).

By what logic? There are almost certainly two mafiosos left...PoPC could have been the scum who didn't submit any night actions.

[ac1983fan]

(Sorry about the double post)

Ac can be town forever for helping me get that wagon started. I see no incentive for him to bus there.

Helping you get that wagon started? I had been pushing for an Edos lynch mostly the entire day before you were even a player in the game. There was no intent to help you do anything.

[ac1983fan]

UNVOTE:

Beli is not claiming RB

I know but my point is NS could've roleblocked the Mafia RBer and it would've had no effect

There's nothing in the Roleblocker role PM which indicates this.

That makes Susan confirmed Town (unless NS or Beli is lying).

By what logic? There are almost certainly two mafiosos left...PoPC could have been the scum who didn't submit any night actions.

Nope. According to the wiki page linked in one of the mod's opening posts, the Mafia Roleblocker is not allowed to block and kill in the same night.

With that being said, I think i see your logic now...I think what we actually have is one of the following situations:
1) Beli, Nobody Special, and POPC are all town
2) Two of POPC, Beli, and Nobody Special are scum.

Now, if the case is 1, and making the assumption that HD was being truthful, that means we drew MMCCVB?. If the ? is a T, then there would be a serial killer present; but this is unlikely, seeing as we have had two consecutive nights with only one nightkill (and the claimed blocker claimed to not have used his action N1). So the ? would almost certainly be another non-T; which means that, if 1 is true and HD is being truthful, there needs to be at least one other power role out there. Alternatively, 1 could be true but HD could be scum, which would give us MMCCBTT, which is consistent with all flips so far.
On the other hand, if 2 is true, then HD must be being truthful as there are no more slots for scum. So, assuming there is not a serial killer because a preponderance of the evidence points to that conclusion) our draws would have to be either MMVTTCC (assuming Beli is the truther); MMVTTB? (assuming NS is truth-telling); or one of MMVTT?? or MMV???? (? is non-T).
Now my logic could be erroneous and the assumption that there is no SK MIGHT be unfounded...But I think 1 is fairly likely to be true; I also think that if 2 is true, then Beli is probably the truth-teller of the group.

With that being said...An easy way to check this situation is to lynch one of POPC, Beli, and NS; of the three NS is the "lynch of least resistance" because he has seemingly not really been trying at all - but I don't know that that is the "best use" of a day.

I'm not sure how to proceed, frankly.

[ac1983fan]

There's nothing in the Roleblocker role PM which indicates this.

Natural Action Resolution dictates it I think.

I might be wrong on my interpretation of it though.

I don't see anything in Natural Action Resolution nor the Roleblocker wiki page which indicates this.
In fact, according to the wiki...

Suppose Roleblocker A blocks Roleblocker B, who blocks Roleblocker C, who blocks Roleblocker D, who blocks Doctor E. If Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized, A blocks B, preventing B from blocking C, thus C blocks D, preventing D from blocking the Doctor - in short, the Doctor's protection would have an effect. If all Roleblocks are simultaneous, the only player who is NOT technically Roleblocked is A; the Doctor would be blocked.

And ordinarily, "The prevailing opinion is that Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized." Although apparently there is an alternative where everyone targeted by a roleblocker is roleblocked, which would mean that a town roleblocker roleblocking a mafia roleblocker would do essentially nothing...but that doesn't seem to be the preferred resolution.

[ac1983fan]

Vanilla Townie as well.

[ac1983fan]

I just found this reading back through my votechart.

VOTE:

edosurist

Nothing I've seen from him today has really changed what I've thought about him.

Vote: ac1983fan

NS votes AC right after AC joins the Edos wagon, with no reasoning given.

Yeah, but when I asked him later he said it was for the same reasons that he voted me yesterday. Which was pretty flimsy reasoning anyway.

Also hey, wait a second...Other than hopping on the Apozzle and Goodmorning wagons D1, the only person you've voted for all game has been me. yet last night you blocked POPC?

VOTE: Nobody Special

[ac1983fan]

Right, so given SD!scum would have 0 motivation to do that (other than possibly a very poorly thought on gambit) I'm willing to hammer Susan if there's no serious objection within, say, 24 hours? Unless someone else does it first. Heh.

[ac1983fan]

SAFETY THAT WAS LITERALLY THE WORST GAMBIT
ALSO CHEERY BELI GET OFF OF NO LYNCH WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS DOING
EVEN IF THAT TURNS OUT TO BE THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION FOR TODAY WE STILL NEED TO USE TODAY TO GET AS MUCH INFO AS WE CAN OTHERWISE WE LOST
SERIOUSLY SAFETY WHAT THE HELL WE WERE IN SUCH A DAMN GOOD POSITION AND THEN YOU FAKED A RESULT WHAT WERE YOU EVEN THINKING
WHAT
WERE
YOU
EVEN
THINKING

ldhgldfh
I can't with this game
I am so frustrated with all of you right now
I just can't I really just can't

OK
SO

WHAT WE KNOW FROM THE FLIPS:
MMCB???
Which has at a minimum one more non-T (which I believe is almost certainly a V given last night's kills, although I suppose it could just be a serial killer who is being really elaborate in which case wowee)

ugh
I don't even know how to proceed
dflghidfkghdfkhgash
WE WERE IN SUCH A GOOD POSITION
AND THEN EVERYTHING WENT WRONG

[ac1983fan]

Been sick and busy. My reaction to beli and Cheery's initial votes for NL was mostly because i felt it would be foolish to rush into the end of the day without at least considering other courses of action. With that being said, I don't see much other course of action. VOTE: No Lynch

[ac1983fan]

I'm still really annoyed with the fact that we had this game covered and then it all got fucked but.

So hm. It's either BMMVCTT or BMMVCCC and it's very difficult to tell which is which.
HD is basically clear and from my perspective so am I
I've been tending to think Beli is town since D2 although I did think he was scum D1...it's a rough call.
I thought Zaicon was town, but since Thurhame replaced in the slot has seemed to be almost "too townie."
Cheery has pretty much slipped under the radar every day.

I really don't have a clue, honestly. Urgh.

[ac1983fan]

But I'm not sure why you're assuming it can't be BMM

T

CCC.

Because there was only one night with two kills, and I don't frankly think HD would be the type of player to pretend to be a one-shot vig as an SK.

@ac1983fan: Would you agree with HD that Beli and I are unlikely to be scum together?

No, frankly as far as I'm concerned any pair of the three remaining players after you subtract myself and HD is equally likely than any other at this point.

So hm. It's either BMMVCTT or BMMVCCC and it's very difficult to tell which is which.

Without any information, odds would be >97% BMMVCTT to <3% BMMVCCC. So unless you have some pretty overwhelming evidence in favor of Town-Beli, I'd say BMMVCTT is a pretty safe bet.

Sure, it might be 97% X and 3% Y, but 3% is not 0% which means that basing a vote based off of those stats could very easily fuck us over for no good reason.

[ac1983fan]

AC, you're the tiebreaker

Quite content with this.

Don't let us down, ac.

of course it comes down to the worst player in the game to be the "tiebreaker"
Although the way it looks from thurhame's last post, there's enough people who suspect (or "suspect") Cheery Dog to lynch him so there is that
Regardless I'll have to try to reread and make an attempt at determining who is scum
But at the moment just on gut I'm leaning towards a Thurhame/Cheery scumteam but that's mostly just gut and based on how they've acted today

[ac1983fan]

Hi, assuming you've all heard the news, just know that I am located in Boston, am fine, and probably won't read through until tomorrow or Wednesday. Sorry.

[ac1983fan]

Cheery was on nearly every major D1 wagon. Cheery's 589/593 interaction with Edos is interesting...

He's a better lynch than

Town

, and more likely to get enough votes before deadline than Cheery. With less than 5 hours to go, that's enough for me.

Emphasis added. This looks like it could be a potential scumslip. Because there is no player in this game with the name town, and we know that Edos was in fact scum...
Also i definitely feel like some of his actions today have been trying to pull strings a certain way.

I have a hard time seeing Beli as anything but town based on the breadcrumbs for his cop claim and his general behavior D2. But I have doubts because I've never been good at this game at all.

VOTE: Thurhame
apologies in advance if I am wrong

[ac1983fan]

Basically I was going to vote Cheery but then scum could have quick hammered if I was wrong. the idea was this way I could wait and see if Cheery or Beli voted Thurhame and the reaction but of course now you've switched and gone ahead and ruined that gambit ;-;
Ah well. I'm like 70-80% sure it's Cheery and Thurhame...Soo

[ac1983fan]

I'm actually more confident Cheery is scum
But if I'm wrong about Thurhame at least I don't wait a day to find out, y'know?

[ac1983fan]

*sigh* Sorry guys. I dropped the ball there.
Great play by Beli though, I was really convinced you were town.
But yeah sorry about that. I guess I should have been a tad smarter.

[ac1983fan]

And it just goes to show, no matter how good your scumhunting is, it's meaningless if you can't convince others.

But seriously, HOW could you guys see that as a scumslip?

The thing is that you basically came off as though you were trying to order everybody around, y'know? And something about that just doesn't seem right.

It's not an excuse though. And yeah, I don't know, that's just how I read it.
Frankly I wish HD would have waited to change so I could have seen a reaction from Cheery/Beli.
Oh well.