Mini 1492: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets GAME OVER

[Fegelein]

Yay, easy read for once.

[Fegelein]

Squilly isn't making much sense, but he might be new.
I'm not liking #28 from Amrun, it strikes me as a subtle OMGUS vote and I don't see how he's impeding scumhunting, he's just townhunting.
I'm not liking #30 either, attacking someone for first having a random vote, then RVS bandwagoning, then voting with albeit shaky logic.
Hate #33, it's a bad reason to accuse someone, and it seems mis-reppy.
Early Town-read on ChannelDelibird.
#46 reveals pressure. Counter-productive.
Squilly's play strikes me as null, in fact, bandwagoning early game most of the town leans more town than scum. It's when we're further in the game where the butter zone becomes an issue.
#48: Opening RVS wagon.
#51: I don't see how #50 is scummy.
But I don't like #53 though, mainly by calling the vote on him "stupid" is a little sloppy. Also, the weird triangle accusation is pretty much a sloppy, unbalanced way of calling out 3 players with little reasoning.
This weird triangle accusation holds absolutely no weight whatsoever, and is pretty absurd.
The first paragraph of #57 seems sloppy, it's as if he has little else to say and is throwing baseless accusations at 3 players.

VOTE: LnGrrrR

[Fegelein]

Explain why it's "sloppy"? I merely voiced it because I noticed it; I'm not good enough scumhunting to nail scum off one or two posts, so I usually tell the thread about posts I find questionable to see if those who are good scumhunters notice anything. (If you want to see what Im talking about, check my two completed games on here: Newbie 1368 and Open 495. I pretty much was wrong on all my initial reads.)

Firstly, it's sloppy because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They may have been voting each other a lot, but what else can you say? If you think it's because they are a trio, you're either an insanely paranoid Townie or scum looking for as many people as possible to incriminate. You're trying to use that as a scum-tell when none of them have even flipped scum yet.

Secondly, I don't like the self-meta. You're trying to use your behaviour in the past as a "Get out of Jail Free" card, and self-meta is scummy in its own right.

Thirdly, I have a feeling from your interactions with Amrun that one of you is probably scum. And I'm feeling you more.

[Fegelein]

What exactly do you mean by "You're trying to use that as a scum-tell when none of them have even flipped scum yet."

Of course they haven't flipped yet; I just noted the odd interaction. I don't know if any of them ARE scum, but I mention it so when I review later or I get killed, I at least have it noted in my ISO. I only stated it felt "off" to me because that is how it feels: it doesn't necessarily make any of them scum, but once one of them flips I can review.

Obviously I think Squilly's voting pattern/play this game have been scummy, but I think it's suspicious how he has voted only CDB and Amrun. Yes, it might be me being overly paranoid, but I find it better to be paranoid early than to be too trusting.

Tell me Fegelin, what do you think of the interaction between Amrun and Channel? What do you think of Squilly's votes?

@Jason, still waiting for you to tell us whether you are going to explain your vote or not.

OK, you ask me what exactly do I mean, then you try to justify it in your next paragraph.

It still comes off as you trying to attack 3 players at once with no evidence whatsoever.

Yes, but you can be neither too paranoid or too trusting.

Interaction between the two seems genuine, the shift in CBD's read seems legit even though I still don't get #51. Squilly's votes are indicative not of allegiance but of experience.

That's exactly my point. If it isn't, you're not playing the game. Your next post after rvs was "Amrun is STILL scum," implying I was scum in rvs because "I'm always scum." If you have a legitimate scumread on me, step up to the plate because you're not playing.

I regret having you as an early scum-read now.

I had a scum read on you, when i voted.

But you voted Amrun for an RVS reason...


UNVOTE: LnGrrrR
VOTE: JasonWazza

Fegelein, is there a specific reason you got that townread on channel?

Half of it is gut, the other half is his tone, it seems clear and non-artificial.

[Fegelein]

I had a scum read on you, when i voted.

This is bullshit.

You should join the Jason wagon.

[Fegelein]

From what I've seen of Jason, no reason to think he's more likely to behave this way as scum than town. See #51 for actual psychological insight into a KILLER (passive voice to go "naked votes are frowned upon" rather than "I am frowning upon your naked vote" is what you say when you want to avoid owernship of your words).

Thank you for explaining that to me, but it's not horrific enough as I thought. I still feel Jason is a better vote at the moment as his justification is ridiculous.

And this whole "mysterious voting triangle" is the sort of meaningless coincidence that scum like to point out in lieu of actually scumhunting.

Exactly.

Lol votes on me are pathetic, your voting me because i used an RVS reason even though i had a scum read?

What horse shit, go find a better wagon, and note that my RVS reason was about Amrun being scum.

>discourages voting him
>gives no good reason to unvote him.

Thank you for confirming my read on you. Also it's more likely for your tone to be scum than your tone to be Town here generally because Town wouldn't get so annoyed with only 2 votes on them.

Why do it when it shows me scum?

Seriously your vote is bad and you should feel bad.

Ahh, veiling a read. Can anyone justify as to why Amrun was scummy at that point or is it just as I thought (Jason has no reason)

Again, discrediting his own wagon without saying why. This is scum behaviour.

From what I've seen of Jason, no reason to think he's more likely to behave this way as scum than town. See #51 for actual psychological insight into a KILLER (passive voice to go "naked votes are frowned upon" rather than "I am frowning upon your naked vote" is what you say when you want to avoid owernship of your words).

Do you really actually believe this? I fully explained what I meant the next post, after I realized some people obviously aren't familiar with the English language.

If I were to say something like, "Lying about your claim at L-2 is frowned upon", would you still think that's the "sign of a KILLER"? (Also, I love the way you made sure to capitalize that word to add extra emphasis to your bullshit "scumhunt".)

Lets just get this straight here:

Squilly votes and unvotes nakedly twice and once with a horrible explanation, and hasn't really posted since then = newbtown, totally excusable

LnGrrrR uses the passive voice = obvscum

I'm glad Im not the only one who sucks at scumhunting his game. Join the club Channel.

I don't find using the passive voice to be obvscum, nobody does. But you're flailing a fair amount here. Squilly isn't. Squilly is also brand new and not used to this. You are used to this as you seem to be somewhat competent.

And this whole "mysterious voting triangle" is the sort of meaningless coincidence that scum like to point out in lieu of actually scumhunting.

I wasn't sure at first but he's literally not even attempting to draw a conclusion from it, so yes.

This is a good wagon. Amrun is pleased.

Hmm... Well, what did I say about it when I first brought it up?

Also not a fan of the weird triangle between Amrun, ChannelDelibird and Squilly.

Squilly has only "seriously" voted both of you, you and CDB both voted for each other in RVS, and then you both voted me back to back. Not sure what to make of it, but it feels off to me.

I don't know that it is necessarily "indicative" of anything... As I just said above, not sure what to make of it but it feels off. Just a gut reaction that there's too much synchronicity there.

Again, I don't know what to make of it. Something about it feels off, but Im not sure how. I know, Im totally scum for not having the team down rock solid by the whopping fourth page of this game, and goodness forbid I try to post something that isn't a total lead. I should just be like Jason and say "Hey this guy is scum!" and then I wouldn't be suspicious at all. Or just sheep everyone else's vote like Squilly. Or just lurk like half the people in the thread. Then I'd be obvtown!

Amrun, Channel, if you are town, step up your game. I'm really the main person posting so I know it's hard to find other interactions, but try to stop tunneling anyways and take a look.

The tone here is bad in this post. The first paragraph seems overly condescending.

The second seems to be both a "cult of personality" post and attacking the players play without explaining why.

Because if i pointed it out to town, i'd be pointing it out to scum, and if i point it out to scum, they will give less tells surrounding the issue.

So now you've made your scum-read aware that they are doing something wrong and they're going to fix it. Might as well reveal it now to actually help support your standpoint instead of just being all-talk.

[Fegelein]

@Feg, Squilly isn't flailing because... Squilly hasn't posted anything since post 39. Hard to flail when you just start hardcore lurking for two days straight.

Also, I am somewhat "flailing" because I hate when people use bullshit tells like "passive voice" and things like that. Now, if a person is using meta (is person X only says Y when they are scum and not town), that's different. But in my short time playing, I have found that "grammar" scumslips are the most unreliables ones. (The most often stupid example being "he said town instead of us/we!")

Again, if you look back at Newbie 1368, people thought I was scum in it because of the same posting style because I was pissed off against a BS tell. (And yes, blah blah blah self-meta, I am just pointing out that I really think those things are BS without meta to back it up.)

It is also why I understand Jason's reluctance to share why Amrun is scummy, as he may have enough data to back up his own read but not enough to justify to town. If he hasn't presented a case by mid to late day, it is worth looking into then, but for now I see no harm in letting him continue to work the case if he can. I think he's been vague enough that he hasn't tipped off Amrun to whatever made Jason get scumvibes in the first place.

Squilly still isn't flailing though while you are. Maybe Squilly hasn't had the chance to flail yet since inactivity, but you're still the only one flailing here.

Yes, your example is daft, but their case isn't quite so daft. I don't find it to be as big a scum-tell as Delibird and Amrun do, but they do have a fair point.

I'll check out that game soon. But still, it's self-meta, and you can't do anything to change that.

I'm still perplexed as to how you can get a scum-read from one post during RVS, and not even explain it, or even say "I have my reasons".

@CBD: Why are you doubting your LnGrrrR vote?

Also, hi Rach

[Fegelein]

So you're getting cold feet off of cold feet?

[Fegelein]

Why would you imply that from me literally saying 'no comment'

"if I thought it would be useful."

[Fegelein]

Oh, if you were just joking, ignore me. If it was some kind of serious point, pretend you were joking.

Discrediting the argument does not make it go away.

[Fegelein]

I never called you scum.

[Fegelein]

OK well I'm just going to move on and you can do whatever it is you want to do.

Don't worry, you're nowhere near as scummy as Jason and LngrrR

From what I've seen of Jason, no reason to think he's more likely to behave this way as scum than town. See #51 for actual psychological insight into a KILLER (passive voice to go "naked votes are frowned upon" rather than "I am frowning upon your naked vote" is what you say when you want to avoid owernship of your words).

Do you really actually believe this? I fully explained what I meant the next post, after I realized some people obviously aren't familiar with the English language.

If I were to say something like, "Lying about your claim at L-2 is frowned upon", would you still think that's the "sign of a KILLER"? (Also, I love the way you made sure to capitalize that word to add extra emphasis to your bullshit "scumhunt".)

Lets just get this straight here:

Squilly votes and unvotes nakedly twice and once with a horrible explanation, and hasn't really posted since then = newbtown, totally excusable

LnGrrrR uses the passive voice = obvscum

I'm glad Im not the only one who sucks at scumhunting his game. Join the club Channel.

This reeks of scum caught for the wrong reasons and "why aren't they lynching the scummy newb." Also, calling your own scumhunting bad while also putting down someone voting for you is just all sorts of scummaliciousness.

And this whole "mysterious voting triangle" is the sort of meaningless coincidence that scum like to point out in lieu of actually scumhunting.

I wasn't sure at first but he's literally not even attempting to draw a conclusion from it, so yes.

This is a good wagon. Amrun is pleased.

Hmm... Well, what did I say about it when I first brought it up?

Also not a fan of the weird triangle between Amrun, ChannelDelibird and Squilly.

Squilly has only "seriously" voted both of you, you and CDB both voted for each other in RVS, and then you both voted me back to back. Not sure what to make of it, but it feels off to me.

I don't know that it is necessarily "indicative" of anything... As I just said above, not sure what to make of it but it feels off. Just a gut reaction that there's too much synchronicity there.

Again, I don't know what to make of it. Something about it feels off, but Im not sure how. I know, Im totally scum for not having the team down rock solid by the whopping fourth page of this game, and goodness forbid I try to post something that isn't a total lead. I should just be like Jason and say "Hey this guy is scum!" and then I wouldn't be suspicious at all. Or just sheep everyone else's vote like Squilly. Or just lurk like half the people in the thread. Then I'd be obvtown!

Amrun, Channel, if you are town, step up your game. I'm really the main person posting so I know it's hard to find other interactions, but try to stop tunneling anyways and take a look.

This, like a few other things, comes from the mindset that CDB and I are both town. You're also not the person posting the most, not that posting = content anyway.

Guys, I feel a death tunnel coming on.

Welcome to the Town-reads, don't do anything to make me doubt you.

Jason, I don't really get what you're doing. Do you have any other reads besides Amrun?

Yes and they will be disclosed when i put them into a single post in the thread.

Alternatively, you could post them now and stop trying to veil them, because Amrun already knows you're onto her.

[Fegelein]

Mini catch-up:
#130 is backseating somewhat, and also slightly IIoA.
Penguin usually plays this strange backseating game as Town. I've not seen any scum games from her, anyone care to link me?
#136 is Town as fuck.
I don't like how LnGrrrR has to repeat that he's Town or a mislynch, common psychology there.
"Death tunneling isn't a bad thing.". Oh yes it is, although it's much worse in smaller games. I can show you an example if you want.
It's not a horrible case. It was a little weak to begin with, but it's grown on me.
Also, when was I part of the circle? Wasn't it Amrun, Channel and Squilly, not Amrun, Channel and me.

Here's my list of reads and stuff:
TOWN
Amrun
ChannelDelibird
Stubbs
fferyllt
penguin_alien
Toomai
oriole
Syryana
RachMarie
LnGrrR
JasonWazza
SCUM

The null zone starts at fferlyllt and ends at Syryana.

Weak reads on Stubbs and Rach.

Strong reads on the pairs at the top and bottom.

[Fegelein]

As soon as I clicked Send, I realised I forgot Squilly.

He ends my Null list instead of Syr.

[Fegelein]

Why is everyone being so conformist all of a sudden and posting big ol' lists of reads? StubbsKVM's is probably the scummiest.

I like reads lists anyway.

So i'm scum now for what reason?

Attacking Amrun for literally no reason (RVS reasoning and then saying "No, I was srs" makes it worse), not expanding on it, veiling it for no very good reason and getting pissed off at 2 votes.

I really want to post but I have nothing to contribute. I have weak, aggregate reads on four players and doubt the correctness of all of them.

Good grief.

[Fegelein]

Feg, you aren't part of the circle. I just listed your name because you have jumped in on the case. I would be surprised if all three people on my case (you, Amrun and Channel) were all town.

Why do you have Rach as scum?

This applies to fferyllt also.

Last game I played with her, she was a little more up-front and helpful. Now it's as if she's shouting stuff from the sidelines and not getting involved. Basically a variation of backseating.

any specific reasons Syr? And I am glad you are sticking around

His entire ISO is a crock of shit. His RVS scumread was "legit" but he refuses to explain it, he has no other reads, he's "getting reactions" from whatever the hell it is he's doing, but doesn't explain/share those either. I see no attempt to scumhunt or really do anything other than lollygag about and ask people why he's scum.

Also, thanks ^^

It's a parrot, but a correct parrot. Don't know how to read it.

I won't be chivvied into voting before I'm ready to vote.

I will never understand people who approach the game this way

--------

Fegelein, why so town on Stubbs?

I think I liked Stubbs's earlier posts as even if they were backseat scumhunting, they were raising interesting points. Though his Squilly vote is shit.

[Fegelein]

I'll probably make a bigger post later on, but here's my summary on Stubbs:

Sure, I've seen that he's scummy at this moment in time, but I don't see him as a high priority lynch target. I'd rather Jason.

Stubbs has fallen from slightly Town though.

[Fegelein]

Why is everyone being so conformist all of a sudden and posting big ol' lists of reads? StubbsKVM's is probably the scummiest.

I'm having a hard time getting reads, but here's an attempt. Only slight scumreads on Jason for refusing to participate, Squilly for empty votes and Rach for having 2 reads. I'm having especially a lot of difficulty reading Amrun, so I just put him at null. LNG I think is just frustrated town.

Town

oriole
Fegelein

Leaning Town

ChannelDelibird
fferyllt
LnGrrrR

Null

Syryana
penguin_alien
Toomai
Amrun

Leaning Scum

JasonWazza
RachMarie
Squilly

Scum

N/A


P-Edit: Okay so Rach might be town too.

How in the world do you have such a strong town read on oriole?

I like his reads list a lot. Maybe it's also because I want him to be town, because he's a great asset if he is.

V/la until sunday. I might pop in, or I might not.

This is shit.

I really want to post but I have nothing to contribute. I have weak, aggregate reads on four players and doubt the correctness of all of them.

Which four players? Why do you have the reads you have on those players?

JasonWazza: Slightly scummy because of what he's done so far (i.e. nothing but claim that he has a scumread and that he'll elaborate later). To be honest I feel like I should consider him null until he actually elaborates, but I feel his attitude about it (especially early on) is anti-town at best.
LnGrrrR: Slightly town because...don't know to be honest, it's mostly an aggregate of extremely slightly town posts.
Fegelein: Slightly town for the same reason as LnGrrrR (i.e. basically gut).
Squilly: Currently of the opinion he's newbietown, since I think someone with claimed offline experience would put a bit more work into learning how to be town online.

Easy reads apart fom maybe LnGrrrR. Also, how can something be extremely slightly? That doesn't make any sense.

Hey everyone, let's find some scum! I'm so excited~

You're sucking up.

oh god this is easy

VOTE: RachMarie

This isn't outside your meta, but an explanation would be superb.

In case I hadn't sufficiently implied it, my previous experience with Jason leads me to believe that he is not doing anything particularly differently here to when I have seen him as town before. With that in mind, Stubbs is actually scummy, so that's why you should vote for him.

Marquis, given RachMarie's pretty good reasons for not being here very much, you should probably vote for scum while you give her time to do things.

I've seen Town Jason and it's a lot more engaged and involved and also not afraid to show reads that are "out there".

I like the case on Stubbs, I'll think about it more while

I'm on V/LA for today

.

Lazy.
---------------------

I'm starting to like the Stubbs wagon a lot more now. While I still prefer Jason, I will be more than happy to jump over if someone actually gives me solid reasoning to unvote Jason, who has not gotten better. LnGrrR is also a possibility as I haven't seen him really do anything more Towny in his posts recently. Rach is my wild-card scum-read. Syr and Fery are my wild-card Town reads. Amrun and CBD remain Town. Null on everyone else.

@Syryana (since I'm not quoting that massive post). I was answering Fery's question, not comparing him to Rach.

[Fegelein]

While I still prefer Jason, I will be more than happy to jump over if someone actually gives me solid reasoning to unvote Jason, who has not gotten better.

Here's a reason: More people are voting for Stubbs than Jason. Your vote is currently achieving nothing. Join the damn wagon instead of just applauding it because that's how we kill scum.

Meh, either way, you've got a fair point:

UNVOTE: JasonWazza
VOTE: StubbsKVM

L-2.

[Fegelein]

His Rach reasoning is all right to be fair. He should have commented on it earlier though, because it's starting to make me paranoid.

[Fegelein]

Oh hey, Feg is probably scum.

[Fegelein]

The claim actually seems to fit quite well in flavour too.

UNVOTE: Stubbs
VOTE: Jason

[Fegelein]

VOTE: lngrr

Wagon re-assemble!

What do you think of Jason?

[Fegelein]

prod dodge pretty much

[Fegelein]

I'm taking a break from playing Mafia due to IRL stuff, so sub me out.