NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Inferno390]

Are we still in RVS?
We are? Great.
VOTE: worst

[Inferno390]

Also, Risk is a stupid game. Let's play Munchkins instead.

[Inferno390]

I'm not mafia this time

Having a hard time believing this

[Inferno390]

vote: inferno

zzz

Harassment

[Inferno390]

Aw sweet I rolled scum! That's one down guys, climb on board!

VOTE: Elbirn

Ah look, some WIFOM, this will help us

I take it you don't want on this ride? I mean. I'm giving you a freebie here. Why won't you take it? Don't you want dead scum?

Gosh fricking darn, Elbirn!
On one hand, this seems like such a troll thing to say, it’s almost NAI.
On the other, this response pings me to all heck. It feels totally off.

[Inferno390]

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

I would hardly call this scummy. It’s well within RVS. It is odd tho.
I would vote you Elbirn , but I’m flip flopping like crazy.

[Inferno390]

Mmmm I thought about it but I'd really rather commit to my gimmick here

I'd really like to find out why infernos pussy-footing around voting me, for example

Because the WIFOM in your scumclaim made me incredibly unsure on how to interpret it.
This, however, feels off. It seems like you’re trying to use me as a way to do a 1v1 to look more towny.

[Inferno390]

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

I would hardly call this scummy. It’s well within RVS. It is odd tho.
I would vote you Elbirn , but I’m flip flopping like crazy.

No lynching on day 1 is actively not scum hunting

Self voting is super dumb because it is wifom between omg is he brave scum or is he OMG double bluffing for reaction tests- at least in town!elbirns world he is reaction testing but the question I would ask is, let me know if you get anything useful? You generally don’t


Ideally I say we move on from both of these but no voting on day 1 in my mind is worse than a self vote haha.

I agree that a No Lynch on D1 is a bad idea.
But I also think that during RVS, something like that can’t be read at face value. There is simply not enough info to make a call on whether it’s scum behavior or not.
Now, if we get later into the day and the slot still seems fishy, that’s when I’d come back and say that this was sus. At this point tho, the WIFOM element in play is too strong to make any sort of call. It’s just discussion generating at best.
On another note, I would almost call scum doing this sort of this a triple bluff, where the whole point is to lead people into thinking it’s a double bluff. IMO it’s not nearly as bad as self voting in RVS, because that generates like 0 discussion while a No Lynch at least generates some.

[Inferno390]

OMGUS
VOTE: Elbirn

This whole drive on my thoughts feels very forced.
Will explain myself further, but I’m on mobile right now.

[Inferno390]

Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting?

And if so is it in any way alignment indicative for him?

Asking for a friend ...

LOL

[Inferno390]

@Elbirn
Okay, so here’s what I’m seeing. You self claim as scum. Profit points out the WIFOM. You immediately begin this passive aggressive push on him. That on the front looks like scumhunting, but feels totally off. I say I don’t know where to place you because on one hand, what you’re posting reads trolly town but tonally feels a lot more like fishing for a 1v1 than for scum. You accuse me of pussy footing. I restate my reason and say that I don’t think that Rask’s play is scum indicative at this point. You come back and tell me I’m wrong about Rask and then ask me why I think he’s doing it, which is a really odd series of events anyways, and then you question my read on what you’re doing, complain about me voting you, and then vote me for pressure.

At this point this whole thing feels like an attempt to maneuver yourself into a position where you can 1v1 and do a bunch of LAMIST stuff under the guise of that. The whole passive aggressive thing feels very sus.

Also, I find it amusing that people are saying that Rask’s vote generates no discussion while we’re sitting here literally discussing it.

[Inferno390]

Hmm what an interesting rvs. Time to test out my new chainsaw.

VOTE: Elbirn

VRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR-

FRICK GUYS
ARE YOU TRYING TO WAKE THE BABY

[Inferno390]

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

I am actually inclined to give both Elbirn and Rask slight town points for their entrances. Slight.

Elbirn has since lost the town points, for pushing his entrance and running with it.

But I like that they both went against the crowd, because it stands out. It's a moment in the game where it's acceptable to go with the crowd and throw any old vote out there. They didn't have to stand out, but they went with the option anyway.

I totally agree with the last paragraph here. I’m going to add the point that this is RVS, we’re literally going to talk about anything against the grain right now due to lack of anything else to talk about. So the argument that self voting or No Lynching is poor play is bogus IMO. Town would discuss White House policies if it helped us to find scum. So all in all, the play isn’t bad. It’s just totally NAI at this point in time.

[Inferno390]

Also, before I go any further:
A) Gonna claim Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Lazer Beams Out Of Its Ass now so it’s out of the way.
B) I’m actually underage, so the only beer I’ll be drinking tonight is root beer.

[Inferno390]

Okay, so I’m summing up three pages worth of thoughts on mobile, so bear with

Post #118: @HWS the way I see it is that based on Elbirn’s reactions her that as scum it would be an attempt to pick a 1v1 with someone and get a bunch of early town cred through that. I’ve seen plenty of games where getting into a 1v1 and bearing down on it can cause people to take it as TvT.
Post #124 is really good and Dave gets townpoints for that.
Post #130: I agree with this, especially since that by this point my use of LAMIST has been twisted from it’s original purpose. I never called the votes themselves LAMIST. (See my note on #118.) The fact that my idea is being indirectly misinterpreted pings me highly.
Post #144 makes no sense to me. How is not posting LAMIST again?
Post #145: I’m really starting to think that Profii is missing the subtleties of this RVS.

Other notes that are not necessarily tied to any posts:
Gustavo’s lack of contribution is staring to irritate me. Seems scummy.
Everyone keeps asking where Flubbernugget thinks I flailed. I haven’t flailed yet, and isn’t that kind of his point? Based on the wording, Flubbernugget is implying that I’m not scum, not that I am scum.
I don’t like how much TW is moving around without real reasons, but maybe that’s just me.

[Inferno390]

If hate to be that guy, but can you please use post tags?

I'm definitely not going to be reading those posts either of you referenced.

Trust me, I would be, but I’m on mobile, so it’s an extra ten minutes of pain in the ass.

For

some

definition of not flailing.
<a href="tel:76-80-81-88" style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">76-80-81-88</a> is the least organic progression I've seen in a long time.

I’m offended
I’m sorry my train of though is too special for people who I have never played with before to understand

[Inferno390]

Inferno... meet Gus.

I think Profii took the entire ordeal way too serious but I don't hold that as scummy, but NAI - and I doubt scum!profii would try to gain town cred by coming off as scum because as we see some people scumread him more often even when he's town.

TW is amazing and you can expect a lot of fluff and I have a feeling I might have a bad read on scumduck at times

Lol

I agree with you on Profii. I’ve played with him before, so I know he can be scummy D1, but that’s comfortably in what I know to be his meta.
I’m gonna suggest that the proper play on TW is tolynch him mid game if no one has a strong read either way on him yet. It’s the safest play.

[Inferno390]

Gustavo’s lack of contribution is staring to irritate me

But I’ve contributed so...

All you’ve actually contributed is a tunnel on a player who is known to read scummy regardless of alignment anyways without much explanation. The progression also reads AbN to me, which doesn’t help your case.

[Inferno390]

AbN is Assumption Before Narrative. Basically it means that Gustavo was calling Profii’s play scummy and then coming up with reasons for it to actually be scummy.

Do it, brass.

[Inferno390]

AbN is Assumption Before Narrative. Basically it means that Gustavo was calling Profii’s play scummy and then coming up with reasons for it to actually be scummy.

Do it, brass.

Have you played mafia before?

Well this is incredibly evasive. I agree with Chickadee on 186. This is pretty flaily scum.
I’m just gonna shoot you so I can go on to hunt your buddies.

Dayvig: Gustavo

[Inferno390]

AbN is Assumption Before Narrative. Basically it means that Gustavo was calling Profii’s play scummy and then coming up with reasons for it to actually be scummy.

Do it, brass.

Have you played mafia before?

Well this is incredibly evasive. I agree with Chickadee on 186. This is pretty flaily scum.
I’m just gonna shoot you so I can go on to hunt your buddies.

Dayvig: Gustavo

How is that envasive? You accused me of something that almost every player does. Scum reading somebody and explaining why is like the foundation of mafia.

You’re missing the point.
In mafia, what you do is form a case and then judge someone based on that case. In AbN, you assume someone’s alignment and then build a case around the assumption.

Ex.
“Player X has been doing this, so he’s scum.”
Vs
“Player X is scum!”
*Player X does something*
“See? What Player X sis is scummy! Die scum!”

Your progression is firmly of the latter.

[Inferno390]

I’m done
VOTE: Gustavo

There’s not even any defense coming from him. He’s just calling me a liar and being evasive.

[Inferno390]

I’m done
VOTE: Gustavo

There’s not even any defense coming from him. He’s just calling me a liar and being evasive.

I’m not being invasive and I’ve called you a liar cause as I’ve shown you have lied multiple times.

I don’t have to defend myself from lies.

Where exactly have you shown anything? And asking me if I’ve ever played Mafia before in response to me explaining my point is being evasive: You’re avoiding engaging with me because you don’t like what I’m saying.
Stop being toxic and calling names, SCUM. We don’t want any of that here.

[Inferno390]

Dramonic, it looks like you want to add your two cents in. Thoughts?

[Inferno390]

Brass, one thing you should know about me is that I’m way too hot to be cool.

In hall honesty tho, I was coming into this game intending not to get dragged into heated arguments. But this whole Inferno390 is doing nothing but lying thing is incredibly frustrating, because it’s blatantly not accurate.

And he other thing is that calling me a liar in this situation is pushing it anyways, because a some of what I’m saying is open to interpretation, which I’m totally okay with. Maybe the way I see his progression and his posts differs from his or yours, which would make sense. But to straight up call me a liar because he doesn’t like what I’m saying is ridiculous and makes me feel like he’s scum trying to blow me off.

[Inferno390]

Almost 9 pages already before 24 hours are up? Do you people not understand what a chill game means?

Yeah, right? Seriously people, help yourself to the booze. That's what it's here for.

As I said before, I’m underage.
Got any Coca-Cola?

[Inferno390]

I’m done with Gus at this point, he’s confscum at this point for me. Elbirn’s post on me feels very strong. As for Rask’s motivation, I honestly think it was just RVS and he was messing around. Also, @Elbrin I had nothing against your self vote. It’s the responses that came after it that felt off. (Oh, and that wall post is nothing. I’ve seen way worse.)

[Inferno390]

@Brass, is constantly being on Mobile a good enough excuse for you?

[Inferno390]

Why are all you peeps ignoring scumFlubber?

I mean voting Gus who has been a toxic jerk probably feels good but just because he is pompous and condescending doesn’t mean he is scum. Just that he’s a bad player in the wrong game.

This was completely unnecessary. I’d appreciate it if people please stop calling me toxic or a jerk or tbh any other sort of name calling. Let’s act like adults ok?

If you don’t want to be called toxic, then don’t be toxic. The fact that you are being called toxic by several people now should clue you in that despite your beliefs, you are being detrimental to this game and need to figure it out.

Thanks.

[Inferno390]

Just took a look at Flubbernugget ISO and ehhhhhh
I can see where the scumread is coming from.
I’d like a little more from the slot before I join the wagon though.

[Inferno390]

I feel very baited but whatever.
@Gus: Here’s a question. What’s with the progression from 63 to 164?

[Inferno390]

Also, I think that the definition of being evasive is something like “avoiding commitment by responding indirectly.” And responding to everything I say by saying I’m a liar is a a pretty good way of doing that, wouldn’t you agree?

[Inferno390]

I THINK

That it doesn’t matter because it was just an RVS vote (which more often than not is just people jacking around at the beginning anyways) and Rask obviously didn’t actually want a No Lynch anyways, so let’s all stop talking about it because it’s not helping us hunt scum.

[Inferno390]

I THINK

That it doesn’t matter because it was just an RVS vote (which more often than not is just people jacking around at the beginning anyways) and Rask obviously didn’t actually want a No Lynch anyways, so let’s all stop talking about it because it’s not helping us hunt scum.

[Inferno390]

I have issues with his stances so far. Self voting and no lynch voting aren’t playing against a win condition regardless of alignment. I feel like he should know better since he’s not a newbie.

He does need to make less wordy posts though. That’s why they come off as iioa

I don’t really understand where you’re coming from by saying no lynching is anti-wincon. That’s not what I’m scum reading you for though. Maybe that’s the issue? I was scum reading you when I voted you. Idk how to put it but your early posts all seem so fake to me. Like you are trying to appear town and it doesn’t come off as genuine. The whole no lynch thing was definitely some more fuel to my fire and maybe that’s why people are so hung up on that. Like I said earlier it looked like you were just throwing more dirt on rask who was already doing a good job making himself look bad and your conclusions to me don’t make sense logically. I’ve never seen anyone say no lynching is playing against their win condition. It’s not like he was going to actually gain momentum for it. Some people I’ve seen argue no lynching helps town and while I don’t agree I understand their logic. I don’t understand yours. I don’t see it coming from town unless they are a newbie which you aren’t. It’s hands down the best information available to us. Definitely better than the reasons others have given (magna for example)

Someone read these and let me know if they find any discrepancies. Thanks.

[Inferno390]

I THINK

That it doesn’t matter because it was just an RVS vote (which more often than not is just people jacking around at the beginning anyways) and Rask obviously didn’t actually want a No Lynch anyways, so let’s all stop talking about it because it’s not helping us hunt scum.

Not sure you are in the position to criticize people’s scum hunting.

How many posts have I made that involve me trying to actually discuss points and and do hunting?
And how many posts have you made about me complaining that I’m a liar and not actually contributing to a kind and calm discussion?
Thanks. Have a great day.

[Inferno390]

He means that one point you said my posts felt fake.

[Inferno390]

I'm not really sure what to say now that the thread has more or less died. I'm gonna probably ISO a few people and see if I can form some early reads and generate some discussion.

[Inferno390]

I checked Gus, and they seem to often get into arguments.
What pinged me though, was the one who outright called them toxic etc.
It felt like intentional provocation with the aim of getting people to dislike them..
Not sure why but that is how I feel.

Are you talking about me or MagnaofIllusion?

[Inferno390]

I have played against and read games where TW was scum and his play has read the same way D1 as it does now. It may be to early to tell IMO.

[Inferno390]

@Gustavo
And what exactly are your reasons for calling Profii scum?

[Inferno390]

@Gustavo
And what exactly are your reasons for calling Profii scum?

[Inferno390]

Read up to page 11.

All this "liar"talk gives me a feeling that Gustavo is being a pedant wrt inferno. I will have to confirm via iso eventually

The case on me is weak sauce. Something about coasting being scummy but not willing to call scum over it. As a rule of thumb, voting someone over one tell is a bad idea

What do you mean by “Pedant?”
I wouldn’t say voting on one tell is a bad idea, but I’d argue that your “coasting” is NAI.

[Inferno390]

I would like to point this out.

I have issues with his stances so far. Self voting and no lynch voting aren’t playing against a win condition regardless of alignment. I feel like he should know better since he’s not a newbie.

He does need to make less wordy posts though. That’s why they come off as iioa

This post clearly contradicts what Gustavo is claiming his read is based off of right now.
Which is why I asked that question earlier.

[Inferno390]

How is that post false? All I did was look in your ISO and find it.

Or are you implying that I made that qoute up completely to make you look bad? Because if that’s the case, anyone can go to the post and see that what I’m saying is clearly true.

[Inferno390]

I also don’t know what you intend to prove I’m lying about. You say that your read on Profii has nothing to do with the no lynch stuff. This post I pulled from your ISO shows you clearly stating something else. There’s nothing to prove I’m lying about here. All I’m doing is comparing two statements.

[Inferno390]

Cool. I’m waiting to get a wisdom teeth consultation rn, but once I get home I’ll finish my first ISO.

Perot. Same.

[Inferno390]

Pedit not Perot. What the heck IS A Perot?

[Inferno390]

Yeah, I’m gonna have a v/la on Friday at least. Getting my wisdom teeth removed that day, so I’ll probably be in no condition to make logical discussion until Saturday at the earliest.

V/LA acknowledged.

[Inferno390]

So I was reading back through looking to generate discussion and found this:

I kinda like the effort to make content from both of them.
Liking it doesn't mean I find it AI, any alignment can feel a need to make content happen.

This is really non-commital. The thought pattern feels off too. Thoughts?

[Inferno390]

#anaesthesiaposting

Lol YAAAAAAAAS

[Inferno390]

I also want to hear more from Chickadee and anyone with less than 20 posts.

[Inferno390]

@Magna:
I’m not sure why you’re getting so upset over the amount of posts I have. Yes, I will agree that I have considerably more posts than many other people in this game, but it’s not like I’m just sitting here being spammy. I have been at least trying to produce game relavant content, whether it’s generating discussion or defndimg myself of pressuring others. And though I have made some fluff, this was not intended to be a super aggressive game and I’ve kept it to a low amount. I am also posting from mobile most of the time, which means that I am going to generate smaller posts most of the time because I don’t want to spend 20 minutes typing on a phone.
But I’m a player that likes to stay in the thick of things because it helps me get reads on people. I’m gonna be pretty active. It’s part of my playstyle. If I want people to people to post more, it’s because I want them to provide more to the discussion so I have more info to work with. I have a very analytical, information driven playstyle. So I want more posting and thoughts from the less active players.
It’s not really that I think that people haven’t posted enough either. It’s just that the game driving content has mostly been coming from a few different sources thus far. So I want the people with the least posts (and therefore the least game driving content) to give their thoughts, generate some discussion, and share their reads, so that I in turn can gather more information and make better reads.

Does that make sense? I’m really not trying to call anyone out on lack of posting. I just want more to work with going forward now that I’m not in a bad 1v1 with someone.

[Inferno390]

So I was reading back through looking to generate discussion and found this:

I kinda like the effort to make content from both of them.
Liking it doesn't mean I find it AI, any alignment can feel a need to make content happen.

This is really non-commital. The thought pattern feels off too. Thoughts?

Two people did things that I saw as reaction tests to end RVS.
That is a good thing.
I don't think that doing it is AI.

Does this help you understand what I said?

I guess.
What I don't understnad is why you would say that you liked something and then come right back around and say "ehhh but it doesn't ffect my read at all because it's NAI." It seems weird.

[Inferno390]

I just did another read through on Sky and there is something definitely scummy about her posts. I can get behind this wagon.
But someone else I’ve been stuck on is Elbirn. I keep rereading his ISO and thee is something really odd about his posting. I can’t figure out what though.
VOTE: Skygazer

[Inferno390]

The majority of the votes in this game have had words around them but are effectively naked votes

Well Skygazer has an effectively naked ISO.
Not really sure what else to say about it.

[Inferno390]

See, what really bothers me in hindsight was the fact that Gustavo started acumreading Profii by saying he didn’t like his stances on no lynch, and then came back about 200 posts later and said that Profii’s stance on No Lynch had nothing to do with the read. The fact that when I pointed out there wasn’t even an attempt to defend the point doesn’t help either, but that’s a pretty big discrepancy that I’m having trouble moving past.

[Inferno390]

I think you overestimate some people's abilities

How is that an overestimation? Is it really too much to think that someone can have a consistent, naturally progressing read?

[Inferno390]

That is a weaksause response. A good read doesn’t go back and contradict itself when re-examined. You’re far too old of a player to be saying that this sort of discrepancy just “happens.”

That’s enough to garner my vote.
VOTE: dramonic

[Inferno390]

Man you are gonna be really disappointed with people.
Not everyone is like that, but players like Gustavo are clearly [REDACTED]

Well I’m not gonna deny that.
But even a player like Gustavo doesn’t just go around contradicting themselves that explicitly between two posts. And it would have been one thing if he had said, “Oh, your stance isn’t great, but another thing that bothered me more is...” Sure, it would have been odd given the thread so far, but I can least see that making some sense. But that’s not what happened. He came right out and said “Oh, I’m not reading you because of this, it’s actually something else.” And previous posts showed that that was expressively not the case.

[Inferno390]

@Elbirn: I never said you were scummy. I just said your ISO was off and I didn’t know why.

@Flubber: It’s post #115. Calling Rask’s RVS vote LAMIST is a far stretch to begin with, and then there’s the fact that I started using the term first at that point and it got plucked out of it’s original context to be used to attack Rask. It feels very piggyback-y.

[Inferno390]

@Elbirn: I never said you were scummy. I just said your ISO was off and I didn’t know why.

But then what does this even mean? If feeling like I'm "off" doesnt mean that you feel like I'm scummy then what even do you intend to convey mate?

There’s something tonally pinging about your posts but I can’t tell if it’s just your playstyle or something else.
You’re not necessarily scummy, just someone I need to take another look at so I can sort you.

[Inferno390]

See, I would argue 286 at the point that what if one of those players IS scum? Then it would make sense for scum!Ausuka to try and draw attention away from that situation to reduce the chance of a buddy incriminating themselves.
I don’t, however, think that that post alone is enough to call Ausuka scum. If Gustavo or Profii end up actually being scum, I’m gonna come back and look at this. But for now, it’s more of a null post than anything.

[Inferno390]

@Elbirn: I never said you were scummy. I just said your ISO was off and I didn’t know why.

But then what does this even mean? If feeling like I'm "off" doesnt mean that you feel like I'm scummy then what even do you intend to convey mate?

There’s something tonally pinging about your posts but I can’t tell if it’s just your playstyle or something else.
You’re not necessarily scummy, just someone I need to take another look at so I can sort you.

Nah.

What do you mean by “nah?”

[Inferno390]

First things first: Andrius, that’s one heckuva wall. Are you gonna use that to keep out the Mexicans?

That being said, I do have a few questions and thoughts.
A) What was the point of that spoiler? I feel like there is very little game-moving content in it, but maybe I missed something?
B) Why does it feel to me that you have stronger reads on the people with less posts and weaker reads an the people with more posts?
C) What exactly about my post count makes me hard to parse? Shouldn’t having more posts make it easier to read me? Or are there factors within the context of those posts that’s making it hard to read me within them?
D) How much fluffposting exactly do you estimate I have, since you brought it up?
E) Would you elaborate on your Profii read?
F) Why do I look worst on the SkyGazer wagon?

Some of your reads seem non-committal. Especially on Profii, Flubbernugget, and Magna, I feel like you’d have much stronger reads on them based on content/posting. And your read on davesaz seems wishy-washy. I would love to hear more thoughts on all of them.

Gonna take a look at Ausuka and Magna now and get some thoughts on them heading your way.

[Inferno390]

@Elbirn:
I think it may be just your enterance. IMO it seems incredibly pushy to get votes handed in your direction, which I find odd. I’m not sure why you would push people to vote yourself.
The more you post though, the better I feel about you. There doesn’t seem to be any fakeness to your posting, and you’re making good points and spreading pressure around in the right spots.

If I had to place you, it would be a strong town lean.

[Inferno390]

@Andrius: On Ausuka, I’m not really impressed with her posting. Most of her contributions have actually been defending Profii and your slot. There’s not a lot of reads of her own in there or original thoughts in terms of hunting. She’s really just sheeping on her wagons rn. Probably a scumlean.

@Ausuka: Are you ever gonna actually give us a read on Sky or no?

[Inferno390]

Hey all! Recovering from surgery pretty well, so I’m popping in to catch up and try and to some solving. I’m on mobile again tho, so bear with.

Interesting.
I added dave to that honeypot of mine mainly to round it up nicely with Chick and Sky. But it seems I had a good hunch there too.
We lynch SkyGrazer today,

and if they flip town

, you just go see my ISO and find the post where I said there's scum already in the wagon.
More or less guaranteed.

dramonic, you mentioned something about leaving back doors open. What do you think of this?

[Inferno390]

Side note, not sure how I'm feeling about your posting so far. I feel like you've taken every chance to mention that you're town. And bumping someone because they town read you is baaaad.

Agree with this. I do think the posting and the reads are strong tho, so I’m unsure on where to place this read.

On another note, what is the bias against using “buzzwords?”

[Inferno390]

Okay, makes sense

[Inferno390]

@Elbrin: Yeah, that’s one of the things that really pings me. About Taly’s enterance. Anything else about it you don’t like?
Also, talk to me about hit. I want to hear some opinions on him.

[Inferno390]

VOTE: Andrius

[Inferno390]

@Magna: so you’re going to base your entire read on The Worst based on a single previous game where you called him correctly?

Sounds like a 7for7 to me.

Liking Hit less and less here. He’s really starting to feel like he’s trying to force his way into a position of town power, and that strikes me as scummy.

[Inferno390]

@xyzzy: Wanna pressure Hit?

[Inferno390]

Lol
VOTE: HitAlt

[Inferno390]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Wouldn't surprise me at all if {profii, inferno, gustavo} is all-town. Last two have tunnely playstyles but yeah that's NAI. Still suspect skygazer but this is good too.

Also brassherald is town.

And how is

brass

town again?

Why are you so sure

Gustavo/Inferno/profii

? At this point, you haven't really said anything about the

Inferno/Gustavo

1v1, even though it was escalating.

Brass has been kinda obvtown. Also iirc he Creature-level hates playing scum and it doesn't look like he's hating this game.

"wouldn't surprise me" =/= "so sure". Inferno feels genuine and I've played with him before, he plays like this as town. Gustavo is actually a really obvious alt of someone I've played with multiple times and I don't think this is abnormal coming from him- and again he just felt genuine this game. I've already given thoughts on profii I believe.

Yeah, I completely disagree with this assessment on

Gustavo

and I dislike how

brass

handled this.

-

Gustavo

was stating that the reasons on him weren't really based on pure, constructive game reasons - or ones that he could do little but dismiss. I feel like he was genuine here.

-

Gustavo

took a step further and said that he wasn't going to entertain people having a negative response since it likely wouldn't lead to a help in the game.

-

Brass

misconstrues this as "don't scumread me", even though that's bordering a misrep, it's a very superficial means of looking at his post and it's oriented in making

Gustavo

seem undignified in his thoughts.

Plus, why is it bad for someone to defend themselves?

Why would town want to submit to their lynch? Why would scum want to submit their lynch?

You state beliefs here that a) Gustavo is saying that he's not going to entertain people having a negative response to his posts and b) Gustavo is saying that he will defend himself from attacks. How do you believe both of these things?

@Taly: What you are saying about your thoughts on Dave and the tone of previous posts about your thoughts on Dave do not match to me. Would you please expand on your feelings about your slot?

@Ausuka: When have we ever played together?

[Inferno390]

EBWOP: whoops, didn’t mean to quote that.

[Inferno390]

Oh yeah, I’d forgotten about that game. That was fun lol.

[Inferno390]

Lol
VOTE: HitAlt

This is easily the worst thing you could do at this point.
Join a wagon on a player we actually should and/or can lynch today.
Whether you like my antics or not I am not scum, and will not be lynched this game. (or on this alt for that matter unless town enjoys trolling)

This makes me laugh.
A very weaksauce attempt to blow off pressure.
Plus, we still have all week to deliberate on a lynch. At this point, putting some pressure on the person I think could be scum is perfectly reasonable.
I’m not going to be time pressured into sheeping a wagon with a week until lynch. Nice try though.

[Inferno390]

Gonna sit here and suggest that the wagon on Flubbernugget has been scum engineered. I’m looking at his ISO right now, and while it’s not great, it’s tonally strong and there’s nothing pinging about it anywhere. It reads as genuine town.

I want to take a much closer look and when, why, and how this wagon formed, because it’s starting to feel like this wagon has been set up to draw heat off of scum or a scumpartner and place it on mediocre posting. Because right now Flubbernugget reads a lot more like lynchbait than actually scummy play.

[Inferno390]

@Magna: You say that you will be able to read scum!TW solely on the idea of whether you die at night, based on a single previous experience in a game.

Not only are you instating major WIFOM in that alone, but you are overlooking the fact that scum can kill a player for a variety of reasons, so a scumteam without TW could still logically kill you, perhaps even for the previously mentioned WIFOM. So A) you dying at night can potentially set up town!TW for a bad fall, and B) scum!you not dying at night indirectly softclears scum!TW. Which I'm not saying either is true, I'm just pointing out that there are parts of your "read" that are detrimental to town.

Plus, the phrasing you are using to defend this point still feels like a 7for7. Which is not necessarily scummy either. 7for7 is not a scumtell. But it does make me trust your read on TW less.

@Brass: I'm not sure yet. I want to go back and reread the events surrounding the start of the wagon and see what comes out of it. I also want to hear everyone's opinion on why Fluuber is scum.

[Inferno390]

Rask, next time you link a game like that, make sure you mention that it’s specifically an ISO. I literally started reading the game and was like “huh, this was a short game, only 3 pages long,” and “huh, this seems like a pretty long 1v1 early for TW and HitAlt.”

So for the sake of all the stupid people, make it clear it’s an ISO.

[Inferno390]

Is the "he" being discussed on this page HitAlt?

Nope, we’re discussing God.

[Inferno390]

The point dramonic is trying to make is that HitAlt is not taking a hard stance on anything in the game, which is scummy in his opinion.

I agree, and furthermore find it scummy that he refuses to take a hard stance on anything while aggressively trying to push his way through everyone to a position of town authority.

[Inferno390]

@MoI: Ohhhh okay. Yeah, that’s just bad parsing on my part. Thanks for clearing that up. Townpoints headed your direction.

@Taly: I swear I will get to dissecting the Flubbernugget wagon before the day is over. I really need to sit down a computer to do it tho, and I have not had the chance to since The post you are referring to.

[Inferno390]

@TW: Why are you defending Hit? He’s become more and more flaily the longer pressure has been applied. Doesn’t that at least trike you as somewhat scum?

[Inferno390]

K so TW+HA is pretty much locked and flubs is essentially conftown.
Progress

I dunno.
Unless Hit+Flubber is a thing, at least one of them is lynchbait. And though I totally think that this stuff from HitAlt doesn’t come from a town perspective, I’m not going to say I haven’t been wrong before on reads. So reading TW by association at this point seems premature. Especially since beyond Hit, there’s nothing really that’s struck me about his posting as scummy.

Then again, there’s not much from him that has really struck me in general...
But still. I’ll wait for a flip before I jump to conclusions.

The other thing is that at this point in the wagon, it actually doesn’t make sense for scum!TW to be defending his partner so hard. Should Hit flip scum, it would completely incriminate him. I have both played against and read scum!TW: He’s too smart to do that.

The way you are setting up Duckling for a bad fall tho seems like exactly something scum would do, dramonic.

[Inferno390]

Then we can lynch Taly first after HA since everyone and their grandma has a boner for keeping TW alive

You —————->
The point

[Inferno390]

Er

The point ——————>
You

[Inferno390]

Funny how you move from accusing Duckling for defending Hit when it becomes obvious that it’s bad play to pushing a lynch on the one person that a large percentage of people have said they feel uncomfortable with their posting.

Phenomenal cop out strategy, except for the fact that I’m not stupid.

[Inferno390]

And I’m telling you that TW+Hit doesn’t make sense because of how hard Duck is defending Hit, and good scum would not do that this late.
Which was what my point actually was.

Oh, plus the shade on you for using bad associations to try and pin scum on Duckling. But.
And you’re lovely response to that does not make me feel any better about you.

[Inferno390]

And I’m telling you that TW+Hit doesn’t make sense because of how hard Duck is defending Hit, and

good scum would not do that this late.

Which was what my point actually was.

I assume you mean early? (or late in the day/wagon?)
I agree good scum would not do that, but I've never played a game with TW, so at this juncture my options are bad town defending scum or bad scum.
I'll take my 50-50, thx.

Late in the day.
I would please like you to point to one good reason a scumbuddy would still be hard defending his partner at L-3 with only a handful of days remaining.

Now, while I’m at it, I’m going to parse all possible combinations of Hit+Duck.

Scum!Hit+Scum!Duck
Doesn’t make sense for reasons stated above and previously.

Scum!Hit+Town!Duck
This is what I’ve been looking at for the last few pages with this wagon. Duck only makes sense as Town in a Hit!scum world.

Town!Hit+Town!Duck
This seems unlikely based on play from both, but it’s not out of range of possibility. Which is not to say I think that Duck is not Town. But based on the interaction between him and Hitwagon, plus the lack of any other striking posts, concerns me should Hit!Town be a thing.

Town!Hit+Scum!Duck
This actually seems reasonable. Which again, I’m not saying that I think Hit is Town. But this lynchbait talk is getting me spooked, and should I be wrong, Scum!Duck makes sense here. I mean, scum could grab major town cred for hard defending a mislynch on lynch bait like that. And TW hasn’t really given a reason why HitAlt is Town imo. That plus his lack of any strongly Town posting... I’m looking at Suck hard depending on the flip.

[Inferno390]

EBWOP

Duck at the end there, not suck.

[Inferno390]

Well, that was a scum response.

How about some reasons beyond vague speculation?

[Inferno390]

Yeah, like
Hit, I’m gonna be blunt. Your playstyle screams scum. Tonally, it does not feel like it comes from a town stance, and the way you’ve been read weak is driving me up a wall.
But I am acutely aware that lynchbait is a thing. And I know when to back down.
Plus, this whole dramonic exchange... really bothers me.
You’re not off my naughty list yet. But:
VOTE: dramonic

P-edit: I think that dramonic means you’re a scum PR.
But either way, it’s a real weaksauce excuse for his read on Duck. It sounds like it was pulled out of left field.

[Inferno390]

To be clear, a lot of that last post was aimed @Hit.

[Inferno390]

No, I am asking you to justify associating Duck with Hit given his play. So far all of your responses don’t actually hold water, so

[Inferno390]

Close to deadline?
We have 3 days.
And why Elbirn specifically?

[Inferno390]

Okay, I just reread dramonic’s ISO and
Yeah, I’m 90% sure now that this is scum. Everybody come help me pressure here.

Why, you may ask?
-Early game, dramonic does hardly anything to interact with the game until #604, which is the top half of page 25. So very little real hunting from him early game.
-He refuses to explain why Gus is Town because of “chill rules,” but when I point out Gus’ major inconsistencies, his only response is “you’re gonna be disappointed with people.” Plus, in #472 he talks about Gustavo’s argument and how he has to convince himself as scum and such. What argument? There was no arguments being had. So weak case for town!Gus, especially when challenged
-He provides little in terms of actual reads
-the davesaz wagon consists mostly of “you’re not being transparent enough” and no other real points and concerns are being stated
-he’s actually just sheeping the Hit wagon. He’s added no relavant content to it
-he’s done a total reverse on TW with no progression or reasoning except for that he’s defending Hit, who isn’t even confirmed scum yet
-Is passive aggressively tunneling Taly despite giving no reads on him after davesaz replaces out
-only provided original reads on davesaz. No other original content from the slot after that exchange
-Posturing pretty hard for accusing someone of posturing and not doing anything

That’s a lot of yuck from dramonic.

[Inferno390]

@Brass: I care!
So please, tell me more about how I’m scum.

[Inferno390]

@Brass: I care!
So please, tell me more about how I’m scum.

Your voting seems very opportunistic. And, up until that last post, all of your reads seemed wishy-washy to me.

The last post might move you to scumlean rather than scumread, but I need to consider it.

I can get on board with this read.
This is a major town point for brass.

[Inferno390]

Talk to me about your other reads brass. Dramonic? Taly? What’s going on inside your head?

[Inferno390]

@Elbrin, you’re killing me. Can you give us some reads with foundations to work with plz?

@Brass, while I like your reads here, I want to go into detail on them for a minute:
Do you think there’s anything to he way dramonic has been disitantly scumreading Taly ever since his replace in?
What dod you think of davesaz’s replace out? I felt like it was kind of forced, but I’ve never played with him before, so I’d like a second opinion.

[Inferno390]

NOw that I can sit down at a computer, I'm gonna start calling BS.

-Early game, dramonic does hardly anything to interact with the game until #604, which is the top half of page 25. So very little real hunting from him early game.

Before that point I discussed reads on you and Gus, which is basically 80% of the in-game posts by that point

Oh, yes, your two posts saying: "Gus is town because of his 1v1" and "Gus is a specific type of player that makes what he did town, so Andrius is conftown."
And notice how I said "little hunting?" Plus I address your read on Gus below, and in context, it's more of taking a position on the current topic and trying to use it to push a replace in as conftown. (Which, by the way, your conftown claim is a bit of a stretch anyways. But that's another point.)

-He refuses to explain why Gus is Town because of “chill rules,” but when I point out Gus’ major inconsistencies, his only response is “you’re gonna be disappointed with people.” Plus, in #472 he talks about Gustavo’s argument and how he has to convince himself as scum and such. What argument? There was no arguments being had. So weak case for town!Gus, especially when challenged

Pretty sure anyone except you and Hit would understand exactly what I'm saying here.

Wow. Talk about blowing people off. dramonic, I don't know what sort of playstyles you think exist, but in what world does someone COMPLETELY REVERSE ON THEIR REASONS FOR A READ?

-He provides little in terms of actual reads

I've provided reads on like half the playerlist, dunno what you're smoking

I was not aware that I, Hit, the Andrius slot, the dave slot, Duck, and flubber composed 8 people. and there's about zero detail on any of them except for davesaz.
So yeah, you've given a handful of reads with little to no reasoning behind them.

-the davesaz wagon consists mostly of “you’re not being transparent enough” and no other real points and concerns are being stated

Transparency is 95% of what makes a player town.

Wrong. Good, logical, town benefiting hunting is 95% of what makes a player town. You an be as opaque as frick and no one will give a damn if you're advancing the gamestate in a way that benefits town.

-he’s actually just sheeping the Hit wagon. He’s added no relavant content to it

Again, you haven't actually read my ISO

Yes I have. And the one post you do have explaining your sheeping is more or less parroting exactly what I said at the start of the wagon.

-he’s done a total reverse on TW with no progression or reasoning except for that he’s defending Hit, who isn’t even confirmed scum yet

Reverse based on what?

Well, at the start of the game, you make it pretty clear that you think Duck is town. When he stats defending Hit, however, you just reverse on him with no outward indication of why.

-Is passive aggressively tunneling Taly despite giving no reads on him after davesaz replaces out

It's the same playerslot. I don't care what Taly has to say.

That would be called stupidity in action. You don't just ignore what a slot says because you think that the player from before was scum. At this point it's a level of confbias that isn't even dumb anymore. It's just scummy.

-only provided original reads on davesaz. No other original content from the slot after that exchange

See above

Above where? You are parroting, sheeping and generally coasting through this game, and providing little to a town-beneficial gamestate.

-Posturing pretty hard for accusing someone of posturing and not doing anything

... do you know what posturing means?

"A particular way of behaving that is intended to convey a false impression."
Such as:
Acting like you're a town leading role when you've actually done little to push the gamestate forward
Sheeping wagons and then acting like you've got some big read on the victim
Parsing a post to make it look like you're giving logical responses when you're actually just blowing of the poster's points

Other things I like about scum!dramonic:
-You've said that Andrius is conftown from the moment of his replace in an then proceeded to have 0 interaction with the slot.

That's a lovely accusation, except I've been on Taly's ass since before the replacement

-No you have not. You've posted about zip about taly except for the fact that you think he's scum. You've got no real case on him, you're just conftunneling his slot.

I did, several times. The fact youve got a confbias doesn't make things not there.

-Confbias? What confbias? I started scum reading you literally right before this post was made. What?

In conclusion, dramonic is either blowing off my points or trying to reverse the work of defending himself onto me (which is a super scum thing to do btw), not contributing to a good town gamestate, and providing reads without actually giving his own reasons for them.

If we don't lynch dramonic today, I will be sad.

[Inferno390]

@Elbrin, you’re killing me. Can you give us some reads with foundations to work with plz?

I cant right now because it would be disingenuous, not gonna act like I have insight that I don't. I will read some ISO's when I have time to at work if I can. I want to check up on the three I named above to see if there is anything there.

I'm fine with that. I just really want to hear more of your voice.

[Inferno390]

Okay, I’m just gonna say this:
The whole “I’m a good lynch at so and so point or not at all” thing is starting to get old.
It was one thing early on with Duck, who plays an excellent scum game and has endgamed me once with good play.
It’s just obnoxious when everyone goes around saying that they aren’t a good lynch today because they’ll be easier to sort D2/are always scummy D1/whatever.
If you play scummy, you’re gonna get lynched. If you don’t want to get lynched, forward the town game state more. Don’t feed out that shoddy D1 cop out. Give real definable reasons why you shouldn’t be lynched, and play towards town benefit more. Give reads. Actively scumhunt. Show us that you shouldn’t be lynched instead of just saying it.

Going back to being chill now.

[Inferno390]

VOTE: Andrius

What do you see here?

Can’t believe I missed this. Caught it ISOing Brass. Town points for this.

@Brass: this was actually a reaction test to see if I could lure out a few people that I was low-key associating with Andrius (which I’m not gonna reveal at this time because of the way the gamestate has turned). The fact that you caught it and called me out on it the way you did is a positive.

[Inferno390]

Man you're easy to bribe

Wow, snarky bait one liners and no response to my breakdown of your “defense.” So not scum behavior.
And heaven forbid I want to hear other opinions from other people.

[Inferno390]

So I’m just doing a bunch of misrep and making stuff up, and you’re not going to give a real defense because you don’t like the color I’m using?
Sounds exactly like something Town would say.
This is just being evasive and nasty because you don’t like the fact that someone’s aggressively pushing you. Stop being hurt and defend yourself. Otherwise you’re just being pissy scum.

[Inferno390]

Thanks for joining the cause Taly.
Will smack around this dramonic response once I get to a computer.

[Inferno390]

@Rask: I have not mentioned that at all in my push on dramonic. Niether has Taly. How are you coming to this conclusion on the wagon?

[Inferno390]

@Rask: It’s a combination of
1) The lack of an actual read on Duck other than defending Hit. And the entire “read” is based on mere speculation on why scum!Duck would do such a thing, none of which are any good. It’s a really weak read that dram is pushing way too hard.
This is paired with 2) the apparent reversal on Duck, where for most of the game he either only has good things to say about Duck or nothing to say at all. And then the moment Duck starts doing something that dramonic doesn’t agree with he becomes confscum. It doesn’t make sense and is honestly a pretty scummy move.
3) The entire confbias coming from every one of his scumreads. Taly, TW, Hit. Taly’s is the worst of the three (he’s more or less said he’s ignoring Taly’s posts because davesaz was scum), but TW and Hit are bad too. dramonic hasn’t even considered the fact that he might be wrong about Hit. And the fact that Duck disagrees automatically makes him scum. That’s ridiculous play, especially since dramonic has nothing to back up his read on Duck.
4) dramonic’s first response to my pressure this entire time has been to blow me off and be baity and nasty. That is not a town response to pressure.

[Inferno390]

Also, there are a lot of screwy terms in this game that I’m going to have to address at some point.
I know 100% for a fact that dramonic’s use of confbias is wrong, because I have more than once shown bad cases of confbias and have read the page on the wiki. Will get to that when I beat the living daylights out of his response.
Also, the vanity wagon definition is a little flawed. I want to go into more detail with that.

I’ll get that done when I get to a computer as well.

[Inferno390]

hey y'all sorry for going a couple days with no posts, I'm catching up now

Who are you?

Um
This slot would be called “half the game” imo

[Inferno390]

@MoI: I think Taly’s problem is not that his slot was being scumread before he replaced in and it hasn’t disappeared, as much as it is dramonic tagged the slot as scum and then has followed up with “I’m gonna ignore everything that Taly does because it’s a scum slot.” Which is incredibly confbias and horrendously bad play.

It’s stuff like post 1068 above that really show this. And it’s really, really stupid. If someone replaces out after being scummy, sure those reads don’t stand. But you don’t go around ignoring the replacements read because their play doesn’t fit your read/you’re confbiased/whatever. You at least give the player a chance to post before you go noosing him.
Because there’s this thing. It’s called being wrong on a read. And it happens. And that fact of life needs to be sucked up and gotten over.

[Inferno390]

Elbirn: please don’t. I am totally down for looking at xyzzy tomorrow. But let’s focus on viable wagons two days before deadline? Thanks.

[Inferno390]

Also, I move that if dramonic’s level of trashy nasty bait play continues, he get replaced out.
I’m sorry, but no one appreciates being treated like dirt when pressing a read. It’s only being done to piss people off so reads can be blown off, and it’s ridiculous.

@Mod

so Pine sees this.

[Inferno390]

Elbirn: please don’t. I am totally down for looking at xyzzy tomorrow. But let’s focus on viable wagons two days before deadline? Thanks.

Good Afternoon. My name is Elbirn and I don't want to lynch town and if I think someone is town I will throw a hissy fit until reality warps to fit what I want. And I don't have confidence in either hit or flub or whatever that third wagon is idk cuz where are the vote counts.

There are like 5 people posting right now. Any wagon is viable. Join me.

Okay
Fair
By my count, we have 4+ on the dram wagon and two tentative on it.
Join US.

P-edit: Okay great
I wanted to hear your voice
I didn’t want you to run off and start a wagon on a player no one is even considering 2 days before deadline
That does not help town at this point
Give us your voice on relavant topics plz

[Inferno390]

@MoI: I think Taly’s problem is not that his slot was being scumread before he replaced in and it hasn’t disappeared, as much as it is dramonic tagged the slot as scum and then has followed up with “I’m gonna ignore everything that Taly does because it’s a scum slot.” Which is incredibly confbias and horrendously bad play.

It’s stuff like post 1068 above that really show this. And it’s really, really stupid. If someone replaces out after being scummy, sure those reads don’t stand. But you don’t go around ignoring the replacements read because their play doesn’t fit your read/you’re confbiased/whatever. You at least give the player a chance to post before you go noosing him.
Because there’s this thing. It’s called being wrong on a read. And it happens. And that fact of life needs to be sucked up and gotten over.

Noting this. It’s almost like Inferno knows Taly will flip town here :-/

This is based off of a previous newbie game where a very similar thing happened: a scummy slot replaced out and our IC pushed the heck out of “it doesn’t matter what the replacement does, the slot is still scum.”
And guess what? The slot was Town.
So while I don’t know what Taly’s gonna flip, I do know that dramonic’s “read” has about zero ground under it.

[Inferno390]

Ohmygosh

I almost gave up on lynching dram today because of that flashwagon. Thank Mith we kept traction.

I’m gonna say that the xyzzy wagon is incredibly scummy based on its timing. If I had to lynch within a few wagons because of deadline, I would never choose someone who has had little to no analysis. You’re basically stealing info from town by denying them flip associations and wagon analysis.

This whole wagon feels designed to put Town in the dark D2. Makes me highly sus of Elbirn.

Lynch needs to happen within Hit/Taly/Flubber/Dram today. Sorry to anyone who feels otherwise, those flips are going to be the best for D2 position, regardless of any specific reads on them.

[Inferno390]

Of course there’s an argument that there’s at least 1 scum in the lurkers.
But what makes xyzzy a better lurker to lynch than all the other ones?
Why’s it so important to lynch lurkers that it’s worth jeopardizing D2 information?
And what if xyzzy is Town and Elbirn is wrong? What happens then?

There are far too many ways for a flashwagon like this to go wrong and not nearly enough to go right. And the fact that Elbirn refuses to work with Town on the current lynchpool by go, “Oh, here’s a lurker I don’t like! Flashwagon him!” Is super scummy imo.

[Inferno390]

That is the most defensive PR claim I’ve ever read.
It’s also very convenient that it won’t help us at all N1...

[Inferno390]

Hmm!

@Mod: does this game follow the new Normal guidelines?

Damn, good call Ausuka.

[Inferno390]

That is the most defensive PR claim I’ve ever read.
It’s also very convenient that it won’t help us at all N1...

Because my odds of obstructing a N1 kill as an outed JK would be massive indeed if I was regular

That’s not my point and you know it

[Inferno390]

Yeah it fits

[Inferno390]

@Inferno, I don't lynch for information. I lynch to kill scum like a normal person.

Yeah, so do I
But that doesn’t mean that when I don’t like the lynches for the day, I don’t go pick a lurker I don’t like and tell everyone to flashwagon them
That helps town about zero.

[Inferno390]

I gave a lynch pool of 4 if you were paying attention. Taly/Hit/Dram/Flubber.
And beyond that, not everyone agrees with your reads on those slots
Which is not saying your reads are bad
But saying that anyone’s forcing anything is false
We have a impending deadline
The last thing Town needs is to muddy things up with a bunch of flashwagons
What you’re basically doing is “I don’t like any of the viable lynches right now, I’m gonna kill someone else instead”
Which is worse than your accusation
Because at least we’ve got association and discussion around the lynchpool we have
For xyzzy we have nothing
So on the chance that you know, you happen to be wrong (or even if you’re right), you’re basically taking us into D2 cold
Which only benefits scum

[Inferno390]

This dram claim reads like scum trying to slip out of a bad situation
And I’m starting to lean toward Hit being lynchbait
But tbh, Hit’s probably going to give us the most info to work off of at this point

[Inferno390]

Trust me, I’m not moving my vote right now.
Problem is, that claim more or less killed the dramonic wagon.
And I could argue cases all day about dramonic and his claim,
but reality dictates I need to look at the other options in the lynchpool.

[Inferno390]

@Taly: I have a town lean on you and Hit. Null on flub. Strong scumread on dramonic.

That being said, the lynchpool is not based on my reads alone. It’s based on the fact that there has simply not been enough discussion around any other players to justify a lynch. I believe wholeheartedly that we should be trying to lynch scum. But there is always the possibility of being wrong on a read, no matter how good it is. And the only way to counteract a mislynch is by lynching in such a way that town gets information to work off of the next day.
Lynching outside of this pool, IMO, completely destroys any reasonable chance we have of having a productive D2.
Say xyzzy is scum. Great. One less scum to deal with. Then what? We lynched out of a hat more or less, and now we have nothing to go off of D2.
And if he's town? We've literally wasted D1 on a flashwagon.
Dramonic woud be my prefered lynch at this point. But this is the pool town as a whole needs to agree within in the next 24 hours.

[Inferno390]

@profii: Yes.
You’re a pretty strong Town read. So is brass.
I have a scumlean on Andrius’ slot.
Elbirn was a town lean, but I’m reevaluating after that flashwagon.
I don’t have much on Sky, Chickadee, HWS,!or xyzzy at this point, but if I had to give reads in 10 seconds, a very weak town lean on them.
MoI is a pretty weak scum lean, mostly gut.
Duck could go either way for me.
Ausuka is a strong town lean.

[Inferno390]

Dram's claim seems to me like just away to turn off the increasing wagon on him. He wasn't even in hammer range yet, but he acts so worried about it.
Plus there's the fact that his claim conveniently cannot be checked N1 and the fact that JK is a reasonable role for both scum and town.
and then the fact that the entire post feels defensive.


Moi is a gut read that I really want to go relook at. There's something about his early posting that's been rubbing me the wrong way. But like with Elbirn early on, it could just be me.

[Inferno390]

How to soft a vig 101

Also, Elbirn, I'd say let's go bruh, but's it's far too close to deadline to get embroiled in another 1v1.

@TW: I have no problem lynching dram today.

[Inferno390]

Andrius, your claim that the Dram wagon is troubling, since the push on him started several days ago and is by no means a flashwagon.
Your reasoning for why the other wagons have not gone through is just you complaining as well.
This last wall just sounds like you’re whining about the fact that there are wagons going on that are not Hit and people aren’t agreeing with you. Which is incredibly scummy when held up beside your “interactions” with dramonic and his wagon. Or lack thereof, shall we say.
I’m convinced now of dram+Andrius and Hit being town. Terrible town, but town.

[Inferno390]

As I’ve said, I think xyzzy is a terrible idea.
I also think that Duck has a point when he says this is role madness. Dram could be a scum PR.
HitAlt is probably going to need to be the lynch if dram is just not going to happen though. That’s what’s gonna help town the most D2.

[Inferno390]

@Hit:
Would you please fullclaim and link crumbs. Because that soft claim reads a whole lot like scum.

[Inferno390]

I've literally coasted scumgames before off the back of a good PR claim. leaving scumfucks alive exclusively for their fakeclaims is the pro scum behaviour here dude and I will stand by that.

but yeah Taly is my personal reality check, lynching a claimed jailer d1 is not a good idea even if they are fairly scummy.

UNVOTE: as I seem to have failed to do this earlier


pedit: settle down

And I have been on the brunt end of this before lol.
So yeah.
@MoI: And if HitAlt is Town...?
Your statement can be applied to any claimed PR lynch on D1, ever.
And besides, there’s about 0 chance the lynch is happening now anyways. So what’s with the shade?

[Inferno390]

Intent to hammer

[Inferno390]

I was gonna take the time to write a case on all the bullshit MoI just spewed at me.
But then I realized I didn’t feel like it tonight and I’m gonna have plenty of time to do it D2.

It’s nice to know who 3 of the scumteam is tho.

However, I am gonna say this:
The next person who pitches a fit about “buzzwords” is gonna get smacked.
Because what everyone is saying is a “buzzword” is actually a legitimate way of describing certain ideas.
It’s only lazy when it’s being thrown around just to make your posts sound better. Which is NOT what I’ve been doing.
Which is exactly what “buzzword” has become this game; a lazy fallback to discredit other people’s reads without actually putting work into it, simply because they happen to be using more complex terms.
Shade is not a buzzword. It is a term describing the specific situation where a player is implying a read without coming out and saying it.
LAMIST is not a buzzword. It is a term describing a specific situation where someone acts very townie and then pushes the fact that they’ve been townie as a way to get town cred/avoid lynch/etc.
Stop using “buzzword” as a lazy cop out.

[Inferno390]

Hey Inferno stop using buzzwords they're bad

*mentally smacks*

[Inferno390]

YAS

NICE SHOT VIG

VOTE: Andrius

If you are Town, you should sheep this. I will post a full refutation of MoI and also fully explain on Andrius when I get to a computer (at work rn).

[Inferno390]

No
Hit talk to me
Did you do some sort of investigation on dram?

[Inferno390]

Because I am now basically conftown now brass. And my association chart says that Andrius is the most reasonable for lynching.

[Inferno390]

So
brass, why coming in with Taly?

[Inferno390]

Frick
So much has happened in the last couple of hours
And my phone is at 7%
Bear with me, guys

[Inferno390]

You all should really sheep me on Andy
And I swear I have a really tight case on this, it’s just long enough that it’s going to be easier to do it at a computer than mobile.

[Inferno390]

You all should really sheep me on Andy
And I swear I have a really tight case on this, it’s just long enough that it’s going to be easier to do it at a computer than mobile.

Andy is Town. Don’t waste your effort.

Because...?
So while you sit there and give reads with nothing behind them, I’ll just go ahead and put together the association case that incriminates you and your partner, m’kay?

[Inferno390]

And for the record - things getting down to the wire in the game with no obvious scum suspects left around?

Someone who hard pushed Dram AFTER the claim is scum. Because there was no way the lynch was going through after that claim due to all the reasons stated yesterday. So easily within reason that scum took that window to hardpress for Town cred by pushing for Dram to be lynched when it was completely safe to do so.

If I recall correctly that was basically Worst / Inferno / Brass.

So if the game somehow gets to like Day 6 or 7 with maybe 1 Mafia left don't forget this post people.

Wow
the bs in this post is
Just wow

[Inferno390]

Omg omg omg omg omg
AAAAAAAANDYYYYYYYYYY ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡

I dont know how any of you can question the alignment of the Gus slot. It's a prime example of a specific kind of player that makes really clear slips as scum. Like scum has to convince themselves of their own argument before they can convince the town, and I don't think for a second that Gus thought he could be wrong. That doesn't come from a scum mind.
Which is good cuz it means we can conftown the single most wonderful person ever ♡

Currently not at home, but ill prolly vote flubs once I get back and reread. His most recent posts have been less than stellar.

I think you overestimate some people's abilities

[Inferno390]

Okay
Now that I'm at a fricking computer, let the wallposting commence!

First, Andy:

To start, you've got to remember that Andy is in the Gustavo slot, which is super important.

Now, first there's this:

Omg omg omg omg omg
AAAAAAAANDYYYYYYYYYY ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡

I dont know how any of you can question the alignment of the Gus slot.

It's a prime example of a specific kind of player that makes really clear slips as scum. Like scum has to convince themselves of their own argument before they can convince the town, and I don't think for a second that Gus thought he could be wrong. That doesn't come from a scum mind.
Which is good cuz it means we can conftown the single most wonderful person ever ♡

Currently not at home, but ill prolly vote flubs once I get back and reread. His most recent posts have been less than stellar.

This is really bad for the Gus slot. Gus was literally sitting there calling anyone who challenged them a liar, and more or less trashing on people in general.
So, what did Gus exactly think he could be wrong about? What arguments was he convincing himself about? What sort of scum has to "convince themselves of an argument?"

This is a really weak read, and by no means does it conftown anybody. Which by itself would be bad, but then there's the fact that dram was scum...

Then, when I pint out what was imo the worst part about Gus, his logical inconsistency, the response is:

I think you overestimate some people's abilities

This makes no sense. There's no discussion of my point here at all. It's basically saying "it doesn't matter because this person is town." Except dram has given a incredibly weak case on why Andy would be town. And he never comes back to the read. IT's just a naked "Andrius is town."

But here's the kicker: Andruis returns the favor. The entirety of D1 they naked ly have townreads on each other. Andrius NEVER explains his read on dram. Dram never goes back and soloidifies anything on Andy. and when confronted with this, ther response is immeadiately "oh, the other is town."

Which would be great. Except 1) Dram is scum, and 2) there is ZERO interaction between the two slots.

They never interact with each other. They never talk about reads or talk about each other's reads. They never follow up on the reads on the other slot. The silence is deafening.

Why would two players who are mutually townreading weach other NEVER have any interaction on reads?

And now we come to D2.

Andrius' play entering into the phase is the weakest so far. It's literally a naked push on Chick becasue she's prod dodging. There's nothing behind it. It's picking on lurkers.
Andy has no read on Chick other than she's lurking. And remember Flubber?
Lurking alone is NOT a good enough case at this point. Lurking could apply to half the game at this point.
Plus, Andy's play reads like someone fighting to et into a town position, to push the town in a certain direction. Over a lynch that is shaky at best.
And the one person who was calling him conftown was actually scum.
And the one person he was naked townreading was actually scum.
Need I go on?

Now, to MoI. Gonna break down the two worst posts:

And I have been on the brunt end of this before lol.
So yeah.
@MoI: And if HitAlt is Town...?
Your statement can be applied to any claimed PR lynch on D1, ever.
And besides, there’s about 0 chance the lynch is happening now anyways. So what’s with the shade?

This post gets special attention because I want to specifically show the point where my early Townread on your slot was revoked and I want everyone to not lose this post in the spamming we have had lately. I think this post shows a significant amount of scum not Town perspective. I’ve been giving Inferno some leeway on what I thought might be innocent misreading (the one that most looms to mind is the “You are reading worst solely on being Nightkilled”) but that ship has sailed.

Let’s analyze each element of this post which I find filled with scum red-flags.

First let’s address the “And if HitAlt is Town” straw-man element. This is a pure discrediting tactic and one that doesn’t bear any resemblance to things I have actually said. I have not pushed HitAlt as scum. Nor have I suggested that claims should not be examined. Yet the whole thrust of this post is to suggest I’m willing to wagon HitAlt regardless of claim.

Now let’s deal with the logical follow-up element – “Your statement can be applied to any claim”. This is another soft discredit element. Of course my statement can. Never said or inferred it could not. However Inferno ignores the important element of analyzing claims – that powerful roles have a much higher downside if a mislynch occurs than non-powerful ones. Jailkeeper, even one with an oddball Night restriction, is a potent Town role. In a quasi role-madness game a scum JK is much more likely to get caught fake-claiming actions. Thus even if Dramonic is scum he’s very constrained to being able to justify any actions he gets to take (and frankly given the likelyhood of verification methods available to Town he is likely to be caught before N2 if he is scum) with reads. So if he even makes it to Night 2 he will have to provide reads that support his claimed action that have to stand up to scrutiny and cross confirmation. Yet Inferno paid zero consideration to this in his push to say “You have to lynch him he’s scummy and scum can have PRs”. The upsides to lynch Dram as scum when he’s a dead man walking if he is are far outweighed by the downsides of mislynching his claim as Town. And make no mistake – if he is Town that’s a real claim while if he is scum fake-claiming he’s absolutely doomed. If Dram had claimed something like 1-Shot Vouyer or whatnot he hangs as the mislynch downside is minimal. But he didn’t and Town has to consider the possibility they are wrong and weigh the risks / rewards ratios. In a Large game it makes little sense to lynch Dram based on his claim D1 no matter how strong your read is.

Lastly we end with “Why the shade” which is a double whammy.

First it is exactly the kind of buzzwording people like Taly have been decrying. The suspicions I posted 1225 are direct suspicions based on scum motivations. Yet Inferno seeks to handwave and minimize those suspicions by suggesting I’m not scum-hunting but “shading” him.

Secondly look again at 1225 and then look at that sentence and notice the huge disconnect. In 1225 my suspicion of Inferno (and worst / brass also) is based on a hypothetical – Dram being Town and being flipped in the future. Inferno is dead-set that Dram is scum. Town Inferno who believes as strongly as he does in Dram-scum shouldn’t really have such a reaction to 1225. After all I’m only positing he’s scummy in a scenario Town-Inferno doesn’t think actually exists. So why attempt to discredit my gut-reaction to that push when he thinks Dram will never flip Town? However … scum who feels they got caught making a scummy push on what they know to be a mislynch have every reason to defend themselves in a scenario that should not factor into the actual game-state if he was Town and actually reading Dram as scum.

TL-DR Summary – 1230 is full to the brim of scum-oriented posting and Inferno is now out of my Town reads.

1) I want to point out that this is a classic Chainsaw Defense. I am being attacked and my posts are being "torn apart." I. The strongest pusher on the dram wagon.
2) The "Straw Man" Element: This is not at all what I meant by HitAlt being town. My point was that if Dram is a town PR, we lynch here and here and here, and if we lynch Hit, the softed PR, we lynch... where? This is really just pitching a fit about the people on the wagon. Because we started the wagon on Dram, we should get lynched.
Also, "at least two would be scum" is pretty bs.
3)The second part of this, when summed up into a single sentence, reads as, "Let's not lynch Dram, because his role will make all clear in time." This reads suspiciously like "Keep scumPR alive as long as possible." And the accusation that I payed zero consideration to my push is nonsense. MoI is ignoring everything else about Dram because he's claimed JK. Claim analysis does not make everything else fly out the window. And pinning "Scum can have PRs" on me is nonsense-- I wasn't the one who started that, I was just continuing a good point other people had made.
4) First, shade is not a buzzword. Frick off with that. You are shading me by saying I am likely scum because I'm pushing dram, without a real case why. Second, there is another reason for me to call out your "shading." Because I'm calling you out for an attack because I'm pushing dram. I push dram, MoI responds "We should lynch in this pool because lynching PR claims is bad."

And for the record - things getting down to the wire in the game with no obvious scum suspects left around?

Someone who hard pushed Dram AFTER the claim is scum. Because there was no way the lynch was going through after that claim due to all the reasons stated yesterday. So easily within reason that scum took that window to hardpress for Town cred by pushing for Dram to be lynched when it was completely safe to do so.

If I recall correctly that was basically Worst / Inferno / Brass.

So if the game somehow gets to like Day 6 or 7 with maybe 1 Mafia left don't forget this post people.

1) There are scumspects around. you and Andy. Please read above.
2) So you're saying that:
A wagon forms around Dram.
The leaders of the wagon are actually hardbussing their Scum PR.
Scum PR claims.
The wagon leaders continue to hardbus their partner.

Doesn't it make more sense at that point for the partners to back off and go after an easier lynch? Especially since they had no way of knowing that dram was going to flip? How were they going to get towncred without the flip? Were they going to shoot their ScumPR?

Then there's the aspect of, in what world does it make sense for scum to bus his partner the way I did, to the point of him claiming, AND THEN CONTINUE TO BUS HIM?
And didn't both Duck and Brass back off of the wagon not long after the claim?

And then, MoI says that if Dram flips town, there's scum in these three slots... and now he says that becasue Dram flips town, there's scum in these slots anyways?
Really?

[Inferno390]

@Taly: I have good feelings about Brass. His reading felt strong and natural D1, and from a 3rd person perspective, his scumread on me makes sense with progression. He als came out strong today. So far a solid town read.

[Inferno390]

I perhaps have a CC on TW, but it would require some flips first.

[Inferno390]

I’m so lost at this point
I’m gonna have to find a computer and reread the day like 3 times to make sense of everything.
moI and Andy is still the scumteam tho.

[Inferno390]

No wait
I’m gonna claim now
Might be important
I’m a Town Vistor
My visits have no discernible effect
I visited dram last night
And I received no confirmation from Pine on the usage

[Inferno390]

I guessing my role does SOMETHING
I just don’t know what yet
Or if that’s even correct
But

[Inferno390]

Ehhh
I can get on board with the Elbirn wagon. Taly’s case is pretty solid.
VOTE: Elbirn

[Inferno390]

Got up late this morning and two things strike me:
Chick’s super aggressive defense and refusal to share other modifiers is bothering me a lot.
Also, what if the reason people are calling out as SK is because the are trying to hide a larger scumteam behind multiball?

[Inferno390]

Note on the flavor:
An elf wouldn’t be able to use a 10-Foot Pole anyways. They’re too short.

[Inferno390]

In other news, I think Skygazer’s Profii call above is a deflection tactic to try and take the focus on the association between her and Elbirn. Not liking it.

[Inferno390]

@HWS—I’m a Town visitor.

[Inferno390]

Okay, that “how to soft a vig” comment from me was literally me just running with a joke. I in no way thought it actually meant anything, and if it did, that Taly thought that TW was a vig. But I was really just fluff postsing, because that progression didn’t even make sense at the time.

@Brass—you got my prayers.

[Inferno390]

HWS: I believe MoI also claimed fruit vendor?

[Inferno390]

@HWS—I’m a Town visitor.

As in, you pop up at my door for a cup of tea and nothing else happens?

HWS: I believe MoI also claimed fruit vendor?

thanks. Was there any more to the claim? Modifiers?

Yes on my count.
For MoI, the claim was odd-night and loyal I think.

[Inferno390]

Definitely Odd-Night Loyal.

[Inferno390]

Wait, so there are 2 odd-night fruit vendors?
Or one is odd night and one isn’t?
Something about this seems wrong...

[Inferno390]

VOTE: profii

FYI, I’m still for Elbirn. This is just to prevent stupidity and to push some pressure in Profii’s direction.

[Inferno390]

1918 looks like scum trying to move things along too imo.

[Inferno390]

This Sky progression reads scum. Also the move to counterwagon is very opportunistic given the Sky+Elbirn case right now.
Will lynch this pending Elbirn flip.

[Inferno390]

Okay
And I can agree with that
BUT
I have played with Profii before
and Profii does do things like this imo.
I played in one of his newbie games and he same sort of scenario played out
Not nearly the same wording, but the underlying tone does feel right.

And the fact that you jump all over the counterwagon for your hypothetical partner doesn’t make me feel any better about you.

[Inferno390]

I have a plan for N2 actions, but I need to know HitAlt's role plz.

[Inferno390]

Oh. Must have missed that.

Okay, so here's what I'm thinking:
Let's lynch Elbirn.
Then, upon a scum flip:

TW shoot Profii
Hit investigate Sky

[Inferno390]

This should cover all loose ends we have right now on scum!Elbirn. Not sure what to do yet on Town!Elbirn.

[Inferno390]

*Ahem*
Does anyone have anything to add to my N2 game plan?

[Inferno390]

MOI is oddnight so coordinating this probably isn't an issue but just in case I'll fruit vend in the bottom half of the playerlist.

This.
This bothers me.
MoI has claimed Loyal oddnight FV.
Ausuka has always only claimed Loyal FV.
Doesn’t anyone else find this discrepancy odd?

[Inferno390]

Let's not assume one MUST be scum from claims alone.
Just as we must not assume they both MUST be town from claims alone.

We'll know them by their fruits.
Pun intended. ...I'll leave now.

This reminds me of what MoI said in his chainsaw on me. It screams “let’s just let it be, the roles will make all clear in time...”
Which I really don’t like.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say hat the scumteam is between either Elbirn+Sky/Profii or Andrius+MoI.

[Inferno390]

Nope
Don’t give the replacement the chance to screw us over
Let’s lynch plz

[Inferno390]

Lol no

[Inferno390]

Gonna slap Ausuka for her scumlist on the Elbirn wagon.

@Taly, will summarize my read on MoI and Andrius when I get to a computer, it’s too much to do on mobile.

[Inferno390]

Can we please lynch MoI for these last few posts? Please?

Also, I hate to be the man of paranoia, but
Are we seriously going to take the whole block of MoI/Andrius/Chick on the face value of MoI’s claimed action last night alone?
Especially since it’s pointed out that there are plenty of ways for scum to abuse that claim?

[Inferno390]

Okay
So I’m working on my Andy/MoI summary right now, but I’m at work and it’s all on mobile and I don’t know when I’ll be at a computer next. So bear with.
However:
I read through your stuff on Profii and I have to admit that your case is very strong. I will sheep you on that.

[Inferno390]

Lmao

[Inferno390]

Cool beans.

[Inferno390]

Gonna slap Ausuka for her scumlist on the Elbirn wagon.

Not sure what you mean by this? If you mean my list of possible scum on the profii wagon- I meant that in the literal sense because for me it's not possible for raskol to be scum.

Yeah I meant the Profii wagon.
And the reason I said this is because due to the dram flip and subsequent happenings, TW is either vig or SK, and I’m basically conftown. (I’ve been floating this a lot, I know, but I dare someone to find a good case on me that takes my tunnel on dram into account. I DARE you.)

So saying TW-Myself-Sky are possible scum votes is akin to shading Sky as scum at this point. And I think that’s just blah.

[Inferno390]

Obviously, Almost50 replaces Elbirn, effective as of a few hours ago.

Thanks A50!

Thanks, Capitan Obvious.

[Inferno390]

This is why I love this game.

[Inferno390]

Wait, I’ve played multiple games with Hit before?
Who the heck are you?

[Inferno390]

Inferno

, when you have time from border-sheeping my

Elbirn

-case and my

Profii

-"case", can you actually finish the

MOI/Andrius

summary?

Yes, and I am working on it
I just have had about 0 contact with a computer for the last 2 days and that doesn’t look to change anytime soon.
The moment I sit down at a computer I’ll get it done tho.

[Inferno390]

Could you make concise bullets that don't have to involve post links or quotes?

Working on it now. Just finished Andrius D1. But I’m also at work doing this by phone, so don’t hold your breath.

Just wanted to pop in and say this though.
I realized why Hit thinks he was the target last night.
He said something about someone being so loud he couldn’t help but hear them.
This is a reference to the Loud modifier.
WHICH MEANS SOMEONE TARGETED HIM LAST NIGHT.
This is important because it means someone has info on Hit that they are not sharing, or he was really the NK and it got blocked somehow.
Ether way, this point needs to be resolved pronto.

[Inferno390]

Oh, I knew you were referring to loud.
It just hadn’t clicked yet that it meant that you specifically had been targeted at night.

[Inferno390]

@Ausuka:
So I’m not likely to be scum, but my vote on Profii makes me possible scum?
Really?

[Inferno390]

it is not likely that you are red at all but because it's possible you belong in a list of possible scum votes.

What this means is that either
A) You find something scummy about my vote on Profii
OR
B) You don’t think I’m likely scum, but you’ve put me on this list of possible scum votes anyways because...
Some reason you have yet to explain.


And you still need to give reason for why DUCK is on the list.

[Inferno390]

I don’t know how to respond to that except to say that this is the dumbest progression I’ve ever read.

Question: why would you entertain the idea of me being scum without having some sort of scumread on me?

[Inferno390]

Yes

[Inferno390]

Specifically @Taly, but this is for all.

Okay, just finished Andrius, so gonna post it now, then get to MoI. Here goes:
Summarization is at the bottom.

Andy:
First there’s the whole association with dram, which I’ve raised enough of a fuss about that I shouldn’t need to repeat it.
Then there’s post 570. There’s a couple things wrong with this post: For one, that stream of consciousness thing is actually a bunch of one liners that don’t really add anything. The other part of this post is that Andy does on. A surface level have a lot of reads, but they’re either really moldable, which feels very scum oriented, or the reads are one sentence blurbs that aren’t really reads at all (dram and MoI are probably the worst of these). It’s a very weak entrance to the game for that long of a post.
763 is also a funky post. His response to Sky over his stream thing feels LAMIST. Also, the mention of dramonic in this post specifically is bad, and the whole “compromise on HitAlt” thing feels forced.
Another thing is that Andrius only has a handful of posts from D1, many of which do not really contribute to the game state.
Then there’s 805. A post that on the surface is a “wall post,” but when you break it down it’s just a bunch of one-liners that aren’t really useful to town at all. 1032 is another post like this and also has some other problems with it, such as the response to my press on the lack of interaction with dram and Andrius’ interactions around and with MoI. It feels very tonally off.
1184: Andrius starts the post complaining about the dramonic wagon. He says that it’s too late in the day to be forming a wagon and that we should be focusing on the already solid wagons. I don’t like this, because first off, timing wise this statement is very inaccurate. Second, what this reads as is “Let’s lynch HitAlt instead of worrying about dramonic.” This, in light of our flip, is a low-key buddy defense imo. Another thing I’m noticing at this point is that Andrius has done very little to follow up on his entrance reads, which were already weaker to begin with. Also, at this point, Andy’s interaction with MoI is way off. They’re talking, but there doesn’t seem to be any real motivation or hunting behind the words.
The rest of D1 feels unnecessary from Andy. The only other thing from D1 is the post on claiming, 1240. This feels like a double move on Andrius’ part: Defending dram while simultaneously pushing for a Hit lynch. Don’t like it.
On to D2!
The first thing with Andrius is post 1353. This is basically telling Hit that he should reveal everything. Which at that point doesn’t seem very Town-oriented given the gamestate.
Also, I don’t like all the speculation on whether we have an SK or a vig. At this point, it matters about zilch, because an SK needs all the scum dead anyways before he can shoot up town. (Otherwise scum will just shoot the SK to game end.) So right now an SK is mechanically a vig anyways.
1378 is a really bad post. First it reinforces the naked town read problem with dramonic. Second, the fact that he didn’t even have a reason to keep dram alive, given the narrative, is really telling.
1426 reads like backtracking on his baseline townread.
Also, the D2 ISO is packed with a lot of technical setup speculation and has no real hunting content. Also, the banter with MoI continues throughout this phase, but nothing comes from it. It’s like they’re talking without any real thought behind it. It’s really off-putting.

So, to summarize:
Andrius has done a lot of posting without any real contribution.
There is a lot of sus interaction between both him and dram and him and the dram wagon.
His posts D2 has been far too focused on claims rather than gamemoving hunting or discussion.
Finally, Andrius’ interaction with MoI feels fabricated and holds no real reads or content.

Will get to MoI next.

[Inferno390]

I think that the lynch pool today lies in Profii, Elbirn, Andrius, and MoI.

[Inferno390]

UNVOTE:

[Inferno390]

@Taly+Brass
If we’re at L-1, I want to remove my vote from the Profii wagon so some fool doesn’t come and lolhammer. Far too early for that.

[Inferno390]

@A50
First off, tell me more about sheeping N_M.
Second, please elaborate on your reads on Brass and TW.
Third, who out of Ausuka, MoI, and I do you think is going to flip red and why?

[Inferno390]

@Hit
Gonna miss ya.
Also, who the heck are you?

[Inferno390]

@Taly: Do note that I also targeted dram last night.

@A50: Cool on N_M. I’ve never played town against him before, so I was wondering where that came from.
On Brass and TW, I really just want to hear your voice and how your reading at this point. Even if it’s pretty basic stuff, I just want more from you, because that generates discussion and reads for everyone else.
On the Visitor roles, MoI has confirmed giving fruit to Andrius, and Ausuka to Rask.
Gonna guess we have some sort of tracking investigative role. Tracker or Watcher or something. No one confirm this tho.

P-edit: This is true Brass, and might be key to cracking this game wide open. Thoughts?