Death Curse

[UNOwen]

Based off of meta, I’d say DGB is probably my strongest sr. Is it possible you have the correct solve here?

Anything is possible if it involves me being correct.

In seriousness, I don't completely discount the possibility. I lean towards agreeing with Fidget that DGB doesn't come out with a Titus bus if the situation is looking so dire though, but maybe she felt that a big play was needed. Pessimism also pushes me towards thinking I'm looking at the game wrong somewhere.

[UNOwen]

UNO

You have earned yourself another question mark in my next read list for this.

Missed Titus ama, but I had a question in 6527. Not that I think the answer is going to make a difference.

Titus/DGB should be the next two eliminations no matter the order. MUSH is right to aim for the consensus targets rather than playing the hero and taking a risk, but I do agree with her Adorable analysis.

Re: PoE, I'm happy to roll with it for the next phase. No intention of voting anyone in her townblock until at least all three of Adorable/DGB/Titus are out, since there is a chance that is actually the solve. If not, then where I look next will depend on the flips so I can't commit to an order beyond that.

[UNOwen]

@Uno

If I get the scroll I am passing it straight to Titus, no discussion and no LARPing.

Unfortunately PoE demands that one of you die now, so that's not going to happen.

[UNOwen]

didn't know you were an OMGUSer O_o
um because you are the least towny in the townblock. is that not obvious?

" " is the important part of that quote. You have not really earned another question mark for that.

[UNOwen]

Goodbye DGB - it's a shame you replaced the worst slot in the game and had to die for it.

Probably not trolling here, so that's an even greater shame. Means there is definitely scum that's reasonably well hidden still.

[UNOwen]

It doesn't matter anymore, but I don't think MUSH's call was as terrible as is being made out. Only in retrospect with DGB town does it mean we have probably given scum a shot we didn't need to. If both were scum that would have happened regardless.

[UNOwen]

mush took a stupid gamble because she was overconfident. she assumed that we all thought one thing when we thought another. rather than trusting her teammates she went off and made a solo play that hurt town. there was no reason to hurt town or take a chance of hurting town.

That is the true curse of the scroll.
I think with more discussion we would have collectively moved to a Titus first position probably, but it's not like the DGB kill wasn't approved generally.

[UNOwen]

I literally said that before she did it though and asked her to talk it out with me

Yeah I did see that, and do think it was an error not to hear out what you had to say. But out of the four this is the scroll pass that considered town the most, so I'm not too upset.

[UNOwen]

It was a reasonable call that appears to have gone wrong. Everyone else to receive the scroll has gone for their personal suspicion and missed, DGB scum was not a controversial opinion.

[UNOwen]

VOTE: Titus
Fantastic
Respect to MUSH for standing by her choice even when it looked like it was wrong

[UNOwen]

I think it is actually just Adorable/Titus.

[UNOwen]

MUSH's blitz list is fantastic, only requires slight amendment.

shellyc
Lapsa
Hopkirk
Pooky
Zdenek

If we are comparing scores then by ranking I think this is in contention.

[UNOwen]

Decided to update my read list, don't know why just had a feeling I should.

Town:
Bell
Taylor
MURDERCAT
Gloria ??
Fidget ????
Noraa ?????????????????!??!?!???!???????????
Pooky ????
Flea ??????

Scum:
DGB
Adorable
Titus

[UNOwen]

Well her posts seem town, but assigning me as court jester is a pretty suspicious thing to do....

[UNOwen]

True true, MUSH would not approve of the lack of confidence

[UNOwen]

After DGB I'm not going to take Adorable's word that she was town until I've seen a flip.

It doesn't matter either way, victory approaches sooner or later.

[UNOwen]

take my word that i was scum though please

ok I'm convinced

[UNOwen]

I have faith that the game is over.

[UNOwen]

VOTE: Hectic
Good wagon.

[UNOwen]

Game is not over? Very sad.
VOTE: Flea
Hammer is yours Noraa.

[UNOwen]

Pooky. Fidget.

If that still doesn't work, I am confident we can solve the final 5.

[UNOwen]

Ideally Flea was just playing to maximise the trolling they could inflict on us.
I think we all fear that there is a scum that is going to require more effort to catch though.

[UNOwen]

They didn’t act like doomed scum like DGB did, nor did they scum panic like Titus. They’re entire attitude screams town. I will be shocked if they flip scum here.

I kind of agree, but then they would have known they had no chance at all at this point so their attitude might not be the same.
I know if I was scum in this situation I would want to make town sweat.

[UNOwen]

My reads are the same as before. High confidence in Bell and MURDERCAT being town. Think that Gloria is town too. Noraa is probably town but I have a long standing paranoia of her that I don't want to deal with unless I make it to final 5 and have to. I trust Pooky the least.

[UNOwen]

this is worrisome. if u and I end up in limlo and I die bc of this unexplained "paranoia", I'm actually going to throw a fit.

I think that Uno>Fidget in scumminess. This is a p clear attempt to ... idk "justify" future SRs on me which is actually shockingly scary considering I am legit the most IC level clear there is in this game.

Ok, I need to stop reading into stuff so much. It's leading me all over the place. At this rate, imma literally tear the whole Poe apart.

I don't think my paranoia is going to convince anyone to kill you except possibly me while it remains unexplained. If we are both in limlo then I will re-evaluate all players, I'm not going to be lazy with it. But you are not IC level clear.

[UNOwen]

pedit: Doesn't matter if your reads have changed or not, the town at this point is looking at consuming itself. You need to be questioning your reads and making absolutely certain you're completely confident in them.

I think you should curse Pooky or Fidget. If you find someone more suspicious and want to curse them, say it and I'll try to understand your argument and talk you out of it if I disagree.

[UNOwen]

Pooky is town. Why isn’t anyone listening to me or Noraa? Why don’t we let Flea decide who they want to curse?

It is up to Flea, I'm just giving my recommendations.

[UNOwen]

I'm sure you weren't planning to but Fidget if you do get hold of the scroll next then I hope you will not immediately curse me, even if your mind is already set by that point.

[UNOwen]

The only players to have actually done that have been scum, you do realize that right?

Eh, Toog went for some sort of gameshow countdown, Vax pulled a bait and switch on Hopkirk and LLD hit Theta then bounced. Mainly I'm concerned about being sucker punched by the scroll and Hectic sending me to the dead thread without the chance to say a word.

I won't. I feel bad I accidentally hammered Flea.

Ta.

[UNOwen]

The point at this stage is town needs to cannibalise itself. There's a deepwolf.

This is why I'm telling people to criticise their reads and do so publicly so holes can be found, questions raised and discussion is stirred. Hopefully forcing scum to slip up.

We don't know that. You could be scum wanting to amuse yourself by forcing us to question everything we think for the next few days. If you are not scum, then Pooky is my call because he has spent the majority of the game tunneling town!Taylor, he tried to defend shelly based on vote count analysis and maybe Fred was telling the truth that I was wrong to trust him. If not him then Fidget is my next weakest read, but I don't think she is scum.

[UNOwen]

I'd hope they would, but it's not impossible that's what is happening.

[UNOwen]

Good luck Bell.

After finishing that post, I feel like I saw someone mention Pooky might have tried to block the Fred elim at first using VCA or something. I can't find it but sure. I'll put UNOwen/Pooky as my guess.

If this is referring to my post, then I said it was shelly that Pooky defended not Fred. It wasn't just VCA, there was also an argument about shelly's interaction with the Fred wagon. Don't think you should be taking my word for it though considering I am your current first choice.

[UNOwen]

Flea this will probably only work the way you want it to if you are leading the discussion. Everyone (or if not mostly everyone) has given you their PoE, it's up to you to challenge any assumptions you disagree with.

[UNOwen]

@Owno, would you be okay with Flea giving you the scroll?

I would think it a better idea to pass the scroll to someone who might be scum.

[UNOwen]

But wouldn’t it be fun for you to play MUSH? I mean, you’re not getting to the finals anyway right? So, why wouldn’t you want a chance at taking scum out?

Victory is better than personal glory.

[UNOwen]

If you’re not in the finals, you’re definitely going to get it anyway. so why wouldn’t you want it in scroll position #2?

?
If I'm getting the scroll this phase then obv it would be better if I'm second than third. I don't think I should be getting the scroll before Pooky or Fidget though, and the game should end once that has happened.

[UNOwen]

Woah woah woah. u dont get to lim pooky if ur town.

Give me the scroll and we'll see what I get to do.

[UNOwen]

So Owno, would you then be okay if Flea gave you the scroll, so you could take out one of them? Wouldn’t you love the prospect of possibly being town hero?

No, I have no desire to be a hero. If I have to I will try to make the right choice, but it is better that we get both this phase.

[UNOwen]

If there's a final five situation of me/Gloria/Noraa/MURDERCAT/Bell then I'm going to be the first one out of the door, idk why anyone would doubt that.

[UNOwen]

MC do you think I'm scum?

[UNOwen]

Not really

Doesn't seem like a good idea to curse me then.

[UNOwen]

I'm TRing most everyone left

Well let me put it another way, do you think I am more likely scum than Pooky or Fidget?

[UNOwen]

Then isn't Flea > Pooky > Fidget the best order?
Since we have established that no-one will hesitate to kill me next if somehow it goes beyond that.

[UNOwen]

But not as much faith in me?
Tbf I don't have faith in me to make the correct choice between Pooky/Fidget if it came to it, that's why I prefer my plan.

[UNOwen]

Yeah I know, I mean if I get the scroll next then I would have to choose between Pooky/Fidget.

[UNOwen]

Oh you would choose Pooky

Probably but I'd still have to think about it, Pooky is not shelly. Better they both die and the responsibility is not mine.

[UNOwen]

Though I view any effort to avoid being scrolled even by a single pass to be a scum claim so I am suddenly much more nervous about you

Yeah I know, but I want the game to be won as soon and as cleanly as possible. A guaranteed town death when there are two suspects that are reasonably plausible still does not improve the chances of this so I have to argue against, even if doing this possibly makes my death more likely.

[UNOwen]

Lol
Well Gloria, it ain't me.

I know you will probably shoot me anyway but if you do before I have a chance to tell you why it ain't me then I will be disappointed. So please don't do that.

[UNOwen]

I don't have the time right now, that's why I'm asking you to wait in case Hectic shows up in the next couple of hours.
I will get back to you later today.

[UNOwen]

Thanks for waiting Gloria (and I'm glad I asked since Hectic showed up straight away this time).

Clearly I'm biased but IMO UNO!town over Pooky/Fidget is not that difficult a call and I'll explain why in my next post. First though:

Uno I think what you need to explain is why you so desperately want to make it to tomorrow when we would just vote you immediately anyway?

The answer to this, and all of Gloria's points about my play this phase is that I am the only player left who would be willing to shoot Noraa before Bell/MURDERCAT/Gloria. I'd stake the game on the latter three being town, but I still think there's a small but real chance of Noraa scum that no one else is worried about so I want to be around in a potential final phase in case I need to make that argument. Obv this plan is in tatters now because one of my top towns has got the scroll but that was the thinking.

Yes I wanted to shut down Flea's idea of tearing down the town block. Because that only muddies the waters, which is not necessary when we have two players that are not widely trusted and probably contain scum. Follow my plan and worst case scenario we reached endgame with only the four consensus town reads left (because as I keep saying, I would clearly be first to get the scroll if I made it to final five). If and only if that happens is it time to question everything.

[UNOwen]

I know self-meta is sketchy, but the difference is so stark I hope you will understand why I am raising it.

Consider UNOwen: I play one game at a time. Only one non-newbie game completed since I created this account. No play for years before that, though I guess you only have my word. Only one scum game, in which I did alright but was worried about getting executed from literally my first post and pretty pessimistic about my own position throughout.

Consider shelly: This is only the second game I've played against her but I'm sure you have picked up as much as I have that she plays a lot and is a confident and aggresive scum player.

Does it seem plausible that between the two of us we cook up a bussing strategy that would rely on me being the one to carry the team to victory?
Remember that shelly was the one who was arguing in bad faith, never me so I was always going to win provided people actually read our respective arguments.

Note that Titus also jumped on the wrong side of this bus with her own bad faith attack on me.
Note that when MUSH asked for my top scum read instead of going for Titus my answer was that I'd prefer DGB.

Note that I wanted to policy execute Lapsa, and pressed for shelly to be scrolled at every stage beyond the first.

Note that at the start of phase 2, I wanted shelly given the scroll but was also fine with cursing Fred - never once argued for looking elsewhere or did anything that could be even remotely interpreted as helpful to him.

Consider all of this, and realise that in order for me to be scum I have to have decided to ruthlessly bus all of my team mates and to try and go for a solo win against a solid town block and a raft of town read players where I have near the lowest presence in thread and was the least trusted player on day 1 (according to Toog's voting system).

Then look through the mafia pt from my newbie game (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=83350 - it's only five pages) and consider if the player you see there, really has the confidence, skill or arrogance to attempt that.

If you believe the answer is yes, then a) idk whether to be flattered or insulted and b) you're completely wrong.

[UNOwen]

The secret thing we aren't talking about is that the 4th player in the final 4 (the one with the scroll) does actually need to decide who to shoot in the town block. I was hoping it would be a choice between {Gloria, Bell, Noraa} but now it will be something else.

Exactly. If not Pooky/Fidget and it goes all the way to the end then current thread opinion suggests Noraa is the one who stays standing, but I'd be much more comfortable if I expected a choice between you/Bell/Noraa to end with you and Bell as the final two.

[UNOwen]

Well I don't mind that either of course, I mean it is strictly better for me mathematically.

But I think that if there is scum in Noraa/Bell I always get shot 3rd instead.

I could take the final scroll instead of Pooky if you trust that I will at least explore all of the possibilities when the time comes.

That's what I think too.
Final Five MURDERCAT/Bell/Noraa/Pooky/Fidget
Pooky and Fidget have to die to rule out the likeliest possibilities.
Then you probably die. But I think the correct call if it reaches that point is Noraa cursed.

I mean, Gloria is out, probably me next so my plan has failed and it doesn't really matter. All I can hope is that scum is in Pooky/Fidget and my paranoia was wrong.

[UNOwen]

Still not cursed, still ain't me.

Re: Noraa paranoia, if it helps the last game I played Noraa-shelly almost won because they went for a hard distancing strategy and shelly was trusted on that basis. The way she ran around day one declaring Noraa was confirmed scum but never really tried to convince anyone of it strongly reminded me of that.

Is it unlikely? Sure. Is it as unlikely as MC!scum, Bell!scum or Gloria!scum? Not IMO.

It's tough, because I do think it is probably just Pooky/Fidget and this is all for nothing. But while I can see either of them as scum, I don't strongly believe either is and from my perspective both were doomed anyway so it made sense for me to play to cover the one remaining risk that I could imagine.

Anyway, I've explained my motivation. If you think it is too mad to be real then fair enough. I've pointed out that if scum I must've been playing as though I was third party, with the total lack of mercy I have shown the scum so far. I've also pointed out that this is especially unlikely from me considering how I played my one actual scum game. There's nothing else to say, except maybe I'd suggest rereading the shelly interaction and asking if it really looks like I had an agenda.

[UNOwen]

Owno, I can’t be scum here anymore than Flea can be or the game would already be over.. Last scum never gets the scroll, they just die.

Yes I know, I was talking from my perspective at the start of this day.

[UNOwen]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34498

Owno scumgame. Owno, I haven’t looked up any of your towngames but you don’t sound at all different here.

Yes I agree, there is no difference in how I post between that game and my subsequent ones. The point wasn't about posting style, but how I would interact with my potential teammates. I suggested reading the pt for that game, and seeing if you think that I'm the type of player who would try to win by throwing all of my partners under the bus.

[UNOwen]

Was shelly really not trying to convince anyone on Noraa this game? Hm. Fred certainly was, so there's that. I believe shelly mostly kept her vote away from Noraa, but she took pot shots at her constantly (like this one)

also I would be happy with a Noraa lethal that slot still floundering

It's not terribly unlike how I'd expect shelly to approach town Noraa. She probably expected Noraa to die down the line, but didn't want to be seen as the *main* driver for it. Which she wouldn't have been, I don't think.

You've actually highlighted one of the posts that sparked my worry, because if you look at it in context shelly only posted that after I posted this:

We all see shelly making no attempt to convince Vax to pass the scroll to "practically confirmed scum" (or whatever hyperbole she was using) Noraa right?

Also my memory may be faulty, but I'm pretty sure shelly still had Noraa as a scum read by the end of day 1 in that game. Day 2 Noraa had been exposed by night actions so isn't relevant.

[UNOwen]

Anyway @Owno, if you don’t have a read on either Fidget or Pooky, this won’t help me with my decision, because wi hard tr everyone else in the game and if I don’t scroll you, then it’s either Fidget or Pooky. Noraa is and has been mu most confident tr for a very long time now, so it’s not her, for multiple reasons. Plus town!Tayl0r who considers herself to be the Noraa whisperer is confident she’s town.

My read on Pooky is that tonally he is town, but of the remaining players his play makes most sense for him to be scum. He tunneled Taylor for reasons I never understood, and defended shelly based on some pretty flimsy reasoning. He was on board with Fred/Titus/DGB executions but lead the charge on none of them. He also still has a chance at victory with the current dynamics of the thread, and he may be arguing for my survival because he wants to take a paranoid scroll holder into endgame.

Fidget could be scum, but I agree with her argument that if she is then she has made no attempt to win so I expect she isn't.

[UNOwen]

The obvious problem here is whomever the last scum is, did exactly that, so everyone left in the game could make that exact same argument.

Is that true of Pooky? As I said, he tried to defuse me v shelly as TvT.

Also the specific argument is that it's really unlikely that in one scum game I check if it's ok to throw even one softball question at my partner and then in my very next I decide that every one of my teammates are to go overboard without mercy.

[UNOwen]

Town!Tayl0r had an extremely confident tr on her plus why does scum!Fred scroll LLD who had Noraa as her top sr? No, I don’t believe Noraa is ever scum here and I’m definitely not giving her the scroll.

I'm not asking you to. Noraa should never be given the scroll before Pooky or Fidget. I'm just explaining why I was worried that if we had a deep wolf it was most likely her.

[UNOwen]

That is a fair point but he knows if game doesn’t end today, he’s getting the scroll either first or second tomorrow, so he seems pretty chill about that if he’s scum here. Why is Pooky not leading any scum wagons AI for him?

That's true for all of me/Fidget/Pooky, and scum haven't conceded so if there's scum among us they obviously think things will change.

I don't know Pooky's meta to know if leading wagons on scum is AI for him or not, I just generally think that the player who has pushed for scum executions is less likely to be scum than the player who hasn't doing that.

[UNOwen]

But when were you an active agent towards anyone other than Shelley? Bell took an active role in leading scum wagons but sorry if I’m wrong but Shelley is literally the only flipped scum I recall you pushing.

I mean, DGB + Titus just collapsed quickly so no-one really lead there. But if you think back, DGB was bussing Titus, Titus had attacked me, so if we were all scum it would make sense for me to side with DGB over Titus but instead I said DGB was my first choice for scum when MUSH asked me. I think it's fair to say I've been pushing for shelly's death for a long time. I think it's also fair to say I started day 2 saying I'm always happy to kill one scum player, but I'd also be happy to kill a second. I think it's fair to note that when Toog was the compromise wagon on day 1, I suggested a policy execution on Lapsa instead. Pooky has never pushed hard for a scum player to be killed, and he has spent the majority of this game trying to get a now confirmed town player killed.

[UNOwen]

Well you’ve just demonstrated why Bell is obvtown but he’s not in my PoE so that again isn’t helping me.

I feel fairly comfortable saying that if you review my ISO v Pooky's, you will find that I have been trying to get scum eliminated far more than he has.

[UNOwen]

It would really help me to see quotes of where you did this?

What do you want, all the times I said to kill shelly, the way I was on board with voting Fred without any resistance, the bit were I suggested policy'ing Lapsa, where I said I thought DGB was scum, all of it?

[UNOwen]

My problem, UNO, is your pride in good coming off your RVS vote on Noraa, and even at this stage of the game, you're not happy to townlock Noraa.

Your resistance to dismantling the townblock to look at it closer is questionable, despite it being quite clear at this stage and forseen by Mush that it would need to be done.

Who is your Final 4, why? If you're scum, who would you shoot, why?

My reads have been consistent the entire way through. Gloria/Bell/MURDERCAT/Noraa were my top town with Noraa as the one I was shaky on. With Gloria removed then in a choice between Pooky/Fidget I trust Fidget more.

Don't understand the second question.

[UNOwen]

Whatever you like because without quotes, there’s no evidence.

The thing is Owno, two of you, Pooky and Fidget are getting the scroll tomorrow first and second. You’re not making it past then and you have shown no interest in receiving the scroll.

Because there’s only one scum left, there’s zero danger of scum being able to scroll anyone, so if I hypothetically shoot either Pooky or Fidget instead of you, you aren’t making past second scroll tomorrow anyway.

If you're worried I'd lie about what I've been up to when the evidence is in my ISO, then you're probably going to be worried that I'd selectively quote too. My ISO is pretty short and it might be better for you to just skim through yourself. Since you have asked though:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Lapsa
Will switch to Toogeloo if this doesn't look like a viable wagon when I log in tomorrow morning. But if we are deadline eliminating, I'd prefer to deal with the borderline trolling player who may well be scum than the probtown demob-happy self-voting panda (who I pretty much entirely sympathise with).

Where I want to curse Lapsa over Toog.

Provisionally OK with cursing Fred.
Always OK with cursing shelly.

Yo Flea, updated reads on (Noraa, shellyc, Theta, Fred, UNOwen) with justifications?

The start of day two, where the players I was looking at cursing were both scum.

My shot would be DGB atm, but her read list has thrown me off a bit because I also feel that Titus has fair chance of flipping scum. Her contributions

are

a vast improvement on Lapsa, and the reason I was looking at her is purely based on a couple of shelly interactions, which feels ugly in a game this long but I suppose can't be helped when her predecessor barely existed.

a)

DGB probtown imo, tone doesnt sound forced and scum!DGB would probably gain info of scrolling in the scum PT and would sound less clueless than atm

This was a really lame reason to town read someone. DGB is experienced, I'm sure she is capable of pretending to be clueless when replacing in. Obv shelly was faking anyway, but what matters is that it seems really weird for scum to invent a reason to lift an easily executable slot out of PoE. There are a lot of town reads, and a fairly solid town core - easy picks such as Lapsa/DGB should be the scum life blood. It reminds me of my last game with shelly, where she came up with one reason to town read her low key teammate, and then used that as an excuse not to look at him right up until endgame.

b)

Why are so few players talking about how scummy Bell is?

i can get behind a bell!scum case, elaborate on this?

This was also pretty awkward. From what I remember (and it may be that when I look back I'll find I'm misremembering) shelly had abandoned the Bell scum tunnel by this point for quite a while, so why is she breaking character to entertain a newcomers read? For me it looked like she wanted some in thread interaction with her new partner but wanted it to be entirely neutral, hence her not challenging DGB on Bell!scum.

Town:
Bell
Taylor
MURDERCAT
Gloria ??
Fidget ????
Noraa ????
Pooky ????
Flea ??????

Scum:
DGB
Adorable
Titus

Preference is DGB. The solve is probably not those three, so I'd guess there is scum in my town group. I am not ambitious enough to attempt to figure out who I am misreading there without first sorting out the scum group.

Adorable is in there still because shelly going to the defense of Adorable with "Noraa/Adorable is not s/s" (which I remember her repeating a few times) is a pretty scummy way to defend someone while leaving plenty of room to back out if necessary. I also may be falling for the WIFOM of Fred's fake out, but it just seemed like the kind of thing designed to push a scum buddy into the green zone. I had a slight town lean on her way back because the "A -> B" logic of her posts read as earnest and sincere, but she has a bit of experience behind her and I don't think that is too high a bar for her to fake.

Where I said DGB is scum.

Spoiler:

Finally. I recommend cursing shelly for dodging 2151 1000000 times.

That reveal needed a drum roll.
My recommendation is again shelly for dodging 2151 1000001 times.

Not an easy mode free win then.
Shelly thinks I am obvscum but will not try very hard to get me killed because she knows as soon as the scroll is in my hands it will be heading in her direction.

I'm not sure about shooting Adorable. I think the general OMGUS focus shows a fairly consistent perspective but from what she says Adorable has a meta of doing this which might mean she is playing it up here. Will be interesting to see how she responds to the HURT at least.

*WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM*

All active obvtown would have shot shelly here right?

*WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM*

VOTE: shellyc
This surely doesn't need much discussing? Two bullets she has dodged, let's just give her the damn scroll and be done with it.

A small selection of the times I said to curse shelly, but full picture requires an ISO.

And yes, I know that all three of us are out the door until there's been a red flip or we are all eliminated. But if one of us is scum then they must think they can change that.

[UNOwen]

I never scroll Noraa unless Pooky and Fidget have both been flipped first. The only circumstance where I scroll her now is faced with a final 3 of Bell/MURDERCAT/Noraa and even then I would consider all arguments since the game would count on it, although my expectation in that situation would be that it would end with me cursing Noraa and leaving MURDERCAT/Bell as the last players standing.

[UNOwen]

Yes, so Owno this is a very good point. Because even if you’re town, how do we know you won’t scroll Noraa? Because let’s say I shoot either town!Pooky or town!Fidget, if you’re town and you scroll Noraa, if whomever is left from Pooky/Fidget now has an in into the townblock, because while you are now arguing for Pooky!scum, you’ve made it extremely clear that Noraa is your strongest sr, no? So that makes you a threat regardless of alignment but still if I was convinced you were town over Figet/Pooky, I obviously wouldn’t shoot you but I’m not. There is actually more evidence for both Fidget!town and Pooky!town than Owno!town.

I have no scum reads left. My weakest town reads in order are Pooky -> Fidget -> Noraa. But if it is Noraa then I am the only one who would shoot her out of you/Bell/MURDERCAT/Noraa. That is why I wanted to survive, to cover that risk. Don't curse me because you think I'm going to try and be a hero by taking out my controversial paranoid suspicion instead of following the PoE.

But if you think I am more likely to be scum than Pooky or Fidget then obviously that's fair enough reason to scroll me.

[UNOwen]

@Owno, LLD didn’t have Pooky as a sr, so maybe scum wanted to take her out early before Theta and Tayl0r were eliminated, because she was coming after both Shelley and you and she has you in her PoE as last scum. So her scroll looks worse for you than Fidget and not at all bad for Pooky.

And considering Shelley’s already been flipped, this looks good for Fidget now as well.

I'll try not to mention that this shows LLD was also concerned about the risk of Noraa scum... oh wait.

That post was made after LLD had been handed the scroll, I don't think she mentioned anything about suspecting me before that. I recall she might have mentioned something about Pooky though, but not sure what without checking.

[UNOwen]

I’m already dead, so Idk why you’re even mentioning me here? Bell already trs MC more than Noraa anyway, so in the extremely unlikely chance Noraa is scum, they’ve already got that covered but this is the reason I think it’s you. No one imo should be suspicious of Noraa rn and you are basically arguing that you need to get to the f4 to scroll her?

I don’t believe she’s ever scum here anyway, so you could just get her voted out and then paranoia her on shooting MC and if you’re scum, you win.

I mean I'm explaining why I wanted to survive this phase. I know I'm never going to make it through PoE to the point where I would scroll Noraa anymore, so it doesn't matter. Bell seems to be suggesting he agrees with my ordering as well, so I no longer even need to be around in the next phase to ensure the Noraa scum argument is heard if it gets that far.

All that is left is if you are right that the scum is within Pooky/Fidget/Me (and I still think you probably are), then I'm trying to convince you that if you want to end the game here you definitely won't by cursing me and probably will if you curse Pooky.

[UNOwen]

See you’re the only one who’s acting really suspicious here. Neither Fidget or Pooky are trying to paranoia anyone on either Bell or Noraa.

Good point.

[UNOwen]

Bell doesn’t want Noraa dying anywhere before f2. I am not giving you the chance to paranoiaing town on who’s left from Pooky/Fidget then Noraa. If you can get both of the scrolled before you, that opens the door for you to paranoia Bell/MC on Noraa and then to paranoia her on MC. I’m not remotely paranoiaing on Noraa, so I don’t think there is even any reason to even consider this at this point.

I think this is where I shoot. Town should not be trying to disrupt the townblock and especially with my death, scum!you is the biggest threat, town!you as well.

Then there is no more to say.

[UNOwen]

The push is bad but I do understand why he thinks that way considering uno has been in 2 games with me and both were my scum games.

Exactly, you can't blame me after what you pulled last game!

[UNOwen]

I still think ur scummier than Fidget and ur trying to mess up the town block. Trying to push me is an insane scum gambit or just

townie going crazy on paranoia soda

.
I've continued to always think that in the town block, the weak links are Pooky and me. we are the easiest to drag down and out.

Yeah, I realise I'm coming across as though I've just emerged from a jungle after disappearing somewhere in the first 15 pages...

[UNOwen]

If your mind is set though...

[UNOwen]

Nope!

[UNOwen]

Three shots left.
Pooky then Fidget or Fidget then Pooky, don't even doubt it. After that...
I truly, truly hope that all this was pointless silliness on my part.
Good luck town!

[UNOwen]

It's ok, my attempt to optimise victory was so clumsy I can't blame you too much for thinking it scummy.

[UNOwen]

It might be Fidget just trying to survive as long as possible and hoping something turns up (like Gloria getting the scroll somehow or me failing like I did)
It might be Pooky counting on charisma to turn things around

It probably is.
Hopefully.

[UNOwen]

Spoiler:

The soundtrack to my game the last couple of days!

[UNOwen]

Uno, gun to head, who is it?

Ehhhhhhhhh

Pooky sounds townier but has played scummier. Fidget sounds scummier but with her play idk how she is intending to win.
I thought it was Pooky a few hours ago, now I think maybe it's just Fidget.
Get them both!
And if that doesn't work, town should get you!

[UNOwen]

Noraa winning this game as scum has a certainty beauty to it that I'd rather not mess with

Imagine how upset LLD would be if that happened though?

[UNOwen]

I mean LLD could have passed there and didn't

I know, it's just after day 1 if Noraa pulled it back from there it would be one of the most impossible come backs ever.

[UNOwen]

Too paranoid to live...

(I seriously would never have scrolled Noraa before Pooky/Fidget, but I know raising the issue at all made me look super trigger happy so it was a fair shot)

[UNOwen]

I believe you, for me it was more you wanting to stay in the game at all

Yeah, that certainly was not the towniest I've ever looked...

[UNOwen]

gg all
Thanks for modding Hectic, it was a fantastic game and definitely my favourite of games I've been in. Playerlist was great and the scroll mechanic made for a very tense final stage. The dayvig use was wonderful.

Glad we got the win in the end but Noraa deserves a lot of credit for turning things around after a bad start, she played extremely well and almost managed to win against what was a pretty strong town IMO. Could not have helped having scum three replace outs either.

[UNOwen]

Uno deserves credit for sure, too bad we killed him lol

Game would probably have ended much sooner if final 5 was me/you/Noraa/Gloria/Bell like I wanted, but it would have been much less of an exciting conclusion so for entertainment value my death was best!