Mini 2032: TAZ Mafia: Murder on the Rockport Limited [over]

[skitter30]

@xyzzy

i have regular v/la on fridays and saturdays

==

searching for a brassherald replacement.

pretty sure brass siteflaked like two weeks ago so i don't think is ai

==

Radiant, Irrelephant, and Creature are town.

ok, why?

i haven't really seen anything ai from either of them at this stage

==

In terms of the gacha vote, we should always have a tie of the top 2 or 3 townreads so scum dont know which is getting the item

@xyzzy

what happens if there's a tie for the gacha vote at the end of the day?

==

VOTE: xreckoner

i'm leaning towards nos as town so far.

rvs vote on reck, or are you scumreading him in some way?

==

VOTE: Skitter

Hi do something please

hi

i was v/la

==

he has two posts so far:
-ignoring RVS
-voting RC

He's here, but hasn't done anything towny. Seems like more than half the playerlist is eager to spew their town alignment, and he is not, and so I'm voting him. Also another thing that may or may not be a thing later

i don't understand

are you voting him for lack of content (in which case why aren't you, say, voting me?)

or is that you find these two posts scummy? (in which case, why is ignoring rvs and voting rc scummy things at this stage?)

like i can point to other people who have posted who haven't done anything towny (say, varsoon) so i don't get why you're voting reck in particular

==

maybe town nsg? not super confident in that, idk

[skitter30]

I figured it was the tone, just checking. His tone feels similar as both alignments.

Skitter's entrance feels underwhelming compared to the Presidents game, plus she's missing her trademark town pushiness & emotional investment.

you're right, i'm not emotionally invested in this game yet

there you were pushing math for reasons that i thought were stupid in like post 12 so i had something to talk about

here i read the whole thing in one go and none of it was particularly interesting

[skitter30]

Shoshin's town, guys

ye probs

I am curious to hear these reasons alos

he's a double-voter; look at the vc

[skitter30]

I was actually looking at "how" he said it too. I suggest you look at some of his scum games to clear up your townread. I don't scumread him, but I'd like you to keep an open mind about it because I don't think he's anything close to town yet and I don't want him getting complacent about the game and zoning out.

This is just posturing.

i've never played with her as scum, but she just kinda sounds like that as town tbh

[skitter30]

Meh, that's not my experience of RC. If I were scum, I'd want to irritate RC in almost all circumstances. He plays much worse when irritated.

he might decide to death-tunnel you tho so i don't particularly think it's a worth-while risk for scum to take tbh; at least i wouldn't do that as scum; i kinda see gamma's reasoning tbh

[skitter30]

Shoshin's town, guys

ye probs

I am curious to hear these reasons alos

he's a double-voter; look at the vc

lol can't believe I missed this I was staring at the post where he quoted the VC like "what? what is he saying?"
interesting. Is my inclination to assume double voters are usually town correct?

i think so? i've only been in one game with a double-voter iirc and it was me and i was town so i don't have much experience overall with it. actually i just remembered a second game and they were town too

and scum-double-voters would give them quite a lot more power over the lynch so i feel like that's kinda strong for scum

i would also guess that it gets turned off in lylo/mylo but idk

you might be town?

[skitter30]

I mean I definitely am but you can catch on at your own pace

what do you think of creature?

well i was thinking you might be scum earlier but i changed my mind; i also don't think i can read you particularly well so i might outsource the read to shoshin or something idk; we'll see how it goes and how i read you and how i read her

i have like no thoughts on creature either way

VOTE: NSG

here's a present for those of you who are also town

how confident are you on this rn?

[skitter30]

ok, what's the right question?

[skitter30]

and i do think you're better than me at reading her but i don't see anything scummy from her right now so i'm not seeing a compelling reason to sheep you atm

[skitter30]

eh, fair

VOTE: nsg

[skitter30]

ye i was kinda trying to see if you were trying to see if i would follow you

but you can read her better than me and i don't think i can particularly read her very well and i'm not particularly scumreading anyone else right now so

[skitter30]

Skitter giving up and following RC so fast sketch af
Creature being a nonpresence is always worrying too.

i don't have a particularly strong read on her, def not one that i'm confident in, def not at this stage of the game

he does and this is one of the very particular scenarios that i'm willing to sheep someone on pretty much carte blanche (those scenarios are specifically mathdino on nsg and notmafia, and rc on nsg. math on the worst probably too now that i think about it); it's something i know he prides himself on being very, very accurate on and he felt strongly enough about it here to pull out his history reading her

he's good at reading her and i know i'm not and he wants to wagon her

[skitter30]

I do think its pretty decently likely I'm only scumreading you because of the manner of your push on Skitter and

I have info that suggests not that AI

Is this bit about me or shoshin?

[skitter30]

Shoshin what's your read on RC/the level of it?

Creature: townlean
Gammagooey: scumlean, but prolly not with nos
Kokichi: I like your idea of tying the gachapon if the winner isn't announced, but I don't like your iso. But meh, "hated" probably isn't the opposite alignment as the double voter. Townlean.
nsg: sheeping RC's scumlean for now
noferatu: scumlean, but prolly not with gamma
Porkens: townlean?
SirCakez: townlean
skitter: townlean
Varsoon: whatever
Reck: double voter is probably town?

Yay everyone but varsoon has done something AI already this really is gonna be a good game
ask for reasons if you're curious just thought I'd throw my attempt at reads in the thread

Porkens is kinda gutpinging me as scum. Why are u maybe town on him?

Agree with u on kokichi

Shoshin is prob town, i think u might be town, rc is maybe town but i'm never confident on that

[skitter30]

Hey Skitter, what's your read on Gamma?

Pretty much null

I liked his reasoning on nos tho; don't think its hard to fake tho

[skitter30]

VOTE: Gammagooey

Why isn't Gamma lynched yet?

lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol

I didnt like this naked gamma vote; he had already posted and a bunch kf peopke had voted gamma on the previous page; thats where the scumlean came from

Rc's 58 made it seem like lynching gamma might be a meme tho that i dont know

[skitter30]

Ye like i said it seemed like a meme which us why i didnt make a thing about it

[skitter30]

Uh ok?

In which case i continue to be gutscum on porkens

[skitter30]

If anything, irritating town RC to the point of self-destruction is pro-scum.

i agree with this and it's why i voted reck

maybe you didn't get there yet but ... kinda surprised taht you aren't objecting to my vote on you

[skitter30]

gachapon vote:

shoshin

[skitter30]

I think rc is probably town but im not confident on it. I also dont think his alignment ia super relevant wrt his nsg read

If he's town i think he can read her better than me

I also think rc cares too much about his long-term read accuracy on her to blow it on one time using it as scum to lynch town!her; if he's lying his credibility is shot and he cares too much imo

And if he's using it to bus his partner that works for me too

[skitter30]

Ye; you and math both approach it kinda similarly in that you're worried about the reprecussions of being wrong if you're scum and use it to mislynch her

[skitter30]

i think kokichi might be town too

[skitter30]

But why do you TR me?

i think that trying to figure out if tying the gacha vote will make it harder for scum to mess with whoever receives it is more likely to come from town than scum

shoshin's townier than you so i don't think i will be voting you at this time; like i'm not super strongly townreading you or anything, more like i think for this stage of the game on balance the things you've done are fairly town-motivated

[skitter30]

why!

[skitter30]

Gachapon vote: xRECKONERx

Now that that's out of the way.
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
I don't like you asking for gacha votes.

i don't udnerstand voting reck here

given that he dislikes kokichi for being hated it's possible he's townreading reck on the setup spec of him being a double voter; idk; i don't think this is an optimal gacha vote and i dont' think it's a viable wagon or anything at this time either

Hated's a trash modifier that indicates design-flaw and should probably be lynched regardless, as I'm reading hated as more likely scum than town in this setup.
But also I don't like Kokichi's main focus being on getting Gacha and mentions of himself as town/townread.
255, 232, 43, 30
Firstpost far too much tips at the role PM being red (thinking he was scum) that it strikes me as scum trying to manufacture a 'townslip' based on how peculiar they thought the sample role/their fakeclaim was in looks. Need to go back to the previous game, though, and see if the different color formatting/fakeclaims is in the mod meta, though, otherwise regardless it just bothers me.

did you read the whole game?

also xyzzy's mod color is red ...

And I didn't ask, I demanded. To someone who says they think I'm town. If they think I'm town, they shouldn't mind voting me for gacha votes. Why are you trying to mispaint the picture here?

Cool, glad you could find a means of publicly testing a pocket, unless you're buddies, then it's distancing maybe
Regardless it just doesn't sit well with me.

i really wouldn't call myself pocketed here

'cus Shoshin doesn't strike me as scum, just gullible.

why are you characterizing her as gullible?

[skitter30]

Reck's my choice.

I don't care if it's a good choice.

The fact that my choice doesn't seem like a good choice to you makes me that much more sure that I want to go with my choice.

why not?

[skitter30]

'cus I saw my role PM was red-fonted and thought it was a scum PM at first, myself.
You insisting that's the mod color and all that feels like a weird justification.

i'm confused ... you thought the same thing as him so why is that a weird justification?

[skitter30]

yeah i actually went back and checked if my role pm was red because i didn't remember and it was so i don't get what he's trying to say

[skitter30]

@Skitter: I have a hard townread on Reck. Furthermore, I didn't like the way the gacha votes were going and wanted to throw a wrench in that. Even furthermore, I knew the positions re: Reckoner and Gatcha and knew if I came in with a starkly different opinion that it would create discussion and game momentum. It's the best way for me to get involved in the game, too, because before these last few posts I haven't really been engaged.

I read the whole game when it happened but have not since returned to it.

I'm not saying you are pocketed, just that it stinks of testing a pocket--like seeing how far you'd townread a claimed townread.

Shoshin's rhetoric (both in explaining their own play and convincing others) has been very straightforward--I 100% believe that Shoshin saw Reck write that he wasn't reading and took that to be literally true. Shoshin did not push Reck for further game engagement or read the 'not reading' thing as a strat to not engage with a few pages of content; Shoshin seems to, again, have just taken it literally.

yeah ok i asked about reading the whole game cuz you voted him just after he posted and than you cased his whole iso so i was wondering if you had just read his iso after voting him and were looking for things to scumread him for or if you were kinda keeping along as things progressed and the timing was kinda coincidental

i don't townread him strongly; more like i think the things he's done are more likely to have come from town and at this stage it's enough to move him up out of null but it isn't strong or anything

i'm basically townreading him for the very reason your'e scumreading him (the tie-gacha thing) so i'm not sure what to make of the fact that you have such a viscerally different reaction to the same set of events

i think shoshin is very sincere and insightful tbh; i'm not really sure why you're getting gullible here really

i also think tonally you feel kinda ??? but i think i've misread you on tone before (for quite a lot of splatoon mafia) so i prob shoudln't put much stock in that tbh

[skitter30]

And calling me gullible

betrays an informed perspective or an attempt to discredit me

... there's no way a townie thinks I'm "gullible" at this stage in the game, just doesn't make any sense.

i was kinda thinking that too tbh

he seems pretty solid on you being town, just that he doesn't really trust ur thinking

but idk why he's townreading you that strongly

[skitter30]

i also don't know why the tone in ur posts towards me is so drastically different from how ur interacting with everyone else

[skitter30]

@Skitter: Oh! You meant this game! I thought you meant the previous game with the Adventure Zone flavor. Yes--I've also been reading this entire game as it's been posted.

I guess that I've played the 'lets discuss this mechanic's best use' card a lot as scum (see: Color Mafia games) and I've seen scum do it a lot early-game in my own public-mechanic heavy games, so it's a strategy I tend to associate with scum.

Shoshin is for sure sincere, but I feel like they're not looking beyond what people are saying at face-value.

Sorry if my tone is weird--I'm probably gonna be really weird this game in general since I'm working full time which is usually not something I've done while playing mafia. So we'll see how it goes.

ye i meant this taz game; i don't know much about the last one

i was comparing ur tone here to splatoon mafia; you were in a hydra and i scumread u there for a while because you have a ... blustery (i guess that's the right word? idk) tone that i kinda auto-scumread because it feels kinda bravado-y to me but i came around eventually and realized it was a personality thing and not an alignment thing

and that's kinda the tone u have here too, except in ur posts towards me which is kinda weird and i don't know what to do with that

i mean i guess that scum can use setup spec as a strategy, yes, but ur using setup spec to scumread kokichi and townread reck so this seems kinda contradictory to me; and i think that his wanting to tie the gacha vote is sincere and town-motivated tbh

[skitter30]

VOTE: varsoon

i don't like the kokichi read and i think that kokichi's side of their argument made a lot more sense and i think that varsoon was kinda reaching to find something to scumread him for

[skitter30]

y

[skitter30]

i will say I fucking loathe skitter's new method of speaking
I got a lot more out of old Skitter's wallposts

Meh, almost on the same page, except I don't see the Nos townread at all. Can you explain that to me?

I somewhat agree with NSG that it 'feels town how he did it' without agreeing that what he did was necessarily towny

i mean we talked about this already but people complain when i do the wallposts

i can either do spam or wallposts and people complain both ways

[skitter30]

ok maybe

[skitter30]

can either of u explain the sircakez read? i don't really get it

p-edit yeah i was kinda thinking that too; or at least specifically gacha or voting because he prob won't be hear to like react to that in any significant way

reck i do hope ur safe tho

[skitter30]

i don't know

i definitely don't townread him

i don't get his varsoon townread; and i think his scumread on me has been kinda overblown but i'm aware that i'm prob biased so i'm trying not to let that affect my read too much; i don't think he's done much else remarkable either way

[skitter30]

VOTE: unvote

I'm townreading RC now. more posts make it clearer.

VOTE: cakez

and sheeping

uhhh .... ?

how much of the game have u read?

==

i don't really see the kokichi/varsoon svs read

i think kokichi is just town tbh

==

worth saying that my read on skitter isn't at 100% yet: still needs more time.

that's cool; ur good at reading me and there's still quite a lot of time in the day and i'm pretty confident u'll figure it out sooner or later

shoshin is kinda meh at reading me so i don't particularly expect her to be townreading me at this stage really

==

It's incredibly depressing to make a return to the site and on my first real day of engagement to be hit with a gaggle of people saying that I'm game throwing, untoppably awful, bad, etc.
I'm legitimately losing sleep over it, so I would appreciate it if you would stop.

i just want to say that i hope u dont' think i crossed a line; i am quite baffled by your kokichi scumread and it feels kinda manufactured/forced to me (from the red role PM thing to the voting-for-gacha thing) and i also feel like ur kinda talking to shoshin like u know she's town, but i try very hard not to make scumreads personal and so i hope i don't fall into this category; i do think ur kinda scummy but i def don't want to be insulting or rude or anything

or a little later on u say you don't see his reaction as coming from town but idk i vibed with his side of ur argument a lot more than ur side

==

Most people here do, I would say. And what about my reaction is not coming from town if word for word basically 3 other people have agreed and posted with everything I've been saying?

i've not played with u before to the best of my knowledge

==

Skitter's agreeable but I don't wanna be quick to townread that, either. Based on play, the most by-the-books-town, but I don't know if their scumgame is just that polished or what.

ye i play very careful, very polished, very methodological scum; open 732 (it just ended and i don't do too good as scum usually and i'm kinda proud of winning that one )

also imo i've actually been less polished than usual here but meh

i'm not sure how i feel about the rest of ur readslist because just about everyone u name u give a reason why ur not confident about the read; that makes me nervous because i feel like it gives people room to backtrack

[skitter30]

@Skitter: Nah, you're cool, no worries.
I guess the question you gotta ask yourself is--would scum give themselves obvious backtracks or present more confident reads, especially when they know they could do so and just be seen as inane for it?
Real talk, those are my reads and I'm working to build more confidence one way or another here.

k good

i don't know how to answer that question in general because i think it's very context/personality dependant, and you from here and splatoon seem very confident + opinionated so i was kinda surprised that u have like no strong/confident reads on anyone; like i can understand being wavering on some but on all seems like a red flag to me

but i also think that i've seen this before a few times and was scumreading those people ... but i don't think any of those people were actually scum in the end; the main time i call to mind was someone that scum!rc was deliberately trying to get me to scumread and got me to mislynch her for him so i guess this isn't such a great precendent

so overall this prob isn't a good thing to scumread u for

i am still a little confused about why ur tone towards me is so different from like everyone else but that could be a by-product of the rc/kokichi thing, idk

can u talk about your meta with porkens and what u were trying/expecting to get out of 81 in light of that?

UNVOTE: for now i think

==

The progression from 321 to the Varsoon vote doesn't make sense to me.

???

what part of it confuses you? i thought i explained myself pretty well ...

How is my scumread on you overblown? I've commented on it, like, twice.

i can understand why u didn't like my entrance; it wasnt't particularly awesome or anything

i don't really get why ur objecting to the nsg vote and i don't really get why ur objecting to the varsoon vote tho

==

I would like to begin this post by saying that RC would totally Russell Hantz it on Survivor and while he is still a townread he is not locktown anymore. There, I said it. Moving on.

yeah this is kinda what i'm thinking too

i still think that irrel is town

==

I think it's not impossible that reck/varsoon is just SvS

i don't really see it?

i also don't really see varsoon/kokichi or varsoon/porkens for that matter

==

I’m null/towny to you but you perceive that I’ll be an easy wagon.

uh i've never played with porkens before but is it normal for him to read things this badly?

like gamma didn't say this

==

He calls me town and tries to pocket me, when it doesn't work

where did this happen?

i feel like both of ur understandings of that argument are kinda overblown or dramatic but i kinda at least see where varsoon is coming from and i can see it match what actually happened

but i don't think this is an accurate representation of that argument from u

[skitter30]

ok

[skitter30]

My tone seems to have been giving skitter issues with read clarity on my slot, and I know that my infrequent schedule is likely to add to that. I was apologizing mostly for not being able to be here consistently, though, since I feel like consistent play is one of the best means of producing content that'll get you read clearly.

the schedule thing doesn't really matter much to me so long as you don't like randomly disappear into the aether; your activity is fine imo

but yeah i'm having trouble parsing the tone thing conclusively either way

i'm going to admit to being a little paranoid that you're being conciliatory/non-aggressive to me cuz i was willing-to-hear-you-out and it's making me wonder if you're like trying to like get me on ur side or to like pocket me a bit if that makes sense

@SirCakez: In my experience, Porkens is far more madcap and frustrating.

does he usually like read the game?


==

Skitter, what're your reads?

something like

{}
{irrel, you}
{kokichi}
{nsg, reck, nos, gamma, creature, sircakez} - null
{porkens}
{}
{}

i don't know where to put rc or varsoon right now

pretty sure all of {you/irrel/kokichi} are town

nsg i'm not super good at reading and doesn't have enough content either way; i want to scumread her for inactivity/apathy but i've been told that's not hte right way to read her even though that seems to work for me, so idk; either way she doesn't have enough content really

i feel like nos is the sort of player whose playstyle i don't know how to read; nothing he's said has been ai much; i've only played with him once and i was scum and he was in a hydra and lurked for half the game so that overall id on't think that's going to be super helpful here

i don't really have thoughts on gamma, he just kinda is; same with sircakez really

reck's role i think is marginally more likely to be town but i dont' particularly townread his play; overall i don't feel super strongly about him either way

i feel underwhelmed by creature but it's only been a couple of irl days and his sig literally says he can't post on thursdays so he can have a few more days

porkens is kinda wtf-y and i kinda gut scumread him for his ~RVS posts and his later posts are bad but they're bad to the level of almost being comical and they indicate that he isn't really reading the game and idk unless he like legit hates scum and doesn't care enough to bother going through the motions of reading the game i don't know what he's doing here as scum.

like voting someone because 'you say i'm null/towny but vote for me anyways so it sounds like you want to get a wagon on me' or something to that effect when gamma hadn't said that is just like ... bad but i feel like scum would want to accurately find out why they're being voted instead of just vaguely skimming things so that they can respond apropriately? but i feel like town would care about that too so overall idk right now; like i kinda scumread him but i'm not sure if what he's doing actually comes from scum if that makes sense

i don't really like rc's side of his fight with varsoon and i don't much like the aftermath either and i don't know why it's a fight to begin with and he seemed to have put words into varsoon's mouth and his reaction to being scumread is to replace out is kinda bad but idk if that's ai really for him. or at least, ai in ways that i can read. and i think i'm just going to wait till after he's replaced to try to figure the slot out because i don't think i can read him super well anyways with any sort of confidence

and varsoon i didn't like his kokichi case but i kinda like many of his later posts and he seems kinda sincere to me; i'm still working on coming to a firm conclusion but i'm tending town for now

i don't super feel like i have a very good grasp on this playerlist yet and i have a lot of nullreads but idk how to read the things they've posted thus far

[skitter30]

irrelephant because he keeps on bringing up things at just the same time i was thinking them (188 + much of 172 + 417)

+ tone feels good (ie feels very relaxed + carefree + non-agenda-y + go-with-the-flow-y)

+ his read on u and rc in extension make a lot of sense given past games (ie american presidents mafia and how he treated you there)

kokichi because i think trying to tie the gacha thing is town-motivated + how he defended doing so + his outrage at varsoon not understanding him felt real

==

@varsoon i don't have a serious case on porkens beyond what i just said; not entirely sure how to get someone to engage when they're clearly not reading the game tbh

[skitter30]

yeah, i hadn't got there, but i'm not all that surprised. why did you expect me to be? you've made it pretty clear in the past that you don't think you can read me.

idk, that i just unsurreptitiously decided to sheep him without you having much content yet; i don't do that sort of thing too often

==

Why townread RecK? To pocket him. And manipulate him. Reck is "notorious" (his word) for letting this happen.

i mean varsoon would have to know that reck is 'notorious' for letting this happen in order to try to take advantage of it and they apparently haven't played that much with each other

==

Oh man guess I should never voice a townread on Reck ever again in any game because it's

obviously

pocketing.
You really shouldn't take the gullible thing so seriously/personally, Shoshin.
I am surprised by how stubborn you are, though.
Would you like to actually interact with me at some point, though?

she's very stubborn and doesn't really interact with people she thinks are scum; she'll just kinda ignore you/your questions

i don't really see varsoon trying to pocket reck really?

[skitter30]

ok

ime you don't really respond to people who you scumread; or at least, you interact with them a lot less than you interact with people you townread.

and just because you think the question is pointless doesn't mean it is to the person asking /shrug

[skitter30]

ok, maybe what i think is 'you don't respond to people who you scumread'

is actually 'you don't respond to questions that you think are pointless'

but if the latter is happening it looks like the former to me

in american presidents you treated me remarkably differently before and after you townread me; you would respond to my questions/posts once you townread me but didn't really interact with me at all before then

you don't townread me here as far as i can tell and haven't really been interacting with me much either besides for when you've been asking me what my reads are

i also want to emphasize that just because you don't think a question is reasonable ( what constitutes 'reasonable' exactly? i asked u why you townread rc + irrel + someone else - creature iirc - by like post 40 or something and you ignored that and i think that's a very reasonable question; it certainly wasn't pointless from my pov) doesn't meant that the person asking it also doesn't; to me those reads looked like you pulled them out of thin-air so i asked about them but you ignored it so i don't really get where you were coming from there

[skitter30]

pretty much everyone else is here and doing shit and nothing anyone here is doing feels strongly more likely to be coming from scum than town yet.

i feel like this too kinda; i have some townreads and a bunch of people around null and i'm not really scumreading anyone

==

I'm leaning Irrelephant for last scum

i don't really see scum!irrelephant right now

==

gamma might be town?

==

-It looks like you're hesitant to vote Varsoon because of your past with him and then you just voted him anyway a few posts later.
-Because the progression to those votes looks unreal.

VOTE: varsoon

i don't like the kokichi read and i think that kokichi's side of their argument made a lot more sense and i think that varsoon was kinda reaching to find something to scumread him for

i only played one game with him and i intially scumread him there for his tone too but i eventually realized it was a personality thing and not an alignment thing so ignored that

here i was noting that the blustery/confident tone makes me want to scumread him but since i know that he just kinda sounds like that and it isn't an alignment thing that wasn't something to scumread him for so i noted it but ignored that when trying to read him; i didn't vote him for anything to do with tone or past games, but rather because his kokichi read looked kinda trumped up to me and kinda overblown and like he was looking for something to scumread him for; i thought it was strange that he'd had such a viscerally opposite reaction to something that i was townreading

like yeah the tone was bothering me so i mentioned that but i ultimately decided it wasn't ai (or at least, ai in ways that i know how to read) so i ignored it; that's not why i voted him.

i don't know what 'the progression to those votes looks unreal' means

==

VOTE: rc

I can only lead to his town to victory. Rc is a proven liar. Everyone says it that I've seen. Where is his evidence? NONE!

you were fine sheeping rc on his non-existant sircakez scumread the last time you posted ...

i'm not even sure what you're talking about here tbh

==

creature maybe town too

==

VOTE: porkens

i'm fine with this wagon. i know that porkens is normally kind of a zany guy but here it feels more like he's using that as an excuse for not actually doing anything rather than just having it be a part of the way that he scumhunts and plays the game. i suppose it's possible that i'm speaking from an outdated picture of how he plays, but for now i'm fine with it.

i've not played with him before but nothing he's doing really feels scummy?

like wtf-y, sure

like he's playing some sort of alternate-reality version of this game that in no way correlates to actual events, sure

but i don't see scum motivation in what he's doing. granted, i don't see town motivation either.

like this doesn't feel like an excuse to me? it just feels like wtf-y and troll-y and 'i have absolutely no idea what to do with this'-y. kinda like nm but in a different flavor if that makes sense

maybe i'll go look up some of his scumgames but atm nothing he's doing really feels purposeful or agenda-driven or like he's trying to accomplish something

[skitter30]

i've never played with him so i can't really do the meta thing

like yeah acting weird means he doesn't have to look townie or justify positions but it also means he's prob going to get lynched at some point so i don't know why scum would play that way on purpose unless they didn't mind getting lynched

(but i also don't know why town would play this way on purpose unless they didn't mind getting lynched either)

[skitter30]

i think i said this above, but i don't have any major ones right now

i have a bunch of people i'm townreading; a bunch of people i'm around null on that i'm not entirely sure how to read

rc was tending scum before he repped out because of how he made up a lot of bs about varsoon that he'd never said; it kinda reminded me of that newbie from a few months back that you weren't in but math said you were following; the one where rc deliberately picked a fight with math because ... well, i'm still not entirely sure why he did that really but i think it made a gamestate that he felt he could manipulate easily

i also think he has a bit of an incendiary personality and gets kinda offended by things so i'm not entirely sure how ai it was; i'm kinda waiting for a replacement and will prob just toss the rc-part of the slot out because i really don't think i can read him either way

idk i can talk more about the various reasons why i'm null on a bunch of people more if you want me to but i don't really explicitly scumread anyone else in particular right now; that's why i'm not voting

[skitter30]

yeah ok, i see ur point; i skimmed through that one and i don't see him deliberately trying to de-escalate there anywhere

i'm just a little bit wary because he's very very willing to make a toxic gamestate to manipulate people; i was hard-townreading him throughout that and he basically manipulated me and got me to posthumously mislynch people for him

he also threatened said if he was scum he would just rep-out so he wouldn't have to deal with the argument but he was scum purposefully perpetrating the argument so

and he was also making up things that didn't happen to support his side and to antagonize varsoon; like if he didn't want to actually have the fight as scum i can see him repping out too

i really feel like rc is like a mess of wifom for me right now and i think i scumlean him overall but i'm also aware that i really don't know how to read him so i have like no confidence in this whatsoever

i really think it's better for me to try to not-read him and wait for a replacement tbh

[skitter30]

ye; i think that's the best way to handle this and start with the slot afresh for me really

[skitter30]

or not

[skitter30]

Sircakez
Nosferatu

all strong townreads

i don't see either of these

like i don't really scumread either of them but i don't townread either of them either

==

I was gonna like pretend to scumread you or something to keep you alive but I don't think that's a play suitable to this gamestate in hindsight.

so i take it you're townreading her then?

her posts around you saying this feel kinda town too

==

VOTE: Irrelephant
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
VOTE: Gammagooey

i believe this is all 3 scum.

i'm townreading both irrelephant and kokichi

like i'm reading your irrelphant case and you say a lot of words but never it is really convincing or anything; i think his townread of shoshin makes sense and that he'd be willing to sheep her on you for now tbh

==

gamma feels kinda .... hollow to me? that might be a good word. like his posts are there but lack motivation. i realize i'm not explaining what i'm seeing well but i don't know how to articulate this better rn

==

619 is the first actually scummy post i've seen from porkens

actually 630-635 feel kinda townie to me in like a clueless sort of way

he feels kinda like lynchbait and i'm not entirely sure why he's the leading wagon at this point tbh

==

I can't read varsoon because his push on me is fucking gross and I tried to read him via associatives instead.

I can't give a useful read on him.

eh this feels kinda town

==

the way rc is interacting with shoshin on page 28 feels off; kinda like he's pocketing and/or manipulating her into agreeing with his lynch list

==

ok i'm no longer reading reck's posts about rc or rc's posts about reck; reading arguments like this kinda stresses me out

this game feels liek people are holding grudges over games gone by and are taking it out on this game and it's making this game low key not super enjoyable for me

[skitter30]

i don't know what ur past history is and i think that both of u are holding some sort of grudge wrt that game.

either way it's making me not super into reading this; i think u know from the newbie that i really really don't like it when people get into personal arguments

and yeah i think i kinda scumread you for your playstyle. i dont know what to do about that

i'm thinking about sheeping nsg and shoshin because they both probably aren't wrong but idk if i'm confident enough to do that

[skitter30]

they're both bringing up the team mafia game so i thought it had something to do with that

i do think that a hurricane is a fair reason for not posting because it's, you know, a hurricane

i also stopped reading both of their posts at some point so yeah

[skitter30]

What's your read on RC currently?
Also @Reck how good are you at reading RC in general?

oh im not good at this game or reading people at all, i just get lucky a lot

i parked both votes on RC because of what happened in team mafia, plain & simple

i mean this is why i thought it was a grudge from that game + calling it a policy later

I think RC is trying to deflect attention by discrediting me and is being overly defensive on basically what amounts to 1 quick sentence about a policy RVS vote

i think this is kinda disingenuous given the above and given that rc was also his main scumread throughout the time he was here

i can't really read his rep-out posts

but yeah reck replaced out so this argument is over

[skitter30]

i can vote gamma

VOTE: gamma

[skitter30]

i can't promise to lynch him because i don't know what my read on him is right now

i'm reading both you and reck the same way i was reading you earlier; you're both WIFOM-y for me now and just like a knot of tension in my understanding of this game that i dont' know how to resolve

i think it's best for me to read a replacement afresh

yes i am scumreading him but i don't know how much of it is from the fact that i don't like the argument and how much of it is from him doing actually scummy things

[skitter30]

this might seem really unfair to skitter but the fact that she's pushed on all of my scumreads makes me think that she's a lot more likely to be scum bussing
I also haven't gotten any of those ~town vibes~ that I'm supposed to have from her by now.

but I"m not explicitly feeling her as scum either, so that's something?

1. You had me in your list of townreads earlier so you're going to have to explain how you went from townreading me to not having 'gotten any of those ~town vibes~ that you're supposed to have from me by now'

2. I play mafia by looking at a given scenario and aggregating similar scenarios ive seen in the past in order to try to figure out if things are more likely to come feom town or scum. A few months back i played a game with scum!you where you picked a fight with someone i look up to in order to get him mislynched and to create a gamestate where you can manipulate people; you got me to mislynch math, pressure the cop to out for you by pocketing me, and mislynch someone else for you after you were dead. That game makes me very, very wary about you and your abiliity to manipulate me; i dont think i can confidently read or trust you after that. I dont think its fair of you to complain that your playstyle makes me scumread you when you created this dynamic by what you did in that game; its not like this is something im pulling out of thin air

3. I deal with anxiety irl and i have a lot of trouble dealing with interpersonal conflict for a variety of reasons; it stresses me out a lot and it's not something i can process or handle easily, even when im not directly involved. Within the context of a game its fine but when things get personal it messes with my ability to process what's happening and i kinda get stuck on the conflict; your arguments with varsoon and reck are tilting me out of being able to read this game and both you and reck. Its making this game unenjoyable for me. Im trying to get past it but atm i cant read u or reck and so im trying to figure out what to do about it. Reck's gone so i think i want to start with a replacement anew; i wanted to do that with u but you're here so i can't do that. The best way i think i can resolve u is to sheep people i trust who i think can read you but im not confident enough to do that just yet; i dont trust enough people that strongly atm

Agreeing to lynch reck (who i cant read right now) on your request (who i cant read right now) is idiotic and like the dumbest thing i can do this game, no matter how pissed it makes you or the fact that it seems to make you retaliatory scumread me

[skitter30]

VOTE: varsoon

porkens is town and if we keep votes on him hes gonna do something dumb o/

i kinda think varsoon is town tbh

==

Serious, though, what's up with this wack game momentum?
We've been playing a whole week and the largest thing to happen so far was my push and the interactions that came out of that.
Why isn't anyone else making waves?
I know scum are very likely to try to sit back and play their cards close to their chest due to the mechanical systems at play and because I'm town but damn

ye gamestate is kinda funky right now and very ... quiescent. the lolporkens wagon kinda indicates that he might be town; there wasn't any resistance to it; gamestate around your wagon is kinda murky for me and i'm having trouble reading it

==

hi ge

==

I also have a theory it might have cute interactions with self-targeting effects, but that's kinda NAI.

i hadn't thought about it that way till you said this, but yeah this is a thing

i was also thinking that depending on the composition of hte scumteam i could see scum bussing to get some gold to spend on fantasy costco stuff; like if porkens was scum or something

==

I want to be wrong but something about you feels more mechanical than usual
Also I'm a little surprised you find me easy to read now
Also I'm bad at reading you so we'll see where this goes

i'm having a hard time getting into this game

the things that i was scumreading you for in american presidents mafia (the sheeping, oppurtunistic votes, the fluffiness, the unsureness) i now recognize to be part of your towngame + i'm very confident shoshin is town and she's independently saying the same thing so overall i feel pretty good about this for now

+ like rc made a case on you and none of it was very convincing and it felt like he was looking for things to scumread you over; like he made a whole case and none of the things he was saying really made me think you were scummy even though he pulling out behaviors he thought was scummy; i just dont' really see it right now

idk why are you surprised i'm finding you easy to read?

==

This is actually a really good post
You can be townlean for now

why was that a really good post?

==

Shoshin, I have yet to do this myself, but out of curiosity have you re-read all of your interactions with Varsoon? Just wondering if this is mostly misunderstanding.

Like I don't townread Varsoon but I do also stand by my earlier guess that he might just be in the lynchbait spot

. I'm townreading you lots so you're not the scum here but is it possible it's just playstyle differences?

she gets kinda tunneled sometimes and i agree that this might be happening rn

bolded + below quote is an odd juxtoposition:

I still say Varsoon is the best lynch today

I mean I'm certainly still interested in it rn

==

I'd like to see you do more work to sort nsg/varsoon/kokichi and the thought processes that get you there. Even if the end result is the same as the above

this feels like busywork

==

irrel if you're scum with town!shoshin how do you interact with her?

[skitter30]

i'm starting to become a little bit nervous that you might be trying to pocket shoshin

scummy != lynchbait-y exactly; they aren't quite the same thing. lynchbait-y, at least to me, connotes that you think the person is behaving in a scummy fashion that might get them lynched but *that you think that they're town anyways despite that*. to call someone potential lynchbait to me means that you think that they might be town despite acting in a scummy fashion, so being willing to lynch someone you're saying may be lynchbait is kinda ??? to me because it seems to be like you're willing to lynch someone you think may be town

i guess your'e not working off of quite the same definition as me? but

they're two different ways to describe the same thing

and the latter is just more accurate if I think he happens to flip green in the end

feels kinda strange? can you elaborate what you mean by this?

Um do you look at that Reck readslist and understand why he said what he did about nsg, varsoon, or kokichi? I understand some of his other reads but I want to know his reasoning there and even if it doesn't change anything when he thinks about it again I'll be able to tell better if he's faking those reads for an agenda or really feels that way
Actually, why discredit that question as "busywork"? That's a super normal request and I'm annoyed you made me feel defensive about it

he said he doesn't think he can read nsg or varsoon rn; kokichi might be scum

I'd like to see you do more work to sort nsg/varsoon/kokichi and the thought processes that get you there.

Even if the end result is the same as the above

this is pinging me tho; i think it's the bolded at the end; like it sounds like you're asking him to put in effort to resort them but coming to the same conclusion (can't read two of them and kokichi might scum) is fine? idk it feels like a strange request to me. not like you asking is busy work but kinda like you're ok with him putting in effort to not come to a new conclusion if that makes sense?

none of his reads are particularly impressive imo so idk why you picked out these three people either; like there's *a lot* of people he's saying he's null on or can't read

[skitter30]

I guess in my mind "lynchbait" means "scummy, but the way it's so easy to wagon them/the way others treat them makes me wonder if they're town despite the fact that they seem scummy"
So there's no contradiction in my head to say I find varsoon both scummy and lynchbaity and I've been confused why others think there is. I know that, in the end, he can't be both scum and lynchbait. But I can't tell which it is and part of my interest in flipping him would be to find out ("interest" in the literal "it would be interesting" sense)

Also you're getting caught up on word choice (this is a fun reversal of roles for us): I am simply asking Reck to 1) elaborate and 2) try to come to a firmer read. It will help me read him and it will help me read them, so it's certainly not just busywork.

yeah i guess it's possible that i'm getting caught up in word choice, but idk i feel more caution wagoning somebody i think is lynchbait because i'm aware of the possibility that they may be town so i guess it's bothering me that you don't seem to have that sort of caution

[skitter30]

@irrel:

sorry i'm not following what you're trying to say; i'm not entirely sure what your gamma vote has to do with your caution or lack thereof regarding varsoon

[skitter30]

You want me to be more cautious of lynching varsoon
I'm not currently voting varsoon
How could I be more cautious

did your gamma vote have anything to do with varsoon?

[skitter30]

gamma g, 826 still has that like hollow feel to it.

i don't really understand why you're scumreading porkens; he had like one post that i scumread but the rest of it is kinda wtf-y but i see no scum agenda or motivation for it; like i'm not sure why being completely out of the game is more likely to come from scum than town. the i glanced at his iso in hte transformers game and he at least had some cursory scumreads and was following along (he was scum there)

also he was the biggest wagon with five votes a few hundred posts back so i'm not sure where you're getting the 'people are fine calling him scum but not voting him' bit from; he really feels like lynchbait to me tbh

if RC flips town I think he's borderline locktown.

this is pinging me and i'm putting this here so i remember to look at this later after we get some flips (partners?)

also i'm a little confused because you say varsoon is prob only scum with rc but you don't want to read the game that way since it's day1 but you say sircakez is 'Cakez is my next biggest scumread after Porkens, but it's mostly gut and how he's played around Porkens' which looks to me at least partially like an svs associative based read too? can you elaborate on cakez please? and you're also calling kokichi town for interactions with porkens?

(also i'm a she btw)

==

i can't tell the difference between town!disengaged!creature and scum!creature so idk how to read him right now

==

i'm basically ignoring the fact that rc was ever a player in this game and will be reading the slot based on gamma; his posting thus far strikes me as slightly town tonally

==

varsoon, this might be a weird question, but how well do you remember games you played six months ago? like are you the sort of player who remembers details of things they pushed in games gone by?

still think varsoon is town tbh

==

Anyone ever see RC replace out of a game as scum? I'd be willing to bet it happens a lot more often as town than scum.

i think so but i don't remember which game and i'd have to go looking for it; it could be i'm mistaken because this didn't happen in any game i was actually in with him and it's possible i'm remembering incorrectly

[skitter30]

I think it's really important that we try to keep the scum from ending up as leaders

Game-breaking analysis right here.

VOTE: Varsoon

It's almost as if I insinuated you were scum and that I couldn't trust you as our leader AND that your anime gimmick is really lame--did you take that all to heart and get so peeved you had to come back swatting?

VOTE: Kokichi

Gachapon vote: xRECKONERx

Now that that's out of the way.
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
I don't like you asking for gacha votes.

basically trying to decide, what, if anything, this is indicative of

he was town there so he def has a precedent for self-voting for these sort of things

your main push there for the first part of the game was him; but it looks like you backed down there when people said they were townreading him and when he kept pushing you/defending himself; here you're still at it despite people saying they townread him (ie i've been two reading him the whole time you've been pushing him) and him scumreading you in turn;

+ there seems to be omgus-y to a certain extent

basically i was wondering if you'd do the same thing as scum to town!kokichi as you did there but it looks like you don't necessarily remember this so eh

[skitter30]

actually i'm kinda townreading him for his persistant outrage at you scumreading him for this and for how stubborn he's being

[skitter30]

No one stays angry that long.
Dude's capable of doing more.

idk i kinda disagree; i think it's genuine

==

Good catch. Cause I was going to say he seems to be acting the same as he was there and was scum

i think that the two scenarios look superficially similar in that he voted you for self-voting in each, but are different in that there he backed down when you kept scumreading him and other people were townreading him; here you're still scumreading him and i've been townreading you the whole time this thing has been going on but he's persisting in the read; this difference makes me think it's more likely to come from town

==

I clearly feel Gamma is a better vote
I don't understand your objection to my play at this point
If you feel it's important please express it in a different way, I really can't wrap my head around how my not voting Varsoon is too un-cautious regarding his slot and that lack of caution somehow reveals a scum agenda

If you're wondering, I still haven't figured out if varsoon is scum or lynchbait, but the fact that multiple townreads are re-evaluating certainly makes me lean the latter enough to give him space

ok let's try this since i think we might be viewing this differently: what were your thoughts about varsoon when you voted gamma? like did you switch off of varsoon because you weren't sure about wanting to lynch him anymore and decided gamma was a good place to vote instead? or because you think gamma is scummier/better lynch for whatever reason but you still think varsoon is a good lynch?

because if it's teh former than yes, i agree that your gamma vote indicates that you were growing uncomfortable about varsoon, but if it's the latter than i don't know how the gamma vote is relevant to your caution or lack thereof wrt a varsoon lynch really. i was viewing it as the latter, since your gamma vote doesn't seem to have much to do with varsoon in how you presented it, which is why i'm not following why the gamma vote is a response to me saying that you seem kinda gung-ho about lynching someone you think might be lynchbait

maybe i'm just being nitpicky but i really don't see how voting gamma necessarily shows that you're feeling cautious about varsoon

You can't have both of these... I moved from voting varsoon to voting gamma g. I'm feeling v good about gamma g flipping scum and not so good about varsoon doing the same. But yes, I see how they might be partners

i guess maybe this is my answer

==

@skitter, @shoshin, @sircakez, @anyone, are you noticing this? Is it just in my head? He keeps bringing me up without doing anything about me or my play
I'm townreading most everything else from him but this is weirding me out

yes, i have, and you have admitted that you've been absent so like ... he does have a point in pointing it out; i also do agree that he hasn't done much about the fact tho

why are you townreading him?

[skitter30]

i guess another thing i'm a little bit concerned about is that a lot of your reads are defaulting to sheeping shoshin

[skitter30]

Prettyy much ready to locktown Shoshin & RC (and by extension probably creature, I guess?)
At least till D2.

why is everyone townreading me

because Shoshin is and I don't care to do elsewise

VOTE: Varsoon for a variety of pretty good reasons that have already been said, even though the skill of this playerlist makes me feel like this is too obvious. Not sure where else to turn rn, though, so.

doesn't explicitly name shoshin but you reference voting him for 'a variety of pretty good reasons that have already been said', and shoshin was a prominent player therein

Really? I kind of understand the ~vibes~ thing but that's also kind of a parrot of Shoshin from earlygame and also the above skitter post is pretty towny

I continue to feel overgamed and am having trouble remembering/understanding the case on varsoon. His frustration is seeming more genuine over time. I'll wait for your meta read on him before sheeping you again

I'm townreading him because of a carefree tone, mostly, like the way he lampshades his own disinterest in playing hard. plus a little sheeping shoshin about his early play being towny

[skitter30]

Okay, so RC (who is gone, and I guess I'm sorry I didn't say that I will also be starting my read over on the slot, same as you)
Varsoon (who I am currently *not* sheeping shoshin on)
and Creature (who I agree shoshin had a couple good points on that affect my read)

The "parrot of Shoshin" was me accusing RC of parroting Shoshin about you, not me saying that I am parroting her about you.

I think you're overfocused on me right now. If I were more paranoid I would accuse you of intentionally going out of your way to find reasons to drop your townread of me

i mean for varsoon you said you would sheep her again after she metadives him

i don't think it's unfair or inaccurate of me to point out that you're sheeping her a lot

i'm trying to sort you; how is that being overfocused on you? also i wasn't aware that your read on me was so strong that you wouldn't be paranoid of me rn? also i was townreading you but some of the things you're saying seem a little bit off to me which is why i'm probing further at this time

VOTE: Creature

Do Something.

the less he posts the more i'm ok with this

==

I think the scum motivation is just him not wanting to justify his RC read he mentioned earlier b/c it was completely made up and feeling like he'll get a lot more heavily scumread if he actually tries to play the game and give people reads when most of the game is giving him a pass for not doing shit now.

i mean he'd been wagoned already and you're trying ot get him lynched so if he's trying to get a pass it's not working super well; like he isn't respondign to pressure at him in any noticiable way as far as i can tell so idk i feel like scum would try to like not get lynched or do something at that point

==

Liking early content from skitter

that's a fairly meh post from me tbh and not something to particularly like

eta on when you'll catchup? because commenting that you like a post that i made like a week ago isn't super helpful in this current gamestate

idk you're striking me as gut town tho again

==

Would flip Varsoon as info lynch at this point too

infolynches are dumb, no offense

why would you infolynch someone you're scumreading / think might be lynchbait; i don't get it

also i think he's town so let's not do this

also this is just an icky post

==

Gammagooey wagon is garbar

yeah i'm looking at it and i'm not super liking the composition; i odn't really like any of the other wagons either tho

[skitter30]

No firm eta but I have a goal of getting caught up before eod1 so hopefully the next few days
Also wdym gut town

again

? Only game I remember with you that’s completed is presidents mafia and I don’t recall you thinking of me that way

Subject: Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

i'm kinda gut-townreading gamma atm but i have literally no justification for it besides gut

Subject: Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

i'm kinda gut town on gamma; and gamestate supports town gamma, even though he himself is not exactly a beacon of towniness

==

Gammagooey wagon is garbar

Gammagooey disappeared pretty quickly though.

yeah he hasn't like reacted to it at all

==

Hehe I find Irrel towny.

since when is this a thing?

==

@skitter I do sheep shoshin a lot D1. I've never correctly identified & pushed scum on my own D1 (unlike shoshin), and have only hit scum by sheeping town who's better than me at playing this phase. I'm trying to learn the weak points in my play, and that's one. Imo sheeping is pro-town if you can find a towny slot, and if you're also hard townreading shoshin I don't know what you're concerned about... Like town!Shoshin will figure me out regardless of my alignment and if I'm scum will get me lynched, and I won't be able to do anything about it because I've said she's obvtown. I don't think I could pocket Shoshin, honestly. I'm townreading you a fair amount, but re:paranoia I was mostly saying that I'm just not feeling paranoid yet this game, not that you've moved up in my reads.

yeah ok; i think that's a fair way to play

i'm less confident in my read on you now but i don't think it's something i want to pursue today; i think shoshin can read you a lot better and more confidently than i can (i think the only reason i didn't try to lynch you in american presidents mafia is cuz you got cleared) and she won't be here till next week;

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

kokichi did you think you were casting the hammer vote?

[skitter30]

gamma g i still want to vote you but i'm having reservations in that the back end of your wagon is quite ugly and i'm not ready to end the day yet

i kinda feel like a lot of the people you're voting or scumreading is like ... easy or safe if that makes sense

i don't know why you're voting sircakez here; i don't really scumread anything they've done. i don't explicitly townread them either but i don't think they're scummy

like i just said i guttownread gamma e but you're not taking exception to me doing that like you are with sircakez?

[skitter30]

I wouldn't be that surprised if you were scum, but Cakez pinging off a townread on GE for what feels like just townreading him IS also way worse than your mention of guttownreading him while poking at him by asking when he'll actually catch up with the game

sircakez feels kinda ... guileless to me? I don't know the right word exactly, but kinda like not-agenda-y and go-with-the-flow-y and he seems like the sort of player to not overthink things and to just say what's on his mind if that makes sense? like he wants to participate and he'll just kinda do whatever everyone else is doing if he doesn't have any major objections to it

admittedly i don't know his town or scum meta but while i don't think any of his posts in particular are particularly great holistically i'm tending more towards town like on tone + attitude + what i'm picking up from his playstyle if that makes sense

idk if townreading GE after GE said he was townreading him is really indicative of anything tbh; like i didn't really get the vibe that cakez is townreading him *because* GE is townreading him

i also don't know why it would be scummy of him to townread gamma after gamma townread him either really

==

VOTE: skitter

why?

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

kokichi did you think you were casting the hammer vote?

There was literally a vote count 4 posts above me. How would I not know the vote count

i mean the mod thought it was hammer cuz you were the 7th vote despite making the vc you referenced; they locked the thread over it for a bit

so you thought it was l-1?

[skitter30]

I think you're town, nsg, but I don't get why you're townreading gamma g, if you are

so many of your posts are pinging me :/

the gamestate feels kinda sluggish and it's weird to me given that we're getting fairly close to deadline; the gammag wagon is the biggest wagon; the backend built kinda fast without much resistance; if it was a wagon on scum i kinda imagine they'd be trying to push elsewhere around nowish but i'm not really seeing that happening; gamestate is kinda pointing loosely to town!gammag imo

i can't tell if kokichi thought he was hammering or not; if yes i thought it was a quite awful vote given that gammag hadn't been given a chance to claim etc; i understand he knew it was the 7th vote but i can't tell if he remembered that it was 8 to hammer or 7

[skitter30]

because i can't tell if he thought he was hammering or not

[skitter30]

Reck's my choice. I don't care if it's a good choice. The fact that my choice doesn't seem like a good choice to you makes me that much more sure that I want to go with my choice.

Yeah I think Varsoon is scum. He has a particular arrogance here that is similar to a past game I’ve played with him (no name drop because no one would get it). He seemed especially arrogant in pushing his mislynch of choice that game (drealmerz7).

that's what i initially misread him for in your game tho; he was rather standoffish there too
i think how stubborn he's being about all sorts of things (kokichi, argument with shoshin, etc) points more to town tho

==

yeah i havent moved my vote bc i dont wanna lose the doublevote just

in case it winds up being the RCslot today

and honestly nothing else is making me feel real good or passionate and nobody has presented anything resembling a good argument or case as to why i should move my vote

this doesn't appear to be a thing tho; not sure why you're still sitting on this really

==

varsoon, shoshin explained why 886 was a towntell for irrel like way in the beginning of your argument; i'm not entirely sure what the two of you are even arguing about tbh

==

vote irrelephant or reck

VOTE: reck

i dislike this the least out of all the current wagons

gammag -> claim is proveable + i think it's more likely than not town + i dislike the current wagon on him and don't townread most of it + gamestate loosely pointing to town

gammae -> mildly townreading on some combination of interest/gut/tone; don't think i can explain that any better besides pulling up some posts that sounded good tonally

irrel -> shoshin can read him better than me and i townread her and i think that her being this certain outweighs the gutpings i have on him; not really interested in compromising on him

reck -> i dislike voting rc on policy in rvs and sitting on that still even though a gammae wagon isn't really happening today + i think doublevoting is mildly likely to come from town but i literally can't think of anything i townread from him so

additionally i townread: shoshin, nsg, probably irrel, probably varsoon, probably kokichi; at least enough that i'm not interested in lynching any of them today

i'd prefer shoshin get gacha; failing that i want nsg or maybe varsoon to get it; i don't really townred anyone else enough rn to want them to have it; i don't think nsg/varaoon are viable wagons for that right now tho

[skitter30]

@xyzzy

i'm going to be v/la from like this evening till tuesday night or wednesday morning

[skitter30]

ok, let me rephrase that

i believe that shoshin can townread irrel that strongly off of that post. i think she's actually that stubborn and i think that she ardently believes everything she said. i also think that arguing with her about it won't change her mind.

i also believe that you don't think that's something worth townreading him over by itself, and that you're also stubborn and won't change your mind on it

i think that the two of you have wildly different ideas about how to approach mafia and i don't think that either of you are able to change the mind of the other, and that your two page argument left you basically where you started and didn't really accomplish much for anyone involved or change the reads/perspectives of anyone

[skitter30]

I do think it's still worth reading and informs both of our approaches to this game.

ye it pretty much reinforced my understanding of how both of you treat this game

[skitter30]

yeah i havent moved my vote bc i dont wanna lose the doublevote j

ust in case it winds up being the RCslot today

and honestly nothing else is making me feel real good or passionate and nobody has presented anything resembling a good argument or case as to why i should move my vote

i think i want to start here

VOTE: reck

i still don't like the bolded; at that point it was fairly close to end of day (about three irl days) and a gamma emerald wagon wasn't super viable at that point, and he posted a few times after that before eod when a gamma emerald wagon was looking less and less likely but he kept his vote there throughout and didn't really do much to help create/find a viable wagon towards end of day

like it felt like he was sitting on a vanity wagon and not really doing anything helpful with his vote at that point

also i'm a little bit dubious that when nsg kept posting reck or irrel all the votes except for like mine and irrel's ended up on irrel and none really ended up on reck; nobody is really townread him except for like varsoon as far as i can tell; when i voted it was 3 votes on irrel and 3 on gammagooey and 2 on reck

i'm aware that the irrel wagon gained momentum and that it was close to deadline but idk it still was a little bit surprising to me that all the votes were on irrel and that nobody really protested the irrel wagon

==

does anyone know how to read nos? if yes and you have a read on them can you enlighten me? because they're still uncomfortably null and i don't know what to do with them

==

nsg i was confidently townreading you at eod yesterday but the fact that you instigated this wagon is making me downgrade the read a bit

==

Irrel, if you're still reading, sorry for being insistent on your wagon. When you straight up disappeared under pressure, I thought you were caught scum not trying to throw up associative tells.

he has regular v/la on weekends; the wagon went down on sunday; it wasn't ai in any way; he even put up the vla flags this weekend

==

gacha vote:shoshin

==

Like unless it's porkens which I legit think is ludicrous I don't think I believe the claim

ok and you've just said it's not porkens

VOTE: Irrelephant11

why would you not believe it?

claiming masons seems kinda risky to me for scum to claim; they have to produce a partner and eventually explain why they aren't dead

p-edt ffs

i am more pissed about that than i want to explain right now

[skitter30]

really

[skitter30]

ok, why did you do that?

[skitter30]

ok, let's rephrase that:

why did you kill varsoon in particular?

(and not, say, porkens like you said you wanted to do)

[skitter30]

yeah ok

VOTE: gammagoo

[skitter30]

no let's use the day

[skitter30]

^^^^^^

also i want to try to sort reck and all the people i'm nullish on

also i'm annoyed about both irrelephant and varsoon, just wanted to say that again

also i'm tendign town on sircakez now

[skitter30]

No not too quick
We need to hear from people who were obsessed with varsoon and gammagoo defenders

the ^^^^^^^ was supposed to be for this post

[skitter30]

Was RC replaced or not?

yes that's now gamma emerald

[skitter30]

yeah i was kinda thinking the same

i'm a little surprised that nsg ignored shoshin hard-townreading irrel and wanted a lynch there anyways

also i'm kinda dubious about the back end of the irrel wagon given that there were 8 votes on it and a lot of those votes came in quick succession

i will note that there was a fair amount of overlap between the gammagooey and irrel wagons tho

[skitter30]

also i'm annoyed about both irrelephant and varsoon, just wanted to say that again

Yeh, I should've noted Gammagooey claiming 1-shot vig is way more likely to come from scum.

you mean instead of dayvig?

i'm lowkey wondering why he didn't just use it yesterday

does anyoen know if it says anywhere if scum has daytalk? irrel made it sound like the masons did

[skitter30]

yeah i was thinking nos doesn't look super good; that's why i was asking about them at daystart

2/5 of the people i was townreading are now dead

town: still shoshin; probably sircakez; maybe nsg? not super confident on her tho; maybe gamma emeral; maaaaaybe kokichi?

null: prokens

scummy and/or below null: gammagooey, nos, reck

i don't know where to put creature

[skitter30]

also i'm annoyed about both irrelephant and varsoon, just wanted to say that again

Yeh, I should've noted Gammagooey claiming 1-shot vig is way more likely to come from scum.

you mean instead of dayvig?

i'm lowkey wondering why he didn't just use it yesterday

does anyoen know if it says anywhere if scum has daytalk? irrel made it sound like the masons did

maybe it's because they didn't get a kill in last night and people were expecting two kills at night and we had 0 and he decided a one-for-one exchange was worth it?

idk he basically claimed scum so i'm wondering why he wasn't like ... more subtle about it? or waited until he was like about to get lynched?

maybe he had to do it in his first post of the day? thisi probably isn't a thing; more just thinking aloud to myself

[skitter30]

i get it now

[skitter30]

that list was only on the condition that irrel was town tho and he didn't believe that so idk what relationship that list has with his actual reads

[skitter30]

ah ok

[skitter30]

Normally, I'd be throwing down on Gammagoo for that hammer,

but I'm actually pretty sure of scum that isn't him.

So right now, I'm gonna sit on that, though, 'cus I am interested in what everyone else has to think.
Gooey, do you have anything you want to share?

yeah ok i missed this the first time around

[skitter30]

ok creature can be town too for now

also i think that gammagooey prob isn't scum with porkens given how strongly he was trying to make taht a thing

[skitter30]

yeah i was thinking that he prob didn't rb him given how strongly he townread him, especially on a green irrel flip

[skitter30]

Yeh, scum are trying to gain gold themselves.

i feel like reck's vote could be a bus too

[skitter30]

this is xyzzy, your moderator, your best friend, and your hair. I'm all the hair on your body!

i'm really enjoying these

==

Yeh, scum are trying to gain gold themselves.

i feel like reck's vote could be a bus too

it's not tho

i mean ok?

oddly enough i'm not going to take your word for it

==

scum probably got the self watcher and knew they had to kill varsoon. might be able to catch another scum from spending histories

i'm wondering if scum can pool together gold amongst their members

i have no idea if this is a thing or not but it feels like the sort of factional ability scum may have

==

I want gold. I don’t care who dies.

[skitter30]

1 player voting for Shoshin for Fantasy Gachapon (skitter30)
1 player voting for Gammagooey for Fantasy Gachapon (Gammagooey)

i'm starting to lose my townread on nsg a bit

i think i would be voting reck here but i have been informed that once i vote today i cannot change it for the rest of the day so i'm going to hold off a bit

[skitter30]

i think i would be voting reck here but i have been informed that once i vote today i cannot change it for the rest of the day so i'm going to hold off a bit

once i vote for either gacha or lynch i can't change my vote and i can't vote for the other one either

[skitter30]

Yeah both of those are pretty bad

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

im rushing in

fuck it VOTE: gammagooey

I think these are bad too

[skitter30]

Who do you think Varsoon rb'd? His reads seem to point to Emerald/Kokichi, maybe you or Pork.

I think kokichi

I'm not super seeing gamma scum right now, nor porkens scum

[skitter30]

Unless gammagoo was trying to bus porkens for the gold he's town; i didnt super grt that vibe tbh; i felt like he was going after lynchbait

[skitter30]

Gamma what the fuck

Literally what the fuck why

OOOOOH he claimed beheader
If he's Jess the Beheader that's probably a scumclaim tbh

Gamma gimme like one good reason not to park both my votes on you the rest of the day you turd

but WHY did he scumclaim

fuck it VOTE: gammagooey

This sequence of posts feel overdramatic and kinda faked to me, like he was trying to make sure everyone knew how surprised/confused he was by the dayvig

[skitter30]

@koki & RC - why do you think NSG is likely scum here? Cause her reads and posts that she's made so far seem perfectly fine to me, the only real complaint I'd have about her is that she doesn't seem as aggressive about her reads as she was in the one town game I've seen her in but I think that makes sense given that game was a large and this is a mini that just started this week.

This is kinda meh

[skitter30]

I think kokichi

I'm not super seeing gamma scum right now, nor porkens scum

Can you explain why?

Gamma's porkens push doesnt feel like bussing; that was his top scumread and he was consistently trying to get him wagoned; it felt like he was going after lynchbait; ill pull up quoted if you want me to later when im not on my phone

Gamma is still kinda gut. Idk if i can really explain it super well

[skitter30]

vla from nowish till tuesday night

[skitter30]

What the-
Hold up

Yeah no: what the fuck are you doing
I thought you could have switcheroo but you weren’t on both lynches which makes that rather improbable

these kinda feel town to me

==

Oh I forgot about the dumb costco thing lol. I'm legitimately fine with being lynched

this kinda feels like you're trying to show that you feel blase/uncaring about being lynched

==

What's different?

you feel like less like into it than american presidents

you're still prob town but you feel kinda different

==

Gamma claim.who you gave fruit to. It would prove you were not roleblocked

I’ll just claim now since I think my role is important
I’m a food vendor. I won’t say who I targeted or what I vend specifically until someone speaks up about receiving any food.

But I figured I could vend to Kokichi tonight, ask who got food, and see if a switcheroo happened. That’s why I said I wasn’t interested in voting him today.

also i think that he's not trying to use the fruit vendor ability to prove he wasn't rb'd is kinda townie; like he's claiming here ot figure out the switcheroo thing and not the rb thing

==

I just want to hop on GE wagon but I'm afraid itll look scummy.

will it?

why do you want to hop on ge here

==

still want to wagon reck. or nos. i'm losing my townread on nsg. idk how i read kokichi right now and i townread everyone else (shoshin, porkens, creature, gamma)

[skitter30]

i was thinking about it a bit more and i think that reck sitting on gamma emerald at the end of day 1 is low-key townie in that since he claims that if he changes his vote he loses the double-vote, the irrel lynch would have required 8 votes instead of 7 if he had moved off of gamma, which imo would have made the mislynch slightly harder to get

[skitter30]

Im kinda troubled by the fact that nsg isnt really doing anything

[skitter30]

i was thinking about it a bit more and i think that reck sitting on gamma emerald at the end of day 1 is low-key townie in that since he claims that if he changes his vote he loses the double-vote, the irrel lynch would have required 8 votes instead of 7 if he had moved off of gamma, which imo would have made the mislynch slightly harder to get

Okay can you rephrase this because it’s incredibly hard to tell what point you’re making
Feels like a SHROOP tbh

basically that staying on you meant that it took one more vote to mislynch someone; i'm kinda wondering if scum would have voted like anywhere else in order to make a mislynch a little bit easier for them given the deadline and the fact that people were having a very hard time coming to any sort of conclusion

although looking again he didn't post between gammagooey being the leading wagon in 1108 and eod so this could just be a moot point (ie if he's scum with gammagooey he wants it to take 8 votes to get a lynch in and he wouldn't have much incentive to switch while his partner was the leading wagon). in this context staying on you while the gamma wagon built is kinda scummy imo

no idea what shroop means

Im kinda troubled by the fact that nsg isnt really doing anything

seems disingenuous considering the overall pace of the game

it's more a combo of knowing you tend to flake out of scumgames (like, say, gerrymandering - you can keep up the energy/posting for a while and than you kinda petered out till you eventually got replaced; jungle republic too) + you driving the mislynch day1 and like ... not really re-evaluating upon the townflip; your posts since the irrel flip are kinda meh and i would kinda expect a townie who was that wrong to re-evaluate or start looking elsewhere for scum but i'm not really seeing that happening that much tbh

[skitter30]

saying i should be reevaluating implies there was something associative to my scumreads, which isn't the case. i've always liked cogito ergo sum's thoughts on this:

I know this is a concept floating for some reason but this is actually the completely opposite of how it works. Eddie (and Postie) flipping town simply makes it more likely that Marquis is scum - there's only 3 scum and quite a few people look townie to various degrees so it's only become more likely that Marquis is scum. If you're looking for someone and there's 2 man-sized bushes, it's 50-50 they're in the first one but if the first bush is empty, then it's very likely Marquis is hiding in the other one.

ok what do you think about reck (ie the other person you were trying to get lynched that day that you haven't really mentioned much since then)?

SHROOP is a shorthand for a post that because of oddness in how they're written have higher scum equity, based on the idea that scum are more likely to revise and thus more likely to make those errors.

still don't really know what you're trying to say, sorry

[skitter30]

oh got it

eh i can understand that; i think i'd have cared more about trying to make it more comprehensible if i was scum but whatever

[skitter30]

I'm guessing I'm villager cause my role only talks about gold so that as well

If shoshin still has the 1s nea I think we can use that to resolve kokichi

[skitter30]

Btw

hard claiming I'm hated

So try not to accidentally lynch me

I forgot about this. I'm hated so dont forget. But yea I am VT

oh yeah i forgot you were hated too

i feel like hated makes you not-vt? or am i wrong?

[skitter30]

i kinda doubt he has enough gold to have bought a swap tbh; he was only on the first lynch

[skitter30]

i'm a little hesitant to commit to a vote atm cuz i can't change it this dayphase; kinda worried that we'll have a deadline lynch again and that my vote will be stuck somewhere kinda inconvenient

but i'd be voting reck if that wasn't a thing

also that reminds me that people should make sure to vote for gacha cuz last time gammagoo tried to screw with it

i kinda low-key townread kokichi all in all but i think he's the most likely person for varsoon to have rb'd out of the bottom four from his list so i'm a little ???? not sure. don't really think the switcheroo thing is something we have to worry about from him rn

[skitter30]

right i mean i guess my point is there are two options:

- koki is telling the truth, in which case, scum won't ever shoot koki and koki in lylo = scum win
- koki is lying, in which case, scum

i don't see an avenue to success that isn't Lynch Koki

i mean he could theoretically be hated!scum too

also why do you think it wouldn't be turned off in lylo?

[skitter30]

i mean i don't know that it *is* removed in lylo; i just remember a game i played where i was hated and it *didn't* get removed in lylo and people kept going on and on and on about how scumsided that was and that the mod should have removed it in lylo so i kinda assumed that was a thing

i think if you had lolhammered kokichi here you would have been under quite a lot of scrutiny tomorrow; idk how well you could have just waived that off

i don't really get why that prompted a gamma vote either really

[skitter30]

for someone who was apparently scumreading kokichi you seem awfully willing to take him at his word

He did claim hated in his first post (albeit we all forgot but it seems kinda weird that kokichi would be faking something like this from that point) + reck's doublevoting apparently doesnt mention lylo in the pm so that makes sense that he believes him about the role + iirc jenkins makes sense as hated (tbf its been like two years since i listened to that arc so its possible im misremembering)

Im a little more uncertain on how reck is confident he's town!hated tho

Also im not sure why 1448 indicates a scumread on kokichi. However im a little ??? about that post because reck doesnt really seem to be taking into account the possibility of scum!hated kokichi who is telling the truth about his role. Like his options are: town who needs to be resolved before lylo and scun kying about being hated; here he also seems kinda lumping role and alignment together

==

Oh wait.

I'M at L-1 SINCE IM HATED

So it was just a VC error but still
Why post this if you’ve already given up?
VOTE: Kokichi Oma

Not super following this vote or what prompted it

You clearly read my post because you knew I voted you. So why did you said I still gave up?

1323 left less of an impression on me than the self vote

Bur the self-vote happened at daystart and he's since unvoted ... why are tou voting him about it now?

[skitter30]

But he doesnt realy sound like he's given up right now? Like he keeps trumpeting the fact that he's at l1

Like i guess im just kinda confused why youre making a thing about the selfvote several days irl after it happened

[skitter30]

yes?

[skitter30]

yes?

u get the hammer vote

oh got it

i'm kinda mulling it over but i'm not super liking the wagon comp and i don't really scumread gamma tbh. like voting kokichi for the self-vote several days after the fact is bad but idk if it's scummy really and i can see him doing that as town tbh. also i think the resignedness to being lynched is low-key townie

gatchapon vote:

kokichi

why?

not super sure i want nsg to get gacha either; i'd prob prefer creature or shoshin

[skitter30]

Maybe skitter actually
I feel like getting targeted by that vote fuckery make skitter likely town

what vote fuckery?

Skitter can’t switch votes from the first one he makes
He also can only vote for lynch or gacha
And hell no to Kokichi getting gacha

(i'm a she btw)

don't really like the nos vote for kokichi, nor the reck and kokichi self-votes

i'd prefer nsg over them and her self-vote didn't bother me quite as much i suppose but i'd really rather shoshin or creature; preferably shoshin imo

[skitter30]

Sorry, not fruit, fried unicorn dick? Or something. It was too much for my mind to handle, so I substituted fruit in the memory.

lmao yeah that was a really weird interlude/episode/thing that i kinda cringe-listened to

==

The only reason I townread you is because of RC, and that depends on his slot being town, which isn't clear at this point. In terms of your actual play, you've pretty much done nothing towny, and you've done something scummy in that you lynched Irrelephant despite his obvious townness and despite the fact that I pointed out multiple reasons to townread him.

this is kinda where i'm at on nsg tbh

and you've done something scummy in that you lynched Irrelephant despite his obvious townness

and despite the fact that I pointed out multiple reasons to townread him

.

this is scumreading me for being wrong.

That's called ignoring relevant evidence and that's a scum-tell. Explain to me why you ignored me in pushing that lynch?

@nsg can you answer this please?

==

Nosferatu also looks considerably worse w/the Irrelephant flip and his wagon positioning.

FALSE!

TRUE!

==

Skitter why have you not voted gamma yet? You pointed out what was wrong with his voting and timing as well.

i'm kinda mulling it over but i'm not super liking the wagon comp and i don't really scumread gamma tbh. like voting kokichi for the self-vote several days after the fact is bad but idk if it's scummy really and i can see him doing that as town tbh. also i think the resignedness to being lynched is low-key townie

now thinking that the resignedness to being lynched is high-key townie for him because of 1608 and 1612

also not sure why multiple people are asking me to hammer

==

id rather give gacha to me to force scum to kill an edge case player

That's the problem. I don't remember you being an edge case as town.

scum aren't going to kill me as long as people are going "ah geez idk about reck not sure" so im about the best person to give it to

if we give it to nsg, everyone is already reading her as town, so scum have a very easy choice to make

i mean everyone townreads shoshin and she's gotten it twice and she isn't dead yet so idk why you think the gacha vote is a super important factor for scum when deciding who to nk

also everyone is not townreading nsg

[skitter30]

wasnt the gacha yesterday just more gold or something

I mean you're basically saying that there are some gacha items not worth being nk'd over. Given that we don't know what tonight's is, asking to get gacha in order to get nk'd is kinda silly and kinda scummy-lamist-y

[skitter30]

If anyone is townreading reck can you say why please?

[skitter30]

Also kokichi how do you read nos?

[skitter30]

do not put it on shoshin again jfc

we're bound to hit a good useful ability and shoshin could just take all three gachas to the grave tonight

She said she can get switcheroo so why is this something to be concerned about?

[skitter30]

Ok so will you vote shoshin now?

[skitter30]

Gamma how do you read reck?

[skitter30]

ok can you try to figure out/remember why?

[skitter30]

can we wagon reck?

[skitter30]

Skitter why have you not voted gamma yet? You pointed out what was wrong with his voting and timing as well.

i'm kinda mulling it over but i'm not super liking the wagon comp and i don't really scumread gamma tbh. like voting kokichi for the self-vote several days after the fact is bad but idk if it's scummy really and i can see him doing that as town tbh. also i think the resignedness to being lynched is low-key townie

now thinking that the resignedness to being lynched is high-key townie for him because of 1608 and 1612

are you like not reading my posts since i answered this twice already ... ?

[skitter30]

can we wagon reck?

skitter i think you're town but youre gonna have to come to terms w/ my towniness at some point, lets start by you casing me

i've said all this before i think but i'll put it in one place:

i dislike that you stayed on gamma emerald throughout the entirety of day 1; you said you were hoping that it would swing back to gamma emerald (1014) but imo it was fairly apparent that that wasn't happening that day at that point. at that point it bothered me because you weren't doing much to help get a useful lynch; staying on gamma emerald throughout day1 became scummier to me when i realized that you stayed on throughout the gammagooey day1 wagon - by keeping your vote on the first person you voted that day you made the lynch threshold 8 votes instead of 7, all while gammagooey was getting wagoned; if you're partners with him you were trying to make it harder to lynch him

i also feel like your reaction to gammagooey's dayvig was kinda fake/overdramatic/overblown - like you were trying to make sure everyone knew how surprised you were that he had done that

i also dislike you voting yourself for gacha; you have to know that you're not nearly townread enough to get it today; the gacha wagons were rather low at that point (one or two votes at most) so i felt like you were hoping that while you might not get a lot of support you might get just enough to disrupt someone townread from getting it; i didn't like that i had to prod you into voting shoshin for it given that the reasoning you gave for wanting it was bad (forcing scum to nk you)

in a vacuum i low-key townread first-vote-double-voter on role, but we had a scum dayvig so townreading you for that is kinda silly; i don't really townread like anything you've actually done. most of it i view as nai or scummy

[skitter30]

a) for like the seventh time now, i can't change my vote today once i vote (aside i'm assuming this is a scum ability since nobody claimed it). i'll vote for a reck/nos wagon if either of them get high enough. i'm not voting right now because i can low-key see this going to deadline and i don't want my vote stuck somewhere inconvenient if i'm needed for a deadline lynch

b) i think reck is a lot scummier than kokichi

c) you're confusing gamma and kokichi (your avis are similar enough that i've been confusing both of them too)

[skitter30]

1. i wasnt hoping it would swing back. i said i was leaving my vote there in case it did and because nothing else was really catching my interest. that's a huge difference.

i mean that still doesn't change the fact that keeping it on made it harder to lynch gammgooey

2. i...honestly didnt even realize my shit would change the threshold lmfao. but another point: why would i work to save gamma d1 just for him to self destruct and instabus him d2?

a) xyzzy puts the number of votes required to lynch in every single vc and i even also talked about it being 8 votes to hammer towards the end of day1 so i'm not entirely sure how you could have possibly missed that.

b) i mean there's no way that you could have known that varsoon would have rb'd scum overnight; gamma's dayvig seemed to be a direct response to how varsoon opened day2 (also i wouldn't describe what you did as 'working to save gamma'; all you had to do is ... not change your vote, which is exactly what you did for rather dubious reasons imo)

3. gammagooey is my IRL friend. we've known each other for about 7 years now and hang out in person pretty regularly. we used to live 5 minutes away from each other. so the way i interact with him is gonna be way different from anything else. i was legit shocked @ him for doing that because i know him. and also a little salty that he was so scummy bc he was my one tether to sanity this game it felt

that's fair; i didn't know this

4. the only reason i voted shoshin was because you reminded me about the switcheroo. i still am basically only confident in myself being town so yes, im going to use my gachapon vote to give it to someone i actually trust (that someone being me). i also think i am gonna keep getting left alive as mislynch bait since my ability is p much useless (oh woo hoo a double vote one time at the start of the day) so ill do anything i can to force scum to NK me before you asshats mislynch me

a) i mean that's a fair perspective from your pov but given that you aren't that townread rn trying to get gacha rn is wishful thinking at best and scummy at worst from my pov

b) realitiscally i don't think you're getting nk'd any time in the near future; honestly i don't really think getting gacha is going to do much to change that rn unless it's something like really op

==

also like skitter go back and reread gammagooey defending me d1 against rc

like i dont think there's any world in which i let him do that if we're scum together

that was absolutely him doing it to pocket me

you mean 757?

ok, why do you not let him do that if you're scum with him?

(also does he like even run posts by his partner as scum? cuz if not, whether or not you'd let him do it is kinda irrelevant.)

[skitter30]

All I did was make that post as a prodge post which is evident because I didn't see skit's reply

how do you read nos?

[skitter30]

if i was scum w/ gamma and had daytalk we deff wouldve talked about whether he should defend me or not in the scum PT before he did that, yes, 100%

obviously you'd know what you/gamma would do in that scenario better than i do, but i'm also a little hesitant to trust this info since you're the one telling it to me in your own defense

[skitter30]

That if I wanted to follow you I could have done it sooner?

ok and what does this mean?

that because you had the opportunity to switch to reck, and didn't, that diminishes the fact that you did switch?

i'm actually a little confused why your'e voting reck and not gamma rn?

[skitter30]

VOTE: reck

[skitter30]

sorry reck

koki why is gamma scum?

i've kinda lost my townread on nsg

gamma why do you find that nk surprising?

[skitter30]

cuz i thought he was scum and at l1 and didn't really have anything else to add

[skitter30]

nsg what are your reads like right about now?

[skitter30]

sorry reck

koki why is gamma scum?

i've kinda lost my townread on nsg

gamma why do you find that nk surprising?

That wasn’t really a surprise reaction as much as a “gfdi” one cos I targeted Creature with my ability last night

yeah i feel kinda the same way tbh

[skitter30]

nsg what are your reads like right about now?

thinking that nosferatu might be the most likely to be scum

having done a bit of self-reflecting he's occupied the "silently scummy" spot this entire game and i have always firmly believed that those people are the most likely to be scum. plus, a lot of his play yesterday just doesn't hold up under closer scrutiny, especially his reasons for being on the reck wagon at all and his reaction when reck called him out for it

Nosferatu is just openly trolling and admitting the wagon on me is dumb but staying on it anyway

imma be for real for real

i did not forsee the gamma nsg scumteam and if i was awake and saw that nsg vote i would have unvoted

~probably~ should have with the shit that rc did regarding nsg but

i was trolling pretty hard right there and your anger is ~mostly~ valid

i feel kinda the same way about nos tbh; i feel like he's kinda skating by

that post feels kinda weird to me but i'm not sure if it's scummy weird.

it kinda feels like he's pre-emptively apologizing for reck flipping town and being on the wagon and like setting up going after you + gamma today.

[skitter30]

gamma do you have any thoughts on skitters wordless hammer as it might relate to her alignment

what are your thoughts wrt my wordless hammer as it might relate to my alignment

[skitter30]

like i'm not sure how he's coming to a gamma/nsg scumteam really

also not sure if he cares about being on mislynches really as town? like that isn't the vibe i super got from him in gerrymandering

[skitter30]

no idea what that means, sorry

[skitter30]

eh i was going to say something else but got p-edited so lets go with that i guess

[skitter30]

i was going to cite jungle republic as an example (the sando lynch) but i was apparently on wagon already

really the only reason i wasn't on the wagon before that was because of the vote thing

(that didn't happen to me again today; i can vote normally)

gacha vote: shoshin

[skitter30]

VOTE: Nosferatu
Meant to do this in the previous post
L-1 btw

Who are the other two people voting nos?

[skitter30]

I'm fairly confident that shoshin is town; kinda think porkens is town too

I'm a little lost after that rn

Also i'm pretty sure we need to policy kokichi today because if he's town tomorrow in lylo and the hated modifier doesnt fall off scum just win

Also think its lowkey scummy of him to not be concerned about that and to have not brought it up

[skitter30]

Oh I mistook your gacha bote aa you voting nos I think

Why did you put nos at what you believed to be l1? That seemed kinda fast/not-cautious to me

[skitter30]

and you've done something scummy in that you lynched Irrelephant despite his obvious townness

and despite the fact that I pointed out multiple reasons to townread him

.

this is scumreading me for being wrong.

That's called ignoring relevant evidence and that's a scum-tell. Explain to me why you ignored me in pushing that lynch?

@nsg can you answer this please?

@nsg

Its been like two dayphases and i still dont know why you did this

[skitter30]

Jenkins

Doesnt say anything about lylo

[skitter30]

Uh no you didnt.

Also reck's flip didnt mention lylo either (although creature's limited it to when 5 players are alive)

[skitter30]

Also think its lowkey scummy of him to not be concerned about that and to have not brought it up

this is a really good thought

tring skitter a bit more

I guess im thinking of that one game where i was hated and it didnt fall off and i made it very very very clear that this was a thing that needed to be handled somehow before lylo because it was a pretty big liabilty

And he just seems kinda meh about it - and he just kinda never mentioned that the mod said it falls off which i feel is a significant piece of information to forget tk share?

[skitter30]

@nsg

Its been like two dayphases and i still dont know why you did this

disagreeing with someone isn't "ignoring evidence". it just isn't. yes, i was wrong. doesn't mean i "ignored evidence"

Maybe i"m mistaken, but i was under the impression that you ascribe to math's school of thought to some degree, wherein a player is trying to read X and will depend on Y's read of X since Y can read X very welll.

In that context Im a little surprised that you disregarded shoshin here, but maybe im just wrong about how you view crowdsourcing reads

[skitter30]

there's 10 minutes between your post and his and you're telling me you were just sitting on this thought waiting for someone else to say it before you felt like mentioning that you were thinking it

im calling bs on that

(Im a she btw)

[skitter30]

So ... if youre town and alive tomorrow and its lylo we just lose?

[skitter30]

(Im a she btw)

whoops. i just want u to know that even when i say he, i mean she.

as contrary as that sounds o/

that's ok

gamma what do you think about the kokichi/hated thing?

[skitter30]

Look, it makes a lot more sense to lynch Koki today than to wait until tomorrow.

There's multiple reasons for this, but the main one is that we narrow down the pool of potential scum, and I have another chance to use a gachapon ability. And this time, maybe I'll get some sort of investigative ability that will help us figure this out, or some gold so that I can use the investigation.

It also gives people a chance to use their gold on investigations or something, so that maybe we'll have results.

i mean you've gotten an investigative (1s nea) and a 1s jk and quite a lot of gold (at least 300 that i know about). has none of that been useful?

[skitter30]

(Im a she btw)

whoops. i just want u to know that even when i say he, i mean she.

as contrary as that sounds o/

that's ok

gamma what do you think about the kokichi/hated thing?

I think it sucks and I wish he’d gotten that info sooner
I’ve also been trying to think of ways to just make him lynch immune but nothing comes to mind other than switcheroo which could backfire
@Kokichi I’m curious why exactly you gave up during D3?

what's botheirng me is that i feel like if he's town he'd want to resolve that somehow and he's just been kinda blase-y / whatever-y about it

[skitter30]

i'm still not entirely sure why people are scumreading gamma tbh

[skitter30]

because i'm not sure what my read on him (or on gamma or nsg or nos really) is and i don't want the day to end yet ...

[skitter30]

Well, the JK obviously didn't stop the kill, so I can't say if it was helpful yet.

i mean my point was that asking to get gacha to get gold or an investigative seems a little weird to me given that you've gotten both of those things already which leads me to wonder what happened to the previous ones and if they were dispensed usefully or not

[skitter30]

because i don't know what my reads are for like 4/6 of the other players ...

like i'm not objecting to lynching koki because he has to be resolved before lylo somehow but i don't know why it has to happen right now and not in like in a few days irl from now

p-edit no why are we doing this right now

[skitter30]

gamma you're just like wagon-hopping on the biggest wagon

[skitter30]

again can we like actually use the dayphase first ... ?

why are we lynching right now?

[skitter30]

uh try to sort all the people i'm having trouble sorting rn? and i usually do that by talking to them and seeing what they have to say

[skitter30]

like what are you gaining by ending the dayphase rn?

[skitter30]

I want to hear what Koki's done with the gold.

But to answer your question, I want to see Koki's flip.

I don't see much point in sorting alignments until I get his flip.

this is an incredibly foreign mindset to me and i'm really having trouble with the notion of rushing the gameday like this

how do you read nsg?

[skitter30]

gacha unvote

[skitter30]

gamma you're just like wagon-hopping on the biggest wagon

gamma why are you doing this?

[skitter30]

i guess what's bothering me is that you keep on hopping onto the hip wagons

you did it for kokichi and nos today
and reck and kokichi yesterday

and i don't remember ever seeing you lolvote like this

it's making me feel like you don't really care about who in particular gets wagoned

[skitter30]

it's making me feel like you don't really care about who in particular gets wagoned

So this was the important part of that post

Have you done this as scum before?

[skitter30]

nsg i know i can't read you super well but i'm becoming increasingly concerned that you feel very passive and like i'm not really getting the sense that you're trying to solve the game

like i don't really think you've done anything you can't particularly fake

[skitter30]

Why would you give it to Creature?

Give it to me tonight. I won't die. I can confirm your role.

he's already confirmed his role?

[skitter30]

i mean unless you think scum is exactly {nsg/gamma} he confirmed his role already ... ?

[skitter30]

i think me claiming will make my ability slightly less likely to be used/happen in the present gamestate

but overall i guess i'm kinda ambivalent about claiming.
and i suppose if we're seriously talking about pl'ing someone today because of their role getting everything on the table at this time kinda makes sense

and shoshin if you'd be clear as to whether or not you still have switcheroo and can be killed in the nearish future that would be kinda helpful for me

i'd want the scummy people to claim first tho

[skitter30]

shoshin do you scumread kokichi rn or do you just want to pl him?

like why does that team make sense to you, especially given that you feel nsg was being difficult in confirming gamma's action? (if she was trying to help him make a fake-claim why was her part of that kinda contrary and messy?)

i think if we're voting someone for being hated it only makes sense to mass-claim so we know where everyone's at tbh

[skitter30]

gacha vote: me

[skitter30]

Whoever is town should vote Kokichi before the scum do.

explain this again?

do you think kokichi is town or scum?

[skitter30]

Skitter, why are you voting yourself for gacha?

because i'm starting to lose my townread on you

[skitter30]

VOTE: nsg

why are your posts so banal and passive and like ... not scum-hunt-y?

[skitter30]

VOTE: nsg

why are your posts so banal and passive and like ... not scum-hunt-y?

Why won't you lynch Koki? Why are you so sure he's town, so incredibly sure that you're not even willing to lynch him when there's literally no downside whatsoever to lynching him today?

i said that i was fine lynching kokichi *after we tried to use the dayphase*

i never said i wouldn't lynch him today, and i never said i was sure he was town

don't put words in my mouth

i was also under the impression we were still talking about massclaim

i'm also becoming increasing concerned about how passive nsg is, and i feel like pl'ing someone without like using the dayphase enables her to lurk/coast without doing anything (see day2 where she did ... like nothing)

[skitter30]

do you think kokichi is town or scum?

I think he'll fiip scum.

But even if he's town, it's still better to lynch him today so that we get another night to use gold and gacha.

The point is that Koki's the best lynch, and I'd prefer townies getting the gold from this lynch over scum.

If Koki is scum and scum bus him, they get a lot of gold.

If Koki is town and scum mislynch him, they still get gold from voting him.

Like, how is this not obvious to the townies here?

i think if he's town scum don't want to lynch him today because they'd much pefer him to be in lylo

notice how he hasn't gotten hammered yet

[skitter30]

i literally just said i'm not ignoring your reasononing. in fact i said more than once that we need to pl kokichi today (i'm even the person who brought it up in the first place )

what i said was that i don't think it needs to happen *this very minute*, not that i don't think it should happen this dayphase

[skitter30]

and voting kokichi is hammer rn since he's hated and i don't want to end the dayphase ...

i'm not entirely sure what we're arguing about here tbh. we're literally on the same page, except you want to lynch kokichi rn and i want to try to sort nsg and i want to resolve the massclaim thing before that happens

and i'm voting nsg because she ignored me the last like three times i pointed out how passive she's being and i want to see what, if anything, she'll say to me voting her over it

[skitter30]

is this the first game we've played together in a while? i don't think that i'm playing all that much differently than i've played in my recent games, although i would understand if you were comparing to my games from a while ago (say, before this summer)

i'm thinking of the two games i played with alt!you over the summer where you were scum (hedging slightly cuz it seems you don't want the alt explicitly stated; lmk if you want me to say which ones)

in both you started out active and just became less and less of a presence and i think your play here kinda mirrors your play in both of those games - like as those games went on your posts there basically devolved into posting for the sake of posting and not getting prodded. a lot of your posts over the past few dayphases felt like that, as did 1917 and 1918

most recent towngame with you iirc was the one with alt!you (the one with the guilty) and also that newbie that you repped into (the one with ruru and math and ofrhz). i didn't know it was you in the altgame, but in the newbie yeah i misread you as scum for being kinda inactive, but when you did post it was thought-provoking and insightful

like here it's not an activity-based read. it's based on the fact that your posts are just missing content/drive/scumhunting/whatever-the-word-is when you do post

i mean, i would argue that from an objective standpoint i think i have pretty strong reasons to be townread (the strongest being RC's read on me)

what would these reasons be?

[skitter30]

i mean, rc's read is first and foremost (and probably takes precedence over everything else, honestly), but apart from that i guess i would call it more of a relative thing - that is, i feel like a lot of people are playing scummy this game, even people who i doubt are actually scum (like porkens and to a lesser extent shoshin)

by the way, you keep pointing out how passive i'm being as if it's something that you don't expect, which is strange to me, because that's basically been all my towngame has been recently (much to my chagrin as i've mentioned multiple times in dead threads of recent games).

i think your view of me might be being falsely shaped by your experience with that other, more aggressive player.

yeah so i guess that's why i'm a little stuck - my biggest townread atm is probs shoshin but we have major playstyle differences and it's throwing me off and then porkens and that's mainly on associatives and not really for anything he's done

and i don't really townread anyone else even though at least 2 of {you/gamma/kokichi/nos} are town

i guess on some level i want you to be town + scumhunting to help me sort through this

i really haven't played a towngame with you-you since february i'm pretty sure

i think the bolded is a fair point too

link me a recent towngame that you think is representative of this playstyle?

[skitter30]

hmmm ok

that makes me feel slightly better ( + the bolded above)

and i guess there's also a slight element of bop that's bothering me too - you were wrong on irrel and reck and mentioned gamma like twice (really the only place you talked about him was 994 wherein you wanted to lynch irrel and reck over him)

(also i think gammagooey's associatives are slightly partner-y - specifically 568)

why aren't you really considering scum!gammaemerald?

[skitter30]

i really haven't played a towngame with you-you since february i'm pretty sure

i forgot about brass's pick your poison; that was the last game i'm pretty sure

==

@nosferatu, thoughts on kokichi needing to die before tomorrow?

why can't we kill him tomorrow

... because the hated modifier doesn't fall off?

why would you want him in lylo?

==

i'm feeling kinda better about nsg

i don't really think kokichi is scum tbh but i think he does need to be pl'd. although i guess it doesn't really matter. if we pl him today and he's town we need to lynch scum tomorrow or we lose. if we don't lynch him today we need to lynch scum today or we lose. basically i don't think the order matters so much i guess.

also i think kokichi's utter ambivalence about gammagooey getting lynched day1 is +town (he said something along the lines of 'let's lynch gamma over a no-lynch today')

i don't really particularly think he's flipping scum

kinda think nos is scum tbh