Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[fferyllt]

Hi guys!

Catching up.

[fferyllt]

UNVOTE{/b] while I read up.

[fferyllt]

UNVOTE

[fferyllt]

Bro ika, I just replaced 2 days ago, I don't have that much content.

I don't like this post. I don't like most of what came earlier either.

[fferyllt]

And then his play picks up almost immediately.

@Nacho, no I'm on page 8.

TierShift seems to be floating above the fray during those first 8 pages.

[fferyllt]

Nacho are you talking about this post?

Guys if read my post, I breadcrumbed JK for a reaction test, and bjc immediately Omgus'd me by saying i'm scum, then ika voting me. Now I'm 50% sure of ika/bjc scumbuddying.

This is probably town.

[fferyllt]

Nacho looks pretty town in the first 10 pages.

bjc maybe town. Abbot maybe town. emeraldmon maybe town. I see Nacho's point about LMB but I'm going to hold onto my bad vibe for a few more pages, probably.

I think this is my first game with Ray Frost. He seems pretty stingy about giving out town reads. Maybe a vintage thing.

[fferyllt]

I <3 my predecessor for page 12.

[fferyllt]

Aaand on page 13 Ray Frost starts to put down some town reads. fml.

[fferyllt]

Look, if you guys are eager to lynch someone now, then lynch Rob holy hell. He isn't posting crap but just enough to stay in the game. There is probably scum on my wagon.

I hate this post.

The whole post?

[fferyllt]

Also if you want my replace into newbie slot info:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28585 (Scumslot) Newbie slot.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30224 (Scumslot) Newbie slot.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31070 (Scumslot) Newbie slot.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28769 (Townslot) Newbie slot.

As an addenum:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31510 <- Wisdom was replacing Mario who lurked and replaced out who was replacing a newbie (Scumslot) Newbie Slot.

My anecdotal evidence is better than yours.

I've replaced in to precisely zero newbie scumslots, aside from 1436 where the newbie never picked up their role pm. (I would never have replaced into that slot if Cabd hadn't twisted my arm.)

[fferyllt]

Yo, so somebody ISO tier, abbott, hana and search for these names

---abbott

hana = 0 (:neutral:)
tiershift = 1 (1 match, defug?)
TS = 3 (only in read lists)

---hana

abbott 0 (yup, surprise)
tiershift = 5 (???)
TS = 16

---tiershift

abbott = 5
hana = 0


the only other person who holds a candle to this is LMB. But he's town.

analyzing Hana's posts on Tier seem to suggest me being town clears Tier. Game, set, match.

Why would you expect Sakura to comment on her predecessor by name? Or at all for that matter?

[fferyllt]

scum

BCJ
ED
ika

--
RobW
Nacho
--

town

TS
LMB
RF

Updated read list:

ED - townish
BJC - townish
RF - patronizing townie

TS - mildly scummy
Nacho - scum

ika - ? (ISO needed)
RW - ? (post or die)
LMB - ? (post or die)

wibbly wobbly much?

So you don't think 250 or so posts might provide some data for reads changes?

[fferyllt]

abbott = 5
hana = 0

Most people call me Sakura jsyk.

Also hi ffery, thank god it's someone I can read.

I'll retract my intent to hammer, because kop wanting himself dead to "clear" TS looks like it comes from a townie perspective, i still want to have more words with Nacho wrt ika and kop, and ffery needs to read up and catch up.

btw ffery your predecessor was currently voting someone who's at L-1

You couldn't read ika?

[fferyllt]

Changed my mind about LMB. Reading him as newbtown.

[fferyllt]

I didn't. that's not the point of my post. I wanted to point out that tier and abbott/hana have had limited direct contact.

Ok. Is that unique to their interactions with players? I haven't looked at that, probably won't until I've reread the game/done a few ISOs.

[fferyllt]

Am I allowed to be happy that ika's getting replaced by someone with better spelling?

Is that the most memorable thing to you about ika?

[fferyllt]

You're following this game pretty closely right now, it looks like. What do you think of pisskop?

[fferyllt]

Ha! that game. I got away with that because nobody knew what my town game actually looks like. I also let people assume I was as newb as they cared to think, which led to tons of underestimation.

I have other scum games, both good and bad, which are more representative of my play at MS.

Also, you didn't answer my question about pisskop.

[fferyllt]

Also, why did you wind up reading that particular game as your first?

[fferyllt]

Oh wait, I thought you were talking about http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24994 for some reason.

In 1436 I burnt my town meta to the ground. And also proved to myself once in for all that effectively emulating your town game as scum is not optimal in terms of advancing a scum wincon.

[fferyllt]

Yes he is. But he's probably town.

You. I like you.

[fferyllt]

I just want to say that the first game I ever read on this site was newbie 1436 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31510
and you were amazing as scum that game, I thought you were town the whole time I was reading.

So I am a little bit afraid of you now.

Getting hit by BoP in by a total stranger when I replace into a game weirded me out a little. I would have meta'd you anyway, but you went on the priority pile. Getting hit by BoP in a game where there are players who are arguably better at mafia than me also pinged, especially since I didn't get the impression that you've been particularly wary about Nacho in my initial readthrough.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33357

And I found that you referred to Newbie 1436 repeatedly in that game, so I've calmed down.

I also found that your scum-play in that game was pretty self-assured. You took strong stances and pushed back at some assertive players who scumread you.

Your play in this game has more hesitance to it. If you're town in this game, then you look like your game at least at this point in your mafia career is the inverse of mine.

[fferyllt]

Reading everything, emeraldemon is the most scummy to me at the moment.

And yes I am serious when I say pisskop is probably town. Unfortunately so.

Cliff notes about why?

[fferyllt]

^^ why emeraldemon is scummy. I agree with you about pisskop.

[fferyllt]

yeah I saw that, but not in p-edit because new page.

Did you read his completed newbie game?

I skimmed it for vague impressions of style and tone. I'm going to do some compare and contrast later tonight.

[fferyllt]

I am not a fan of using meta, let alone meta off of one game. At the very least, if you're going to meta someone, have three games per alignment to be able to get a feel for style consistency / adaptations with regard to differences in situation.

If you can't fulfill that minimum, I am unable to even accept meta as reason for anything.

P-edit: I am partial to death by brownie explosion.

I think it depends on how you use meta. Meta-ing a new player is usually more about predicting a development curve than pattern-matching.

[fferyllt]

do tell when you get there. feedback >= play. at least right now.

What post is this a reply to?

[fferyllt]

What do you mean by "feedback >= play"?

[fferyllt]

feedback on my to date play is greater than or equal to more chances to play for the purposes of improving play.

Not sure what this has to do with my meta-ing emeraldemon.

[fferyllt]

I thought 827 was kinda scummy. (see 979).

What was scummy about it?

[fferyllt]

Don't talk about other ongoing games.

[fferyllt]

@fferylt
1073: Oh is Nacho good? Sorry nacho I will be afraid of you too now . Seriously though, my intention was only to express admiration, I still plan on sorting you just like everyone else. Regarding my finished game, I posted it in my first post in case anyone wants to read it, but honestly I have no idea how my town game is. What you're seeing here is me learning to actually town for the first time (and the other games I'm in now).

Yeah, Nacho's very good as all alignments.

1101: So Sakura is the only one who's mentioned a townblock, and she's mentioned it twice (645 & 827). Nacho did say 729 that he thought all those people were town, so maybe that's the same thing. But why doesn't Sakura say "I think all these people are town"? Why is it nacho's townblock, and not her townblock? Is this some appeal to authority that I didn't get because I didn't know nacho is awesome at scumhunting (sorry again nacho)?

Townblocs are awesome, and whether I mention them explicitly or not, I'm usually working on building them. I townhunt as well as scumhunt, and in some games scumhunting comes down to PoE as much as anything. My townbloc-ing approach has been influenced by playing with Nacho, so make of that what you will regarding his approach as town.

Combined with this, I never had a particular townread on abbott, and I don't really remember that from nacho and ray either, but I need to go back and reread. Maybe Abbott really was town and I wasn't paying attention.

Nacho called Abbot town here: 227, which came after his Abbot vote and a fairly long exchange with Abbot about the vote and Abbot's suspicions of Nacho and bjc. In post 461 he has Abbot in his townpile. In 791 he says Abbot has been town for a while. That's a pretty solid trajectory on the slot.

[fferyllt]

What good is there to a townbloc when there's like 3 people who agree that it actually is a townbloc?

I don't care how many people agree with my townbloc. The power of a townbloc is in having a small handful of players whose reads I trust are coming from a town perspective and are well informed. The strength of a townbloc is in what it provides in feedback to my own reads. Not every player I think is town is part of my townbloc, usually.

[fferyllt]

PEd. Because I think I know why Nacho's onto him, considering i've hydra'd with Nacho before and I've learned some of his scumhunting tactics, which are known as godly by most ppl on this site that know him.

I would never personally call nacho godly in his scumhunting, but I've known him for ages.

I forgot about this exchange. Adds to my feeling that Sakura is trying to use Nacho as an authority.

Town-Sakura usually sheeps Nacho on day 1, so yeah, she uses him as an authority, especially on day 1. I can't remember a game I've played with both her and Nacho where she was scum. At worst Sakura sheeping Nacho and using him in appeals to authority are null-tells.

I'm curious what nacho thinks about the "Nacho thinks we're town so you should too" vibe.

[fferyllt]

I reread rayFrost, I still think he is probably town. His trajectory on ika feels natural to me and somewhat mirrors my own, thinking he was pretty scummy early and then slowly feeling better about him. (although ika/fferylt moved all the way to strong town for him, which hasn't happened for me). And just recently, it's hard to see the scum motivation behind defending pisskop when he's so close to lynch. The only way that would make sense to me would be if it was rayfrost / pisskop scumteam. But I have a hard time buying that also given how early ray hopped on the RobW wagon (2nd vote I think, 255) and how long he stayed there.

Ray wanted to hold onto his reasons for thinking pisskop is town for the time being. I suspect I have some of the same reasons since we both have fairly short-term data upon which to make that judgement. I'm holding off discussing it because I don't want to stomp through whatever line of inquiry Ray's set up. When he's ready to talk about it, I'm happy to go first if he wants me to.

[fferyllt]

my townbloc

This is the part I'm trying to draw attention to. You are trying to make your own townblock. You did not describe yourself as part of nacho's townblock. What I got out of that post is "nacho thinks we're town, so you should too".

This is all about the possible intention behind one post, but that post felt bad to me and I stand by that.

My townbloc is influenced by Nacho's reads. I got a hellacious townread off his early posts. I liked his challenge to me about LMB while I was catching up, though he could easily predict that my read of LMB would change as I worked my way through game thread. I know about his current time constraints from other games and from hydraing with him, so though I want to hear more from him, particularly about what he now thinks about Rob/pisskop, I'm not freaking out about his drop in activity.

[fferyllt]

fferylt or hana if I had my way right now.
I think bjc would tell us the most from a lynch, though, seeing how controversial he is/was.
I want to suspect nacho, but I keep finding no good reason to.


And I asked you about Ray because I have no clue what scumRay is like.

Hana's been looking for a reason to tie me a bowtie, and ika weirds me.

The issue I have is its clear that we all know how to blend in, and post content as scum. I saw no clear logic failings, no nasty pushes with suspicious wording, nothing.

LMB I haven't even seen post yet. where is he? I think his JK breadcrumb was crap, though. Easy to fake, and easy to pull out of a hat when needed.

Your reasons for wanting to lynch us make me wonder if you feel boxed in. The low hanging fruit have been taken off the table. That includes you, I think, because Ray and I both think you looked town while under lynch pressure.

I feel like I need to look for scum in unconventional places. bjc is probably the closest thing to an easy lynch currently, which makes me want to look really closely at players who keep pushing him.

[fferyllt]

@tiershift
It seems like you're scumreading pisskop, but your vote hasn't budged off of bjc. Why? Is bjc still scummier?

@fferylt
OK, so you are townreading nacho, pisskop, and maybe ray. What do you think about bjc? And tiershift?

I didn't like tiershift in my read through. He's come off a little better in the last 5 or so pages, but I am not townreading him. bjc I still think is town. Like I said, I feel like I need to think unconventionally wrt to finding scum.

[fferyllt]

Nah. ika was town as fuck.

[fferyllt]

All of that stuff comes from a town mindset. His play would probably annoy me if I were playing with him, but I could totally see what he was doing and why. Running people up and observing how they react is a valid tactic that I see frequently in mafia. It's not my style of play, but if you think it's inherently scummy then you'll need to make some adjustments playing at MS.

[fferyllt]

VOTE: Tiershift

[fferyllt]

unvote
vote: tiershift

wagons! \o/

Why are you voting with your scumread?

[fferyllt]

wagons = info.
wagons = power.
wagons = as useful now as they were in RVS.
wagons = pressure, unless somebody calls them out like this.

I wagoned emerald and I think he's towny. Imagine Tiershift now . . .

Then why did you find fault with ika's approach to wagons?

[fferyllt]

its my playstyle to flipflop on reads, to L-1 IC in a gambity manner, and to repeatedly post yoyr intent to lynch several characters d2?
gtfofh with that. raytown expressed similar sentiment at that.

im not scum yo, i just play in a scummy fashion with several dubious wordgames that provide plently of emotional juice. you are scummy. if I am scum, display your logic. cold hard logic.

Pregame RVS, oddity, Flip-flops on read,

IC vote to L-1

, hops madly speculating about D2 lynches, several emotionally based games and the whole dubious playstyle defense. His playstyle gets him only so far.

[fferyllt]

I probably won't want to hammer anyone before I have a chance to talk with Nacho in this game, now that I'm caught up.

[fferyllt]

You're wrong about ika. And there's no "we" behind you. One of the reasons you're not hammered and this game day isn't over right now, is because I weigh evidence and I look for town motivation behind crazy play.

[fferyllt]

@fferylt If you think im town your vote would be better served elsewhere.

You say you're scumreading me, yet here you're appealing to me as town.

I don't think this is necessarily scummy. I'm just pointing out that your messages about/to me are pretty mixed.

[fferyllt]

I replaced in about 10 pages ago, I think. It wasn't a horrible catch-up read.

[fferyllt]

Hayate, I take it your read of me is entirely based on ika?

[fferyllt]

The bjc lynch not going through is a town-leaning consideration?

[fferyllt]

The post numbers work. Given they're chronological I just flipped through the pages and followed your wall that way.

[fferyllt]

How do you think that meshes with #608, where his attitude is suddenly the opposite: "Oh, lynch me, whatever?" In retrospect this feels kind of weird; ika pressures him to not act survivalistically, and thus instead he switches to the opposite?

Hmm... actually now that you mention it, it feels quite odd, when I came in bjc was already getting pressured anyhow and i just thought that if he was scum he would have self-hammered or claimed PR, what do you think about him wanting to get hammered instead of just ending the discussion himself right there? Maybe because ika was pressuring him and i was scumreading ika at the time (and im still on the null-scum realm for that slot, not in so much as TS or kop tho).

TS > kop interaction could be buddying tho.

I feel like you just claimed scum here.

[fferyllt]

Well, it's you who claimed you can read me when I replaced in. If you've got me null-scum then why the hell aren't you trying to sort me?

[fferyllt]

Buncha reasons. The pure openness of his posts. He claimed VT. He looks like he's genuinely paranoia-filled scumhunting.

Also, I almost replaced into that slot. pisskop beat my by 4 minutes. That was probably the 4 minutes I spent reading his predecessor's handful of posts. And I got a lost-town-doesn't-know-what-to-do feel from them. When I caught up, I read through all that stuff about the statistics of newbie replace outs, but statistics don't trump the vibe I get from somebody's posts. And I have never been mistaken about the alignment of someone who actually posted that I've considered replacing. It's not a trust tell, because I don't always review posts before I replace in. And even when I do, I once in a while take a role I think (correctly) is scum because I don't want to make it easy to guess my alignment as a replacement.

I jumped blind into this slot, for instance.

[fferyllt]

And I got a lost-town-doesn't-know-what-to-do feel from them.

How the heck did you get this kind of feel from Rob's ISO.

Because I did.

[fferyllt]

Post 480 in particular. That "let you all down" comment is something I've seen before a few times. I didn't even have to read around the ISO to know where that was coming from. His previous comment said it all.

[fferyllt]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sakura

[fferyllt]

Post 480 in particular. That "let you all down" comment is something I've seen before a few times. I didn't even have to read around the ISO to know where that was coming from. His previous comment said it all.

I consider rob to be a complete and total null. He was a non-presence in the game. The letting you all down comment could just as easily be apologizing indirectly to his scumbuddy or apologizing to everyone for forcing yet another replacement as it could be a townie apologizing to the townspeople about his inability to perform.

If Rob had, at any point in time, actually been present in the game I might feel more inclined to believe you could get a tell from this due to having a better grip on his personality, but given that I have written more than his entire body of work in my last post alone I find it hard to believe that you feel you have a reliable personality read on him to make the judgment call on which of the three potential situations it is.

This is not to detract from the obv-townness of pkipps but I feel the need to ask how you can truly express confidence in your ability to grab personality tells to make alignment tells from a series of 4 word posts

There is probably some selection bias in my track record. When I decide I'm looking for a town slot to replace into, I pass on the ones I feel are ambiguous. And one of these days, I'll be surprised when I get my role PM. It just hasn't happened yet.

But, I was looking for a town role, and I did think Rob was town based on my quick scan of his ISO.

I wish all reads were that easy, tbh. Once I'm in a game, objectivity takes a hit, and how I process game data changes.

[fferyllt]

What I don't understand is all the townreads that koppie has been getting all of a sudden.

Me neither, plus apparently ffery got a townread out of Rob's ISO, which is worrying me.

Is it now? What's worrying me is that you have a null/scum read on me, but had no questions for me at all until I called you on it.

[fferyllt]

Response to this?

then what's your read on kop, I could have sworn you said he was town...

What I don't understand is all the townreads that koppie has been getting all of a sudden.

Me neither, plus apparently ffery got a townread out of Rob's ISO, which is worrying me.

Is it now? What's worrying me is that you have a null/scum read on me, but had no questions for me at all until I called you on it.

Not going to comment on this for now, but if you manage to lynch me then i'm going to slap some evidence in your face about how you should know that I'm very likely to forget things like these and hope town lynches you the next day.

It would be a bad thing for town to lynch me on day 2. But not as bad as later.

Under the assumption you're town and you're townreading Nacho, I thought you might be waiting for Nacho to show up and sort me.

This post suggests not. You getting huffy about me aggressively scumreading you doesn't fly so well after the Tales Mini.

[fferyllt]

I thought you might be waiting for Nacho to show up and sort me.

Why would i want Nacho to sort you? He's been townreading your slot while i've been scumreading it =/

Because you like to sheep him? Because he's usually good at figuring me out? There are some middle-ground cases where he wasn't sure about me for a while, but he hasn't flat out misread me since Xenologue.

Are you trying to distance from nacho?

[fferyllt]

Are you trying to distance from nacho?

Not really, in fact i wish he was here so he would stop this BS already, to me it seems like people are taking advantage that he's not around to disband wagons on me =/

Also i'm starting to regret not letting ika hammer kop.

I'd like to hear what he thinks about the last 10-15 pages, including the reasons for the push on you.

You tend to attract wagons. I'm trying to figure out if the kerfuffle about your summary post to pisskop has decent basis. It's not something I would have jumped on you for. In fact I was townreading you until you shone a light on the fact that you weren't trying to sort a slot you think is scum.

[fferyllt]

you're very ok with lynching just about everyone >_>

nope, and I can prove that in-game too.

I'd like for you to do that.

[fferyllt]

@pisskop
I am still waiting to hear why you hopped on my wagon.

info.

never intended to lynch emerald, but to drag him front and center for info.

Ok.

unvote
vote: tiershift

wagons! \o/

not superserious hands. i wanted tier to provide infos.

Did you get what you were looking for?

I hope you have an agenda. Im wiling to see where it goes.

wagons = info.
wagons = power.
wagons = as useful now as they were in RVS.
wagons = pressure, unless somebody calls them out like this.

I wagoned emerald and I think he's towny. Imagine Tiershift now . . .

again, wagons are info, pressure. you called me out. o never called tier scum here, I left you all (him mostly) insinuate it.

Who is "you"? Me?

In the meantime do you have questions for tier? He seems busy lately, but surely. . .

Like his earlier Rayfrost reads. I want them forward. restated or updated.

I do want tge most competent case on Ray I can get. because I dont know scumRay. i wish I did . . .

This is my first game with Ray. So far, I'm seeing town mindset in his posts, particularly when he talks about the basis for his reads. But, he's an experienced player, and may be good at emulating town thought processes as scum. If we're both alive on day 2, I'll do a serious meta dive.

i ask you for questions for tier, which nobody produces. so he answers my question about ray instead.

I don't understand this. Who is "you"? And do you mean "questions for tier to answer"?

I had no intent of lynching emerald or tier. I didnt call tier scummy in my wagon post either.

Who do you want to lynch?

as far as others, i havent voted for bjc yet, aside of rvs. nacho hs not enough evidence. lmb was too towny by most to be, and i had zero audience with him.

no, however nonsensical you percieve my actions they are focused on a few people and follow a pattern.

p sure I haven't called your actions nonsensical. I'm trying to understand them. I'm used to playing mafia with people who use their vote similarly to what you're doing. It's actually a pretty common strategy. I use my vote sparingly by comparison, which I think makes my votes more weighty when I do vote.

[fferyllt]

The hell? I explained it in 1209 and we've been going around ever since.

[fferyllt]

@fferllt

The hell? I explained it in 1209 and we've been going around ever since.

Ah, OK, makes a lot more sense now. For some reason I thought you saw some scumslip in Sakura's argument about bjc, or the TS-Kop buddying line, and was very confused about where you were going.

Do you think Sakura's emphasis on the replace-in statistics argument says anything about alignment? Do you think she would be more likely to make such an argument as scum (or town)?

I don't know. I feel like the argument from anecdote is something that fits Sakura-town fairly well, and the statistics happen to line up with her personal experience. I had the impression it was Nacho who was pushing the statistical argument more strongly. In my readthrough, at that point I was actually thinking maybe Rob was going to be the player-slot that I finally got wrong when deciding to replace in. pisskop's play put that to rest.

[fferyllt]

ED, I townread you because of stuff mentioned in 670 and I haven't even seen a half-decent argument to make me think you are scum. I find it weird that people are scumreading you and I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, but everytime I ask I get no answers.

Who are these "people"?

[fferyllt]

That isn't the point I was trying to make tho.
The point i was trying to make is that the post you quoted is a post i have made to give key points i remembered from the thread to pisskop.
I do have a tendency to sheep Nacho, specially when I believe he's town tho.

Would you stop hiding behind nacho please? Thanks.

^^ Hey Tier, do you have any idea why I don't like this reply?

VOTE: Tiershift

unvote
vote: tiershift

wagons! \o/

Yes...what's up with that sheeping?

unvote
vote: tiershift

wagons! \o/

Why are you voting with your scumread?

This.

What do you think of his response?

In the meantime do you have questions for tier? He seems busy lately, but surely. . .

Like his earlier Rayfrost reads. I want them forward. restated or updated.

Rayfrost is town to me. His actions have brought this game forward and his reasons to vote come from a town mindset I think. He's been good at picking out flaws and keeping a cool head. I could elaborate if you want.

I want to check on something. This comment is a marker to remind me to report back.

If I found juicey nuggets I would have shared them. I think his playstyle here is very open, and while looking over his specific choice of wording I get all tingly. one of my newer insights inti the game are choice of wording and how it changes under pressure. or if scuk popushing an angle. other than that yiu can have what I saved in a draft last night.

Spoiler:

I think that Tier may be using my slot a verification of his own, which is why he was okay defending it. I've stated something of the sort before. Another point is his pursuit on bjc. bjc has let him sit rather idle whilst looking like a scumhunter.

No, actually scum don't quickhammer on this site.

Saying I'm afraid to be lynched is pretty groundless your activity was worthless to me and I refuse to be lynched solely because of that and that's the last I'll say about that activity.

P-edit:
Fuck you get me paranoid about ed now...

o.o

Aside from that its all wifomy and Stuff.

I want a wagon on him, not to share my theories or to lynch him now.

Is this supposed to be a case or what?

TS > kop interaction could be buddying tho.

Uh...I'm buddying kop? Start reading this thread.

You defended the hell out of his predecessor without ever actually calling him town iirc.

In the hypothetical situation where bjc is scum for sure without a doubt with interactions akin to this game, there would have been, I'd imagine, a tipping point at which either bjc's buddy was attempting to consistently raise counterwagons (not just one, as consistently trying to push a single one could come across as scummy via the t.v. issue whereas finding things scummy for multiple people is more liable to be seen as active scumhunting and mere disagreement with the bjc wagon) or given up the ghost and gone for the bus. These wouldn't necessarily happen at the same time, but the simple fact that I haven't seen much evidence of people trying to subtly snipe the wagon's momentum or distract from the wagon itself or even a bus makes me inclined to feel that it's simply an issue of too many low hanging fruit for bjc to be lynched.

I try to understand this. So, because you haven't been able to drop any associative tells, you think that bjc is not scum?

I like this new guy's entrance.

First sentence feels kinda like a slip.

What was your read on LMB?

What I don't understand is all the townreads that koppie has been getting all of a sudden. How did he go from flailing scum to obvtown? Can someone assemble a summary or something?

Which players called him flailing scum and then changed their reads to obvtown?

[fferyllt]

emeraldemon,

I could basically quote random posts from his first few hours in the game and call them all town.

I offered to replace into the slot and I was very curious to see how the player who did replace in handled himself. So, though I'd told GiF I'd replace for someone else if he needed it, instead of catching up on the thread in anticipation of that, I watched pisskop post. In real time. His posts were quick, staccato burst of energy hitting the thread, and for quite a while he was interacting mostly with bjc and ika. And through all of that IMO he came off town as fuck. There was no hesitation or appearance of pause to think carefully about replies.

When claim became inevitable he did exactly what a scum player up for lynch usually doesn't do and probably shouldn't do. If you're going down as scum, anyway, scum usually try to flush out a town PR by claiming something and seeing if someone counterclaims. pisskop claimed VT. That's not an ironclad town tell, but given the earlier play it looks pretty damn town.

The spoilered posts all struck me as transparently town.

Spoiler:

enough of your survivalism play. at this point your play is becoming more hindeirng to me then helpful if your town.

......... Okay. Whatever, someone hammer me so I can play in a different newb game.

^
Does this look like survivalist to you?
And if his play is hindering you then you're effectively pushing for a policy lynch, now that i finished reading im thinking on bjc as more town. Maybe because I've been in his position before.
Also Ika leaning more scum =/

it was a pure test to see his breaking point, he sat at l-1 for a very long time, and he continued to tryt o stall it out and push elsewhere. at first i thought it was flail scum, but his continued fight makes me think hes town. also his last post saying "fuck it lynch me" was all i needed to know to make me think hes town.

i still feel like there was survivalism play in it but it wasnt scum driven survivalism.

i come back and see pisskop first few posts. im almost tempted to sheep him becasue i still want to see a bjc flip becasue it would also contain info.

i was reflecting back on this game at work and was tossing an idea around

ts/bjc are the scums

i cant be the only guy reading this, and iys not the first time hes flopped on a read based on current events. killitwithfire. and a rope.

vote: ika

so explain them. apparently you are lynch material if Im joining a wagon, and long/frequent posts =/=town.

as far as nachos request I claim, wifom under the bridge. hes not town to me,and he would have reason to say that no matter his alignment. dont generate content where there is none to be had.

Yea youd be stupid to lynch me without the rest of my reads.

pedit. youll wait for my to finish or have my blood on your hands.

emotional appeal.

cold logic is what I want. is yourplaystyle anti-logic?

nope lynch me. but you are scum, and bjc youre a sheepdog.

:/ hes scum afraid of taking any flak. the imagination is scarier than any reality.

He wanted to be sure he was justified.

pedit: look at this. ^^

'arrgh n' rage, pkopfound me out! hve a slice of emotiin while i flail at the loss of my towncred!'

I will be iso-ing him. i cant believe you guys were willing to lynch a flat lurker ina noobie game D1.

ray, if ika is scum, who takes a towncred hit?

LMB, where are you?

tier, you come off as null to me despite your defense of my slot. anything to say?

pedit: if i read your iso begore monday ~1400 ill post something. the town surely understands how annoying quotes and phones can be?

but youre scummy.

[fferyllt]

I'm thinking about Tier. My vote's currently on Sakura, though.

[fferyllt]

Intent to hammer.

But, Nacho, I'd like your opinion of Sakura's posts over the last 5 or so pages.

[fferyllt]

I said why they're town posts. I'm giving you an answer that is about tone, timing and tempo as much as it is about content. In fact more so.

I feel like I've had a really unique view of the latter part of this game day due to watching pisskop without context and then reading through the whole game, seeing how his slot was viewed early on and then going back through his entry into the thread while knowing much more about the players he was interacting with.

In all three iterations - quick ISO of his predecessor with the intention of replacing into that slot, Watching his first few hours in the game without full context, and then doing a full catch up, I came to a town conclusions.

If he's scum I'll have to take a long hard look at my life.

[fferyllt]

I'm actually ok with more talk first, and wouldn't mind someone unvoting for a bit while we do that.

[fferyllt]

Town. How is it a slip in any way?

Scum drop associations. Town notice them.

[fferyllt]

Town-you didn't see what I saw as obvtown in a bunch of other players in the Indie uPick Micro IIRC.

I'm trying to figure out why town-you wouldn't make some adjustments after that.

[fferyllt]

I'm going to go through emeraldemon's ISO again before I consider hammering. Ray says he has a solid scum read and I want to understand better why that is.

[fferyllt]

UNVOTE Sakura

I'm going to be afk for 2-3 hours. plz don't hammer anybody while I'm gone. I've got more stuff I want to do before nightfall.

[fferyllt]

I'm back. Something resembling a wall or two are in the works.

[fferyllt]

Sorry for being gone so long, signing up for three games simultaneously was a mistake but I'm still going to try to win this thing.

I know this isn't the most useful, but here's what I was thinking as I caught up:

176: I don't like the way ika just throws shit around. Bleh... could be town though

182: "I have had a bad expeince with ppl makign cases and have them flipping towns and then follow them again." I can deal with the terrible spelling and grammar (although I wish I didn't have to), but I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say here.

193: this sounds a lot like the case I made earlier, except with quote walls.

225 & 227: I agree, except about ika.

246: So saying anything with confidence is a scumtell?

256: Hard to put my finger on, but bjc sounds so submissive all the time, feels bad to me.

257: "if i die due to nk. Plz look into nacho/teirshift as scums" wtf is this? Why would anyone nk you? Don't like.

282: Whaaat? No.

355: Abbott never quite makes my radar ping either way. Everything he does seems reasonable, but kinda bland or something.

376: "if i end up dying" This again. Someone who knows what's up, is constantly saying you'll get night-killed a scum tell? Cause I'm thinking it is.

386: Oh man, I went from town vibes to scum partner. That's what I get for being AFK I guess.


UP TO DATE READS

TOWN
Nachomamma - I agree with almost every post from him that isn't about ika
lynch me bro - newbtown all the way
RayFrost - I like your ability to write in complete paragraphs
Abbott - null still
tiershift - aggressively townreading me, not sure if this is a test
ika - badfeels
bjc - probably scum
Rob W - The real test will be if we get him to L-1
SCUM

bjc and Rob are tied for last, I am fine with lynching either. I will put some more thoughtful posts together in a bit.

@emeraldemon what made you feel that a lurker with 4-5 posts was comparably scummy to a player with a ton of posts and stances to evaluate?

[fferyllt]

I don't think this is good scumhunting, but it's also hard for me to imagine continuing to play this way if ika and bjc are scum partners. Also I could be wrong about this but I think scum tend to be a bit more sticky in their reads, hesitant to put down a solid read, but pushing or tunneling on one person once they've voted. I don't like these votes, but on review I don't think it's a convincing scum case.

How did you develop this impression about scum play tendencies?

[fferyllt]

I'm here. I'm thinking.

Hoping to see a little more from Ray about his emeraldemon case.

[fferyllt]

By reading and playing and thinking I suppose. Scum don't have to weigh all the evidence, they're not uncertain or paranoid about who's town. They really only have two reasons to change reads: to push an opportunity (like a town wagon) or to fake being town. Of course good scum will do that, but I think it's hard to do fluidly and realistically.

Your play and the theory behind it is pretty thoughtful for your apparent level of experience. I know that lingo and theory rub off quickly based on who new players encounter in their early games. But, in your play it seems pretty internalized already.

[fferyllt]

Very slightly. It would probably have shaken me more if I hadn't already talked about scum and the value of fake-claims in newbie games (though it applies to all games, actually, but fake-claiming in non-newbie games is usually as much about survival as about flushing out PRs as they crash and burn).

I know Ray doesn't like one-game meta, but I played a recent game where town-Tiershift was mislynched on an (admittedly quite complicated) day 1. I'm not getting the same vibes here at all.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=34263

I was the Zoya head of the 3-headed hydra called Trine.

[fferyllt]

I plan to hammer TS. I'm holding off because I want more input from Ray and Nacho if at all possible.

[fferyllt]

I may not be around at deadline after all. :/

[fferyllt]

How about some reasons to go with those votes.

[fferyllt]

Yo, so somebody ISO tier, abbott, hana and search for these names

---abbott

hana = 0 (:neutral:)
tiershift = 1 (1 match, defug?)
TS = 3 (only in read lists)

---hana

abbott 0 (yup, surprise)
tiershift = 5 (???)
TS = 16

---tiershift

abbott = 5
hana = 0


the only other person who holds a candle to this is LMB. But he's town.

analyzing Hana's posts on Tier seem to suggest me being town clears Tier. Game, set, match.

I know we all kinda dropped it but its still here. 'sakura' returned 9 results instead of the 2 for 'hana' in tiers iso.

which meant that 2 were the names of quotes and one was a mention of how he called 'hana' 'sakura'.

they already knew each others alignment.

This game ended today: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=35946

They both played it.

There may be other games they've both played as well.

[fferyllt]

I was going to vote ED. ED turned out to be the cop, so I'm a little shocked there.

My next group consists of ffery and hayate but I need to look over Sakura's posts.

Why is hayate in your next group?

[fferyllt]

I was going to vote ED. ED turned out to be the cop, so I'm a little shocked there.

My next group consists of ffery and hayate but I need to look over Sakura's posts.

Why is hayate in your next group?

Do you think hayate

shouldn't

be in that group?

I'm not sure. My slate is pretty close to wiped clean by the night kill atm. It's not at all what I expected to see at the start of day 2.

So, why is hayate in your next group?

[fferyllt]

Nacho.

[fferyllt]

Nacho.

ffery?

Why do you think pisskop is scum?

Don't give me that statistical shit, either. Statistics work in aggregate for trends, but what we have here is a data point, not a trend.

[fferyllt]

Nacho.

ffery?

Why do you think pisskop is scum?

Don't give me that statistical shit, either. Statistics work in aggregate for trends, but what we have here is a data point, not a trend.

[fferyllt]

poe i never believed in any statistical shit

Hm.

Have you read his completed newbie scum game? I scanned it for tone and textual body language on day 1 after I replaced in. I'll take a look at the night kills.

ED was the only player who still had a strong scumread of him, I think.

[fferyllt]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33701

The player who was the night 1 kill had him as town on the prior day. He quickhammered the cop on day 1 and wasn't quicklynched the next day.

The night kills may have been planned by his scumbud, TSO, though. The mafia QT link wasn't posted in that game thread.

[fferyllt]

Nacho,

What's your Sakura read?

did you look at the interactions between Sakura and me on page 49? And her earlier interactions with pisskop?

She didn't vote Tier until after I said I was going to and you put a vote down. Prior to that, I don't think the Tier wagon was really going anywhere.

[fferyllt]

I got a pretty good townread on them, but not as good as pisskop.

I could be biased because I would totally have replaced into that slot. I'm going to have to marinate a while in some ISOs I guess.

[fferyllt]

Nacho do you think town-Sakura would have a null-scum read on me and not try to sort me?

The interactions between pisskop look more like the kind of misinterpretations that happen to her a lot in games with people who don't know her, and I don't think he latched onto anything alignment indicative

[fferyllt]

Hey Ray plz come talk about the game.

[fferyllt]

I am way too happy with my pisskop town read to go there without a reset and a complete reread of the game. Which I will endeavor to do.

Why did you vote Ray there for a second, Nacho?

[fferyllt]

damn.

[fferyllt]

Hi Wisdom.

I replaced in late day 1.

Tiershift was scum, lynched day 1. Now we're partner hunting, basically. I've been in kind of a holding pattern waiting to hear more from Ray. His top scum read turned out to be the cop (killed night 1) and his second choice was lynched. Nacho and I disagree on pisskop as PoE scum.

[fferyllt]

Your predecessor wrote a really good catch up post, though the post links don't work. That's probably a good way to get up to speed on day 1.

[fferyllt]

I have concerns about Sakura. If not her, then I'd look next at Ray and Nacho, no particular order atm.

I've been putting off doing a deep review of the Abbott/Sakura slot until Ray has his say. Not that there's a dependency, but I'm busy with other stuff this week. And lazy.

Hayate towned the hell out of your slot, so that's off the table afaiac atm.

[fferyllt]

@ffery
I'd like you to point out posts of pisskop where you spotted town motivation and felt that he isn't scum or he isn't TierShift's buddy. Admittedly I didn't read much of his posts as his posting style was tiring me. If you did this already, quote where you did please.

1213

1216

1230

1266

1279

@everyone else, Wisdom is town as fuck in case there was any doubt about this slot. Two tasty wagons already formed and Wisdom goes for someone who's not got a vote on him. I don't think scum-Wisdom would choose to start from scratch building a new wagon.

[fferyllt]

You guys need to link me to some games then.

[fferyllt]

But more importantly do you have any reason to think that slot is scum, Ray?

[fferyllt]

What would a conclusion have looked like?

[fferyllt]

What would a conclusion have looked like?

[fferyllt]

Who took over AbboTT's slot?

Sakura

[fferyllt]

Wisdom, you haven't really made a scum-Ray case.

[fferyllt]

ugh.


Mental note: L-1 = hammer in games with bjc playing.

[fferyllt]

pisskop.

prev page was a blur.

[fferyllt]

I suppose.

Note to self: hardcore defend scumbuddy d1 when in game with tiershift.

Heh. It's actually pretty hard to genuinely defend a scumbuddy, whose scummy things you can see and need to avoid and then make it seem like you didn't.

So, who are you gonna defend starting now?

Since I'm not scum, I don't really need to do this now do I?

I'll stick with how I've been playing, thanks. While we're here, though, can you point out to me what about ika's posting seems genuine to you?

In other news:

Hana
Wisdom
Nacho

lets lynch 'em

what changed your mind?

[fferyllt]

If ray flips town I'll worry a lot more about scum-nacho.

But, I want to understand why pisskop went from that post I quoted to hammering Ray in less than a page.

[fferyllt]

Wisdom if the game doesn't end with this lynch then ffs stop tunneling.

[fferyllt]

Yes, since it was a perfectly good hammer. You should be saying that Ray is probably flipping scum and talking about what happens in the unlikely case he doesn't. That's how town acts and that's how you act as town.

I did not react that way upon catching up, and I am self declaring "town as fuck" in this game.

Stop creating narratives to support your whatever it is you're using in the place of reads this game.

[fferyllt]

Wisdom, you really need to have an answer to this:

do you think, that if I was scum in this specific situation, that I would start playing this game and interacting with you and attempt to change your read on me in twilight? or would I shut the fuck up and kill you?

[fferyllt]

Its rather perturbing that these two games will ruin my reputation.

But, Killing you seems to have been a plus, Ray.

I still like Wisdom/hana lynches.

What does this mean?

[fferyllt]

Ohh, a comment to a finished game.

That doesn't answer my question.

[fferyllt]

Wisdom, you really need to have an answer to this:

do you think, that if I was scum in this specific situation, that I would start playing this game and interacting with you and attempt to change your read on me in twilight? or would I shut the fuck up and kill you?

Simple answer: he's going to kill you instead of me, since you are considered far more town, while there are people who still find me scummy for whatever reason.

Your simple answer hasn't applied to scum-nacho/town-me since I dunno...May 2013, probably.

[fferyllt]

Maybe.

This is a really interesting mix of players for day 3.

[fferyllt]

And I'm not going to. I said what I didn't like. I'm not going to go through the effort of reading walls when we have 3 lynches to use.

That reminds me I should go find where AbboTT obvtowned

I hope you went through the effort during the night phase.

[fferyllt]

How about we take pisskop out of Wisdom's proposed plan and substitute Sakura into it? We can start with her, then progress to RF, then Nacho/player three.

Why would scum pisskop kill bjc?

[fferyllt]

Nope ffery, I'm lazy. All that matters is the slot ain't scum.

Your laziness arguably got town lynched yesterday. We might have lynched town anyway, but probably not someone who had correctly been read as town for a good portion of the game.

Look at the player list. Look at your current credibility. You're not going to drag two players in this list down one of your tunnels today.

p-edit there you go. Likely the only player who will blindly follow you today.

[fferyllt]

ffery do you know me to care about cred? You'll follow me eventually. Everyone else is town. Nacho is scum.

I'm waiting to hear from Sakura.

[fferyllt]

Eh, I've only misread you like 2 times in 14 games so

Including Newbie 1460. I think that game is factoring into your read in this one.

[fferyllt]

ffery is barely scumreading anyone, all she is doing is sitting there telling me not to tunnel. If I wasn't that sure the slot is town, I would be actually worrying about her. She's not a threat for Sakura.
She could shoot you or me? Scum would be stupid to do that, why shoot one of us instead of keeping us around to fight?
That's a very weak reason for why Sakura isn't scum. She still isn't, but all of this is weak.

Sakura and I would have very similar motivations for NKs if we were scum in this game.

I got the lynch I wanted on day 1 even though someone hammered before I checked back in by phone. If I had a strong direction I wanted to go at the moment, I'd be going there. I don't. Sakura was a non-presence on day 2 and I want a lot more input from her before I decide what I'm doing today.

You can talk about how I'll follow you eventually, but it's just talk. I'll come to my own conclusion today and I'll push the lynch that suits my conclusion.

This is diametrically opposed to what I'd be doing as scum with Nacho sitting at L-1.

[fferyllt]

Anyways, wrt bjc kill, i dont really know what to think, i think pisskop's scum, but that would be too obvious of a NK if he is, dunno if it's because he's a newbie or because i'm wrong =/

PEd: I was mostly talking about yesterday's events.

Ok, why do you think Pisskop would target bjc?

[fferyllt]

youte not. this nacho I recognize

Where do you recognize this Nacho from?

[fferyllt]

Again, why would they kill him?

I'll eventually explain everything, I can't really tell you at this point.

I think you should tell us.

[fferyllt]

Nacho isnt so scary to me, honestly.

He has a certain twist of words he applies to his posts when scum. Which is why in not playing his word game tonight.

Hanas readchange comes off as more organic than not to me. And nacho breadcrumbing about her absence helps me feel better on her.

Do you have any completed games with Nacho?

[fferyllt]

I don't see what the reason for not answering "why would they kill him?"

[fferyllt]

So you think I've been setting up a fake claim since the momment I replaced in? wow...

No, not since the moment you replaced in.

[fferyllt]

Nacho when you catch up, we need to talk.

[fferyllt]

Consider my vote to be virtually on Sakura, but I'm not putting her at L-1 right now. No matter what his alignment, I think pisskop would hammer since he's already at L-1.

[fferyllt]

Sakura why is pisskop scum?

[fferyllt]

I know that, but I really don't understand the basis for either.

[fferyllt]

sakura has a long history of self-voting as both alignments.

It's a null tell in and of itself.

The thing that's bothering me about Sakura is that there's no meat on the bones of her reads.

[fferyllt]

Nacho plz tell me you've read Sakura's posts and you still think she's town.

[fferyllt]

ffery, i would also point you as the reasonable one in this situation and i don't want a me-wisdom-pisskop lylo to occur because it's almost certainly a loss
don't let it happen

heh. A loss for which team?

[fferyllt]

Lul.

Ff, I think I suspect him still. Its why my vote has stayed on him. This appeal is to your emotions, not your logic.

Do you think he's right, Ff?

I think it's an appeal to shared history. NY 164 history mostly.

[fferyllt]

Synopsis

MYLO was nacho, me, a basically conftown player and the last scum. The conftown player believed that there were 2 scum left - one from each scum team, and that nacho was the opposing scum.

We all knew I'd be dead the next day, and that the scum player would win in LYLO because the conftown player would vote nacho.

I spent the entire MYLO day trying to talk the conftown player out of doing that. I finally gave up and wrote a series of epitaph haiku for myself and for town.

The final day played out exactly as predicted and town lost.

[fferyllt]

more decisive than whom?

[fferyllt]

Your read of me seems to have firmed up in sort of thin air.

[fferyllt]

umm no. Should I suspect you? You're pretty obvious town to me right now.

nacho is second ahead of fferylt because

lurker, by choice or not.
cop got dirked. ed was not imo tge best nk if I were scum. not off his posts and votes. nacho seems good at sniping PRs.
Ff did super legwork i have to respect, even if I suspected ika. but tier did call ika a vi. . .

Nacho. cmon guy. you know better than this.

1) not that naked speculation is good, but Id kill Ff for being so damn indecisive/town. bjc is small change. and you? I was pushing you as backup scum hslf the game. Killing you when Ive heard almost six people say you livibg to endgame is suspicious is silly

2) bjc kill is obvious. As obvious as obvtown nacho.

3)

Yeah you should suspect me.

I'm as good or better at spotting PRs than nacho is because I spot them via tells usually, not crumbs. But, when I'm scum, I don't always kill PRs on night 1.

[fferyllt]

No. That's why I'm skeptical. I've seen her fake-crumb as town. I've seen her try to leave the rest of town subtle messages. This is kinda marginally within that envelope, but overall there's a shallowness to her play. I usually feel like there's depth in what she doesn't say in the game thread. I'm not feeling that in this game.

Could be due to the v/la and basically missing day 2.

[fferyllt]

Ok so neither Nacho, kop nor ffery have hammered a claimed PR, this makes this a bit more easy for me

Unvote
Vote: Wisdom

Unless someone can tell me why scum wouldn't have hammered

me so far i think wisdom's scum.

You can ask that with a straight face? After day 2 of newbie 1436?

[fferyllt]

Because town-me wouldn't have.

[fferyllt]

It's like you haven't even considered the possibility that nacho didn't get nk'd because he's scum.

[fferyllt]

you said on day 1 that you wouldn't worry about him unless he was still alive on day 3, too.

I dunno Sakura. Your stances don't feel right.

[fferyllt]

So nacho you feel good about Sakura? I can't tell.

[fferyllt]

So nacho you feel good about Sakura? I can't tell.

I do.

Where did my read go wrong?

[fferyllt]

So nacho you feel good about Sakura? I can't tell.

I do.

Where did my read go wrong?

I don't really understand how your read happened, honestly.

It started with these posts:

abbott = 5
hana = 0

Most people call me Sakura jsyk.

Also hi ffery,

thank god it's someone I can read.

I'll retract my intent to hammer, because kop wanting himself dead to "clear" TS looks like it comes from a townie perspective, i still want to have more words with Nacho wrt ika and kop, and ffery needs to read up and catch up.

btw ffery your predecessor was currently voting someone who's at L-1

How do you think that meshes with #608, where his attitude is suddenly the opposite: "Oh, lynch me, whatever?" In retrospect this feels kind of weird; ika pressures him to not act survivalistically, and thus instead he switches to the opposite?

Hmm... actually now that you mention it, it feels quite odd, when I came in bjc was already getting pressured anyhow and i just thought that if he was scum he would have self-hammered or claimed PR, what do you think about him wanting to get hammered instead of just ending the discussion himself right there? Maybe because ika was pressuring him and i was scumreading ika at the time (

and im still on the null-scum realm for that slot

, not in so much as TS or kop tho).

TS > kop interaction could be buddying tho.

I feel like you just claimed scum here.

If you did then your feelings are off

Well, it's you who claimed you can read me when I replaced in. If you've got me null-scum then why the hell aren't you trying to sort me?

I'm just going to say I derped and forgot all about trying to sort ffery

[fferyllt]

Ffery, why do you think scum-Sakura would be more likely to go "whoops, I forgot to sort ffery" than town Sakura?

It's not saying "whoops" it's actually not sorting that pinged.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, why do you think scum-Sakura would be more likely to go "whoops, I forgot to sort ffery" than town Sakura?

It's not saying "whoops" it's actually not sorting that pinged.

What did you expect to see of Sakura's sorting process?

I expected her to bug me for input, reads, analysis. This was intentionally a lower-content entrance.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, why do you think scum-Sakura would be more likely to go "whoops, I forgot to sort ffery" than town Sakura?

It's not saying "whoops" it's actually not sorting that pinged.

What did you expect to see of Sakura's sorting process?

I expected her to bug me for input, reads, analysis. This was intentionally a lower-content entrance.

What do you think of her sorting me?
Why do you think that you're alive?

I can't think straight because of lots of hammering and nail guns. doors being replaced.

anyway. I'd be suspicious as hell if she weren't sorting you. Trying to remember what she did about you in the Tales Abyss game. Will check back on that.

As far as me being alive, n1 was apparently pr-hunting. n2 I totally don't get. I don't know why I'd be considered more mislynchable than bjc. Which suggests that I'm considered more likely to mislynch someone else over scum.

[fferyllt]

And don't answer, of course, just keep that at the forefront of your head and know that I'm keeping it at the forefront of mine.

There was nothing player specific in my reply for a reason.

[fferyllt]

What do you think of the exchange between pisskop and I?

Once things quiet down I'm going to review all of the interactions between you two.

[fferyllt]

Nacho, doesn't kop's posts today strike you as town?

I can't even tell who you're scumreading now.

[fferyllt]

:/ Are you trying to imply Im the only one here who would kill bjc? I just told yoy that Ff was my expectation. You keep your unbackable theories on my logic out of this.

This a nasty move from you. You would do well to note I care more about controlling the dayphase than prs as scum.

pedit

vote: nacho

his excuse is my.inexperience? cmon.

Reads change, and pisskop was pretty town around that time, so..

reads change in a split second for absolutely no reason and then they change for one post before you start WIFOMing the opposite read?
nope

Yup actually
"Can we just kill kop tomorrow" in twilight is an excellent way of making scum not kill him

Was there anything else in his play this game that suggests to you he'd make this kind of "let's wifom scum!" play?

[fferyllt]

never mind the first quote. That's about something else I'm reviewing.

[fferyllt]

Is why would I be here if you are scum a serious question?

I'm pretty sure I was your strongest defender on day 1, and gave zero indication of rethink on day 2.

[fferyllt]

Who are you?

[fferyllt]

Ff, do you think Wisdom's impatience is

town

normal for him?

It's not really impatience. I think it's town-behavior for him. And that's the third player in the slot who has looked town to me.

To see how he replaces in as scum on day 2, you could check out Newbie 1436 He replaced in on day 2, tunneled one player and picked out his next target for the following day, then tunneled that player. Nothing anyone posted caused his reads to change in that game.

[fferyllt]

pisskop, I'm thinking pretty seriously about voting you. I hate giving up my day 1 townread, but there's stuff in your play today that I don't like. Part of it has to do with your demands to show you posts that prove nacho or sakura are town.

That's usually not how reads come about, and I doubt you actually approach the game that way yourself.

[fferyllt]

I'll sleep on it.

That was a good post.

[fferyllt]

actually, no.

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[fferyllt]

Yay!

[fferyllt]

I had no idea where the manipulative impression came from.

I enjoyed playing with you Ray. I look forward to future games.

[fferyllt]

Actually I'm looking forward to future games with everyone who played in this one, including some players who replaced. It was a good game. The town players played like they were town and the scum players mostly did too.

I was sad that Hayate wasn't able to finish the game. I was really impressed with his catch-up post and liked the rest of his day 1 as well.

[fferyllt]

disagreeing with nacho on 2 key reads in this game really messed with my head. I feel like he's generally better at reading you than I am. And his pisskop read was really befuddling. Last night, I reconciled to just adopting his views on the game until pisskop posted 1909 There was just no way that post was a scumpost.

[fferyllt]

^^ you in 2nd sentence is sakura.

[fferyllt]

*Thats actually an aquired skill. My job

is

was a very social one, and perceived benign transparency is awesome.*

Your play in this game was really different from your first newbie game. I felt like I was the only player in the game who had actually gone back and looked at your tone, style, reactions, and reads in that game. Keeping that game in mind as a sort of baseline helped a lot. But, I had niggles that your rate of change as a new player could account for the differences in the two games.

[fferyllt]

ffery, I noticed the difference in play for pisskop between the two games (I was actually IN his first game, which helps) but the "feel" of his posting was the same despite the slight differences in everything else. If you get what I mean. At a base level, the angle he seemed to be coming from was the same.

That was maybe more evident from inside the game than from reading through it after the fact.

[fferyllt]

Thanks for modding GiF! Your flavor was quite flavorful! Shame about the mango.