Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

[BuJaber]

You all suck for this game starting during a hellish work week.

VOTE: Fortian

[BuJaber]

My crumbing skills are of the chart man. Nobody caught it last game nobody will this game.

[BuJaber]

PS I only crumbed my flavor

[BuJaber]

I am reporting that I have a negative utility to town.
I can ONLY hammer, and if I place a vote that isn't the hammer, I will be modkilled.

---
I will openly claim now as well. I am

THE

Sylvester Stallone. I am not one of his characters he's played, but the actual person as my role. As the actual person, I must have final say in the lynch," i.e. I can only hammer. Don't ask why the mod chose to make my role and flavor as it is, I don't know. Don't ask me to vote if it's not the hammer, it won't happen.

A50 has to be trolling you. Why do you get the crazy roles that sound like a complete LIE but that nobody would ever fake claim...

Except this time A50 said there will be fake claims.

I still believe you though.. also I think you have a high chance of killing yourself anyway. This is based on me not trusting myself to not die with a role like that, I project the same level of human error potential on you.

Ooo cheeky is town already. Verrrrrrrry interesting.

Based on what? And why would it be interesting?

I'm mad that Toog took my fake claim...

Anyways, I'm a Jinglebell Jester. If I'm lynched before 3p Lylo, everyone loses and Jingle wins. My wincon is to be lynched in 3p Lylo. Also, I'm Bulletproof, so no shooting me kiddos.

Anyone wanna end the game right now?

Yes actually I don't believe such a role would exist.

Why is the jester the towniest person.....besides Cheeky.

You're2right2!2I2should2claim2scum2.2

This made me laugh. Nice attitude to have regarding the last game.

[BuJaber]

Oh wait Jester is considered bastard on MS, right?

gg well played Tails

[BuJaber]

Hey kid.
I didnt finish reading but I hope things won't be this active all game.
I forgot how spammy these games get from the word go.

Anyways so far I have a scum read on RR and cherkteeky.
RR typically cerb is the wise and much more thoughtful of the hydra. His random vote and rational for his vote comes across as fake.
Cheekteeky looks like surface scum hunting. Basically asking questions that give nothing and read as oh I'm going to ask this because i can, not because i want a response.

VOTE: RR

Sounds like you should be voting cheeky.

[BuJaber]

Profii what was your previous avatar?

[BuJaber]

Profii what was your previous avatar?

another pic of my dog i would guess... also yeah i was thinking that about the post above this

Guess I'll have to read some old games then, because that was not as helpful for me as I thought.

[BuJaber]

My crumbing skills are of the chart man. Nobody caught it last game nobody will this game.

Isn't the point of crumbs that people pick them up?
NOT THAT IT MATTERS EVEN IF YOU DO CRUMB SOMETHIN
LIKE IT'S NOT AS IF PEOPLE WILL PICK UP A GUILTY CRUMB AND ACTUALLY LYNCH ON IT
EVEN WHEN YOU EXPLICITLY. SPELL. IT. OUT.

That's what I thought at first but in my mind my crumb in overkill 1 was obvious and it didn't get picked up, so I don't trust myself to make it more obvious without outright spelling it out.

Your evidence is quite compelling until you realize it is a sample size of 1.

[BuJaber]

Sorry I don't have more games where I get an N1 guilty, crumb it, then get day-shot.
It's not exactly a common thing.

Don't you wish it were though?

Because I only read your posts here and the post you linked to. And I'm already amused.

It sounds hilarious.

Compared to your story though what happened in overkill 1 was lame. I crumbed my role. Town decided to mass claim before my crumb ever became relevant. We won before town needed to confirm my role. Most people seemed to believe it anyway so I didn't need to be all like "and this was my crumb right here".

[BuJaber]

So, there are 26 of us. Game started with 22 of us confirming our roles. Now everyone confirmed their role, but only 22 have commented in this thread. I'm almost sure the four players who confirmed last, meaning that the game started before they confirmed their roles, were Wisdom, BuJaber, BrightEyedFish and DrewVa. That means that DrewVa saw that the game already started, but didn't come to say hi. That's rude.

VOTE: DrewVa

It could just be that he saw how many pages there were and incorrectly assumed some heavy posting and didn't have time to read but had he actually entered the thread he would have seen it's mostly one word posts by RCE.

[BuJaber]

That reminds me.. RCE you never explained why cheeky being townie is interesting to you?

[BuJaber]

So, there are 26 of us. Game started with 22 of us confirming our roles. Now everyone confirmed their role, but only 22 have commented in this thread. I'm almost sure the four players who confirmed last, meaning that the game started before they confirmed their roles, were Wisdom, BuJaber, BrightEyedFish and DrewVa. That means that DrewVa saw that the game already started, but didn't come to say hi. That's rude.

VOTE: DrewVa

It could just be that he saw how many pages there were and incorrectly assumed some heavy posting and didn't have time to read but had he actually entered the thread he would have seen it's mostly one word posts by RCE.

Yeah, and it could be that they were attacked by a gorilla right after they confirmed they role. What's your point

Wait for the explanation then judge it.

[BuJaber]

Okay fine that does seem better than mine. Has the potential to speed up the response.

VOTE: DrewVa

[BuJaber]

@RR - can you tell me what each potential reaction to you "changing things up" would mean? I fail to see the benefit.

It sounds like you're creating an agenda for yourself without clear motive, which by default is nefarious.

For example, just from my experience with y'all in the last game, I am noticing a lot of unnecessary back and forth between your two heads in-thread, when I know that y'all usually converse -quite heavily- on discord. I didn't read your PT but I did scroll through it out of curiosity at how 2 halves of a hydra communicate.

What does someone noticing a change in your behavior tell you about them?

[BuJaber]

So no, you were not acting in RVS with that vote, and it *will* be considered as a significant vote where you failed to provide sufficient reasoning, and apparently lied about your experience with the meta of our slots.

-Cerb

I was still in RVS because I had just started reading the thread. I can't help it you got a 7 hour head start on me and used up your RVS mentality before I had a chance to even dip my toes in.
Also, when did I lie about meta? I said you voted heb

as

scum because it was the first post that came across as scummy to me. I never mentioned anything about meta. I don't where you pulled that from.

Your wording... "you did x as scum" implies that you saw them do x previously in a game where they were scum.

[BuJaber]

I can see that RCE. Interesting.

Though I'm pretty sure RR read it like I did, and my intention was to get that across to BEF. He sounded believable to me but RR's point made more logical sense. Figured if they understood each other better the argument would be more fruitful.

Pedit - RR you misunderstood. I was referring to this little back and forth you just had here, which was not something you did in overkill 1. It was me giving an example of someone noticing a behavior and commenting on it.

[BuJaber]

@Profii - I can't believe we've only played 1 game together but it explains why I don't remember you. That game was a bit of shitfest and was so long ago and one of my first on MS.

Hope we can read each other better this game

[BuJaber]

So it looks like everyone is still joke posting

Does scum joke post more or less than town?

Usually, I think it’s NAI. This game is kill heavy, so I feel like scum is definitely staying under the radar moreso than not. It’s a 26 player game, idk how many scum fits into that. 6?

6 is too small for single faction imo. And if it's multiball like the last overkill then it'll be even more.

DrippingGoofball is a pretty epic name.

what if there's no SK in this overkill? Would be a great A50 joke.

[BuJaber]

Chickadee Chick-a-day Chick-fil-a .. don't engage the crazy person

Pedit who's Biff?

[BuJaber]

@RC: You're actually serious! The crazy comment was because I thought you were joking.
Think that's a weak case... 152 is basically setup spec which tends to be NAI. I agree it isn't helpful but town do it.. and do it a lot from what I've seen.
139.. I won't claim I know wisdom very well but from my experience he's a bit scummy in general as town.. makes sense coming from him.

I don't think you actually believe this is a case people will be interested in so you're either wasting time or not actually scumhunting.

VOTE: RCEnigma

[BuJaber]

Lost all my quotes .. weird I remember auto logout taking longer.

Nancy that reaction was super weird. Why are you getting this upset? Why are you trying to guilt people into townreading you? And I think it was directed at gamma where you basically said you either think I'm town or you're scum or something somewhat threatening like that
Unwarranted and does make me feel you're trying to play to your alleged town meta more than it's just a natural response.

RCE - what did wisdom say that changed your mind?

And what's with all the BoP on wisdom.. I remember him being more of a late game player. He posts lots of jokes and one word posts and naked reads/votes without explanation in d1. Wisdom am I misremembering?


Creature is in this game? Wut ..just noticed. Hi creature what do you think of wisdom this game? Gamma? RR?
Anybody else you want to talk about..


Amz can you state a reason or reasons for your vote?

Whoever voted cheeky is on to something. I'd expect more posts by now.

Pedit - no I get paranoid by buddies during the game. I'm all for it after.

[BuJaber]

You should buddy the other pokemon that would be entertaining

[BuJaber]

We still in RVS?

How about you vote for a wagon and we'll see

[BuJaber]

We still in RVS?

How about you vote for a wagon and we'll see

d'awww

You know, the nice thing about never playing more than one game at a time is that I don't forget what's going on in regards to me or other things I've been keeping tabs on. I'll almost assuredly never vote in this game until I am absolutely sure no voting shenanigans are afoot, and since I'm pretty well useless to the point of nearly being a Tree Stump, I'll likely be around a while. Problem is, the game gets hard to get invested in when you can't vote, so I found myself glazing over the last 3 pages or so and not really giving a fuck.

I'm mostly just curious how many "serious" votes there are out there, and how many are just sheeps and creeps.

You asked an unnecessary question you should know the answer to. If you are town you can still contribute without voting. I was sympathetic to you getting the role, but you're going to have to pull your weight like the rest. Otherwise you look like 3rd party only interested in staying alive.

Sorry guys still busy atm will contribute later. BuJaber is there a reason you keep shading me without voting?

"Keep shading you" sounds worse than the reality. So it's you who's shading me... The first time I mentioned you it had nothing to do with your play. The guy who voted RR over you had seemingly more reasons in his post to suspect you than RR yet he voted RR, it was bad and needed addressing. The second time yeah it's worrying that you're not posting much this game given your usual tendency. However I'd rather keep my vote on RCE. I have more reasons to suspect him than you.

[BuJaber]

Bujaber - FL made a good point about grabbing attention. The back and forth with Nancy was exactly that, Don't think Wisdom has anything to gain from the exchange. The pressure on Nancy is nice and Wisdom may not have set it in motion but he did jumpstart it. Sad FL called Nancy town so early.

He also shut Varsoon down which was pretty sweet.

For the record this is your best post so far

[BuJaber]

The amount of people SK-reading people is staggering.

Why do you care? Without any scum flips anybody scummy is scum. Only when groupscum flips you can then say something like "This guy is scummy but because of reason x he is not groupscum with flipped scum, he might be scum of a different faction or SK"

Even if you are right about someone being SK you are helping scum by pointing out 3p. You shouldn't care about SK at this stage. Scumhunt.

I can give you at least two examples where scum v SK ended up helping town that I witnessed myself. I'm sure most of you have examples also.

@Cerb - how shy is amz? At what point should we consider inactivity to be AI?.

[BuJaber]

Ehhhh

Nancy using meta to vote someone is consistent with someone who thinks they deserve to be townread based on meta.

[BuJaber]

Ehhhh

Nancy using meta to vote someone is consistent with someone who thinks they deserve to be townread based on meta.

Who GAF about your read on me. What do you think of my case on Majiffy? Gawd!

It's important for me to sort you because your case can come from either alignment.

As scum it's the sort of case that makes you look busy (reading ISO's of old games) while not actually engaging active people discussing ongoing cases/wagons. It's picking an easy target way too early in the game because nobody can say you're wrong.

As town meta is a big part of what people look for... especially in d1 when many people feel lost.

Either way it's basically a combination of a meta read of 3 posts and activity read which are both things that are mostly NAI. People evolve and people get busy. If you're right it's just luck tbh. I honestly have no reason to say you're wrong nor do I have any reason to agree with you. I can only comment on how strong a case it is and I just did.

[BuJaber]

Okay nm but if his posting doesn’t change, I would argue that it’s a damned good case but as I said, we’ll see.

I wouod expect nothing less. Your case would become stronger if it becomes a pattern.

[BuJaber]

@RR and anyone else who thinks they know:

What is your scum range? How would you characterize the difference between your town meta and scum meta?

It occurs to me that for someone like you (someone whose posts are kinda emotionless) the line becomes rather blurry.

But tails here claims you're already out of your scum range.

[BuJaber]

BuJabers, I can't remember if I said it when I was chatting to him earlier but I always read him wrong, here is what I have in my notes verbatim:

"going against the grain, but that's what he does aerassdfgs[dogpksjdklfs"

Dog

I found the hidden message.


Profii - I have only played 2 large games.

Overkill 1 - some scum lurked pretty hard. Some tried hard to post and be noticed.

Civ (6 I think) - from what I recall most scum apart from creature were pretty active.

[BuJaber]

5 page challenge (it's all you need to find at least 1 scum):

Read pages 1 to 5 and tell me who scum is.

[BuJaber]

@Varsoon - that was his best post up to that point. If it's garbage it's less garbage than the previous posts. His reasoning regarding nancy v Wisdom I quite liked. I wasn't commenting on the shut you down thing wasn't really concerned with that as y'all have been shitposting on each other plenty in the first few pages.. RCE's biased

And it sounds like you could easily be fooled if you're buying "leather" jackets at the flea market and you not being able to follow RCE's post there and confusing yourself. I don't trust your ability to read people here.

I still need to hear back from RR and creature and wisdom but so far my interactions turned my scumlean of nancy to a townlean and profii I'm townreading for being genuinenly concerned with not being able to sort some people but still not shying away from talking about these same people when questioned.

[BuJaber]

I rolled scum.

You heard him.

God this page 1 scum theater has been great
I'm really glad I rolled with you guys as my team
Like what are the chances amirite

We signed up for murder. It was promised.

I mean we could just like randomly quicklynch someone, get all that murder happening asap?

One sec, lemme go to a random number generator and see who we're gonna lynch today.

Came up with 21(naturally I removed myself, and I'm in the list prior to that point, so that's actually 22), so RIP hebichan.

I <3 you, you're adorable, but RNGesus, who is superior in scumhunting skill to this playerlist, has determined you should die.

VOTE: hebichan

-Cerb

I ROLLED TOWN GUYS.

VOTE: JIFFY.

Can I not be the day one lynch again? Please. I want to play a game one of these months.

VOTE: RCE

VOTE: Hebichan

Hey punks, who got Rocky?

This was my exact thought upon reading my role pm, and not getting Rocky.

But I don't like this question.

Hey awesome people!

Have you read the first few pages of this game and are now thinking "Oh man so many posts! Why did I sign up to this?"
Are you already feeling disillusioned from the usual RVS process of people doing ridiculous claim things and voting people so that they look like they're SERIOUS BUSINESS when really they have no idea what they're doing either?
Or are you in fact just really super duper uber excited and are trying to hold yourself back from posting lots but kind of failing?

Well guess what? That's right! It's

Regfan

DV here and I'm going to make everything amazing!

Spoiler:

I like to think that here Sylvester Stallone is actually parodying the ridiculousness (and sexistness) of telling someone to "man up".

Hmm maybe I'm over thinking it.

Yeah I'm probably over thinking it.

Just kidding!

Spoiler:

But you know what? That's okay! Because Regfan probably does know what he's doing and he'll be here to post uhhh.... at some point!

--

Anyway, I've read the game up until now and honestly there's not really anything that jumps out at me. I'll probably read over things again in an hour or two and express some sort of opinion because I probably should.

-DV (obviously)

Like 2 -3 scum above
I included Fortian because on reading it a 2nd time it sounds overly enthusiastic - like how scum fake being carefree and excited.

Getting A50 vibes from Flavor's entrance.. trying to garner favor with the mod?

Also alchemist21's ISO is rather empty even though he's seemingly keeping up.



Pedit - yeah because you switched your vote from RC to me while still seemingly scumreading RC yet you are joining a fresh wagon because me saying that was RC's best post is apparently indicative of me being scum with him? And you want to lynch me first to prove he's scum or something? How does that make sense?

[BuJaber]

RCE v Varsoon are never buddies here

[BuJaber]

And you sound like you're lining up mislynches.

What was bad about his post? Don't you feel it showed actual reasoning compared to his previous posts where he was just spamming nothingness or naked unexplained reads? I don't think it makes him town but I'm encouraging more posts like that because they give much more insight into who he is and how he's approaching the game.

[BuJaber]

I like how dripping goofball's naked vote on me was one of the justifications to join my wagon. I can see the path you're taking in your mafia career. Baa baa

[BuJaber]

@RR - I'm more of a read/gut player. I get carried away trying to solve who's who. Setup spec tends to be distracting. I usually only participate in the general numbers spec but stuff like which role makes sense in this game etc I feel is a bit of a waste of time for me. Maybe a general comment on overall balance between flipped roles and claims.

In overkill 1 we started to gel more after our initial disagreement/mutual scumread because the optimal lynches became pretty obvious. I was a little surprised that town wasn't even more in sync than we actually were.

Also massclaiming tends to force the town into a more systematic approach because of provable night actions and mechanical clears and all that jazz

[BuJaber]

@nancy - I'm not pro-massclaim.. I was talking to RR specifically about overkill 1 that's all. I agree with varsoon regarding this. I'd love to play in a mountainous also.

[BuJaber]

I think pint is town

I expect more activity from creature, thor, RR, CT.

Malakitty last game you didn't post much because your role was unfun and hard to win with...will you post here?

[BuJaber]

I think pint is town

I expect more activity from creature, thor, RR, CT.

Malakitty last game you didn't post much because your role was unfun and hard to win with...will you post here?

Your vote is on RCE right now. Do you think that's the best option to place it right now, or do you have someone else you would want to push a little more?

Maybe.. it's not gaining much traction, but I've had good reason to vote for him and I don't think varsoon v him is TvT. I have some sections/ISOs I want to reread after work and then I'll decide.

I don't think I'll be voting profii though. I think you raise a valid concern but so far I haven't gotten the vibe that he's posting just to look busy. He feels pretty genuine to me. I'm skeptical that scum!profii would blatantly draw attention to the fact that he's got no real thoughts on a few players.


Pedit that's why that entry was hilarious

[BuJaber]

I expect more activity from creature,

thor, RR

, CT.

Both Thor and RR have posted every day. Was there more you were expecting there? Were you expecting uber posting?

They both took a commanding role in overkill 1.
Granted Thor was SK so perhaps not the best comparison but I assume he was playing similar to how he would as town. I've never been SK just seems like the right way to play it.

[BuJaber]

At the very least your scumhunting would be more real than groupscum.

[BuJaber]

@Tails: It was mainly an exercise for me to pick out a few odd posts from the early game and ISO their owners. Haven't had the chance yet. I was also interesting in hearing thoughts on the early game from others to compare and contrast.

@RR: I think it may be my perception of activity in this game being so much bigger in terms of player count, that each player's individual posts get lost. Just felt that you and thor were less memorable than overkill 1 and I attributed that to low activity.

Sorry yesterday I was so tired didn't do much. Will be reading throughout the day today.

[BuJaber]

What spurred the DGB votes?
From the last point I read she was just one of several lurkers. Why the wagon on her specifically.

[BuJaber]

Bujaber, why are you coming across more aggressive in this game?

I wasn't received very well in overkill 1.

I don't think people should let playstyle affect their reads but they do anyway. If my usual playstyle comes across as unsure and scummy, I'll try to find a new style.

[BuJaber]

Haven't finished reading but so far varsoon and majiffy really don't seem like they're reading very well.

Varsoon keeps mistaking posts adressed to othrs as adressed to him, like when I called majiffy a sheep.

And majiffy because nobody who read my interactions with RCE coild possibly think my vote was a simple wagon hop. Doesn't seem like he's actually reading just wanted an easy target and picked on the latest vote on RCE at the time. I think he's scum, possibly protecting his partner. VOTE: majiffy

RR has talked a lot more than I remember so I'm sorry about the activity comment.. your case on hebichan is interesting. I'll look into it further when it's time for hebi's ISO read but it's important to note that chick kinda defended her and there might be a connection there.

[BuJaber]

I agree creature's posting can get annoying but it doesn't make him scum.

@RR - how many times have you played with creature? Because he 1v1s quite a bit. At least in all his recent towngames I was also in.

[BuJaber]

Mala's ISO is pretty empty, but hebichan is even worse. There's barely any analysis here. Even when posting a case she seems to give herself an out by offering an argument for why they could be wrong. Seems to use meta reads but a lot of her reasons why something is scummy is because she herself has done it as scum which is fine but like depends on the person not everyone thinks in a similar way. Pushed creature for being away, then pushed creature for posting a lot really starting to feel like she has picked creature only to lynch.

[BuJaber]

Chickadee also has barely posted any real opinions. Mainly neutral things and facts and explaining her absences and stating what she's willing to read and what she isn't. The only person she talked about with any depth is creature and even that's basically rehashing facts known to those that played with him.

[BuJaber]

And reading his ISO I'm not so sure RCE is scum anymore but will revisit if majiffy flips scum.

So of the people I wanted to focus on in post 626..

RR, profii - probably town
RCE, Mala, Varsoon - scumlean
Majiffy, hebichan, chickadee - scum

[BuJaber]

And reading his ISO I'm not so sure RCE is scum anymore but will revisit if majiffy flips scum.

So of the people I wanted to focus on in post 626..

RR, profii - probably town
RCE, Mala, Varsoon - scumlean
Majiffy, hebichan, chickadee - scum

Forgot fortian - scumlean.. short posts I didn't like.. didn't read the walls, hated the entrance as I've stated previously.

[BuJaber]

Actually if anybody has a town or scum case in wisdom I'd like the key points on it.

I only remember playing 3 games with him and though I've had some success in reading him before I feel it's too early to tell here.

Tone seems townie but then there's the misquoting posts he claims he hasn't read fully which is very odd.

[BuJaber]

@RCE:

Dude is now on wisdom, who I am pretty sure is town

that buddying tho

Looks like Wisdom/Varsoon buddies.

Everyone has a buddy yet? If you don’t have a buddy raise your hand.

There should be 13 pairs. Let’s lynch within the pair that gels the least.

Hebichan/Flavor are gelling the most for the Fun Fact I posted about the Snivy thing a few pages back.

We also both live on the west coast.


Not sure I like Profii's response there. I've used the same line as scum a lot. Then again, I have genuinely lost my train of thought as town.

I just don't like the strongman attitude from tails here. Could be in his range, I guess. But I've seen a lot of things like "earned the right to live today" come from scum trying to position themselves as strong town voices.

I feel a bit bad now because I looked at my past games and I don't think I've played with scum!wisdom looking back...

At the same time this still feels a bit off from wisdom's town voice, but I'm not as certain now.

Tone seems townie but then there's the misquoting posts he claims he hasn't read fully which is very odd.

what
it sounds like you didnt understand anything about whats happened

How so?

RR accused you of misrepresenting his post regarding creature. You claimed it was because you didn't read the whole post and misunderstood the part you did read.

[BuJaber]

It's hard to believe

[BuJaber]

And reading his ISO I'm not so sure RCE is scum anymore but will revisit if majiffy flips scum.

So of the people I wanted to focus on in post 626..

RR, profii - probably town
RCE, Mala, Varsoon - scumlean
Majiffy, hebichan, chickadee - scum

Forgot fortian - scumlean.. short posts I didn't like.. didn't read the walls, hated the entrance as I've stated previously.

Ooooo! I’m excited now.

Our “walls” aren’t very long and not very many. If you think we might be scum, wouldn’t it make sense to read them to see if any further scumminess lies within?

Will read, just didn't read at the time and since I found some scummy slots I've gotten what I needed. I'm not going to try to sort 26 people I'm focusing on small groups and trying to react to things in real time when possible.

@wisdom - same reason why anyone would lie. You made a mistake, realized it, came up with an explanation. It's weird to me because there's no reason for you to have done that intentionally as either alignment, but a mistake like that is more likely to scum because they tend to skim more.
If you don't want it discussed why ask me about it? My main point in that post was that I doubt anyone actually has a solid read on you at this point in time not about my non-read on you.

@pint - what are you doing? I don't get it. You want chick or majiffy?

[BuJaber]

Explain the vote cheeky

[BuJaber]

@hebichan - it seemed to me like you knew creature that's why you voted him when he was absent. If you knew him you would know that he posts these spammy one liners a lot as town. So yes it's wrong, and it inflates the thread and you personally don't like it, and he shouldn't do it this much but how does it make him scum.

Your votes before and after seem contradictory to me for anyone that knows. And even if you don't know him seem kinda biased against him

[BuJaber]

I'm town. Od the people voting me wich ones of you are idiots and which ones of you are scum?

Read your predecessor's posts and tell me I'm wrong.

[BuJaber]

And reading his ISO I'm not so sure RCE is scum anymore but will revisit if majiffy flips scum.

So of the people I wanted to focus on in post 626..

RR, profii - probably town
RCE, Mala, Varsoon - scumlean
Majiffy, hebichan, chickadee - scum

[BuJaber]

Pint is town and nancy from what I saw in overkill 1 cannot keep this AtE and confidence up this long as scum (I assume), so probably town also.

Haven'y sorted the rest.

[BuJaber]

How much of this game have you read so far?

not a whole lot.

Nero, Id be keen to talk with you about Chick and why you think the wagon is bad.

-DV

If I understand she's being wagoned for being an opinionless void and making excuses for not being here and that just seems like pretty much par for the course with Chick. I mean, Its entirely possible that she does that as scum too and I'm not saying that Chick is a super strong town read that should never be lynched but I'm going to need more than "she's a worthless lurksack"

No, she’s getting mostly voted for her bad push on Creature.

Don't discount the opinionless void thing.
I'll trust Nero to know her better than I but I'm pretty sure she'd have a strong opinion or two by now. She can be very very stubborn as town. And there's a difference between being a lurksack with a vested interest in solving the game and a lurksack who's doing nothing.

[BuJaber]

What does that have to do with Chick?

Chick is 3rd scummiest in my list, after your slot and hebichan's.

[BuJaber]

No no what I said was I trust you to know her more, because I've not interacted with her much in the past, but I disagree with your analysis of her activity this game, so your meta agreement, true or false, does not apply here.

You voting for cheeky is good means you're either willing to work with me or you want to buddy me, which is good in the short term.

Pedit - oh what do we have here...

[BuJaber]

Ironically enough he's making me want to unvote you though. Don't like the emotional manipulation, even if its unintentional.

[BuJaber]

oh fuck you bu

i really hope you rolled scum here

replace out

Sorry but this was the easiest way to read you.

I'm pretty sure this is town!wisdom.

[BuJaber]

Don't make shit personal people.. only makes it shittier for you. It would suck if you couldn't play games you wanted just because you don't like one of the players.

[BuJaber]

Pride
Don't see him doing it as scum.
You 'win' if he's scum.

[BuJaber]

Lol

[BuJaber]

Where exactly was the bullying.. nero showing up?

This is below you wisdom. You rep out, stay out.

[BuJaber]

Ah wait the no skill thing sorry..

[BuJaber]

I still stand by my 2nd line.

[BuJaber]

Dave where you at with regards to the current wagons?

[BuJaber]

Why are you concerned with my vote in particular?

You didn't accompany it with a reason.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: BEF
Not even trying to hide being scum

[BuJaber]

Plus I looked back and now that I've sorted RR, RCE, and hebichan, your ISO looks way worse from my POV. We're not syncing up at all except on nero's slot, but instead of offering an alternative/additional reason for voting him you say I don't know. You can't even answer the easier question that Gamma asked.

[BuJaber]

What I find interesting about Jaber is how he switched his vote from majiffy/Nero to me. So either he know has a sudden TR on Nero or he could be protecting him...

I feel way more confident with a vote on Jaber instead of my vote on Nero.

VOTE: BuJaber

You outscummed him

[BuJaber]

@BEF - because you seem unwilling to share reasons for your actions/stances, because the exchange with nero was very bad, because you voted him for no reason.

[BuJaber]

@Tails - regards to DrewVa, personally it was the AtE that kinda softened my view of her and the consistency of her putting too much stock into meta with how she's reading players and expecting to be read. From seeing her play as an SK in overkill 1 she felt kinda awkward and shy at times so I don't think she could have kept up her emotional outbursts at wisdom and a few others for as long as she did.



Y'all don't have to like my scumhunting approach. You know it works for me. And if you don't know me just skim a few games. It's a bs wagon kept alive solely on varsoon's deathtunnel. And I don't get the feeling varsoon is even reading the game.

[BuJaber]

Cheeky always votes me like 15 times throughout the game so that's neither here nor there. DGB has kept their thoughts close to the chest. The rest feel like sheepy votes.

[BuJaber]

Like how can I be a counterwagon to Chick if nobody knew Chick was going to be wagoned? There's a reason why counterwagons have to come after the wagon they're countering. Otherwise what are you countering?

[BuJaber]

that wasnt the intent but sure thanks

What IS your intent?

You know that all the self-deprecating comments only tell us that you know you're being useless? which makes it even worse.

[BuJaber]

I reread the first 5 pages. I picked out posts I didn't like. Then I ISO'd the owners of those posts to see what they've done since then and summarized the case on each of them that I found scummy.

[BuJaber]

^ @FL

[BuJaber]

That post didn't sound like you were sure and your vote was naked. And I already suspect your slot

[BuJaber]

Our history doesn't give much confidence in you townreading me but by posting more might push you back to the town side of null on me.

[BuJaber]

I was thinking that mafia might try to look like they're doing something instead of straight up not engaging in any conversation. Like if groupscum he would confine himself to never defend a buddy or something like that because it will look really suspicious if he suddenly came in and defended someone for example.

[BuJaber]

Plus it's an odd claim to make as scum.. he'd never be able to push wagons

[BuJaber]

Maybe. But just from this game alone you can see how players tend to focus on votes and wagons more than anything else. He'd have to be quite aggressive to be noticed.

[BuJaber]

I reread the first 5 pages. I picked out posts I didn't like. Then I ISO'd the owners of those posts to see what they've done since then and summarized the case on each of them that I found scummy.

You think that scum are going to have obvious posts you wouldn’t like in the first 5 pages of a 26 player game?

Not a shade, serious question.

I’m trying to actively reemmerce myself into the game.

I think people tend to let their guard down in RVS and when there's little content. Either way I do this to help me choose some people to focus on. Trying to sort 25 people at the same time is crazy.

[BuJaber]

BuJaber seems too calm about the growing wagon on him. I like RCE's recent posting. I'm feeling let down by RR though I could be misremembering when/why they started getting more active in the last game.

Is his reaction here very different than in Overkill 1? One thing I have noticed, is very blatant difference in tone from that game. Some his reads are really questionable - especially you and Fortian. I don’t remember him having such offreads in that game.

What makes you so sure I'm wrong?

You keep referring to overkill 1.. don't you notice any difference in Cheeky's play here compared to there?

The votes on me come from either suspected slots or people that don't know me. I don't know why people are taking it seriously. And @Varsoon you haven't answered how I can be a counterwagon to a wagon that came after mine.

[BuJaber]

She was posting a WHOOOOLE lot more and commenting on everything and reacting to VC changes and claims.

Here her activity level is average.

Fortian you may not see what I see.. it's my first time playing with him and my case isn't solid, mainly gut and his posts feeling off to me, but no way is he 'obvtown'.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Clemency chick slot was really bad. Completely devoid of chick's townie passion/stubborness. I gave her a few days to recover from her sickness and maybe show this side of her but she repped out.

Y'all are happy letting BEF just coast around with his reasonless reads and votes but I'm going back to him day 2.

[BuJaber]

If you hopefully don't lynch me

[BuJaber]

I also think Cheeky is manufacturing her reads.

At least profii was honest about his list being mostly null.

@DGB - please teach me how to demand this much respect and BoD from 25 players with less than 10 posts.
I always thought the first goal of a mafia player is to improve their reads but what good are reads from a dead person?

[BuJaber]

I don't think creature is one to be bullied into lurkiness by the negative comments regarding his posting so yes it's worrying that he hasn't been around much since.

[BuJaber]

But his vote was naked, FL. Apparently naked votes rule all with this playerlist. You have an inherent disadvantage

[BuJaber]

Siri, add Tails to my lynch list.

Why?

[BuJaber]

Siri, add Tails to my lynch list.

Why?

For strike 2.

Why don't you want to say it?

[BuJaber]

Nero made that multi vote post after making a comment that too many people were either naked voting or ok with it. Suspecting it isn’t a read list...

Probably isn’t since he has 13/26 slots listed.

Unrelated, who is Toogaloo and why haven’t they ever placed a vote?

He claimed that he can only hammer or he'd be modkilled.

[BuJaber]

I am reporting that I have a negative utility to town.
I can ONLY hammer, and if I place a vote that isn't the hammer, I will be modkilled.

---
I will openly claim now as well. I am

THE

Sylvester Stallone. I am not one of his characters he's played, but the actual person as my role. As the actual person, I must have final say in the lynch," i.e. I can only hammer. Don't ask why the mod chose to make my role and flavor as it is, I don't know. Don't ask me to vote if it's not the hammer, it won't happen.

[BuJaber]

How is activity AI Nero? Also I've posted more than at least 50% of this game. I literally said I was VLAish for the first week in signups before BuJaber kept harping on about my lack of activity and I'm still pretty busy but keeping up when I can.

The only other thing you scumread me for is "going with the flow" which I've pointed out is founded on your lack of info at that point. Unlike Tails I don’t think you're scum because I expect you to make these erm interesting uninformed pushes plus I'm not going to pin cheating on Majiffy's rep out.

If you're busy I'm sorry. But people like nancy were meta reading you based on activity and that made no sense to me. I'm calling out shitty reasons.

[BuJaber]

Amuse me nancy, since a huge portion of your posts have the words "based on meta".

How do you go about determining someone's meta? Your methodology?

[BuJaber]

Amuse me nancy, since a huge portion of your posts have the words "based on meta".

How do you go about determining someone's meta? Your methodology?

I either base it on play - actual experience I’ve had playing with them or from meta checks. I did one on a recent scumgame of yours and I didn’t find any connection to it - either with this game or Overkill 1.

It obviously isn’t foolproof, because it’s seems pretty likely that I was wrong about Majiffy, so I use it mostly, to supplement my reads, not as a replacement for them. My most accurate meta reads are based on actual games I’ve had with the designated player. Those types of checks tend to bet the most reliable.

This doesn't answer my questions. To be able to take your cases seriously I need to know the way you analyze the different games to determine someone's meta. What kind of things do you look for to compare and contrast and why.

It doesn't have to be an essay just give me an idea of what you do. You seem to come to your meta conclusions really quickly and I'm sort of skeptical that you're approach actually yields any useful result.

And can we stop with the tails alt discussion? It's a waste of time, and it's really really easy to know who his main is and he explicitly states he plays differently on this alt. (Not that I've ever played with his main.. these are just his words)

[BuJaber]

People scumreading DrewVa do you have scum meta of Nancy being aggressive and all up in people's business? Because it feels like she took a confidence booster shot between overkill 1 and 2.

I know her meta arguments are pretty weak and her perspective seems severely biased I just don't see it being scummy for her.

[BuJaber]

Wisdom you got any new thoughts since you not-quite-repped-out?

[BuJaber]

I agree that Tails is probably town here.

[BuJaber]

Gamma I would have switched to DGB if I thought there was enough time to lynch that slot but it seems futile. Why don't you like the clem wagon?

[BuJaber]

Fine ... I'l ask specific questions.

What is LHF?
Have you played with Clemency before?
How would you expect someone to play in his position?

[BuJaber]

3rd question is hypothetical.. how would you expect a rep-in to a scum slot act in the situation Clemency finds himself in? Like why can't he be defeated scum?

[BuJaber]

Gamma I would have switched to DGB if I thought there was enough time to lynch that slot but it seems futile. Why don't you like the clem wagon?

What changed from the time DGB was one of the leading wagons to now? There was absolutely a chance to wagon DGB and it fell apart pretty quickly.

She was vaguely scummy before, but she continued not to post solidifying the read. And I didn't really sense that a lot of people were willing to vote her at any point during the game. Did you notice a time in which there was?

People scumreading DrewVa do you have scum meta of Nancy being aggressive and all up in people's business? Because it feels like she took a confidence booster shot between overkill 1 and 2.

I know her meta arguments are pretty weak and her perspective seems severely biased I just don't see it being scummy for her.

Are you claiming scum Nancy is never aggressive/town Nancy is aggressive?

Neither. I'm asking for confirmation that she can have this much range in her confidence or an explanation for her change in approach from overkill 1. My impression was that it's more than a playstyle thing it's a personality thing which is much harder to change from game to game.

[BuJaber]

My impression was that it's more than a playstyle thing it's a personality thing which is much harder to change from game to game.

If it's a playstyle thing that you aren't suggesting is more likely to come from town her or scum her what's the point of questioning it?
You're losing me here.

Why is this difficult to understand?

Nancy was sort of awkward and lurky in overkill 1 (and flipped scum).
Here she's not.

If it was because of her personality then she can't just change on a whim, something major must be different for her to be completly comfortable here, hence likely town.

If it was because of playstyle, then she had chosen to be reserved and on the sidelines in overkill 1. It is very possible in this case that if she rolled scum again she may try a different tactic.

[BuJaber]

He did say that.
I asked him if he saw it as town or scum sided for you.
He claimed neither.
So my issue is - why am I wasting time reading him investigating a question that he doesn't think will tell him your alignment.

This wasn't clear at all.
It is obvious I'm townreading her because I've been saying it. But I asked for the scum!cases on her because if I'm wrong about it being her personality then her confidence becomes NAI.

[BuJaber]

Is it just me or are BuJaber's votes missing from the VCs?

Are you on mobile?
You can't see it on mobile you have to quote the ISO and read the names within the table code.

[BuJaber]

So you're saying it's a town read unless your read is wrong.
I've seen her confident as both alignments - what does that do to your read?

If I can trust you on this then she becomes a scumread

[BuJaber]

Nancy share with me the game you were with Thor and you were scum.

I want to see what he thinks confidence looks like.

[BuJaber]

I think people are underestimating DGB's strategy.

Fortian says she can't endgame but why not? Plenty of people have turned it around near the end.

I think if she is allowed to live she will either effort post a lot to make people rethink or help her team in other ways maybe as a PR.

I think her strategy is brilliant and the only reason why people don't out themselves more often in the early game is because it's scary as hell.

[BuJaber]

@Nancy - it is amazing that throughout the whole game and everytime I mentioned you favorably or mentioned other people you townread me. When I start to say that IF IF my analysis of your character is wrong, then I would be scumreading you you switch yiur read on me.


As for Thor I think my reads must be pretty good and he is intentionally being thick so I flip out and replace out in frustration (as I've done in the past when people misunderstand my arguments repeatedly) and then because nobody listens to dead/replaced slots usually, my reads will be forgotten and/or my slot would be lynched for a the rep out, because nobody remembers the game I repped out as frustrated town, only the one where I repped out as misunderstood scum.

[BuJaber]

@Pint - could you explain the associative between nero and clem/chick? Is is the clemency post where he calls him scumleanish or is there more?

[BuJaber]

I think we should vote either dgb or thor or nero depending on pint's case.

[BuJaber]

Mala - do you have any reads? I forgot you're in this

[BuJaber]

I think people are underestimating DGB's strategy.

Fortian says she can't endgame but why not? Plenty of people have turned it around near the end.

I think if she is allowed to live she will either effort post a lot to make people rethink or help her team in other ways maybe as a PR.

I think her strategy is brilliant and the only reason why people don't out themselves more often in the early game is because it's scary as hell.

nope

She has no reason to go for this "strategy" unprovoked at this point.
Shes not scum.

We'll see about that

[BuJaber]

If it isn't Buj then it's RCE.
RCE's been slimy all game.

Weren't you trying to associate us as partners earlier? What changed?

[BuJaber]

Bujaber - FL made a good point about grabbing attention. The back and forth with Nancy was exactly that, Don't think Wisdom has anything to gain from the exchange. The pressure on Nancy is nice and Wisdom may not have set it in motion but he did jumpstart it. Sad FL called Nancy town so early.

He also shut Varsoon down which was pretty sweet.

For the record this is your best post so far

I'm havin' a laugh because
1. RCE thinks Bujaber 'shut me down', somehow? When I go to sleep, is Bujaber tucking me in? When I leave my computer to get dinner, is that Bujaber making me hungry? Aw shit I got work now gotta go clock some time for Bujaber.

2. Bujaber is complicit in taking cred for this and saying RCE's turd of a post is their 'best post so far' which is hilarious because it's an information instead of analysis post and it's incredibly weak and if this constitutes RCE's best posting, I'm havin' a laugh


Still catching up but if Bujaber develops a townread on RCE from this, doesn't look great for either slot.

@Varsoon - referring to this post

[BuJaber]

No man only scum can change their reads were you not paying attention.

[BuJaber]

Creature why did you move off the Chick/Clem wagon to what pretty much accounts to a vanity wagon? You were on the wagon for quite some time then didn't commit to it.

[BuJaber]

If it isn't Buj then it's RCE.
RCE's been slimy all game.

Weren't you trying to associate us as partners earlier? What changed?

You're both scum. Doesn't mean you're partners.

If you believed that then why would my flip have anything to do with RCE?

[BuJaber]

I would think Clem would have been a little bit faster than 10 min. if that was the case.

I thought about that too but a real quick L-1 then quick hammer would be too obvious.
I understand this is all WIFOM stuff but I feel good.

Heb hasn't posted anything that gives him town cred IMO.
I think there is something here worthwhile here.

Yes hebichan is good lynch too. Was on my list day 1 and nothing happened to change that

[BuJaber]

Where did I say your flip would have anything to do with RCE.
The post I was responding to was postulating that you might be town.

And you responded with if it isn't Buj, it's RCE.

Explain what you mean then if that isn't some convulted associative

[BuJaber]

I was kinda leaning town for Gamma d1 coz he seemed like he wasn't putting much effort in like his most recent games... but I'm rethinking that now after reading Cheeky's case

Pedit - I don't get the conditional. Why does the RCE scumread become stronger upon my flip?


Pedit 2 - That's what was missing

[BuJaber]

I want to lynch DGB today. Worst case is she's a veng that's doing nothing while alive. Because even if she isn't scum like I suspect she hasn't done anything pro-town the whole game.
VOTE: DrippingGoofball .. epic name.. can't believe I haven't noticed you in a whole year that I've been here.

We should look at creature voters also. Especially after he posted. Now that he's playing d2 and chick/clem flipped scum I'm pretty confident he's town. Scum probably saw an opportunity for easy lynch.

[BuJaber]

@DGB - By saying "even if you're not scum like I suspect" I mean "even if you're not scum like I suspect you are [scum]". Obvious if you've been here reading my posts. But as long as you're advocating for more votes on you we're good you and I.

[BuJaber]

P.edit. I sense a possible trap with voting this wagon. If DGB isn’t jester, she could maybe be a vengeful or,supersaint possibly? Any rate, I don’t see why scum does this and I’m staying tf clear.

Another victim of DGB's mind control.

I kinda want to lynch scum, though.
But I think I get it.
VOTE: DGB

Or, ideally, third paRRty

Why is lynching 3Ps more ideal than lynching mafia? I just want to lynch scum.

Removes extra kills from the game, which are more likely to land on town than scum by ratio alone.
The only way we get anything out of having third party around is if we leash them, but SaGa frontier is proof of the dangers of doing that
Furthermore, I am fairly certain that if RR is third party, they're also bulletproof.

Well, in Overkill 1. I almost posted Undertale 1 . In Overkill 1, 3Ps weren’t problematic for town, only SKs, so I’m assuming you think RR are SK, because there are probably non-threatening 3Ps in this game, who we don’t need to bother with until we get closer to LYLO. That’s why some of Bujaber’s early posts are not sitting right with me, because of his strange SK defense. Lynching mafia isn’t more optimal than lynching SKs. Any NKs other than vigkills are bad for town.

Wrong. SK's pose a threat to mafia. Particularly in the early game where shooting is less accurate and both sides want to reduce shots that can hit them.

[BuJaber]

How am I a “victim of DGB’s mind control”? So, you’re saying that hypothetically, if we had a really strong SK read on someone, we should just ignore it and let them kill town, cuz that makes so much sense.

I was SK in Overkill 1 and I didn’t intentionally kill scum. We wrongly townread Thor. That’s right as SK, I only wanted to go after town early on but okay, SKs are great for town.

Did it ever occur to you, that SKs are also good for Mafia early on, because they increase the overall scum KP?

It’s posts like this one, why I don’t townread you here.

You are a victim because you don't see that she is scum here.

Yes in overkill 1 where we rounded up all the good little groupscum wolves and then lynched you when you were the only wolf cub left alive. So bad of town.

You can choose to hunt SKs first and scum later and see how well you do then report back to me after a reasonable number of games.

But if you want to know more about my reasoning consider this:
Can mafia win with SK alive? Yes
Can SKs win with mafia alive? No

Therefore game can end faster with a town loss if we hunt SKs and keep mafia alive. Hunting SKs is bad. Killing suspected SK before suspected scum is bad. The whole argument is about priority and there is a huge priority to lynching scum first ESPECIALLY that unless it is an open setup with a guaranteed SK we can't know for certain that there is one.

[BuJaber]

RR isn't the only one responsible.

Yes there you go. This seems to have been forgotten.

Lynch DGB people.

[BuJaber]

Why don't we just push on Heb some more? Does anyone really have a TR on him? I would say he is guilty...

No this might be the only thing we've agreed on this game but hebi is not a priority for me today.

[BuJaber]

Not sure if A50 would go "wow there are 3 antitown players dying, I'm gonna mysteriously save one of them"

Huh.. what is this in response to?

[BuJaber]

Okay, maybe you’re misunderstanding me then. I was never intending to suggest, we prioritize SK hunting over Mafia hunting. I think we just hunt scum in general. What I was saying is that, if we hypothetically were to have a strong consensus that X player is extremely likely to be an SK, we should still lynch them, because they’d be obvscum and you should 100% always lynch obvscum. Do you agree with that?

If there was no consensus over who else is scummy then yes. Like it becomes a judgement call where say we have someone who is 100% flipping SK, and we have someone else who is say 80% flipping scum, I'd probably still favor the 80%. But if people are really unsure and the risk of mislynching becomes higher then yeah you lynch the SK.

What do you make of Cheeky v Profii?

Personally I'm surprised Tails is saying Cheeky is being thick here. I felt that her point was pretty obvious. The way profii talked about the push on clem and gamma makes it sound like he's saying "other scum than me".

Profii's reaction to Cheeky makes me think it was just a misunderstanding, but I feel like cheeky's concern was valid and profii should have seen it and acknowledged it.

As for the push on Gamma that really depends on Gamma's flip. I haven't liked his contribution to this game much but the emotional posting recently is really working on me.

Pedit - hoooo let me read that

[BuJaber]

"all competition" is definitely multiball

This is the only part of the flavor in the flip that I feel is definitive and can be taken seriously.

Okay I think I was wrong on Fortian.. I don't think he's doing these big posts just for show. I need more time to sort RR though.. there's this sort of nonchalant lack of care tone in his posting this game I don't know what to make of. As someone who hasn't seen his scumgame I feel at a disadvantage but I also tend to believe that people say the truth as either alignment when they are talking about their self-meta. Or at least what they think is the truth. Just that scum may omit some things or exaggerate


@tails - yes profii's phrasing was awkward. It's not the mention of multiple scum teams that was a potential scumslip. It's his reference to !otherscum that sounded like he was scum.

[BuJaber]

I would appreciate succinctly phrased justifications for Gamma and Nero, preferably from the progenitors of the wagons.

I looked at Gamma, there are a couple of 'little' associations to Chickadee (like he says 'ew' to FL calling out Chick declaring her inactivity upfront - chainsawy ish) it's minor but it's there sort of thing.

So then, coming into this day, there seems to be a fair bit of momentum on Gamma and it also seems to have polarised opinions - obviously momentum is generated by people saying lets do it, some people have distinctly said nope and others, such as yourself have said hang on lets case it properly.


So I hadn't really considered gamma and felt I needed to look into it to decide myself what I thought...

I found the minor Chickadee links, which means he could potentially be a team mate - great this can be a scum lynch
People are piling on -

great this means other people are seeing Chick links to justify their scum read, but given the momentum, the !other-scum team are probably in there, so this might help us find them

Plus I give you a town cookie for coming in with a 'hang on guys' kinda perspective


so lots of info to be gleaned right now I think.

@profii/tails - the bolded is what gave me scum-hunting-scum vibes

[BuJaber]

1. CheekyTeeky pushing gamma.
2. CheekyTeeky calling my theory on this awkward

1. How does pushing gamma make me scum?
2. I called your whole post + tone awkward - your "theory" I called a scumslip. No idea how this makes me scum.

Though this post makes me think cheeky wasn't seeing what I saw and he had a problem with the whole argument.

[BuJaber]

Like, if creature is literally just talking to himself, and not actually completing any of his thoughts? :-/ I guess it could be a not-scum thing. *sigh*

-Cerb

I'm really suspicious of the fact that RR did not consider this very simple explanation and went in guns blazing and only "reconsidered" after creature explained. Not very rational actions. Very careless in fact. Especially that creature often talks to himself because he posts in his chopped up spam posting style.

Like how is posting in the wrong thread more likely than someone talking to himself? Are PTs not a different background in themes other than default mafblack?

Is creature really that threatening that people jumped on him for nonsensical reasons twice now? The d1 debacle that gave us a guilty on chick and now.

What's with the VT hate.. VT is the best role


Pedit - drewva just don't talk about the hammer thing anymore if you're not willing to listen to people correcting you.

[BuJaber]

yeh def hebi buddies in there

Varsoon and Aclem seem the worst to me. Both Cerb and Dave are just do do's.

Alch is a little too blatant

Varsoon I could see

I’m blatant because I’m sure that guilty is fake.

How would you know?

[BuJaber]

I'm not arguing her innocence, she's likely the lynch regardless of Befs input.

If I’m town in a game, where someone claims a guilty on me, unless I’m either a miller or there’s some bizarro mechanics to account for it, I lose it on the player pushing that fake guilty on me. What I don’t do is roll over and self-vote.

I have had this happen - someone claiming fake guilty on me and I promised to destroy their meta, if they didn’t retract it, which they did. That player obviously flipped scum.

OTOH, if I know I’m dead to rights, I don’t react that way and probably lolcat, if I think that guilty has any decent chance of being legit.

This is a good point, no need to wait for BEF to confirm the guilty.

VOTE: Hebichan

DGB gets to live another day with her WIFOM tactics

[BuJaber]

I think gamma is town and alonzo is scum. Farside was meh anyway. Alonzo is way better at towning it up than this and pushing gamma then unvoting among recent events is scummy.

[BuJaber]

Like what exactly was your case against gamma and what changed your mind? Because gamma hasn't done anything significantly differently between the vote and unvote.

[BuJaber]

Let him explain first

[BuJaber]

Let him explain first

@RCE

[BuJaber]

Creature read on RR right now?

[BuJaber]

Why are you guys lynching BEF if I flip town?

Waot did BEF claim a guilty on me?
Strange.

I'm not a miller so *shrug*

VOTE: hebichan

As long as there's a guilty on me, I suppose.

I think bef might be some kinda jester or something.

This is your natural reaction to a guilty? For real?
Not even a vote on BEF
Your first thought is "Jester"? Nothing to indicate jester in her d1 play why start suddenly?

[BuJaber]

Still no scumread on BEF...

What's scummy about Tails?

[BuJaber]

BEF gotta explain shit.

I think I like profii's interpretation the best so far. FL's vague explanations of his role are just confusing me at this point but if he is a PGO I guess wisdom's interpretation makes sense that mala was FL's kill.

[BuJaber]

Back to DGB that was going to be the lynch I think if it weren't for the fake guilty.

VOTE: DGB

[BuJaber]

Your resistance is annoying
Any other player on mafia scum would have died already if they were playing like DGB.

[BuJaber]

I offer you alchemist as an alternate.

Possibly one or two others depending on what they post today.

But basically all the cases and votes on creature this game were scummy. The only justified ones were the ones before he posted his first post.

Pedit - obviously has changed definitions lately?

[BuJaber]

Why is gamma on that list?

[BuJaber]

I'll be double checking that. Also many people expressed interest in DGB without voting. Not the same with gamma.

[BuJaber]

That's a lot of dedication to manufacture a claim, but the role seems OP the way BEF describes it.

Anyway if nobody wants to lynch DGB and BEF will survive his lynch and DGB dies by hammering BEF and DGB agrees to hammer I'll jump on this wagon.

Otherwise I don't think we should lynch BEF today because like what kind of scum fakes a guilty on someone barely even posting and was mislynchable. BEF would have to be suicidal.

[BuJaber]

Ok screw it. I didn’t want to claim like this but since people are still giving Benefit of the Doubt here...

I Tracked BEF N1 and saw he visited nobody. That’s how I knew the guilty was fake. I Tracked Cheeky N2, which you can see in that flavor hint, and she visited BEF which is why I speculated BEF having a PGO role.

He’s not backing down from his bullshit so I’m calling it out.

Still don't know why he would choose hebi to mislynch but this is the proof we need.
VOTE: BEF

Odd/Even loses much of its value with the max kill rule in place. It makes little sense.

[BuJaber]

DGB is scum using WIFOM. Stop giving her the jester out. Jester is a dumb role for dumb setups. It discourages scumhunting and gives scum an easy out.

The more I play mafia the more I realize that "too scummy to be scum" is rarely an actual thing and if someone is being "too scummy" you lynch them.

I'm surprised by alch's death. Why would scum shoot someone who like BEF had a false result? If it's a vig shot then the vig should have waited to hear him out.

VOTE: DGB

@profii - I've been thinking gamma's tone was townie throughout the game but you raise an interesting possibility. I'll look into his ISO, particularly around creature's wagon on d1 and the clem rep-in.

[BuJaber]

RR seems different here than overkill 1.
It's hard to explain but like you guys had...stronger opinions about who people were wanting to lynch and who they weren't. Here it feels like you're mainly going with the flow.

And you were very quick to give me your analysis of your self-meta but like all it was really saying was "good luck folks you can't catch us we play the same way as both alignments" which frankly the way you try to sound really objective in your arguments makes it pretty easy to immitate as either alignment.

And of course you haven't responded to fortian's case on you.

All in all if dgb is not the lynch today and the gamma case is not solidified we lynch RR.

[BuJaber]

I'm surprised by alch's death. Why would scum shoot someone who like BEF had a false result?

What false result?

He could not have known if his result was tainted or not.
Nobody could have predicted the flips coming today or another day. Therefore had alchemist not died and nero not been flipped, alchemist had no reasonable excuse for making us lynch a townie.

i still dislike gamma thor and amzela
I think theres at least one scum in rr/dave based on how cheeky put it
I dont like bu's obsession with dgb but I don't like dgb either
I dont like that fl didnt shoot someone scummy

bleh

I agree with not liking gamma, thor or amzela.

I think dave/rr are probably both town though.

I suspected one of you vs RR is scum. I thought RR was sketchy for not responding to you but now holy moly your 180 makes no sense at all.

SvS is back on the table you just outed your partner buddy

VOTE: fortian
If this is scum lynch RR

[BuJaber]

BuJaber - idk. I thought the wagon here originally was scum driven, and it still could be. I didn’t like Varsoon’s attitude on the wagon. I feel like one of them are probably scum. BuJaber hasn’t really done anything townie, but he might be a bit too scummy from playstyle.

Not my fault people don't trust my reads. I've been pushing pretty hard.

RCE my first scumread flipped anti-town. Chick flipped scum. People should trust me on DGB but they aren't. Definitely at least 1 scum between fortian and RR. And then there's thor who doesn't post.

[BuJaber]

then there's thor who doesn't post.

That is objectively not true.
It's also subjectively questionable considering it requires you to kind of ignore the speed blitz that was Day 2.
Are you saying my posts (of which there are still quite a few) are totally incapable of being read for alignment relevant info?
It's not like I'm posting empty dross - I'm posting opinions.

The subjective part is me picking you for inactivity because I keep forgetting that you're even in this.

Objectively though you're one of the lowest posters in the game. If you meant that I am 'literally' wrong then yes your posts are more than 0. But I am not objectively wrong by any means. Not in a game with 3800+ posts.

Day 2 was fast but that's no excuse not to post anything unless you're claiming you had real life obstacles. Since you didn't claim VLA I can't assume this. And by responding this fast you proved you're following the game.

[BuJaber]

BuJ
old buddy old pal

you believe my guilty on gamma? right... right???

I was not aware you claimed a guilty. I saw the associative case with Chick and wanted to see gamma's reaction to it. I also feel stronger about my own scumreads.

But if you are claiming a guilty I have no reason to doubt you.

[BuJaber]

Oh I'm dumb I thought you were joking. And I thought the person doubting the cop claim was tails.

Hmm fine profii you got it VOTE: gamma. Credit to gamma though I wouldn't have guessed.

[BuJaber]

He could not have known if his result was tainted or not.
Nobody could have predicted the flips coming today or another day. Therefore had alchemist not died and nero not been flipped, alchemist had no reasonable excuse for making us lynch a townie.

Alch tracked bef
Bef went nowhere
Bef claimed to have visited hebi

Therefore alch knew bef is lying
What are you talking about

Yeah I get it now after gamma's explanation.

@pint - why is fortian town?

[BuJaber]

So BEF sacrificed himself, hebi, and potentially any protectives that visit him just to kill 1 scum?

[BuJaber]

Varsoon looks pretty shocking as he didn't want to lynch either of these 2 underdogs.
BuJ has an ISO worth checking, as whilst he was on the Chick wagon, I can't remember from this copypasta if he was near the end and just inevitably bussed - however I do feel him taking my claim for granted in this day of doubt that he might just have TMI'd.
Tails I struggle to read.

I am leaning town for you.
A bus driver is already dead. I doubt there's a 2nd.
A roleblocker is already dead. I doubt there's a 2nd.
If you were scum you killed yourself just to lynch gamma. I doubt you'd do that.

There is no reason not to believe your claim.

[BuJaber]

So BEF sacrificed himself, hebi, and potentially any protectives that visit him just to kill 1 scum?

to be fair, in multiball, he might have hoped that a fake guilty made both parties believe he was !otherscum so then he could have got 2 which would have been p. cool.

I don't know man that still requires 2 different scum factions deciding to shoot who they suspect is scum. I personally don't assume scum are going to target each other intentionally until a little later in the game.

@pint - why is fortian town?

We have similar reads and they have a good vote history. They have been very cooperative too, and doesn't try to push their own reads in everyone's face. Similar to what RR does but with more precision.

I find it hard to believe their sudden change of heart wrt RR.

[BuJaber]

Town typically get quite attached to their reads. Their case on RR was involved a hell of a lot of effort.

And now it's even more doubtful because profii is claiming cop so fortian is probably not a cop unless we have 2 for some reason. Like if he were a cop with an inno on RR it would track but right now it doesn't.

[BuJaber]

Haha! So apart from Gamma and Nero, all my other reads have so far been correct.

BuJaber is quite possibly with Clem/Gamma based on reading I did overnight FTR.

how could you possibly think this?

Actually, I never did. I’m coming clean now. I’m town hardcore gambiting this game.

so you dont have anything to do with any of the kills?

Nope.

I’m an investigative. I got all of Alonzo’s Vanilla Cop results, and I became an alignment cop after he died.

I got a guilty on Bujaber.

VOTE: Bujaber

What the hell??
Now I know your gambits aren't town-motivated.

FL is lying. Why on earth would he become a cop only after alonzo's death, if he is not inheriting his own ability?

He doesn't claim day-x cop, he claims a role specifically tied to alonzo, but he suddenly gets a different role?

if you all would remember: I was right about varsoon.. he wasn't reading the thread properly and kept misrepresenting people and pushing me for baseless reasons. Now I'm supposedly "mafia" which was varsoon's alignment?
yeah right



and just take a look at these:

And reading his ISO I'm not so sure RCE is scum anymore but will revisit if majiffy flips scum.

So of the people I wanted to focus on in post 626..

RR, profii - probably town
RCE, Mala, Varsoon - scumlean
Majiffy, hebichan, chickadee - scum

Holy, no wonder there’s a giant ass wagon on you.

The only ones I agree with here are potentially Mala and maybe RCE.

Eh, I’m null on the chickadee slot, but still. This reads list is why there’s a big wagon on you. Wtf is this stance coming from?

@Nero - why is Bujaber scum and not being pushed for NAI things/flawed town play? You seem like classic townNero who comes in and gets attacked by everyone to me.

A null on chickadee and a TMI post spewing me town.

[BuJaber]

also a gross disagreement with my readlist which has so far turned out to be quite accurate.

[BuJaber]

I'm really pissed off he tried to pull this off on a friday.

If I didn't have modding responsibilities I may never have even logged in until it was too late.

[BuJaber]

Also nancy or drewva or whichever of you it is.. how can you still have me as null?

With the thor flip I proved to be the one correct about your personality and he was trying to shade us both by misrepresenting my arguments about you.

[BuJaber]

FL continues to lie. He could not have targetted me even if he tried.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

@Nancy - I don't think I'm wrong about your personality if I got your alignment right. Your continuing misunderstanding of so many roles and flips in this game is scummy just as an exsmple but based on your passionate arguments with so many players here in the I've concluded that you're town because you felt very different than overkill 1.
Thor had a different and conditional wincon and had a wild shot. He wasn't town. He was 3p.

[BuJaber]

No and I have no interest in full claiming. You either believe me over FL based on my play throughout the game or you don't. I know most of you don't know me well but I've been scumhunting very well and it shows.

[BuJaber]

Passionate argument with people about your cases does come off as very confident. The two are closely related. If you think I'm talking about AtE then I'm sorry for using the wrong words. AtE is never AI just because it's AtE. There's town AtE and scum AtE.

How was I different in overkill 1? If you think I was then you have to expand your view of my meta. This is only the 2nd time you've seen my town game.

I know that FL didn't target anyone. That's all you need to know

[BuJaber]

TIL tracker is the only investigative in the game.

[BuJaber]

Since you need it spelled out.

JK.

N1: RCE
N2: RR
N3: DGB
N4: FL

[BuJaber]

Woooow ..that was so hard to figure out.. the soft was right in front of you

[BuJaber]

If scum kill me instead of wasting their shot on my planned target I blame you

[BuJaber]

I'm not the one lying... just wait for someone who understands the flips verifies.

Pedit: JK is jailkeeper

[BuJaber]

You can't even read YOU and FL said I'm tracker not me.

[BuJaber]

It sounded like a fakeclaim to me. Particularly that you've claimed multiple times. Also could be a nice claim for SK and reducing KPN is always good. Even if it weren't a fakeclaim targetting you would tell me things.

Like if you lie. Or if someone lies about targetting you.

Only night that was different wss night 2 because I hadn't sorted RR yet confidently and I thought if they were town it'd be worth keeping them alive and if scum I block them at least.

[BuJaber]

My impression was that you were nullish or leantown for a lot of people. Means you could be targetted by both investigatives and scum alike. Good source of info

[BuJaber]

Anybody who bothers to ISO FL will see how many claims he actually made so far.

As for DGB.. when she flips scum not 3p I'm gonna laugh all the way to the ego bank. 1 v 24 and the 1 gets it right.

[BuJaber]

Thanks for modding A50. Fun and crazy.

I think I prefer games with more opportunity to game-solve. This felt a bit more like dodging bullets and getting cop results. Definitely overkill as promised so I guess that was the point.

Thanks for the invite to both overkills. Looking forward to more games modded by you.

[BuJaber]

Thanks for modding A50. Fun and crazy.

I think I prefer games with more opportunity to game-solve. This felt a bit more like dodging bullets and getting cop results. Definitely overkill as promised so I guess that was the point.

Thanks for the invite to both overkills. Looking forward to more games modded by you.

Sorry about my hard guilty on you, but had to do it.

Dude imo my claims were much more believable. I'm freakin glad they didn't believe me because my read of the situation D5 was obviously so wrong and I would have probably been lyncged because they would still suspect me even if you got lynched wheras me getting lynched almost locktowned you for everyone.