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Post Post #4 (isolation #0) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:28 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Most importantly – like Buffy Season 1 I am playing this game under protest as the Comedian I have drawn is not funny and I dislike Jason now for giving me this lame-o.

--

So Vijay, iStark and Peregrine were the last 3 to confirm. I’m looking at activity for these three between the time the thread opened and when I got my role PM to find the scum busy in the QT during Pre-game.

Survey says ....

VOTE: Vijay
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Post Post #6 (isolation #1) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:35 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

What Vijay - you dispute delaying your confirmation while posting all over site before, during and after getting your role-PM?
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Post Post #9 (isolation #2) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:51 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Oh look, OMGUS!

My vote moves from chuckle-vote to real now!

Thanks for being such an easy scum-read Vijay (just like MST3K Mafia)!
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Post Post #12 (isolation #3) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:05 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:MoI, did you open affc with that last to confirm thing, or am I misremembering... on phone.


Had to check. Yup I did.
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Post Post #14 (isolation #4) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:14 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:Can you name a town game where you opened that way?


Aside from this one? I have no clue. I'd need to look at my threads and hunt for one if you are seriously requesting I do.
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Post Post #17 (isolation #5) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:13 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Oh Korlash you don't know me at all. I'm very saddened by this :(

It's clearly OMGUS because he actually has no reason. His 'slip' is clearly fabricated justification to OMGUS me. Not that OMGUS is a scum-tell.

The scum-tell is his reaction to pressure. Just like good old MST3K Mafia where I nailed him Day 1 on his similar reaction to being called out by GreyICE.
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Post Post #25 (isolation #6) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:28 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote: If its a common enough occurrence it shouldn't be an issue. I'd appreciate if you can, I'll ho into more details later tonight.


It’s not very common at all. In fact the only other occurance I could find was -

Open 320: Tit for Tat

I was scum there also. I gave up looking at the end of page 3 of my egosearch threads list.

--

Korlash wrote:We should hang out more then... that or you could send me a copy of your biography. I can't promies you I'll read it, but I'll put it on my mantle and when people come over I can point it out as a bit of a conversation piece.

That was actually a lie.... People never come over... I throw the most loneliest parties *tear*


Well you never sent me an invitation …

Korlash wrote:How is it 'clearly fabricated'?


Well it’s impossible for me to have scum-slipped since I’m Town …

Korlash wrote:what about his reaction is a scum tell exactly? I should look into this M..something... 3K7 or whatever mafia... Do you just have this one example then?


Good luck … it was eaten by Tigers.

He reacted to Grey properly calling him out for being opportunistic scum (via being sucked into a trap) by calling Grey scum and making a poor case on him right afterwards.

Well given that is our ONLY common game before this? No, I don’t have any examples.
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Post Post #34 (isolation #7) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:51 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate wrote:Oh wait shit I can't pass up an excuse to lynch MoI for actual reasons


You'd actually have to have them then other than residual butthurt ...
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Post Post #35 (isolation #8) » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:52 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:Had you read the few posts thus far when you made this post?

-Fate you best be. Cause I'll know. And yes, MoI is scum.


So Pizza is voting me. And you say I'm scum. And you want him to validate his vote to you?

Just curious.
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Post Post #47 (isolation #9) » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:18 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:Where did I ask him to validate his vote?


In the post I quoted Ben. Why the faux denseness?

There is no reason to question if he had read regarding his vote unless you are specifically checking for validation of said vote.

Unless you are just fluffing.

--

Korlash wrote:Are you suggesting votes don't need to be validated if they are placed correctly?


Perish the thought. No, I’m digging into Benmage and his motives.

--

Vijay wrote:The slip was that the title says "when the laughter died" ergo non-funny comedians are scum. Just a thought. Jester is probably his buddy following this logic, although less likely because MoI doing it first weakens it as a tell imo.


Oh so your slip is that non-funny Comedians are scum. And I specifically as said scum who knew this went out of my way to explicitly say I didn’t find my Comedian funny. Complete bullshit away!!!!

Yeah, my vote can stay for the current period.

Vijay wrote:And MoI I'm sure you're experienced enough to know OMGUS implies the lack of valid reasoning or thought process. Me not stating one means you could have only accused me of withholding that. You can only accuse me of OMGUS once you've seen aforementioned reasoning and determined it's status. This is also known as mudslinging scum.


And page 2 of the Vijay scum playbook – attempt to assert that those attacking you are just mudslinging.

It must kill you to get caught this easily.
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Post Post #72 (isolation #10) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:51 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Korlash
– in regards to your conversation with Ben – what is your take on the fact that Ben ostensibly spent tons of posting time on defending how logical my thought process is regarding Vijay as scum and yet keeps his vote parked on me?

Fate is probably scum. He’s floating by posting mostly fluff. Very reminiscent of his play in Metal Gear Solid Mafia.

--

@Ben
– why not comment at all on Fate’s buddying up to you?

Benmage wrote:So don't fuck with my inquiries.


Or what? You’ll vote me? You already are. Remember I’m not some shrinking violet who is in awe of your game Ben. Don’t pretend my play will reflect being such.

Benmage wrote:Ironically, this^ is the epitome of fluffing. You know damn well I wouldn't be, and therefore this sentence adds nothing except to suggest a negative connotation to my actions (Again). We'll call it undermining. You've done it to me before as scum.]


How exactly do I know you wouldn’t be fluffing again? Of course that sentence notes a negative connotation – I’m calling it suspect play. Your whole ‘Benmage is Town don’t undermine me’ shtick really again doesn’t matter one iota to me.

Why haven’t you self-voted yet to confirm you are Town? (yes, this is total sarcasm on my part).

--

Knox wrote: As for a vote I would like to put one on MoI but I think page 3 is a bit early to put someone at L-1 if my count is correct and you never know when a hammer happy person might pop up.


This is not the posting of someone who honestly thinks I’m scum.

1. Why would you worry about a hammer-happy person coming along if you think I’m scum? That would be Pro-Town?
2. Why is Page 3 ‘too early’ for a L-1 vote? I caught iStark at post 10 or so in Buffy the Vampire Slayer Mafia. It did take 5 pages to lynch him but there is not reason to say at all it’s ‘too early’.

This post is from the perspective of scum who knows if I was quickhammered it would not be a scum flip.

UNVOTE: Vijay
VOTE: Knox

Knox wrote:You say the vote has gone from chuckle to real when it looks like it was pretty real with to begin with seeing as you were using real game related reasons for voting Vijay in the first place.


How again is ‘Order of Confirmation’ in any way a real game reason? I’d like you explain that.

Knox wrote:You have no evidence that his vote has no reasoning. He mentioned that he had seen you scum slip and had decided to withhold the information for the moment. And what pressure besides a vote from you and saying that he was classic Vijay scum?


If he had seen an actual scum slip he would have posted I immediately instead of saying “Oh, I saw one. Town points if you can point it out”.

As to what pressure – my vote and calling him out of course. What more do you think I needed at that early stage to get reactions?

Knox wrote:I was scum there also?


Are you not reading the game? Benmage asked me for instances (like A Feast of Crows Mafia, where I was scum) where I started the game with the ‘last to confirm’ RVS vote. Here I responded with the one game I found (Open 320) where I was scum like Feast of Crows.

Knox wrote:Don’t like this, looks forced like you felt the need to bring up you were town.


You know who doesn’t like people calling themselves Town? Scum.

--

Pappums wrote:Bad arguments dont equal scum arguments. This looks like you are going after an easy target.

Unvote
Vote: MoI

I think the debate between Benmage and Korlash looks like town vs. town.


Let’s count the ways this post is scummy –

1. Hop on the top wagon while commenting on nothing else in thread? Check.
2. Invoking the ‘easy target’ argument – that’s a classic scum move. Check
3. Calling the exchange between Benmage and Korlash TvT? Zang tell check.

I’d certainly entertain a pappums vote based on this post alone.

--

Vijay wrote:And MoI, you've seen me play one game as scum. I played horribad but really it's up to you if you think you can ascertain meta with one game. It's just that this lends weight to the going for the easy target argument. Surely you don't think one game is enough evidence.


It is rock solid meta? Of course not, not that meta ever is. However my experience with you, however limited, gives me a gut read that your behavior here is that of scum.

That being said – why are you talking to me in this post as if I’m Town (that’s the perspective you are showing here)? I’m your scum suspect and your vote currently.

--

iStark wrote: I seriously don't have anything to comment on at the moment.


Really? There is nothing to comment on?
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Post Post #76 (isolation #11) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:15 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate wrote:ohohoho?

More meta reads and can't even back it up with a vote?

BRING IT ON MOI

YOU SCARED OF SCUM?


Yeah, like I've ever been frightened of you Fate.

Want to go 1v1 again? I'll do that if you like.

Especially since you are doing nothing but fluffing but are able to pop up 5 minutes after my post to do this. Actively watching the thread but not posting scum-hunting? Why is that?
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Post Post #80 (isolation #12) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:42 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate wrote:
Yeah I'm fluff posting, is that all you can amount for a case on me?


See this is a Fate scum-tell.

"Where's the case on me"

When have you ever given 2 shits about a case? Never. You are all about pretending that posting in all-caps repeatedly and throwing appealing to repitition is good scum-hunting.

But now it's "Where's the case on me"? Lulz.
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Post Post #83 (isolation #13) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:49 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yates wrote:That is straight up OMGUS voting. There is nothing scummy about wanting to extend day one for a bit to extract more information. This is especially true when a full HALF of the players have 5 or fewer posts and 4 have 2 or fewer.
You would have been on anyone that put you at L-1 for putting you there two soon.
You don't get to play both sides of the fence. This is the first time in the game I have started to think you actually may be scummy as opposed to your usual "charming" self.


Um, no. Can you prove the bolded? Because it's a rather large stretch for you to assert you know what I would or would not do.

And I disagree completely with your assessment that it was a Pro-Town perspective post. Especially given that Knox didn't bother to focus on anything else until proded by Vijay about other suspects.
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Post Post #85 (isolation #14) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:00 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yates wrote:Is this a serious question?


Serious in that your assertion is unprovable and rather stupid, yes.
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Post Post #94 (isolation #15) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:18 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yates wrote:So you would rather argue semantics than the general point. Is this what you are saying?


Of course not. Don’t be a moron. The whole point was that your premise was untenable. Here’s what you wrote

That is straight up OMGUS voting. There is nothing scummy about wanting to extend day one for a bit to extract more information. This is especially true when a full HALF of the players have 5 or fewer posts and 4 have 2 or fewer.
You would have been on anyone that put you at L-1 for putting you there two soon. You don't get to play both sides of the fence.
This is the first time in the game I have started to think you actually may be scummy as opposed to your usual "charming" self.


The bolded is the important point. Your premise is that I am playing ‘both sides of the fence’ based on what course of action you are stating I would have taken.

Yet you don’t know at all what course I would have taken. So your conclusion is wrong since your premise is wrong. That’s hardly ‘arguing semantics’ that’s clearly showing that your argument is stupid.

Honestly I’d say that your whole “It’s Pro-Town to give it a few days / Nevermind you called me stupid VOTE YOU / He’s at L-1” looks like complete scum posturing to get ‘Town cred’ but Fate’s post setting you up for lynch tomorrow means odds are slim you are scum with him. So you are probably just typical bad Town Yates.

--

Benmage wrote:Claim time


Lulz, no. I can’t wait for you to get to a computer to show me ‘stuff’ later though. I eagerly await your insight.

--

Fate wrote:wait what the hell kinda post is this

are you his buddy o-O


Hey look at this – it’s Fate-scum grooming his mislynch candidate for tomorrow.

Too bad you will not live long enough to get the chance to push it.
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Post Post #97 (isolation #16) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:28 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate wrote:Yup. Totally setting up two mislynches in a row by saying he's your buddy and then if you flip town he's scum anyway.


It's totally awesome that you admit up front exactly what you are doing. Cheers.

Why did you duck the 1v1 Fate? Chicken as usual?
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Post Post #100 (isolation #17) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:40 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Of course you were dead wrong then Fate. That's pretty much a given.

Doesn't change the fact that today is the prime day to do it. Town would be hurt the least getting it out of the way today. So what do you say? Man up for once!
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Post Post #101 (isolation #18) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:41 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yates wrote:I disagree. I see your dodging the overarching point in favor of absolutely arguing semantics a scum tell of the highest order for you. You typically don't need to resort to that kind of nonsense. And yet, here we are.


Yes, please continue to ignore the rest of the post where I show exactly why your premise was incorrect. Moron.
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Post Post #103 (isolation #19) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:52 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:Lack of claim .... someone quote dgbs sig for me.


Yes please ... I always love to be reminded how moronic it is :D

Ben I am still waiting for your 'content' ....
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Post Post #107 (isolation #20) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:17 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yates wrote:Why would he 1v1 with you? Where's the Town motivation in that? You are at L-1 and he is without vote. You have everything to gain and he has everything to lose.


See this is what you don't understand ... Town Fate who honestly thought I was scum would not hestitate to do a 1v1 with MoI scum. Not in an instant. Because he'd LOVE to have the 'I forced MoI into a 1v1 as scum and got him lynched'. It would make his week. Go look at ReaperCharlie's Mini Theme Metropolis game. ISO Fate and around Day 3 watch as he thinks he's Town who can do this and get bragging rights forever.

And TownFate who has ScumMoI at L-1 Day 1 on page 5? He's take that in a second.

And that is exactly why he's not TownFate. What does he stand to lose if I'm scum again? Nothing.

But he doesn't believe it. Because in his heart he knows I'm not scum because he is. And that there is ever so small a chance that if he agrees to a 1v1 when I flip Town he might get hung for it.
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Post Post #108 (isolation #21) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:18 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate wrote:
ohhhh nooo the insults! You're trying to fake your town meta of asshole pretty hard.

But there's no bite to it, just pure scared scum


Hahaha. Poor old Fate whining about insults. That's rich.

But I knew you were fucking chicken scum who didn't have the balls to put your money where your mouth is.
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Post Post #110 (isolation #22) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:17 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yates wrote:
I guess this is my point. He is already voting for you and you are already at L-1. If you flip Town, he's already on the hook with the rest of us as scum suspects. Unless you are suggesting he should boldly proclaim the Town should lynch him if you flip Town? If this is what you are saying, there are Town reasons for not wanting to do that as well. He could be the Doctor. He could be a cop. He could be a BP. There are LOTS of reasons not to take this on. So I'm not buying your argument unless you actually
are
scum in which this proposition would make perfect sense. This is exactly why my vote is on you.
You haven't been posting Town at all and your reasoning has zero Town motivation.


This is a whole bunch of babble.

I'm doing what I'm doing as a means of assessing Fate's alignment. I know how Fate players much better than you do. The bolded is just fluffery. Build your case as to why I'm 'not posting Town' and I knock out your arguments. If your statement is just that "I'm not" well congrats ... that means pretty much nothing.
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Post Post #112 (isolation #23) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:25 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So you can't. Ok, noted.
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Post Post #114 (isolation #24) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:31 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So now I await Benmage's 'non-phone' content and to see whether anyone is willing to risk their life to mislynch me today.

Good times!
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Post Post #135 (isolation #25) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:23 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:I also read MGS (prior to replacing in) And feel free to both PM Faraday. But I had pegged Fate as scum in MGS. His play is different here. I read him as much more genuinely town. So I have him as town. He can buddy up to me all he wants. I'm not going to disregard him completely. But I've been really good at reading him of late. And he's bleeding town.


Oh you’ve gotten good at reading Fate? I’d like to see the links to all the completed games where Town-Benmage has read Town-Fate correctly. They should all post-date Stars Aligned 3 obviously since you clearly couldn’t read him there.

If your answer is “Well it never has actually occurred in a game” then this I’ll chock up to posturing that may stem from you being partners.

Benmage wrote:Really, because I remember you using my calling of you out for undermining as an example to call out other scum when you were town. Wasn't the game Supernatural Mafia?

More MoI fallacies.


Please support said rememberance with a link. You ‘remembering’ but not being able to back it up with support does not support your ‘MoI using fallacies’ argument.

Benmage wrote:Wait... are you saying your vote on Vijay for confirming late, had ZERO substance to it, and was equivalent to the sky is blue vote xxx.... Because late confirmation is an old scumtell.


Why do you insist on asking questions to which the answer is obvious? Of course it is an RVS chuckle vote. What moron uses a confirmination period of 24 hours as ‘evidence’ of scum behavior?

Benmage wrote:1. Deflection check.
2. AtE check.
3. Zang tell again. That was used in AFFC too by you as scum. Tsk tsk MoI you've been better...uhh...CHECK.


1. Pointing out scummy behavior isn’t deflection. It’s scum-hunting. Why are you so invested in buzzword bingo Benmage?
2. AtE? Do you know what AtE is? It’s calling yourself Town with no reason why. Much like you do in your ‘I’m being Undermined’ arguments. Calling out a scum-motivated play is not AtE. More buzzword bingo and not even used correctly to boot. Terrible argument Benmage.
3. And I can show you tons of games where I use it as Town. Jason’s Dr. Who Mini Theme was one in fact. So here you are trying to ascribe as a scum-tell something I do as both Town and Scum. Again, terrible Ben.

Benmage wrote:Fluff


Oh so fluff is a scum-tell? Can you link me to any games where Town Benmage has used this tell before? If it is common it shouldn’t be a problem.

Benmage wrote:3. He refuses to claim when at L-1. I've seen this a bagillion times by scum. Both refusing and stalling.


And here is where you took it one step too far and made your alignment known. Bad move Ben.

Benmage is here trying to assert that it is a ‘common’ scum move to not claim at L-1. Yet he doesn’t provide any links? Why no links Ben?

And furthermore he knows for me it is NOT a scum-tell. There are only two games I’ve EVER refused to claim at L-1.

Ooba’s ASoFAI Large Theme Mafia
Seinfeld Mafia

Both of which I was Town in. And in fact Benmage directly saw that in ooba’s game.

You blew it Ben. You didn’t remember the facts that should have been much more top of mind than Supernatural Mafia. Ooba’s game happened far more recently. Yet you are cherry-picking your ‘recollections’ as opposed to honestly scum-hunting.

--

Vijay wrote: @MoI: regarding that post where you said I was posting as if you were town, you deliberately misinterpretted it. I posted that with the mindset of you being a better player, thus causing the mistakes you made to be deliberate and scummy instead of just newbie-ness.


No, I interpreted it in the only logical manner. Because your assertion that someone as a better player would make that ‘slip’ but a newb would not doesn’t make any sense.

--

Pappums wrote:I think you should go ahead and claim considering V2V has expressed intent to hammer.


Nope. But who are my partners? I’d like your thoughts since you are avoiding commenting on anyone else. Why is that?

--

knox wrote:Seriously? Just because that’s not how you play the game doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. How is ending the day on page 3 helpful to the town? Some of the best scum slips/finds can be found in the first day at later stages of the game, the more content the better.


Oh, so you are suggesting the outcome of the day would be bad if you hammered ‘scum’ on page 3? Either you are Town who is too timid with no actual drive of your own or you are scum mining for ‘Town cred’. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you aren't playing poorly in calling you possible scum.

knox wrote:I also noticed that the town lost in Buffy the Vampire Slayer after two quick lynches. YOU might have had a good read on the game but kept them to yourself and as strong/loud players often do you were NK. Leaving the rest of the town in a weak position, especially the replacements. I think this is a very poor point for your argument.


The Town did not lose because they quicklynched scum on Day 1 and Day 2. It’s rather preposterous to even suggest. Scum Camn was also obv at the end of Day 2. Town lost because three of its players were VIs and scum were not. One of whom hammered obv-Town in LYLO because he was ‘annoying’. So your point here is terrible.

knox wrote:It was considered a tell when I used to play mafia, people would often say the last person to confirm was scummy for the reasons you stated. That fact that you went out of your way to check player activity and that you pushed this information like a real vote. It didn’t read as a lulz giggles vote.


Well you probably need to upgrade your reading skills then. As to where you played before? You aren’t there now. This is MS not random.site.org.

knox wrote:Or he could have left it hanging to test your reaction? Is it your line of thinking or the highway?


What reaction test would it be? Reacting to see if someone was stupid enough to buy it? I’d love to see your reasoning as to what possible reactions that would help in scum-hunting it would bring.

knox wrote:You know who likes calling themselves town? Scum.


Oh really? I’d love to see links supporting your position that scum call themselves Town more than Town does. Support your premise!

knox wrote:You expect other players to claim at L-1, why won’t you? And before you jump down my throat as to why I’m not voting you, I want to hear your claim. Preferably soon.


Show your work – please link to where I have asked anyone this game to claim? You keep making statements that you can’t support and it only is strengthening my read that you are scum with Ben / Fate.

--

iStark wrote:@MoI, I'm stating intent to hammer.


Good for you? I'm clearly not a Bomb since that is a scum role so who hammers isn't relevant.
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Post Post #138 (isolation #26) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:45 am

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iStark wrote:Implying I don't think you're scum?


No implying you hammering or not is a moot point in context of the game.
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Post Post #140 (isolation #27) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:58 am

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Yates wrote:Hard to say this early on but iStark and knox immediately come to mind as suspects for claiming they would vote but not voting you as that would be suspicious as hell. On this point I will agree with you - especially given I haven't seen either present a case. Threat to vote is not the same as an actual vote and jumping on an easy wagon is certainly not a Town tell. I'd obviously cut iStark a little slack as "intent to hammer" isn't suspicious as long as you are willing to follow through on it. I'd also take a close look at Fate and Benmage based solely on distancing. Clearly we need to see a flip and more content to determine how scummy everyone actually is.


Um whut? Your original issue with me was that I called out Knox's "Hey I'd put you at L-1 but it's early" play as scummy. Now you agree with it?

Does ... not ... compute!
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Post Post #142 (isolation #28) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:06 am

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vijay2vasandani wrote:I kinda have to agree with MoI on this one.


Don't do that ... I'm scum so the things I say shouldn't be considered valid :roll:
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Post Post #149 (isolation #29) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:42 am

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Benmage wrote:But quickly, MoI, my point on slow claiming is scum in general not in reference to you.

And if you want to use Oobas game, VEZO WAS SXUM THERE AND REFUSED TO CLAIM.


That's right try to dodge the point.

YOU DIRECTLY SAW TOWN-MOI REFUSE TO CLAIM.

But now you are trying to say it's a scum-play for me by linking it to OTHER players. Terrible logic right there. But you are scum so of course you will keep hammering on it via Appeal to Repetition.
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Post Post #151 (isolation #30) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:47 am

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MOD – I’ll be LA from 4:30 PM EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.


I think Korlash’s question to Yates at needs to be answered post-haste!

--

Knox wrote:I’m saying the outcome of the game would be better if we nailed scum on page 20. There would be more to work with the next day and for the rest of the game. Are you really saying more information is a bad thing? It is a very short sighted tactic.


And I’m saying you have no idea what you are talking about if you think I’m scum. Because you’ve said I’m scum already. What more is 17 pages going to get you? If I was scum I certainly wouldn’t be doing anything to give you MORE information and what you would get would be 17 pages of of people not doing any actual scum-hunting (note that not a single player is really focused on anyone aside from me right now).

Information is useful only if it would actually help find scum.

Knox wrote:The town lost. It is not an individual game and you can’t pick and choose your team mates. You can blame incompetent town all you want but you still lost and the quick lynches were a factor in that.


Nope. You are wrong. You can’t give a single explanation about how lynching scum both days contributed to the loss. It certainly didn’t make players play poorly. It didn’t make Monkeyman hammer Kuribo because he was annoyed.

You can make statements all you like but that doesn’t make you correct. And the fact that you just admitted you skimmed the game shows you really don't have an understanding of what went on.

Knox wrote:How about your reaction to it? I’m not saying it was a good test but it did make people take pause.


My reaction is what I would expect anyone with a brain to make – Vijay clearly didn’t have a slip as he would have actually said so if he thought he did. That compounded with his defensiveness and play similar to MST3K gave me enough reason to push him.

Knox wrote:I brought it up more so because the post in context looked forced and awkward and there was no need to bring it up. You were avoiding answering a question with a ‘der I’m town’. I never said scum claim they are town more than town. I’m just replying to you in the same manner that you did to me. Maybe I should have asked you to support your premise.


Maybe you should have. But you didn’t. Which is why I suspect you – you look like you are more interested in being cheeky than actually scum-hunting.

Knox wrote:Has anyone else in this game been at L-1? Well then that point was completely useless and taken out of context. I was referring to in other games. The only game I’ve read with you in it was Buffy which I skimmed but in that you expected iStark to claim when he was at L-1. So my question still stands.


Oh so you skimmed the game. That would explain why you didn’t understand that this post was not me asking him to claim but explicitly saying he was going to fake-claim since he was obvious scum.

Knox wrote:On a side note do you always insult people when they don’t agree with you?


If you think I’m insulting you then you had better quickly develop a thick skin if you want to stay around MS. Players like kuribo or Fate (when he isn’t scum laying low) will make you cry for Mommy if you think me pointing out the flaws in your logic and posts is insulting you.
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Post Post #156 (isolation #31) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:06 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:You're apparently denying my Supernatural reference.


What Supernatural reference? The one you allude to but never actually showed where it was?

Yeah, your responses here make this a good move at this point.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Benmage

Locking my vote in on scum.
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Post Post #157 (isolation #32) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:09 am

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pappums rat wrote:What, MoI, are you just going to completely ignore this point against you? LOL.


You are doing just what Benmage does - cherry-picking your references.

Why don't you mention Jason's large TV Mafia game where I attacked players strongly and was Town. Is it because it undermines your 'meta'?

That post is an off-hand reference to a single game and some fluff. What should I have mentioned in particular.

Also - who are your other scum-reads? Are you saying you can't have more than one? The 'I wait until flips' is a pretty weak response.
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Post Post #158 (isolation #33) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:14 am

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Benmage wrote:I just illustrated that scum refuse to claim. That's always my point. You trying to manipulate your own Meta does nothing for me.

Scum refuse to claim.

You are refusing to claim.


This is also pretty stupid logic. If I was scum I would be claiming right away to out Power-roles / make a creative claim to save my ass. And you know this to be true as I readily fake-claimed Cop under no pressure in AFFC. Funny how you forget that in your little tidbit. So you are again selectively using direct knowledge in hopes to secure this mislynch.

And of course I've shown you the only two times I've ever refused to claim. Both are Town. You can't find me any other instances. And yet you want to say "You doing that is Town is irrelevant, scum do it" which is so terrible I can't even begin. What, worried you can't refute is so trying to hand-wave it away?

I know you aren't a complete moron Ben. So it is glaringly obvious you are scum.
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Post Post #160 (isolation #34) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:22 am

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Oh look - Pappum's list of possible scum is exactly the same as Yates' list.

And both target the two newest players in the game as my possible partners.

Scum-tastic!
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Post Post #162 (isolation #35) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:31 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:Yes I've caught you fabricating.


KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


No Town reason to actually be fucking fabricating evidence.
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Post Post #164 (isolation #36) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:32 am

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And by that I mean - you've not provided one bit of evidence that you've caught anything of the sort.
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Post Post #167 (isolation #37) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:33 am

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Benmage wrote:Ive recently seen and caught you as scum and played with you as scum. This is scumMoI.


Really? Provide that link. Again .. you are making references that you can't back up.

I'll take that 1v1 in a heartbeat. Commit to it in your next post!
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Post Post #170 (isolation #38) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:35 am

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pappums rat wrote:Misrep me moar bro. I never said they were your partners, I said they have given off the most scumtells IMO. I wouldnt start talking about who your partners could be until after you were to flip scum.


Nice attempt to play it off.

Your reads as to who else is scum target the two newest players in the game. That's classic scum playing it safe material with your reads - no need to piss off veterans who are Town. Keep your profile as low as possible and don't make enemies.

Now granted it could just be terrible play on your part to only suspect new players. But between you and Yates I get the gut there is at least 1 scum.
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Post Post #171 (isolation #39) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:36 am

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Benmage wrote:Committed, I hammer you?


Doesn't matter who hammers me.

But you need to get that seventh vote. Until then I'll be rallying to get your lynched today.
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Post Post #173 (isolation #40) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:14 am

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Yates wrote:Not at all. First, that isn't my initial issue with you. This was an additional argument we had regarding the scum value of not putting someone at L-1. You assigned that scum value while I did not. My argument is that this action is not scummy on its own. It does, however, become scummy AFTER a scum flip. I'm not assigning a point value to it but you earn scum credit if you don't/won't vote for scum. This is a very different argument.


The flaw with this attempt at an explanation is of course zero scum have flipped so your "Oh, it's scummy now" doesn't hold water.

Want to try again?
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Post Post #175 (isolation #41) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:18 am

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Did I ever say you couldn't be scum together? Find that for me.

That said ... it is possible you are just your terrible at reading me self as Town. And Benmage's play is terribly scummy as I've outlined.

Don't worry - with him agreeing to a 1v1 if I get lynched you both will be solved by Day 2.
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Post Post #177 (isolation #42) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:24 am

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Yates wrote:Also, this can not go unsaid. You accuse others of being scummy for "cherry picking" then do it yourself. AGAIN I find you telling people to do as you say but not as you do and it's a load of crap.


Where the fuck did I cherry pick?

Fact - your primary 'reads' outside of me were the newbs in question. You said "I'd keep an eye on Ben and Fate" which is about as fence-sitting as you can get.

No response for the fact your answer as to why you suspect knox now makes no sense? I understand - your best fabricated response didn't fly and so you want to dodge.
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Post Post #183 (isolation #43) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:36 am

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Fate wrote:Now you see why I didn't 1v1 you, I had some feeling you were town but was lynching you anyway because you are toxic to the gamestate.


Fucking spare me. Toxic to the gamestate as a reason for my lynch. Coming from you who has made a fucking career of being an ass regardless of alignment.
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Post Post #184 (isolation #44) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:02 am

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Well so everyone is aware in-case something blows up suddenly -

Yates just directly linked to this game in another on-going game.
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Post Post #190 (isolation #45) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:42 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Peregrine
- Have you not been reading the thread? I've laid out a number of my suspicions clearly.
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Post Post #192 (isolation #46) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:59 am

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PeregrineV wrote:Sure, but I want a succinct single post that we can refer back to should you flip town. Kind of like when you die as town and make your last effort to help.


I'll make that post when I die then. Until that point I'm not giving a full reads list just to humor you given I have no clue who YOU think at this point is scum.
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Post Post #196 (isolation #47) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:45 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

PeregrineV wrote:As in, what if you "plan" to make that post, but the mod comes in and posts the death scene? Then where would we be?


I'm not worried about that for reason that should be clear if you were following along.
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Post Post #255 (isolation #48) » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:19 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Ok first catching up with what has happened during my LA –

--

Korlash wins the thread for his sly Austin Powers reference.

Korlash wrote: I also assumed MOI was scum in that game, either Ben or MOI can tell me if I'm wrong on either account.


Yes I was scum in Feast.

--

pappums wrote:That said, I still think MoI is flailing obvscum and needs the hammer.


Let’s see – buzzword bingo combined with further complete lack of anything other than active-lurking …

I smell scum!

--

Peregrine wrote:I have been, but nothing's been clear how you can make Jason hold off flipping you once you've been lynched.


Ok, a better question would have been have you been reading AND applying critical reasoning to what you are reasoning? Because there is clearly enough in the thread posted by myself and others for you to draw the conclusion as to why I think that.

Peregrine wrote: Does that matter? I'm debating whether to hammer, but the result would still be the same regardless of who hammers.


Summarize why you have hammered me in a short paragraph please.

Peregrine wrote: Yates has a point.


What is it? That I was scum opening with a ‘Last to Confirm’ RVS vote there just like Feast of Crows which kicked off the whole line of discussion?

--

Yates wrote:THAT looks like a slip. I didn't notice it until knox brought it up and I read the posts in sequence [as posted].


So let me get this straight –

Yet you are happy to suggest I’m dumb enough, as scum, to go out of my way to find the only other game besides here and Feast of Crows where I opened with a “Last to Confirm” RVS vote that is bured deep in my personal thread list, bring it up showing like Feast I was scum there also, and make a slip regarding my alignment here.

There’s a disconnect there that makes little sense to me

Yates wrote:
This whole post is a pile of shit, korlash. It's you waving your e-penis around trying to intimidate newer players and, again, it is not impressive to me.


Oh, so you can’t be questioned about your motives because you are ‘new’? For the record you’ve been here ove 6 months. You are no longer ‘new’.

Yates wrote:
Now, you're correct about one thing, I will be ignoring future questions from you unless *I* deem them pertinent to scum hunting or advancing the game.


I’m trying to fathom whether you are really this terrible a player. It’s the only way I can see this post coming from a Town aligned person.

Yates wrote: Even with these posts added, it doesn't change three facts: one, that he admitted to being scum when opening that way; two, "also" is not the same as "but;" and three, he was unable to point to a game where he opened as Town in this fashion


So what? I’m quite serious about this. I’ve played over 80 games here on MS. Are you trying to suggest that a RVS opening I’ve made in a whopping 3 games total here is strong enough evidence that I’m scum. Keep in mind I have to have at least 20 scum games here.

Yates wrote: Also, Pot, as Kettle I would like to tell you it's ok if you just want to admit that it's a delayed OMGUS from this nonsense:


You are suggesting that Vijay’s suspicion of you stems not from your posting recently but OMGUS due to a small throwaway at – a post where you don’t even call him scum?

Yates wrote: You should also reevaluate your methodology for determining scum after the game if you think putting someone at L-1 is scummy. What happens when he flips scum? Was putting MoI at L-1 scummy then?
If he flips Town, I already know I'm going to take a beating for it and draw attention that I would expect scum would want to avoid
[b/]
.


1. So it isn’t scummy to put someone at L-1 but it is also not scummy not to put someone at L-1 if they are the exact same person? I just want you to be clear on your stance here.
2. The bolded further makes me question the possibility you are just bad Town – you are saying that ‘drawing attention to yourself’ is not scum behavior. Yet I went out of my way to do meta legwork for Benmage that brought attention to myself. Yet I’m scum for doing it?

Yates wrote: Fun exercise to back up your claim: do you have links showing scum putting Town at L-1 on Day 1? It should be fairly easy if it's scum meta for this site. I just checked my games [short list] and didn't see it in any of them. Thanks for looking into that for me.


This is terrible. You are asking for generic meta regarding the site (which has absolutely zero to do with how YOU play) about scum putting Town at L-1? What does that prove? For kicks if I have time I’ll go through Mini Theme games and see how many instances I can find for you.
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Post Post #256 (isolation #49) » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:07 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Now – a summary on my top suspects for scum –

I think there is at least 1 scum in Benmage / Fate and probably at least 1 scum in pappums / Yates.

Benmage
– His scum-hunting is very inconsistent, contradictory and generally looks very much like someone looking to portray someone as scummy as opposed to actually looking to find scum.

Let’s look at his Cognititve Dissoance regarding whether limited occurance Meta is useful or not.

On one hand Benmage things limited use meta is strong scum evidence – the first point in his case at is that “He's opened this way twice before as scum. Check.”. Thus me having two occurrences where I opened the game with a specific type of RVS vote as scum is very strong evidence.

Yet when presented with equally strong evidence that certain behavior of mine via meta is evidence I am Town he attempts to handwave it away as irrelevant. Pure Cognitive Dissoance – he only believe that meta is ‘strong’ when it serves his purposes. When it works against him? It’s meaningless.

Then we have gems like this on the subject–

Benmage wrote: MoI in the same way your trying to refute my claim that scum slow claim or refuse to claim with personal Meta, YOU SHOULD be self voting because I used your Meta yo show you open games the way you did here.


What is the point of this other than circular logic rhetoric? I mean the premise of it is ludicrously bad – I should self-vote because I opened with an RVS vote similar to how I have as scum in the past. Nevermind the fact that self-voting is moronic regardless of my actual alignment so this is just rhetoric fluff as opposed to actual scum-hunting.

And let’s look at some other inconsistencies in his logic –



So I’m a good player. Yet I’m easily caught by making a RVS vote that you twigged to immediately. That’s not indicative of a good player. So again he's making arguments that justify his stance as particular junctures as opposed to arguments he believes.

Next we have his references he refuses to back up –

He keeps making some reference to Supernatural Mafia (a large Theme we played awhile ago) in which we were Neighbors together – I was Town and he was scum. He said that he remembers the following in

Really, because I remember you using my calling of you out for undermining as an example to call out other scum when you were town. Wasn't the game Supernatural Mafia?


Firstly I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. I was Town in a game and somehow me being called out for undermining scum Benmage was used by me to find OTHER scum? Makes little sense.

Secondly I’ve asked him to actually link to what he was referencing here. Instead of doing so he keeps saying rhetoric like “You deny my Supernatural reference?”.

Yes Ben – I deny you using a game where I was Town and you were Scum to somehow say I am scum here especially since you will NOT back up your vague allusion.

I also asked Ben to back up his “I can read Fate like a book” with instances where Town Benmage properly read Town Fate. I’ve yet to see any provide links that post-date Stars Aligned 3.

Lastly in he tries to assert certain things are scum-tells that aren’t by any stretch of the imagination (such as fluffing [especially given the disconnect re: Fate] and ‘undermining’ by questioning him)

I’m happy where my vote is for the moment.

Fate
– His ISO completely lacks scum-hunting. For example he says that when he hasn’t even given any. Constant 'Appeals to Repetition' of "you are scum" aren't scum-hunting.

Lots of empty rhetoric ( is him just posting “he’s scum” with no support for why) and fluff in his iso (, , as examples). Yet Benmage isn’t calling Fate scum for fluffing. That’s another reason I find Ben so scummy in that my ‘fluffing’ is evidence of scum behavior but Fate is rock solid Town despite his ISO being filled with it.

Also – look how many players Fate calls scum in said ISO. Hint – it’s one. He doesn’t bother to even poke at anyone else.

Fate-scum will buddy players he finds to be strong partners – MGS is just an example of this. So his extreme buddying to Benmage could come with Ben of either alignment. So I am not ruling out them as possible partners.

Then we have where Fate uses a combination of AtE (I’ll flip Town) and fear-mongering “You have to say that you can’t read me if you shoot me” to try to extricate himself from the “MoI is scum” push he’s made all game. Not a Town oriented post given it pre-supposes I’m Town (and his reasoning for still supporting my lynch is ludicrously bad).

Lastly Fate is not even in the top 4 (that’s the top third) posters in the game. For someone who is the most prolific poster on site in terms of total posts this is pretty much the equivalent of active lurking for him. And his ISO supports that.

Pappums
– Read his ISO. He parks his vote on my at and has active lurked his way through the game. As I’ve pointed out he’s doing no scum-hunting and only has provide suspects beyond me when prodded.

Yates
– I think my ISO will show why I think he’s scum – he like Benmage has some serious disconnect between his own behavior and what he indicates he thinks is scum behavior.

I’m still waiting for him to justify his 180 on knox’s alignment re knox’s failure to make an L-1 vote given his explanation (not voting for scum) isn’t valid yet since we have no flips by which he can justify the flip-flop.
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Post Post #260 (isolation #50) » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:14 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate wrote:I told you I wasn't posting this week-end MoI, stop fucking forcing a scum read on me.


Hey Fate - how does you not posting this weekend have anything to do with your complete lack of scum-hunting BEFORE the weekend? That'd be great.

As to 'forcing a scum read' on you - do you honestly think I'd be doing that as Town?
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Post Post #265 (isolation #51) » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:20 am

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Fate wrote:And yes you would force reasons to try to find me as scum AS town yourself because you're paranoid and can't read me for shit and read me wrong the last two-three times I was scum.


Funny ... I've only played with you in ONE game where you were scum IRIC (MGS Mafia). So where does this "You misread me as scum two-three times" come from? Links would be fantastic!
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Post Post #266 (isolation #52) » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:23 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate your Pizzadude read is fantastic given you have been coasting by in the game parked on me with not a single line of reasoning why I was scum (yes, "LULZ YOU SCUMZ" isn't reasonsing). So pretty much you've done exactly what Pizza has done. Yet he's scum and you are Town?

And Fate not giving a shit doesn't really sell me you as Town. Town-Fate has never given two shits about how anyone else posted. Your 'MoI is a jerk' reason for being disconnected is really, really weak.
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Post Post #268 (isolation #53) » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:26 am

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So you are unable to substantiate your claims that I'm 'misreading you' because you've 'fooled me so badly'?

And why is Benmage Town? I'd love to hear your reasons.
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Post Post #287 (isolation #54) » Tue May 01, 2012 3:02 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Peregrine
– You dodged my questions at . Answer them in your next post or I’ll sheep Korlash and vote you.

@Pizzadude
– Who are scum and why aren’t you voting for them at this juncture?

Benmage is still obv-scum and his dodging the thread instead of answering what was put out showing such. Funny you have time to make 24 posts in other threads before the “Oopps I’ve got to go to the Gym, I’ll try to come back later and stop being obv-scum”

--

Pappum’s wagon hop on pizza at it scummy.

@Pappums
– so please establish your stance for me here – you think both Pizza and I are scum together and Pizza dropped an RVS vote on me and left it there with no content as I quickly gathered a wagon to L-1. He then unvoted only after the wagon had distintigrated. Is this a proper summary of your thoughts?

Pappums wrote:
MoI has defended well
, but I still think he is likely scum at this point.
I dont like how he has refused to answer points made against him
, as well as his refusal to claim when people expressed intent to hammer. Not claiming isnt necessarily scummy, but it is terribly antitown, and MoI is one of the more protown players on this site.


1. Note the bolded self-contradiction. He’s saying I defended well yet I’m simultaneously not answering points against me? Lulz, no.
2. Pappums please quicklink to any ‘point’ against me that I have not addressed.
3. So you are admitting that half the reason you think I am scum is not scum driven behavior (not claiming) but simply ‘Anti-Town’?

UNVOTE: Benmage
VOTE: Pappums

Oh if I only was a Doublevoter so I could keep my votes on all the obv-scum at once.

Pappums wrote: I doubt that MoI and Yates are on the same team. I think if one flips town, the other will flip scum. Benmage, on the other hand, I am confident is town. Fate and PV are lesser townreads. Korlash and V2V are entirely null atm.


Oh look, lining up lynches based on Town flips. But let’s examine this more closely –

Earlier in this very post he suggested that I was still scum. By this logic if he truly believed that Yates should be in his solid Town reads. But no … he’s keeping Yates positioned as “mislynch fodder”.

Yates is now off my scum-list as pappums is scum making sure to position himself to push on Town when another Town flips.

@Korlash
– get on Pappums … deserves instant rope!
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Post Post #290 (isolation #55) » Tue May 01, 2012 5:22 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

knox wrote:So sorry been my computer died a little but all fixed now, will be back with a post after catching up tomorrow.


For the record I see this excuse (re technical issues like dead computer or internet outage) much every game I play in. Either MS causes complete undo stress on computers, the players on the site or universally unlucky, or it is being used by scum as a means of explaining disappearances.

I'm starting to keep track of it from this point on in a QT for my personal edification.
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Post Post #321 (isolation #56) » Wed May 02, 2012 4:07 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

The following post is a direct exchange with Benmage. If you are one of those people offended by Wall posts don’t read it …

You have been warned.

--

Benmage wrote: TL/DR Its very frustrating debating with MoI because it de-evolves into this walls vs walls.

Its why I made a nice clear list as to why MoI is scum. And those points are still valid.

This wall v wall of fact proving and e-peen stroking is a complete drain. MoI thrives for this shit. He talks big, posturing, says a lot of untrue negative shit my way, like I'm 'inconsistent', and 'illogical', or 'purposely avoiding' or 'making things up' but its all bullshit. Then I drain myself fixing his errors, and he nitpicking-ly moves on and attacks the next snidbit.

He's scum, and should've been hammered on pg 6.


Of course I make pushing my mislynch difficult. Why shouldn’t I? There is a reason I have my Title – I’m such a pain in the ass to deal with when I am Town that scum absolutely kill me at first opportunity.

Your pointless rhetoric about me being scum who should have been hammered is just that – pointeless rhetoric. Let me respond in kind

Benmage is obv-scum who is frustrated he couldn’t push through my mislynch and thus is making assertions without backing them up.


Benmage wrote: Shit this aint America. Everyones guilty until proven innocent.


Oh, but me scum-hunting you is under-mining? Lulz.

Benmage wrote: -Zangtell, the short version is scum will call an argument Town v Town. MoI's used this accusation before as scum. That was my point.


More faulty meta. I’ve also used it as Town. Here’s some links so you can stop pretending it is only something I use as scum …

Small:TownStardust Mafia – the game where I was Town and the origination of the tell.

Dr. Who Mafia – I make the observation in post 55. I was Town.

Secret Society Mafia- Use it in post 139 and post 177. I was Town.

Benmage wrote:ZOMG EVERYTHING ISNT 100% CONSISTENT. Cause good players never make mistakes, or forget past things....Zzzzzzz Bullshit. You're good (which is a really arbitrary word anyways, but I digress) yes. Infallible....zzzz
Moving on …


This is rhetoric handwaving. Where did I say “Benmage isn’t 100% consistent”? Please quote it because this is just you trying to put words into my mouth as a means to undermine the very valid point that you are blatantly inconsistent when it comes to the application of what you consider scum-tells.

Benmage wrote: You give last reads before the hammer. Not after....

-His alluding to being able to delay, is likely some scum lie.


See this is incorrect. You give last reads only when someone has said “I’m going to hammer you regardless of your claim”. No-one said anything close to that. Peregrine didn’t even commit to actually saying he would vote me. He said he was ‘considering’ it. You are trying to perpetuate the incorrect stance that "The second someone gets to L-1 they claim" somehow means not immediately claiming at L-1 is a scum-tell. It's not.

The second part is just rhetoric crap. You once again make a broad, sweeping statement without backing it up.

Now let’s discuss your Cognitive Dissonance regarding meta –

Benmage wrote: SO why be difficult. MoI was scum doing the same action in AFFC.


You keep bringing up this point (that I opened AFFC with a “Last to Confirm” RVS vote) as if two instances of something is meta evidence I am scum. Evidence that I provide you with another example of BTW. What was my scum motivation for doing that (bringing you Tit for Tat) when you clearly are too lazy to actually do the legwork yourself.

Yet when presented with similar strong meta evidence that shows I only refuse to claim as Town you dismiss it . Your exact words were thus –

I just illustrated that scum refuse to claim. That's always my point. You trying to manipulate your own Meta does nothing for me.


It’s at best Confirmation Bias – you are automatically dismissing my evidence because in this case “I’m manipulating my Meta”.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say “He doesn’t have the ability to enter the game by manipulating his meta as scum” and then turn around and say “Ok, you are totally manipulating your meta” if you are honestly scum-hunting.

Benmage wrote:Did you not comprehend the context of my statement. Of course the idea of self-voting would be ludicrious. You try to dismiss my point in post 152 with this post: post 158. You're using your meta to suggest that AS SCUM you would be acting like XXX. (XXX being creating fakeclaims like the cop claim in AFFC) You also use your previous meta to further defend your position by saying you refuse to claim in Oobas game, and Seinfelds game.
(LIKE I remember every facet of OObasa game.
(Which doesn't even matter here))


1. If self-voting would be ludicrous why include it other than as undermining garbage which you claim is a scummy move?
2. See now you begin backing away from your “MoI is scum for opening like he did as scum in AFFC” argument. You opened the door to “MoI is scum via meta”. You don’t get to then dismiss my using meta as defense.
3. The bolded I will be getting to in a bit later but it bears noting here.

On the subject of whether Benmage ‘knows’ my scum-game very well as stated

Ben you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Your arguments whipsaw back and forth between “Yes, I know MoIscum and I can identify his scum-game” to “No games are the same”. Examples include the above bolded and –

Benmage wrote: I was mocking you suggesting your town behavior must be this, and your scum behavior must be that. To think that ones play is always identical is ludicrious.


Well of course play isn’t always identical. That’s an empty point. You are suggesting that you can easily identify my scum games.

Benmage wrote: Its evidence of YOUR scum behavior.
1. I've never really known you to fluff
2. As I said before the rapidness of it created a false negative illusion regarding myself.


1. So you know my scum-game well but have never known me to fluff? That’s actually an argument against your premise that me fluffing is scum-driven.
2. Bullshit. You’ve completely dodged the point that on Monday you made 24 game posts all over site but couldn’t manage to make a post here.

Benmage wrote: Refuses..... ZZZZ, can anyone link me refusing to do this for MoI. PUHLEASE. (hint hint, I never did, just more dung from MoI to paint me negatively)

But MoI, you are quite right. It wasn’t Supernatural Mafia. It was a Storm of Swords:


I don’t have to link you to it. You brought up Supernatural and I said that you had no valid point. Your response was “Are you denying my Supernatural reference?”

Of course I was denying it. It never happened a fact you now actually admit was a ‘mis-remembering”. That’s why this line of pursuit by you is so scummy. You make a reference to a game as evidence that supports your stance that I am scummy yet don’t actually reference it. I call you on it. How is that not a Town reaction?

The constant use of ZZZ as if my points are so boring is just ‘Appealing to Repitition”. No Town motive for it. It’s just mudslinging on your part.

Benmage wrote:-You're misunderstanding my point. My point is you undermined me as scum, and see it as a scumtactic, and have stated thusly when being town.
My point was you give credence to the POINT that undermining is a scum tactic. Although I referenced it incorrectly. My memory aint perfect. The point is valid nonetheless.
You were town in aSoS game, and as town You find it valid. Thats my point.


And here’s the bomb-shell that tells me you aren’t acutally scum-hunting –

I WAS NOT TOWN IN ASOS.
That’s right … I was scum. Here’s a link for everyone to see for themselves. Looking at those dead and gone we find the following –

I flipped Brynden Tully, Stark Aligned Tracker. Starks were the scum. Note the Stark Godfather.

So you are actually proving my point – as Scum I used that bullshit argument against Grey because it’s a crappy argument that sounds good on paper but isn’t valid in the least.

Yet here you are scummily trying to pass it off as evidence of my ‘scum behavior’ here when in fact my support of the ‘Undermining argument’ came from when I was scum.

Benmage wrote: Its a shitty loaded question. One failed read doesn't mean shit. Trying to post date it from SAIII is idiotic. AND your use of SAIII is fucking shit, BECAUSE prior to Fate flipping, I reverted my read and found him town. BASED ON PLAY. My initial scum read that game came from a preconceived pregame motive I thought Fate would have. BUT HIS PLAY REVERTED THAT READ PRIOR TO HIS FLIP. So thanks a fucking million for helping prove my awesomeness.

And why doesn't Town Ben properly identify Scum Fate simply have the reverse effect?


It’s not a scummy loaded question. You again have failed to deliver a single case of Town Benmage properly reading Fate Town. In fact this ‘outrage’ is simply an effort to disguise that you have yet to provide any games at all to support your stance that you have gotten very good at reading Fate.

As for Stars Aligned 3 – you are trying to say you reverted your read to Town on him there. But that was after a long protracted period where you vitrolically called him scum. Here is the link to the game ISOs of Benmage and Fate for those interested. Clearly your well refined ‘I can read Fate well’ skills were not developed by the this game as he was Town and you stalked him N0 to murder him N1 basically on a grudge.

This is also why I think the way you and Fate here have solid Town reads on each other is suspect. Hell in the Mini Theme sign-ups Fate himself said you two had an unfinished rivalry to deal with.

Ben – please link me to the post where you called Fate Town in Stars Aligned III. I don’t see it in your ISO.

In summary feel free to provide Town Benmage games where he properly reads Scum-Fate also. Since your premise is that you can read Fate easily as Town here I asked for other instances of you doing that.

Yes – once again I’m asking you to show your support for your stance.

Benmage wrote:I'm not gonna say I'm perfect at reading Fate. Pretty sure I even stated I'm still going to monitor him, but that I was getting strong town vibes, and have been of late on point for identifying his alignment. You somehow swing this into requiring me to list games post SAIII of me properly doing this....yeeeeeesh.


Back-tracking much? When you make statements about how good you are at reading Fate I’m asking you to support it with games that demonstrate thus. It’s called scum-hunting Benmage – I think you are scum and am trying to get a read on your possible partners (including Fate) by your posts in the thread.

Benmage wrote: I agree. I don't think the "slip" is a slip. But are you really accusing them of trying to manufacture the slip? And leave out such obvious details? Details yourself understood in 5 seconds? Come on.


So what exactly was Yates’s motivation for leaving out obvious details and continuing to run with it after said details were clearly pointed out to him?

Benmage wrote:I did attack MoI for his weak attacks on V2V, did I not?


Not that your ISO reveals. Here is the closest things you have to comment on my early push on V2V for his reaction to being called scum and OMGUSing me -

Benmage at 50 wrote: There was some 20 posts before his, but it looked like people were already beginning discussion and moving from the rvs. (Obviously namely between you and Vijay)]


This isn’t criticism – you are stating that actual discussion was happening between Vijay and myself.

Benmage at 59 wrote: The question is loaded because the obvious answer is that was the sole example. Otherwise he would've listed the additional info to support his claim. Der 1. Moreover if you think about it logically. How many games does he/one play. How many times are any two people in the same game (****Korlash you're from 07, and I'm from 08... How many games have we been in together?)...... Then how many games that they're both in will Vijay also be scum in. Then in how many games that they're together in and Vijay is scum will Vijay react the same way....... Come fucking off it. I literally shook my head is dismay and smirked when I saw you ask him for additional sources.

the answer "yes 5 billion examples" never would've occurred, dont be dumb with me. Him reinforcing it with further sources WOULDNT have given you any upperhand, duh...that strengthens his point. But again, Basic logicsuggested this never was going to be the case.

Him answering, obviously no diminishes the strength of his point..... even if only subtly.

Again. It's as a foregone conclusion. Why would he, calling out Vijay as scum, withhold further damning information on him. And again, mathematically seeing repeat meta like this between two players is idiotically farfetched.

But lets breakdown basic meta. Scum-tell omgus, overreacting and attacking the one who attacks you. Check on the basic level. Without the past precedents a general understanding would recognize MoI's position as valid.

-You yield MoI's reasoning for voting for his beliefs is valid. But what do you think?


Are you going to sell that as criticism of my vote on Vijay that I called real?

In fact your ‘case’ at says nothing at all about my calling calling him out for his reactions and OMGUS vote in any way that indicates you thought it was scummy.

Benmage wrote:Is this really THAT different than you're there's scum in X/Y and W/Z..................................
[/quote]

Yes it is absolutely different. Are you seriously asking this questions?

Pappums says “Yates and MoI can’t be on the same team, if one flips Town the other MUST be scum”. It’s a false dichotomy. Why can’t we both be Town other than his just stating “MoI is scum”?

I on the other hand am saying that my reads indicate that I think there is scum to be found in the following groups of players. Not how I am further actually scum-hunting to determine alignment. Pappums is just laying down a statement as fact.
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Post Post #323 (isolation #57) » Wed May 02, 2012 4:32 am

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Shotgun wrote:He was radiating scum reactions from our votes.
Perhaps you guys would see him as scum when he reacts further.


Well certainly Town, especially VI Town, has never reacted bad to votes before. :roll:

--

Korlash wrote: If it means anything I am disappointed he wasn't lynched. Simply because the situation we were in called for it. And while I can certainly see your case (honestly, I'm still iffy on MOI myself and your rebuttal for your points certainly helped) I currently see a better one on Rat and Pere along with a likely mislynch wagon on Pizza taking form.


Why didn’t you hammer me then if you are ‘disappointed’ I wasn’t lynched? You had plenty of chance to do so.

--

Pappums wrote:Take a look at the last couple vote counts. MoI was put at L-1 and several people requested he claim, and there was intent to hammer. Nothing happened. Then he dropped to like 2-3 people voting him. There is no way in hell MoI is getting lynched today. On the other hand, drmyshotgun pointed out numerous points regarding pizza, and I figured since MoI isnt going to get lynched, my vote would be better served on a wagon that had momentum.


And it’s the second example of you jumping on a wagon with the sole-excuse of “I like Player X’s case” as your reasoning. You did it first with Benmage’s case when you jumped on my wagon. That’s scummy self-protection.

Pappums wrote:Regarding your @ pappums: Dont put words in my mouth and misrep me. I never said there were associative tells between you two. Neither of you have flipped yet, so I am not trying to make connections between you.


Way to dodge the point – you seem to try to avoid having scum-reads that make sense under the guise of “No-one has flipped”. You have called both Pizza and I scum. Do you think we make sense as scum together? If not which of us is more likely scum?

Pappums wrote:1. You have defended well, there is no doubt about it. You have had an answer for pretty much everything that has been put to you, and I would not expect anything less from a player of your caliber. The point I made about not addressing everything is that you havent commented on the point I made in #2:
2. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4004416 You didnt say anything about the game in question, you just brushed it off with your own single game point and called my post fluff.


What should I have commented on about that game? Here are your poinst –

1. That I was scum in a game? Ok.
2. That I argued with ReaperCharlie? How is this indicative of scum behavior? The point of Mafia is to find scum and argue to get them lynched. You carefully yourself dodged where I attacked your slot in the same fashion I attacked ReaperCharlie (calling each of you scum and trying to get you lynched) and I was Town. Why am I scummy for not acknowledging a point when you did the exact same thing?

Pappums wrote: 3. LOL keep misrepping me MoI, you just dig your grave deeper and deeper. I was pointing out that not claiming is antitown and you are not an antitown player, I never said I voted you because of it. If you somehow are town, you are suffering from some serious confirmation bias.


1. ‘Appeal to Fear’ noted. Town who thinks they are talking to scum don’t say things like “You are digging your grave” in a manner that suggests I should stop scum-hunting you.
2. Please list the full reasons why you voted me in your own words. Don’t direct me to a post by someone else.

Pappums wrote:Oh wow, the old "lining up lynches" rhetoric.


Lining up lynches isn’t rhetoric. It’s exactly what you are doing and Town has no reason to do so. You've given no reason why Yates is the only person likely scum on my wagon. You just dropped down a "Hey, if either of these players flips Town the other must be scum".
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Post Post #327 (isolation #58) » Wed May 02, 2012 5:43 am

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Korlash wrote:To put it bluntly, I am disappointed in retrospect, not "I was disappointed at the time". I didn't think you were scum enough to deserve the lynch so hammering you was never an option. Looking back at it, I do see merit in you having been lynched, thus feel disappointment in it not happening. But that feeling equates to me ordering a large cheese pizza and then wishing I had ordered Black Olives on it while eating. I'm disappointed sure, but my life is hardly ruined.

Savy?


No. What merit do you see in retrospect to me being lynched?
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Post Post #329 (isolation #59) » Wed May 02, 2012 5:47 am

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Benmage wrote:Well I need a new dunce cap for that twice failed reference.

Anyways ill do some sort of response, later.

And as far as my vote. Its on scum. There's likely two otherscum it could go on...but I need to go iso everyone not you or MoI.


Oh, so you not once but twice called me scum and used completely wrong references to do so. Very Pro-Town ... :roll:

And keep 'Appealing to Repetition' that's also scummy.
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Post Post #341 (isolation #60) » Wed May 02, 2012 6:42 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:protown..... so being scum and making mistakes equate to he samething..... that's news to me.


Well welcome to the Burden of Proficiency Ben – I don’t think you are bad enough a player to make those sort of clearly incorrect mistakes as Town.

But as scum looking to get my mislynch? That I could buy.

Benmage wrote:^oh, calling scum, scum.... welcome to being attacked by a Mafia member


I fixed that for you.

Benmage wrote: Also, I mentioned MoI does this fully engrossed thing. He did to glork in scummiest winvitational. Glork called him out, and rightfully so for giving glork and easy veil to hide behind. He's doing the same to me. If he genuinely thought me scum he'd be conscise. He'd ask others their opinions, and why they didn't see me as scum.


Bad on two fronts.

1. You seem to suggest I don’t post copiously and attack my scum reads as Town in the same manner which is clearly incorrect.
2. I’m certainly addressing more players than you. You trying to frame it as if I’m not is scummy.

--

Korlash wrote:For starters the guy I'm iffy on would be dead making the game easier to read for me, I would have your wagon to look at with your flip and given all the circumstance surrounding it I do kinda wish I had that, It would reduce the number of 'wall' posts in the game considerably which not only makes it easier for everyone it removes some of the 'omg I can't read the game blah blah blah' people can and are posting at the moment.

I can keep going but it all gets kinda boring from here. I respect Ben as a player and want to use him as an asset but he'll most likely keep his vote on you like forever so with you dead that frees him up to move his vote. (and attention) if he's town I want that to make my life easier and if he's scum I want that so I can fucking nail him. [that may... have came out wrong...


1. If you were iffy on me you should have hammered me. No reason not to unless you were worried that you strong shift from taking on my attackers to hammering me with no prior warning would earn you a bullet in the skull.
2. I’ll keep in mind to not play with you again if you are one of those whiners regarding wall posting. Mafia is a game of written communication.
3. No please go on. I’ve seen not one Pro-Town reason listed. Your ‘I like Benmage and want to use him as an asset’ is noted. Actually I think I need to go read Mafia Invictus to see how you treated Scum-Benmage there as Town.

--

Peregrine wrote: 1. If I hammered you, and Jason posted you as dead before you got back to the thread, you would not be able to post anymore. Thus, you would be unable to post what I was asking for. If you feel this statement is incorrect (it's a hypothetical, so it may be tricky), then you will have to explain, because nothing I read in the thread would indicate to me that you would not die.


Yes you are incorrect and the reason why has been posted directly in thread by multiple players. That’s all I’ll say on the issue.

Peregrine wrote:2. Sure. Generally, when I play with you, you scumhunt across the board. You annoy everybody and nitpick all sorts of shit. But, it gives you a town vibe.
This time, that town vibe was missing. And apparently not just with me, but 6 other players also felt that way, because you were at L-1 way fast. And, your resulting posts from it showed way more agitation and abrasiveness that it seemed outside your normal posting parameters (ie flailing). That was another warning sign to me.
And, you, as town, have absolutely no problem analyzing votes and wagons. So, my request to you to do so on your own wagon, instead of being met with an actual response, was resisted. The third warning that doesn't align with town-MoI.


Ok your reasons are –

1. Missing a Town vibe. A completely un-contestable statement that I can’t do anything about.
2. Other people wagonning me – well this actually should be a big warning sign to you that my wagon was terrible. I’ve only been lynched as Town on Day 1. In fact I don’t remember the last time I was lynched as scum other than when I directly outed myself (for example American Gods Mafia where I quickhammered twice and claimed scum directly in thread the next day). So what you call a warning sign is actually pretty compelling evidence that my wagon was scum-driven.
3. Please link me to a game where I’ve done wagon analysis BEFORE any flips have happened.

Peregrine wrote:3. That you said "I was scum there also." I addressed this here.


And your stance has been blown up given you ignored the context – Ben was asking me for games where I opened like I did in Feast (where I was scum) and the only one I found (aside from here where I am Town) was Tit for Tat where I was also scum.

Are you sticking to your stance that is scummy?
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Post Post #345 (isolation #61) » Wed May 02, 2012 7:34 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Korlash wrote:1. I'm not up for hammering people I'm 'iffy' on, if you disagree with that... well I try not to judge other people's wrong opinions. And if you know me at all you know I don't give a shit how I look for doing things because I can talk my way out of anything. If I had wanted to switch my vote to you, you know I could have done it.


I actually don’t know you that well Korlash. Given this is,what, our second full game together? That said – it’s much easier to talk your way out of a lynch than a bullet between the eyes Especially when I am holding the gun.

Korlash wrote:2. Dude I'm part of the wall posters, I'm here to play and I know this game takes reading skills. I have no problem with walls, BUT I don't like how many people are skirting by 'whining' about them. Town are being lazy thus hurting my chances of winning and scum are given a free ride making me have to work harder. I may be a selfish asshole, but I have no problem with walls.


Well this is where we disgress. Because it would never occur to me to read someone saying “I don’t like Walls” and then go “Hmmm … maybe I should have hammered that iffy player who posts Walls just to make the game simpler for the whiners”. To each their own, I guess.

Korlash wrote:3. Pro-town reason listed for what? I said I was disappointed in something, why does my alignment have to factor into it? And I hold Ben to the same standards I hold you, if you're town you're going to contribute something tangible, and if you're scum you'll eventually out yourself. You may have to remind me about this Invictus game because I don't seem to remember it. Was it recent?

I will note the change here. I mentioned I had partial regrets with your lynch falling through and you suddenly jump down my throat. Their point about you calling anyone who attacks you scum while ignoring those who seem to be on your side seems to have been proven.


Korlash feel free to conclude whatever you want. I actually haven’t called everyone who attacks me scum but I’m not wasting time going back and forth about that. Peregrine is correct – I hate buddying and it isn’t in my nature to just let someone go by all day without poking and prodding at them even if I think they are Town. Despite what others may claim is my opinion I know I’m far from a perfect scum-hunter.

As to Invictus here’s the link – it’s been awhile. But when I go back to that game I realized you were scum with Benmage so that possible line of meta is out the window. BTW – you were playing as Ban there.

--

Peregrine wrote: 1. You're not expected to. I have to read your posts and decide if you are scum or town. I can't rely solely on vibes.
2. Yet you were reluctant to analyze it. That's what I don't get. You are saying it's scum driven, so of the seven voting you and the rest, my question was who was scum and why. I was asking for an elaboration of your answer here.
3. I wasn't asking for analysis based on other peoples alignments. I was asking for analysis based on their reason for voting you or not voting you, or any other reason you would have wanted to mention.


1. Well listing it as a reason you suspect me as scum means I’m going to address it. I don’t roll over and say “Oh, it’s gut that’s perfect ok with me”.
2. Again – doing it on your time-table when you actually hadn’t committed to making it a factual event by hammering wasn’t very high on my priority list. I’d rather spend my time scum-hunting each player’s full behavior not just wagon placement.
3. This still doesn’t answer the question – you indicating that you find it unusual that I haven’t done a wagon analysis when there are no flips. I don’t do that so my reason for wanting links is to examine why you think I would.
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Post Post #353 (isolation #62) » Wed May 02, 2012 7:57 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Hey Yates you have some open items at . Please get to them.
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Post Post #354 (isolation #63) » Wed May 02, 2012 7:59 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

PeregrineV wrote:@MoI- It was Friday afternoon. According to MoI timetable, had I hammered as I indicated, you would not have been able to give reads, unless Jason took the weekend off.

Ah, but there would have been a flip. Your own. Day 2 analysis of a town flip is very standard. You're unwillingness to do so on your own wagon BEFORE you hypothetically "flip town" earns you major scumpoints. And real ones, not the vibe-y kind.


You are making assumptions / drawing conclusions about this that are not true. Your lack of correct conclusions from that are not my problem.

Explain why I earn "major scum-points" for not doing entertaining your hypothetical crap when you wouldn't even commit to actually saying "I'll hammer".

Thanks.
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Post Post #360 (isolation #64) » Wed May 02, 2012 8:15 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Peregrine
– Then why can’t you investigate the wagon independently of my input? I’m rather wondering why you need my opinion to draw your own independent conclusions? Because you liking or not liking my response is in a vacuum without you knowing my alignment. You can still make your own analysis based on both MoI-Town and MoI-scum without having to go through the hoops that you laid out.

--

pappums wrote:\Wiktionary's definition for doubt: "To lack confidence in; to disbelieve, question, or suspect."
Wiktionary's definition(s) for think: "to ponder, to go over in one's head, To communicate to oneself in one's mind, to try to find a solution to a problem, to conceive of something or someone, To be of the opinion (that), to guess, to reckon, To consider, judge, regard, or look upon (something) as."

Yeah, I really said that one is definately town and the other is defiantely scum, didnt I?


Oh so you would like to play the semantics game? Using the fact that you peppered your post with ‘fence-sitting’ words doesn’t take away at all from my point – you are lining up attacks based on flips that haven’t happened yet. But you also post stuff like the following –

Once again, I will not answer whether or not you "make sense together" because there has been no flip, but my scumreads on both of you are pretty much equally strong.


So why are you willing to commit to one set of conditional reads before flips (that Yates and I are not of the same alignment) but not others (that Pizza and I fit well as partners)?

Pappums wrote:Quote 1: I liked shotgun's reasoning AND pizza's reaction was terrible and scummy.


Oh why was Pizza’s reaction scummy and not what you would expect from a VI again?

And you are happy to admit that you voted based on someone else’s case twice? Thanks for that.

Pappums wrote:Quote 3: What I was pointing out was that you heckled RC and stirred up shit to intentionally piss him off to make him an easy target (which you did very effectively) and you were doing something very similar with Fate and Benmage. In TV Mafia, you were not trying to get a rise out of me like you did with RC and with Fate and Benmage in this game.


Your logic on this falls completely apart considering RC was never lynched and it was only when you came in that the slot got real heat.

Futhermore are you suggesting that Benmage and Fate are ‘easy targets’ based on my interactions with them?

Pappums wrote: Quote 4: I voted you because you are scum.


EVERYONE SHOULD EXAMINE THIS RESPONSE CLOSELY.


I asked Papums to summarize why he voted for me in his own words. This is his response.

Then vote him. Thanks!

Pappums wrote: Quote 5: Yes it is rhetoric, and I never said Yates is the only person who could be scum on your wagon.


And yet you haven’t mentioned anyone other than Yates. Lack of other content on your part correlates with a conclusion that you don’t think anyone else on my wagon was scum for a reasonable reader.

pappums wrote:BTW I am done with the walls and quote strip back and forth. I am not going to partake in miring this game in unreadable monster wall posts. If you have something you want me to respond to, do so in a succinct question sans wall plox.


Bullshit excuse. Mafia is a game of reading. Don’t want to read? Find a different game.
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Post Post #383 (isolation #65) » Thu May 03, 2012 5:00 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate continues to coast with his vote parked on a VI and play very low-key.

Welcome Zeek. We meet again …

--

Mini wrote: Don't think I'm done with vijay yet. What is everyone's opinion on him?


I don’t have him as a scum read. He took my initial salvo early and while he did vote for me he was the first one off my wagon which is generally a plus IMO (with a small caveat).

I wouldn’t wagon him today.

--

Peregrine wrote: I could do this, and single handedly solve the mystery of "whose the scum" if only I have enough hours in a day. Since I don't, and the living players would do there own version of who-was-on-the-wagon day2, I asked you, the potentially dead player, to do so before you died.

Are you really not understanding what I asked for or why I did?


Yes I understand why you are saying it. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with your reasons. Everyone else's version of the wagon is from a different perspective than your own.

My question to you is – why is your time more valuable than mine? If you don’t have the hours in the day to play in a manner that serves your wincon you can’t expect people to do it for you.

--

Pappums wrote:Damn, you are obsessed with pushing your horseshit "lining up lynches" point arent you? I didnt commit to jack shit. Why do you need me to say that pizza and you "fit well as partners" exactly? You two have not interacted enough to say something like that even if I wasnt going to wait for a flip before coming to a conclusion on whichever of you were not the one who got lynched.


You’ve completely avoided my questions – why if your stance is would you be entertaining other relational reads without flips. You could certainly say “Pizza doesn’t make any sense as MoI’s possible partner” based on what went on in thread (as I have discussed already).

Pappums wrote:I explained why his reaction was scummy and I never said he was a VI. If someone was a VI, that does not mean you should ignore it when they do scummy things.


Where did I ever say that VI’s can’t be scum or we should ignore their play?

Pappums wrote:ROFLMAO holy shit what a fucking god-awful LIE that was. RC was taking a TON OF SHIT because you were taking jabs at him and he replaced out BECAUSE HE COULDNT TAKE IT ANYMORE and because HE HAD A LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO LYNCH HIM LARGELY BASED ON HIS INTERACTONS WITH YOU. I was lynched almost immediately even though I did some decent scumhunting BASED OFF OF RC'S BEHAVIOR. TO SAY OTHERWISE IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE.


Here’s the link for those who want to observe for themselves.

For the record – the only vote you got right out of the gate after you replaced in was Empking’s. In fact it was Katsuki who got the first early wagon. It was only after you started posting that heat came your way. You made your own grave there.

Pappums wrote: I never said Fate and Benmage were easy targets, learn to read. I said you were trying to stir shit up between them LIKE YOU DID WITH RC.


1. Asking them about their reads / interactions with each other isn’t ‘stirring things up’. It’s scum-hunting. Should I scream mis-rep like you now?
2. How is my direct attack on ReaperCharlie in that game in any way similar to my play here? You are trying to say I am ‘stirring things up’ like I did there yet in that game I went head to head calling him scum. It’s not analogues at all and your attempts to make it so are scummy.

--

Yates wrote:My counterargument to VJ was that a scum slip is as likely, if not MORE likely, than "scum-Yates" trying to fabricate a bs "slip" in order to get someone lynched.


Well I don’t know how you are quantifying this other than based on knowing your own role PM but meh.

Yates wrote: The point, I am restating, is that I think you screwed up by pointing to two games where you acted a certain way and in both instances ended up being scum.


And my counter-point is that it makes no sense for me, as scum, to actively call that other game to anyone’s attention. Ben clearly wasn’t going to go looking for it. Why would I, as scum, not tell him to do it himself as opposed to doing all the legwork?

Yates wrote:A. How many games do YOU think it takes to make that evidence stronger? 4? 5? If you were scum in 1 out of 3, I wouldn't pay it any attention. The fact that you are 2 for 2? Yeah. That's at LEAST a trend.


More than 2, clearly. If you want to argue that that a Trend is meaningful to alignment you can. I know it isn’t. The whole premise is that I am ‘uncomfortable opening the game’ which really doesn’t speak to reality given my strong success as Mafia in games and the fact that I’ve never been lynched as Scum early in the game.

Yates wrote: A. My argument was that it wasn't scummy for knox not to put you at L-1 as you seemed to imply. Her stated reason "wanting to extend the day" made sense at the time for the reasons I have already stated [low content, low activity from numerous slots, etc]. The fact that you were unmoving on this point raised the hairs on the back of my neck. If you are going to make a statement like that, you need to know someone may call your bluff. I called it. It's as simple as that. If you get lynched and flip scum, knox's stated reason for not wanting to put you at L-1 would need to be reexamined as AT THAT POINT it would begin to look fishy. I've already stated all of this but there it is again.


Well you point is pretty bad then. Town has no reason to worry about putting someone they think is scum at L-1 period. The rest of your post here pre-supposes that I flip scum. You aren’t bothering to look from the standpoint of Town making the statement I did.
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Post Post #388 (isolation #66) » Thu May 03, 2012 6:04 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yates wrote:This much is true. When I start pushing cases on people I think are scummy I look at their posts as if they are scum. I also understand your counter-point about self-meta. So I guess I will just ask you outright; why *did* you post two games that you opened this way knowing you flipped scum in both? You *had* to have known someone would call you out on that.


I did so because I have nothing to hide. Simple as that. There is no Pro-Town reason to not show links to things if you are Town even if they don’t favor you. This is one of the reasons I am so suspect of Benmage – he’s pushed multiple ‘reference’ posts attacking me for things and failed each time to show links. So far when I have called him on it he’s tried to sideline the issue (saying things like “I never refused to show links”) and revising his posts (Oops it wasn’t Supernatural it was A Storm of Swords. Oops nevermind you were not Town there, don’t I look foolish). And when I show him he’s not correct he doesn’t change his read – he still clining to the undermining point even when I pointed out his support was based on incorrect facts.

Yates when you get a chance please read pappums and Benmage and give me your thoughts.

Also one thing I think you missed in your recap to me – why did you make the assertion that Vijay’s suspicion of you was driven by OMGUS for an off-handed post you made early in the game?
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Post Post #389 (isolation #67) » Thu May 03, 2012 6:07 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

PeregrineV wrote:And I will circle back to the crux of my question. Why refuse the town what could potentially be your "last thoughts"?


And I'll repeat, ONCE AGAIN, my response to this - I was not worried at all about having time to post my final thoughts even if you hammered. Period. Last time I address this.

Also - why, if you were asking for my 'last thoughts' did you not express an intent to hammer. That's pretty much site standard for when people claim and give last thoughts here on MS. The closest you got was giving a wishy-washy "I'm debating it" comment.
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Post Post #391 (isolation #68) » Thu May 03, 2012 7:13 am

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PeregrineV wrote:I did. I even included myself on the wagon to analyze.


No, you said "Hey, pretend this happens". That's not saying "I intend to hammer". If that was what you were going for I suggest in the future you be a bit more direct and clear.
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Post Post #395 (isolation #69) » Thu May 03, 2012 7:58 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Pizza - why exactly aren't you voting your scum suspects?
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Post Post #398 (isolation #70) » Thu May 03, 2012 8:53 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yates wrote:I'll need to do a lot of rereading but I am willing accommodate this request if you do the same. And please include VJ and Kolash as well.


I'll agree to ISO VJ and Korlash for you if that is what you are asking.
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Post Post #400 (isolation #71) » Thu May 03, 2012 8:56 am

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Yates wrote:I'm just asking for YOUR reads on these guys as quid pro quo.


That's what I thought but the phrasing confused me just enough to want to confirm directly.
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Post Post #422 (isolation #72) » Fri May 04, 2012 7:55 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MOD – I’ll be LA from today at 4:30pm EDT until Monday AM for my usual weekend family duties.


@Yates
– Your ISOs might have to come this weekend or Monday. Let me see how the rest of my commitments go today before LA.

--

Yates wrote: Also, speaking of lining up lynches...


Let me ask you – do you see a function difference between the following scenarios as far as scumminess of ‘lining up lynches’?

A. If player X flips Town player Y should be lynched as they are likely not partners and vice-versa.
B. I think Player X is scummy but Player Y is scummier so let’s lynch Player Y first and Player X the next day.

--

Korlash wrote:Presenting a case does not mean you HAVE to vote them or suggest they be lynched, nor does it even imply you HAVE to think they are scum. It is often used in that way, but it does not have to be. It is merely a gathering of points against a specific player, usually aimed at suspicious activity.


Um, whut? Are you saying that actually building as case (as Town is the underlying premise here) doesn’t have to be in furtherance of finding scum? Aside from some really obtuse gambitting what purpose would you suggest as a viable and useful reason for building a case on someone you DON’T think is scum?

--

Fate wrote: MoI writing him off as a VI? I that linked MoI as Pizza's scumbuddy, but MoI is known for having shit reads and taking opposite stances on people's alignment from me based on his asshat princible(tm).


Let’s analyze this statement –

1. Fate are you suggesting Pizza ISN’T a VI? I’d like you to actually address that then I will address your “MoI is just shitty and taking opposite stances as a douche”.
2. Everyone please note – this statement clearly comes from the standpoint that Fate assumes I am Town. Scum don’t have ‘shitty reads’ … they push mislynches.
3. I’ll be quite curious at Benmage’s thougths on what is clearly inflammatory language that he states is a scum-motivated play.
4. So earlier I was being a jackass and demotivated you yet you feel free to do the same? If being a douche isn’t Pro-Town (your earlier inference from your posts) why would Town Fate do it now?

and both point out properly how Fate’s Multiball comment was incorrect.

Fate at 416 wrote: If I had other scumreads, I'd tell you about it. I just have a bunch of null and potential scum, and then townreads. And I'm not going to broadcast how town someone is in every post


Fate at 421 wrote:Librarian is town, Jester was already town

All right, lookin forward to some sanity in this thread


Let’s see if anyone else sees what I see here in this Thor-style summary.

Fate – I have no other scum reads. I have Null and potential scum (um, what’s the difference between scum reads and potential scum reads from a Town perspective?) and Town and I’m not just giving out Town reads for no reason.

Fate (2 hours later) – Nevermind the person attacking me and that new person who just replaced in are both solid Town.

--

Pappums wrote: 1. Yes, I certainly could have said that about pizza but I didnt. I said what I did about Yates and yourself based on your interactions. You havent really had any interactions with pizza, therefore no hint of a relational tell could be made in this regard. Yes, I said I wouldnt make decisions about scumbuddies until a flip, but that does not mean that I wont speculate in certain situations, especially when your interactions with Yates were as significant as they were.


Yes, but your reaction originally based on this statement rings false. You could have said “I don’t see enough possible connections to make that determination currently”. But your reaction was very much overblown “I don’t take your bait I never make scum-buddy determiniations before flips, OMG you are scum misrepping and stuff”. And then you find reason to do so with Yates (in saying we aren’t buddies).

Pappums wrote:2. You didnt, but you were ignoring pizza's scumminess and brushing it off with a ssimple "he's VI" statement.


As I asked Fate – do you disagree he is a VI? I will fully explain my position after you both answer.

Pappums wrote:3. Yeah, there wasnt an active large wagon on him at the very moment I entered, but he was many peoples' top scumread and were ready to lynch me for his actions (actions that you perpetuated). You are clearly trying to reinterperate the game in question for those in this game in a way that isnt factual.


Actually no, I think you are doing that. I’ve included the link so everyone can conclude for themselves. Suffice it to say that I don’t agree with your premise.

Pappums wrote:4. Yeah, different methods but the way I see it you are still trying to come up with the same results.


So in other words you are forced to concede you were making bad analogies but are going to just stick with your conclusion ‘because’. Quite scummy.

Pappums wrote:LOL you are so full of shit. It is obvious that is what PV meant, dont try to pass it off like you didnt know what he was intending.


Look – more NO U rhetoric. No, I am not full of shit and your constant assertion without being able to show otherwise is scummy.

Pappums wrote:2. Slander? ROFLMAO. If you've been reading the game you would see that MoI has had the same sort of double standards about what is acceptable as Korlash has. Im not going to go dig through all these walls for you.


Just like with Benmage – making blank assertions without providing back-up and further sticking to positions when your original premise is refuted isn’t a Town thought process.
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Post Post #450 (isolation #73) » Mon May 07, 2012 2:26 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Want further proof that Benmage and Fate aren’t likely Town? I give you this …

Activity Log as of this post wrote: MagnaofIllusion 2012-05-04 14:55:03 2 days 18 hours 73
Korlash 2012-05-06 19:37:17 0 days 13 hours 66
Yates 2012-05-04 08:21:25 3 days 0 hours 56
Benmage 2012-05-06 12:59:48 0 days 20 hours 53
Fate 2012-05-06 13:44:56 0 days 19 hours 49


If you have trouble reading that I’ll translate for you … Benmage and Fate are only the 4th and 5th most prolific posters in the thread.

Benmage solidly believes, as Town, that activity correlates with alignment. Proof? Let’s go to A Feast of Crows which he’s been so happy to reference – There he was Town and aside from the Scum Child role (Zoraster who was scum from the start who could not be lynched or Nightkilled) he had double the posts of any other player in thread (at least in what remains of the thread, click the link for himself). In fact late in the game (eaten by Tigers) one of the points he constantly made was that he was Town because Scum never is the most active player in thread.

@Ben please confirm this.


Fate is the most prolific poster on site. He, as Town, loves to spam the thread trying to get his personal scum suspects lynched for his personal bragging rights and e-peen. The fact that he is posting less than 4 players is pretty damning. The fact that I’m one of them is even more so.

--

Vijay wrote: ... I think I'll stay here and wait it out. Remind me what the Pizza case is again?


Basically that he reacts badly to being called scum and is poorly scum-hunting.

Which means he’s either scum or a VI. If you can tell the difference in Pizza let me know how you do so directly.

--

Korlash wrote: I left my statement open to allow for cases to be made on people you think are town. Mafia set-ups come in all shapes and sizes and you can't tell me arguing why you think someone is town couldn't be a major part of some game somewhere for some-reason. (obviously this doesn't outright apply to this game but like I said, I leave room in statements like this to account for any scenario possible.)


I see where you are going here. That said I’ve never seen it listed as a ‘case’ before. Only as defending Town-reads.

--

Benmage wrote:Going to gym, and then dominating Mafia today. BE READY (and I swear to do more than talk about MoI)


Benmage wrote: ^Fail.

Expect it to happen today.


I think you should have just left it at Fail.

--

Pappums wrote: The simple answer is that I cbf to slog through 18 pages of wall posts to find specific examples. If people see this as antitown or scummy then so be it, but this game is wearing on me and I just dont have the energy to go back through all that again.


Well then replace out if you can’t be fucked to actually play the game. I’m 100% serious. This is an excuse that has zero Town positive benefit.

You know who make bullshit statements and refuse to back them up? Scum. So either you are scum (which I believe) or you are basically playing against your wincon as Town.

Pappums wrote:1. Yes, I admit my reaction was probably a little overblown and based in confirmation bias.


Then why have you given so much attention to me going after said reactions that don’t appear Town oriented?

Pappums wrote:2. I dont know whether I would consider pizza VI or not as I cant recall playing any games with him. In this game however, his actions look like active-lurking scum to me.


Well I will say that Pizza is a full on VI to the level that I’ve Mod Blacklisted him from my games. So I’m not going to be able to read him directly. He is in my opinion that bad a player. So I’m going to read him as I do other VIs (FourseenCircumstances comes to mind) and using that methodology I don’t see him as likely scum at this point. The fact that I have several other strong scum candidates also factors in to this.
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Post Post #459 (isolation #74) » Mon May 07, 2012 7:20 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Vijay
– I don’t recall your read on Pappums. Could you please illuminate me?

@Peregrine
– Is Pizza not scum and thus Matt’s hop justified your ?

--

Benmage wrote:The game is too young, and I have been too burdensome to do justice here. I would be more concerned with my lack of content, than the number of posts I have.


Um, whut? You can’t play the game because everyone is “Too New”? Cop-out and I do not like at all. Who, besides me in your eyes, is scum Ben?

--

Fate wrote:His point is that I'm not the most active poster in the thread ego I'm scum, which is just a useless meta that's not even true. I've explained why I don't feel liek posting in this game that often, and its not as if I lurk as scum (if you bother to look you'll notice I was the most active poster in most of my recent scum games). His point is invalid and null at best


Funny about this claim by Fate … he I believe is referring to Brass and Shrapnel.

If that is indeed the check out this post by Fate post-game there ..

If I was clearly scum you didn't really seem to make an attempt at convincing anyone I was.

I kinda won while afk powerlurking playing GW2


So Fate is right there acknowledging that he lurks as scum when it is to his advantage.
Yeah, you can take that “that meta sucks” and cram it Fate. If you were Town you’d be plugged into this game. As it stands you are lurking out pushing on Pizza and have ‘maybe’ a scum read on Pappums who you aren’t interacting with in the least. Not Town oriented behavior.
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Post Post #461 (isolation #75) » Mon May 07, 2012 8:01 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Vijay ISO
Review (an post I don’t reference consider fully Null material at this stage) –

– The “good vote MoI, but misguided” actually reads to me as scum looking to be as casual as possible after our MST3K game together.

@Vijay
– why was my vote a ‘good’ one?

– As previously mentioned Vijay got +Scum points for inventing a ‘slip’ that made no sense in context and voting it.

– Again as previously noted - +scumpoints for the “You are mudslinging” comment on a meta basis.

– I see the Town thought process to asking Knox to commit to a vote (even if it was a secondary scum-read to me at this stage). + Town

– Willing to hammer me even if it costs him his life. +Town.

– +scumpoints here. Vijay is saying he likes by Shotgun when that post itself is a “I’m lost” post that really says zero.

and – Actually a +Town on these posts given he is willing to agree that I have a valid point on Yates while still saying I am scum. Shows he is willing to consider the possibility I am Town.

– Townpoints in that (From my perspective, I know) Vijay is the first to move away from my wagon and does so with reasoning as to another scum candidate.

– Actually I have to give +scumpoinst for this as he specifically in 124 that he was willing to hammer me if I am a bomb. It reads as possible active lurking on his part.

– Minor scum-points for appealing to Fate for a vote here while he’s been soft-selling Fate as scum at various points.

@Vijay
– is your “Yates is scum” position driven by anything other than “He was pushing MoI on a manufactured scum-tell’?

Would you vote Fate today?

Conclusion
– Mixed bag. I wouldn’t lynch him unless it came down between him and someone I had a Town read on today to avoid a No-lynch but definately not a Town read.
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Post Post #469 (isolation #76) » Mon May 07, 2012 1:17 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Pizza
- care to vote Pappums Rat to even up the competing wagons?
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Post Post #471 (isolation #77) » Mon May 07, 2012 1:33 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Have any non-fluff for us Ben?
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Post Post #479 (isolation #78) » Tue May 08, 2012 5:35 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage has again made numerous posts (15) in other games since his last string here (which were all fluff).

--

Peregrine wrote:You're quoting the guy who says YOU are scum?

Saying survival vote sounds more accurate.


Elaborate on what you are saying here …

@Peregrine
– Fate is correct in you should be voting Pappums.

--

Pappums wrote:Wow this is awful. While people often do have traits that you can judge them to some degree on, making this hard of a metatell is just terrible. There is RL to consider, there is a person's level of involvement in the game, there is the person's strategy for the game, and many other things to consider when you get into a person's activity.
That you say they are scum here based upon how often they post in other games or places of the forum is a FUCKING TERRIBLE ARGUMENT.


Oh look, handwaving. But let’s examine …

1. RL to consider – Benmage hasn’t said anything about RL reasons for low activity and content. In fact that only thing he alluded to is being in 5 games. I’m in more than that right now. So that’s not a real reason ATM.
2. Level of involvement in the game – when Benmage has, as Town, consistently in the past espoused a “Town Benmage is active Benmage” stance (and he agreed to this) then his level of involvement in the game should be considered alignment driven.
3. Strategy for the game – not a really valid point IMO since strategy in a particular game is not alignment dependant.
4. Many other things to consider – broad net that says nothing.

But let’s also discuss the straw-man I’ve bolded.

I clearly have indicated why Benmage in particular is scum BEYOND activity (same for Fate to a lesser extent given I have not made a full case on him) and you trying to suggest the only reason for my statements is this point is scummy as all get out.

Pappums wrote: It is a massive stretch to say I am playing against my wincon by not trying quite as hard as I could.


Well if you were Town and just CBFed to actually support your statements thus making you look scummy as fuck it is hardly a stretch.

Pappums wrote: Because I was too caught up in my confirmation bias and made arguments that were based in it.


So you’ve abdicated that yet another point you are using against me isn’t valid. But I’m still scum. Noted.

I have already answered said question – yes clearly his “Hey discuss this hypothetical situation” was not a “I will hammer you if you don’t claim” statement. You starting foaming at the mouth the first time I stated it so I’m not sure why you are now pretending I didn’t answer it.
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Post Post #512 (isolation #79) » Wed May 09, 2012 1:55 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

I'll have more time in the AM but I have to say it has been humorous (as in laughably bad) to see Benmage ranting about me sniping and besmirtching him while doing basically that with all his post-shot post int he last 36 hours. So at least you are playing to the Theme Ben ... I will certainly give you that! I'll actually respond to them tomorrow but for right now I'll point out the following -

Benmage
- you
STILL
have not provided my those links to games where you properly read Fate of either alignment to support your 'I can read him' stance. I've been patient with this but since you already blatantly lied twice during the whole 'Supernatural oops it was AFFC' debacle I'm really not letting this go.
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Post Post #521 (isolation #80) » Thu May 10, 2012 2:49 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So this is my ‘Respond to Benmage’ post.

--

Benmage wrote: Well nonetheless, whats the most common scum role? RB. So don't softclaim so obviously please.


So it was bad of him to soft-claim and yet Benmage is ripe to jump right on said soft-claim and bring it right to everyone’s attention in .

That’s perfectly Pro-Town behavior to on one hand point and scream “HEY LOOK VIAJY CLAIMED VIG” and then turn right around and say “Tut tut chap you should not be doing that. And I’m being sarcastic. It’s not. The above post was clearly useless Faux Town Concern style posting.

Benmage wrote: Yeah I told you to msg Faraday about MGS, where I precaught Fate scum. So being able to identify Fate as scum, means being able to recognize if he's not scum, i.e. town. SO cheah.

You can also msg Amrun for Otters tigers and sharks. I called Fate scum. Along with DGB i think too, and was asked if they were on the same team where I said I didn't know.

So while I might not have a recent game calling him town. (I don't know.. did I in Gorrads Mafia? I don't care too look) Those are too recent games where I found him scum, and I believe being able to see him as scum, is being able to see the reverse. That said. I need to re-evaluate that early read.


So your only support for your “I can read Fate like a Book” is

1. A ‘pre-read’ that isn’t actually documented in a thread anywhere and we would just have ‘take Faraday’s word for it’?
2. An eaten thread where you ‘caught Fate’. Remind me again – when I was half-reading along with that game the reason I recall Fate was caught by Iecerint counter-claimed his “Shark Watcher” fake-claim and not some brilliant scum-hunting on your part. Then again I didn’t intently read the game so I can’t substantiate that you were NOT calling him scummy before he was lynched.

So you have nothing else for me?

Benmage wrote: Mis-stating open sourced information. YES I TOLD YOU EVERYONE YOU WERE TOWN IN ASOS AND DIDN'T THINK YOU"D FIX THAT......... Reeeeeeaach further please.


So let me get this straight. You make assertions characterizing my stance that I believed in the “Undermining of Benmage is a Scumtell” stance when I am Town.

First you reference Supernatural Mafia as the source and when I ask you to provide links you get all ‘High and Mighty’ saying “YOU REFUTE MY STATEMENT”? When I say I do and you are making crap up you next go “Hurr , it was A Storm of Swords Mafia I don’t have perfect recall but HERE ARE YOUR DIRECT WORDS AS TOWN SHOWING YOU BELIEVE IT”. And then I show how you are once again fabricating as I was scum trying to use that derp argument to get a mislynch on GreyICE. And your response is “Well dunce cap on me”

So what would you have me believe –

That you are playing so poorly as Town that you would fabricate evidence to support your case not once but twice and when it has been presented to you that your only comment is ‘Guess I was wrong on that’. I see no signs you are backing off your stance.

Sorry, that makes no sense to me.

Benmage wrote:-I think he's calling us easy targets to rile up, not low hanging fruit if you will....
-Decent second point. That feels like an AtR.


1. You seem to be doing an awful lot of explaining away / excuse making for Pappums. Did you read the LMP game in question to review for yourself the ‘extent’ at which his statements are valid or are you just taking his word for it?
2. Really. You think Pappums is making a scummy ‘Appeal to Repetition’? That’s an interesting reaction from you given

^oh, calling scum, scum.... welcome to Mafia.


Here you basically said my stating you were ‘Appealing to Repitition’ regarding me was not valid. So suddenly it is a good point and possibly valid when before it was junk? That’s what’s called Cognitive Dissonance.

Benmage wrote: That was quite early into the game.... I could've done some meta research, I certainly have in past game.

-You can that confidently now...but at the time. Not really.


Really … going down this road again? What Past game have you done early game research like you asked me to do for you this game? And if you were going to do it yourself you wouldn’t have asked me the initial question you would have done it. So yes, I could easily confidently say so then.

Benmage wrote: See, I still don't like this at all about MoI.


Way to be vague. Are you specifically stating that my opinioin about Peregrine’s complete ‘not indication of hammer’ is scummy? Please actually state such if so and explain why it is scummy. Otherwise why are you fluffing if you aren’t trying to make a statement about my alignment.

Benmage wrote: Wait... what did I miss here?


One of your early ‘scum-points’ on me was that I was using insulting languge regarding Fate. In I showed Fate doing the exact same things in reverse ... basically attacking me with insults. You clearly are smart enough to get that. Why duck commenting on it?

Benmage wrote:I could find MoI twisting things to sound the way he'd want them to.


Funny, because I’ve already proven you are doing just that. Fabricating meta evidence to support your ‘case’. Trying on one hand to suggest that certain meta is a valid scum-tell while simultaneously trying to dismiss out of hand other meta that shows Town-tells.

Benmage wrote:I'm glad you've kept the humour(fancy). Sometimes I feel like I'm sitting down to work. WTF is that!!? This is a game. Dis shitz suppose to be fun.


That’s because mislynching me is damn hard work. If you wanted fun you wouldn’t have chosen that route in the first place champ!

Benmage wrote: QFT. MoI will use just about anything it seems to paint the negative picture.


Pot calling kettle … pot calling kettle.

This is
TO A TEE
exactly what you have done all game. Tried to portray pretty much every element of my play as ‘obv-scummy’ no matter how much it doesn’t make sense.

And further buddying / agreeing / defending of Pappums is noted.

Benmage wrote: Fuck this reads so town.


As is this.

Benmage wrote: 1. Disagree.

1. You being able to keep up with more than 5 games means I can....This logic is perfect. (moreinternetsarcasm)
2. Answered already, but you'll ignore truth and beat this point. I've been called out for slow starts before. The game is still D1 and hence premature to be looking at PC. Am I scum in all my games? ROFL.


Oh wow you disagree that I’ve made it clearly why you are scum. ‘No U’ is it?

Link me to other completed games that you’ve been ‘called out’ for slow starts as Town. I’ve never recalled seeing one. You keep trying to claim support for your statements and not providing it and I’m going to call you out on it every time.

If you aren’t capable of keeping up with so many games why haven’t you replaced out of one of them to lighten your load and allow you to play with full effectiveness instead of trying to hide your scummy play here behind “I’m so overloaded”?

Benmage wrote: (I am planning on looking at the others now, starting with our two leads pizzza/rat.)


This came at . Still very much waiting on this.

For the record I do think it is pretty damn scummy that you post your little where you essentially say “I’m storing this here to point and laugh at Korlash post game regarding Pizza” while saying you actually need to look into Pizza 3 posts later. If you’ve already made the assessment that Korlash is wrong and Pizza is scumtastic why are you stating you need to look into Pizza?

And on the sniping end let’s quote all your recent sniping / undermining yourself:

Because this snipe is way cooler than asking why I could possible after all that change my read right. Gosh I wish I was as BadAss as you. (internetsarcasm)


Complaining about me calling out your fluff (and it was that) while doing some sniping yourself. Nice use of double standard.

For the record – it was fluff because you basically said “Damn I’m too stubborn to change my read on MoI” which is meaningless crap. Your posts have indicated NOT ONCE that any change was evidenced. Nope, not a bit. Just more attacks, dismissive suggestions and further repititions that “MoI is scum”.

FUCKING BASTARD!!! POSTING ELSEWHERE!!! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!

(although, being behind a couple pages in a game could be a deterrent, whereas he could be up to date in the other threads... or hell it could be the start of a new game ...the posts could be largely phone posts...)

NO FUCK THAT KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!! RAWR AMERICA


Look it’s undermining in a way that tries to ridicule my stance that makes perfect sense.

1. You have on multiple occasions posted many, many times in other games while avoiding this one.
2. You agree directly that “Active Benmage is Town Benmage” is a stance you have championed as Town in other games. Yet here you are trying to make every excuse in the book why that isn’t true for just this game.

Whatever.

The MoI case is awesome:
I have a family and can post during the weekends.
MoI has a family and cannot.
Therefore MoI is scum.

(This totally isn't me mocking MoI's point of being able to handle X amount of games, and me being overwhelmed)


Oh look .. pointless undermining that doesn’t have any relation to actual scum-hunting.

Undermining is only bad when it’s aimed at you right? :roll:
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Post Post #522 (isolation #81) » Thu May 10, 2012 3:08 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Everyone does understand we have only 5 Days left to go until deadline, right?

I very much dislike the fact that no-one who is on Pizza seems to be doing anything in regards to providing a case on him.

Just pushing empty rhetoric like “WHY ISN’T HE DEAD YET?” and ignoring the fact that he’s a terrible player. And he is. He’s on my personal Mod blacklist he’s that bad. I will state for the record I will never be able to read him from his own posting (aka Shotty / Furc / etc). That said – the way he is a leading wagon (and counterwagon to Pappums-scum) tells me a lot about what I think his alignment to be.

@Shotgun
– if you are lost do smart thing and vote Pappums so we can lynch scum.

--

Actually I do tend to agree with Peregrine’s ‘tell’ used in regard to MattP. Hiding behind “This thread is horrible’ and doing jack shit is a great way to active lurk.

Peregrine wrote:@MoI- Papums and Pizza are the biggest wagons. I didn't see an outstanding reason for voting Pizza, so it looks like a "biggest wagon" vote.


Ok, I get you. You are saying Matt is scummy for just hopping on a biggest wagon.

Let me ask you think Peregrine – the fact that he chose to hop on Pizza and not Pappums should tell you something about Pappums if you think MattP is scum.

Vote Pappums for a scum-lynch today!

--

pappums wrote: While pizza has mainly just been shitting around coasting, MoI has [slander] been manipulative and has been actively slanting certain "facts" his way to make things sound the way he wants them to. [/slander]


Or I’m just scum-hunting you accurately and without means to actually defend yourself you are having to resort to “He’s twisting” arguments instead.

--

Korlash wrote:Oh, and for your LYLO part, let me let you in on a little secret... come closer.... closer... you smell nice by the way, anyway if we lynch the scum, stay with me here, we won't have to go to lylo... I know, radical idea right...


This is the distilled essence of why what is effectively Policy lynching when obv-scums like Pappums and Benmage are hanging around is terrible.

In a Large Theme there is time to recover from a policy lynch if it hits Town as statistically it does. In a Mini there isn't nearly as much and the fact that we have obv-scum in Pappums and Benmage just makes it that much worse an option. Getting rid of Pizza via Vig is much more appealing.

--

Yates wrote: For one - it illustrates WAY too much effort for a "lurker."
For two - to show I'm not lying [admins can verify my IP - not this one - is from the University]
For three - to brag.


While I don’t think it is scummy at all (or think you are scum) don’t you recall the effort DavidX went to showing his exam schedule in Sci-Fi Mafia (where he was lurker-scum)?

The bragging part you should have led with! :D
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Post Post #529 (isolation #82) » Thu May 10, 2012 8:53 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MattP wrote:How about this for a vote:

vote: MoI

Reason: You're annoying as fuck and I'd like to see you shut your big mouth ASAP. Your stupid little slip at the beginning of the day and your baseless threats/bullying to Benmage when you were near hammered are nauseating.


I appreciate your reaction to my stating you have provided no readable content with this vitriolic and completely out of proportional rant. It will help me determine your alignment down the line.

Don't blame organic chemistry when you joined this game full well knowing your own personal schedule.
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Post Post #530 (isolation #83) » Thu May 10, 2012 8:55 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

PeregrineV wrote:Yes, and you even give an example.

RE: Your Papum vote still seems like OMGUS. I'll look at the other cases by Korlash, Pizza, and MiniLib.

pedit-lol...a twist!


I've yet to give an example of anyone making a case on Pizza in what you quoted so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

If you think my Pappums case looks like OMGUS you probably either haven't actually read or don't want to take the time to digest. I don't care but to boil down all I have put into that case as simple OMGUS is pretty sad at this late stage of the Day.
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Post Post #534 (isolation #84) » Thu May 10, 2012 9:05 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MattP wrote:I joined and stated VERY explicitly my activity levels. If the host does not like said activity levels then the host can replace me. If you do not like my activity levels then you can request I am replaced. But abrasively speculating on what my activity means (jackshitactivelurkingbullshit) when I TOLD YOU what it means is idiotic. Your entire "I art better than thou" demeanor is idiotic this round.

Come back to me tomorrow when I am actively posting and contributing and then tell me I am an active lurker. Until then keep your grandiose swingings of your thick-skulled head to yourself.


Oh I see ... more pointless name-calling form you after your statements about how hard it made the game to read.

I also like your admission that you know you will live to see tomorrow and can't possibly be the target of a Nightkill attempt by the Mafia. That's a position usually reserved for Mafia members themselves.
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Post Post #536 (isolation #85) » Thu May 10, 2012 9:08 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MattP wrote:Just a word of advice, not that you will take it since you're superior to everyone this game, but maybe by not insulting anyone that disagrees with you you will be more successful at getting people to listen to you if you have good points. I haven't caught up to your case on pappums but I doubt that I will agree with it even when I get to it just because you're annoying.


Just a word of advice ... given that you are saying here that you judge the quality of content based on whether you find someone annoying or not I'm not sure would be following your advice to begin with.

For the record ... calling you out on your complete lack of CONTENT (which is independent of activity) is not insulting you. It is quite correctly saying you have provided nothing useful to hunting scum.

There are multiple possible reasons why this is the case. Time will tell which it is.
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Post Post #537 (isolation #86) » Thu May 10, 2012 9:11 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MattP wrote:There's a famous statement called "getting a taste of your own medicine."

Oyea, mafia will kill the player that hasn't yet contributed anything to the game. I'll level with you, let's say there is a 1% chance mafia will kill me tonight.


Yes, and when the person making that statement still bemoans incivility it means they are either scum or a complete hipocrit. Or possibly both.

I do appreciate you agreeing that you have not provided anything to the game. Why do you question that people might consider this scum-positive behavior and questions your "I'm busy" suggestions?

In fact rather than bantering back and forth with me you could have spent this time quickly ISOing Pizza and Pappums and forming your own reads. But no you want spend this time lecturing me on how to play Mafia. Quaint.
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Post Post #542 (isolation #87) » Fri May 11, 2012 7:19 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MOD – I’ll be LA from 4:30pm EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties. And specifically this weekend with a charity golf Scramble on Saturday to help with and Mother’s Day on Sunday my posting is likely to be restricted to late nights if at all.


--

Peregrine wrote:I was using Matt as an example of no Pizza case given, like you stated a few sentences above.

I read the post you voted him, and you said lining up lynches, but you said this after you voted him. Before you voted him, you were responding to him. Is that not the reason for your vote?


Interesting. Either my brain is no longer properly processing English or the way you wrote that is fairly obtusely bizzare and I didn't make the connection regarding your first sentence there.

In I point out the ways the post I reference in question is scummy. Do you disagree with the points I made?

There are many posts and obvservations between 72 and 287 where I comment on Pappums being scummy and detail why.

I only actually voted him in and by that point Pappums had already dropped another terrible vote (this time on Pizza).

So again – why are you trying to dismiss my vote on him as OMGUS when it is nothing of the sort? Do you not, looking at my and pappums ISOs, see me doing inquiry and scum-hunting regarding him?

--

Korlash wrote:
I need to take some time to analyze today's votes. A quick look back gives me a funny feeling...


Please do elaborate on this ….
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Post Post #545 (isolation #88) » Fri May 11, 2012 9:46 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate wrote:Unvote:
Vote: MoI

Don't really care want him dead over Pappums


Bullet between the eyes. And I will feel completely justified because if you aren’t scum you are terrible.

Guess there is a reason you never won the Best Newbie Award huh Fate? Still makes you cry a little bit knowing that to this day I can tell.

That's right scum ... the one of you not on my wagon already (since Ben and pappums are already there) feel free to vote for me today if Fate is Town. I'm totally, absolutely going to Vengekill him with 100% certainty.
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Post Post #548 (isolation #89) » Fri May 11, 2012 9:53 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate wrote:I'd be glad if you did MoI, it would add the insult of being mislynched to the injury of vigging town, aka you aren't helpful enough to town for people to WANT to keep you alive and your own reads are shit because you SHOOT town.


No being useless would be voting someone your last read on was Town for personal aggrevation issues. Which is what you are trying to sell you are doing here. And I'm not buying for a minute.

But why are you not screaming that scum Pizza is getting away? Back to pretending I am scum again Fate?

You are pretty terrible at pretending to be Town. I guess all these recent games where you got owned as scum have really made you rusty.

Yeah, I'll still with Pappums / Benmage / Fate. Probably at worst wrong on only 1 of those 3 reads.

But it will please me ever so much to ventilate you right between the eyes and get to gloat all the rest of the dead thread about catching you and killing you.

Because I'm 100% with my Vengekills to this point. And will be after you croak too I'm guessing.
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Post Post #550 (isolation #90) » Fri May 11, 2012 9:58 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Heck, just in case this happens this weekend so as to not hold up Night ...

MOD - I'm stating for the record if I am lynched this weekend that the following is my choice (assuming Fate is still on the wagon) -

Kill: Fate

Feel free to process it unless Fate leaves the wagon. It will not change unless that happens
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Post Post #555 (isolation #91) » Fri May 11, 2012 12:35 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Oopps I made a mistake

Kill: Korlash


I was wondering who I could bait into the wagon that way.
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Post Post #558 (isolation #92) » Fri May 11, 2012 12:57 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Korlash wrote:Go for it mate. Vote analysis, set-up speculation, and recent events all say you should be lynched. You can't scare me off...

You're still killing someone other than Rat which isn't what a townie in your position would be doing at this point.


I'm not trying to scare you off.

Not a single thing you said about vote analysis, set-up speculation or recent events is true BTW. It was a nice little exercise for you to slide onto the wagon you did a great job avoiding earlier when my claim wasn't clear. But the timing (after I had made it clear I would only be shooting Fate) was perfect scum hopping on.

Yup, I know my trifecta of Benmage / pappums / Fate were not ALL scum. All three were on my wagon the first time around.

You on the other hand did a stand-up job buddying me (which Peregrine did point out) early. Yet the second I looked at you sideways in questioning you began"Oh, maybe you are scum calling everyone who questions you scum".

Stay right there Korlash ...
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Post Post #573 (isolation #93) » Sat May 12, 2012 1:50 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yeah, I have to agree here.

Korlash's hop on was overjustified (I get Fate dead also? Win Win! Also I do like playing with you but all the concocted bullshit means you have to die and take Town with you.), his appeals to Vijay (stay as far away from the lynch as possible you are toooo valuable) and this last round of "We have two chances to catch scum by lynching MoI Fate) seals it for me.

No Town player says "We've got two chances to catch scum ... MoI if he's scum and me if he shoots me".

VOTE: Korlash

Korlash-scum means paradoxically that pappums is more likely just terrible Town. But his buddying / defending Benmage fits scum buddy behavior to a tee.
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Post Post #588 (isolation #94) » Sun May 13, 2012 1:43 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Remember
-

Benmage is scum. Put it in the bank.

Korlash is probably scum also. He prides himself on being able to 'talk his way out of anything' and he bit on the "Take out two Townies" bait I laid out.

Vote Analysis will probably find the third.

I'm VT for the record. I fake-claimed Vengeful to see people's reactions and actions. Go back and look at who was hesitant to vote me the first time around on top of how Korlash acted here.
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Post Post #593 (isolation #95) » Sun May 13, 2012 3:32 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

By the way ... Korlash is scum for the following post in the IGMEOY Dead QT -

"Fucking fuck fuck... Someone hammer... i need to use this game as meta for [redacted]... "

It demonstrates he was selectively hunting evidence to "support" his case.

Once I flip Town you can lynch / Vig Ben and Korlash in rapid succession.
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Post Post #597 (isolation #96) » Sun May 13, 2012 7:05 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Benmage wrote:You are unfucking believably terrible at this MoI. I don't even give a fuck now if you do flip town.


Please spare me Scumbag.
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Post Post #601 (isolation #97) » Sun May 13, 2012 8:42 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Read the above and lynch him tomorrow please! Or Benmage. Both are scum.
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Post Post #603 (isolation #98) » Sun May 13, 2012 8:59 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Korlash wrote:Yeah keep it up MoI, this fake 'obv distancing' as you die isn't very attractive an it won't work to paint me as your scum partner.

Does a good job of givin me not so warm and fuzzy feelings from Ben though...


And when I flip Town as I will they can hang your ass from the nearest tree!
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Post Post #607 (isolation #99) » Sun May 13, 2012 11:58 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Oh look ... not too late to lynch scum Benmage or Korlash ...

If this is still open tomorrow I'll dissect all the crap Korlash has laid out while LA.

And Benmage's last responses are typical of Benmage scum. Don't address the things pointed out and just call people names.
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Post Post #619 (isolation #100) » Mon May 14, 2012 3:15 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Fate wrote: He used our history and hate between eachother to try and draw out EAGER scum. That's 100% town

Unvote:
Vote: Korlash


This is 100% exactly what happened. Once I flip Town keep this in mind.

--

Yates wrote: My hesitation is, unbelievably, something along the lines of what Pizza said [God help me]. It's impossible to determine the motivation for your gambit until after a flip but this one does feel like a survivalist play. The whole "I'm going to shoot Fate - scratch that I'm going to shoot Korlash" thing played weird yet somehow created this Korlash counter-wagon when you have once again reached L-1. While I'm sure scum can get out of L-1 without a problem [simple matter of a bussing scum buddy hopping off], I don't know how Town can wriggle out of L-1 twice in one day so easily. This would make me consider an MoI/Fate scum buddy team if MoI were to be lynched and flip scum [especially after that "I retract my PR claim" business].


Keep this whole line of thinking in mind after I flip Town. I gambitted out Korlash and Benmage is obv-scum. Both need rope ASAP.

--

Pappums wrote: * that should read "I would expect Korlash to be scum and Fate to be town."


Keep this in mind after I flip. Do not forget it.

--

So let’s start at where Korlash drops into his “get that mislynch” mode ..

Wait wait wait...

Do I have this right? If we lynch MoI we either hit scum or Fate dies... So... It's a win/win for me? >.> <.<

I'm going to do this vote analysis right now first but combine this with my uneasy feeling about the wagons and MoI's recent gamble of posting his PM to the mod in thread (or prematurely, I don't know how the fuck vengeful are suppose to operate) I see a very strong possibility of me swapping wagons...

Although it does pain me to vote with Fate... Hmmm... I guess I'll just cover his name up and pretend I'm joining Ben... Ahhh... Blissful ignorance...

More to come...


This entire post is staging. First he throws down the “Oh, we either lynch MoI scum or I get Fate killed” stance. Given that Fate is not actually referenced as scum in this exchange (just that Korlash can be rid of him if I’m not scum) it’s trying to mask the hope that he has indeed gotten his double Town death via my Fate ‘hate’. He further shows this in his “I hate to vote with Fate, I’ll just pretend I’m voting with Benmage” which implicitly shows he doesn’t believe I or Fate are scum. If so why even bother to say it? Because you should clearly not hate voting scum regardless of who is on the wagon, or care if a partner is bussing said scum.

This post is the first part of his ‘overjustification’. If he thougth I was scum he’s simply vote me, say “Deadline is close, Pappums isn’t getting lynched, we need a flip” pretty straightforwardly.

Now on to

Korlash wrote:So MoI gets to L-1, wagon stalls as it does and fallout more or less leads to the Pizza wagon forming. Rat unvotes MoI and revotes Pizza swapping out MoI for Pizza in terms of lead wagon. Immediately following this MoI creates the Rat wagon (knowing I would follow him) which creates an alternative possibility for competing wagon to the Pizza wagon that isn't his own. Pizza wagon falls through, as they do, and oddly enough MoI is returned to the competing wagon thanks to Rat's revote...

I can't make any conclusions on vote analysis without flips so I can only say that from a scum perspective of MoI, this would fit fairly well. Given who he is, the competing wagon he creates would have to be on a partner to both give him better credit (after being at L-1) and to make sure that wagon sticks (a wagon on scum is easier to build since, you know, it's on f'in scum). So it is a viable conclusion to say both MoI and Rat are likely and possibly scum. Clearly not enough on it's own to make me switch my vote, but certainly doesn't let me sleep easy knowing MoI is getting off if I don't.


This is what you call empty posting. He throws us a complete paragraph that is a rehash of the wagon movement of the day, which is pretty easy to find just by looking at the Mod Vote-counts.

Then we have the following – “I can’t conclude anything since we don’t have a flip, but knowing MoI-scum it makes perfect sense for his counter-wagon to be on a partner”. So he’s absolutely first distancing himself from the conclusion he makes (haven’t seen a flip) but tries to tie “MoI scum” to the stance he’s had most of the day “Pappums scum”.

This is further reason why I’m fairly happy to call him scum. His ‘VC Analysis’ first isn’t an actual analysis but just a justification of his play through the day. He’s aiming to use my play in IGMEOY Mafia (where I power-bussed both partners) to say “It makes sense that Pappums and MoI are Partners”. What he isn’t telling you is that game I power-bussed because the Mod fucked the game up beyond recognition (he ‘on the fly’ added a second Sane Town cop due to a Role PM screw-up he mande and then later confirmed that the Cops were Town in the thread itself) and the long-show was out only shot to beat PoE. But Korlash, who has never played with me as scum for a full game, is trying to tie that single scum game to my play here in a manner to suggest his reads are still justified. Scummy.

Korlash wrote: Now we come to the new information. MoI's vengeful claim has just been solidified as a real claim (I was being honest when I said I didn't remember it the first time so I never took it as a 'real' claim) and that claim is bullshit in the setup. No 'good' comedian takes someone down with them when they die. Bad comedians do that. "I sucked, therefore your show is going to be terrible too." So from a setup perspective his claim is not only unlikely to be town, but actually more likely to be scum.

Lastly, My own selfish desire to see Fate die in as creative a way as possible intrigues me... >.> (No in all seriousness his idea of having two flips isn't terrible. MoI's death alone gives us his early game wagon along with how Pizza's and Rat's sprang up and grew from whatever alignment's perspective. Having a flipped Fate(anyone else) would just be icing on the cake that is scum's imminent demise.)


1. The first paragraph is an example of “Outguessing the Mod”. He’s experienced enough to know that it’s not good Town play at all to do so. For example look at JasonT’s last Mini Theme Sci-Fi Mafia which had Sarah Connor of Terminator lore as a ‘Watcher” and Luke Skywalker as a “Hider”. In that game DavidXanatos scum tried to make the same “This doesn’t make sense” Mod outguessing argument against Woodruff’s Luke Skywalker claim. He was scum.
2. The second paragraph does not make any sense with the first. In the first he’s saying my role was invalid and in the second he’s talking about how lynching me as said role makes sense from a “get an additional flip” standpoint. It makes no sense to include the second paragraph if he honestly believed the first. None at all. Because if he really believed I was scum fake-claiming he wouldn’t cover his tracks and say “I’d love to see Fate flip in an creative way”. Nope. The second paragraph highlights that he didn’t at this stage believe I was fake-claiming Vengeful . Otherwise he wouldn’t discuss the Pro-Town benefits of lynching me (agreeing with Fate) at all.

Korlash wrote:For what it's worth dude, I don't hate you. I actually enjoy playing with you and you being on the player list above me was a reason I joined. But... This whole shtick screams gambit at this point, and uh... I can't have that. Just a word of advice, if you had said you would have killed Rat... Might have worked better for you. But that's a big slip up on your part.


This is the kicker – why is he apologizing for voting me if he thinks I’m scum? No reason to. The only reason to do this is he knows I’m not and wants to keep things smooth and have me not change my target if I am indeed a Vengeful (which he ostensibly doesn’t believe if you read his post above).

An of course I disagree … my Vengeful long-gambit worked well. It gave us tons of meaningful interactions early (who refused to vote my wagon early) and highlighted you as scum being coaxed onto the wagon.

Korlash wrote:On an unrelated note, A non-vengeful Scum flip from MoI would make my two top suspects Rat and Fate in that order. (yes yes, blah blah blah at me Fate but if this is a gamble on his part one of you [if not both] is likely his partner)


Read this carefully … how is my flipping non-Vengeful scum (which is the only type of scum flip I could have) unrelated to this post? The heart of his reasoning is that I fake-claimed Vengeful as scum. Here all he is doing is looking to justify his suspicions going forward (note that Fate is now scum despite him never mentioning him as such before).

Korlash wrote:Go for it mate. Vote analysis, set-up speculation, and recent events all say you should be lynched. You can't scare me off...


Keep in mind that he just in the previous post said that the Vote Analysis wasn’t valid without flips. Also keep in mind that I’ve already shown his set-up speculation is scummy.

Korlash wrote:Actually, no. This is a lie. You just said point blank your 'kill fate' was some sort of ploy, thus 'recent events' is true by your own admission. You haven't posed an alternative to my setup speculation, so you have no grounds to argue it. And to say any sort of 'speculation' is wrong is just a stupid thing to say. It's not wrong or right, it's speculation.


Nice response right here.

1. Yes it was a ploy. A ploy that caught scum Korlash. You haven’t indicated or made an argument as to how Town don’t gambit / use ploys. You just keep trying to dismiss it by saying "Gambit better". So no, I’m clearly not agreeing with you.
2. I haven’t shown alternatives to your set-up speculation? I don’t have to. Outguessing the Mod is useless as already outlined. But your distancing “it isn’t right or wrong, it’s speculation” shows that you don’t actually believe what you are floating.

Korlash wrote:And I made my feelings on the wagon being fishy before you posted you would 'kill fate' and before he even voted. Are you suggesting I was psychic and had planned this all along? Regardless of if you think I am scum or not, my 'timing' began before your ploy. The only one who is wrong here is you mate.


Um, whut? You had feelings that my wagon was fishy before that? The only reason my wagon should be fishy is if I am Town. So derp … you’re just proving my point for me.

And of course you are dodging the issue – you bit hook, line and sinker to the gambit. You saw MoI who has claimed Vengeful apparently biting on his bad history with Fate and saying “Jump on my wagon, I’ll still kill Town-Fate for spite” which you have no reason to doubt. So you see this post, spend 30 minutes making the post where you justify voting me for all sorts of reasons, and slide on the wagon.

You got caught with your hand in the cookie jar Scumlash. Too late to reverse course on that now!

Korash wrote:You do realize that anyone who had voted you would have gotten this treatment from you, right? Which makes it all the more stupid as a ploy. With deadline approaching and you the lead wagon someone was going to vote you. Just some advice from one gambiter to another. Even when you're faking it, you need to sound legit. You have a lot to learn.


Oh the one-two despereation punch –

1. Trying to suggest that my gambit is invalid because “anyone would have gotten the same treatment”. Yup anyone who jumped on with the justification and timing that you gave would. Because they would be scum. You notice that Mini Librarian also properly noted you vote was scummy. Is he scum also?
2. Trying to insult and dismiss (you have a lot to learn about gambitting). It burns to get caught doesn’t it?

Korlash wrote:No, you stay off the wagon V2V.

If the scum want you dead they'll have to do it at night. Don't take the risk MoI has a scum equivalent of the role he claimed.


Korlash posted this at . Note that he is implicitly showing that he believes me claim is still valid (I had not yet retracted it) in his buddying to V2V. If he thought I was scum who would not be killing someone on my wagon (which is his premise). Which doesn’t make sense. Why would I be worried about who jumped on as I have shown in calling Korlash scum? I could just kill whoever I wanted. Yet the main thrust of Korlash’s post is that I’m not Vengeful. It’s Cognitive Dissoance.

Korlash wrote:Lynching MoI (from your perspective) would kill me (Who you just said voted 'scummy' so... I'm guessing you have some notion as to my alignment.)
Add in MoI's recent actions and from any town's perspective lynching MoI gives a potential two chances to take out scum. Him, or if we're wrong, me.
Lynching anyone else only gives us one. It's a no brainier really.


Keep this in mind post my flip – Korlash in the bolded is actively acknowledging that him being a Vengekill is a chance to flip scum. No Town player ever thinks this. If he was Town he’s be making more of a point for me to be shooting his ‘scum’ suspects Pappums and Fate. But nope … he’s not even thinking about that. He’s not approaching the situation from a Town perspective.

Korlash wrote:For what it's worth, my whole "Lynch MoI for double the chance" isn't some bullshit shtick I'm tossing out willy nilly. Lynch MoI, and even in the event you 'guessed' wrong, I still die. Lynch me, and if you're wrong you have to waste a second day making up for it.


And at Korlash is still pretending that he thinks my claim is valid in pushing Yates to vote me. Doesn’t connect with his “I was voting you for fake-claiming” that he trotted out after I claimed VT.

Korlash wrote:Hard to say how to take this atm... You're trying to set up some argument for tomorrow, but I can see it going either way... You wouldn't want to just do me a solid and tell me which one of these guys is your partner would you? Promise I'll pay you back the first time you manage to catch me as scum.


I’ve already caught you but in your defense your strong defense of obv-scum Benmage has already told me you are partners :D
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Post Post #620 (isolation #101) » Mon May 14, 2012 3:18 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So I've gotten my final words in.

Someone can hammer.

Keep this in mind - every Night when Benmage and Korlash who are "Town" somehow miraculously are not targetted over other players is another reason why they are scum. Neither of them as Town should survive long-term.

So when Fate dies but they don't don't let them weasel their way out of it.

Both are scum for being alive past Night 2. Same argument Benmage has floated at me before - turn-about is a bitch, huh Scummage?
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Post Post #622 (isolation #102) » Mon May 14, 2012 4:18 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Remember - Benmage and Korlash are both scum who need rope / bullets!
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Post Post #1386 (isolation #103) » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:55 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

drmyshotgun wrote:Sincere congratulations~


Yeah ... I'm policy lynching you from now on given the way you replaced out.

Congrats to the scum team ... you played well enough to look pretty good compared to Town. Just another example why sitting twiddling your thumbs in LYLO when scum don't even need a lynch to win (No Lynch accomplishes the same thing) is terrible play.

Scum were all Goons. Why you didn't lynch Yates for his "Some Town investigative role is lying" is beyond me.

Nice shot on Benmage Fate. Didn't think you would do that over shooting Vijay the derp-claimer.
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Post Post #1387 (isolation #104) » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:55 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

And always thanks for hosting Jason! Pre-in me to your next Mini Theme please!
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Post Post #1400 (isolation #105) » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:35 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

inte wrote:no daytalk and maybe a roleblocker


Nope. You don't understand balancing a set-up if you think a Vig / Doc only Town combo needs a Roleblocker to offset it ...
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