Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[furtiveglance]

Third by about a minute. Beware mafia. I will solve this game before you can kill me

[furtiveglance]

I read in the rules that you're allowed to claim mafia but not claim that you are mafia with someone else. In that case, the mafia are NOT me and TTTT.

[furtiveglance]

I read in the rules that you're allowed to claim mafia but not claim that you are mafia with someone else. In that case, the mafia are NOT me and TTTT.

But can I trust you?

There may come a time when you have to, if you are town.

[furtiveglance]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88666
3 of us yeah. I said TTTT was a scumlean early, TTTT and Lukewarm townread each other, TTTT townread me and Lukewarm scumread me. I was Tracker, Lukewarm was VT and TTTT was Mafia.

[furtiveglance]

I know. I read through the game from the start as it was ongoing. Glad you came back.

And I read through the newbie game in which you bamboozled everyone and were given hammer in final 3 as Mafia. Was that 2087?

[furtiveglance]

You and I are basically conftown. If I know math, WHICH I DON'T, nobody rolls maf two games in a row in NewD3. You and I are practically confirmed ICs. Game is practically solved already.

This is is known as the Gambler's foolproof logic.

[furtiveglance]

Hey furtive
can you tell me who between Alanna and PimP
has a scummier entrance so far
and why?
yeah I know it's super early
but I need to see how you are thinking

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost. Town can be self-aware as well as mafia however.

As for PP (lol), their entrance seemed (again in a self-aware way) clumsy and awkward - 'Can't delete posts, right?'.

None of this is really something I would form reads on, I prefer to analyse after the fact.

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

[furtiveglance]

Last game it said Townie under my username. This game it says Goon. Can anyone explain?

[furtiveglance]

Post count.

0- watcher
1- ninja
2- townie
100- goon
1000- mafia scum
5000- jack of all trades
10,000- survivor

Something to aspire to then. Look out for me posting a lot of random stuff

[furtiveglance]

I don’t latch onto people’s opening posts as alignment indicative either. Seems inaccurate far too often. Never felt LAMIST intros indicate scum.

What does LAMIST mean?

[furtiveglance]

Actually regretting spoiling that it’s based on post count now instead of letting you think it was based on your current alignment. A blown opportunity on my part.

I knew for sure it wasn't your role, don't worry about that (I'm Rolecop not Goon)

[furtiveglance]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13283911]

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost.

this makes the TTTT sad[/quote]

I would if you outright called me Mafia. Don't worry we're still besties

[furtiveglance]

Welcome BigTerp. You can have a nifty gifty on arrival

VOTE: BigTerp

[furtiveglance]

Hey furtive
can you tell me who between Alanna and PimP
has a scummier entrance so far
and why?
yeah I know it's super early
but I need to see how you are thinking

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost. Town can be self-aware as well as mafia however.

As for PP (lol), their entrance seemed (again in a self-aware way) clumsy and awkward - 'Can't delete posts, right?'.

None of this is really something I would form reads on,

I prefer to analyse after the fact.

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

After what fact?

The day 1 vote will give us a flip. I will use that to analyse day 1.

In your opinion, would you say "clumsy and awkward" entrance posts are more likely to be town or mafia?

No opinion on that like I said, just giving TTTT what they wanted.

[furtiveglance]

Sorry, hit submit with my fat thumb before I finished my thoughts.

I've got furtiveglance as a town lean, but am a bit confused with post #92. Are you claiming Town Cop there?

Somnus leaning scum is just an early gut feel.

VOTE: SOMNUS

In 92 I was joking about the tags under our usernames.

[furtiveglance]

103 is formatted wrong but I think you can work out which bits I wrote.

[furtiveglance]

Hey furtive
can you tell me who between Alanna and PimP
has a scummier entrance so far
and why?
yeah I know it's super early
but I need to see how you are thinking

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost. Town can be self-aware as well as mafia however.

As for PP (lol), their entrance seemed (again in a self-aware way) clumsy and awkward - 'Can't delete posts, right?'.

None of this is really something I would form reads on,

I prefer to analyse after the fact.

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

After what fact?

The day 1 vote will give us a flip. I will use that to analyse day 1.

In your opinion, would you say "clumsy and awkward" entrance posts are more likely to be town or mafia?

No opinion on that like I said, just giving TTTT what they wanted.

So what is your plan for day 1 while you wait for a flip?

I will probably wait for a wagon to form, then defend the person getting voted/question the people on the wagon

[furtiveglance]

Furtive
your plan is to defend whoever is wagoned?
I'm so confused right now
Luke plz be town I need you

I don't want a repeat of Ofmerciagate. I think sometimes the day 1 elimination is someone who feels a bit awkward/doesn't quite fit in and I don't want that because that is often town.

[furtiveglance]

Furtive
your plan is to defend whoever is wagoned?
I'm so confused right now
Luke plz be town I need you

I don't want a repeat of Ofmerciagate. I think sometimes the day 1 elimination is someone who feels a bit awkward/doesn't quite fit in and I don't want that because that is often town.

I think this is a lazy approach
regardless of your alignment
scum can be found day1

Scum can be found day 1 but it's not as likely. Scum will likely be quite careful on day 1, and are less likely to be collectively scumread since mafia make up 2 (usually active) players in the town.

[furtiveglance]

I'm interested to see what other people think on this, as I've only played one game here.
Are mafia usually voted out day 1?

[furtiveglance]

yes statistically day1 results in a miselim more than a scum elim
because
1) there are more town players
2) scum is informed

but this by no means is an excuse to not try
town winrate goes up enormously when you catch scum day1
and when I was active here a couple years back we often caught scum day1
my town winrate in Newbie games is 11-1
lots of that was luck, but also some damn good scumhunting by some really great town teams

Link to that one game?

[furtiveglance]

And yeah of course I want to win. It's just that a popular wagon is likely town, especially if the reasoning behind the suspicion is the suspected person's individual awkwardness/stubbornness/lack of adequate blending. I will try to look out for those kind of players being miscondemned

[furtiveglance]

Page Top

[furtiveglance]

furtive are you enjoying reading Newbie 1925?

I liked the OMGUS on Clarity. It was a weird read on you by them. Interestingly enough you didn't react the same way when I sussed you in 2088, you just held me at arms length. I'm not encouraging you to OMGUS all suspicion of you though!

As for the game itself, is it just me or does mafia often throw their vote away early in f3?

[furtiveglance]

No one has really done anything alignment indicative yet. I can't help you right now

[furtiveglance]

Scratch that, I will give some very primitive reads, on order of how town I think a player is.

My biggest townread is Mr Turtle. They seem quite frank in a way that mafia might not be on day 1.

Also townlean on TTTT, seem to be trying to advance the game.

I will stay neutral on Somnus, they have said nothing about the game so far.

Lukewarm has said eww twice and nothing else, so no read.

Marci has not arrived yet - no read.

Alianna had a strange interaction with TTTT at the start, I will say no read because it wasn't really game related but could be nervous mafia or nervous town. Either way nervous

PimpPestPlay has seemed a bit blendy so far, almost like they want to be ignored in some posts. I will need more substance from them, for now it is a tentative scumlean.

BigTerp asked if I was cop in one of their first posts, which seems strange. Did they really not know I was joking about being a Rolecop? And do they really not know what the difference between Cop and Rolecop is alignment-wise? They insist on having no confusion but have given me some confusion so far. It could be that they aren't a native speaker/are new to this website/setup?
For now it's a tentative scumlean.

[furtiveglance]

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

[furtiveglance]

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

Last game you townread a lot of people. This game you seem more investigative/paranoid/scumhunting.

[furtiveglance]

TTTT, I am not paranoid because I'm not the kind of player who automatically suspects/fearvotes any player that has won as mafia against me. You honestly seem town to me this game, and that's a gut read.

Lukewarm, if you think I'm playing differently it could be because this is a new game. The first 100 posts had a more jokey/relaxed feel. You should also bear in mind that this is my second game on the site so my playstyle is not yet formed.

Marcistar, welcome to the game. Lukewarm was getting pretty restless. I see you think I'm mafia. Hopefully either 1) I can convince you otherwise or 2) You will be revealed to be evil Mafia scum! As for the defending the day 1 wagon thing, that's in the scenario that a player I think is town is being voted. If I'm leading a vote then things will be different.

Mr Turtle, yes Mafia could also be frank on day 1. It's just that you seem almost prickly/confrontational which would be risky of mafia. Somnus does not get a scumlean from me for not saying anything game related. I don't think that would make much sense.

PimpPestPlay, what are your reads right now?

I accept BigTerp's newness as a defence for otherwise strange posts. UNVOTE: BigTerp

[furtiveglance]

@Luke - your feedback on this would be helpful
I think his last reply was reasonable
but I'm open for second opinions
it's hard to step outside myself for this one

Spoiler: Y U NO PARANOID FURTIVE?

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

Last game you townread a lot of people. This game you seem more investigative/paranoid/scumhunting.

I feel like his read on you is the less interesting one? I think you seem fairly townie as well, at least for this early in the game.

But his other town reads bother me after making such a big deal ALL GAME last game telling me that I was town reading people too easily. And then his "strongest town read" is turtle with his 3 total posts

Just noticed this. I told you last game you were biased towards high frequency posting, which was true. That would be if I gave Somnus a townread (I didn't). In fact I gave 2 townreads/townleans in total, out of 8 other players. The rest were either no read or scumleans.

[furtiveglance]

[quote="In post 178, marcistar"
I think you might be town B)

You're be correct.

Was your post "no, r u?" when asked if you were town just a joke post?

I...i can’t with this. Someone else deal with this.[/quote]

I'll deal with it. BigTerp is playing like a new player. Their reads are illogical. Are they mafia? For me it's a no. People scumreading BigTerp really need to ask (if they are mafia) how would they play as town? I think this is just their strange playstyle more than anything.

[furtiveglance]

I find furtiveglance scummy yes.
10 feels VERY forced. While 18 also in a way feels a bit forced, but in the way of I think they're just inviting useless conversation to seem busy.
81, 117 just honestly feels like excuses and setting himself up so that he'll be able to get away with defending a possible scum wagon in the future by being like "OMG GUYS WTF I GAVE WARNING!!! ". I agree with TTTTs post about it as well.
82 this feels like an honest question to me considering the follow through so it seems a bit like a slip imo.
97 Where was his vote before this? Because this seems WEIRD and standouts from his other posts when I was reading.
For me, I read parts of 127 in a nervous defensive sort of tone. Thats how I think its read, it seems like he doesn't want TTTT to get on his case for some reason. Whats he scared of?
131 I had something to say about this but now i'm tired so you guys can guess first

I meant to reply to this earlier but didn't get round to it.
1) If you think my jokes are forced I can't help you with that, this isn't an open mic so I'm not bothered if you don't think I'm funny.
2) As for the defending a day 1 wagon, I think I'm being accused of hypothetically scumpositioning over a miselim here. Read Newbie 2088's Day 1 (my only previous game here) to see why I don't want a repeat of that. If someone I think is town is being voted, I won't just half-assedly say 'probably flips town' and then 'omg I told you' , I will actively defend them.
3) Asking about the username subtitles 'Townie', 'Goon' etc is not a slip. I knew it wasn't alignment related, I was just curious.
4) I used my vote on BigTerp is a kind of prod to make them talk. It wasn't on anyone before I voted them.
5) As for my interactions with TTTT, I'm not the kind of player to be suspicious of them purely because they were mafia in a previous game. I do not have TMI that they are town, it's day 1 and I am townleaning them.

Marcistar, I have entirely deconstructed your scumcase on me. Either find some new reasons to scumread me, or change your read.

[furtiveglance]

Somnus - Similar reasons to Mr Turtle.

Somnus didn't make the posts Mr Turtle made - do you mean gut feeling again?

[furtiveglance]

Somnus - Similar reasons to Mr Turtle.

Somnus didn't make the posts Mr Turtle made - do you mean gut feeling again?

Mostly.

Beware, this player is a known bamboozler as mafia.

[furtiveglance]

Is that some kind of joke Somnus? I hate jokes, they make me confused :/

[furtiveglance]

And we all know who love confusion.....

[furtiveglance]

Mr Turtle, was my reads list good or hedgy?

[furtiveglance]

Can those that haven't given full readslists do so soon/refuse and say why not?

[furtiveglance]

Can those that haven't given full readslists do so soon/refuse and say why not?

What are your thoughts on my readlist?

I've been townreading Alianna recently. Seems fairly chill
And PimPestPlay I'd have a bit lower down, seems very blendy/coasty, even in a self aware way. I just want more from them really

The others I'd generally agree with to a greater or lesser extent.

[furtiveglance]

I don't have any high confidence reads atm
Alianna and Terp look town
still scumlean Furtive (sorry buddy)

[furtiveglance]

furtive
I don't love how your immediate response to my obnoxious "look at me I'm a good Newbie game player" post
was to ask for a link to the game where I lost as town

Just the first thing that came to mind honestly. It's not like I'm taking notes from MJL's iso

[furtiveglance]

I like reading games for entertainment value, I wouldn't study it even if I was mafia

[furtiveglance]

Some of marcistar's posts look like they came from a bot. But I'm not sure I want to put marcistar on E1.

I think that's a bit rich. I've never seen such a garbled stream of consciousness as your last post.

What I want from you is a list of the players in this game in order of how town you think they are. It would help me greatly

[furtiveglance]

2) As for the defending a day 1 wagon, I think I'm being accused of hypothetically scumpositioning over a miselim here. Read Newbie 2088's Day 1 (my only previous game here) to see why I don't want a repeat of that. If someone I think is town is being voted, I won't just half-assedly say 'probably flips town' and then 'omg I told you' , I will actively defend them.

4) I used my vote on BigTerp is a kind of prod to make them talk. It wasn't on anyone before I voted them.

5) As for my interactions with TTTT, I'm not the kind of player to be suspicious of them purely because they were mafia in a previous game. I do not have TMI that they are town, it's day 1 and I am townleaning them.

Marcistar, I have entirely deconstructed your scumcase on me. Either find some new reasons to scumread me, or change your read.

Firstly I'm not tryna read past games, thats boring. I think coming in with a set in stone 100% mindset isn't all that helpful, and the way you worded it earlier made it seem (at least to me) that you would do it even without having reasons. But if you only do it when you have good reasons like you're saying now then thats fair enough.

But wasn't that right after they subbed in..? It seemed like not giving them very much time to post before you did that. (Or am I mixing up names here?)

Where did I even talk about your interactions with TTTT or said you were TMIing him? I don't remember that at all, please point it out.

And no thank you for that last part; vote me if you want.
"deconstructed" maybe, but am I done with you yet? Nope!!


(BTWS IM AT WORK AND PHONE POSTING uwu I'll respond to more later tonight but this was the only post i had time for during my break )

What are your reads on the entire playerlist, for when you do get back?

[furtiveglance]

furtive
can you explain what you meant in 219?

Alianna said Somnus felt town whereas I have Somnus as neutral. Partly a jokey post but partly serious

[furtiveglance]

I agree with most of those reads Turtle, apart from me in orange.
I won't vote until I've heard PimPestPlay's full reads, as well as some contribution from Lukewarm and Marcistar's update tonight.

[furtiveglance]

@Luke - your feedback on this would be helpful
I think his last reply was reasonable
but I'm open for second opinions
it's hard to step outside myself for this one

Spoiler: Y U NO PARANOID FURTIVE?

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

Last game you townread a lot of people. This game you seem more investigative/paranoid/scumhunting.

I feel like his read on you is the less interesting one? I think you seem fairly townie as well, at least for this early in the game.

But his other town reads bother me after making such a big deal ALL GAME last game telling me that I was town reading people too easily. And then his "strongest town read" is turtle with his 3 total posts

Just noticed this. I told you last game you were biased towards high frequency posting, which was true. That would be if I gave Somnus a townread (I didn't). In fact I gave 2 townreads/townleans in total, out of 8 other players. The rest were either no read or scumleans.

I am pretty sure that your critique of my play was not just on high frequency posters, and especially after my early Day 1 reads list you called me out for handing out town reads "like candy," too early, and for players that, in your opinion, had not done anything alignment indicative yet.

Yes. Townreading is subjective and always will be. I disagreed last game. If you don't townread Mr Turtle that's fine. I do, and I explained why.

[furtiveglance]

Somnus - Similar reasons to Mr Turtle.

Somnus didn't make the posts Mr Turtle made - do you mean gut feeling again?

Mostly.

Beware, this player is a known bamboozler as mafia.

Do you scum read Somnus, or are you just undercutting Alianna's town read there?

Scumread is too strong. I have a slight suspicion over their interactions with BigTerp. BigTerp was saying Somnus was weird/confusing for something that I said, and I thought Somnus' reaction was slightly overkill when no one really thought anything of it anyway, as if Somnus was unnecessarily defensive. That said, I am having fun talking to Somnus so I want them to stay alive.

[furtiveglance]

TTTT is acting strangely at the moment. They seem to have stronger scumreads (including me and potentially Turtle but I'm not sure) but has settled for pushing PPP. I'd like a full breakdown from them soon

[furtiveglance]

Marcistar, It's fine if you don't want to give full reads because you might be unsure. I'll ask you this instead then: 1) What do you think of Lukewarm this game? And 2) 3 of us (Me, PPP and You) haven't voted yet. If you could choose the day 1 elimination yourself (like a day vig) who would it be and why?

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

So do you scum read Marci, or are you just considering sheeping your town reads?

"Excited about Marcistar potentially being Mafia" is an interesting phrasing lol

I do scumread Marci now because they don't want to give reads.

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

Doesn't this post contradict the one Lukewarm just replied to?

Explain the contradiction for me

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

Doesn't this post contradict the one Lukewarm just replied to?

Explain the contradiction for me

[furtiveglance]

How to delete accidentally doubled post?

[furtiveglance]

How to delete accidentally doubled post?

I think you can quote it and then delete it? I would just leave it though, it's not confusing or anything

God forbid.

[furtiveglance]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

As you can see here I'm saying my townreads are 'on the wagon' i.e. voting for Marci. I do not townread Marci in this post or anywhere else

[furtiveglance]

I fundamentally disagree that survivalism is scummy. I have never, in any game, as any alignment, rolled over and accepted my elimination.

As scum, I obviously don't want to be eliminated

As town, I am the only person that I know is 100% town [barring Masons], so eliminating me is 100% a town miselimination, but saving myself, and having someone else die changes it to a 2/8 chance of a scum elimination.

A 100% town elim is worse then a 75% chance on a town elimination. My win condition requires me to try and save myself regardless of my alignment, so imo, survivalism is NAI

Marcistar hasn't suggested a counter vote though. They now seem almost afraid to say anything about the game

[furtiveglance]

Marci who is the most sus rn?
Feel free to say me

[furtiveglance]

last thoughts before I have to get back to work
I like BigTerp's recent stuff on these last few pages
378 is super awkward and it's be amazing if this game was as simple as PPP-marci
@Luke - did you give a read on marci after their big catch-up posts? on mobile and haven't read everything in depth yet so maybe missed it.

PPP's 378 also caught my eye - it makes me more suspicious of PPP than of marci though, and it doesn't have to be marci for it to be PPP.

[furtiveglance]

Intent to hammer Marcistar

[furtiveglance]

They have nothing else to say about the game. I would prefer PPP probably but I'm optimistic that Marcistar is mafia

[furtiveglance]

The game has gone a bit stale and I want to jumpstart it

[furtiveglance]

What do you notice? To me it was saying I was mafia (no) and two of my townreads are mafia (I don't think so)

[furtiveglance]

If town, engage with the whole player list please

[furtiveglance]

Ok fair enough Marcistar. I haven't written you off but I'm sure you can understand that I don't like you not giving full reads on the whole player list.

[furtiveglance]

Shame that Alianna is being replaced, I thought they were a fun/chill presence in the game. Are there conventions on replacements - should we give the new player a clean slate or do we see it as the same slot? I think I was townreading Alianna.

[furtiveglance]

Shame that Alianna is being replaced, I thought they were a fun/chill presence in the game. Are there conventions on replacements - should we give the new player a clean slate or do we see it as the same slot? I think I was townreading Alianna.

Good question. Can't say I've played many, if any, games where replacements were needed. I'd lean towards clean slate. Give them a chance to get caught up and answer any questions, at least.

Either way, I strongly think we should give the replacement a chance to do the above before anyone gets eliminated.

What do you think of my read on PPP as well as suggestion and vote to put some pressure on them? You mentioned a few pages back you preferred them over Marcistar. Why is your vote still on no one?

Also, you made it known of your intent to hammer Marci yet preferred PPP. Can you explain/expand on that?

I have them both as scumreads. I gave intent to hammer because I scumread Marci and they had/have more votes than PPP. I think both are decent votes.
I need to think a bit more before I vote now though.

[furtiveglance]

Updated readslist: In this list I am looking through ISOs and noting what catches my eye.

Lukewarm

: Is giving a lot of analysis which I love. Even if Lukewarm is mafia, they are greatly helping town with their gamesolving, and it doesn't seem fake/unsubstantiated/badly-motivated to me. They chose to scumread Somnus who is not an easy push, rather than just double down on Marcistar/PPP/me, who seemed to be the collective scumreads at the time. Lukewarm is my biggest townread.

BigTerp

: This player gives me a lot of thought. After an awkward start, they have grown into the game. I don't know whether I am happy about this or concerned by it. I do strongly agree with their reads in 436. They are clearly biased towards high frequency posting which I think could be a town tell, as mafia probably wouldn't defer to post count for their reads so openly. BigTerp gets a townread from me. I was on the fence, but they are not in my scumpool anymore.

TTTT

: I am conflicted now. I was townreading them because they seemed to be playing differently to last game, but I don't like that they tried to play executioner in 308. Of those people, I'm not mafia, I don't think Lukewarm is mafia and the other two were just the easiest targets at the time. There hasn't been enough explaining of thoughts from TTTT. Why was it that you drew up a list of 4 potential elims, and how did you arrive at those names?
I still townlean TTTT, but I am less sure after their erratic posting, and I agree they are guilty of LAMIST posting. I disagree that TTTT should be locked town for 415. Mafia can put effort in as well

Mr Turtle

: 98 , 109, 182, 202 and 389 are easy posts for anyone to make - questioning game strategy, questioning reasons for reads. This is limited in its usefulness - yes these questions make other players think and second-guess reads, but this kind of posting does not help me townread Mr Turtle. I would prefer to see more analysis and opinion of their own. As for their reads in 228 and 276 , I like that they gave scumreads first; the most important thing is to find mafia. They gave a fair criticism of my 'defend all wagons' strategy, which I see now is fairly dumb. I agree with these scumreads (of PPP and Marcistar) but not with their reasoning. Turtle wants PPP to be more 'confident' and says they made some posts which Turtle 'didn't get' - those aren't good reasons to scumread someone in my opinion. Turtle's main issue with Marcistar was that they didn't vote for me despite scumcasing me - this could just be Marci's playstyle. I had Turtle as a townread earlier but I think they are back in the null range.

Alianna

: Soon to be replaced. I think it's best to say null for that reason. I would have said town if I had to guess, however their townread on Somnus in 216 stood out to me, because they said 'similar reasons to Turtle' and I didn't think Somnus had earned it in the same way. But they're being replaced, so in the null range.

PimPestPlay

: n00b. If they are mafia they are playing very level zero, and it would be daring to play this way as mafia, but thinking about this is just WIFOM. They are very self aware in their newness and none of their reads/analyses are grounded in anything other than either randomness, peer pressure, or bizarre assumptions/leaps of logic. In 421 they use the word 'should' which is throwing me off, as town is surely more likely to think in this way - we are all working together etc. I scumread them previously for doing things without reason, but that could just as easily be nooby town. One thing's for sure: this player is never getting nightkilled. I've never been a fan of the Darwinian 'vote out unhelpful players though'. I think I'll revise this read back to null.

Somnus

: A lot of posts, 1 readslist. That one readslist in 331 is all I really have to go on. They have pinned the two 'newbie' players as scumleans which I don't like. Despite being a high frequency poster, I haven't been townreading Somnus this game, and having read through Newbie 2087 I can't see much difference in their play this game. I'm giving Somnus a null/scum lean here.

Marcistar

: I can't get over their reluctance to voice thoughts on the game despite being on the brink of elimination. They don't seem to have any kind of agenda however, and like Lukewarm says, they aren't desperately self-preserving (e.g. by voting for Somnus). It's still a scum-lean from me.

To conclude then, my townbloc consists of Lukewarm, BigTerp and TTT.

This leaves a scumpool of Turtle, PPP, Alianna's replacement, Somnus and Marcistar.

My gut read is that Somnus is red. VOTE: Somnus

[furtiveglance]

someone asked how to deal with Alianna's replacement
I don't move them to null
how their predecessor played matters
why would it not?

Agreed.

By that I mean they claim Marci as a scumlean, without really claiming them as a scumlean. They say

"I scumleaned marcistar because of popularity and the generic bot-like posts, same as BigTerp. I can understand it though, if there is a lack of time or posting off a phone."

It's like saying I read Marci as scum, but I understand why they seem scummy, so their not scum. What?!?!

There are 2 sides to everything. Why would I trust my own logic?

Would it convince anyone if I vowed to vote for whomever Lukewarm votes? Except for hammering ofc.

It wouldn't convince me, and I don't think it's the best strategy since we have no confirmed town. Also, if you never trust your own logic how can you play the game? Try not to sit on the fence so much. If you genuinely have no idea, say that, rather than making a point but walking it back in the next sentence.

[furtiveglance]

Welcome MorbidDino. You've been dropped right in the middle of the action

[furtiveglance]

Hello. And yes, it seems there is quite a bit of reading to do

I see you joined yesterday. Have you played mafia before?

[furtiveglance]

Any more responses to my thoughts in 441?

[furtiveglance]

Quick off-topic question, Furtive, because it's been bugging the hell out of me: Who is that in your avatar? I feel like it's a football coach or something.

John Watson as portrayed by Martin Freeman in the BBC adaptation of Sherlock

[furtiveglance]

Do you really not remember?

Turn of phrase, I didn't forget. I was null/town on Alianna

All 9 players should at the very least appear like they're trying to solve the game though. The fact that only a few do is a problem. And in your hypothetical, if Lukewarm is mafia, then their gamesolving would not benefit town, as it would be scum-motivated. Also, I would argue that I'm possibly the easiest push in the game, as two or three players have at least claimed that they do/previously scum-read me based on tone or having light-hearted fun at the very start of the game when barely anyone was here.

I townread Lukewarm because they seem to be gamesolving. If you think they are mafia, say that directly.

Subjectively disagree that he's playing differently than last game. That doesn't automatically or even likely make him scum in my eyes though. Far too many people are willingly going along with the executioner routine and not showing any autonomy whatsoever in their decisions of who/when to vote in this game. Two people who are blindly being town-read for rather minimal reasons don't get to dictate who the "dueling wagons" are, who you're allowed to vote for, or if/when you're allowed to declare intent to hammer. And yet, here we are. It's YOUR vote and not someone else's. This isn't directed exclusively at you, by the way, furtive.

Townreading will always be subjective day 1. Saying 'minimal reasons' is pretty pointless. I don't mind being influenced by players I think are town, but even so I came to my own conclusions.

Agree about the WIFOM. I don't agree that his two votes (both on me) have been random. One was an OMGUS/retaliation vote and one he admitted he's essentially doing what he's told/what is popular. I agree with the peer pressure, but as always, it should come down to what the motivation behind that peer pressure is. More importantly though, two paragraphs ago, you "agreed that he's a scum-read". In fact, less than 12 hours before this reads-list, you went from declaring intent to hammer marci, to rather going with PPP, to putting him at null.

I've done a U-turn on PPP. I think they are more casual than nervous.

Up until this post that I'm replying to, everyone had a grand total of 0-1 readslists. People don't usually type up a fully detailed readslist every day or two. As far as I can tell, even with this post, only 2 people have done a full readslist twice and a few players still have zero. Why does the experience of who I have in my current/subject to change scum-reads list matter? At the time, I also had two newbie players as my only two town reads. So if you're implying that I'm buddying with experienced players and picking on newer players, shouldn't I have several experienced players as town-leans (I currently have zero of them as town-leans, which obviously can't be the correct solve). Why is this even remotely relevant? How does this game in any way, shape, or form, look like how I played in Newbie 2087? I think they look worlds apart, but I'm biased.

True that everyone has only given 1 or 2 readslists. My point is that looking through your ISO I didn't see a lot of subjective analysis of your own, it's more questioning reads. The biggest scumread you have is now a townread of mine, and an easy target to boot.

...But if this is a legit reads list and not one made to look like a legit reads list, this is where your vote should be then, yeah?

Why is it not? Walk me through the progression of:

-Declaring intent to hammer marci

-Being scolded and told you're not allowed to touch the hammer (I'm only wording it this way because I know you're not the type to get offended by me making a harmless joke)

-Saying you'd rather vote for PimpestPlay but that you're both excited/optimistic that Marci is likely mafia

-Presumably going to bed

-Waking up and typing a reads-list and then placing a vote elsewhere, while Pimpest is no longer a scum-read (even though he was earlier in this very post). Because that looks really really really really really bad to me. Worse than anything else I may have been nit-picky about here.[/color]

I think Marcistar leaving made me second guess it a bit because they seemed like bad town. And as I wasn't getting a hammer on Marcistar immediately, I put some more pressure on my second biggest scumread. Anyway, I think it might be good to have you in the game for another day, as you are causing some enjoyable tension with Lukewarm and TTTT.

[furtiveglance]

UNVOTE: Somnus

[furtiveglance]

Intent to hammer Marcistar

.
Have we been here before?

[furtiveglance]

In 495 I meant to say it seemed like Marcistar was bored town, not bad town.

[furtiveglance]

I'm just saying Marci is my biggest scumread right now, I would vote them if they weren't at E-1 and people keep demanding that I don't 'hold my vote'. I wasn't going to hammer without a claim

[furtiveglance]

Welcome Goldfish, please don't leave us!

[furtiveglance]

You won't show me your pov. Give detailed reads please!!

[furtiveglance]

You won't show me your pov. Give detailed reads please!!

I did everyone just ignored them

All we have so far is 409, which was cobbled together by TTTT. I don't need pages of theory/analysis, I'd just like each player put into one of three groups: town, null, and mafia. Furthermore, if you are town, you have a unique perspective on your wagon. Who looks like they are cynically pushing you out? Who looks like town being led astray?

[furtiveglance]

Tentative reads (I don't trust all these yet):
Mafia:
Somnus : really active but not contributing much, seems like active lurking
Marcistar: reasons I already described, also at the beginning they kept asking for reads but weren't contributing anything, I think that asking questions isn't scummy however it really looked like Marci was trying to look like she was pushing the game forward but not having to contribute or just looking for someone else's reads to latch onto. However I'm not certain She's scum anymore.
PPP: something is very off about their posting, they seem desperate to get somnus voted off,

I wonder if it is a bus.

You seem to have agreed with the consensus here. I recently explained why I moved PPP to null, as I think their weirdness might not be Alignment Indicative. Your theory that PPP is currently bussing Somnus is as bizarre as pigeons being government drones. Why would mafia go so hard day 1, putting the spotlight on both of them? That comment needs more justification, seems really flaky to just say 'I wonder'.

[furtiveglance]

this makes me doubt it's as simple as marci-goldie
seems very unlikely Goldie posts this if they are the team

Fake musing. You were never really considering marcistar/Gold. If you were I'm disappointed.

[furtiveglance]

Once again, I would like Marcistar to claim and I want to bring down the hammer!

[furtiveglance]

this makes me doubt it's as simple as marci-goldie
seems very unlikely Goldie posts this if they are the team

Fake musing. You were never really considering marcistar/Gold. If you were I'm disappointed.

God this looks informed.

Furtive why do you have to do this to my nice town read on you

Informed that it's me and one of marcistar/Gold, me and TTTT, or me and someone else?

[furtiveglance]

this makes me doubt it's as simple as marci-goldie
seems very unlikely Goldie posts this if they are the team

Fake musing. You were never really considering marcistar/Gold. If you were I'm disappointed.

God this looks informed.

Furtive why do you have to do this to my nice town read on you

Informed that it's me and one of marcistar/Gold, me and TTTT, or me and someone else?

Seen and not responded too.

Feels like a "if you think that was scummy, then who is my partner then" which is not a line of questioning that is particularly helpful in almost any situation imo

Meh, maybe I was unclear to begin with.

I formed that the scum team is not Marci+Gold -> Which implies you are scum.

The observation is completely independent from who your partner would be in that scenario.

Well I'm not informed, it's just the most obvious scumteam right now, which is never usually the case.

[furtiveglance]

Marci please claim, I want to bring down the hammer

[furtiveglance]

Marci pls claim role!!!

[furtiveglance]

The more it devolves

[furtiveglance]

Lukewarm has died. I will replace Lukewarm with Mr Turtle in my townbloc, as my other townreads (Lukewarm and BigTerp for instance) seem to townread them, and I will stick with my day 1 read on Turtle. They must be in prod range though, I'd like more participation please.

So that means BigTerp, TTTT and Mr Turtle are in my townbloc.

Which leaves a scumpool of Somnus, PPP and GoldfishFromtheMoon.

If Somnus is town, then nothing makes sense anymore. I think Somnus has to be mafia.

VOTE: Somnus

[furtiveglance]

Case on Somnus: I didn't like their initial readslist in 331, in which they had 4 of us in the null range, and I strongly disagreed with their scumread on BigTerp. They didn't really comment much on the day 1 vote apart from to defend themself, and never voted for BigTerp, instead voting for PPP as a 'prod vote' and never moving it. Lukewarm had Somnus as their number one scumread in 316, then got nightkilled. I'm just not seeing anything that I would see from town players in Somnus - pushing your scumreads being the main thing. For these reasons I think Somnus should be the vote today. I can't really see a PPP/GoldfishfromtheMoon scumteam.

[furtiveglance]

I think PPP might just have some very weird turns of phrase. I can't really see them paired with Somnus. The gamesolve I have right now is Somnus/Gold.

[furtiveglance]

Someone else vote Somnus pls

[furtiveglance]

A Somnus flip would aid my gamesolving more than a Goldfish flip.

[furtiveglance]

I think PPP is town, I know you're seeing a Gold/PPP team. I see Somnus/Gold or Somnus/TTTT(!)

[furtiveglance]

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

Furtive
what information did you get out of the marci elim?

Not much really, they were individually the scummiest not the most informative flip. I would have preferred Somnus but they weren't getting voted.

[furtiveglance]

this makes me doubt it's as simple as marci-goldie
seems very unlikely Goldie posts this if they are the team

Fake musing. You were never really considering marcistar/Gold. If you were I'm disappointed.

Furtive please explain this now
why do you think I was never really considering marci/Gold?

That post just struck me as fake in the moment. You're a decent player and marci/Gold was the 'easiest' solve. It's never that simple

[furtiveglance]

Well mafia use townreading as a tool to get towncred, I wouldn't put much stock by it. TTTT do you townread Somnus? I have said many times they are my number one suspect.

[furtiveglance]

Disgusting self-interest. Acknowledge that Somnus is scummy. This is your last chance to bus for towncred

[furtiveglance]

'wonder if it was a bus' lol

[furtiveglance]

Turtle is town for me. Do not just avoid my questions on Somnus and skirt around it, explain why you aren't voting them TTTT.

[furtiveglance]

The plot thickens

[furtiveglance]

I won't stand for a push on an absent player. As for Goldfish, I can see them with Somnus but Somnus fits in a lot of pairings for me.

[furtiveglance]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle and so do I. You should get on board with the Somnus vote, it might help your standing in future

[furtiveglance]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle

he also ended the day talking about how you were scumslipping

I was 'informed' that it wasn't the most obvious scumteam imaginable. I remember. If you want to accuse me just do it

[furtiveglance]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle

he also ended the day talking about how you were scumslipping

^

isn't it interesting how both the dead players, (who we know are town), scum read furtive?

my current thoughts on the scum team are turtle/furtiveglance. But I think furtive/PPP is also a possibility, furtive was one of the first to towered PPP and keeps defending PPP's strangeness.

Either way

FOS: Furtiveglance

Factually incorrect I'm afraid. Lukewarm said I was '+town' in 289, then had me in the null range in 318. Their biggest scumread was Somnus. I am keeping that torch burning. Marcistar scumread me yes. I deconstructed their scumcase on me (169) in 209.
PPP is still in my scumpool but not my preferred vote at the moment. I really think Somnus should be the vote today.

Also, if you think it's me you can vote me. Don't just say 'FOS' without fully committing in case I flip town.

[furtiveglance]

TTTT If Mr Turtle is scum who do you think is most likely to be his partner?

TTTT has it occured to you that Golfish sheeped your Turtle read out of nowhere and is attempting to buddy/pocket you?

[furtiveglance]

That's E-1

AHH sorry I didn't say

you have some explaining to do

so here is my explaining (and I get this sounds bad)

My reads list was basically identical to BigTerps so I just said that I agreed with most of it.

here is what I have on the players I didn't mention,

Furtive glance: I'm pretty sure he's town but I don't trust myself because I visualise him as Watson from the BBC Sherlock TV show because of the profile pic, which biases me toward thinking he is town.

BigTerp: I agree with most of their reads and they liked my marci logic from earlier, so I think we seem to be having a similar thought process and they're town

TTTT: Initially I was kinda suspicious of you but your reaction to my most recent stuff honestly seems town

Mr turtle: I like most of their posts and I think they seem town

Lukewarm : Haven't got around to reading ISO yet but what I've seen seems good.

Goldfish these are your reads a few days ago. You had both me and Turtle as townleans. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are town, so help me understand. Have you been beguiled by TTTT's charm and decided to follow them blindly? Were you really won over by marcistar's scumcase on me? Is it that Turtle's less frequent posting makes you suspicious of them? More explanation is needed for this bizarre U-turn please.

[furtiveglance]

Public opinion seems to have turned against me between the start of Day 2 and now. I think this is because I have encouraged people to vote for a mafioso and am now being 'silenced by the mob'. I will ignore Somnus and Golfish who are only throwing shade at me because I said it was them first, and haven't made any decent points at all.

[furtiveglance]

Furtive

- Scum read. My biggest flip from day one. Had them as strong town along with Luke (pretty much a coin toss between the two as who was most town), but this https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294102 and this https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294255 has caused a complete 180 for me.

BigTerp I still think you're town so I will address your points.

The first is my reluctance to hammer a player who had not claimed their role. I didn't want marcistar to turn out to be a power role and I would look very stupid. They never claimed, so I never hammered - it's as simple as that. I get the feeling you think I didn't hammer so I wouldn't look bad for it, which is not the case at all. If marcistar had said they were VT I would have hammered.

Your second reason for suspecting me is my confidence in my read on Somnus. I can only try to convey how certain I am that Somus is mafia. They have made a lot of posts, yet never pushed any player hard. They seem to defer to the consensus every time they say anything about the game - for instance recently saying they would vote for any generally scumread player in 806. I read through their previous newbie game (when they were mafia) and nothing is different to me this game. Somnus is guilty of active lurking, blending, and being generally agreeable without sticking their neck out. All they have done is question reads without giving their own analysis.

[furtiveglance]

Public opinion seems to have turned against me between the start of Day 2 and now. I think this is because I have encouraged people to vote for a mafioso and am now being 'silenced by the mob'. I will ignore Somnus and Golfish who are only throwing shade at me because I said it was them first, and haven't made any decent points at all.

I like you, furtive, but this is kind of gross and not a productive approach.

Who are the mafia from your perspective?

[furtiveglance]

The aim of the game is to find mafia. I think I'm doing that well, or am at least close. I'm not worried if you think I'm scummy for pointing fingers.

[furtiveglance]

The aim of the game is to find mafia. I think I'm doing that well, or am at least close. I'm not worried if you think I'm scummy for pointing fingers.

It's not about you pointing fingers, it's about you picking and choosing who to engage with. Not sure why one would do that?

I think the scumteam is Somnus/Goldfish at the moment. I won't explain to mafia why I'm town

[furtiveglance]

Use the tag that says post in the preview

[furtiveglance]

TTTT can I have a readslist pls? I'd like to know your thoughts

[furtiveglance]

Town

BigTerp


PPP

Furtive
Somnus

Goldie
Turtle

Scum

right now BigTerp is the only one who would really surprise me if they are scum
I need more townreads
not sure on the order of the middle two either
but this is where I'm at

I am offended that PPP is above me

[furtiveglance]

You could use another townread

[furtiveglance]

Turtle is coasting
hasn't actually pushed anyone
isn't trying to sort anyone
I need somebody, anybody, who disagrees with me to tell me why I'm wrong

I think you're wrong, low frequency posting doesn't equal mafia. Somnus is much more suspicious, his defence now is that he could have pushed marci but didn't?
Somnus is a much better vote.

[furtiveglance]

I can't see Somnus and PPP as a pair. The mafia team is therefore Somnus/GoldfishFromtheMoon, or PPP/Goldfish.

[furtiveglance]

I'm pretty sure it's Somnus/Goldfish

[furtiveglance]

Vote Somnus, you will look good when they flip red

[furtiveglance]

In all seriousness, I think we need a Somnus vote today rather than a Turtle vote. Turtle is very town to me. I can see Somnus/Gold or maybe Somnus/TTTT. BigTerp and Turtle pls vote for Somnus if you think I am town

[furtiveglance]

I stated before that in my mind the pair is either Somnus/Gold or Somnus/TTTT. Now TTTT is voting anyone but Somnus and they are voting together....not a fan. I am still desperate for a Somnus elimination. My scum radar is still forming but it hasn't gone off like this before. Posts 910 and 911 are so passive. This is a player trying to hide and self-justify, not scumhunt. BigTerp help me force through a Somnus vote please.

[furtiveglance]

I can't see Somnus and PPP as a pair. The mafia team is therefore Somnus/GoldfishFromtheMoon, or PPP/Goldfish.

This you?

Yes, my thoughts have changed slightly.

[furtiveglance]

I still scumread Gold, don't get me wrong. It's just that I want to eliminate the player who is mafia in either scenario.

[furtiveglance]

I will guess they tracked Goldfish who went nowhere, but that's just a guess, I'm not the tracker.

[furtiveglance]

I think in my mind right now, the order of suspicion is Goldfish most suspicious then TTTT then Turtle then PPP.

[furtiveglance]

Tracker should probably out even if they don't have a useful result, it will prevent counter claimijng nonsense tomorrow.

[furtiveglance]

I bet Turtle is tracker

[furtiveglance]

Ok I was wrong. GG

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Mr Turtle

[furtiveglance]

I was thinking it was TTTT at the end, I won't lie.

[furtiveglance]

Thanks for modding

[furtiveglance]

Link to scum/dead PT?

[furtiveglance]

Thanks, missed it

[furtiveglance]

BigTerp tysm for saving me 2 nights in a row. I was trying to pretend I had a guilty on Somnus a bit

[furtiveglance]

Some thoughts this morning...........

TTTT

- I'm liking a lot of their recent posts. It's coherent and seems to be in the favor of moving the game along and really trying to figure things out. There have been several posts regarding Mr. Turtle and Furtive that I found myself shaking my head in agreement with.

PPPP

- I've turned the corner with PPP from null/scum to a pretty strong town read. I mentioned it here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294610 and the same seems to be continuing.

Goldfish

- Null. Still a REALLY tough read for me. I had the person in the slot first as scummy, and Goldfish is becoming more of a townish read as the game goes on. But I'm having troubling consolidating the slot and making a read one way or the other.

Somnus

- Null/scummy read. This continues to be a tough one for me. My last read still rings true.

Posting seems forced with little substance. It's like Somnus is here and participating, but just enough to appear as present and participating. Not giving much thought on their own reads nor others. Good strategy for scum, so if they are flipped there isn't much to go own based on their previous post.

Mr. Turtle

- Has gone from null to scum read. TTTT made some interesting and reveling thoughts on TTTT here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13295762 and here https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13295798. Initially I gave Mr. Turtle credit for their informative and seemingly well thought out posts. But TTTT made a good point here that much of it is irrelevant to what was going on in the game.

Furtive

- Scum read. My biggest flip from day one. Had them as strong town along with Luke (pretty much a coin toss between the two as who was most town), but this https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294102 and this https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13294255 has caused a complete 180 for me.


With all of that said, I'm good with any of the last three on my list.

VOTE: Mr.Turtle as I'd like to hear MUCH more from them.

This post made me sad, I knew BigTerp was town