Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[clidd]

I'm not sure if that is the hammer but quickly before I go to work, last words are that I think Dripping is probably town at this point. This is too suicidal. If that wasn't the hammer, we need to think a bit before doing anything. They are being very suicidal and I just think at this point, it comes from town.

If DrippingGoofball is scum and that was the hammer, I'm happy to call Dannflor scum for a hammer out of nowhere. Solon's vote is horrible but that was minimegabyte and she was a solid townread of mine. I don't like VFB but I could see them being scum and that's it. Back to the cop on me request please.

And this is just, ugh.

Which part is just ugh?

The reaction of "omg, dgb is town, we need to be careful about what we're going to do", as well as she thinks that a hammer had occurred and that make Dann scum for "??" reasons seemed to me very false, in the sense that I don't think these thoughts are of a healthy-town reasoning. Mini being a solid townread by "??" reasons and her not interpreting Vfb as town (especially considering that Vfb has acted in good faith regarding the suspicion about her) are also things that reflect me as posed, that is, not genuine for town!Amélie think.

[LlamaFluff]

Actually lets do this instead

Vote AliceK

Day one they do nothing in terms of scumhunting. There actually is an over two week span where they are on Entrapa (Dann) and actually never address any reasons or try and gather any other support. Just sits back and says little while others peruse things. Also seems to at most just chainsaw April slot quite a bit.

Day two they show heavy interest in getting a claimed PR ran up, and then moves off the claimed PR for... the player the claimed PR says to have somewhat cleared because that player has a town read on someone. We are on day two. We have multiple claimed PRs. Alice is voting someone, who one of the PRs is saying they have down as clear, because Alice doesnt think there is a reason to have that strong of a town read on the player. Its also just confusing because if you think Solon is lying and never cleared Lotus... the move is to vote Solon.

She has been hesitant to do anything the whole game, attacking a player for being too confident in a town read (which lets me honest, the confidence there doesnt even seem high) and has routinely either refused to or decided not to try and get any sort of a push together to try and move the game in a direction they wanted. This is what scum who is happy keeping a status quo in the game looks like. I feel ive added more to this game in one day than Alice has in one month. This needs to start being the wagon.

[DrippingGoofball]

VOTE: AliceK

[clidd]

Alice is a decent wagon too.

[clidd]

I mean, she's a lhf in my view, but I really have no argument beyond that(and the "she looks like Hypo" thing) to sustain a tr on the slot. I'm just not voting her rn after seeing your points (which are good) to keep some momentum on Amélie's wagon, in case someone sympathizes with my read there.

[LlamaFluff]

I mean, she's a lhf in my view, but I really have no argument beyond that(and the "she looks like Hypo" thing) to sustain a tr on the slot. I'm just not voting her rn after seeing your points (which are good) to keep some momentum on Amélie's wagon, in case someone sympathizes with my read there.

You cant just use lhf when talking about anyone who hasnt been contributing as a reason to pass it off. Maybe the closest you can come to claiming that is if you think it applies to multiple players and im intentionally going after the path of least resistance. Also how are you "sustaining a town read" on Alice? You have had one up until this point?

Just look at the end to day one. Alice is devoting more time into figuring out if bug still thinks she is scum than she is trying to give any opinions on Hypo (literally never mentions him - all of day one). This wagon needs to happen if for no other reason than to force content out of her. Its inexcusable that I have a better idea of what the NKed players reads are than her reads. Her priorities are all over the place, and it doesnt add up with a player who is interested in catching scum. Its more in line with a player who is concerned about how others read them.

@DGB - Can you do me a quick favor and just confirm that you got a "positive" result N1?

[clidd]

"sustaining a town read" is just a way of saying, but yes, I imagined that the slot could be vaguely town, as she's not even trying if she's scum.

[clidd]

I just don't want a repeat of what happened with Hypo on D1, if you get what I mean, although I understand and agree that it is not logical to make room for a slot that is doing nothing.

[clidd]

What you described of "not being interested in finding scum" is a frequent scumtell of newbie!scum and considering that Alice is a newbie, I believe it is compatible with the scum!Alice theory of being concerned only with how she is visualized but not being able to emulate an investigative town reasoning process.

But, again, although it is logically plausible, it does not mean that it is necessarily the case. Alice could also be town acting apathetic and being interpreted as scum.

I'm not against the pressure on her, it is necessary, as you mentioned, but I'm not so comfortable to join the wagon yet.

[Not_Mafia]

Solon has been prodded.

[clidd]

Regardless, the wagon's purpose is still decent, as is the potential for you to be right.

[clidd]

I would appreciate, however, an alternative wagon on Amélie, as I feel that she probably has a more expressive scumrange than Alice and by the most recent reevaluation, has similarity in the catchup format of that scumgame of hers that I mentioned with the current game.

[clidd]

For example,

here:

Spoiler:

A couple posts caught my attention in RVS which is a couple more than normal so I decided I'd include a section for RVS.

14 days gives us plenty of time I don’t think I’ve ever played a game where the first day has been 14 days long

I don't see why you choose to mention this. I did not notice this personally but I don't think it's anything too worthy of noting.

14 days gives us plenty of time I don’t think I’ve ever played a game where the first day has been 14 days long

That's a lot of time indeed. Let's hope we will manage to eliminate Mafia.
VOTE: bugspray

Out of all the votes on bugspray, this is my least favorite because it feels overly self conscious.

heeeeey lmao VOTE: AliceK. why do you think mini pointed out the deadline being long Alice?

I like this vote.

what are your thoughts on 15

I saw this post caught people's attention but it's actually one of the most towny things I've seen bugspray do so I think bugspray is probably town.

To be clear that replace was 100% nai and had nothing to do with this game, pretty sure

Heeyyy clidd !

I don't understand why you chose to say this. I'd ask what you are referencing but if it is against game rules, don't answer.

By the way, I hope you guys have noticed my predecessor's evidently town frustration.

I wouldn't mind getting some town points.

I think clidd is scummier then everyone else that I previously had problems with. This doesn't feel like something he would say.

mini you're so towny lmao. can you get a better pfp bc your current one is pretty maf which doesn't fit. it sounds like clidd repped in thinking art was town so uh, i'm gonna sheep his uninformed read before he repped in and figure he's town. easy.

I take back my townread on this slot for the vote. This conclusion is very strange. Artemia had three posts and I can't even remember what she said in either of the three. Clidd/Gretchen makes a lot of sense given that.

loves your eyes. so easy to lose myself in them...

Posts like this make me think Gretchen is even more scummy

Amelie's gonna come in here like "wtf is this shit that I signed up for"

Who are you? I am not happy with the amount of useless posts I see in this game.

Town: bugspray
Null: Entrapta, Minimegabyte
Scum: Clidd, Gretchen, AliceK

Scumgame:

Spoiler:

Vote count 1.01

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-01-03 15:00:00).

execution

Not_Mafia [2]:

Not_Mafia, Raya36

RedFlavor [1]:

DkKoba

Not Voting [6]:

clidd, Horsewoman, Ahsoka, volxen, RedFlavor, Radja

game state

Doom Counter

is currently at

zero

.
~ With

3

Mafia alive, the Town will be endgamed once they are brought down to

3

members.

Previously published lists:
~ none

mod notes

~ everyone has confirmed!

WAIT THERES 3 MAFIA???

#townslip gang

Hol up so mafia cant kill?

This felt really fake and I am concerned with other people's reactions to it because none of them looked even slightly surprised.

raya if u pocket me rn i promise not to push u today

Consider yourself pocketed

This interaction also feels fake. I'm considering scum theatre as a possibility here.

Ok I bleieve your townslip

I hate this but it does feel more like a confused townie than scum theatre.

who you choose to be friends with says a lot abt u.

motivation for this game coincidentally just dropped 90%.

lowkey can i just policy ur slot lmfao

I'm not sure entirely what this is about but I find this particularly rude.

Maybe other people just read the set-ups they're playing

Interesting. I agree with Not Mafia here. In my last game with him, I couldn't remember a single thing he said that I agreed with.

Hullo! Hope you're all having a great christmas.

It turns out that DKkoba's theory was wrong and redflavor's opened came from town. I liked the theory, I think it's towny that dk thought this long and hard about it, and part of me was just curious enough to know so I decided to replace in when the chance appeared.

This feels show-y. I took a brief glance at the game before I replaced in and was also curious what alignment Radja was but I wasn't planning to say it. This can go in my null for now.

I had a hard scumread on DK in our first game together, but after a while I learned that he plays

like that

in both alignments. Nothing he said in this game, so far, is ai in my opinion.

Please pay attention to pronouns.
What do you mean by "they play like that in both alignments"?
Specifically, what is "that"

Many of Gimli's reads in relation to DK seem like things that I could manufacture as scum to push someone, but I still believe that there is a scenario where he is not used to DK and, by default, interpreted his entire line of action as too weird to be town. I'm waiting to see which way my impression on him will go.

I agree with Gimli on Dkkoba.

last post of the day is a retraction of that ahsoka townlean after much consideration.

in fact I think her entrances in the thread are very bad with the flow of everything and point to scum.

will develop on this read tomorrow.

VOTE: ahsoka

I dislike the timing of this. It is right after clidd says Ashoka isn't obvtowning.

Reads look like this right now:

Town: Redflavor, Not Mafia
Null: Clidd, Gimli
Scum: Dkkoba, Raya36

Gimli and Ashoka's avatars are very similar and I apologize in advance if I start mixing them up.

DK is the type of person who is easily misunderstood if you don't like their post flow, and is a very sensitive slot in terms of what can be considered AI or not. I would say that none of their posts so far have given me the impression of "this is town!DK" or "this is scum!DK", which is why I am warning you (assuming you are town, of course ) to keep an open mind towards them.

What is ai for them then?

gimli basically is approaching my slot in the worst faith possible, and anyone who is skeptical of me = towny.

thats how u can sum up their reading process.

this isnt how town approaches reads.
this is how scum discredits.


as soon as clidd pointed out that this is NAI for me > pivoted off.

this implies clidd is not aligned with gimli(like 50% sure, but gun to head would bet on not teammates rn)

clidd, as someone who plays at tables with myself in every game I play, I know that that is exactly what scum does in relation to my slot very often when they do not know me. Those that know me will more often attempt to pocket me as that's my weakness, or something in between if they're especially smart(pooky from coalition a few months ago comes to mind).

im a bit of a self aware player. I know what's scummy. I know whats towny. I know whats NAI. If you think you have caught me being scummy it better be because my reads are horseshit, not some NAI garbage like a townslip. Can I fake them? Yeah. But the reason I do is because i genuinely make them regularly as town(and sometimes i fake them as town too). Basically, even if I were scum here, I would have posted nearly the same exact thing. But it could have been slightly different depending on partners. If you really care about sorting me i have games where I show that lines like this are NAI, just read my history lmfao. I won't ever push meta that says im outside my scumrange, but I will push meta that what you're pushing is fully NAI.


anyways self meta over -

gimli have you considered its RVS and that people who know eachother and have played with eachother are liklier to have implicit bias towards eachother? I tend to push people early who annoy me or who i dislike. It's easier and more natural for me. I don't tunnel them forever unless I genuinely scumread them. This is probably also true of raya wrt the lighter tone towards me - we've played together and i've played in a game she's modded. We're chill and don't wanna go at eachothers throats like that.

I will say the ashoka vote isn't bad, that entrance is pretty flimsy. I'd rather figure out if this is just playstyle > scum being unsure and playing aloof. but lets play with it VOTE: ashoka

You say Gimli is approaching in terrible faith but then vote the person Gimli is voting. Why is that?
If I remembered correctly, Gimli is the one with the entrance I found show-y and Ashoka is the one that I can't remember anything about but both have similar avatars.

Radja is obvscum

I would like an explanation on this.

It reflects me as malicious, but not explicitly. It is a personal feeling.

I already made some posts of mech stuff (as scum) and even though it should be seen naturally as nai, I noticed that some players seemed to trust me more.

Here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11811488

Not saying it is scummy, but in the context of Volxen, who is a very competent player as scum, it gave me a shiver.

I remember other example too about I correctly scumreading scum with the same feeling, but I need to take a look to see if I can find the game.

I have never seen someone make a mech post likely due to me not playing any complicated games like this one but I don't see how it would make anyone look more towny.

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

This is really a stretch. My scumread here stands.

I don't know Volxen but I'll keep this in mind. That was a long explanation to say that's not who you'd push as scum. Self-meta like that isn't something I read into much. For all I know the reason you're potentially setting up a push on volxen instead of the other options you gave is because the other options include your partners.

Once again, what is this? I hate nearly every post she makes.

People play expecting town to have reads, but a townie shouldn't have strong reads at this point in the game. I will converse as I see fit, and these conversations will look good to look at in hindsight, which is why I converse.

I have given my thoughts on the stuff that stood out the most.

you're lockscum

I don't have a specific opinion on any one of Ashoka's posts but I definitely do not find them scummy.

I don't know Gimli, but I know you and Kkoba, so let's fight. Shall we?

I believe this push on me is fabricated. I believe there are town on my wagon currently, as I specifically do not think Gimli and Dkkoba are both scum voting me.

Clidd can be scum because they hard misrepped me right when momentum on me could have gone either way. They can be impatient town. Either way, this should end up amusing.

This I hate very much for how defensive it is. I am considering moving this down to scum read.

pedit: what

Off this alone, clidd is now my top townread.

oh hi flavor leaf

Who is that?

oh hi flavor leaf

ow about you let other people decide if that is a townslip? also fair to note DK was annoying my slot cause redflavor had like a small hint of being mechanically aware, and now they're looking like they don't know anything at all about the game they're playing. so how does dkkoba know there's a doomcounter and they don't know there's 3 mafia?

DK can correct me if I am wrong, but I interpreted their reasoning behind their early Red scumread as that, if Red rolled scum the doom counter would be fresher in his mind since it’s mentioned in the scum role PM, whereas the DC is not mentioned in the town role PM. I don’t think it’s a great reason to be scumreading your slot, but I believe that is where DK is coming from regarding the scumread of Red’s opener.

I don’t think it’s really far-fetched that town!DK could have been aware of the DC early on but glossed over the fact that there are three scum vs two scum. DK might have simply focused on the DC part of the setup information and overlooked the number of town vs scum if they were reading the setup primarily to learn about the DC mechanic.

The alternative explanation is that DK is scum and faked all of these “mistakes” by pretending to think that there were only two scum, and that scum could also nightkill. I don’t think this is as likely because DK’s progression that started with incorrect analysis (2 scum and nightkills) and ended with them realizing their mistakes seemed genuine to me.

Also, if you look back at the early interactions between Red and DK at the very beginning of the game (5, 6, 7), DK’s posts where they called Red’s opener scummy and said it was a somewhat serious vote came 2 minutes after Red’s “hardclaim DC” opener. Scum!DK couldn’t have possibly pre-planned that opener, unless they are scum with your slot. And if you are town and DK is scum, I don’t know that DK would be able to come up with that fake reasoning to scumread Red over his opener that quickly. Granted, DK only initially said that Red’s opener was scummy without explaining why, but they knew they would have to eventually explain why (and DK did as soon as Red replaced out), so I think that regardless of DK’s alignment they knew what the explanation of the scumread was going to be at the time that they called Red’s opener scummy. I think it’s more likely to be a genuine thought process coming from town!DK rather than a fake thought process coming from scum!DK, especially when the short time lapse is taken into account.

I'm going to have to ask you to explain exactly where you stand because this post is not faring well with my brain after an entire day of work.

volxen im feeling that vibe u fit into a very similar archaetype of player like I do

Volxen is a townread because Dkkoba posted this.

just so you won't think I'm picking on you, I just found all your posting to be scum indicative as I was catching up. I could be wrong of course.

There were a few instances where I had to get my glasses and make sure I was reading correctly but I disagree that all of it was bad.

VOTE: horsewoman come play

I townread this.

Radja is still obvscum

Dropped to scum read until I get an explanation for this.

So you don't have any strong read that you like to talk and that's ok because it's page 6 and I'm the villain for wanting to force something that theoretically you would not be able to deliver bc you're town and town don't have real reads early game. Is that it?

I don't like clidd twisting this to make it sound like he was being targeted. I never interpreted anything Ahsoka said as calling him a villain or even sussing him.
I'm going to move over here VOTE: clidd

pedit: I feel like a villain by the tone you approached the subject, but don't worry.

The tone felt fine to me too. Maybe just because it wasn't directed at me but I don't see how it made him feel like a villain.

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

I usually push players who are vocally weaker compared to me as scum, and Volxen doesn't fit that criteria.

Unless I have a specific context for pushing a player that is vocally difficult to eliminate (as I did on partition with ABR)

After our last game together -- where we were both town and I incorrectly scumread you early on in the game because I was suspicious of your "easy" townread on me -- I think it's plausible that scum!you would be aggressive towards my slot and push me in the beginning. You know I'm skeptical of people who townread me if I can't follow their reasoning. So if anything, I would expect scum!you to err on the side of being too aggressive towards my slot (rather than whiteknight me), at least initially, because you could always pull back later and have your read of me "evolve" into a townread if I started to become more widely townread.

I don't know if scum!you would necessarily deathtunnel me, but I am convinced after our last game together that scum!you would be very cautious with things like the timing of when you might fake a townread on me and your fake reasons for doing so, because you know that I would call you out on it if I felt that your reasons for townreading me were not genuine.

So I don't buy this narrative at all that scum!you would always start off by pushing the less vocal slots.

Then this further supports my point earlier that clidd might be setting up a push.

I hate Raya's posting way too much. Every post looks so scummy. This is my top scum read.

An example of this type of impression is this post (

town!volxen

):

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12060913

I can feel it when Volxen presents a line of reasoning that I look at and think ''gee, this analysis is super towny, I think I would think the same if we switch places''.

Unlike this, for example (

scum!volxen

):

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11618440

Where I can smell superficiality 1 km away.

It seems to me that you were the opposite alignment both times. If that is true, I am hesitant to believe this analysis.

But hopefully, we are in a reality where everything is flowing as I expected and my reads on the slots are going well.

This sounds a little self conscious.

regardless of clidd's alignment, raya is my first locktown

Why?

regardless of clidd's alignment, raya is my first locktown

I cc

Why?

(Mixed up who replaced into which slot)

I feel like this comes from town more than scum. I'm going to lift this to null.

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

Is there a difference?

Hullo! I wish you all a great sunday ahead.

I'm not really following what Raya and clidd are arguing about.

Gimli's "regardless of clidd's alignment, Raya is locktown" seems really weird to me. Why would a clidd flip not make you reconsider your read?

Maybe if you understood their argument you'd understand why I'm so hard in leaning raya town. It does appear to me that raya, volxen and clidd are playing something of a game of their own, with all that combined meta and wits between the 3 of them. Raya caught clidd being too hasty in townreading volxen for something volxen did that isn't supposed to be read as towny, and I think the push in that direction was too nuanced to ever come from scum. Even if clidd is town, that doesn't diminish the towniness in raya's thought process.

Speaking of which, I was a little uneasy with clidd's strong TR of me, because my TR of clidd was weaking at that point and I think he noticed it (given I was open about strong townreading raya), and I felt that maybe clidd decided to try to maintain himself on my good side by pocketing me. I'm not sure my posts were towny enough to be townread that strongly.

I absolutely hated the push on clidd. It looked very slimy. I don't think past experience with a player justifies nasty pushes like that.

Ahsoka seems like a bit of an oddball type of player, and as an oddball myself I sympathize with how hard it is sometimes to make yourself understood. That is to say I might have been too hasty in identifying the oddity of her posting as scummy, and a post such as this appears to have layers of genuine solvey thought processes. It's not a strong read but I've been liking the way she responded to all the pressure.

This switched too fast but I still think it's a towny thought process. I think I'm going to officially move Gimli up to a townread.

did a re-read on the entire thing.

clidd is a stronger townlean now than before the re-read. I think what bothers me the most about him is townreading volxen based off nothing, then trying to act smart about it. I'm also townreading ahsoka now. I think the way she developed her posting in thread was very natural and the way she responded to pressure was good. it's not much but I gotta work with this townpool for now <raya, ahsoka, clidd>.

if I squint real hard, I can see something towny about radja. NM did nothing either way.

that leaves me with volxen, dkkoba and horsewoman. volxen's wall defending dkkoba's tripping over themselves at the beginning of d1 and then dkkoba going 'i feel naked uwu' and then defending volxen when no one was pushing him are all suspicious to me. + no one pushed horsewoman yet, someone who was just here to complain about a game having 6 pages 36 hours into it. if she was town there'd be a wagon already.

Volxen was dropped to a null once my scum read on dkkoba faded out.
I agree with the clidd townread.
Ahsoka is a null for me for now. I've wavered in between townread and null for them so I think the townread is reasonable.
Raya I disagree with entirely. She hasn't posted a single post that I haven't felt was extremely scummy.

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

new user posts in thread for first time. absolutely shocking. i should have just used quantum time travel to post in a thread before having posted in it for the first time.

Like come on man, bring the game into the game, bring your paranoid crap into the admins DMs not here.

This level of anger and frustration doesn't feel fake. I'm going to call it town.

I mean obviously this is forced and ridiculous (doing actual game-related catchup now)

This can be my new top townread.

This, however, is a relatively lazy read from Gimli. Just finished a game with him (my first game onsite so don't expect any other meta from me) where he was scum and he was universally townread and really competent. So he's someone I want to have my eye on throughout this one.

I'm honestly unsure what I think of Gimli currently. His entrance made me think scum but after that mostly everything was null or townread material. I can't remember most of his posts also. I can only think of off the top of my head one readslist that I agreed with except for the Raya read.

Okay this reads list is so bad I'm joining this wagon

VOTE: Radja.

I'm caught up, it was super easy and fast because most of the 12 pages was dkkoba spewing nonsense. Although I don't mind making short multiposts, I think posting as much as koba is is kind of anti-town (at least on mafiascum, where games are soooooooo slow), so I would advise koba to cut that aspect out of his playstyle/this game.

Gimli's playing pretty differently than he did in our game together. And by that I mean worse. I think paradoxically that makes him more likely to be town here? He's producing less reads and less analysis but that might be because he's only producing genuine reads/analysis. Want to see more from him. Koba has made a lot of posts I disagree with and posts like 223 really rub me the wrong way. Radja's reads list is so atrocious I don't think it can come from anyone trying to solve/read the game. I'm kind of biased against koba because he's accused me (without evidence) of being an alt of a guy who was apparently banned for sexual harassment, and that's a really fucking uncool thing to do. So I've got personal animus there. Post 217 from clidd I really dislike, the thought process of 'I agree with him so he's town' is itself, really artificial. I liked ahsoka's posting a reasonable amount.

Now I'm having problems with this readslist.
Clidd is solid town. Occasionally I question it but overall, I'm pretty sure he's just town.
Gimli and Dkkoba are still nulls. I dont think I'm willing to give either a townread thinking back on that.
I think I was too quick to townread this and am dropping it to null now.

Radja/horsewoman/Gimli

Radja/horsewoman/Gimli

the way this is my exact GtH solve rn

This sort of interaction is the sort I'd usually say wouldn't be between two scum but I think it has a high chance of being so here. That's because the setup of 3 scum out of 9 heavily incentivizes the scum to buddy up and stick together, because if all 3 are going the same way they only need 2 town to join them. So basically I'm saying that bussing is incredibly unlikely and scum overtly allying is much more possible.

I don't think they are scum together.

I'm saying that close buddying up in this game is more likely to be scummy in this game than other games. You and N_M have closely buddied up, which in the context of this game, is scummy behaviour. Please don't immaturely attempt to own me.

Nevermind. I think this has to be town. Back to town reads.

Town: Clidd, Horsewoman
Null: Ahsoka, Gimli, Dkkoba, V-something
Scum: Raya, Not_Mafia

I'm halfway caught up with a full set of reads and a decent amount of confidence! This is it for tonight and I'll be back to read the rest tomorrow.

[clidd]

I know it's bad logic to use the argument "her post looks like a post she made in another game where she was scum, so she must be scum here", but I’m starting to feel more and more, by gut, that she’s actually scum. The way she is mirroring my read on her atm to "see" me as town does not strike me as a genuine assessment, as well as the impressions I got from her last post.

[clidd]

Well, that's it.

I'll take a break.

[LlamaFluff]

Missed this. Emphasis mine

The defeatism is fake. Fake things don't always come from scum.
VOTE: Gretchen
Why did you latch on me the moment I called you scum?
I think the reason is because you are either DrippingGoofBall's scum buddy and you are trying to save them.
Or
DrippingGoofBall is town that you think is a mislim better saved for later.

DrippingGoofBall has constantly been scummy this entire game offering close to zero reasons to back up any of their thoughts. They are either scum or town that is playing poorly. Either way scum would want to save them here because they are either a scum buddy or not a threat to scum.

I admit my logic has been all over the place this game. However, you are the one constantly picking on that which I have felt weirdly about for a while now. There is no possible way you think town all have good logic and scum bad logic.

I'm not sure if that is the hammer but quickly before I go to work, last words are that I think Dripping is probably town at this point. This is too suicidal. If that wasn't the hammer, we need to think a bit before doing anything. They are being very suicidal and I just think at this point, it comes from town.

If DrippingGoofball is scum and that was the hammer, I'm happy to call Dannflor scum for a hammer out of nowhere. Solon's vote is horrible but that was minimegabyte and she was a solid townread of mine. I don't like VFB but I could see them being scum and that's it.

Back to the cop on me request please

.

Ame is simultaneously voting for the claimed NC, and asking for them to target her (which in of itself is all types of bad to start). Those things dont really mesh. That Gretch vote is also... bad. Ame calls Gretch scum for buying into DGB "defeatism", then goes on to say its not a scumtell (ie null-town) to sound defeated, then creates a false dillema where no matter what DGB is Gretch has to be scum by ignoring two other options (town is being tricked by scum or town is correctly defending town), then votes a claimed investigative roll (which gets bonus points on its own for its formatting).

Not to mention that Ame is calling DGB town now, and a pretty big part of her Gretch vote seems to center around Gretch calling DGB town.

Vote Ame

One of Ame and Alice need to go today. Im back on Ame side.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB - Can you do me a quick favor and just confirm that you got a "positive" result N1?

I got Negative????????

[LlamaFluff]

@DGB - Can you do me a quick favor and just confirm that you got a "positive" result N1?

I got Negative????????

Okay good. Thats the right result. Figured why not try to trap by fishing for an incorrect result.

[LlamaFluff]

@clidd - Can you point to any game in the past where you have successfully used meta to call someone as scum?
@Ame - Why dont you vote? You have only voted once this whole game.
@Lotus - Can you let me know why Alice over Ame? You are pretty much the only solid town read I have so want that insight.

[clidd]

@Llama

Yes, the most recent experiences I remember are here:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Ahsoka

If I was scum, you would buy it.

Meh, no.

You won as scum against me, Ahsoka, you know that I'm more aware of your scumgame now.

I'm still meh to me, you can fake that as scum too.

The reasons you're pushing aren't really strong to infer scum!clidd when you saw how town!clidd thinks in names on the list.

I need to take a second look on the things you're typing, however.

Selfmeta is the same thing you did on names on the list as scum.

"I wouldn't do x as scum, scum!me would do y, and etc etc"

Clidd, why did you think Ahsoka was strongly town earlier in the game ? (as he thought of you)

you probably mentioned but i forget

it was a passing impression, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't remember exactly, but there was a period when the game was aligned with another one temporarily, so I was playing with FL in two games.

in the other game (names on the list) I started the game suspecting him, but then I started to trust him a lot and that trust was transmitted to this game.

but by the time that game was over and i found out he was scum, i noticed that a lot of the things i was townreading about him could easily be manufactured.

so I started to be more cautious with my read and started to develop until I could be sure of his alignment.

there were some periods when he commented on things about paranoia, of finding me scummy and there was a moment when he thought me and abr ​​were partners in the hood, but I felt that I was so identical to our past game (in which i was town), that many of these impressions did not sound genuine to me. it was almost as if he was approaching the game in another way so that I couldn't detect scum!he. he knew that i would suspect him if he reciprocated the reads imo, which is why makes soo much sense to much his push of ''oh, clidd is setting me up'' in a scum!FL scenario.

(Ahsoka was scum)

And here:

Spoiler:

Alright.

I'm still comfortable with the wagon on Maduisha after another reread.

In the balance of Maduisha against Sam, in my mind, Maduisha is the PoE side that I consider most likely to be scum.

And maybe there was an error on my part in evaluating Maduisha's meta early.

After reviewing the games (scumgames):

- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I noticed that she does have the capacity to be in her scum-range here. There was no break, tbh.

(Maduisha was scum)

[clidd]

It's important to emphasize that I don't promise accuracy, considering that I have also had games in which my meta reads were not as conclusive as I thought and I ended up getting bad/wrong reads.

[LlamaFluff]

@clidd - Ever done it as scum to help push a case on town/partner?

[clidd]

Example of bad meta read:

Spoiler:

Hum, Gamma, I would like your opinion about this game:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

You were replaced at the end of D3, but your posting frequency (85) is very similar to the number of posts here (92). The progression is basically the same: slow, with few reads and apathetic involvement with the game. Your successor was lynched on the D4, revealed as

Mafia Tracker

. The scum behavior you showed in that game is perfectly aligned with what you have shown so far here, should I consider it a coincidence ?

(Gamma was town).

[clidd]

@clidd - Ever done it as scum to help push a case on town/partner?

Not that I remember, but I've probably done something similar with meta to advance a scum agenda. My scum roll is rare.

But nothing close to the deep meta dives as town.

[clidd]

Here, scum!me using meta:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11887436