Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[Not Known 15]

Mala villagery tho, why do you want to vote only villagers mr monkey?

villagey how?

That entrance is fairly pure tonally, what's bad about it?

That it assumes that FL is town?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Malakittens
This one is pretty obvious.

[Not Known 15]

But I also get how that frustration could be genuine, so a slot to keep an eye on for now.

Frustration can come from scum, too. In this case it is not town-indicative.

[Not Known 15]

JV I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW IM TOWN IN THIS GAME

I KNOW ITS GONNA BE HARD TO EARN YOUR TRUST

BUT I GOTCHU BB

VOTE: flavorleaf

Hi

Spiritual vote on Malakittens

Malashell

I don't like being shipped with random ppl i don't know.

sorrynotsorry.

i also think malakittens is addressing JV as if they already know JV is town and is trying to get their trust. that's a very weak read tho, and it seems like there's background there.

I have played with JV twice so far; both times I have been scum. So there's the potential that he might vote me right off the bat which is fair considering that I been scum twice so far now against him.

tbh if i was self conscious i prob wouldnt have posted my first post
just saying

Your first post was also very self conscious though

I do find issue that Mala immediately denied the self consciousness in response to it being called a wolftell - as it *is* present, although I did not inherently find it bad.
Can you explain the denial, Mala?

I'm self conscious in rl???
but i dont feel like i was acting self conscious

but whatrever

can we get off the topic

Self-consciousness isn't a scumtell IMHO.

I don't know how koopa "reads from the hip" on pages 1-2 and expects to be accurate in any way.

It's not, but apparently people think it's cool in order to use it as a scum tell, nor is being aggressive or defensive

but then when you go "its a rl thing"

thats frowned upon too

so lets move the topic along

if we dont want to move this topic along then just lim me now and get it over with

it's more for getting warned by the mod thing.

I actually enjoy mafia sometimes and i really dont want to be banned

esp

for something so stupid of "oh she's being self conscious" lets vote her!!!

i dont think you're being self-conscious exactly

i think you're trying to get us to townread you earlier by declaring to lim you right there and then — and assuming Roden is with good intentions trying to push you
it tracks with the idea that you wanted JV to townread you — and assuming that the slot is town

holy fuck

i didnt want JV to townread me

i just made a comment about me being town with him for the first time

fuck everyone lighten the fuck up

its day 1

TMI on JV, again.
Not trying to get townread by jv was probably true, mala was just looking for an entrance. But the TMI on JV being town is a clear, unambiguous scumtell because that assumption can come from town, but not at the time of post.

[Not Known 15]

Confident in this vote.

How confident would you say you are? I think the Mala vote was very opportunistic but they've only made about four posts so far.

Oh really?
Why is voting obvious scum opportunistic?

[Not Known 15]

Italiano, where's that Scorpious read coming from?

[Not Known 15]

Again not really seeing where I did a TMI on JV.

My thought process was as follows:

Get my role PM - see it’s green. Get excited because I’m not scum finally.
See the player list and realize that JV is in it.
Get excited because I’m finally playing as town instead of scum with JV there unlike the last two games we were in.

Gets scum read for said excitement.

#reck

UNVOTE:

[Not Known 15]

Ah now I know why it wasn't obvious... I made a mistake.

[Not Known 15]

Confident in this vote.

How confident would you say you are? I think the Mala vote was very opportunistic but they've only made about four posts so far.

Oh really?
Why is voting obvious scum opportunistic?

Maybe it's my generally cautious approach to games early on but I rarely think anyone is "obvious" mafia early on, there's a case to be made from Mala but I'm far from convinced by any case arguing they're definitively scum at this point.

You've jumped into the game and pretty immediately tagged a vote onto the player currently under the most heat so far, if you end up sticking to your guns and really believe this then fair enough, but it'd be a convenient wagon for mafia to be on if Mala ends up being town, and at the very least allows you to look like you're pushing a suspected player if the wagon falls away a bit going forward.

I believed it until the recent mala post.
But yes I see where this is coming from.

[Not Known 15]

Ah now I know why it wasn't obvious... I made a mistake.

Not completely getting what you missed originally re Mala, and why you've flipped here? The chain of events seemed pretty easy to follow re how they'd played and why they had come under pressure.

I missed that mala might have not meant being town with jv as both being town but rather as being town with jv present.
Something I saw when checking it after the last mala post before my unvote.

[Not Known 15]

Ah now I know why it wasn't obvious... I made a mistake.

Not completely getting what you missed originally re Mala, and why you've flipped here? The chain of events seemed pretty easy to follow re how they'd played and why they had come under pressure.

I missed that mala might have not meant being town with jv as both being town but rather as being town with jv present.
Something I saw when checking it after the last mala post before my unvote.

Fair enough, I'm just not seeing why this one detail would have made Mala go from "obvious" mafia so early on in the game to not being worthy of a vote?

Missing that detail makes it a near 100% scum slot.
With that detail and that, in hindsight, their progression makes sense under the other possibility, plus a slightly towny reply...

[Not Known 15]

Only explanation I can think of is Mala doesn't think Koopa's play in general is scummy but that the vote itself is.

But yeah major discrepancy, good spot.

Why are you answering for mala instead of waiting for the reply?

[Not Known 15]

I don't see the correlation between self consciousness and wolfiness, unless you are saying Mala is normally *not* self conscious as villager.
Is that something you have seen success with using to read people on this site, Roden?

Idk who's alt you are but this post is skeeving me out for some reason

Last time I played with Mala, she rolled scum, and her day play felt very self conscious there as well, with a pinch of "I don't do X as scum"

I am an alt, in the sense I am not using the name normally associated with my main identity, but I am a stranger to this website.

Re:Mala; Could you say the same is absent from their town meta as well, because you have only opened up the possibility of this being their wolfgame based on this minor tell, but it is only useful if it is a polarized tell.

I think letting mala breathe for now and keeping an eye on the slot is the right play here, fwiw.

I think there is a decent chance of mala being wolf after the follow up response, but I will attempt to play the good cop.

Mala, could you provide at least, as a token of good faith and open show of your thought processes, an ordered list of the players and how you would rank them from more villagery(towny) to most wolfy? If you include a break in the list to indicate a "null line" that would also help immensely, thank you.

I think there is a decent chance of mala being wolf after the follow up response, but I will attempt to play the good cop.

Mala, could you provide at least, as a token of good faith and open show of your thought processes, an ordered list of the players and how you would rank them from more villagery(towny) to most wolfy? If you include a break in the list to indicate a "null line" that would also help immensely, thank you.

off page 4 -- i wont have solid reads and i seriously hate "forcing" reads this early on just b/c

early D1 i go by gut

majority of these players are new 2 me so i wont even have a decent read

the only ones i ahve played with ebfore are {FL, Roden, JV}

It's not forcing reads - it's ranking the players. It at least gives us a baseline into where you are thinking, with at least gut.

I'll grant you an incentive: VOTE: Mala

Please respond to the accusation in more detail.

[Not Known 15]

koopa prob town

I gotta agree

although there's posts I don't like, but overall it's got a tone feel

so gut says town

The most scummiest votes on my wagon is NK15 & koopa.

This has me confused, I'm curious as to your thought process between these. What changed your mind on koopa being prob town to one of the scummiest votes on your wagon in the subsequent 9 posts?

This accusation.

[Not Known 15]

Ah now I know why it wasn't obvious... I made a mistake.

Not completely getting what you missed originally re Mala, and why you've flipped here? The chain of events seemed pretty easy to follow re how they'd played and why they had come under pressure.

I missed that mala might have not meant being town with jv as both being town but rather as being town with jv present.
Something I saw when checking it after the last mala post before my unvote.

Fair enough, I'm just not seeing why this one detail would have made Mala go from "obvious" mafia so early on in the game to not being worthy of a vote?

Missing that detail makes it a near 100% scum slot.
With that detail and that, in hindsight, their progression makes sense under the other possibility, plus a slightly towny reply...

Then obv you missed it even after my second post is my thought process just not outlined like my other post

BACKPEDAS

I don't understand this post.

[Not Known 15]

Only explanation I can think of is Mala doesn't think Koopa's play in general is scummy but that the vote itself is.

But yeah major discrepancy, good spot.

Why are you answering for mala instead of waiting for the reply?

I'm putting out a possible explanation as to why they could say that, they are of course welcome to clarify whether that is correct.

That's generally anti-town because it could give scum an excuse they didn't think of...

[Not Known 15]

I think Facebones is a villager in all worlds I'm currently considering.
I'd like to poll peoples current thoughts on Scorpious if possible

Scorpious:Lurker.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Malakittens
This one is pretty obvious.

I missed this one. What’s obvious?

Read my iso.

[Not Known 15]

I don't particularly agree with players making big detailed lists of who they think is town/mafia early on like Koopa - it often feels a bit forced in a way that feels unnatural, ultimately none of our reads are going to be that bulletproof at this point in the game. But by the same token I can see the value in sometimes just throwing something out there to see if it sticks early on to force some interactions, so I'm not particularly reading Koopa as overly mafia right now.

Agreed that Mala's interactions feel very caged so far and the "lighten up, it's day one" type stuff feels like a major deflection which wants to make others players feel wary about going in too heavily without addressing the substance of any accusatory posts. But I also get how that frustration could be genuine, so a slot to keep an eye on for now.

My main reason why I disagree with Koopa in placing pressure on me in order to give reads is I know if I try to do a readlist it's forced upon me in order to "produce content/reads". It's very unnatural for me to post a read list this early esp on page 4 when we don't have a lot of solid content. Now if I wasn't town or if he was doing this to another player I'd maybe go for a scumbuddy coaching another scumbuddy, but he's doing it to my slot.

I'm not really deflecting. I'm trying to move the game forward, but everyone keep harping on the current subject is just giving either one of two oppurnities for scum to either "lurk" or jump in order to look like they are being productive.

Also I don't think roden is scum for what's happening right now. I think him and I are at a T v T fight.

Ahh dang it Mala. I’ve done this as scum/wolf. Townread your attacker to try and soften the attack since people live to be townread. Ugh. Tell me I’m wrong.

Anyway I gotta go. I know I missed some things, but I’ll be back later. Ciao.

Granted it's early game and I'm not going to judge anyone not taking completely firm reads at this point too harshly

Too harshly? Why harshly at all?

[Not Known 15]

Italiano, where's that Scorpious read coming from?

This has not been answered.

[Not Known 15]

Spoiler: Ctrl+F Roden

Roden and Italian are the two that I've sniffed some scum energy on thus far. Too early to tell if that's accurate or not, because at least with Italian I've seen a few townie energy auras coming off of em.

If you really want me to put a way too early readslist, here ya go.

Malakittens
Scorpious
Koopashell
Not Known 15

MalcolmTucker
JacksonVirgo
KittyTacky
humaneatingmonkey

Facebones
Saladman27

ItalianoVD
Roden

No order within tiers. I usually have a Red color on the bottom, and that is not present here. Orange is just lower than neutral in Facebones/Salad. I dont expect to be right this early. Green are people I'm confident at the moment are town, but it's like Page 9, this can easily flip.

Blue are people I haven't seen anything that stood out to me negatively, and didn't mind their tones.

I expect scum to be spreadout throughout the tiers based on what social dynamics and positioning are happening.

Roden being scum actually makes Human scum more likely here as well if Italiano/Koopa are both town.

But I dont have that complex a read on Roden, just early game natural positioning by everyone in relation to where I was.

I'd say I'm more onto Human Red tier, and Italiano blue tier right now, though.

The antenna line also made a Koopa-FL an in game connection, like it was then trying to put us on some type of stage to either be scum read together, or cause a TvS.

Again yeah. Reading that early interaction between you too pinged me. Even though it was sorta RVS, it just didn't seem like anything. And it was more koopa than you.

Yeah, italiano is green now.

This is me green'ing italiano while noting that this is exactly the best way a scum italiano could have gotten out of my scum read on them.

No doubt the Human interaction opened up my perspective on the overall gamestate.

Human/Roden + 2 less active players is my way too early solve.

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction, and also all based individually as well.

In that order for me.

Ok this is probably why I didn't remember who scum read me and why. There hasn't been a substantial reason or push given yet even though all roads apparently lead to me.

Leaf, what's up?

Yes please share that reasoning with us.

[Not Known 15]

Koopa, what makes FL villagery for you?

[Not Known 15]

Early solve attempt is Koopa, HEM, and most likely one of the quiet ones..

Could be as simple Facebones.. but that’s reachy this early.

Explain these reads in detail please.

[Not Known 15]

Especially the HEM read and why you think that koopa/hem is SVS.

[Not Known 15]

Spoiler: Ctrl+F Roden

Roden and Italian are the two that I've sniffed some scum energy on thus far. Too early to tell if that's accurate or not, because at least with Italian I've seen a few townie energy auras coming off of em.

If you really want me to put a way too early readslist, here ya go.
FL
This still needs an answer!

Malakittens
Scorpious
Koopashell
Not Known 15

MalcolmTucker
JacksonVirgo
KittyTacky
humaneatingmonkey

Facebones
Saladman27

ItalianoVD
Roden

No order within tiers. I usually have a Red color on the bottom, and that is not present here. Orange is just lower than neutral in Facebones/Salad. I dont expect to be right this early. Green are people I'm confident at the moment are town, but it's like Page 9, this can easily flip.

Blue are people I haven't seen anything that stood out to me negatively, and didn't mind their tones.

I expect scum to be spreadout throughout the tiers based on what social dynamics and positioning are happening.

Roden being scum actually makes Human scum more likely here as well if Italiano/Koopa are both town.

But I dont have that complex a read on Roden, just early game natural positioning by everyone in relation to where I was.

I'd say I'm more onto Human Red tier, and Italiano blue tier right now, though.

The antenna line also made a Koopa-FL an in game connection, like it was then trying to put us on some type of stage to either be scum read together, or cause a TvS.

Again yeah. Reading that early interaction between you too pinged me. Even though it was sorta RVS, it just didn't seem like anything. And it was more koopa than you.

Yeah, italiano is green now.

This is me green'ing italiano while noting that this is exactly the best way a scum italiano could have gotten out of my scum read on them.

No doubt the Human interaction opened up my perspective on the overall gamestate.

Human/Roden + 2 less active players is my way too early solve.

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction, and also all based individually as well.

In that order for me.

Ok this is probably why I didn't remember who scum read me and why. There hasn't been a substantial reason or push given yet even though all roads apparently lead to me.

Leaf, what's up?

Yes please share that reasoning with us.

[Not Known 15]

Start answering the question FL...

[Not Known 15]

In other words:Your Roden

read

was BS.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Not Known 15]

This is a policy vote.

[Not Known 15]

This is a policy vote.

No it's not. You literally just gave a reason.

Yes, a policy reason. I assume you lie about your reads as town and scum, and that's enough for a policy vote.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: scorpious
Although? I'm being honest, the subtle emotion I can sense behind your words feels genuine and not wolfy.

Yeah, I feel I'm obv town, tbh. You know I'm town, you just let emotions take over you. Happens to everyone.

Pocketing.

[Not Known 15]

I expect NK15 to join my wagon, maybe Kitty.

A neutral could probably join.

It's very possible I'm faded.

That's just not a possibility to happen on Day 1 if I were scum. Can hate that as a reason all you want, my town flip would prove that to be true and completely break your "im right most of the time" self meta, making your first push over here an incorrect push.

Self fulfilling prophecy, ATE.

[Not Known 15]

@Not Known 15 - Have you ever pushed a policy vote as scum before?

Yes.

[Not Known 15]

It isnt one anymore though.

[Not Known 15]

'twas just a buzz word you used.

No.
You said you don't lie about reads as town. So you are scum, then, because you lied about your roden read. If you are town: Where am I wrong?

[Not Known 15]

'twas just a buzz word you used.

No.
You said you don't lie about reads as town. So you are scum, then, because you lied about your roden read. If you are town: Where am I wrong?

eh, semantics. You're looking into it in a black and white fashion when I'm very obviously a rainbow.

Translate this for me...

[Not Known 15]

Well... what are your current and past gamestate reads and their reasons, then?

[Not Known 15]

For the most part, i always give my thoughts on reads, like I’m better at doing that as scum than town even.

If i don’t, that means it’s more tone/gut/gamestate from my pov.

If anything, it’s like a list so people can know where my head’s at.

Refusing to give reasons isn’t scummy because as scum, I could easily make some shit up that people would like, let’s be honest. I got the gift of gab, and it’s one of my best strengths as scum.

So you are saying that your roden read was based fully on gamestate and think that explaining your gamestate assumptions will do more harm than good. Is this correct?

[Not Known 15]

I would say the lack of reasoning now helped the game get a better read on you. Would you disagree?

The problem is if everyone does that it helps scum immensely.

[Not Known 15]

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction, and also all based individually as well.

In that order for me.

Now you need to explain why you classified the roden read here as individually.

[Not Known 15]

I do have a suggestion that we should stop focusing on FL, myself, and monkey. I'm going to probably tone down my posting massively. I want other slots discussed because this is choking the gamestate.

I am nearly finished.

[Not Known 15]

Fl is town

What makes FL town to you?

[Not Known 15]

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction, and also all based individually as well.

In that order for me.

Now you need to explain why you classified the roden read here as individually.

I am still waiting for an answer!

[Not Known 15]

For the most part, i always give my thoughts on reads, like I’m better at doing that as scum than town even.

If i don’t, that means it’s more tone/gut/gamestate from my pov.

If anything, it’s like a list so people can know where my head’s at.

Refusing to give reasons isn’t scummy because as scum, I could easily make some shit up that people would like, let’s be honest. I got the gift of gab, and it’s one of my best strengths as scum.

So you are saying that your roden read was based fully on gamestate and think that explaining your gamestate assumptions will do more harm than good. Is this correct?

It’s more in the line of “not sure how to put it into words, but i have this energy feeling it here”

Do you think it puts me in a better position to not explain?

Do you think I wouldn’t be able to put together something as scum that would have most players in the game feel acceptable considering the time it was spent?

Kinda over this conversation overall, this was like pre page 10 stuff, seems like you’re making a lot out of a little, which could be your way of getting deeper integrated into the game, so i guess it’s fine

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction, and also all based individually as well.

In that order for me.

Now you need to explain why you classified the roden read here as individually.

After this FL became evasive about what I had uncovered. FL didn't say "I don't remember why" but said "let's move on" because they didn't have an answer, even after re-questioning.
FL is scum.

[Not Known 15]

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction, and also all based individually as well.

In that order for me.

Now you need to explain why you classified the roden read here as individually.

I am still waiting for an answer!

Way past Roden. Don’t be dense, there was a large 1v1 between them and I even

This is what basically says move on, evading a concrete answer.

[Not Known 15]

Malcom
Fence-sitting, a massive amount of softened reads and non-committal stances(a seems scummy but b) You can see some of this in town, but not to this extent.

Very likely mafia keeping their options open.

Koopa
For now, town due to 948.
If Italiano is scum this slot is locktown.

Scorpious
I hate this ISO. It's horrible.
Half of it is complaints about activity pushes and meta usage, an unexplained read.
But 825 really looks like someone exhausted and annoyed from getting yet another red pm.

probably scum.

Mathblade/Facebones

Null.

Italiano
Italiano is pushing HEM like a partner. Distancing but reluctance to vote.
Then there is post 948.

probably scum.

Kitty
A bit towny, good pushes.

JacksonVirgo

Tells us that they would be more in game if scum but attribute non-committance to being busy with RL.
Three reads. A koopa read that flipped in a very strange way from town to scum, one that really doesn't look right.
The read on me didn't evolve at all.

Likely scum.

FL

Likely scum.

Mala
I need to know where Mala currently stands on FL and where this early townread on FL comes from.

Null for now.

Andresvmb/Saladman

Lurkslot.

HEM

HEM is focused on a few people, and pushes mala/italiano/FL.
His votes are never on Italiano though. This really looks like Italiano/HEM distancing from each other.
HEM 's play is totally different than another recent towngame.

Very likely scum.

Roden
Not seeing anything sus here, and not S/S with HEM.

null.

[Not Known 15]

This re-read produced way too many scumreads. HEM/Italiano stand out, though.

VOTE: HEM

[Not Known 15]

@everyone

We should stop here for a moment(1 day or so) and everyone posts readslists and then we can discuss more.

[Not Known 15]

I did a re-read, and I didn't ISO HEM before, that's why.
You'll notice that I have way too many scumreads after that re-read.

Which means that I am definitely not concerned about scumreads on my own wagon.

[Not Known 15]

JacksonVirgo, provide a full readslist.

[Not Known 15]

NK15 can you explain how different you think my play is here vs the other game that just finished

You ask less questions about the reads of others.

[Not Known 15]

VC 1.20

With 13 players, it takes 7 to make a decision. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-04-25 00:30:00).

VC

Malakittens [3]:

humaneatingmonkey [792], Roden [804], KittyTacky [805]

Roden [2]:

Flavor Leaf [859], ItalianoVD [888]

koopashell [1]:

JacksonVirgo [820]

Flavor Leaf [1]:

Not Known 15 [620]

humaneatingmonkey [1]:

MalcolmTucker [868]

KittyTacky [1]:

koopashell [959]

Not voting [4]:

Andresvmb, Malakittens [561], MathBlade [1066], Scorpious [1122]

Yeah I don't think HEM and NK15 are both mafia but increasingly convinced one of them will be. NK15's sudden mafia read on HEM could be a desperate attempt to move the pressure away from them certainly.

Away from whom?

[Not Known 15]

@everyone

We should stop here for a moment(1 day or so) and everyone posts readslists and then we can discuss more.

I am not really a reads list guy I am more a potential trans guy. If I stop catching up (as it is I am 5 pages behind and I have to start work now) then I would be doing so inaccurately as well. Therefore I will not do this.

What makes you post in this game and not in the prior game you were vigged?

The other game is finished. There is no rush.

[Not Known 15]

@everyone

We should stop here for a moment(1 day or so) and everyone posts readslists and then we can discuss more.

I am not really a reads list guy I am more a potential trans guy. If I stop catching up (as it is I am 5 pages behind and I have to start work now) then I would be doing so inaccurately as well. Therefore I will not do this.

What makes you post in this game and not in the prior game you were vigged?

The other game is finished. There is no rush.

You either fail to understand my point or are intentionally dense.

I know that game finished I replaced into it.

During that game you did not post.
This game you are posting.

What is the difference as to why?

WTF?
VOTE: Mathblade
I was

dead

when he replaced in. This is mudslinging.

[Not Known 15]

@everyone

We should stop here for a moment(1 day or so) and everyone posts readslists and then we can discuss more.

I am not really a reads list guy I am more a potential trans guy. If I stop catching up (as it is I am 5 pages behind and I have to start work now) then I would be doing so inaccurately as well. Therefore I will not do this.

What makes you post in this game and not in the prior game you were vigged?

The other game is finished. There is no rush.

You either fail to understand my point or are intentionally dense.

I know that game finished I replaced into it.

During that game you did not post.
This game you are posting.

What is the difference as to why?

WTF?
VOTE: Mathblade
I was

dead

when he replaced in. This is mudslinging.

Yes. You were.

You were a lurker in the game.

You had like zero if not zero posts in the hood.

VOTE: HEM
Ok back on track.
Math, that lurker accusation is still BS but at least I see where it is coming from.
I didn't post in the hood because I didn't want to, but I did post in thread. And I did not lurk.

[Not Known 15]

NK15 - do you actually think Math is mafia, or is that a frustration vote?

It was partly anger, partly misrep based.

[Not Known 15]

I think I am at E-2 or so....

[Not Known 15]

and I don't have much time.

[Not Known 15]

I think I am at E-2 or so....

Sheep us on Kitty then.

Can you give me a reason other than survival because I don't scumread Kitty.

[Not Known 15]

There is no reasonable explanation why FL moved up hem in his reads - HEM has added nothing different. However roden is stuck on the bottom somehow.

ugh, if you werent so egocentric i wouldnt care that you're so newbie with statements like this.

FL, how much do you think has the gamestate been manipulated by scum today?

[Not Known 15]

clearly just in your own delusional little cloud ignoring what people say if it doesnt align with you even though youve flip flopped more than anyone else in this game.

i rarely break past my breaking point and can usually hold back, but damn.

just found a new level i didnt know existed with lines like that.

You could, you know, easily accomodate koopa's problems, if you just explained your reads every single time.

[Not Known 15]

There's at least one scum read you both had though. HEM.

[Not Known 15]

OMG KOOPA
AND FL

STOP

PLEASE

[Not Known 15]

The fact I had a solid case means it's probably not scum too.

I have a tendency to tunnel Day 1 onto a townie near a scum, and that's how I got to Roden initially.

What does near a scum mean?

[Not Known 15]

Roden

and Italian are the two that

I've sniffed some scum energy on

thus far. Too early to tell if that's accurate or not, because at least with Italian I've seen a few townie energy auras coming off of em.

it was more i felt it at the time, then stopped feeling it. the more you talk, the more i actually start to scum read Roden again, though.

Mainly because the more you talk the more I'm getting a feeling you might be town who's just looking at the game in black and white.

I get my reads through direct interaction.

Otherwise it's mainly gamestate reads from the perspective I have at the time I give the read.

Roden was all gamestate reads at the time since I hadn't interacted with them.

Scum manipulate gamestate, so by looking at my past gamestate reads in the future, I can look to see where scum were manipulating things as the days go on.

these 2 posts

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction,

and also all based individually

as well.

In that order for me.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Uh, about that...

Yes?
Koopa is right.
FL talked BS, and I had the evidence to back it up further.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Uh, about that...

Yes?
Koopa is right.
FL talked BS, and I had the evidence to back it up further.

Flavor is no longer in the game.

VOTE: GammaEmerald

[Not Known 15]

Koopa - in the nicest possible way, if you choke the gamestate to this extent then some of us are just going to find it incredibly hard to read and catch up. You are allowed to make your points and move on. Please stop asserting that you have definitively "caught" someone, if you are town then this is extraordinarily unlikely for even the best of players.

I do still think Koopa is town but I'm finding their reads incredibly unreliable and based on attempts to confirm their own bias. They spot a supposed small slip from Flavor on their Roden read without acknowledging that reads can evolve and change. I'd wager almost every player will almost have some inconsistency in how they perceive players because, again, reads evolve and change, and people often express themselves in different ways at times in ways that can become confused. Koopa will also use previous meta as a reason to excuse a player like NK15 but unless they are dedicating every waking moment they have to this game their meta info on some players in the game will clearly be quite limited. That's fine, it's useful for context, but please stop using these meta reads for a definitive outlook on the game.

Gamma's posts make me even more confident than I was before that the slot is town. I felt Flavor was town anyway but if Gamma was mafia they would likely want to keep me onside if I had the wrong read of them. Gamma's post that I'm on their radar interested me because it feels like a townie player having a genuinely different read from their predecessor.

I'll back either a Kitty/Nk15 wagon today, I think the latter is more obvious but still feels a bit obvious given it's D1. I think it's very possible that Kitty could be hanging back a bit more to differentiate from other members of their team, and I don't see any reason the two couldn't be teammates given interactions and posts since the idea of either of them as main wagon was floated.

Jackson is town for me and I think anyone pushing there is wasting energy. The claim was genuine and before that Jackson had already expressed concerns that Koopa was misreading potential roles in the game which troubled them. I don't think Scorpious has been approaching the game as mafia would but I don't like that they've now pushed two role claimed players.

Yes, people's reads can change. They can even have inconsistencies despite being town, however...
FL didn't react well on these inconsistencies. Instead of admitting them, FL dismissed my concerns and indirectly told me to look somewhere else.
Gamma's 2220 is scummy. That linked game seems to show FL being yeeted after a blunder as town as evidence for towniness.
It is not. In that game, FL was close to e-1, claimed... and got down, later yeeted. FL has been pushed, but not even close to e-1 . There, FL made an error not really indicative of scum(trying to hammer someone at e-2).

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: NK15

Does anyone TR NK15? If so why?

I have seen a lot of wanting NK15 but not actually voting NK15 which is a sign of a wagon on scum.

How do you look at the latest string of posts from him and think hes wolfy

Because he’s pushing on Gamma/FL slot which is obvTown imho. You really seem to be in a conf bias tunnel.

Yes you’ve been working a lot but it’s more screaming and shouting down those who don’t agree.

I townread everyone on the wagon. Works for me.

And FL is obvtown for which reasons, MathBlade?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: NK15

Does anyone TR NK15? If so why?

I have seen a lot of wanting NK15 but not actually voting NK15 which is a sign of a wagon on scum.

How do you look at the latest string of posts from him and think hes wolfy

Because he’s pushing on Gamma/FL slot which is obvTown imho. You really seem to be in a conf bias tunnel.

Yes you’ve been working a lot but it’s more screaming and shouting down those who don’t agree.

I townread everyone on the wagon. Works for me.

And FL is obvtown for which reasons, MathBlade?

Knowing him for about 5 years and his different meta.
Gamma actually posted. He lurks a lot as scum.

The last one is definitively not obvtown material, it's just one string of posts.
About FL meta... what's different, here, from fl's scum meta?

[Not Known 15]

NK15 stopped pushing Mala after she posted a bunch of game advancing content - how is that bad?

I too flipped my read based on that -
This isnt about inconsistency in reads - this is straight up having no real reason for the read and pretending like they do.

This is not why they stopped pushing Mala, they stopped pushing Mala because they claimed to have missed a post from them early game re their reasons for supposedly being happy to be town with JV. They went from seeing Mala as "obvious" scum to dropping the read incredibly early on.

Correct. I saw a scumslip that wasn't really there. My concerns were addressed.
In contrast, my concerns with FL's read progression and their reaction to my initial concerns were not addressed.

[Not Known 15]

I expect an apology when I end up being right about FL.

You said similar about Mala.

You’re the boy who claimed wolf who refuses to explain their NK15 read.

It creates spam and bloat so a wagon can’t take off.

Please work with people.

And no if FL flips scum you get no apology from me because even if you believe this FL has two buddies, who are they?

VOTE: HEM
Let's drop FL for now. But please do reevaluate your reads on the FL slot later.

[Not Known 15]

Gamma, Italian, Andres and NK.

All of which are in the PoE. I took Italiano out of the question temporarily. This is the pure PoE if all my reads up until this point are correct, which I do not believe is the case anymore. NK red leads to Koopa red which leads to Andres green. Not sure where I'd go from that point but in that case the remaining is currently in my brain as Gamma/Italian.

Where does NK green lead to?

[Not Known 15]

Scorp did you ever respond to my post trying to convince ya?

JV you said that gamma is in your poe. Where is that read coming from?

[Not Known 15]

If you think there's something off about the match of the claims, it would be me that's scum. As I made a claim that fits with theirs strongly. Now that I think about this, I am now just confident that koopa is the type of Town to be manipulative in nature and I think they're again back on my top towns, just not a currently effective one.

Er, careful. The role you claimed also fits to a mafia Gunsmith.

[Not Known 15]

I think this discussion can be relegated until a massclaim or another pr claim comes forward.

[Not Known 15]

Gamma, Italian, Andres and NK.

All of which are in the PoE. I took Italiano out of the question temporarily. This is the pure PoE if all my reads up until this point are correct, which I do not believe is the case anymore. NK red leads to Koopa red which leads to Andres green. Not sure where I'd go from that point but in that case the remaining is currently in my brain as Gamma/Italian.

Italian. Why do you think that Italian might be scum(not that I disagree)

[Not Known 15]

JV, why is HEM outside your POE?

[Not Known 15]

I want to express I feel a lot of undue pressure to "get it right" today. My brain is arguing with itself saying that letting NK15 is the best choice because in the case of them being a wolf it at least gets a wolf down and if they are town it lets us not be a chained mislim.
Because if I am wrong on my pushes - and they go through- wolves could concievably leave me alive to be pushed.
In that regard, anyone who has shaded me is a candiate for being a wolf *if* i get roleblocked in that scenario. I have a fear that is what will happen then, and holistic analysis will go out the window in favor of bias.
So know that I have been extemely careful in who I want eliminated at this phase - and why it is only 2 people- as if I miss, I potentially mess up the game. I am gated so i do have some relief there that I won't be blocked if kept alive and at least I can confirm someone.

This doesn't make sense to me. Please explain.

[Not Known 15]

He has a weird playstyle. That doesn't make him wolf.

Case closed. When he was pushed he kept posting normally. He did not shrink back. Like come the fuck on guys - this is so lazy. NK15 plays different so he is easy to eliminate - his wolf games are very subdued and he is not subdued here.

How come this applies to NK15 but not FL?

I dont wolfread FL for playstyle.

It really seems like you do! You’re calling him a wolf for not explaining his Roden take, when it’s been established he doesn’t do that as town.

Wait, he doesn't do that as town? You mean he doesn't do that as scum, right?

[Not Known 15]

hey i'm really swamped

let's not rush an elim.

Andres you can catch up, we have time.

game-advancing content: Mala avoided our engagement, and didn't answer my question about their FL townread satisfactory. This is scum, and I don't know what happened that I'm the only one in here.

bite me

a lot of it is tone + gut + knowing FL iRL

so I'm really sorry that it's not satisfactory to you, but it's good enough for me to go on with D1.

[Not Known 15]

okay but has she referred to which posts pings her as town from tone?

Read her iso, it is short...

No.

[Not Known 15]

you mean to say people really dropped their Malakittens scumread without her explaining the FL townread?

NK15 and Roden, explain your shifts.

It wasn't the reason for my scumread, I think. Lots of people were not explaining reads at that point.

[Not Known 15]

I thought Mala had TMI on JV because i overlooked an explanation.

[Not Known 15]

Also I reread an old game with NK15 I played in and I'm starting to think my reading method for NK15 was a fluke. I'm turning around on NK15 scum - It also explains why I am the only one really going to bat for the slot, because scum are likely already planning on bussing IMHO.

Old game and meta?

Bad

idea.

[Not Known 15]

Hello Italiano - I would like you to explain why you were townleaning NK15 ->

At this point I’m thinking Scorpious and koopa or just emotional town battling for ego. @koopa: I’m getting a better understanding of how you play and why you do what you do.

Town: Malcolm, Scorpious
Townlean: Leaf, koopa, mala, nk15
Neutral: HEM, Andres, Math
Scumlean: Roden, kitty, jacksonvirgo

here.

Good idea.

[Not Known 15]

JacksonVirgo
MathBlade
MalcolmTucker
Gamma Emerald
Malakittens
Roden
Scorpious
KittyTacky
ItalianoVD
Andresvmb
Not Known 15

current vibes

Well, there we go.
I am a town pr btw. An investigative one, no less.

[Not Known 15]

Lazy tracker.

[Not Known 15]

Yeah we might as well massclaim by now:(

[Not Known 15]

Well.
Now that I had to claim...
ItalianoVD/HEM are SvS. Discuss.

[Not Known 15]

Nah, still not feeling Mala.

Can you explain this in more detail?

[Not Known 15]

Someone said that andres has a very lurky scum meta. How is it different fom andres town lurk meta?

[Not Known 15]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642
Did a meta dive on italiano to see if I could eliminate them from my PoE - looks like this game, is similar to this one in terms of play.
There are low intensity wolf and town games too I saw - but this stood out. I read their ISO and thought similar things I did here. They pushed players in a similar way.

Scorpious, can you give us a readslist please?

[Not Known 15]

Scorpious, please explain your ItalianoVD read.

[Not Known 15]

What is your limpool? I am sorry I know it’s probably obvious but with the amount of posts it’s all confused in my head.

Sorry just found this.

Limpool: Kitty, Roden, HEM

And how do you categorize the rest?

[Not Known 15]

First off Math, you asked me 2 questions I missed this one. And there was a flurry of activity, you can’t argue that.

And you are totally twisting this..

I said I think one of them is lying again. How dare I not believe all 3 town pr claims on D1?

This is weak play by your standards..

My questions was not whether or not you believe the claims:
My question was why you thought they were

town

and lying?

Town? Why town?

[Not Known 15]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642
Did a meta dive on italiano to see if I could eliminate them from my PoE - looks like this game, is similar to this one in terms of play.
There are low intensity wolf and town games too I saw - but this stood out. I read their ISO and thought similar things I did here. They pushed players in a similar way.

Scorpious, can you give us a readslist please?

I hate lists, although FL made me like them a bit..

I recommend the entire Foundation series by Asimov
All of Shakespeare is essential
The Expanse series is probably my favorite Space opera
Game of Thrones was a great read but I had to take notes. Sooo many characters…

Ohhh, the game… list. Not rankings

Big T’s
————
Mala
Italiano
HEM
You

Little t’s
————
koopa(only because claim)
Jv(same reason)
Nk15(this is ridiculous)
Note: one of these is lying

Scums
————
Kitty
Math
GE

I have not focused on Roden or Malcom at all admittedly..

Care to explain why you think one of the little t’s are town lying versus scum lying?
I also don’t get why I am in your scum PoE?

Like this is really confusing.
Do you think there’s four scum or something?
I don’t see how this works.

@NK15
Because Scorpious has them as town in their wall

It looks like a 1 scum 2 town read for me

[Not Known 15]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642
Did a meta dive on italiano to see if I could eliminate them from my PoE - looks like this game, is similar to this one in terms of play.
There are low intensity wolf and town games too I saw - but this stood out. I read their ISO and thought similar things I did here. They pushed players in a similar way.

Scorpious, can you give us a readslist please?

I hate lists, although FL made me like them a bit..

I recommend the entire Foundation series by Asimov
All of Shakespeare is essential
The Expanse series is probably my favorite Space opera
Game of Thrones was a great read but I had to take notes. Sooo many characters…

Ohhh, the game… list. Not rankings

Big T’s
————
Mala
Italiano
HEM
You

Little t’s
————
koopa(only because claim)
Jv(same reason)
Nk15(this is ridiculous)
Note: one of these is lying

Scums
————
Kitty
Math
GE

I have not focused on Roden or Malcom at all admittedly..

Care to explain why you think one of the little t’s are town lying versus scum lying?
I also don’t get why I am in your scum PoE?

Like this is really confusing.
Do you think there’s four scum or something?
I don’t see how this works.

@NK15
Because Scorpious has them as town in their wall

It looks like a 1 scum 2 town read for me

Which in that case I asked him whether he thought four scum, to which Scorpious has not answered.

I noticed that I am in this list twice, once as "you" and once as nk 15.
VOTE: Scorpious

[Not Known 15]

MathBlade is town. MalcolmTucker is null. Scorpious is scum.

[Not Known 15]

MathBlade is town. MalcolmTucker is null. Scorpious is scum.

Revisit this on D2..

Do you really think that that explanation on their state in the game comes from scum? No, it doesn't.

[Not Known 15]

one of 3 town investigative

three investigatives? how do you know JV is an investigative? did someone else claim?

JV is claiming backup of a gunsmith guilty, but that doesn't mean that that role exists. JV unvoted after my claim, and jv knows more than koopa(if town).

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Andresvmb

Guilty!

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Andresvmb

Guilty!

[Not Known 15]

The only read Andres had was Kitty town in his ISO. I think Kitty has some explaining to do.

Depends. Look at Andres meta first.
If andres only mentions town, usually, when lurking...

[Not Known 15]

There was an effort to get andres yeeted so the wagon positioning and the scorpious push need to be carefully evaluated.

[Not Known 15]

I don't know if he's widely suspected.

It was only

koopa and

I

that was interested

in an Andres flashwagon

. He was widely ignored, more accurately.

I was townreading him.

??? Explain.

[Not Known 15]

I think the possibility is remote (hence why still on Andres). It’s more I don’t get why they didn’t wait until Andres posted first. They were immediately “guilty”. This denies a lot of activity for D2

I didn't want to have to claim that under pressure then get limmed.

[Not Known 15]

Math, why do you think scum has to have a roleblocker against an Odd-Night Gunsmith(with potential false clears and guilties) and a Lazy Tracker?

[Not Known 15]

If every player was a false inno then Koopa likely doesn’t die.

In that world you die.

Yeah I agree, but two guilties with low probability vs 3 scum and no roleblocker is Normal.

[Not Known 15]

If every player was a false inno then Koopa likely doesn’t die.

In that world you die.

Yeah I agree, but two guilties with low probability vs 3 scum and no roleblocker is Normal.

It’s two guilties with moderate to high probability is not normal. I think we will agree to disagree here.

I don’t think the probability is high or moderate, and the NRG has greenlit Odd-Night Cop plus ungated Watcher in the past... without an opposing roleblocker.

[Not Known 15]

Nah I just poisoned the well.

The setup has way too much TPR.

A newbie game gives scum a roleblocker against cop doc. This has two cops and a half doc.

So yeah definitely needed something to help there.

No, I don't think that this setup had too much TPR.
But it had too much ITPR.
2 investigative roles + 1 gated Jailkeeper is way too much investigative and roleblocking power. In the worst case you get full guilties(against every single mafia).

[Not Known 15]

NRG doesnt balance against the "worst case scenario" fwiw and goes for the average expected.

It's not a case of balance. It is a case of normalcry.