NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

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Play nice, or gtfo.

Reported

Objection overruled.

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Happy scumday Flubz

Ty ty

Was waiting for someone to notice

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Wait fuck I meant I didn't even notice myself

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I think inferno flails by now if they're scum

I don't feel like entertaining elbrin's schtick as scum. Will entertain an inferno tunnel as scum.

I'll read the worst trolling as the wagon grows on them as town for now

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I will read better than a skim tomorrow provided the thread doesn't blow up.

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By flailing, I meant inferno is not spending much time if any defending themselves over scumhunting. They're prone to 1v1 iirc

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Elbrin,

LAMIST is the cringiest acronym right before IANAL, but it's usually used more to describe what used to be called posturing than shading towntells.

I must go back to the source of these accusations and investigate

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Agreed. In my onion I think the first reaction test (elbirn) is fine but the second one (rask) a bit LAMIST especially considering he never really followed up on it other than his read on inferno.
VOTE: rask

I don't think rask has done anything shady but would still entertain him as scum coasting

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Aww fuck I'm super behind now

I'll have an hour to read what I can read some time tomorrow.

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Read up to page 11.

All this "liar"talk gives me a feeling that Gustavo is being a pedant wrt inferno. I will have to confirm via iso eventually

The case on me is weak sauce. Something about coasting being scummy but not willing to call scum over it. As a rule of thumb, voting someone over one tell is a bad idea

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284 by Gustavo bothers me. They are clearly active enough to be generating information, but are still saying there is nothing to go off of

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Whilst that sounds bad for Rask I’m more interested in seeing how the 3 voters plus flubber get on - it’s easy for scum to say “bad play we must lynch it” so I’d say odds are 1 of those 4 are probably scum

Yep

Slow posters are easy pickings for scum too.

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I'm like halfway through page 13

What bothers me most about my wagon is how little the voters seem to be in pursuit of other reads than me being scum

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I checked Gus, and they seem to often get into arguments.
What pinged me though, was the one who outright called them toxic etc.
It felt like intentional provocation with the aim of getting people to dislike them..
Not sure why but that is how I feel.

This is a big monkey wrench in me attempting to solve the game.

An easy way to look town is to poke at those who are easily provoked. Yet two players that are easily provoked are poking at each other.

I think it's safe to call that town for now but blahhhhhhhhhh

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Brassherald's interactions with Gustavo seem the most genuine in determining their alignment compared to others.

I have a lot of town reads at the moment, I think. I need to get a list of those together and figure out where to start looking from that point onward.

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You all have waaaaaay too much time on your hands if you can binge read games

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Ausuka deff looks the worst out of all players on my wagon.

I want to look at the other two wagons and still need to put all my town reads down on paper

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Does anyone believe for a second that any player can be “coasting” less than 24 hours into the start of a game? Or that a Town Flubber would make that the tentpole of why Rask would be scummy.

If it were a suspicion worthy of conviction I would have voted there.

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@Flubber – Why in 367 did you not specifically point out who is not “in pursuit of other reads”? I see you’ve said Ausuka looks worst of those on you … does that me you think she wasn’t looking for reads outside of you? I need to look at Button’s game again to see how you reacted to votes there because a 3 player wagon Day 1 of a Large game hardly seems like it absolutely merits “Must be scum here” from the votee.

Well I'm being scum read off one post, sheeped off that reasoning, and a permanent scum read for one of the players in that wagon. I'm justified in finding that suspicious.

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And nobody has 100% only pursued me as a single read. Ausuka deff comes the closest though.

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Actually Flubber, could you talk specifically about why other people on your wagon are better, rather than why Ausuka is worse?

A big part of my town read on brassherald is his interactions with gavot (already forgot their name but that's close enough). I've already talked about that.

I don't know in what realm Ausuka looks more town than Moi, who is taking a strong role in leading the town and generating content.

I'd like to know more about why you're town reading Ausuka tbh

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The thing that bothers me most about flubbers posting is that their entire catch up is self focused.

It's not. I talked a lot about Gustavo and inferno, who had the majority of the posting at the time.

I have to look at the other two wagons and see how/why they composed, and their similarities with what happened to me, all while trying to keep up with the thread.

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Does anyone believe for a second that any player can be “coasting” less than 24 hours into the start of a game? Or that a Town Flubber would make that the tentpole of why Rask would be scummy.

If it were a suspicion worthy of conviction I would have voted there.

IMO this sidesteps the actual question. I looked through your ISO to see what came out of 180, if anything.
You floated the idea of coasting. Is there something you can share with us that indicates that Rask's activity during that period was somehow out of line with the norm? If not, what's the point of bringing it up at all?

It was really just that he hadn't said much. I used weak language and actions because I knew the reasoning was weak. It's early game, so this should be expected. They're pretty obviously not coasting if you look at their subsequent posts.

I feel like I'm being pressured into trying to defend a scum read on task and that's not going to happen for what should be obvious reasons.

I am also frustrated that this is the only thing my wagon is built off of because it's barely one step above wagoning me for rvs, which we should be well beyond atm.

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The majority of the votes in this game have had words around them but are effectively naked votes

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The majority of the votes in this game have had words around them but are effectively naked votes

Well Skygazer has an effectively naked ISO.
Not really sure what else to say about it.

They're not the only one. Why skygazer over Ausuka?

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The majority of the votes in this game have had words around them but are effectively naked votes

That's a nice observation but what does it mean to you?

It means this game is likely a town loss.

Why does it matter what it means to me?

Why can I say something like that and have the town take a minimal note of it and continue to play as they were?

Why are you challenging me on this instead of taking action on how unacceptable it is?

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Chick, mediating arguments is NAI because scum doesn't have to reason about alignment to be able to do it.

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I respect he's not the most active guy but I really want Dave to get back to me.

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I will hopefully have a reads list by Friday.

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Also, profii, of everyone that "wagoned" rask,why did you vote me?

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Scum reads (mostly WIP towards the top)

Ausuka - as stated before, sketchiest of my sketch wagon

Elbrin - has exactly one post that isn't fluff or related to the early flame war

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Davesaz - I totally get being more observant than talkative, but every time he posts, nothing really changes. There's lots of questions in his iso, but a lot of it boils down to minute clarifications that don't really read into motivations. A lot of his commentary is "I agree with this point or that point" but it's again looking through the forest ignorant of the trees.

I also really don't like my recent interaction with him. Dave is a really analytical guy. He can very much piece things together through solid logic. However, the only way to do that is with a solid foundation. That starts D1 with a sample of good votes and detailed reasoning. The closest he's done to that so far is give my concern for the state of the game lip service. Dave concludes that my concern is valid with nothing more than a gripe that time is finite. Totally respectable, but if that's the case, then the town thing to do is at least start a discussion on how to push the game's voting habits towards in a more effective direction.

VOTE: davesaz

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Chick, mediating arguments is NAI because scum doesn't have to reason about alignment to be able to do it.

Why would scum not just do so in a PT though.

I tend to see mediating arguments coming from town 9 times out of 10.

1) I'm counting this post as a strike against you on the grounds of PT slipping

2) 9 out of 10 is bad odds when the majority of the game is town anyway.

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1) I'm counting this post as a strike against you on the grounds of PT slipping

It's usually a good plan to read the rules -- did you?

I skimmed them looking for this and missed it *shrug*

Don't recall the rules for how it's implemented in the normal queue. Maybe that whole shtick was restricted to opens

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Davesaz - I totally get being more observant than talkative, but every time he posts, nothing really changes. There's lots of questions in his iso, but a lot of it boils down to minute clarifications that don't really read into motivations. A lot of his commentary is "I agree with this point or that point" but it's again looking through the forest ignorant of the trees.

Out of respect for Pine I'm gonna say this more quietly than I normally do.
When I say I haven't had time, that's a statement about RL, and I absolutely never lie about it.

I've noted that I am aware you are busy not once but twice

Not only that, but you truncated the second time I noted it out of the post you quoted :/

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Witholding on some other things I have to answer because I'm in class and it will take some thought to get out clearly

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So do you actually have a read on Ausuka or nah

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Im not saying it aint genuine, im saying it's a lot of word that means very little and have nothing to do with the game.

The whole line of "Im bad at lying and am thus town" is such an easy cop-out

It's tangential to my case at the very least (sorry idr the other ones but the fact that nobody on this wagon is sheeping is probably a good thing)

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Busy weekend, prodge

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Double-checked my Role PM, based off a quick ISO skim, Dave played consistent to what I know town-him to be which makes me feel better about meta-ing him accurately.

Holy fucking mother of amished my vote is not moving

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I am not a fan of post by post catch ups because I think they're easy for scum to fake, but there's nobody in this town that catches scum for letting the sky wagon keep rolling the way it is. I give xyzzy town points as such

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I have to pick apart citiations to fully respond to taly so that is currently on the backburner.

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MoI, I'm reading from your most recent post that you can't trust the town to get an easy read on the worst later in the game. Can you expand more on why that is?

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Catch up tomorrow

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IM BACK MOTHERFUCKERS

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Okay taly

Short answer to your challenge to me is that it's pretty obvious you voted me as the counterwagon that could save your ass

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Rask is town

Dramonic is probably town

Elbrin is still scum, and shame on you all for letting the "I'm blatantly acting like scum but explicitly pointing that out so it's all okay" schtick fly under the radar.

HitAlt. Awe man. In a bubble, they need to be lynched. But then I look at the context around their wagon and get super conflicted. The wagon was fast and unexplained, but that's pretty much par for the course in this game. 100% willing to compromise here towards deadline because even if they're town, lynching them devours scum of a nice slot to divert attention to them.

I'm kind of entertaining hewhoswims as scum because he's less town looking then the last time I played with him and he was actually scum that time. I'm not willing to put too much stock in that though because it's bad meta with a sample size of 1, but I'm pretty paranoid since they stumped me before.

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Okay I'm going to do a quick skim for questions that were addressed to me and answer those. I will probabaly miss a lot so if they're still relevant to the current game state pls address them to me

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What is your theWorst read BTW?

Okay, so this read is even worse "ew meta" than the hewhoswims read.

Basically I remember scum reading him super hard in a newbie game for coasting. But I don't remember what his alignment actually was to make whatever weak conclusions I'd be able to from that.

So the deal here is that I don't remember a damn thing he's done this game and don't really know how to sort that. That's why I'm so interested in any information you can give town on discerning his alignment. It sounds like he's got a pretty night/day Town/scum game so I'm not as concerned as the tells being out on the table causing Heisenberg issues as I normally would be.

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Okay taly let's dance.

Your first reach out to me is in 640. You're asking about me investigating into Rask/Profii being lamist and if that flows into my scum read on Dave somehow. Right out of the gate you're spewing nonsense at me that's hiding within your seas of text.

Next in 689 you take issue with me not having solid reads when I'm far from the only one with this issue. Why is this only problematic with me? How were other players of my activity level memorable enough for you to consider them town?

You also take issue with me being suspicious of Gustavo even though he was obviously a controversial player and I came to the conclusion they were town anyway.

I'm also going to ask you a question. What posts of Elbrin's do you believe are advancing the game?

Also, despite you being able to post with lots of detail, you can't dive any deeper into my read on Dave other than "flub is wrong." This is extra bad considering a decent number of townies saw what I saw.

Oh, and rmember when you said I was Scum for having "very fluid" reads? When you give a full blown reads list in 691 you had to in several different ways excuse it as volatile. So you have to know to some extent that scum doesn't fall out of malleable reads.

The tl;dr is that you threw shit at the wall to deflect attention from your forming wagon and it's not sticking at all.

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547 can you explain how exactly that expectation on dave wrt your interaction makes sense?
Dave is an analytical guy -> dave agrees with my concern about naked votes -> if he was town he would and/or should start a discussion to try to change everyones voting habits here
Going from the first two to the latter is a huge leap for me, most people would agree it's protown but unless someone does it all the time idk how you can say the lack of it is really indicative
also when in context he essentially said he'd do it if he had time so doesn't seem realistic

You don't need a lot of time to say "people need to explain their votes better." Or to at least bring it up as a reason why reads are coming slow (something akin to "I'm already slow to form reads and this isn't going to help"). Or "to eveyone on X wagon, can you explain why x is scum?"

Like I'm really heavy in my case I'm the fact that I have zero expectations for Dave to change the world because yeah, he's busy.

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100% willing to compromise here towards deadline because even if they're town, lynching them devours scum of a nice slot to divert attention to them.

Also not a fan of this. It's not even saying lynching him is fine because even if town he's playing anti-town (a reasonable stance) it's saying lynching him is fine even if town because other people would keep getting their attention diverted (thought process doesnt read town)

Can you detail the difference between the two? Diverting attention to yourself as town is anti town

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Rask, I made a big post about a lot of taly's points against me are hogwash for the sake of sitting on a convenient cw and I'm kind of curious what you think about that

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I don't see how getting everyone to pay attention to you as town isn't pushing a scum agenda unless you're adamant about a particular lynch (which deff isn't the case here)

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The whole distinction still ultimately feels like splitting hairs

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expect dave to be proactive given his lurk tendencies

Why would you ask me questions about this like they're mutually exclusive, have me explain why I think they're not, and then just continue to talk over that like they're still mutually exclusive

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he didn't seem to care

You're so close to getting it

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Pretty sure if I was telling I'd be getting wrist slaps from the mod but ok

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Yelling

Fuck

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I kinda like flubber pursuing taly with some fire though there is a specific scumtype that enjoys arguing and 1v1 exchanges as scum I'd want to doublecheck.

Scum thrive in 1v1s when they can either use them to only interact with a few people or cause town apathy and I'm not doing either.

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HitAlt. Awe man. In a bubble, they need to be lynched. But then I look at the context around their wagon and get super conflicted. The wagon was fast and unexplained, but that's pretty much par for the course in this game. 100% willing to compromise here towards deadline because even if they're town, lynching them devours scum of a nice slot to divert attention to them.

There's plenty of explanation from people that are voting for hit.

In regards to 869 flubber just seems to be attacking Taly rather than taking the time to address any of the issues or questions that Taly brought up. Seems super defensive/kind of flaily, do not like.

Most of the explanation i saw revolved around some honeypot thing and an ego thing about how we should trust their reads. I think town do both things, making HitAlt an easy wagon for scum to coast on. I'll give the actual votes more scrutiny when time allows. My eyes start glossing after a few pages when I catch up.

Taly's issues don't hold water. I very much did explain that, which is addressing, so I don't really understand your point here. I didn't answer one question, because I think it's loaded. I'll quote elbrin's post for posterity later today when I have time.

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inb4 "why not vote hitalt"

There's some actual veracity to this given you are aware of the looking deadline and are voting a vanity wagon

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Also didn't realize dave/taly was a vanity wagon

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Also not comfortable with hit alt at l2 yet

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Actually

VOTE: hitalt

I don't think today has any loose ends sans a catch up or two

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Spoiler: the one post from Elbrin with content that doesn't involve tunnelling inferno

@Both of you, What made that post notable or good when it was nothing? Like it's really self serving for Rasko to like it so lul

Fwiw this was about when I decided Inferno was an early townread. I don't really think you're interested in why I found the post noteworthy though? Like let me know if you're after something here.

Actually yeah I do want to know, which was why i brought it up. The post was apparently enough for two people to declare it the first "GoodPost" of the game AND to get a town read off of it, but at the time I rolled my eyes at it. I want to know your thought process.

Re 184, I'm not going to say I have a great explanation, but dramonic's posts just feel like scum posting. It's pure gut, and no real evidence, yeah, but, like everything feels like he's too calculated, I guess would be the right phrase, to be town.

I also don't think 482 is a town post, but, again, I can't quite put my finger on why.

My dramonic read is purely instinct, and I cannot read his posts and tell my stupid instinct with my brain that it's being stupid.

Those tags lead to your own post and the OP, so I'm assumin you screwed up something in there
Also I might come off as calculated because I have to actually think about how I post. My normal posting style is not chill at all. XD

Disclaimer I don't know Dram hardly at all but can confirm that my impression of him from speakeasy has been the opposite of chill and seeing all these xD smiles faces and such is like being winked at by Lucifer

But someone else I’ve been stuck on is Elbirn. I keep rereading his ISO and thee is something really odd about his posting. I can’t figure out what though.
VOTE: Skygazer

Boy you do not get to jump on a flash wagon for no reason while also shading me. Tell the class why I'm a scummy scum butt

Should be good now

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The bigger point being that task is g having a lot of issues committing to a vote

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Flashwagons are ugly in larger games and I've seen them on several occasions cause no lynches

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Elbrin - has exactly one post that isn't fluff or related to the early flame war

@elbrin

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I'll quote elbrin's post for posterity later today when I have time.

Also this

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I completely missed that there was a dramonic wagon

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I will pick up my pr9d later today

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As of page 44 the xyzzy wagon has a bad composition and flashwagoning players who aren't active enough to respond is scum motivated.

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By the last vc my vote looks like it is still in a good place.

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When I flip town, lynch elbrin, and his scum flip will implicate hit alt.

Don't forget taly is scum.

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Sorry I wasn't around enough.

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If there is scum between profii and the worst it is probably the latter over the former.

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BEES!

Also, I guess Flubb is not claiming?

Derp

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When I flip town, lynch elbrin, and his scum flip will implicate hit alt.

Don't forget taly is scum.

Why do you link me and hitalt but not me and taly when I just talked about them, but also while scumreading them?

Because you had the most opportunistic vote on the wagon (esp considering your lackluster play) and the lynch was between me and HitAlt.

Though literally in the post you quoted I call taly scum and not only did you quote it, you kept the part where I call taly scum, so I guess youre just pointing another blatant scum tell that everyone is going to ignore

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I was gonna take the time to write a case on all the bullshit MoI just spewed at me.
But then I realized I didn’t feel like it tonight and I’m gonna have plenty of time to do it D2.

How quaint. Rhetoric as opposed to actually refuting the "bullshit".

Glad you had time to spend all that time writing an "outraged" bunch of empty words rather than actually trying to suggest where I was wrong in my assessment. ++Town points for the righteous anger I'm sure it will play well.

This is trite given how telling my lynch is

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Blah. I thought trite meant irrelevant