Open 805 Panic Room Day 1

[Green Crayons]

NM can we be in thread masons?

[Green Crayons]

Hot take GOT was bad after the first season and the books had some interesting character arcs but way too much rape.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: D&D >:(

Hi!

VOTE: Infinity

Hydras please turn on sigs with names thanks

VOTE: infinity

[Green Crayons]

Hi shadowslug, I see you are an alt but you are still relatively inexperienced with non-newbie games is that correct?

inexperienced with all forms of games

Certainly are an expert with playing games with my heart.

;_;

[Green Crayons]

Hey guys welcome back to another mafia analyzation post! So uhh... as you can see, this game has just started and people alrrady made a lot of posts. But before you continue I'd like to mention that 0 percent of you are actually subscribed to this post so make sure you subscribe and click that bell to turn on the notifications. OK where did we left off again? Yeah right... As you can see PenguinPower has been eating that bag of 甘粟 for the last few years which is clearly against the laws of physics so he's definitely an alien to spy on us. Hydras are a type of snakes and snakes are dangerous, so the two hydrae we see in this game are definitely dangerous too. Green crayons are inanimate objects but this specific Green Crayon somehow developed into a living organism. Maybe that organism is made out of green crayons. Totally alien. MURDERCAT might murder me at any time so very scummy. N_M is a jester and judging fron his apperance, he is probably also an alien. Shadowslug is a slug so that is suspicious. Gamma Emerald is also an inanimate object which could've mutated. Alien. Infinity is not clear on his vote (D&D). Although we can assume which hydra he is voting for, but that is something that our sponsor for today - Mafiascum will do! Mafiascum is a website for you to play mafia games freely and make friends or foes! Don't mind too much about the foe part though. If you click the link in the description down below you will get an 100% discount on your account. Please enjoy this post and have fun!

Please use paragraph breaks.

[Green Crayons]

Hi!

What’s wrong the infinity votes?

Am I scummy?

Also lol yvotta

Skitter do you have meta on yvotta?

“Am I scummy?”

Is this a mafiascum humor statement? Or is this a legitimate Q?

[Green Crayons]

What about these posts led gc to vote infinity?

Feel like we should don a sleuth hat and grab a magnifying glass.

[Green Crayons]

Gc why *did* u vote infinity?

Infinity what do u think of my lilith read btw?

~ Skitter

He was the first player to vote + bonus of already having a vote on him.

Real intricate thoughts, I know.

[Green Crayons]

Lol I play catchup I promise to respond. Unless if I’m ignoring you. <3

[Green Crayons]

i like skitter but they seem kinda nervous right now

UNVOTE:

Nervous how?

[Green Crayons]

Yotta: thanks it’s just otherwise hard on my old eyes and difficult for my old brain to process without some space in between thoughts

[Green Crayons]

Penguin why did you call me newbie twice and not just my name that's pompous of you

Because you said you were new and the rest of the PL is not?

But, sure, let’s insult people. Good look to start.

MMMMMMMMMMHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: shadow

[Green Crayons]

If this flips red let’s also flip Penguin.

[Green Crayons]

I don’t really think skitter came off as defensive, maybe like.. confused that infinity assumed a reason for her read that wasn’t true and wasn’t stated. Can we instead talk about why shadowslug seems to think her response is “annoyed in a defensive way”?

- Daenerys

I don't think it's AI (for shadow)

Yeah but did you see his 121?

[Green Crayons]

I’m scrunching my nose.

This seems too easy.

[Green Crayons]

Shadow is one of my 4 townreads

~ skitter

Because?

[Green Crayons]

Avoiding (twice!) the question while attacking the player questioning your behavior is very new player scum behavior.

[Green Crayons]

Very “new player scum behavior”

Not

“Very new player” scum behavior

[Green Crayons]

^^^ that’s probably town sort mentality even if it’s wrong on me and prob shadow

[Green Crayons]

You literally quoted a post where I am questioning my read.

[Green Crayons]

You literally quoted a post where I am questioning my read.

Questioning your read why? Because it seems so easy? that's bullcrap reasoning

Why is it bullcrap?

[Green Crayons]

this post and 149 feel like trying to explain gut reads

To explain this better, I feel like scum would feel more obligated to address the apparent "contradiction" I brought up in 142 but instead he's just saying what he thinks

Using words gang

Don’t see how 154 isn’t exactly what you said it isn’t.

I don’t think 154 is indicative either way but I’m not seeing how it assuages concerns.

[Green Crayons]

If it feels like there may be a flaw in your read then that's worth pursuing

But rather than question/make a post that would further develop your thoughts you choose to post a "Hmm guys Im totally reconsidering rn"

Ur being scummy

My post is developing my thoughts.

[Green Crayons]

I don’t have to engage you when others are doing it.

My 133 is flagging that maybe you’re just playing like a bad new town player instead of a scum new player.

[Green Crayons]

I got you, infinity.

[Green Crayons]

I don’t have to engage you when others are doing it.

My 133 is flagging that maybe you’re just playing like a bad new town player instead of a scum new player.

And what posts of mine gave you this impression? What's the distinction?

It’s there in the thread. I reacted to your posts in real time.

The distinction is hard to figure out!

[Green Crayons]

So is your problem that I'm too certain in my read or that I'm conflicted?

You're going to have to settle on which one you want to say makes me scum so you can finally finish this tiresome windup.

[Green Crayons]

Right its 6 and not 5 to flip, i was thinking 5 for some reason

VOTE: infinity

~ skitter

Pedit i thought was a reaction to ur recent posting from just now

Why this vote?

[Green Crayons]

ty skitter

any thoughts about this?

i like skitter but they seem kinda nervous right now

UNVOTE:

[Green Crayons]

That's fair. I happen to think you're pretty town after 188.

I wanted to see who all was voting infinity and that took me to you. I agree with your initial reaction to 56 (but I think ultimately that Q doesn't come from scum). The rest of your 188 doesn't really matter to me as a matter of substance, but seems like a sufficiently just-complex-enough-but-simple-too explanation to read fairly natural.

[Green Crayons]

Maybe i should but i dont really

idk you're the one who thinks he's town, I just wanted to see if you saw anything wrong with it.

It's a combo of all three points that I think is scummy:

I don't like that he unvotes insanity after that wagon gets 4 votes (esp. now I have good town feelings about insanity)
AND
I don't like that he throws suspicion at another player while unvoting
AND
I don't like that he doesn't vote to either replace his insanity vote or to follow through on his suspicion

[Green Crayons]

That's fair. I happen to think you're pretty town after 188

Perfect.

-Dumbass

This half is possibly scum tho.

[Green Crayons]

Maybe i should but i dont really

idk you're the one who thinks he's town, I just wanted to see if you saw anything wrong with it.

It's a combo of all three points that I think is scummy:

I don't like that he unvotes insanity after that wagon gets 4 votes (esp. now I have good town feelings about insanity)
AND
I don't like that he throws suspicion at another player while unvoting
AND
I don't like that he doesn't vote to either replace his insanity vote or to follow through on his suspicion

insanity = infinity

[Green Crayons]

which part, the unvote or the good vibes?

[Green Crayons]

which part, the unvote or the good vibes?

Specifically why unvoting a town read of yours is scummy

sure it's because 8 posts earlier skitter puts infinity at 4/6

shadow is now on a leading wagon (the only wagon? honestly idk)

there's no indication that whatever reason shadow originally voted for infinity has gone away

so his unvote looks like he wants off that train for <reasons>

bc I (now, looking back) think infinity is looking more like town, there's a greater probability for those <reasons> to be "not wanting to be on a mis-elim wagon"

[Green Crayons]

^^^ preemptively agree that this isn't conclusive. just that it more likely aligns with having knowledge about infinity's alignment at the time of unvote when i don't think that assessment was likely or probably from shadow's POV without scum knowledge

also it's tied with the other two points which I think adds to why the unvote is suspicious

[Green Crayons]

likely or probable*

[Green Crayons]

yes, if at the time of shadow's unvote there was some suggestion that shadow had a view that infinity was town

there's no suggestion that the reason for shadow's vote had been addressed

[Green Crayons]

Like, iso shadow and infinity

and tell me on what basis between shadow's infinity vote in 37 to his unvote in 90 that shadow has a change of heart on infinity

I don't see it at all

[Green Crayons]

I don't like his buddying of me, and I don't like his interaction with Shadow over the noob comments--looks like really forced tension

[Green Crayons]

I unvoted infinity cos I thought 5 votes equaled a hammer btw. I don't think that Infinity post i quoted was even that scummy either, just an in the moment gut read thing.

So you paid enough attention to see that there was an infinity vote, but not enough attention to see that that very post said that it was six to hammer?

Right its 6 and not 5 to flip, i was thinking 5 for some reason

VOTE: infinity

~ skitter

Pedit i thought was a reaction to ur recent posting from just now

i like skitter but they seem kinda nervous right now

UNVOTE:

[Green Crayons]

crayon really needs to get up to date on terms btw

I'm misusing jargon or failing to use terms?

[Green Crayons]

Very “new player scum behavior”

Not

“Very new player” scum behavior

Trying to break this down
You’re saying it comes off as newbish over scummish, while the thing you’re trying to NOT say is that it’s newbscum behavior?

No, 141 was clarifying what the "very" was modifying: the behavior (of a new player scum), and not the newest of the player.

[Green Crayons]

NM can we be in thread masons?

Hi GC!

That wasn't a yes.

[Green Crayons]

Salsabil: both questions you asked me are answered in the thread

[Green Crayons]

Misusing the term buddying.

Disagree.

[Green Crayons]

Salsabil: both questions you asked me are answered in the thread

Can you mention those posts please? I'm on phone right now, so..

Post 91 and Post 214.

[Green Crayons]

Misusing the term buddying.

Disagree.

Please describe what your definition of buddying because on face value your usage here would apply to almost everyone who says they "like" or "townread" someone when that is not the definition.

185 is buddying (throwing fence-sitting vocal support behind my #1 suspect, with no follow-up vote), not you saying "i like crayons"

[Green Crayons]

Salsabil: both questions you asked me are answered in the thread

Can you mention those posts please? I'm on phone right now, so..

Post 91 and Post 214.

So the quote of

MURDERCAT

's 11 in your 45 is a mistake?

No.

[Green Crayons]

I know your thoughts were prompted.

[Green Crayons]

because you love wiki's so much

Buddying is a tactic used to subconsciously become perceived as less of a threat by another player.

With me + shadow going pretty hard at each other, one of my voters asked you for your opinion on shadow, and you give just enough support for my vote to make me feel good about my vote + you, yet also not committing to voting shadow

tactic used to subconsciously become perceived as less of a threat

[Green Crayons]

[Green Crayons]

Green Crayons, what are your thoughts on Murderkitten? Please re-quote if I have missed them in earlier posts.

-Dumbass

I have minimal thoughts, and haven't express them.

Pretty neutral opinion. His vote switch from me to Penguin, after I expressed problems with Penguin (from Murder's prompting), I think is more suggestive of town than scum.

Otherwise I get nothing much AI from his play. His probing of my shadow unvote suspicions didn't feel like it was mining for an attack on me, so while I don't think that nets him town points, I don't find it suspicious.

[Green Crayons]

It's almost like there hasn't been a votecount this game and maybe possible maybe I'm waiting to see where everything is currently.

Maybe.

Possibly.

So you finally shifted away from the "well TECHNICALLY that play doesn't fit the DEFINITION" defense.

[Green Crayons]

His vote switch from me to Penguin, after I expressed problems with Penguin (from Murder's prompting), I think is more suggestive of town than scum.

idk - seems like buddying to me

can you confirm whether it fits the definition, though?

[Green Crayons]

Why is everyone afraid of 4/5 votes?

[Green Crayons]

okay

then why are you afraid of NM getting to 4/5 votes when NM is already voting himself?

[Green Crayons]

oh i see you would vote me, not NM

[Green Crayons]

hth thats a bad reason to not vote me, i'm town and not yet in the neighborhood so my death on a rush elimination would actually be pretty useful for town info

[Green Crayons]

Why would I not want to be on a miselim wagon? I wouldn't care if Infinity gets quick elim'd as maf. I'm hardly going to cop suspicion just for having voted him. Maybe you could argue my unvote was performative, which I'd accept even if it wasn't. But your current reasoning doesn't make sense. Why does it feel like you've already concluded I'm maf and are just trying to find things to justify your read?

this

ignores my interaction with murdercat so he can be have some sort of defense


while also

further winding up waiting for those 3/4 votes on GC so he can finally shift over

[Green Crayons]

not yet in the neighborhood

oof let's not do this

ts i did it

[Green Crayons]

And I would never lolhammer my creepy eye buddy

I want to believe.

/Mulder

[Green Crayons]

NM who is the scum team i know you know.

[Green Crayons]

He addressed the "wanting to be on a miselim wagon"

he said he wouldn't care as maf if he was on a mis-elim, which is worthless, superficial self-meta

and "no reason to unvote"

no?

[Green Crayons]

so what exactly is he ignoring here?

"Maybe you could argue my unvote was performative, which I'd accept even if it wasn't. But your current reasoning doesn't make sense." ==> ignores the back-and-forth with Murder where I explain how shadow-scum wouldn't want to be on a mis-elim, how he lacked any change in view of the infinity slot between time of vote and unvote, and ignores the other two reasons for why his unvote is suspicious

[Green Crayons]

"desperate"

[Green Crayons]

meanwhile

VOTE: Gamma

[Green Crayons]

me to be mafia

don't worry snugglebug, I'll come back to voting you

[Green Crayons]

lol yes this is very town behavior

[Green Crayons]

You are not sufficiently defending shadow by attacking me, skitter. It’s quite obvious.

[Green Crayons]

Well TECHNICALLY if you look at the wiki definition of buddying you’ll see that

[Green Crayons]

Bad vote

Tell me more.

[Green Crayons]

So is that meta or are you saying that’s AI in itself?

[Green Crayons]

Okay

VOTE: shadow

[Green Crayons]

lol

[Green Crayons]

Ok fair maybe i'm misusing the term

>.> i'm poking fun of penguin

I feel like u may be scum who realized that it's easier to townread / try to get on my side than to push me

If that makes sense

someone is vastly underrating my ego

[Green Crayons]

i wouldn't back away from being antagonistic just because i would think it would be hard to go head to head

[Green Crayons]

also I ~think~ I was the first/among the first to call you town? you can check me on that, i might be wrong. but I don't see why I would have thought being antagonistic toward you would be a hard option or whatever.

[Green Crayons]

would it be accurate to say you think you'd go for the head-to-head fight even if you think it would be easier to go the buddying route as scum?

WELL THAT'S HARD TO SAY

because I was scum once in the past 5 or so years, so i have little experience with what I would actually do

in that game I was antagonistic against two players who were really good (one had called out the scum team on, like, page 5; the other was frustratingly right-for-the-wrong-reasons), but it was part of the strategy for the mechanics (it was the heaven/hell game) to try to look like obstinate town

So, drawing from that, I think GC-scum would be friendly/antagonistic with players based on optimal strategy, not necessarily what is hard or not

[Green Crayons]

oh my god it feels good to self meta

feeding my ego

[Green Crayons]

actually let me ask this a slightly different way: how hard do you think it is to misflip town!me

(apologies for being so ego-centric >.>)

~ skitter

tbqh at

this

point probably difficult, simply because of thread consensus, but I don't think that sort of vibe was happening when I started reading you as town and you don't strike me particularly as a force of nature type poster that would be impossible to mis-elim

[Green Crayons]

everyone...everyone...can we pls stop buddying each other. there is way too much of this going on.

I'm sad that you rolled scum.

[Green Crayons]

@gc weren’t you scum in ambic’s fogeys game? I no longer seem to have access to the forum so unfortunately cannot compare play/no longer have a comparison for you

- Daenerys

oh yup forgot about that


i don't recall being antagonistic toward anyone in that one. my two scumbuddies were purposefully up each other's ass

[Green Crayons]

penguin why no vote?

you got your one (1) vc per 19 pages. should be sufficient.

[Green Crayons]

You’re ridiculous if you think 1 vc per 19 pages is sufficient.

it was a joke

[Green Crayons]

Lol - I’m also voting so that kinda reinforces my point.

okay this is funny though

[Green Crayons]

oh that's right NM

boooo boring

[Green Crayons]

Don’t worry. It doesn’t.

[Green Crayons]

Penguin, are you checked out bc your partners are shadow and cat?

[Green Crayons]

Penguin, are you checked out bc your partners are shadow and cat?

why would he be checked out if that was the case? i'm coming off this altercation way better than you are lol

not seeing how this comes from town

[Green Crayons]

Notscience being in this game as an alt would definitely be interesting.

-Dumbass

confused how lillith could be confused about whether two players who are clearly not in this game are in this game

[Green Crayons]

lilith

so many i's and l's

[Green Crayons]

Flavor Leaf. You?

-Dumbass

If I thought that was a serious answer I'd be pretty concerned

at Auro giving his thoughts

on who the Mason is.

-Dumbass

????

Is the same head authoring 480 and 495? What is the Auro post being referred to in 495?

[Green Crayons]

same goes for gc.

???

I'm confused how you didn't conclude that a post, that was responding to a horrible role fishing question with a player who isn't in this game, was a joke response.

Or that the next post, which identified the mod of this game as a response to the turn-around horrible role fishing question, was also a joke response.

[Green Crayons]

I never said you were pretending. I am no longer confused about why you were confused, though.

[Green Crayons]

>:/

Tell me more.

[Green Crayons]

This interaction between lilith and auro seems rather pointless

Concur.

Any feelings re cat's recent posts?

[Green Crayons]

cat's recent play is pointedly suspicious or anti-town to the point I'm fancying that it's a purposeful strategy

[Green Crayons]

Doesn’t preemptively giving away the activity that you see as a scum claim reduce the probability that they will take that action?

[Green Crayons]

cat's recent play is pointedly suspicious or anti-town to the point I'm fancying that it's a purposeful strategy

like, to take heat off the bomb?

That's the only thing that makes sense from a cat-scum POV. I don't think an otherwise context-less "let me do some just outright bad stuff so people might go 'too scummy to be scum'" is really a valid strategy. And I don't think that cat's play is indicates a noob level approach to the game where they are just falling into these bad plays.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, I think the obvious candidates for cat-scum doing a weird strategy to draw attention to herself and away from the bomb is either shadow or me, just in terms of votes and who has garnered attention.

Can't think of anyone else who would fit the bill, but maybe infinity?

[Green Crayons]

and yes I'm very well aware of confirmation bias and so I'm hesitant about this theory on cat's play that hinges on an unflipped shadow

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, I think the obvious candidates for cat-scum doing a weird strategy to draw attention to herself and away from the bomb is either shadow or me, just in terms of votes and who has garnered attention.

Can't think of anyone else who would fit the bill, but maybe infinity?

fwiw i kinda you're doing just that >.>

~ skitter

lol, is there someone I'm drawing attention away from though? I don't think so. This is just me.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, I think the obvious candidates for cat-scum doing a weird strategy to draw attention to herself and away from the bomb is either shadow or me, just in terms of votes and who has garnered attention.

Can't think of anyone else who would fit the bill, but maybe infinity?

fwiw i kinda you're doing just that >.>

~ skitter

i sent untrod tripod a pm r.e. redacted to see what's legal and not

already asked tbone about it, I’m under the impression we must redact.

- Daenerys

This is always a helpful post

Yeah can we just stop referring to redacted? It isn't helpful to anyone and needlessly gets close to lines.

[Green Crayons]

^^^ don't know why the first quote was saved in my response box, whatevs!

[Green Crayons]

{Salsabil Faria, Shadowslug, Infinity420, Gamma Emerald?}

Salsa & infinity are fine

Gamma is probably fine

Shadow is not fine

[Green Crayons]

Yes, skitter.

[Green Crayons]

ok and the followup is: i feel like he's exhibiting a certain level of newbie-townie-earnestness in solving. do you not see that? and can i get a quick tldr on why you're scumreading him again?

~ skitter

No but feel free to point it out.

1. His slippery responses to Dragons
2. His unvote of Infinity
3. The “lol I look better than you” interjection to my Q to penguin

[Green Crayons]

GC was talking about shadow but like. He's not engaging with people who disagree with him on shadow, he's just tunneled on obvtown because he has no way to walk it back. He also has no reaction to the SRs on him and townies usually hate it when I SR them, whereas scum know that my gut read is valid. He isn't town

What a bad take.

I’ve talked through my suspicions with you and murder off the top of my head. Just bc you’re not convinced doesn’t mean I’m not engaging.

There’s nothing to say about the SRs on me. They’re wrong and I’m not even sure what they’re based on other than ppl not liking my shadow suspicions/sticking with those suspicions. I also don’t really care about the votes on me. But I also am not getting suspicious vibes from anyone in particular who is voting me bc of their vote, so I’m doubly uninterested in beating someone up for their bad gc vote to see if I can shake out a scum.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: gc

No more buddying.

[Green Crayons]

GC was talking about shadow but like. He's not engaging with people who disagree with him on shadow, he's just tunneled on obvtown because he has no way to walk it back. He also has no reaction to the SRs on him and townies usually hate it when I SR them, whereas scum know that my gut read is valid. He isn't town

Feeding a baby at 4AM and got nothing to do but stew on just how bad of a take this is.

“Tunneled but no way to walk it back” - tunneling isn’t AI; your suggestion that I should want to walk it back implies that I should know that I’m wrong about shadow, which either is a slip from scum you or pretty big ego flex about your assuredness in reading shadow.

“Town usually hate it when I SR them” - I cannot express enough how comically unsound a rule about how players sometimes react to your bad reads is. You’re comparing my reaction to other players meta (bad) that isn’t even a uniform course of action (double bad)—which means I am also acting like those town players who don’t get bent out of shape over your wrong alignment reads of them

[Green Crayons]

Also just bc shadow is my #1 suspect doesn’t mean I’ve tunneled, and you should feel bad for using this terminology incorrectly.

Penguin will soon be serving you with an appropriate monetary fine shortly.

[Green Crayons]

Ok this is kind of ass

infinity, soon: ah yes why hasn't gc engaged with this insightful commentary?

[Green Crayons]

I'd like to know about GC's thoughts on Shadow.

[Green Crayons]

i know we're all being lazy bedbugs this game

but you could just iso gc + shadow

i've had some thoughts

here are some thoughts, some of which you'll need to click to to see the suspicious shadow post i was immediately responding to

Spoiler: thoughts

Penguin why did you call me newbie twice and not just my name that's pompous of you

Because you said you were new and the rest of the PL is not?

But, sure, let’s insult people. Good look to start.

MMMMMMMMMMHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I don’t really think skitter came off as defensive, maybe like.. confused that infinity assumed a reason for her read that wasn’t true and wasn’t stated. Can we instead talk about why shadowslug seems to think her response is “annoyed in a defensive way”?

- Daenerys

I don't think it's AI (for shadow)

Yeah but did you see his 121?

Avoiding (twice!) the question while attacking the player questioning your behavior is very new player scum behavior.

So is your problem that I'm too certain in my read or that I'm conflicted?

You're going to have to settle on which one you want to say makes me scum so you can finally finish this tiresome windup.

Maybe i should but i dont really

idk you're the one who thinks he's town, I just wanted to see if you saw anything wrong with it.

It's a combo of all three points that I think is scummy:

I don't like that he unvotes insanity after that wagon gets 4 votes (esp. now I have good town feelings about insanity)
AND
I don't like that he throws suspicion at another player while unvoting
AND
I don't like that he doesn't vote to either replace his insanity vote or to follow through on his suspicion

which part, the unvote or the good vibes?

Specifically why unvoting a town read of yours is scummy

sure it's because 8 posts earlier skitter puts infinity at 4/6

shadow is now on a leading wagon (the only wagon? honestly idk)

there's no indication that whatever reason shadow originally voted for infinity has gone away

so his unvote looks like he wants off that train for <reasons>

bc I (now, looking back) think infinity is looking more like town, there's a greater probability for those <reasons> to be "not wanting to be on a mis-elim wagon"

^^^ preemptively agree that this isn't conclusive. just that it more likely aligns with having knowledge about infinity's alignment at the time of unvote when i don't think that assessment was likely or probably from shadow's POV without scum knowledge

also it's tied with the other two points which I think adds to why the unvote is suspicious

yes, if at the time of shadow's unvote there was some suggestion that shadow had a view that infinity was town

there's no suggestion that the reason for shadow's vote had been addressed

Like, iso shadow and infinity

and tell me on what basis between shadow's infinity vote in 37 to his unvote in 90 that shadow has a change of heart on infinity

I don't see it at all

I unvoted infinity cos I thought 5 votes equaled a hammer btw. I don't think that Infinity post i quoted was even that scummy either, just an in the moment gut read thing.

So you paid enough attention to see that there was an infinity vote, but not enough attention to see that that very post said that it was six to hammer?

Right its 6 and not 5 to flip, i was thinking 5 for some reason

VOTE: infinity

~ skitter

Pedit i thought was a reaction to ur recent posting from just now

i like skitter but they seem kinda nervous right now

UNVOTE:

Why would I not want to be on a miselim wagon? I wouldn't care if Infinity gets quick elim'd as maf. I'm hardly going to cop suspicion just for having voted him. Maybe you could argue my unvote was performative, which I'd accept even if it wasn't. But your current reasoning doesn't make sense. Why does it feel like you've already concluded I'm maf and are just trying to find things to justify your read?

this

ignores my interaction with murdercat so he can be have some sort of defense


while also

further winding up waiting for those 3/4 votes on GC so he can finally shift over

so what exactly is he ignoring here?

"Maybe you could argue my unvote was performative, which I'd accept even if it wasn't. But your current reasoning doesn't make sense." ==> ignores the back-and-forth with Murder where I explain how shadow-scum wouldn't want to be on a mis-elim, how he lacked any change in view of the infinity slot between time of vote and unvote, and ignores the other two reasons for why his unvote is suspicious

"desperate"

You are not sufficiently defending shadow by attacking me, skitter. It’s quite obvious.

lol

Penguin, are you checked out bc your partners are shadow and cat?

why would he be checked out if that was the case? i'm coming off this altercation way better than you are lol

not seeing how this comes from town

[Green Crayons]

(2) I had to scroll all the way to the top of his ISO to see, and was it something you mentioned or questioned him about earlier? Do you feel there's any special motivation for him to do that as scum?

Yes, there are several posts about this already (including with skitter):

Spoiler: GC + skitter, GC + murdercat

ty skitter

any thoughts about this?

i like skitter but they seem kinda nervous right now

UNVOTE:

Maybe i should but i dont really

idk you're the one who thinks he's town, I just wanted to see if you saw anything wrong with it.

It's a combo of all three points that I think is scummy:

I don't like that he unvotes insanity after that wagon gets 4 votes (esp. now I have good town feelings about insanity)
AND
I don't like that he throws suspicion at another player while unvoting
AND
I don't like that he doesn't vote to either replace his insanity vote or to follow through on his suspicion

I don't like that he unvotes insanity after that wagon gets 4 votes (esp. now I have good town feelings about insanity)

Can you say more about this

which part, the unvote or the good vibes?

which part, the unvote or the good vibes?

Specifically why unvoting a town read of yours is scummy

which part, the unvote or the good vibes?

Specifically why unvoting a town read of yours is scummy

sure it's because 8 posts earlier skitter puts infinity at 4/6

shadow is now on a leading wagon (the only wagon? honestly idk)

there's no indication that whatever reason shadow originally voted for infinity has gone away

so his unvote looks like he wants off that train for <reasons>

bc I (now, looking back) think infinity is looking more like town, there's a greater probability for those <reasons> to be "not wanting to be on a mis-elim wagon"

^^^ preemptively agree that this isn't conclusive. just that it more likely aligns with having knowledge about infinity's alignment at the time of unvote when i don't think that assessment was likely or probably from shadow's POV without scum knowledge

also it's tied with the other two points which I think adds to why the unvote is suspicious

likely or probable*

so his unvote looks like he wants off that train for

bc I (now, looking back) think infinity is looking more like town, there's a greater probability for those to be "not wanting to be on a mis-elim wagon"

I guess I sort of knew this is what you would say so I should have been more clear. Isn't there also town motivation for doing the exact same action?

yes, if at the time of shadow's unvote there was some suggestion that shadow had a view that infinity was town

there's no suggestion that the reason for shadow's vote had been addressed

Like, iso shadow and infinity

and tell me on what basis between shadow's infinity vote in 37 to his unvote in 90 that shadow has a change of heart on infinity

I don't see it at all

shadow later piped up about his unvote:

Spoiler: GC & shadow

I unvoted infinity cos I thought 5 votes equaled a hammer btw. I don't think that Infinity post i quoted was even that scummy either, just an in the moment gut read thing.

I unvoted infinity cos I thought 5 votes equaled a hammer btw. I don't think that Infinity post i quoted was even that scummy either, just an in the moment gut read thing.

So you paid enough attention to see that there was an infinity vote, but not enough attention to see that that very post said that it was six to hammer?

Right its 6 and not 5 to flip, i was thinking 5 for some reason

VOTE: infinity

~ skitter

Pedit i thought was a reaction to ur recent posting from just now

i like skitter but they seem kinda nervous right now

UNVOTE:

I unvoted infinity cos I thought 5 votes equaled a hammer btw. I don't think that Infinity post i quoted was even that scummy either, just an in the moment gut read thing.

So you paid enough attention to see that there was an infinity vote, but not enough attention to see that that very post said that it was six to hammer?

No I didn't read 82 when I unvoted, posts were coming in pretty quick at that time

Why would I not want to be on a miselim wagon? I wouldn't care if Infinity gets quick elim'd as maf. I'm hardly going to cop suspicion just for having voted him. Maybe you could argue my unvote was performative, which I'd accept even if it wasn't. But your current reasoning doesn't make sense. Why does it feel like you've already concluded I'm maf and are just trying to find things to justify your read?

Which doesn't pass the smell test.

"I was afraid of getting infinity to Elim -1/-2, so i unvoted"
-Okay, but the most recent vote for infinity explicitly said before the vote that it was E-6, you didn't read that post?
"No I wasn't reading posts"

So he was afraid of putting infinity close to elim, which would require him to be paying attention to vote posts. But if he was paying attention to vote posts, he would have seen skitter's vote post that said Elim was at 6. So he says that he didn't see skitter's vote post. But if he didn't see the vote post, he had no reason to be concerned about quick eliminating infinity!

It's just after-the-fact lies to cover up his actions.


shadow later went on to justify his unvote, but I didn't respond because nobody was listening to me and I don't find it productive to engage with likely scum:

Spoiler: shadow justification

I don't have a strong reason to vote Infinity in the first place. It's like page 2. Not a lock in scumread. Already said this. I don't need to provide a reason to unvote infinity either; you're taking an absence of reasoning on my part and drawing a cynical conclusion. If you wanted a reason you could have just asked rather than call me mafia.

"I don't like that he throws suspicion at another player while unvoting" - Ok? explain why this is a scumtell.

"I don't like that he doesn't vote to either replace his insanity vote or to follow through on his suspicion" - My suspicions were on skitter at that point, who I did follow up with. I don't need to vote.

Anything else I missed? Why are you so desperate for me to be mafia?

But since you're paying attention, D&D, I'll respond to this.

That he didn't have a good reason to vote infinity in the first place is NBD. Like, no shit. It was very early game. The problem for the unvote is that

nothing changed about infinity's play between the vote and unvote

. Also that his later justification for being afraid about a quick elim are BS, per the above.

The other two points (throwing suspicion elsewhere, but no vote) are suspicious because shadow had already displayed, per his infinity vote, that he is a player who is fine putting a vote down for less-than-stellar reasons. Note:

that isn't a problem, especially early game! It's good! I support it!

But by unvoting infinity while simultaneously shading skitter without a skitter vote is inconsistent with how shadow plays the game with his votes. That is--if he's a town player who throws down votes early to get a reaction, then presumably he would have unvoted infinity and voted skitter. Because he didn't act in conformity to his initial play suggests that he is being calculating with his votes.

[Green Crayons]

I couldn't really find (1)

Also several posts already about this:

Spoiler: D&D + shadow + gc

I don’t really think skitter came off as defensive, maybe like.. confused that infinity assumed a reason for her read that wasn’t true and wasn’t stated. Can we instead talk about why shadowslug seems to think her response is “annoyed in a defensive way”?

- Daenerys

I don’t really think skitter came off as defensive, maybe like.. confused that infinity assumed a reason for her read that wasn’t true and wasn’t stated. Can we instead talk about why shadowslug seems to think her response is “annoyed in a defensive way”?

- Daenerys

Well now this just seems like you're inviting other people to question me rather than doing the dirty work yourself

VOTE: shadow

I don’t really think skitter came off as defensive, maybe like.. confused that infinity assumed a reason for her read that wasn’t true and wasn’t stated. Can we instead talk about why shadowslug seems to think her response is “annoyed in a defensive way”?

- Daenerys

Well now this just seems like you're inviting other people to question me rather than doing the dirty work yourself

Okay

Explain why you think skitter’s response is “annoyed in a defensive way”

- Daenerys

Actually first question which I dont think anyone asked yet is why is that Yyotta post not one scum would make?

Actually first question which I dont think anyone asked yet is why is that Yyotta post not one scum would make?

Why not ask her yourself if you think the answer is important?

- Daenerys

I’m scrunching my nose.

This seems too easy.

Avoiding (twice!) the question while attacking the player questioning your behavior is very new player scum behavior.

[Green Crayons]

I couldn't really find . . . (3)

Only this:

Spoiler: GC + shadow

Penguin, are you checked out bc your partners are shadow and cat?

Penguin, are you checked out bc your partners are shadow and cat?

why would he be checked out if that was the case? i'm coming off this altercation way better than you are lol

Penguin, are you checked out bc your partners are shadow and cat?

why would he be checked out if that was the case? i'm coming off this altercation way better than you are lol

not seeing how this comes from town

Basically I ask penguin a reaction question, and shadow jumps in to talk about whether the town is perceiving shadow or gc better which doesn't even really answer the Q I posed to penguin. shows a mentality that is focused on winning favorability points over finding scum.

[Green Crayons]

also when I did my big ole spoiler quote fest for yyotta, i remembered shadow's comically suspicious admonition of skitter for failing to chainsaw defense

[Green Crayons]

@gc, some shadowslug posts i liked:

Spoiler:

i might be new but that doesnt mean you should say "newbie did this" for every move i make

it's like saying the "new guy" when you have a new person at school. it's a little patronising

i like the tone of this one, i'm not sure (new) scum is quite so stalwart in defending themselves against something like this
(i.e. i think they've be a little bit meeker/ more defense - and apologies for calling you new in the post about just that, but it's informing my read here >.>)

~

Well now this just seems like you're inviting other people to question me rather than doing the dirty work yourself

similarly, i like the tone here

~

Had to reread to make sure I read the situation correctly

Here's my intepration:

Skitter: yyotta is townie
Infinity: I disagree with reads of this nature
Skitter: I didn't make that read

The problem is skitter immediately defends their thought process rather than trying to correct Infinity. As far as i can see skitter never says why Yyotta's opening is not scum. It was immediately on the defensive. That's why it pinged me.

i like the analysis of this one

~

i like his pushback on your push on him

like idk i can go and quote more but his analysis is good, his tone is good, his line of questioning is good.
i don't see much to scumread here

lol we just fundamentally view him differently

107 is super manufactured and part of why I think shadow/penguin is a possible pair if shadow is indeed scum
121 i absolutely hate because its attacking his questioner rather than answering the question
149 is work, but it doesn't move the needle on anything. the skitter/infinity exchange was noise, and shadow sorting it out doesn't scum hunt but does make him appear active.

[Green Crayons]

"I was afraid of getting infinity to Elim -1/-2, so i unvoted"
-Okay, but the most recent vote for infinity explicitly said before the vote that it was E-6, you didn't read that post?
"No I wasn't reading posts"

Ehh, there's a reason votes are highlighted in white, you can see them even if you're skimming posts

just keep make excuses for him my dude

---

I also think the other points are kind of nitpicky, like new players can be awkward with votes, and unvoting your RVS or semi-RVS vote is something that's fairly common from new players ime when they don't have another confident SR

and while i get how you view it as scummy your scumread feels almost technical if that makes sense? like you're going 'well he should have done X but Y happened instead so he's scum' and like on the surface it kinda sounds ok but it's just not super convincing, or like, it doesn't take into account things like his tone or perspective

what y'all call nitpicky or technical, I call indications of scum perspective.

i don't focus on "tone" (not quite sure what that means) but I've also highlighted posts where his posts communicate a perspective that isn't scum hunting or town defensive, but attempts to discredit me (calling my suspicions of him desperate; trying to get skitter to chainsaw defense for him; his unprompted taunting that more ppl see him favorably over me)

[Green Crayons]

infinity, the only one of those that strike me as worth giving town credit is 585

[Green Crayons]

gc do you have a read on infinity atm?

~ skitter

it was strong town for a while and now it's sort of medium town

[Green Crayons]

hth i think yyotta is possibly maybe a mis-elim candidate and so I'm a little suspicious of Gamma and MURDER for their continued votes there

I think I'm more suspicious of the latter of those two because at least the former was prodding yyotta and MURDER just parked a vote


VOTE: MURDERCAT

[Green Crayons]

my god this game is stale and there are actually votes on someone who i think is worth pursuing and so i'm trying to create a wagon and y'all are hemming and hawing

[Green Crayons]

well i can't help you there. i was going to ask Gamma and MURDER to tell me their thoughts about the other's vote but people started voting MURDER so this is more fun for me.

[Green Crayons]

how many votes are on shadow?

[Green Crayons]

comments on me

you need to get over yourself

[Green Crayons]

i did want to push you but now i don't, you don't see me shading you do you?

[Green Crayons]

if i'm not pushing you that's a pretty good indication that i don't want to push you

[Green Crayons]

I'll update the wiki entry on reading minds to include taking note of observable behavior.

[Green Crayons]

I’m sorry but I can’t have fun in mafia games as town, Cakez? Is that what you’re saying?

...Is that what you think he's saying?

[Green Crayons]

That he didn't have a good reason to vote infinity in the first place is NBD. Like, no shit. It was very early game. The problem for the unvote is that nothing changed about infinity's play between the vote and unvote. Also that his later justification for being afraid about a quick elim are BS, per the above.

The other two points (throwing suspicion elsewhere, but no vote) are suspicious because shadow had already displayed, per his infinity vote, that he is a player who is fine putting a vote down for less-than-stellar reasons. Note: that isn't a problem, especially early game! It's good! I support it!

But by unvoting infinity while simultaneously shading skitter without a skitter vote is inconsistent with how shadow plays the game with his votes. That is--if he's a town player who throws down votes early to get a reaction, then presumably he would have unvoted infinity and voted skitter. Because he didn't act in conformity to his initial play suggests that he is being calculating with his votes.

Thanks for the explanation! my bad, I should've read closer. But I feel this line of reasoning is problematic because I can't imagine what

scum

motivation he'd have to unvote in that manner.

Do you agree that town can be inconsistent sometimes?

If so, how would one distinguish between

town

inconsistency and

scum

inconsistency? And this also means that inconsistency does not imply calculated play, no?

To me, scum inconsistency is backed by playing to an agenda / to force unnatural positions. I see neither of that here. And it's a very plausible town thought process.

Scum on that position on a mislim wagon would probably

love

for the wagon to go through, as it only benefits scum (little info to the town and a lot of suspicion on the hammerer), and unvoting breaks momentum. The thought that scum would unvote to "stay off a miselim wagon" that early rings hollow: if you have empirical evidence of scum players doing this early in games, I'd love to see it.

I'll respond to the other parts in a bit, but in the meantime: did you recognize that you've played with me a few months earlier in a Vi-moderated game?

-Dumbass

Is dumbass Auro? I recognize the name and know we've played together but don't remember the game or much other than that.

Yes town are inconsistent. In how they view suspicious behavior--for example, they see Player A do X and find it suspicious, but Player B does X and it's not suspicious.

I don't recall seeing town inconsistent in how they actually play--for example, how they feel about the sanctity of voting. Some players are very careful with their votes. Others are not. I'm unfamiliar with town being inconsistent in that type of play within a single segment of the game. I don't see a town-based reason for this inconsistency (contrast with differing views on whether "X" action is suspicious, which can be influenced by subjective feelings toward the players who are both doing X). I do see a scum-based reason for this inconsistency as I noted.

Empirical evidence... no? Other than some very special starlets who Have Some Time On Their Hands, does anyone? Do you have empirical evidence showing that scum love to be on early game mis-elim flash wagons?

Finally, we just have different views of what scum would like to do with regard to any early mis-elim wagon, probably because we personally play scum differently. I think a newer scum player, like shadow, would be more cautious about being on an early game D1 quick elim wagon.

[Green Crayons]

I don't see why continuously voting for me would be a good reason to join the wagon on MURDERKITTY.

I think you're possibly mis-elim material*, meaning you're low-hanging fruit for scum to vote/suspect.


*I'm probably not using the right term, but whatever the phrase is for a player who habitually looks/acts suspicious and often gets eliminated for it but that's just how they play as town.

[Green Crayons]

Shadow's play has been direct and unabashed

I felt that he's been very towny since then, displaying nuance that I almost never see from newbscum

y'all are doing a great rendition of Rashomon


Regardless, I don't think scum being careful about not wanting to be on an early mis-elim wagon dictates how a player presents themselves in terms of attitude.

[Green Crayons]

Also can someone come up with a good reason for MCat being scum or is this just because he’s not a TR yet
I feel like most games MCat gets pressed early as town

how do you feel about his yyotta vote?

[Green Crayons]

NM, what's your comprehension level of the gamestate?

[Green Crayons]

that's precisely why I'm asking it.

for example, I can support shadow votes without liking yyotta's vote on shadow.

I want to know how you assess MURDER's yyotta vote park.

[Green Crayons]

NM, what's your comprehension level of the gamestate?

Not Applicable

attaboy

[Green Crayons]

that's precisely why I'm asking it.

for example, I can support shadow votes without liking yyotta's vote on shadow.

I want to know how you assess MURDER's yyotta vote park.

Well I've done the exact same thing pretty much, so I don't see much wrong with it, especially from a neutral POV (though the effectiveness of the term neutral is questionable)

Disagree. You’ve interacted with yyotta in a way that seemed to try to get her to play in a more constructive manner.

Why are you still voting yyotta after y’all’s back and forth?

[Green Crayons]

Maybe start with why you’re still voting yyotta

[Green Crayons]

Maybe start with why you aren’t voting anyone

[Green Crayons]

Live your best life.

[Green Crayons]

Why are you three voting MURDERKITTY though?

Hmm well this doesn't really make sense
UNVOTE:

I'm gunna do some rereading anyway

Was the thing that didn’t make sense your continued vote or the yyotta post you quoted?

[Green Crayons]

Well I'm explaining what I saw, but if you want other evidence I think the GC vote and FMPOV vote on me are further evidence.

the "explaining what you saw" is the primary thrust of your vote: that penguin is actively monitoring the thread but only occasionally contributing

y/n?


please explain how it is AI

[Green Crayons]

has anyone played with yyottacat before?

[Green Crayons]

so by mis-flip-y you mean like in line with her play this game?

[Green Crayons]

word.

[Green Crayons]

Upon pondering murdercat's attempt at a case and briefly skimming PP's meta, I conclude he is still dead null.

who is scum?

[Green Crayons]

also i realize i may be mis-interpreting 889. who is dead null: murdercat or penguin?

[Green Crayons]

-Dragons

yoooo if you want to catboi wagon it up, i'm game

[Green Crayons]

I continue to not be a fan of Yyotta's posting. It seems less like lost townie and more like scum trying to act like lost townie.

i'm not a fan of her posting either, but that potential strat seems a bit more advanced than yyotta could pull off, given prior games of similar play?

if yyotta = scum, i'm guessing this is just how she plays more so than an actual advanced strategy. but i still think it's bait material.

[Green Crayons]

boo

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Sorry :/

-Dumbass

so, why?

[Green Crayons]

I’m disappointed tbh gamma

[Green Crayons]

A NM vote rn is lazy for town or easy for scum.

I don’t hate that Gamma vote either.

[Green Crayons]

Want to hear infinity’s thoughts on gamma since he’s the one that originally told me my gamma vote was bad partially bc meta.

[Green Crayons]

I don't know what that means.

[Green Crayons]

Can you elaborate?

yyotta’s play here and prior games shows that she isn’t a very experienced player, so the notion that she’s an experienced player that is posing as a lost inexperienced play doesn’t seem to fit.

Also yyotta’s play that has triggered my “hmmm” senses aren’t so much her “I’m lost” posts but more her posts that don’t quite make sense—correlating suspicion/votes with things that aren’t particularly AI. That doesn’t strike me as something scum want to do (they want their votes to look sound).

Also, once yyotta explained why a wagon changed her mind on a player (murder I think, it was recent and I’d need to go back and look to verify but I’m on my phone), it actually made some sense from her POV which wasn’t readily apparent from her initial suspicion post. Which says to me that yyotta isn’t just lolrandoming her way through, which her posts might suggest (and lend to a “scum trying to pass as lost” theories), but is trying to actually hunt.

[Green Crayons]

Really glad murder finished that other game so he could have free time to continue to ignore this game so that the spotlight would start drifting away.

[Green Crayons]

I endorse 1090.

[Green Crayons]

If you look at how murdercat got through all of those games you'll see a very consistent trend of town!murdercat getting pushed early and/or often

but see:

And my issue is you can't say that he doesn't as scum so it's nai. Stop relying solely on meta for which you don't have an established comparison.

[Green Crayons]

my problem with murder isn't that he's being lazy

and i would love to lay out additional thoughts, but he's ghosted this thread since i tried to engage him, and i want to engage before i lay out thoughts

[Green Crayons]

if you're saying murder-town is stronger late game rather than early game


cool, i hope he's town and doesn't get eliminated


if you're saying murder-town is frequently pushed early in the game, and so because murder is being suspected in D1 (

not

early D1 mind you), we should give him the benefit of the doubt that he is therefore again town...........


well then you lost me

[Green Crayons]

we all want the same thing more-or-less

...to eliminate scum?

[Green Crayons]

the "explaining what you saw" is the primary thrust of your vote: that penguin is actively monitoring the thread but only occasionally contributing

y/n?


please explain how it is AI

It's AI because town is more likely to want to lead conversation whereas scum PP wants to sit back and add pressure to something townled. At least that was my sense from the last game we played together.

1. There's a difference between <actively monitoring but occasionally contributing> and <not leading conversation>. Your penguine reaction tests were aimed at the former suspicion. I don't see how you go from there to the latter suspicion.

2. Was penguin scum in your last game?

3. Why, in the first place, did you reaction test penguin for his active monitoring of the thread?

[Green Crayons]

Look at the game I linked to

I don't see what game you're referring to with penguin. I only see a link to the game where you said town threw.

[Green Crayons]

tbh I skimmed this Lilith/Gamma back and forth with one eye and nothing really grabbed me

If one of y’all think there’s a particularly AI post somewhere in all this back and forth, feel free to link it (and if you’ve already made this point I’d appreciate you just linking *that* post)

[Green Crayons]

Also I thought Lillith’s early game “all questions” strat was minor sus and her reaction to Auro was potential scum manufactured

But her engagement since the Auro reaction has been proactive and solid, and her explanation for her Auro reaction is out of game reasons that I as a policy accept as true and don’t question whether RL shit is lied about for a game

So what I’m saying is is that the GOT hydra is solidly on the town side of the line at this point, and I’m not particularly interested in trying to further sort them for D1 elim

[Green Crayons]

^^^ Auro’s posting with you has been weird (I didn’t think his posting when y’all first got at it was weird, and actually thought you were being weird, but ever since then his posting wrt is off) but that’s also something I don’t have the energy to suss out as AI or just personality plus I really like the other half of the hydra

[Green Crayons]

What’s a “UTR”?

[Green Crayons]

Look at the game I linked to

I don't see what game you're referring to with penguin. I only see a link to the game where you said town threw.

Help me out, brother. I want to sort you and this game is dragging.

[Green Crayons]

Universal town read

or sometimes under the radar, I probably shouldn't use it as an abbreviation

Roger that.

[Green Crayons]

which post was this in response to/who is "you"?

Was supposed to be responding to 1249

Spoiler: post & response

more votes on gamma please. or on dumb & dumber although I doubt I'd be able to push through a wagon on them today.

- Daenerys

Didn't you say to never flip skitter D1? Or was that someone else?

I was quoting mena when I said that. I said to never townread her D1. I'm kind of at the point where I think my read is strong enough that I might want to elim her D1, but since it seems like no one else is really considering them I don't really see the point.

- Daenerys

^^^ Auro’s posting with you has been weird (I didn’t think his posting when y’all first got at it was weird, and actually thought you were being weird, but ever since then his posting wrt is off) but that’s also something I don’t have the energy to suss out as AI or just personality plus I really like the other half of the hydra

[Green Crayons]

In my mind, someone who sits around the thread watching what is happening but only responding when called upon is scummy. Look at the game I linked to, PP waited for me to push Taylor and then immediately jumped on with me (I think Taylor was also scum that game but the point is that scum is usually more reactive than proactive).

I guess my final ask on this line of conversation is: does penguin not act like this when town?

[Green Crayons]

1. There's a difference between and . Your penguine reaction tests were aimed at the former suspicion. I don't see how you go from there to the latter suspicion.

2. Was penguin scum in your last game?

3. Why, in the first place, did you reaction test penguin for his active monitoring of the thread?

I'm genuinely not sure what the difference is. Like it is obvious that PP was not leading the conversation. So I tested if PP was just not around or was being selective in what to post.

PP has been scum in both my games with him since I've been back, though 1 didn't really count because it was a meme game.

In my mind, someone who sits around the thread watching what is happening but only responding when called upon is scummy. Look at the game I linked to, PP waited for me to push Taylor and then immediately jumped on with me (I think Taylor was also scum that game but the point is that scum is usually more reactive than proactive).

Look at the game I linked to

I don't see what game you're referring to with penguin. I only see a link to the game where you said town threw.

Help me out, brother. I want to sort you and this game is dragging.

I don't see what game you're referring to with penguin. I only see a link to the game where you said town threw.

I was referring to this game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84282

Here's an example of what I am talking about (presented without context, but you know you can go read it):

VOTE: gamer

VOTE: gamer

This one of a couple times where PP immediately sheeped me on a vote rather than pushing something himself.

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

So I'm not sure that "actively monitoring but not always participating" OR "not leading the conversation" are necessarily scum AI. My problem was that this was the main pillar of MC's penguin vote.

I do understand how MC is linking those two concepts, but I don't think they're necessarily coextensive (point here is it doesn't seem like MC is shifting his reasoning to suspect penguin as he gets pushed).

Given MC's history with scum!penguin, I think MC's association with this play as being scum AI isn't far fetched. scum!MC would have needed to have concocted the plan based on penguin's in-thread play, which isn't impossible but also consistent with town!MC.


(Aside: The secondary points of MC's penguin votes don't strike me as particularly compelling. That penguin changed his opinions on players without spelling it out in the thread, ~*~thus requiring mind reading, am I right penguin?~*~, is something I do and don't find AI. That penguin hasn't expressed ample TRs isn't AI, otherwise I think many players get those scum points.)

UNVOTE: MC

[Green Crayons]

Also I'm not really gonna defend against votes on my slot. If anyone has concerns they'd like me to address, just go ahead and ask me.

-Dumbass

What does this mean--you're not going to defend against people voting you? Leaving it to Skitter? Or just a mea culpa?

[Green Crayons]

if i were to vote rn, it'd be on gamma because of his interactions with GOT D&D + his insistence on defending the MC slot based on non-AI reasons

but i want to reread a little bit first before voting

[Green Crayons]

Neither, I am beginning to believe that defence against *votes* isn't useful
Also, zen playstyle, etc

I still don't understand what this means, especially with you emphasizing the "votes" portion. That you're not going to engage in naked votes? Or that you're also not going to engage in stated suspicions?

[Green Crayons]

I guess looking back at your original post I guess i understand but please spell it out for me bc I'm slow.

[Green Crayons]

i think i have a decently strong poe, and i'm kinda happy to wagon anybody outside of it

what's your poe?

[Green Crayons]

btw i don't think the D&D hydra exchange, which is eating up of pages of energy, is helpful.

if y'all are trying to make a case on the other hydra, please get to it. otherwise can we please move on?

[Green Crayons]

But the point is the fact I haven't been actively searching for scum is part of how I play these days, but atp I'm pissed off enough to switch to active mode.

sup, what happened with this?

[Green Crayons]

Tbh after answering salsabil's questions I also remembered feeling let down by murder's play, and the sense hasn't really changed
So like, I get why he's being wagoned a whole lot more, but I also recall he just doesn't start out that strong as town.

As such I'm going to try to hunt other scum this day phase

This is just the weirdest phrasing. it caught me the first time and caught my eye again.

[Green Crayons]

gc - MURDERKITTY, gamma
you/yyotta are my lower-tier townreads but i don't wnat to go there today

I sometimes get mafia terms backwards. So I might be misunderstanding. But you're saying you do not want to elim MC or Gamma, or they are the only two you are looking at? (Your original post said okay with everyone outside of POE, which made it sound like more than two...)

[Green Crayons]

To clarify, lilith: your case is Post 1278 on a gamma vote?

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: gamma

For the reasons I stated before as to why i'd like vote him; plus I'm skeptical of his ATE in responding to lilith. lilith's reasons in her case post are also not wrong.


I know i unvoted MC but I'm fine with his elim too. I unvoted him earlier after his explanation of his penguin vote to me, but there's also still his vast lack of activity (not just in frequency of posts, but in pushing any suspicion forward beyond penguin after getting wagoned).

[Green Crayons]

Everyone doubts D&D&D&D interactions of being TvS, but no one suspects it could be SvS

-Dumbass

you're the wooooooooooorst

[Green Crayons]

penguin is on the fucking case

[Green Crayons]

if only you had an avatar that's a penguin in a sherlock holmes outfit.

[Green Crayons]

plus I have unresolved concerns of my own from early on

can you please point me in the direction of these concerns?

I'm being lazy

[Green Crayons]

plus I have unresolved concerns of my own from early on

can you please point me in the direction of these concerns?

I'm being lazy

didn't like how he was talking about mech stuff early
it felt like he was crutching on that to get TRed

did you point this out earlier?

what mech stuff?

[Green Crayons]

[Green Crayons]

Got the MC elim tho.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: mena

[Green Crayons]

That makes even less sense :/

It was pretty clear no other CW was gaining traction, I don't get why gamma makes himself look awful trying to defend murder esp if he's bomb

I agree that MC flipping scum is better for Mena-town possibility than if MC was town (as Gamma's non-AI defense of MC-town would look like Gamma-scum TMI),

but Gamma's defense of MC was early-ish of the MC wagon so not necessarily just throwing himself in front of an inevitable elimination

and Gamma's defense of MC is probably objectively verifiable (e.g., MC gets better as town as the game goes on; MC has been pushed early as town before), which is a good scum argument because it's technically correct, but is a scum argument because it isn't AI for MC in this game

also you were there similarly supporting the anti-MC push--so, if you're town, then Gamma-scum isn't alone protecting MC-buddy

finally Gamma's change on MC is inconsistent with his play towards the MC slot given penguin's Post 1450

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Infinity 324

curious why infinity over Mena, who I think are the two initial candidates for today's elim (but not locked in to just these two for today)

[Green Crayons]

penguin came to the conclusion that gamma's progression actually made some sense

I missed this--where?

[Green Crayons]

What was gamma's partner doing if gamma was trying to defend murder then?

Also are you asking for a gamesolve to suspect Gamma for his interaction re MC?