Newbie 1425 Part Deux -- Game Over

[singersigner]

Page 9/10:

You are the one claiming you don't believe this is her town meta, so nope.

Unfortunately if you're trying to prove that you have substantial evidence in favor of your opinion, you're the one that needs to provide it. He's admitted to not having his own experience, so if you were trying to argue using

your

experience, you need to provide proof of it, otherwise it's just empty words. RayFrost is right with regards to "burden of proof."

I dont repeat things that is already being talked about...Anywayz, since you asked...
its the way you Conveniently read my and Rach as scum together becuz i defended her and vice versa... And not to forget your intial suspicion over Ray is changed so quickly and you have started agreeing to everything what he said. Isn't tht enough?

Something that might help with articulating your reads is explaining what exactly you find scummy about these particular things. I tend to ask a lot of questions when I'm parsing things through because it helps me find out if I'm jumping to conclusions, or if my suspicions are correct. You seem to already have a conclusion here, but you don't really share what it is.

BTW Ray I was at L-1. I could have self hammered, as scum that would have been even good play to prevent peeps from figuring out my scum budz. Instead I said it would be better to lynch me than to have a NL on D 1.

Most of the players screaming at you that I am town, have played many games with me. They know my lack of activity is not based on alignment, but what is going on in RL. I posted the link for 1444 for a good reason. Not only is it scum me, it is scum Arc. We most definitely did not defend each other. I remember looking at a game of Arc's where dude claimed VT on D 1 with no real wagon on him and she went totally ballistic on him. And she is doing that here to a lesser amount, but then none of us have done something like that.

1. If you're town, bringing things like this up doesn't help your case. In fact, it only really makes me feel like you're pointing out something that is a "standard" for scum to do, which means you're aware of it, which means you can change it. Which brings me to my second point:
2. If things going on in real life are preventing you from playing so much, maybe you should take a look at that. I, myself, have been struggling with my ability to take on too much, and can go through waves of activity, but those kinds of things/situations are reality checks. It's actually really sad that you've developed a meta of lurking as town.

Cases can be made my scum too. Why did you trust it if you previously thought he's town?
And most importantly why the hell did you back off Rach so easily since you were so adamant previously?
You don't even know if I am town so how the hell do you sheep me 2 days before the deadline?

Can anyone point out the slip?

Guyett is town too. Like Rach, he is a player that naturally gives scumvibes when he's town. We're not letting scum lynch him.

Just leaving this 180 here...

Not only is it a flip in stance on you, it's the second time he's defending scummy behavior with "lynchfodder" or "naturally scummy". Looks an awful lot like trying to gain towncred.

[Wisdom]

huh, singer is starting to lose ground in my book. She apparently thinks I'm someone she can push.

[Wisdom]

Unfortunately if you're trying to prove that you have substantial evidence in favor of your opinion, you're the one that needs to provide it. He's admitted to not having his own experience, so if you were trying to argue using

your

experience, you need to provide proof of it, otherwise it's just empty words. RayFrost is right with regards to "burden of proof."

Nope. If he wants to discredit what I think is right so others don't believe me he will need to give them proof. I am simply using my experience and I consider what I say right, whoever doesn't see it's right can go check it on their own. It's everyone's job as a player to meta others if they want to disagree with meta reads.

Cases can be made my scum too. Why did you trust it if you previously thought he's town?
And most importantly why the hell did you back off Rach so easily since you were so adamant previously?
You don't even know if I am town so how the hell do you sheep me 2 days before the deadline?

Can anyone point out the slip?[/quote]
"Wisdom accuses Guyett that he is scum, yet he tells him "you don't even know if I am town" so that means he doesn't actually think he is scum"
Think again, singer. I was trying to engage Guyett and make him convince me he is town. I was telling him that if he is town, what he's doing doesn't make sense since he shouldn't know if I am town and therefore I want him to explain it so I understand why that can come from a town mindset.

Not only is it a flip in stance on you, it's the second time he's defending scummy behavior with "lynchfodder" or "naturally scummy". Looks an awful lot like trying to gain towncred.

Prepare for many more flips like that - as for the lynchfodder defenses they were in the same post so I don't get how you call that "second time". Looks like an awful lot like trying to misrep me.

[singersigner]

I'm very much a momentum based player. That's why starting games is hard for me, and it also makes it very difficult for me to keep a consistent level of activity if my momentum gets shattered (such as having the entire town basically say "yeah what you're saying is 100% true but you're wrong" and brick wall me). I'm tired. I need this game day to end to give me the time to read through and piece my head together, I can't form something coherent out of a series of 3 am posts.

Heh, that's why large games are so hard for me. Something I'm working on.

I agree with RayFrost. Meta is being used way too much for a Newbie game with slightly less than experienced players. Things can be interpreted differently, and I wouldn't consider anything more than 6 months ago valid since people change all the time. You also have a very different point of view when you're experiencing something "in real time" than when you're remembering how you felt about what you experience at that point in time.

I fail to see how the fact this is a newbie game is any relevant when there are no newbie players left in it.
The rest of this statement misses the point - you compare the real time experience with someone in a game to the real time experience you've had with the person in other games. It's not like you disregard the current real time experience to favor something else.

It's relevant because there are still newer players, along with players who haven't played in a while, or like me, who hasn't played a Newbie Game in particular in a looong time.
And you misunderstand what I'm saying about meta and real time experience. I'm saying that if you have a certain meta of someone from x, y, z games, and someone else has experience with the same person in only game-a, then you guys will have a different view of them. Alternatively, you can relate the way someone's acting in a game to a game you previously played with them a year ago, but mistakingly only attribute certain aspects of their previous play to their current play. Think of it almost like selective memory.

I'll have to go back and look at the post about Cats because now that you bring it up, it was a very large paragraph and I'm not confident that I didn't just glaze over it.

Preview Edit:
Really? Empty threats? You're getting awfully aggressive for someone who claims to be innocent. I was offering you a chance to explain yourself before jumping to conclusions and you lash out because...I'm not even sure, really, lol. As much as I can empathize with your "from a townset" explanation, the way you said it did not set up the engagement that way. It seemed too definitive, as opposed to offering up a possibility.

Also, you defended both RachMarie and Guyett with the "naturally scummy" defense. Rach=1, Guyett=1; 1+1=2. Please don't throw around buzzwords like "misrep" unless you're going to think it through.

Also, also, for now I can only allow RayFrost to assume this meta of RachMarie you speak of doesn't exist until you, who seem to have it so ready in your defense arsenal, can provide it. Do you see how that works?

[Wisdom]

You're getting awfully aggressive for someone who claims to be innocent.

What do you mean "getting"? When was I not aggressive in this game?

Also, you defended both RachMarie and Guyett with the "naturally scummy" defense. Rach=1, Guyett=1; 1+1=2. Please don't throw around buzzwords like "misrep" unless you're going to think it through.

You said that "it was the second time" I did it while both defenses were in my first post. The way you worded it was meant to imply that I did something bad and later I did it again. That's why it's a misrep.
Btw I also did it for Arc, so that's three

Also, also, for now I can only allow RayFrost to assume this meta of RachMarie you speak of doesn't exist until you, who seem to have it so ready in your defense arsenal, can provide it. Do you see how that works?

You apparently have not read the game. I provided it already. Though I still maintain that I was not supposed to.

[singersigner]

Ah, ok, you're right about me misreading your point about Cats.

Also, you're right about me not reading that particular post. It was a page of links so I glossed over why they were relevant, or that it was even you providing them. -_-

Why is RayFrost scum again?

Also, I realize that a lot of the posts I found relevant to comment on were from only two people, so that's kind of not good. If other people could be around during deadline time, that would be

great

.

[singersigner]

I'll be back in a bit to read back on other players earlier in the game.

[RachMarie]

Getting ready to go out to dinner with NS and his son. Will be back later around 8 PM...

[Wisdom]

Why is RayFrost scum again?

Because his posting feels like he has been trying to manipulate people and look town.
Because his Guyett jump despite earlier claims that he absolutely did not want him lynched is terrible.
Because he admits even now that Guyett is a townread yet he wants to lynch him over pushing actual scumreads. He even admits he doesn't have actual scumreads.
Because I didn't like his Rach push at all. Rach always gets pushed by scum. By town too, granted, but there will usually be some scum to orchestrate it.

[singersigner]

vote: innocentvillager

[singersigner]

Ok, so I don't normally try flash wagons this close to deadline, but I did a quick ISO of IV and this is what I got:
1. rvs vote
2. mod-is-scum post
3. promise for content
4. fluff content
5. fluff repeating facts
6. fluff waffling over RachMarie
7. fluff arguing about meta
8. promise for content
9. no-opinion-vote post
10. promise for content

Of all ten posts, there's two random joke posts, two "logistics" posts while simultaneously fence-sitting, one serious vote post with no prior opinion or current explanation on the guy he's voting for, one with a remote possibility of adding content, and three promises for more.

This is not someone ready to play the game, yet he volunteered to replace into it?

[Guyett]

I'm much more comfortable here with that lynch

[Guyett]

VOTE: iv

[RayFrost]

Unvote, Vote: innocent villager

I didn't think this would happen, but I vastly prefer this to guyett / cats. Popping in cuz my client rescheduled for later in the day.

[RayFrost]

Why is RayFrost scum again?

Because his posting feels like he has been trying to manipulate people and look town.
Because his Guyett jump despite earlier claims that he absolutely did not want him lynched is terrible.
Because he admits even now that Guyett is a townread yet he wants to lynch him over pushing actual scumreads. He even admits he doesn't have actual scumreads.
Because I didn't like his Rach push at all. Rach always gets pushed by scum. By town too, granted, but there will usually be some scum to orchestrate it.

Please point out my manipulations.

I explicitly stated that I have a scumread on innocent villager. Just that I don't have a game-winning case for it. Like singer said, he doesn't have much of anything to go off of.

[Evil Regals]

NL should not be an option period. I would rather see Guyett who is a scum read to me lynched, but it would be better that I be mislynched than a NL

Ugh I honestly think Rach might be town. Sure you can argue it's wifom to try and sweettalk us out of this but she should know we're experienced enough to not fall for that. Looks like a townie sticking to principle...

I'd be fine with Guyett, honestly

VOTE: Guyett

This feels so oppurnistic.

wooo go go gadget mislynch

one day left and I'm just a VT. you may hammer away

Hello there AtE!

If guyett is lynched my divine fury will rain down on

all of you

.

I will dissect what's wrong with innocent's logic and break down how horribly unfulfilling arcangel's post is in the next post.

Wonderful, please do chainsaw defend moar.

[Evil Regals]

Cats to go then.... I would love to see this persons reaction

VOTE: Cats

VOTE: Cats

Sheeping Wisdom and I want to see what happens with this wagon

Both of these votes I hate.

[RayFrost]

Can you put all of your shit into just a couple posts instead of doing a bunch of one liners

[Evil Regals]

ObsessedWithCats - Null with a slight town lean.

The last time you talked about Cats was to call him town.
Yet you vote him to see "what will happen" so close to the deadline and then post to tell us that we a day and a half left.
Nope.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guyett

Yep, I'm

liking

you for town.

ObsessedWithCats - Null with a slight town lean.

The last time you talked about Cats was to call him town.
Yet you vote him to see "what will happen" so close to the deadline and then post to tell us that we a day and a half left.
Nope.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guyett

Nothing happened since that vote and I'm posting to tell people that we need to make the decision.

I'm at L-1 again and I've already claimed. My lynch won't be a big loss and we're close to the deadline.
I will not self hammer unless needed to (which I doubt anyway) as it takes up space on my wagon and lowers the amount of people to be looked at

someone hammer before I do

More AtE. Then you threaten us with a hammer which is anti-town behavior. Maybe not scummy behavior, but very anti-town.

[Evil Regals]

I'm much more comfortable here with that lynch

Well considering it's your only chance for a counterwagon to not get lynched yourself. I could see you easily taking this to try to escape your lynch. So another opportunistic votes which is what you been doing along with being survivalistic.

VOTE: iv

@Ray: I could if I use multiple tabs, but blech. In the future I'll attempt to throw it into one post as long as I don't get complaints of "She's walling!"

[Guyett]

A lot of people need to read older course

[RayFrost]

Older course?

Regals: Have you seen my posts? I don't think people will complain.

[Wisdom]

Not agreeing with iv lynch. singer's case is bad, none of these things are scummy. But wow at all the sleeping.

[Wisdom]

sheeping*

[RayFrost]

You were blindly sheeped by arc (even more so than) and guyett, but you only mentioned guyett when poking at people. Meaning you accept sheeping. Just only if it's sheeping you.

The hypocrisy.