Mini 1398 - Game Over!

[Bacde]

Vote: iamausername

for a post that feels not genuine

[Bacde]

I think its likely jmo is telling the truth. Drunk or not, its possible to OMGUS on a random vote. I am currently most interested in (suspicious of) iamausername and iceninja

iceninja for saying a vote on him is "not good"

[Bacde]

Sticking on iam for still not seeming genuine. 2nd fos = iceninja

I don't like how iam thinks iceninja is a good wagon.

[Bacde]

Vote: ICENinja

absta seems town

[Bacde]

@Disturbed do you really feel like this post is a good scumtell?

[Bacde]

Sticking on iam for still not seeming genuine. 2nd fos = iceninja

I don't like how iam thinks iceninja is a good wagon.

Vote: ICENinja

absta seems town

@Bacde, what changed between these two posts? iceninja hadnt posted between the two.

Good question. iceninja didn't post but iamausername did.

[Bacde]

I am currently voting for two people. I'll fix that.

Unvote, unvote, Vote: Disturbed_One

I think one of jmo or disturbed is scum, and I'm pretty sure its Disturbed. Disturbed reads to me as "we caught a town doing something stupid, now everybody get him!", and then changes his vote to the most popular wagon when asked more thoroughly about his first read.

Will think more about iamausername and iceninja later. I'm pretty sure at least one of them is scum, but I don't have as strong a feeling as I do for jmo and disturbed.

[Bacde]

@absta what is your read on ICEninja and iamausername?

Also, do you now have a townread on jmo or are you still willing to lynch him as you said previously?

Lets get the lurkers to post please:

Dire_Drenz
Shamrock
RedRabbit
Nachomamma8

These are the names I don't even remember seeing ever.

[Bacde]

Not obvscum. Why would he lie about that as scum?
He's obvscum if someone can prove that he thinks OMGUS is a 'good' scumtell (via meta). I'm just assuming he thinks OMGUS is a good tell.

My logic is that he got a vote on him for OMGUS, and then he tries to defend himself saying that is not OMGUS when it very much so looked like it was. I thought he was lying and town has no reason to lie about an OMGUS. You seem to be implying this is illogical. Mind elaborating?

For the record, I very much so dislike the "I was high when I posted that defense." Because there's very little way to verify that or not, as it is out-of-game information.

Here is an instance of Disturbed being convinced jmo is scum due to weak reasoning. I see jmo as being likely town. I don't really see a scum motivation for him to insist that he was indeed drunk when he voted for Disturbed. I do, however, see a scum motivation behind voting for jmo being derpy and trying to pressure him for it.

The way disturbed and jmo interacted makes me believe that one of them is scum. I see it being more likely that disturbed is the scum. Hence my vote on you, disturbed.

[Bacde]

I never said you directly said that. Even though the quoted portion basically amounts to that. Geez. Regardless of what you said, you are clearly discussing whether or not OMGUS is a scum tell.

I'm honestly getting tired of going back and forth like this. Apparently, my case isn't amazing or else the votes would be flocking to you right now. In fact, I get the sense from some people *coughAbstacough* that they think my case is either misrepresented and/or illogical.

Unvote: JMO
Vote: ICEninja

Here is where Disturbed becomes frustrated by the jmo wagon going nowhere and hopping on to the most popular wagon. He DID vote for ICEninja earlier in the game, which reduces how suspicious this move is. I am still of the opinion that this is scum motivated.

[Bacde]

The fact that Disturbed thinkts Dire_Drenz is a good target for pressure makes me want to not pressure Dire_Drenz. Staying on Disturbed.

[Bacde]

@Dunham I'm not seeing how Mirhawk is scummy.

I AM, however, seeing how Disturbed is scummy.

[Bacde]

Classic Dunhamganger.

This is an interesting interaction between Dun and Mirhawk. Not sure of how I read it yet.

[Bacde]

@absta I'm glad you noticed me. Whats your read on Mir and Dun?

Disturbed still reads as fake to me. Particularly this post:

I didn't even catch that, but you're right, that is a massive contradiction. The lie alone is worth voting him for, but you just added some serious fuel to the case.

He promised he would post more and all we got was "good wagon." He needs to be pressured.

Which reads as "Thank god someone found a reason to vote for Dire_Drenz"

[Bacde]

@absta have you ever played with Dun before? What about my post seems fake?

[Bacde]

@Nacho did you notice that absta is also suspicious of me before you voted me? Because thats what it seems like to me.

[Bacde]

Yep, just as I thought. Nacho was making sure other people suspected me before voting me. That's like scum behavior 101

Vote: Nachomamma8

Now THIS can be considered an OMGUS (by me).

By the way, I was pretty suspicious of you when you misconstrued my argument. There's nothing contradictory about believing jmo was drunk and didn't purposely OMGUS, and also believing that ICEninja was scummy for specifically stating that a vote on him was "not good".

Disturbed is scummy but

this

, this is scum incarnate. Lynch this fool.

[Bacde]

Nachomamma8's reaction is scummy as butt. More votes on Nachomamma plz

[Bacde]

Nachomamma8's reaction is scummy as butt. More votes on Nachomamma plz

How?

His reaction is forced and also consists of just an appeal to emotion ("hahahahaha"). He asks me if I saw that other people voted for Disturbed earlier in the game as though that somehow weakens my case against him. That's just a distraction tactic. I voted Disturbed earlier in this game based on my own case, not on the case of others.

Also note that Disturbed argued that I tried to mislynch him and jmo, when its been pretty clear that I don't read jmo as scum. I don't understand why anybody can think that Disturbed is being genuine when he misrepresents situations such as that.

@ICEninja: What about Nacho besides his townread of you makes you think he is town? He has, until recently, been lurking.

[Bacde]

@Nacho what do you mean "refine my suspicion"? I've been explaining why you are scum, and its ok to have more than one reason. And the two reasons of "wait for suspicion to be ok" and "use someone else's case" pretty much tie together. Did you seriously just admit that you were using absta's case as your own?

I did answer your question, by the way, in my last post.

TBH Lurking isn't a good scumtell but you being overly defensive about it is scummy as balls. I didn't remember that you were V/LA, I just noticed you hadn't posted during my ISO of you.

@Disturbed the way you interacted with jmo seemed like a scumvtown interaction. Show me where I ever suspected jmo and I'll eat my hat.

[Bacde]

And before you misconstrue me again: I asked ICEninja about his read on you and mentioned that you were lurking to point out that there isn't much to townread you, but there is a whole lot to scumread you.

[Bacde]

My using the absta case as my own was not your original point, so don't try to refine your suspicion now; the original accusation was that I made sure other people were suspicious of you before I voted you, and that made me scum. So let's try and address that before you make something else up.

Seems like a slip to me. "My using the absta case as my own"

And I don't see where I skipped around your points? I've been addressing them, so don't act like I'm not. What do you want to talk about how you made sure other people were suspicious before plopping down a vote?

I'm not really interested in defending me being town right now. I'm much more interested in lynching scum you.

[Bacde]

@absta I'm much more interested in hearing the opinions of people I don't expect to lie to me.

[Bacde]

I admit that I was wrong about you lurking. You were actually V/LA.

[Bacde]

-nacho is scum
-nachos posts are really scummy
-i want nacho to be lynched

I'll keep my vote here.

[Bacde]

@absta I'm much more interested in hearing the opinions of people I don't expect to lie to me.

Why would town-you want to (really) know why your post seemed fake when you know it to be genuine? I can see scum wanting that information so they could avoid making the same mistake again (or other reasons), but not town.
Town-you would interrogate Disturbed by instinct IMO.

I'm asking you so you would have to ask yourself and see that it is indeed genuine. I guess I just play differently than you I don't know what else to say to this.

[Bacde]

I am currently voting for two people. I'll fix that.

Unvote, unvote, Vote: Disturbed_One

I think one of jmo or disturbed is scum, and I'm pretty sure its Disturbed. Disturbed reads to me as "we caught a town doing something stupid, now everybody get him!", and then changes his vote to the most popular wagon when asked more thoroughly about his first read.

Will think more about iamausername and iceninja later. I'm pretty sure at least one of them is scum, but I don't have as strong a feeling as I do for jmo and disturbed.

This is the post in question. Disturbed I fossed you and not jmo. What about Nacho seems not scummy to you?

[Bacde]

FOS = finger of suspicion

I'm slowly beginning to think you might actually be new and eager.

[Bacde]

If jmo and dunhamganger hop on this wagon too it practically proves that I'm town. Choo-choo

I see Nacho as a cautious player who is concerned with how other people see him. Thats scumplay in my book. I've already stated my points before so I don't know how I am supposed to reiterate them for you in a bullet-point format. This is a big gut-read for me as well.

@Mirhawk, what about my logic is bad?

[Bacde]

Look, I can already tell this is a losing battle for me, so I'll

Vote: Shamrock

right now. I want the lurkers to post more so everyone can get better reads before the day ends. I'm not done with Nachomamma, but it seems like a lot of people are taking his side because he is more verbally expressive than I am. I still think Nacho is scum. I'll wait until he slips and show everyone.

Someone said that Nachomamma didn't appeal to emotion but was instead "mocking" me. Mocking is a form of appealing to emotion.

I don't know how to explain this, but Nacho is doing a lot of manipulative arguments where he implies something and when I catch him on it, he acts as though he never implied it in the first place. He's undermining me to make me look bad. His mocking me is a perfect example of this. Whenever I get this frustrated with someone they are usually scum. I'll admit I am reacting a bit emotionally to his arguments, because they literally make no sense to me and I get frustrated with arguments like that.

@jmo you and Disturbed had a weird interaction, and so did Dun and Mirhawk. If all of you are willing to hop on to my wagon, it seems to me like scum are jumping on to something easy. However that hasn't happened yet so this argument doesn't hold much weight right now.

@Mirhawk, go ahead and look at his post where he "ripped me apart". A lot of his responses just say undermining things such as "lame" or the instance where he said sarcastically "I bet you wouldn't like anything iamausername would say at this point". He isn't saying anything specific, but instead just being sarcastic and coloring me to look bad. His entire initial argument is based on there somehow being an incongruency between me saying that I thought jmo probably didn't OMGUS on purpose, and saying that there was a problem with ICEninja saying that a vote on him was "not good". If you can show me how those are incongruent I'll eat my hat. Hell, I'll even add my ketchup.

[Bacde]

Hey Guys,

Sorry about being gone for about a day. I can see there's a big ol' bandwagon on me. I'll give you my defense and my reads and my and my claim:

Ok so first of all I want to say that I can tell I'm really bad at this game. The only two games I've played in the past month (since like 6 years ago), I get strung up and bandwagoned d1 and my credibility is destroyed. Thats all the meta there exists on me pretty much. I'm much more used to epicmafia where finding mafia is much less based on finding logical fallacies and more based on gut reads and seeing HOW people play rather than the specifics they say. I can understand you not liking me playing this way (especially with my joke "bulletpoint" case on nachomamma, which is apparently scummy).

It seems like a lot of people here want me lynched because they disagree with my read on nachomamma8. Thats ok. I think Nacho is scum. This is mostly gut, but I gave a lot of my reasonings as well. Take em or leave em. He's playing way too cautiously and underhandedly to be town.

Here are my other reads

Town

Jabberwock
jmo16mla
absta101
Dunhamganger
iamausername
ICEninja
Mcstab
redrabbit
Mirhawk
disturbed_one
shamrock
nachomamma8

Scum

If there's any logical fallacy in there you want to pick out and laugh at me about, go ahead. These are my reads as of right now.

Claim:

I'm a bodyguard. On epicmafia bodyguards have a chance of killing an attacker but in this game the role is shitty and I'll always die instead of the attacker. So I'm pretty much going to die no matter what. I'd rather not be lynched though, but hey thats true for everyone. I'm not going to hammer on myself.

[Bacde]

Town

Jabberwock
jmo16mla
absta101
Dunhamganger
iamausername
ICEninja
Mcstab
redrabbit
Mirhawk
disturbed_one
shamrock
nachomamma8

Scum

Explain these.

At the top are people I read as town, and at the bottom are people I read as scum.

You seem to have completely skipped over where I pointed out that I'm much more interested in the WAY people play, rather than the specifics they say. You know as well as I do that the same behaviors can be understood as town or scum, depending on their circumstances. In this instance you hopping on the me bandwagon is obviously town play.

Dire_Drenz replacing out of the game was a very towny move, and you are way too aggressive and sure of your playstyle to be scum, so you are obviously town. You are also putting in too much effort into this game to be scum. I'm talking about you in the singular.

I know you think you are really good at this game but you can't conjecture about finding all of the scum before we see some flips. Once people flip maf or town, its easier to find the last mafs based on looking at interactions between players. You even pointed out that I play by looking at players' interactions; there's a reason I think that this is the best way to find mafia.

You seem to be happy about voting Shamrock--and the case on him is even more compelling than when I first voted him. Why not move your vote over to him? I don't understand how he can be lurking and still post aggressive things like "this post is horrible" without being scum.

Don't worry, in time I'm sure you'll come around about Nacho. I've already explained why he is scum, but I could do it again if you want.

[Bacde]

Hunting from "interactions" is useless when you don't have solid ground to stand on re: individual alignments. Those "scum v. Town" reads are just excuses to line up mislynches.

I've been saying that I think jmo is town all game. I don't understand why you think I am posturing for mislynches.

@Jabberwock what is your read on Shamrock/Disturbed and the way they just talked?

[Bacde]

bacde is town.
i absolutely hate to say it, but bacde is probably town. in any case, we're not lynching him today so please don't talk about lynching him today.

Unvote, Vote: Shamrock

Massive read change on me (with minimal reasoning) after votes start leaving me? Does this

NOT

look like scum to anybody else?

[Bacde]

We hate to interrupt your tunnel of love on Nacho, Bacde, but what about explaining all your reads like... right now?

Nacho, read on iaaun, please.

You already disagree with a bunch of my reads so I don't understand the purpose of this "assignment"

I already gave you my reads. Howabout we get a list of yours? I think I'd be able to show you where you are mistaken.

Your vote is still on me, does that mean you think I am scum? Who would you think is cleared when I flip town tonight?

[Bacde]

3 Reasons:

The reasoning I use apparently makes me top suspect.
I don't want scum to have an idea of who I'm going to bg tonight.
My reads have changed since I even wrote the list.

Seriously fighting the urge to vote nachomamma

Why are you averse to giving me your list of reads? Its probably for similar reasons as me giving out mine.

What is your read on disturbed/shamrock? And the way they just interacted?

You are making yourself out to be townleader when you are a participant like the rest of us.

[Bacde]

@Jabb - Back off Bacde for today. Question his reads tomorrow.
You look worse for that push.

Our second scumread should be obvious, but we are biding our time since we are waiting on people and we actually want explanations for those reads. Waiting for them to become even more outdated is nonsensical, as then Bacde can use excuses like "it has been so long I forgot" or discuss them with his scumbuddies at night. The time to explain them is now, even if we don't see a need to lynch him Today.

Would you seriously accept me saying "it has been so long I forgot" if I said that tomorrow? Do you think I would say that as scum

or

as town? Do you even think I will be alive tomorrow?

I honestly don't see how outting a list of bulletpoint reasons for my reads would help you in anyway, especially considering that you seem convinced that I am scum. I do see how you not answering my questions hinders discussion, however.

One other reason I don't want to out my reads reasonings is because it establishes dominance, which is something that I am not interested in letting you do. I don't understand why you need to become so dominant over me. If you think I am scum, then push on me for it. Why were you so convinced of the shamrock case but now are holding back?

absta is obviously town for his healthy distrust of you.

@absta, do you see Disturbed_One as town? How do you feel about his potential read change on Nacho?

[Bacde]

^Good post, but you are using WIFOM logic. Why would scum do anything scummy if they know that it is scummy?

[Bacde]

@Jabberwock you tell me that I'm "painting" this as though the way I see our interaction is false. It isn't. This

is

a matter of dominance. However, here are my reads in the hopes you will agree with them tomorrow.

You, absta, and jmo all seem town based on the tone of your posts. jmo is town because he defended himself about something that happened to him IRL with nothing to hold back. He has a very genuine attitude. You are town because of the way Dire_Drenz replaced out and because of your posts like this:

Hi scum.

Which obviously took effort and is of a style I haven't seen coming from scum.

absta is town because he is logical, is not buddying with anyone, and I actually tend to agree with most of his reads, or at least his reasoning.

Dunhamganger to redrabbit I mostly placed in an arbitrary order, these are my null reads for the most part. I tried to order them based on how many scum-like interactions I've seen them have with other players and how hard the player is attempting to scumhunt.

Disturbed_One and Mirhawk have actually changed places for me on the list. Mirhawk definitely changed opinions on me quickly just like Nacho did (seems like a defensive ploy for when I flip town), and Disturbed gained brownie points with me for not just automatically buying whatever Nacho says.

Shamrock just isn't playing in a townlike manner. I voted him initially because he was a lurker and I was hoping to get pressure off of me so I wouldn't have to claim (although I did see your reasons for suspecting him before I voted), but since then he seems unusually aggressive for a person who isn't helping generate discussion.

And of course there is Nachomamma8, this player who was willing to type long "cases" on other players at the beginning of the game, underhandedly cut off arguments that other players make, switch opinions on me last second, and then literally question others about how that seems scummy rather than addressing their points. Note how now he is no longer attempting to build cases but instead types shorter posts as if to check in and say "yup, I'm town guys".

So there you go. I hope you are happy. Also note that the "seeing if someone else suspects before placing a vote" is never a scumtell on its own, its always about

context

.

P-Edit:
@jmo16mla If we decide to use the reasoning of "Oh he can't be scum because he did something scummy which is something scum would never do" we would never be able to find scum!

[Bacde]

Melmond, you mixed up Nacho and Absta on your reads list.

This game is pretty much at a standstill until Sham does some posting.

[Bacde]

@Jabberwock what is your read on Shamrock/Disturbed and the way they just talked? (this was from a few pages ago)

[Bacde]

ok I have to show you guys this right now because this day could end at any second. Just notice how Nacho townreads me here:

bacde is town, ice is town, disturbed is town, jabberwock is town, jmo is town, melmond is town, iamusername is town

Yet is insisting that "other people" dislike my claim here:

1) So, we already have a PR claim that many people have announced that they dislike. I'm sure people wouldn't really like Shamrock's PR claim either, so we would have two scummy-looking claims at the end of Day 1, and approximately three days or so to create a wagon out of nowhere and lynch someone. It will probably be a mislynch that we will look back on and call stupid, but we couldn't stop the lynch because we needed a lynch. So then, with a stupid mislynch and someone killed overnight that is not any of our two PRs, what do we do? Leave them alive another night, let them survive until LyLo? And then figure out which one of them is scum? No, that will probably give us lower chances of winning than if we lynched Shamrock the PR right now >.>

Though it is true that ICENinja is continually stating that he would agree with lynching me, this seems a LOT like Nacho setting up for when I flip town.

Also note in his post that he is pretty much assuming that:
1)Shamrock will claim PR
2)Neither PRs will die at night if Shamrock claims PR
3)Only one of me/Shamrock is scum

Can we

PLEASE

lynch this guy tomorrow? How can he make those three assumptions without outside knowledge? Why is Nacho townreading me yet insisting that I am scummy?

[Bacde]

Nacho, I like how you are finally addressing me as a threat to your scumship. I'm not someone to be "hahahaha'd" lightly away, and you are finally realizing this aren't you? I really like how you are concentrating on your read of me as town (as though that will affect you being scum in any way). You KNOW I have a good case on you, so you finally have to address my points. I KNEW I'd catch you.

OTHER PEOPLE
not me
OTHER PEOPLE

Blaming other people, focussing on having a townread of me. Guess what, having a townread on me won't stop the thunder. Why is it so important for you to emphasize both that YOU specifically have a townread on me, but that other people don't?

1)Shamrock will claim PR

no, i am going through a worst case scenario IF SHAMROCK CLAIMS PR

You didn't say that, and now you are backtracking. Its ok, go ahead and flail loud enough for everyone in the thread to see. You got away the first time but now you are seriously caught.

2)Neither PRs will die at night if Shamrock claims PR

WORST CASE SCENARIO

Again, something you were caught on. I like how you respond to my really good arguments in all caps. It lets me know that I'm hitting close to home.

3)Only one of me/Shamrock is scum

worst case scenario
if both of you are scum, then cool, hammer shamrock now

My vote is on shamrock, no need to tell me to hammer him. Why would you imply that only one out of me/shamrock is scum? You slipped bro, plain and simple.

How can he make those three assumptions without outside knowledge?

Assumption 1: How would I know with outside knowledge? If I told Shamrock to claim PR if he was wagonned? But now I am pushing Shamrock to be hammered now, and not give my scumbuddy with a fakeclaim a chance to claim. Why would I do that?
Assumption 2: How would I know as scum? You're a bodyguard, right? Which means that you could successfully protect someone and die overnight?
Assumption 3: Okay, let's assume that I'm making this assumption. And I am pushing to lynch Shamrock. And I lynch Shamrock. He flips scum. Now you are town and I cannot push you because of my assumption. So...?

you say that I am making assumptions that I am not
you say that I have outside knowledge to be making this assumptions
but that knowledge doesn't help at all

1) Yes, exactly those things. And because you are worried about looking town, which you have been interested in doing the WHOLE GAME. And lets be real, you just slipped that Shamrock is scum.
2) Scum know more about who is going to die at night than town do.
3) Why are you focusing on your belief that I am town, rather than my argument that you are scum? You see, I'm not worried about looking like I'm town. And I really don't give a

[removed]

if you read me as town, because you are scum. You are focusing on the wrong thing. I caught you

slip

bro. How would you know that only 1 out of me and Shamrock are scum?

Why is your defense that "outside knowledge wouldn't help me" rather than "I don't have outside knowlege"? This post reeks of "I'm caught but disagree with your reasoning" mentality.

[Bacde]

I want to hear from Nacho before I out my fosses. I'm surprised that I'm alive right now tbh.

I was on jabberwock.

@Rob13 your reads are pretty bad, especially your read on jmo. He is obviously town. Not being good =/= scum. I can't blame you for fossing me because everyone already has this game.

Post #344 - The first bit is Bacde essentially screaming "Look! Someone's taking me seriously and thinks I'm town! I AM scumhunting! Give me all of them town-points!" Also, this "case" made me want to throw my computer out of a window. If you are

town

(highly unlikely), then you're tunnelling on Nacho because you know that a switch at this point would give you away. If Nacho dies during the night, I strongly suspect Bacde because he's backed himself into a corner with his overly aggressive Nacho attack.

That's a weird thing to say. Why would I care about "giving myself away"? I think you meant scum here. What about my previous case made you want to "throw your computer out of a window"? I appreciate your rhetoric but don't see your logic.

[Bacde]

@Rob13 has JMO had any actions that you consider scummy or is it just this interaction that is throwing you off? Cuz I'll admit I have a townread on JMO so I've been cutting him slack in places such as his WIFOM logic post because I see him as a weaker player. I said "Good Post" because he said he thought nacho was fishy. I still don't see him as scum and he hasn't been trying to lead anyone astray, as a scum player would.

Nacho is acting in a manner that I didn't expect him to be today, and that is giving me a more town view of him. More on this read with his next post. I'm still not convinced but for the time being I can believe that he might be town.

Honestly I was expecting Disturbed to be scum, and I was expecting Nacho to be hardcore pushing on me.

I've noticed a lot of people speculating about my role and I don't really know how to address that. ICENinja calling it a "genius" claim for scum leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Is it also a genius claim for town? I don't really see why you would put a vig on me since it is highly likely I will be dying at night this game.

This post here from yesterday, especially the bolded part, throws me off:

Though I think I may have read too much into each of the cases and agreed with them,

my current scum reads are pretty much level with the current thoughts of the town.

(and Bacde came close to being voted with Jabberwock's case, and probably would have been (well except it would have been a lynch and I want to be more acquainted with this game before that happens) if it wasn't a claim I believe it probably true.

Vote: Cheery Dog

I want to see where this rabbit hole goes.

[Bacde]

You are being weirdly aggressive to my statements. And my question was more rhetorical, but its cool that you answered it.

If you think I am scum I can understand why you would want a vig to kill me, but I don't like your reasoning which results in "we need to nightkill him whether he is town or scum no matter what". That isn't protown logic. You are saying that I am a required lynch this game, when in fact there is a high chance I'll be dying at night no vig necessary.

[Bacde]

@absta -- Good question, we are mostly speaking in hypotheticals right now. Look at this post where ICENinja brought up the subject of a vigilante:

Anyways, while I feel pretty confident about Bacde scum, I'm starting to feel like lynching him tomorrow would be a better idea. Especially if we have a vig, who should aim a bullet in his direction. If Bacde were to die through course of a night action, it would essentially be giving town an extra lynch which would be lovely. This also gives another day for any possible doctor we have to die, which would probably 99% prove Bacde's guilt.

Also, vigs often no-kill, so 1 NK is not indicative of the lack of vigilante. However I was more interested in ICENinja's reasoning, rather than the existence or lackthereof of a vig.

[Bacde]

@absta, a lot of times vigilantes only get one shot, so they don't use it their first night. Also, unless you're reasonably confident about taking your shot, it's risky to shoot night 1 as you're statistically more likely to hit town than scum. I don't believe I've ever drawn a vig role PM, but if I did I probably wouldn't shoot night 1. Especially if I only had 1 shot.

Also Bacde, the only reason I'm saying it will be pro-town for a vig to shoot you

even if you're town

is because we're going to HAVE to lynch you anyway. Night killing a town player > mislynching a town player. This is all rendered moot because I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Something about saying that you

have

to lynch me makes me uneasy. Why am I a necessary lynch?

[Bacde]

Its weird to me that you called Melmond a placeholder vote but now are pushing for it without any further explanation of that case. Why are you now so certain about melmond?

[Bacde]

I will admit that jmo's last post looks emotional and charged and potentially scummy, but I can relate to reacting that way when I previously believed pressure on me to be unfounded in other games. I'm still not seeing him as scum, just frustrated.

@jmo, who do you think is scum? Why?

[Bacde]

God, my head hurts and I doubt it has anything to do with any amount of alcohol consumed last night.

Rob is all over the place, and he very much needs to post a "this is why JMO is scum" post. Or Cheery, if he wants to vote him instead.

Cheery is...confusing me.

I really just don't have much intelligent to say right now. I feel like I need to watch things unfold a little bit because trying to figure out that 3rd scum (yes I'm going to play the rest of the game with the assumption that Bacde is scum, deal with it) is leaving me with neutral reads of just about everyone because just about everyone is both making good points and doing scummy things at the same time.

If you think I'm scum I want to hear what you think of me voting for the same person as you?

[Bacde]

If you think I'm scum I want to hear what you think of me voting for the same person as you?

It probably means he isn't scum. Blah. I'm conflicted about him anyway.

Unvote

.

Even though the only time we have voted/lynched the same person, they were scum?

I'm seeing protown behavior coming from you but you are being oddly guided by your fears instead of your intuitions.

[Bacde]

Note jmo's signature. I think it applies here

[Bacde]

Vote: ICENinja

Since I know I'm going down? Your post feels scummy as balls to me. Remind me again why I'm confirmed scum, or are you just going to refer to other people's cases? I'm beginning to think its not genuine town-fear thats motivating you, but instead a desire to appear you are really town and you really have this strong scumread on me.

[Bacde]

Rob, what do you think of ICENinja's assumption that I am scum, and also his unvote when I was voting for the same person as him?

[Bacde]

Rob is town.

[Bacde]

I don't know. At the time, ICENinja seemed town to me for most of today, but now when I'm rereading I don't like his posts at all. I don't like how he fossed jabberwock for having a townread on him. Something seems less genuine about him now that I'm rereading him. Obviously my vote speaks louder for my opinion than my words do.

Also he had a post where he says "wouldnt it be crazy if scum was nacho/bacde/shamrock" which strikes me as odd and conspiracy theory, which tend to be more antitown posts.

I placed a vote on him early in the game and now I'm revisiting my reasons why.

[Bacde]

Rob, what is your read on iamausername? I have an early vote on him too.

[Bacde]

Your case isn't horrible, but I'm not buying it. For example, jmo being upset with disturbed at page 11 for the initial p1 OMGUS vote case seems town to me, instead of scum. I get more hung-up on calls that I perceive as bad when I'm town.

Also, your case against jmo hinges on the idea that I'm scum and interacting with jmo in a scum manner, so I'm inherently inclined to disagree with your reasoning.

[Bacde]

ICENinja to be honest I agree with you there.

[Bacde]

I'm happy enough with my vote right now.

[Bacde]

ICENinja grasping at straws ITT

[Bacde]

Sorry bud, this ain't my scum game.

Your case on Melmond is weaker than your case on Cheery Dog.

I can tell you are scum because you are so committed to needing to avoid me.

P-Edit: Rob, here is why I don't buy the Melmond case:

-ICENinja's motivations just became highly suspect to me
-Why would Melmond try to stop the Shamrock wagon at L-1 if he was scum? When did he ever actually put effort into stopping the wagon, rather than just trying to gain more information before the inevitable lynch? How are Melmond's non-contributions worse than Cheery Dog's? Why isn't ICENinja voting for Cheery Dog?

[Bacde]

Here's my thoughts:

If I was scum right now, I would be able to use my (obvious) influence over ICENinja's votes to my advantage. Town-ICENinja (who genuinely believes I am scum) would be aware of this, and wouldn't place so much weight into where I am voting. Scum-ICENinja (who knows I am town) would pretend to avoid my votes like the plague, appearing town and also simultaneously being able to move his votes around for construed reasons.

Seriously, I never double-guess myself just because a scumread votes alongside me. That's antitown reasoning.

The fact that ICENinja is using this weird reason to justify his vote on Melmond who undoubtedly has a weaker case against him than Cheery Dog leads me to believe that ICENinja is scum.

[Bacde]

Man I can't wait to see your face when I flip town.

I'm talking to you Melmond, since ICENinja is scum.

[Bacde]

ICENinja if you are town why didn't you suggest that I save you while you simultaneously save me? This sounds like a potential game winning strategy.

I'm unconvinced by your claim.

[Bacde]

Oh and Bacde if you're VT who fake claimed bodyguard it will literally be your fault if town loses and you'll be added to my "will not play with" list.

This is a pretty dramatic appeal to emotion. A lot of people here were already convinced that I was scum, and were just waiting for me to die at night to confirm me. Why are you acting as though this is a win-or-lose situation? Town is already doing pretty well--our first lynch was scum. There's no way we are in a LYLO situation right now.

Or are you a desperate scum looking for some way to pile on mislynches?

[Bacde]

In the meantime, Bacde is desperately trying to spin ICEninja's claim into something that is "omg not true ICEninja is fakeclaiming scum guyz look at it":

I really don't appreciate how you are trying to make me look stupid.

I may not be the best at this game, but I'm not an idiot. ICENinja is NOT town.

[Bacde]

No, I'm telling you this now because a Melmond lynch is a dumb idea

Hes NOT scum--ICENinja is.

I've been laying low today since I know no one is taking me seriously anyway. But I've gotta play to my win condition and let you guys know when you are making a bad choice.

*sprays ketchup all over your claws*

Whats my scum motivation in telling you a bad lynch? Cheery dog is more suspicious than Melmond. ICENinja just tops the charts.

[Bacde]

I don't really know what you expect from me. Howabout since you're the one who makes cases, you just read over melmond and see what I'm talking about. There's no scum motivation in his posts. He's clean, pure, pristine.

[Bacde]

I'm finished reading now. To start off, here's my reads.

Town

:

Jabberwock
Nacho
Iceninja

Null

:

Cheery Dog
jmo16mla
Mirhawk
Dunhamganger
iamausername

Scum

:

Absta
Bacde
Disturbed_One
Shamrock

Disturbed one really looks like scum to me, his pressuring of jmo didn't look good. Jmo didn't exactly look good either though. The bigger thing for me is that he's been moving around his votes to whatever the big wagon is. It just looks like he's trying to get attention away from him and get credit from those who are making other wagons.

Bacde actually looked like town to me up to about page 6, then once he got some pressure, he started making awful posts. After reading the jabberwock post that had his earlier posts, I could definately see the reasoning for them thinking he was scum earlier. Of course the bodyguard claim makes me think there is a possibility of him being town, so I don't want to lynch him today.

I agree that absta does seem like scum, but thats mostly gut. Just a slight scumread.

Shamrock seems scum for the same reason everyone else says. Active lurking.

VOTE: Disturbed_One

More coming, just don't want to lose what I've wrote.

Look at his reads and comments dude, it reeks of honesty. I'd rather lynch anybody but myself more than melmond at this point.

[Bacde]

If we aren't going to lynch ICENinja I'll literally hammer whoever ICENinja is voting for because he's scum and I want to see his reaction to me saying this.

[Bacde]

Even melmond, who is very likely town.

[Bacde]

What is the case on melmond again? He wasn't sure about Shamrock and isn't good enough at scumhunting?

Please

, tons of people are terrible at mafia, myself included.

[Bacde]

Sorry to my team! This was my first time playing as scum on forum mafia--I learned a lot and am ready for the next time I play! I hope you guys had a great time easily finding us

[Bacde]

BTW I am pretty much the reason that my team lost. Not that everyone didn't already know that though.

[Bacde]

Jabberwock definitely intimidated me. Thats probably part of the reason I panicked.

[Bacde]

Bacade i was really suspicious of your constant interaction and buddying with me. Any time i said something, it felt like you always replied. then if someone questioned my towniness, you would back me up.

Was that a plan of yours? or did it just happen?

edit: Tierce, I usually just stick with micros but I'd give a Mini a try. I'l definitely continue playing.

definitely just sorta happened and was not a plan. I really had to back up my not setting up for mislynches with the jmo/disturbed interaction

[Bacde]

awww