Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

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Second.
VOTE: Starcrossed
~Ircher

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hi

Hi everyone!! I'm so excited to be here, we're all gonna do great! ^_^

kill this with fire

-totallynotircher

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Glad to see Batsunami rolled town this game!

Hi Tweety. Thoughts on the StarCrossed wagon?
~Ircher

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VOTE: Battle Mage

I think you're jumping the gun here. Battle Mage is in some ways very like mastina; they're both loud, both confident, and both have ample opportunity to be wrong. For an early game read, I don't think Battle Mage's take is bad (though I agree it raises some eyebrows).
~Ircher

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VOTE: Battle Mage

I think you're jumping the gun here. Battle Mage is in some ways very like mastina; they're both loud, both confident, and both have ample opportunity to be wrong. For an early game read, I don't think Battle Mage's take is bad (though I agree it raises some eyebrows).
~Ircher

if it raises eyebrows then what's the harm in pyro voting BM here? ilike what actually is the point of this post?

-shadow

Perhaps eyebrows isn't the best term here. What I mean is that the take, while reasonable, isn't necessarily a good take, as in it's likely that it's wrong or misinformed.

Hey, so like, I know you want to kill me with fire a little bit but I hope we can talk still!

What about it makes you raise your eyebrows? How many eyebrows?

No, that's my partner that wants to kill you.

First, I refer you to my above comment. Anyway, Battle Mage's post is incorrect in that it didn't really locktown Toogeloo the previous game (on the contrary, the majority of the town still wanted to lim that slot up until its death!) Thus, it doesn't logically follow that Toogeloo would repeat it here in an attempt to garner towncred.
~Ircher

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The first reply you gave that wasn't to me still feels a bit... wiggly. You definitely feel like you're playing with like... reasons in mind right now, like you want to accomplish something. I don't like it... ^^;

"Wiggly" is a very vague term, but you are right in that I didn't fully answer the question. I made my comment because as I stated, I thought the vote was premature.

i'm not really concerned with the precision of BM's take, but moreso why you felt the need to defend him over just one vote

It's not a defense. I am asking people to read holistically and to be careful not to jump to conclusions too soon. Nothing more, nothing less.
~Ircher

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Do you have any other reads right now?

Batsunami is likely town based on their enthusiasm here. They don't particularly like scum, and it feels pretty genuine enthusiasm. Aside from that, not really.

I think Sherlock and Watson are a bit quiet, but it could just be that they both aren't very active.

That's about it on reads for now.
~Ircher

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the heck are you all doing lol

my impressions:

my only experience with toogeloo was a game where he quickly and boldly tried to confirm himself as town by roleclaiming immediately with flavor and then sorta afked the rest of the game; maybe this is what that looks like when he doesn't have as much to work with but

I agree with pyro that not just typing deja vu is weird and indicative of preparation. I've been a fan of most of pyro's posts, but he broke my heart with this one

Hey, Titus, you promised you wouldn't out alts in the signup thread; does this extend to your scum PT?

gamma emerald hasn't cursed at all this game

everyone who voted for italiano is suspicious

also since ircher capitalizes everything and I mostly don't, I'm not going to sign any of my posts unless it's unclear that it's me

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Sam how are you?

Spoiler:

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batsunami confirmed town

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I didn't realize those benedict cumberpatch gifs were of sherlock holmes (or that he played him at all), I thought clidd just really liked the guy

s

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My read is losing strength over time, you need to towntell in the next 24 hours, Sam.

VOTE: clidd

i-is it working?

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nope you seem the same to me

even the 24 hours to seem town thing was a lot like the last time we played together

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I think gamma is either town or trying to appear town by taking a cue from our last interaction together

I didn't look into what is normal behavior for saudade, but just by vote alone I lean mafia

I want to shelve toogeloo for day 1

and I think titus messed up and confirmed batsunami town

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VOTE: ItalianoVD
I got a feeling this is scum

Why so? I didn't really get that impression; Italiano's actions to this point serve only to draw attention to himself.

Ircher feels very tonally different from his townmeta. No crank, no snark, all politics.

I would argue I'm snarkier when I am scum. See for instance the Dark Fairy Booneytoonz game.

His entrance feels off

I'm not convinced by this. His entrance feels a bit subdued, but simply being "off" is a rather vague and generic inference.

This time ... you're shitposting?

Dunnstral's post reads 100% serious to me. I don't see how you read it as fluffy.

Seriously? What's put you off of him?

Fey's posts seem a bit off. Like this one for instance; the amount of force expressed here seems disproportional to the magnitude of the crime.

I can be enthusiastic as scum as well and its not like you dont know that.

I am very much aware of that. In Pooky vs. Flavor Leaf, your enthusiasm was over the top. Hence, MURDERCAT caught you. Your enthusiasm here more closely resembles the dark fairy Booneytoonz game, where you were town. Do I believe you can fake it as scum? Absolutely. Do I think that's the case here? No, not right now.

Can you quote bits that you think are genuine for me? I just want to have a grasp on it. And I don't think they were too quiet, I mean. I guess I remember them because we had that same-brain thing going on... ^^;

(To this point, Sherlock and Watson had one post. You must be confusing them with someone else.)
Regarding the quotes,I cannot for the most part direct you to individual posts because it's a more holistic read versus a collection of individual post reads. I guess if I had to choose one, 23 strikes me as the most genuine and least likely of Noraa's posts to come from scum!Noraa.

I didn't connect the dots and realize war and peace was ircher. Like I knew ... kind of but then forgot.

How can you forget when 1) it's in my sig and 2) I sign each and every one of my posts?!?!

So Nancy is the good guy and Titus is the bad guy? So if I’m not a mason, how do I help Nancy?

How do you spell Lah-mist?
-Rogue 3

So far, you've made multiple fluff comments. I'll be waiting to see some actual content from you.

I think Italiano is being defended too hard for the content he's actually posted

I don't get that impression. I agree that Italiano's posts look bad on a glance, but when you look deeper, it really comes out to null. I think the people defending Italiano are arguing along those lines and that they seem louder than they actually are.

like there's attention and discussion on a few slots right now, and rather than commenting on any of that you push on italiano based on like... 3 posts? it looks like just arbitarily adding another slot to the lim pool, and you get the added bonus of not having to engage with the building case on ircher

This is a very good take. Tentatively town reading the Charlie and Snoopy slot.

I've been asking a ton of questions, which is what you accused him of. Why am I distinguished from that?

This is very shallow. Context matters a lot. That being said; I do think you are tonally off, and am unsure why no one else seems to thinks this way.

I've played enough games with Dunn to know that.

Okay, but doesn't this contradict your earlier assertion that Dunnstral mainly does this as scum?

It's too early to call anyone a "lurker"

Agreed. Certain slots may be "quiet", but the game had just started. You aren't lurking if you haven't posted within an hour of game start.

The more you ignore me, the more I'm going to think this, and I don't think you can fairly called me tunneled when you're not engaging with me on what was originally a simple question.

When someone stops engaging with you, it does no benefit to continue pressing the issue. It continues to get ignored or get people upset, and it needlessly clutters the thread.

At bottom of page 10. I don't expect to get much further tonight.
~War

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There are some players who I couldn't organize into a group. They simply fit as

unknown

.
...
Clidd.

why is clidd an unknown and not dominant?

VOTE: saudade

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War and Peace - any thoughts on my slot?

-Morty

not putting effort into looking into you yet

ircher might have a stance on you when he catches up but I am only familiar with mastina

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not putting effort into looking into you yet

Despite how I seemed to attempt to ram your wagon through, tried to get Saudade to vote you without mentioning that you were at E-2, and Mastina's absence thus far?

-Morty

ya idc

unless you're the one at -2 or nancy wants the day to end soon, my laziness reigns supreme

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If someone that is typically unlikeable and not charismatic

aw

I found him completely charming as town just a little while ago

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saudade is the lowest of low hanging fruit

confrontational, nearly nonsensical voting

I'm too cynical to not think of it as a strategy

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I don't want W&P to claim

remove us from vig targets thx

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Saudade is my perferred vig choice but still need claims from Gamma, W & P.

ircher just got on but still isn't caught up

I asked how much we should claim but he didn't respond yet, so I'll just say: not vanilla but nothing fancy

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Probably silly question but considering a lot of heat has been on you recently, why do you think you should be tr?

don't have to be, it'll become evident

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How is that thread up to 80 pages already??? Slow down please; I'm still on page 10.
~War

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Also, why exactly are we being wagoned and have been for the entire game? I understand my initial posting wasn't great, but it seems a bit insane we're still getting wagoned for that. Lack of presence is another issue, but quite frankly, that's more of a time thing than anything alignment indicative.

I should probably continue my catch up...
~War

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Would anyone else like to chime in on the points that I'm making right now?

I think I commented on this partially in my last post, but my impression is that Batsunami (more specifically Noraa) is sometimes more emotionally driven. Simply repeating the same question again and again doesn't help anyone; it just clutters the thread and makes people annoyed. You assert that this is potentially a scum tactic, but what does she gain here with this tactic? Do you think it's worth it for scum to make an enemy this early on?

It is easier to shut me off than it is to engage, and easy to drown out with other interactions if I am unwilling to keep calling her out on it.

On the contrary, you are drowning the thread by continuing to espouse this rather than letting it go.

Ircher feels very tonally different from his townmeta. No crank, no snark, all politics.

No quote walls...

At the time I was posting, there was less than 7 pages, and I was actually around at the beginning of the game. The quote walls serve as a mechanical tool to not spam the thread while giving people my thoughts on past stuff.

Also, please actually scumhunt and not make surface level observations like this one.

Also the title for this one is kinda out of order compared to other Versus games and it throws me for a loop somewhat

Yeah, I noticed that too. It took me a while (during signups) to realize the proper stump roles.

May I suggest ItalianoVD?

Awful suggestion. Their posting was purposefully flashy and showy. I'm not saying it couldn't come from scum, but that alone is hardly a good basis for a scum read.

Fey and Batsunami are both town probably. Batsunami for 275 particularly.

Why 275 specifically? I've seen Noraa invoke AtE as scum, so I don't think that 275 is particularly town indicative for them. (Other posts, sure, but not that one.)

No. I am not going to do that. I would rather you post while annoyed as that will give us a better grasp on how you're really feeling, as things such as that are harder for scum to fake, right?

This is really flawed logic. I've seen countless scum fake emotion and anger, especially recently. Some are admittedly better than others, but it's far from being harder to fake. (I should clarify though that I don't think she's faking it here. That still wouldn't, by itself, clear her, but it also doesn't necessarily mean she is scum.)

As much as I currently SR ircher, I agree with this.

This seems a bit contradictory; do you care to elaborate some?

And then sherlock is pushing him hard for some reason

This by the way is a good point; I find Sherlock's attention on Italiano very questionable.

Although that was almost 3 years ago, I remember he hates playing scum.

I still don't particularly like playing scum, but I would advise players to not use 3-year old meta... because it's 3-years old. I have more recent scum games as thoroughly documented on my wiki page.

nora, sam, pooky, auro, pooky, akarin, clidd, and dunn

You listed Pooky twice. Why?

To bottom of page 15. I realize I'm still very far behind. That's probably not changing until the weekend (Saturday specifically), so it would be great if we don't add 40 pages a day.
~War

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I’m currently null on him. He could definitely possibly one of Titus’ picks but so far, he’s not pinging me

(This is, for the most part, my current read on Dunnstral as well. I think the way he's been pushing my wagon is mostly fine, even if he is wrong.)

Ircher gets run up as town because he's antagonistic and snarky, and has controversial opinions. Here, in the brief posts he made he was being diplomatic and political. The toneshift is huge, like a gaping abyss waiting to plunge the world into darkness.

Aka buzzword soup. The only game as far as I'm aware that I've consistently been snarky and antagonistic is Booneytoonz XV where I was purposely doing such to try to avoid a night kill. I don't know where you got the impression that was the norm.

he was probably trying to play like town.

No. I was 100% playing towards a neutral survivor win con while trying to keep track of claims (due to role related reasons). It just so happened that my goals happened to overlap with the town.

Right you definitely don't know my alignment because we're totally not masons

Your posting feels off. Weren't you more serious in Booneytoonz XV?

Maybe S & W are town. Krazy seems pretty relaxed and he would be a lot more nervous if scum.

Shouldn't you be weary that Krazy may well be aware of that and thus trying to subvert your expectations?

This is actually more active posting from Dunn than im used to, reminds me of Vampire dance game where he was fairly present

I agree with the activity comment; what alignment was he in the game you referenced? (I could look it up, but I'm lazy.)

How is Dunn different here than in Pooky vs FL?

He seems a bit more active, but that probably isn't a scum tell by itself.

Dont end this day early.

(This most certainly didn't happen...)

i think its because they seemed a bit passive when they were first starting to post.

This is a very good and astute observation, one I noticed myself (hence the quietness comment).

Yikes this is a scumclaim from Noraa. Noraa doesn't wink.
- Rogue 3

???

Are you actually trying to solve? All your comments seem to be taking up space and not much more.

At bottom of page 18.
~War

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nightskip is clearly a town role, and it was just used on the worst possible day

don't get rattled by the battlemage thing, even though I didn't agree with noraa when proposed, replacing out is a big modifier on everyone's perception of someone and it was almost inevitable to end up that way

also pyro keeps posting in a way that is like someone sucked all of the charisma out of hectic, so I'll now refer to him as hectic b. rampage

and I maintain that saudade acting that way is a strategy, though I doubt it's sanctioned by titus and she probably chastised him

VOTE: saudade

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why would a town player inherently play in an immaculate way? I was trying to avoid going there cause I don't wanna start picking apart who is what role on what is effectively day 1

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Because it seems strange to think that it’s both a town role and it would be used so suboptimally and considering I listed your slot as a possible vig target, I find it curious that you’d think that, no?

I forgot we were a vig target lol

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Because it seems strange to think that it’s both a town role and it would be used so suboptimally and considering I listed your slot as a possible vig target, I find it curious that you’d think that, no?

I forgot we were a vig target lol

What, how. Nancy reposted the vig pool like 10 times. Had my javelin ready and everything.

In bold, bright font colour and huge font text to boot. Yes, I can easily understand how W & P might have missed it.

uh you both ok? I said forgot not missed it

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I haven't really paid attention to War and Peace, but Ircher does seem oddly less active than I've seen in the past, and the fact that they forgot they were big targets seem weird.

ircher has just not been here, even still he isn't caught up

as for me forgetting about target, I have been totally nonplussed this game + slept in between then and now; when nancy brought up us feeling pressure many pages earlier I just didn't wanna argue over something trivial

between not wanting to step on ircher's toes, nancy's toes, and missing 30 pages right away, I haven't felt really integrated into this game and was really hoping to get into the groove from night results

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You’re flat AF and

you’ve been stepping on Nancy the whole time

Why is this scummy?

because it's so extremely not that loops back around and becomes something that is

"why would mafia do that" is the most basic way of exploiting something

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because I need to defend gamma

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How does it help anyone to step in and question someone who is suspicious?

*gently pats you*

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that was sarcasm

I wasn't trying to cut gamma off at the pass, I just had my own opinion on why it was

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W n p whats your top townread and scumread
Just one of each please

batsunami, you

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I think voting for italiano was nonsensical since italiano is clearly playing a lot different than he does as mafia, not just you but sherlock & watson + gamma should know that as well

but primarily I think your over the top abrasiveness is deliberate to make yourself seem too bold to be mafia

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tone lol

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I think you both got annoyed each other but there should be no hard feelings at the end of the day. Plus, you're both town! So that's always a bonus.

This is stated a bit too matter-of-fact for my likes. It's potentially a perspective slip (but the actual odds of such are rather low).

Maybe the whole point of the game is that we have to figure out that Titus IS the Town stump, and we win by voting ND out?

There's way too much fluff coming from this slot and not enough content. Out of 12 or so posts, maybe only one (!) of them is tangentially related to actually scumhunting.

Is this Auro or Mastina?

It's Auro. Hi Nancy

-Morty

Would it be possible for y'all to add a signature mentioning which head is which (as well as who is in the hydra)? It makes it much easier to keep track of who said what.

Yeah, I trust the case on Ircher's tone around 3 pages ago: I haven't read any of Ircher's posts myself, but it seems legitimate.

-Morty

Let me get this straight. You are blindly trusting a case without looking at the evidence whatsoever. Why should anyone take stock in what you say if you aren't going to at least attempt to do your research?

i shall be signing all my posts as mitsuha!

~mitsuha

Same comment to your slot as to the Mortu slot: please add a signature with the hydra heads listed.

VOTE: Charlie and Snoopy

Let's eliminate scum ^

Interesting vote; why them?

Also I echo the scumread on Clidd

I find the scum reads on clidd a little concerning. I don't think one or two posts expressing a controversial opinion is in any way indicative of scum. I agree that scum reading Charlie and Snoopy is a take from left field, but we should be asking ourselves, "What do scum gain from behaving erratically?"

But this is something that I intend to go into details when I have access to my computer (I'm on mobile).

I will wait and see I suppose, but that's not the impression I got.

For Ircher, he’s a bit... meaner and cranky as town!

This is false, and anyone who has played a recent game with me (other than Booneytoonz XV) should be aware this is false.

Your reads seem to be going against what many people think right now.

Surface level take; why does this matter at the stage of the game it occurred? The follow up questions are fine but could be asked without this statement preceding them.

My gosh 25 pages??? I haven’t caught up. If I’m on the block gimme a minute.

Why is this your first reaction to 25 pages? That is, what makes you think you are on the chopping block? For the most part, people aren't talking about you on this page, so this level of paranoia seems ill placed.

Well I left at 3 pages and I believe I had two votes on me, not counting my own and now it’s 25 pages, things can happen quickly.

Yes, but generally, people being wagoned get talked about frequently. Your named popped up maybe once or twice in the last 3-5 pages and mostly in a positive light. Thus, again, it seems illogical that you would be so paranoid about being run up.

At bottom of page 25.
~War

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Nancy Drew vs. Titus Reads:

Now is a good time to give some reads, so here they are:

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
War and Peace (100%): Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)

Batsunami (+82%) - Like I previously explained, I think the level of excitement and energy from this slot is most likely town; It's neither over the top nor too subdued. There are other factors besides just that to the read as well. The way she posed her Dunnstral read for instance strikes me as likely a town level of conviction (even if I don't necessarily agree with it).

Charlie and Snoopy (+65%) - They've had several reasonable and good takes. I think they are thinking critically about what posts means rather than looking at the surface details.

Neutral Town

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read or Diffident Read)

Dunnstral (+35%) - He has had several good takes and has maintained an active thread presence. I'm actually a bit bothered by the thread presence; I don't recall him typically being this active.

Null

(0%-30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)

Pyro (-10%) - Most of his posts are fine, but there are a few that lightly ping me, mainly on a gut level. Their characterization of my play (and use of it to further the wagon on our slot) as town is also rather inaccurate and that pings me a bit as well.

ItalianoVD (-15%) - 611 really bothers me; I don't get why he is so paranoid of being wagoned.

Neutral Scum

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read or Diffident Read)

Sherlock and Watson (-35%) - I think the fluffing is really over the top, and they don't seem to be really scumhunting.

Rogue Squadron (-38%) - Too much fluff and filler from this slot. I remember Lunar being quite a bit quieter.

Fey (-40%) - Her posting is just feels really off in some way.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)

​​

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)

Spoiler: How to read this reads list

Players are placed in different sections based on my confidence in the read expressed as a percentage. A positive percentage indicates that I leans towards town on a player whereas a negative percentage indicates I lean towards scum on a player. Please note that the Null section contains both townreads and scumreads, and you must look a the sign of the percentage in parenthesis to determine which way I lean.

Confidence ratings are rough estimates (and somewhat arbitrary) and are relative to one another. In addition, they tend to be scored on a quadratic scale versus a linear scale; in other words, the difference between 0% and 30% tends to be less than the difference between 30% and 60%.

Disclaimer: These are my reads independent of my hydra partners.

If you aren't listed, you haven't done enough for me to develop a read on you/you've done nothing memorable in the first 25 pages.
~War

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hi good morning, jeez I didn't even get to read the thread yet and y'all are at our throats

we're a gunsmith

I had a burst of inspiration when I was laying in bed and I'm gonna go do that now

[War and Peace]

ircher

Spoiler:

you're doing amazing sweetie

So anyway, ever since my first game here I've had this idea that I've been too lazy to ever do. I realized though that this game is perfect for it, and it'll take a lot less work than normal. So I now present to you:

The Titus Heatmap

All Interactions:


Neutral Interactions:


Positive Interactions:


Negative Interactions:


Obviously not only are the positive/neutral/negatives subjective ('all' may be most useful), but how this should be interpreted in general is also subjective. I think Batsunami and Battle Mage being confirmed town are excellent anchors and reference points for everything else though. Titus may be really smart, but all humans give away more of their thoughts than they realize in even the smallest interactions (or lack thereof).

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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
you didn't think to claim something so good when you were a 1/2 vig target yesterday

I didn't think we'd actually be a target, I thought that was just to not directly telegraph plans (we claimed power role lol)

that's why it was so forgettable

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how can you subjectively think an interaction you with titus was scummy when you know you're town
TWO of them

wat

negative doesn't mean "scummy" it means titus had something negative to say

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I think given how few positive ones there are, and who they directed at, it's +town for toogeloo

I'm not sure about negatives yet since saudade is up there lol

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peace what do you mean you've always wanted to do this
you mean look at a flip scum's interactions?
isn't this game worse for it because a flipped scum is trying to look towny while titus knows everyone knows she's scum

I always wanted to do a heatmap of every single player's interactions on day 1, to see who is avoiding who or avoiding praise/overly criticizing etc., but that took over an hour to make for just 1 person so yeah that was never happening lol

this game is unique cause we have a confirmed mafia player day 1

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W+P I like the effort put into that. I don't know how it reflects how you're reading everyone though. Care to share?

what saudade is heavily modifies everything

we can see that batsunami is the most interacted and most likely to be town of the living, with saudade in second place (but half), toogeloo 1 behind, and then us in a 4-way tie with a confirmed town/pyrolaf/morty&rick

then as said above toogeloo is more likely town from the positive interaction

because we were forced to claim I doubt we can confirm saudade ever, but it really could be as simple as everyone with 4+ interactions being town

it should be most useful to nancy who can contrast her own info against it

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Sherlock is likely trolling here. Olaf is definitely NOT any permabanned user.

...yet

my heart grew 3 sizes this day

why is your slot so appealing no matter who is in it

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don't know how ircher feels but I'm strongly opposed to a gamma wagon today

I've played with him a bunch now, I think 4 mafia/1 town, and this is a heck of a lot closer to town

the only thing he has posted that has gone outside the safe range for me has been the last few posts, but that's not enough

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War & Peace scum??

Why the question marks? They feel really off. If your read on us is based on other people's reads, then fine, but don't act like you're unsure when in reality, you're just sheeping a read.

why does Mastina thinking the game was going for 3 days already make her locktown?

I don't think anyone locktowned her for that. That said, scum!mastina would have buddies in mafia chat (to give her an overview of the situation) and would be thus less likely to make such a mistake as scum.

Wait, I thought we were friends are we not?

"Wait, I thought that being friends means you can't scumread me!" Since when has this been a true statement? (The answer is never.) I don't understand why you would expect to be a townread at that stage in the game when your three posts to that post consisted of a self vote, a subdued "Hello" response, and a post where you show you haven't read the setup rules. While these aren't necessarily scum indicative, do you really expect people to remove you from their poe at this stage in the game?

He caught that.

(In reference to 157 It would be great if you explain why you were doing that.

For future reference, Alisae updated the VC around #662 or so, it was blank before that.

There continues to be way too much fluff from this slot. Fluff is fine if it's accompanied by content. Yours isn't.

there's only an 11% chance italiano is scum

I agree his draft chances are low, but the way he's playing is off. As in, it is much too worried about how he's being perceived if he is truly town.

p.s. there's a chance that pyro is actually more town than the literal masons this game lmao

This doesn't really make sense. Either a.) you mean at this point in the game (where the masons are not yet outted), in which case this is hardly surprising (assuming ofc that Pyro isn't a mason here) or b) you are referring to the scenario where we know who the masons are, in which case it's contradictory because by the definition of mason (in non-bastard games), a mason is mod confirmed town (and provably so with a town stump to give 100% confidence), so you can't be "more confident" in a non-mason than a mason.

At bottom of page 28. Yes, I didn't read very much tonight--I didn't get a lot of time to. I hope to read a more substantial number of pages tomorrow (maybe get to page 50... that isn't a promise that I'll reach 50.)
~War

[War and Peace]

my take on clidd:

I think we had a misunderstanding when we first interacted. It seemed like he thought my vote on him was serious, cause he expected me to realize he was playing abnormally. If he is playing abnormally, I don't know in what way. Last game I played I thought he was mafia even after being copped lol. To me his personality is the same though.

[War and Peace]

Sure. But I'd like people to take stances on it anyway.

- 1-shot Jester Morty

You aren't really taking a stance if you are sheeping the consensus. You are not encouraging useful behavior.

Should people be trying to figure out alternates? I mean isn’t that a no-no or is this a joke?

Publicly outting someone else's alt should be against the rules. Alt hunting in generally I think shouldn't be encouraged because presumably, the player using the alt doesn't want you to know their main, and people should respect that. (The only legitimate reasons for wanting to know the main of an alt are 1) staff acting in official capacity as moderators (e.g.: to make sure people aren't evading bans) and 2) for the enforcement of blacklists. The second though is remedied by not having a blacklist; of course, that's not always possible.

Umm not sure yet, it’s tough right for me with the hydras and the alternates, etc., lol.

Seriously, why is this so confusing for you? You don't

have

to know the mains to read a player. It can help, but it's not a requirement.

Battle Mage was trying to dismantle it though

-Morty

His townread on me is hardly an attempt to dismantle the wagon. This is a huge stretch.

Don't tell me what's not happening when we have an entire week of gameplay

I think Saudade is being too confrontational to be scum.

As a matter of fact
VOTE: Saudade

Don’t @ me bruh.

Bad vote. Do you really think scum!Saudade would be so controversial and confident? It's not impossible, but it also doesn't seem particularly likely.

oh ok, nevermind. if this is the case, i am still happy with this scumread!

~mitsuha

Pyro has a rather warped meta read of me. I would encourage you to not trust their description.

Also can someone agree that italians overreaction to my vote is a bit sus

What overreaction? Voting you as OMGUS isn't an overreaction.

uhm and dont ask for who the ?????? is because I won't be telling anyone today.

It's no longer day 1, so I want to know who the ??? read is.

Wait no I want to try a clidd wagon

VOTE: charlie and snoopy

-S

Huh? You didn't vote for clidd here...

Fey are you scum trying to pocket Pyro

{REDACTED}

Hey! i'm Saraharas.

Are you a new player or an alt? My read on you is somewhat dependent on the answer.

On the chance you're not just playing along, refer to the moderator's general rules - Nancy's the town stump.

-Morty

I don't like this post. I think it's previous obvious that Nancy's the town stump, and I also think it's obvious that Pyro knows such. This post just seems like an attempt to be actually doing something useful when in reality, it's just clutter. Granted, at least 70% of the thread is clutter, so it's very rough to see the scum's clutter over the town's clutter.

At bottom of page 35. I'll read more later tonight.
~War

[War and Peace]

Charlie and Snoopy requested replacement

*snip*

I don't like this post; post by post analyses of entire ISOs are a huge waste of time, generslly inconclusive, and a huge waste of vertical space too. They also make great busywork for scum. The fact that so many of your comments are "Null" shows how ineffective this scumhunting technique is. Also, I wouldn't guess the conclusion Pyro came to based on what he said about the individual posts. Again, it's all effort and no subsistence.

Ircher do you think Titus like, actually picks Gamma though

I think it's about the same likelihood that my slot gets picked, /maybe/ a slightly lower chance. Gamma did well enough in Boonetoonz XV.

wait that wall was a towncase by the end?

-S

That wall wasn't mine.

This proves my point exactly. Pyro's post is a bunch of busywork, and it doesn't even lend itself to an obvious conclusion.

YOU'RE NOT IRCHER, YOU'RE PYRO

GAAAAH

-S

Just so you know, I don't do post by post analyses of entire ISOs. I did at one point many years ago, but I don't anymore for precisely the reasons I mentioned above.

So... pretty much just a metric ton of noise today?

Yeah, that's a pretty good description of the last several pages.

vote marcista

I don't recall you ever explaining why you were so interested in wagoning charlie and snoopy. Please explain.

Massive fans of both of these players. Love the fact that Ircher can blow the game up with some catchup walls if required to derail whatever the current thread discussion is.

Quick question Pyro: have you ever been in a game with me where I was scum (excluding marathons)?

I'm legit begging here. Can we please not do 30+ pages a day?

It'll never happen, not in the first few days of a large theme.

I'm not Ircher.

You know, saying it once is enough. You don't have to repeat it ten times. (Also, it's quite clear what happened, so...)

I was expecting them to engage with me in the impression I mentioned, but apparently both members of the hydra are busy.

I mean, how much time has passed since your initial request or whatever? 1 hour? 2 hours? 4 hours? You can't expect people to be always present, especially not when the thread is spammed to oblivion.

What if the spammy friendposts are scumhunting?

It's not impossible, but it's probably harder to guage/easier for scum to fake than other stuff.

I didn't look into what is normal behavior for saudade, but just by vote alone I lean mafia

(I don't agree with this read. Saudade is Saudade, and this is unfortunately normal behavior from Saudade.)

I think Titus is trying to adversely affect my morale as well as the townier slots in this game. I read her post to Bats as an attempt to rile Noraa up. She’s obviously hoping to get those slots worked up, so they’ll hopefully possibly mason slip. She obviously has no clue who my masons are or she would have already said so.

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't read into Titus's actions too much.

I can't tell if I'm right or wrong if they don't post. The silence will not make me reevaluate.

Just be patient. It's been only an hour since your last remark on the subject.

Charlie and Snoopy requested replacement

This is very disappointing.

To bottom of page 40. Might be able to read another 5 pages tonight.
~War

[War and Peace]

Also, I'll solve with any of my townreads too! Not the scum ones though

But what if your reads are wrong?

Reciting reads around #46. It's not anything remarkable really, but it does stand out compared to everyone else who posted up until this point.

Having super early reads isn't a town tell by any means. Scum can easily fake reads that early in the game. Also, a little tip: you can use

Code: Select all

[post=Number]Label[/post]

to link to posts, like this (which links to the post I'm quoting). It's super handy for other people to follow your logic.

Not a fan of your wall.

Nothing you said reflected me as genuine or difficult to manufacture, but I’ll wait since you said it’s not over.

You really feel like your pushing an agenda this game. Shouldn't the burden of proof (of their scumminess) be on you rather than the other way around (proving their innocence)?

Were did Batsunami go?

Did they really leave around that time? Okay, they had a post at 132 and several more on page 6. And 7. And page 8. I didn't bother checking the rest, but this is a really bizarre take. Keep in mind, those pages formed in within like 20-30 minutes. Oh I see... You meant from their 54 to 132. You're still overreading into things here; those only occur an hour a part; maybe they had dinner or something at that time.

#160 War and Peace these are butter knife opinions. You're not cutting into the game with them.

Reads take tome to form. 2 or so hours isn't enough to get a good gauge of most slots. Your expectations are unreasonably high.

#238 Alright so this is two instances now of Dunnstral calling out what he sees, but not what comes of it. Is this behavior telling? Maybe batsunami would have something to say.

I really wish you post linked...

Anyway, I don't see your concern. Can you elaborate?

Wouldn't lim D1:
Dunnstral, Batsunami,

Rogue Squadron

, Gamma

Uh no. Akarin's posts are fine, but Rogue's posts were all fluff and filler and not a lick of content. I would not put them in a "wouldn't lim D1" category for that reason alone.

In the sense that I understand whether it makes sense for person x to suspect me based on impression y and if that makes person x town or not.

No, this is just applying ridiculous standards. People cannot read your mine, which is what this would require to have reasonable accuracy.

Pooky is elitelling big time

I agree Pooky isn't posting that much, but I'm not sure it's concerning given the speed of the thread.

#487 and other consecutive posts on this page Morty and Rick don't post like it's RVS when RVS has already past. I'm not trying to be a stickler, I love fun as well but just maybe laying it on too thick.

You call this out, but you don't call out all the other fluff in the thread? Really?

sudden appearance and disappearance of players.

The thread can give this impression at the rate it moves. It's not as sudden as it seems, and you can't expect people to be around all the time.

My own thoughts are more important than the post itself, so I never bother with linking. This will all lead to a conclusion anyways

No. It may be for yourself, but not for others, and the entire point of posting is for others.

Remember: It's not about the right answer, but clearly explaining how you arrived at it. Use post links so others can check your work and decide if they agree, disagree, or something in-between.

To bottom of page 42. 42 honestly took longer than I would've liked to get through. Minor reads update: Suffering makes the Charlie and Snoopie slot drop quite a bit in my reads.
~War

[War and Peace]

did someone say totus?

Spoiler:

Spoiler: bonus

[War and Peace]

Where'd Gamma go?

People seriously need to stop with these kinds of takes. The first 40 pages occurred in less than 24 hours. Some people only post during certain times of the day because that's the only time they have.

Also, side note: I just noticed your username is "5uffering" and not "Suffering", and that really bugs me.

The reasoning given here is too much and too confident.

Charlie and Snoopie's post doesn't come across this way to me.I also think some people are more naturally inclined to expressing reads confidently, and you aren't accounting for that here.

In all games, I like to visualize it like a room The vs. Format could be interpreted like a party. There is loud music, fun and games. Maybe some murder thrown in there too. Like all parties, the density of the room can be separated. Here is how I interpret the room.

I'll be quite honest; I don't think most scum would go to the effort of posting and analyzing this set of images as 5uffering does.

Finally, you have Coasting. These are players who are not really doing anything worthwhile.

Correction: These are people who are being drowned out by the thread. "Coasting" is such an awful name especially when you consider that at the time you wrote this, only about 24-32 hours since game start had occurred.

Coasting players are:
Gamma Emerald, Toogeloo, Battle Mage, War and Peace, Starcrossed

I would very much lim anyone who is coasting.
My preference: Battle Mage > Starcrossed > Toogeloo > War and Peace.

Where'd Gamma go?

{REDACTED}

i just looked through this game and think you ring quite similar actually. what, in your opinion, is the difference between this game and that game?

Any differences would overall have to be subtle. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I already explained that the dark fairy game was NOT a town game, and my overall tone should be clearly different from my tone this game.

I thought SaraharaS was alt slipping from the War and Peace hydra

?????????????? What would make you think that?

War and Peace - any thoughts on my slot?

-Morty

Too early to tell, but I'm not super impressed with your slot. You don't seem very proactive this game.

If it is scummy, I invite them to explain or case me.

No, this is a waste of time. The explanation is exactly as stated: your posts feel off; therefore, you feel scummy. Reads like that aren't things that require explanations nor are they things that tend to lend themselves to explanations.

Star is off.

Tbh, I get the feeling Starcrossed is purposely murking things up. Take that as you will.

You seem to think I am annoyed. I am laughing. You're spamming while giving no guidance, even after me telling you spam is bad.

It's WIFOM and all, but quite frankly, Titus was right here. It is better to compose multiple thoughts into a single post rather than post them individually. Hence why I catch up the way I do.

Despite how 1) I seemed to attempt to ram your wagon through, 2) tried to get Saudade to vote you without mentioning that you were at E-2, and 3) Mastina's absence thus far?

1:) Yes, I do think that looks bad, but overall, it's not substantial enough to conclude you are scum.
2.) Same comment as above. Trying to get other people to follow your lead is somewhat normal behavior tbh.
3.) This is easily explained by the fact that the game just started (<48 hours passed) and mastina initially had no internet access when it did start.

was there any reason you were late to this game while you posted in others?

I honestly think Pooky's active lurking, but it's hard to tell whether that's scum indicative. I can see other reasons why Pooky might decide to do that.

At bottom of page 45.
~War

[War and Peace]

It is 100% effective and a tell that has never in the history of MS failed me before.

I stopped paying attention after the words 100% effective. There's no such thing as a 100% effective tell, and you should know that.

It's day 1 and your top tR is telling you that they have caught many scum using a specific meta tell. Believe in her.

Even if I town read you, that doesn't mean I necessarily trust your reads.

Even if the sample size is small, I am certain it is correct because all of my other meta tells have small sample sizes and have failed before.

This is such a fallacious argument that it pretty much has to come from town.

Some questions if it's worth your time.

I think 5uffering asks too many questions in this post. It gives off the impression of scum looking busy.

I found Ircher particularly scummy but I ended up realizing that if Ircher was town, the SRs fell in place really interestingly nicely. And because ircher hasn't pinged me too hard yet, I'm trying to believe in a ircher TR atm.

I do find it strange that you are willing to bank so many of your reads on us being town despite the fact that you individually scumread me (even if after applying mitigsting factors, it comes to a town read). It is like building a house without a sturdy foundation, ever so waiting to collapse.

I'll bite

VOTE: Battle Mage

-S

I'll bite

VOTE: Battle Mage

-S

VOTE: Battle Mage

I’ll bite too, really hard!!

Thanks for sheeping me, everyone.

-Morty

I get the credit. Btw did I even vote for BM? Cant remember but for good measure
VOTE: BM

VOTE: Battle Mage

There's definitely at least one scum amongst these votes. I'm leaning towards Fey based on my individual reads. Batsunami is probably town, so scum are amongst the others.

At bottom of page 48. Didn't reach 50 over the weekend, oh well...
~War

[War and Peace]

You got lolhammered, sorry about that, were you town?

-Morty

This is super manipulative. I think it's more likely to come from scum.

this is such a scum claim
where does this confidence come from

This is an awful take from Saudade. He should know from experience that townies can be very overconfident on reads.

You really think I picked someone who hates scum?

It's not impossible.

BM last time got miselimed for being absent, being scummy, he argued more, can't exactly remember all the details but he was met with suspicion pretty early and then mastina cased him into the grave.

Only one of those reasons are true and barely so. The rest was pure confirmation bias; Battle Mage should not have been limmed that game, at least not when Battle Mage was.

Wasn't aimed just towards you really

You should practice what you preach. I'm not sure if this hypocrisy is scum indicative though.

War and Peace (Ircher + samantha97)
Sherlock and Watson (Krazy + PenguinPower)
Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)
Gamma Emerald
Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)
Dunnstral
Battle Mage

Why are we at the top of the list? If I was drafting, I would not pick my slot. I get the impression people think I'm better at scum than I actually am.

In theory this feels towny to me and I think they do err towards town but something right now is pinging me about this, I think it is how they’re strong arming everyone and then saying they won’t get flipped? Even if Battle Mage is town. It is a LOT of confidence and I’m unsure if either of these players are ever like this...

This is super wishy-washy and doesn't really say anything conclusive.

why were people saying BM was hammered

Only Morty said that, and they said that simply to be manipulative and not because there was an actual hammer.

Oh no... Gamma could be scum too

On what basis? Being busy in real life....?

are you going to enlighten me what's that tell you're so confident of is or am I just going to vote you and tab out for the week

Someone isn't reading... Unfortunately, I kind of expect this from Saudade, so it isn't really scummy for him.

i would say, objectively, that's a bad argument which is disproven by your own meta on me.

Someone remind me, we limmed this because _______?
Like I'm gonna be honest: I know hindsight is 20/20, but if you took the time to read Battle Mage's posts and the case made against him, this is more or less a repeat of what happened in Pooky vs. Flavor Leaf. The reasons are different, sure, but the case is even more logically flawed than they were in the Pooky v. FL game, and Battle Mage really reads as genuine and such here.

At bottom of page 55. This thread is a slog.
~War

[War and Peace]

I've taken a sort of laissez faire attitude here, feeling a lot closer to a spectator than a player, and I realize it's not my argument to jump into, but: the core of the problem is instigating phrases that I'm not sure you are aware are instigating when you write them (and possibly 'needing the last word')

e.g.

Spoiler:

you will probably make some comment about it being a chore to play with me or something

So thanks for forcing me

already explained to you ad nauseum - which you continue to ignore for some reason

you apparently are this grossly insensitive to my feelings in addition to egregiously misunderstanding me but it looks like nothing I’m saying will ever get through to you

upset at people who are shitting on me

I intend for that to purely be constructive and not a personal attack.

as for the current state of the game itself, I agree with sherlock/toogeloo/5uffering that we desperately need a night phase

despite that, and even though I can't speak for ircher, I personally am never going to vote for gamma or italiano today even if you decide on them, as I don't believe they adapted so much as mafia in such a short period of time

so yeah I hope you reconsider on deciding soon regardless of who it is, because this gamestate is super unhealthy

[War and Peace]

Well now that we know who we are eliminating today, lets talk about other people

Idk, this post feels a little off. Like, no one had said the lim was locked in; in fact, on the contrary, Nancy was more or less still vetoing the lim. Thus, it's nonsensical to me that Saudade decided that the lim was already decided.

The only experience I have with scum!BM was in a newbie game where he played in a super inactive/scummy way, it was not difficult to catch him. I don't think he's a deepwolf when he's scum, unless his scumgame has improved since then or if that particular game was a point off the curve.

I am still inclined to think that he is town here.

This is a relatively good post from clidd. It shows clear and logical thinking, appropriate use of past experience, and a reasonable conclusion. I think scum would be more likely to try to shove this lim through.

I’m just nosy! ^_^

Or... You're just scum acting.

He’s being pretty political,

This is like the first game where I've seen people use the term "political" describe someone's play. I really do hope it drops out of the mafia lexicon because it is a meaningless buzzword. I also disagree that Gamma is acting in the interest of pleasing others rather than finding scum. More likely, he's being drowned by thread volume and is simply trying to find some space to breathe.

Tbh I was expecting more ridicule and frustration from Battle Mage

Ridicule??? He seems frustrated enough to me. I think he did temper it some; probably to avoid transgressing site rules, but he has repeatedly stated how ridiculous the case was on his slot.

At bottom of page 60. I'm not reading more tonight. The pages can be summed up as Noraa repeatedly pushing the Battle Mage lim on one of the most logically invalid and unsound cases I have ever seen.
~War

[War and Peace]

VOTE: 5uffering

[War and Peace]

You're not sure who you voted like 3 posts ago...?

-S

This pings me a little considering that Battle Mage's last vote was not three posts ago nor did it seem all that close to this post.

im working my way through backwards. i see most people who voted me are probtown, but assume there must be 1-2 scum in there! sherlock's was the first bad vote i saw.

{REDACTED}

VOTE: Saudade

Whatever your alignment, you’re acting antitown.

That's just Saudade. Policy lims aren't any good anyway, but I kinda think Saudade is town here. I just feel scum would be slightly less antagonistic around the town stump.

At bottom of page 62. Once again, I didn't read much. I'm finding the thread s bit of a slog and not because there's a lot of things to comment on but because a lot is getting rehashed ad nauseum. I will try to read a more substantial amount tomorrow evening (maybe get to 70).
~War

[War and Peace]

You ignoring that is concerning.

It's only concerning if you look at it from a "my word is law" standpoint. In that case, Saudade is clearly not paying you much attention, so you cannot trust them to follow your directions. However, from an alignment standpoint, it's not all that concerning.

Typically

, town would be more likely to follow your instructions while scum would renegade; however, in the specific case of Saudade, it's a lot murkier because they do this as either alignment. Furthermore, as I've said previously, I think scum!Saudade would be at least a little less antagonistic either in an attempt to stay on your good side or because he would be directed to do so by his scum mates, so the Saudade slot is probably town.

I also feel like I should UNVOTE: VOTE: Battle Mage because accusing me of distracting you from answering your question

Weren't you already on the wagon? Like, what was the purpose of this post?

One scum ate's , the other posts analytical analysis and the 3rd coasts and afks for the most part of the game

Honestly, I bet that this is a good description of what has happened so far this game. It seems pretty apt.

nagl

nagl? Not sure I've seen that before.

Scumlean
Gamma Emerald
Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)
Pyro

Likely Scum
Toogeloo
Sherlock and Watson (Krazy + PenguinPower)

{REDACTED}

...i'll be back same time tomorrow for the re-run of today's festivities is everyone just desperate to be a hero and nail BM-scum?

It seems so. I think Sherlock's positioning around this wagon is very sketchy. That combined with their excessive fluff earlier doesn't make me feel good about the slot. I get the feeling they are trying to win people over by sheer posting volume rather than by doing actual scumhunting. That is, they want to look like they are doing stuff, but in reality, they are doing nothing notable.

VOTE: Saudade
I don't trust his ass at all rn

This feels too reactionary... for a lack of a better description. Sure, I wouldn't necessarily trust Saudade either, but what specifically did you think come from scum!Saudade?

There is so much resistance to this wagon and he seems so so towny. Those are clear scum indicators.

Where? Nancy is like the only one resisting the Battle Mage wagon. Others may be ambivalent, but no one is actively pushing a counterwagon. Also, "Too townie to be town" is as much a fallacy as "too scummy to be scum."

Honestly, the tone shift is really noticeable

At least for me, you've established you can't read tone super well, so I'm not taking much stock in this comment. There are also so many lurking variables you are completely ignoring here that could explain the tone shift. Not the least of which is getting mislimmed in the past versus game...

Battle Mage has requested replacement

Zzz... Okay, maybe THIS is why Battle Mage was limmed. It would make sense anyway, but the reasons used to propel the wagon (and pretty much the sole content of the like last ten pages) were really awful, so this really shouldn't have come to this point.

his entire approach to solving

I mean, y'all didn't give him room to solve. Y'all instead repeatedly gave the same arguments again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. Like, you seem really set on scum reading Battle Mage from the offset, and your progression doesn't feel very fair and natural.

I felt their frustration regardless and I just want to give the next person a chance. We can come back to the slot at any time.

5uffering's posting is starting to look town again. scum!5uffering would be better off just letting the Battle Mage lim happen rather than trying to derail it.

i generally don't like this as a reason for a scumread. it's very if you aren't [this amount of town], you aren't town, when there's many other factors. which one of our heads are you expecting this from?

I think some level of burden of proficiency is appropriate, though it varies widely by person and isn't a super accurate way to read people.

Also, I get the general impression your slot is just floating by... Neither of you seem to be doing much at all; y'all are doing the bare minimum to remain in the game. Idk, but that doesn't make me feel great about your slot.

At bottom of page 70.
~War

[War and Peace]

hiiiii dkkoba

REK does not have a gun

also wow that was a good vig

[War and Peace]

Who do you think are scum?

gotta be honest I don't even remember anything other than a few parts of this game lol

I need to reread tomorrow (why does day always start at night)

[War and Peace]

i think its odd that scum didnt kill an investigative that could catch one of their own yknow.

we were leashed to a target and pretty sure they knew going in REK wasn't mafia lol

but yeah they should have put more weight on clearing someone as town

[War and Peace]

VOTE: WnP anyways a follow the cop dynamic shouldnt exist here since a rolestopper is essentially a doc and the gunsmith finds innos

are you still drunk

[War and Peace]

we're a 3rd party gunsmith

[War and Peace]

y'all need sleep more than I do

[War and Peace]

W & P and Gamma claim.

The harm's already been done, but asking for like 5 claims on day 1 when none of those players were close to a lim seems like a bad strategy.

they feel like it can only happen with their blessing. I see this game as everyone is just pawns, and we have no real say in anything. We just do as our stumps want us to.

Eh, it's somewhere in-between. We have some agency, but the stump has the final say. I don't think this attitude of not caring is correct; I think it's important that people make their opinions known so that the stump can make an educated, well-informed decision. It's also important though that people know when to stop shouting the same argument again and again.

Saudade tried to drive elims on my trs and tried to undermine me.

Yes, but that's just how Saudade rolls. It's not really scum-indicative at the point in time that it happened.

Probably silly question but considering a lot of heat has been on you recently, why do you think you should be tr?

Way late (and it wasn't really addressed to me), but my two cents: I don't expect us to be widely townread, but when we remain one of the top wagons throughout the day, it makes one wonder. Are scum letting us stay up in the air to keep us as a potential mislim? Also, the other factor here is game speed and dynamics. Anyone who legitimately thinks they can get a solid read on me in 24 hours is overconfident. Reads can and should take time to form, and you cannot read me off of like 4-5 posts made early Day 1.

Titus

I'm sure you did this intentionally, but why? What purpose did this post serve? You yourself state that the thread is moving at a pace too fast; I think it would be better not to contribute to it with posts that serve no purpose.

My vote is Nancy's today. I have no right to it with as little contributions I've made.

I'm not really a fan of you abdicating responsibility for your vote here. Like, given the game's pace, it kind of makes sense, but at the same time, it's important you form your own reads because that's what is going to differentiate town from scum. Those who are scumhunting are town; those who do not are scum.

?????

Why?

(In reference to 1902): It makes sense to me. Toogeloo could be town, but they are acting in a way that greatly favors scum (namely, abdicating responsibility for their actions). It's probably too early to say for sure, but their general trajectory so far this game isn't really town indicative imo.

@Pyro: I'm only here for a little bit, but do you want to solve anything...? ^^; I feel like we're all just focusing on the same slot, which isn't bad, but it's only one member of the team and I wanna find more!

Kinda off-topic, but between your avatar and your posting style, I really get the impression you are being super manipulative.

I think Dunn just might have townslipped

Absolutely not. That is way too easy for scum to do, and even if it wasn't easy to fake, it'ssomething that scum are just as likely to observe as town. There is no such thing as a "town slip".

They’re claim also seemed kind of sus. Wtf kind of claim is not vanilla?

Exactly what it says. Not vanilla, as in we have a power role. I legitimately don't see why that'd be suspicious.

not sure why everyone changed there/started saying they were towny

Only Batsunami and Battle Mage have expressed any reservation. We are continuously being brought back into the spotlight, and I have a feeling that it's scum doing that.

In #78 W+P is already starting to defend BM unprompted.

Yes because I didn't want a repeat of Pooky v. Flavor Leaf where people were quick to jump on Battle Mage for trivial things... oh look, guess what happened this game?

It's awkward once you take it into account, and what's more even awkward is this:

Battle Mage's read shift is awkward perhaps, but when you think about it, it makes sense to be cautious. I don't see it so much as a town-read as a "town read for day 1"; Battle Mage is somewhat aware of my meta and knows my early game isn't the strongest. Thus, I see it as Battle Mage giving my slot more time so he can make an informed decision.

To end of day 1.
~War

[War and Peace]

VOTE: DkKoba

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oh wait nvm yeah its scum indicative for WnP cuz scum chose to leave them alive with a confirmed rolestopper rather than remove the investigative that can actively get guilties on them.

can we? we are bound to what nancy says unless we wanna go rogue, which is itself suicide

also we've socially been on the outs the entire game, we even had the honor of being the first wagon~; why waste a nightkill on us when you can just wifom (did I use this right I have no idea what this stands for lol) kill us during the day

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the number of claimed vanilla in a game with powerful roles like nightskipper and 2 vigs (a dayvig no less) is interesting

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Koba to find goons because some vts have to be lying

I could be wrong but that's not how the role works if I understand it correctly

Vanilla Cop is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. When the role is called "Vanilla Cop", Vanilla Townies, Mafia Goons, and Serial Killers with no additional powers return a "Vanilla" result, while all other roles return "not Vanilla".

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2106

Still? I don’t wanna do self-meta, but what is making feel this way?

{REDACTED}

Take the time to reevaluate, Nora.

Saudade is not the only scum that Titus selected.

Yeah, I've been liking clidd's posts for the most part. They come as reasonable and level headed to me.

I think what I'm most disturbed by is the skip. I like to use the night to rethink a few things, but now I just want to resolve another D1 thought I had. This D2 doesn't feel like it actually happened yet and it's throwing me into a loop.

I agree. I think using that kind of ability at the end of the day 1 is super antitown and the worst possible time to use such an ability. All of the important actions generally occur the first night, and furthermore, people need the night to rest and recuperate from the frenzied day 1 that is usually the case.

It really isn’t
I curse when people are being stupid
Alignment matters none

I would imagine this is the case. Like, I haven't kept track of this "tell", but quite honestly, it seems pretty easy to subvert.

VOTE: batsunami

Ew, bad vote.

Ask nancy for the solve im not doing shit this game lol

This is town. This slot should never be limmed.

He trolls but try to solve as town.

Maybe to some extent, but this hasn't generally been the case in my experience. He trolls a lot and maybe does an epsilon of solving. He still spends a lot of time being aggressive and uncooperative.

At bottom of page 90. Lots of non-game related posts in the last few pages (e.g.: alt stuff).
~War

[War and Peace]

Welp now I know one more alt’s identity
Thanks!

You didn't know Batsunami was Noraa and Morning Tweet? This comment feels very out of place.

{REDACTED}

Oh, that makes a lot more sense.

Wanting Clidd/Saudade to joust is pretty cringe.

I have to agree with this. It's not encouraging behavior that helps us win; it encourages behavior that drives us away and clogs the thread.

Yeah but your play is also just rather abominable in general
You’re flat AF and you’ve been stepping on Nancy the whole time

This is a very weak argument. The latter in particular is not at all indicative of scum as scum!Saudade doesn't gain anything from antagonizing the town stump. Also, Saudade's recent posting indicates some level of scumhunting, so while Sauadade is deferring on a lot of stuff, it's not like he's just watching the thread burn.

Honestly if you're using meta you're better served looking for games where I was scum

Otherwise you have a very specific game in mind and I don't know who you are or what you're expecting from me

Dunnstral reads a bit defensive this game.

Didn't this start like... yesterday lol. How is it d2 what happened???

Did any good people claim or anything? I haven't... 100%... caught up yet.

Yeah, large themes are like that. It's rather unfortunate that they get spammed so much so early.

{Shmlatsunami, Shmlyro, Shmley, Shmlorty and Shmlick} --> townblock
{Shmlunnstral, Shmlidd, Shmlaudade}
{ShmlitalianoVD, Shmloogeloo}
{buncha null slots}
{Shmlamantha, Shmlerlock}
{Shmlamma, 5hmluffering}

-Shmlorty

I guess this doesn't matter since they are dead now, but this is illegible. Like, with great effort, you can understand who Morty is referring to here, but overall, it's unnecessarily hard to parse.

Because it seems strange to think that it’s both a town role and it would be used so suboptimally

Townies do really poor things sometimes, in part because they can't discuss their night choices with someone else. It's not that strange; however, I do think it's somewhat +scum equity based on how it was used. That is, I wouldn't immediately clear anyone for claiming it in the absence of other evidence that they are town.

*snip*

Fairly decent first post of content from Saraharas. I am interested in seeing how her catch up proceeds.

I really hate clidd's passiveness there too. I can't let that go in my mind.

This thread is so long I can't remember clidd's stance around the wagon that well. But, IF I remember correctly, I don't think clidd was that passive? Like clidd maybe had a thin posting density compared to the others who posted the same thing a gazillion times, but I think when they did post, they were pretty againdt it/wanting people to elaborate instead of rehashing the same arguments again and again.

you are scum.

Meh. Not sure how to read this interaction between Starcrossed and 5uffering. Probsbly TvS, but I'm not sure who is town and who is scum. I think Pooky here is using a very shallow argument, but I don't like 5uffering's posting in general. This doesn't feel SvS to me; it would have to be more performative.

To bottom of page 99.
~War

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I'm saying scum are more likely to not be on the wagon because they know BM is flipping red and they know noraa is hard driving the mis-elim through.

BM flipped green.

Anyway, I think you are to some extent right and some extent wrong. With the way the wagon was being driven, it was highly likely it would go through without external help; however, Nancy had enough influence where the game state could have drastically changed directions. What I mean is that I think scum might have helped bring the wagon from having an 85% chance to go through to a 99% chance, so there's a good chance some of them pushed it. With Sherlock's flip, this seems to be the case, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a sevond scum on the wagon.

Sarah hard lurking when asked some hard hitting questions.

She doesn't seem super active in general; maybe exercise some patience.

Fey: Enthusiastically agreeing with the situation

I'm sorry; this counts as town indicative? How?

I don't see the point of this at all. Either go all in on me or be quiet. I at least respect Starcrossed calling me scum.

Many things in mafia aren't 100% certain. I don't see how this is really an effective strategy; it basically means you either a) tunnel or b) say nothing of interest simply because that kind of read strength is rather rare.

I feel like Gamma is trying to stay almost invisible while looking active and participating.

Question: Is this grounded in actual fact, as in they are truly doing this, or is it merely your perception? To clarify here, the thread has moved extraordinarily fast. People who may not be lurking in a smaller end up getting drowned out as a result. It's also a lot harder to make pushes if you are struggling to keep up with the thread pace, which if I recall correctly, Gamma complained about that quite some.

I went and looked at Ircher specifically to find a scumgame and I realized something.

He doesn't have any.

Then, you must not have looked hard enough. I don't maintain my wiki page just for fun. (Well, actually, I kinda do , but that's beside the point.) At the time of your post, I had Micro 985[/user] from November/December last year. Granted, it was in a hydra, but I more or less played it with the same strategy I would play this game. If someone wants even more recent meta, I also have this game to look at.

He hasn't played scum in a full year.

I mean, is this actually a surprise though given I only played like 4-5 games in 2020? Furthermore, I would argue that Newbie 1975: Zen is still valid meta. It's not that old given how many games I played in the past year.

Rust develops harder on someones scumplay especially if they don't roll it for such a period of time.

This is pure conjecture. It may be true, but it may not be. It likely varies based on the person in question.

There's some samantha inbetween there as well but going into catchup mode for content they were already around for? Just..didn't feel good.

It's called rereading. I felt that I hadn't read the last several pages closely enough, so I went back and started back there to set my context properly. In general, I remember

much less

when I'm heavily posting in real time compared to what I read in this manner.

W n p whats your top townread and scumread
Just one of each please

I'd go with 5uffering and Batsunami based on what I've read so far. (It should be obvious which is which.)

Nancy was fine with the elim going through after he repped out

That wasn't really my impression. She backed off from hard vetoing it, but I would not call that her being fine with the lim.

At bottom of page 105.
~War

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(mostly in order)
red eye knights - confirmed town
-----------------
morning tweet - I refuse to believe noraa is capable of playing this way as mafia even with titus in her ear
gamma emerald (KidAmn) - for like 99% of the game they didn't exhibit their mafia tells but started to near the end before they replaced out, overall I don't think they are mafia
fey - socially they rub me the wrong way but skipping night makes no sense as a mafia role
olaf - reasons
clidd - moving to the beat of his own drum & has the same vibe as the last game we played where he was town
dkkoba - their role makes no sense to me as a town role, but I also don't think titus would pick it as a role, so if they're mafia it's a fakeclaim; overall I can't really read dkkoba yet since this is a unique environment
starcrossed - not really swayed either way by the message thing, and not familiar with either of them but #2444 is a bad look
saraharas - text walls that ain't nobody got time for (sry ircher), poe, and I have no idea who they are so I can't even check if I get un-lazy
toogeloo - I can relate to their sentiment of wanting days to be shorter, but I also wonder if that's like an unwitting spillover from a frustrated mafia chat with how gung ho s&w were
dunnstral - So I initially had dunnstral as middle of the road in the sense that I didn't feel strongly about them one way or the other and too lazy to check what is normal for them, but their iso made me really interested in knowing if their curt posting style was normal for them (spoiler: it is). I thought it was a waste of time at first, but then I noticed a difference between their town and mafia game
mafia game town game
It's not easily noticed at first, but once you see it it's hard to unsee. The thing that their town game has that their mafia game doesn't is

passion

. The closest they came to passion in their mafia game was when they were on the chopping block. And even though their mafia game was as a replacement, that town game was a vs game just like this one. The fact that they are ostensibly not-vanilla + the difference in posting between the two vs games makes this easy VOTE: dunnstral

also jeez that mountain of posts as I go to post this lol

here have a dog

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Also, regarding Dunnstral: You say the most about him, but it's not even correct regarding his meta. I have seen town games where he has no presence and passion; you're using a small sample size to try and frame him a certain way that isn't actually true.

am I right in those examples?

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I don't think Silent Star is a good example of a scumgame to quote due to the mechanics; it's not a 'traditional' mafia game and if you're trying to case his activity/passion, you should find a better example for me, personally. And also go find some other town games of his, because you'll find uninterested/dispassionate towngames.

I'm ultimately uninterested in him being metacase'd like that; can you case his content this game?

that's a long way of saying yes

also no that took over 3 hours and you got a dog out of it too

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Uh, what?

you didn't claim in the vanilla massclaim 1+1=notvanilla

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Wtf... is this just overt mason hunting

no one should claim unless nancy tells them to

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@W & P, I made it a point of saying at least one scum amongst the vts, so you’re only voting Dunn for not being a vanilla?

Town stump is not very happy about this reason for voting Dunn here.

I agreed about vanillas having mafia, but two things can be true at once and vanilla have a bigger pool

it's not just the notvanilla, it's his disposition this game contrasted with the other vs game added on to it

I brought it up because you said you preferred to find strongman, but if you don't wanna go there today that's fine

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Why is Dunn not claiming vanilla=him being a strongman? Why are you necessarily assuming that all the vt claims are true?

nothing is definitely but anyone who claimed vanilla after vanilla cop would be taking unnecessary risk unless they knew vanilla cop was a fakeclaim

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definite*

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I planned on going through s&w tonight but I gotta sleep early

just wanted to say it doesn't make mechanical sense to lynch us today regardless of anything, since if you wait 1 day we can either eat the nightkill or clear/condemn someone else

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This is dumb because you've already done that/given us at least one person and you're never going to get nightkilled because of how sussed you are.

if left alive today mafia are forced to either waste a nk on us or get either another confirmed town from our result, or potentially -1 mafia member if it's a guilty

if they had a roleblocker they'd already have used it on us

we have 0 chance of reaching day 5 regardless of whether it's lynch or nightkill, so all you're doing is being mafia's advocate here

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So, then scum definitely has to have strongmanned M & R. How do you know this anyway? Krazy wanted PB and REk checked, so that clearly looks like they were vig hunting to me.

Either scum rb’d KidAmr strongman killed M & R. Unless KidAm is lying but I don’t think so but scum clearly wanted M & R dead and if vig hunting, why rb you?

the only way I can see them not roleblocking us while having a roleblocker is if they thought rek had a good chance of being a vigilante, since you telegraphed night actions

I forget what you said about protective stuff though re: morty and rick

also

You can just keep saying that over and over, "I'll eat a nightkill!" and then it'll never happen

not only would no one tolerate that in general, but you could hardcap our lifespan to day 4; I don't feel comfortable committing to this in a hydra but your votes aren't in my control in the first place, so my/our committment is kind of irrelevant lol

I gotta finish getting ready but I'll check back in like 10-15 minutes before bed

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ircher is there a reason you don't just skip ~100 pages that you can't read and start from the new day?

Why couldn't you catch up at night?

I get you're doing a 10 pages per day thing

Context. I lose too much on context if I skip that many pages. Plus, the more important stuff reads wise tends to happen in the first several pages rather than the latter end.

Regarding the night phase, I honestly took a break. I don't know; I haven't really been feeling like playing mafia much lately; I think I kinda burned out some. (This also happens to be the reason I didn't read yesterday... So yeah...)

It isn’t obvious to me? Which one is 5uffering and Bats? I know you are extremely behind in your catchup, so I’m going to assume Bats is the tr and 5uffering is the sr but S & W scumflip should definitely have impacted at least one of those reads for you.

Yes, Batsunami is the town read and 5uffering is the scum read. I honestly haven't been paying Sherlock/Watson much attention since I saw that they flipped scum, so their associatives haven't really factored into my reads at all.
---

olaf replaces pyro

Well, that was sudden.

Titus has a point.

(In reference to 2694 No, she doesn't. The colors come from a template I copy-paste.

ircher, can i see a towngame of yours?

~mitsuha

Take your pick.

Ircher do you post similar colored reads walls as town as well? And can you think of an example?

This is a silly question. 1) Even if I didn't, I wouldn't admit such as that would be a trust tell, and trust tells are banned. 2) You were in Pooky vs. FL with me. I'm pretty sure I posted at least one of these that game. (Actually, I think I posted multiple.) 3) I have a wiki page. It wouldn't take too long to look at like my last 5 games and see if I did this.

Amy made posts similar to the kind of post you saw as possibly scummy from Dunn. Scum rarely make these kinds of posts. They are usually far more careful.

I don't think this is an issue of being careful. It seems more of an issue of Dunnstral's question looking busy.

I insist on a hard claim from them and NV isn’t cutting it for me. If W & P flips scum, there may be possible associatives with Gamma since Ircher inexplicably thought he needed “defending” from Pyro’s very valid and reasonable question.

That was samantha who posted the defense.

Saudade may be obnoxious does that necessarily make him scum?

Not at all. Like, the way Saudade has approached this game just doesn't make a whole lot of sense as scum. He's purposely antagonized you and everyone else and hasn't shown any signs of backing down. He has said what he thinks without a care for what others will perceive of it. Could it be scum? I guess, but it honestly seems really unlikely to me.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
you didn't think to claim something so good when you were a 1/2 vig target yesterday

We claimed not vanilla. I think that was sufficient for the time. Anything more attracts a night kill. (Granted, our night kill chance even with our PR is rather low given we are constantly under suspicion.)

Interesting vote; why them?

are you even expecting a response when you're 80 pages behind or whatever
it's probably been explained

Generally speaking, I expect a response if it wasn't already responded to. In most cases, someone else brought up the same point, so I get the response when I continue my catch up rather than much later. If by chance, it wasn't brought up, then yes, I would expect a response and would probably bring it up again.

Why would you do a readslist after only reading 25 pages? This game has like a 1000.

I think the better question is... why not? Like, if you track my rate of reading, it's clear I would not reach the caught up point any time soon. Reads lists are also not just for y'all; they help me to evaluate and consolidate my thoughts into sturdy reads.

I don't really understand how the charts clear anyone.

No one said anything about clearing. It's a device for making inferences based on patterns. Those inferences are informed by the patterns, but nothing 100% definitive can be garnered from such data with so many variables and confounding factors.

To bottom of page 112.
~War

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W+P feels like it’s stuck in stasis because scum don’t want to defend the slot but also don’t wanna push on it and the people who are town/see it are already on there so it’s not gonna get any momentum...

...? aren't we -2 right now

what exactly is momentum to you, -1?

nancy has to sign off on a lynch anyway, so whether we're -2 -5 or -1 it is effectively the same

I can't tell if you are trying to gaslight or what

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i think u are mafia based on PoE.

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given TRs on Starcrossed/Olaf i can see REK being a mafia goon (specifically goon) based on this post

what part of REK being confirmed town isn't clicking with you people

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Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

This is a really over-the-top read. I actually don't think scum!Krazy puts their partner so high. In particular, I think Sherlock's read here is very exaggerated and likely to get called out as a result. Hence, it attracts the opposite of the intended effect on the given player.

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Just going to comment that it's this "purity" in the posting style that pings me about Fey. I mentioned it earlier, but I'll mention it again: between that and Fey's avatar, I really think she's trying to manipulate us in an evil way. Maybe it's an unfair bias on my part, but that's ultimately the impression I get from the slot. samantha keeps telling me the slot is town though, so this is more a comment than anything...

Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say.

This is kind of a worrying read from Sherlock on Dunnstral. Particularly, why did Sherlock feel the need to "politically" place their Dunnstral read rather than just give it the same treatment as their other reads?

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

{REDACTED}

Olaf
Spoiler:


I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

About half to two-thirds of Krazy's read on olaf is flat out joking... Which basically means Krazy didn't say much of substance about the slot. Idk, that kind of strikes me as behavior that scum!Krazy would do with their partner.

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town.

Another political read, but this time a scum one. Again, it makes me wonder why Krazy felt the need to do it this way.

I'll mess around with the stumps but im not producing content or using any of my tired braincells today. Nono nonono.

This is still town. (I feel I shouldn't have to point this out, bu tit seems Nancy is expressing some doubts, so... yeah...) Like, yes, scum!Noraa could potentially take this approach, but I think it's more likely she takes the approach she did in Pooky vs. Flavor where she basically let Gloria control the hydra and stopped posting by herself.

By the way, Sherlock, I don't remember which newbie game you're talking about (I played a lot), but I'm trying to avoid using that style. It is very tiring cognitively.

I'm playing differently here.

Is there a particular reason for this? I find it very strange you would do try a different style that requires a lot of effort just for the heck of it.

it's not even low hanging at that point, it's ground resting fruit
too SURFACE LEVEL

I actually do not recall my Gamma read, but could you provide some examples (if you haven't already)?

VOTE: ItalianoVD
I got a feeling this is scum

VOTE: Gamma

DO SOMETHING

VOTE: Saudade
I don't trust his ass at all rn

Okay, so yeah, these are kind of surface level, but at the same time, do you think scum!Gamma puts in such little effort for reads. Like, when it becomes /that obvious/, it stops being as much of a tell. Maybe Gamma is just out of it or something.

To bottom of page 118.
~War