Micro 134 (F11) (Game Over!)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vote: Sixty

Suspiciously divisible.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I had a reason but I forgot?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

P-edit: @Tierce: I...was literally just considering that possibility and I guess? But if scum have pre-game chat (and I think that's the case or at least it was during the two completed games I had as scum), wouldn't CES have the foresight to coach her against that kind of distancing given her attitude when signing up for the game?

That sounds silly.

Unvote, vote: Nacho

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sickened and Nauseated already switched their vote.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

He's our lynch for tomorrow. It'd be boring to lynch him today.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I was thinking we'd no-lynch to give scum a fair chance.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If I was hydraing with CES, we'd be the biggest wagon by the time I came home from work.

Pretty sure that only happened because I was doing my customary being-bad-at-Larges.

Scum team is Nacho-Josh by the bye.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Have you ever caught Nachoscum, RM?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hint: alternate possibilities for the name of this hydra were "The Wall" and "Ramble On".

Both of those are better names by the bye. I'd've gone for Death and Taxes myself.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

4) CES, how differently do you think Nacho would be playing if he was town? Also also, do you suspect jason? Also also also, do you believe that Nacho/Josh are the scumteam because they look a smidgen scummier than your other suspects, or because you have no other scumreads? (Also also also also, sorry if that post read like I was blaming you for us getting wagoned in ADwD; it's more that when I hydra with someone who isn't very open or readable, the burden falls upon me to be the barometer of the slot's alignment, and so any slightly awkward or vaguely post I make or period of time where my other head picks up the slack is blown out of proportion.)

I don't know; maybe; yes; I think my version of events is slightly more accurate.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

(Also going to answer the secret question.)

Also, how differently would you be playing if you were the opposite alignment to what you are now?

I don't know.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Care to make a good vote now, Staggered and Stunned?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES why Nacho over Josh, since you think they are both scum?

Suspicion on Nacho came first and going after Josh doesn't sound particularly appealing.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I like Sixty's posts so far, I'd put them down as town. I still don't like Rach to be honest. If I had to pick out a scum-team, from everything I've seen, it would be Rach/Nacho, just based on Rach's indirect defense of Nacho with her vote on Josh. Is there any reason no one else thinks Rach is scum?

Her reasons w.r.t. her choice of Josh over Nacho feel very genuine.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If you suspect jason, then why is a vote on him a bad one? (And "not as good as a Nacho or Josh" vote doesn't count as a reason.)

I think the conclusion here is obvious.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sixty, I was pretty

explicit

implicit

about the fact that I'm unsure about either of CES/Josh/Nacho

/Sotty7/jasonT/D&C

.

Also, this puppy isn't really following a lot of post 131. There wasn't much direction to a lot of that post.

That all seems fine this early in the game though?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No? FT's only vote was for RM who didn't vote for him.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What do you guys think of Sotty and Jason? Preview of coming attractions: I have Jason as slightly leaning town and Sotty as null.

You're not supposed to ruin the punchline in the previews. Totally not going to read it now.

Ready to unleash the dragon yet, Nacho?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Pretty sure that both Nacho and Sotty are town.

Elaborate.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

How much of NY155 have you read, Nacho?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sixty is town, Sotty. There's not really an argument to be made to the contrary.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Have you played with Nacho- or Sottyscum?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I believe Nacho is V/LA atm CES how about we go for Josh here instead. Actually I know he is, Micro 120 just finished and he stated the rest will have to wait til after he is done with V/LA And I do not like lynching someone when they do not have a chance to speak for themselves.

Possibly. I think I'm content to observe right now.

Jabberwocky is an Empire-Tierce hydra. The post here was made by Tierce. The question about Nacho/sottyscum was directed at Josh.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I once wrote a wall in a Newbie-set-up-outside-the-Newbie-queue-game. *-*

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Doesn't really work on account of the third eye.

Wall. (It doesn't look that long due to lack of quotes but it definitely felt long.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

(Not that I don't appreciate the smiley.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I see how it is.

Pretty sure that both Nacho and Sotty are town.

What prompted you to make this post, Josh?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

We should probably lynch Nacho. He's the common link.

Does knowing the reference change your mind?

Not really? Song seems fairly mediocre.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm thinking in Days moreso than days.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Speaking of Nacho, one of the things that sticks out in my mind plus in research is he tends to hard bus his scum buddy One of the reasons I would like to wait til he can speak is to see if he does that. Would help us get both of the scum in one swoop.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also, for the people who give a shit, FT only has one scum game on site which he flaked out of and barely posted, so there goes that whole avenue of discussion.

But still a good sign.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

But still a good sign.

Not exactly. He's flaked from a ton of games as town, too, so it's not really alignment indicative.

Not really the point I was going for. Makes it unlikely he's secretly pretty competent as scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Between...?

{Nacho, Jason} and {Nacho, Josh}. Obviously?

P.S. I don't think you know my scum meta very well.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

and I don't think you hide yourself as well as you think you do
but we'll see about that soon enough, won't we?

Not what I was going for.

CES, what makes you think the scumteam isn't Jason/Josh? Also, thoughts on Rach? On Nacho's most recent post?

#157 and its follow-up make a lot of sense coming from Josh if one of those is his buddy. Call your buddy town but that's a bit iffy, so also call another strong player town at the same time. When pushed, he can't point to a single thing that happened prior to him making that post, despite low post counts for either. (Sotty7-Josh doesn't seem that likely for obvious reasons.)

Rach is fairly townie-looking. Only thing I'd comment on in #262 is that his stance on me is a bit too stancey. #265 has some tints of townieness.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Well, when you put it like that, Whiskers, I'd better vote Sixty instead!

VOTE: Si-

...wait, then I'd lose my spot on your wagon. I want to look better when you flip!

This should count as a vote, you know. It's perfectly unambiguous.

Whiskers, why did you have to make this game boring. Opinions on Nacho, Jason?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Still not so sure about Jason by the way.

As is only appropriate, really. It doesn't really matter.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Ignoring your scum buddy definitely counts as boring. Josh at least gave me things to ponder.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why did your mind go to Jason when I said "your scum buddy"?

I'd like to think I succeeded in not answering your question rather than failing to answer.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No need to be mean, Tierce.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES, you never answered Whiskers' question about Rach. I have the same question, do you mind answering it now?

Nah, it's boring.

Both Whiskers and Josh have committed clear "Nacho is my partner" tells. Just a matter of wrapping up the game now.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Already elaborated on the Josh one in 295; the one you committed was interpreting my "your scum buddy" as referring to Jason despite my Josh-Nacho theory having gotten a good amount of attention.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

=========[]
[]=========

Vote: Whiskers

Nacho next.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sure?

I think a warning would've spoiled the effect, surely.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

but I actually think CES's point in favour of a Josh/Nacho team is a point AGAINST them being partners (granted, calling Nacho and Sotty town isn't as strong a point ruling out Nacho as just calling Nacho town, but I still think weaker scum

hate

going on the record with a town read of a partner while doing nothing to actually

defend

him).

The idea is that Josh was calling Sotty town too precisely because of that.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

We're policy-lynching you! Any objections to that?

Yes. I think my decision was quite reasonable given Whiskers' stated wish for us to "lynch away".

Mind you, whoever is scum clearly thinks we're incompetent braindead morons for

not

having killed us last night even though we were more trusted than Sixty, so fuck you guys.

CES, admit it. That makes you scum, because you definitely don't think of me as a threat, right?

Sixty should never have been lynched, just like you. (I don't really think of people as threats as generally, to answer the second question.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

Pretty sure you're not cool enough to get away with that.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

How certain are you re: your town read of Jason, Sotty?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

Pretty sure you're not cool enough to get away with that.

Cool or otherwise, you still need to die. The very fact you're not dead already speaks volumes.

Those would have to be very thin volumes.

Have you read the entire thread?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Very well. Why CES? In the 15 or so pages of this thread, I noticed the general consensus concerning him went something like this:
CES is a dangerous player.
He has a tendency to laser-eye people. In other words, very accurate if not dead-on D1 reads.
Nobody can read CES, not even the veterans.
CES is really fucking dangerous.
So, given the above points, it stands to reason that if CES is town, then he is a high-priority target for the scum. Nobody can read him, he can read everybody, and everybody knows that he can read everybody. Why, then, is he still alive? Because he is scum, of course. No other reason for his continued existence makes sense.

Right. I'm not magic + since no one can read me, there's nothing preventing me getting mislynched + me quickhammering the cop can't help but look quite bad (even though it's clearly bad luck).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

so there's this giant elephant in the room that has something to do with "CES why did you quickhammer yesterday"
would you like to escort it outside where elephants belong?

I did mention the VT softclaim. Beyond that, it's fairly standard stuff? Didn't see any reason to let him claim if I was willing to lynch him despite one.

Moving onward from general analysis, let's delve into what CES actually did on D1. Lots of idle banter, prodding various folks (e.g. Nacho, RachMarie, etc.), voting Nacho, hammering Whiskers, more idle banter. So, in brief, a whole lot of nothing, minus quickhammering the cop. Granted the cop lynch was pretty well justified, considering how sketchy both Whiskers and Josh were being. However, even in the unlikely event that CES is town, his track record up to this point in the game is justification for a policy lynch, which is why I voted him along with D+C.

Good prodding though. Would you've wanted me to have asked more boring questions? I was feeling quite happy with my play myself up until Whiskers flipped.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sotty's town read of Jason muddies the waters quite a bit w.r.t what the scum team is (Syryana's last post isn't bad either), but it only makes this vote easier:

Vote: Nacho

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm not copying the read but I definitely give it weight.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES, assuming Whiskers had immediately gone, "I'm the cop," after FT's vote, you're saying you would have quickhammered him afterwards?

I'd've still been willing to lynch you but quickhammering a claimed cop seems like quite a bad idea in terms of how it looks if you're wrong.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also, did it occur to you that

other

people might not want to lynch him depending on his claim?

This is an actual serious question, not just rhetorical whining.

Play to win means I'm ethically obligated to not consider your emotions unduly.

>_>
<_<

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sotty-Jason makes a surprising amount of sense. You're going to have to elaborate on that town read, Sotty.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also, he says Sotty/Jason scum team makes sense to him, but his vote is on someone totally different.. Nacho, the very person he was lining up for a lynch with his hammer.

Sotty/you is worth exploring, certainly; that doesn't mean I should vote for either of you. Do you think I was trying to line up lynch while quickhammering as scum?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES Can you explain what makes sense about Jason/Sotty scum team, given Sotty's only real thoughts of me being scum was due to activity being low.. and not the way you are blowing it out. Most of the time she commented on my actual game play.. she saw town in it... her only thoughts of jason-scum was on lack of activity.

You're not bothered by Sotty calling you scum in her last post Yesterday and calling you 90% town Today? The interaction between you and Sotty has been a bit weird and I'm definitely missing something if the two of you are town (and I don't really think you have different alignments).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This is p.scummy though. The wind starts to turn and you want to blend in. Why does it make sense?

I don't think either of those assessments are accurate. I've only seen Nacho push that way.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I've no idea. Depends on who my scumpartner is, how that person interacted with others, how they interacted with me, etc. As for being hard to read making you more likely to be NK'd, it doesn't. However, in the case of CES, being hard-to-read and laser-eyed in his analysis of others makes him a good NK choice. Because even if he gets lynched the next day, he's still had the entire day to watch, analyze, and presumably post his thoughts in twilight or even at L-1. It is therefore in the favor of scum to NK him, preventing him from reading anyone. There are two possibilities for why he's still alive: he's so far off on who the scumteam is that he's not a threat and he's liable to get lynched for that cophammer, OR he's scum himself. I'm still leaning towards scum. Here's why.

Scum need just 2 more mislynches.

So he suspects a Sotty-Jason scumteam but votes Nacho?

I think Sotty-Jason is plausible; I think Nachoscum is plausible. Now why are you parroting Jason's silly talking point?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This is p.scummy though. The wind starts to turn and you want to blend in. Why does it make sense?

I don't think either of those assessments are accurate. I've only seen Nacho push that way.

So you didn't read Mina's posts?

She just asked you an obvious question (about Jason). Then you declined to answer. Then she said she wasn't drunk. I certainly didn't experience that as pushing (mostly because it isn't.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

*It was the appearance of more than one person talking about it. He came in saying it would make sense after Nacho's vote on Jason. SUDDENLY it makes sense. Explain how that is natural.

Nacho suggests a theory. I know my picture is incomplete so I'm somewhat receptive, I consider it and I see the suggestion has merit. What is unnatural here?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I addressed this. CES hammered Whiskers because he could, and because he didn't want any last minute claims to get in the way of his day 1 lynch. Besides, nobody expects him to hammer as scum. It's way too obvious for someone like CES. Hell, he quickhammered the cop, and got 2 and a half votes of heat. If I had quickhammered the cop in any of the games I'd played in the past, I'd have been dead within 5 minutes of the opening bell for Day 2. That CES lives speaks to just how few folks think CESscum would hammer like that, which he is taking outrageous advantage of at the moment.

You realize I also wouldn't in any way need to quickhammer as scum, right? No one would expect me as scum to hammer because gambits are dumb and unnecessary if you can just amble towards the finish line playing it perfectly safe.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

-Why don't you think Sotty-scum/jason-town is possible?
-On D1, you said Nacho was the common link between {Nacho, jason} and {Nacho, Josh}. I asked why it couldn't be jason-Josh, and you answered for why Nacho and Josh were partners. But you never explained both 1) why a Nacho/jason link was likely and 2) why a Josh/jason link was unlikely. Also, why was Josh/Sotty unlikely for "obvious reasons"?
-Please walk me through what your stance on jason was throughout Day 1. Because it seemed all over the place, and it was hard to tell when you were being flippant and when you were joking.
-Details on what you like about Syryana's post?

- Do you really see Sotty7scum turning her back on an easy mislynch in a close game like this? Get me mislynched, mislynch Jason - it's an easy win.
- I never explained those things because those weren't things I believed? Josh, Jason and Nacho all seemed suspicious to me but Josh's suspicion came for a not insignificant part from that "Nacho and Sotty are town but I can't point to any posts apparently that suggested the read" so {Nacho, jason} and {Nacho, josh} were the teams that felt right to me. Josh/Sotty was unlikely because 1) Sotty seemed town (*-*) and 2) he also did mention new stuff about Sotty when pressed; that didn't look like a partner interaction at all.\
- Off the top of my head: Grudging acceptance of Empire's accusation while holding out for an irrational explanation -> suck it, Empire -> post, you fucker -> he kind of is suspiciously inactive + coasting on the L-1 Josh thing.
-It's all pretty intricate and the dude's a newbie. It definitely doesn't feel informed.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

FT, what did/do you think of my hammer?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I also don't see how the way he broke his thought process down relates to alignment?

Because it implies he has a thought process to break down. That's not that likely if he were scum.

I disagree that 383 didn't look informed. Syryana made the basis of her case on CES some WIFOM-filled analysis about how CES is still alive, and that is not something I see coming from a town POV because it means Syryana is assuming CES is scum as a starting point. Town don't assume anything because they are uninformed whereas scum tend to make assumptions about alignments when making their cases because they already know the alignment of everyone.

Newbies convinced of my scummitude is sadly not that uncommon a phenomenon. I care more about his lack of insight into the nightkill motivation.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sotty7: Townread. There was generic townieness to her posts, but what really got me was the frustration she showed when people started dismissing or shitting on her reads. I think it's super hard to formulate something like that when scum; granted I don't know Sotty well enough to meta that out of her, but it's just really hard to manufacture something like that.

See her title.

You don't have to worry about Dazzled and Blinded as their townieness is beyond questioning. Empire doesn't even have a scum game.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

FT, still think Syryana is scum?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You don't sound at all apologetic.

I may be regretting this hydra name. But I mean...considering we're already called

Dazed and Confused

, aren't we really already mocking ourselves? Why do the work of coming up with parody names that are more flattering than our actual ones?

I'm just doing D&D references, for the record.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

- I never explained those things because those weren't things I believed? Josh, Jason and Nacho all seemed suspicious to me but Josh's suspicion came for a not insignificant part from that "Nacho and Sotty are town but I can't point to any posts apparently that suggested the read" so {Nacho, jason} and {Nacho, josh} were the teams that felt right to me. Josh/Sotty was unlikely because 1) Sotty seemed town (*-*) and 2) he also did mention new stuff about Sotty when pressed; that didn't look like a partner interaction at all.\

Um, from page 2...

I may just be nitpicking over stupid stuff right now, but I'm missing something. You thought Josh was significantly less likely to be scum if Nacho wasn't scum? I'm not sure I see why, considering you suspected him before he did something that you thought was a Nacho buddy tell. And where does jason fit into this?

I have lower standards on page 3. I think mostly what's happening here is that you're assigning my original "common link" too much weight; I mean, it definitely reflects my thought processes at the time but I was only being semi-serious.

CES, talk to me about Nacho. Can you sell me on this lynch, or alternately, just explain what you see there? I'm looking for an epiphany on him. Your vote was on him since really early in the game, when virtually everything he'd posted was null, IMO. I'm rereading, and I kind of feel like the whole case on Nacho is just PoE and burden of proficiency/him not looking town enough. Empire thinks he's being lazy and not giving a shit, but I'm not sure I see anything I can confidently call scummy.

I don't think you're going to have an epiphany. It is a lot of the case, admittedly. Part of it is what Empire's saying too, although I'd describe it more as a Monday-type vibe of not really engaging with the game. I'd point to the CESmeta post too, although that felt more like posturing.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What I don't like about this is, 1) he didn't have a scumread on me until after I started calling him scum

He didn't have a read on anyone but me out there before you called him scum; but there is stuff in #383 that he's unlikely to have made up after. There's a reactive element to it but given the rest I'd have a difficult time spinning that as scummy.

Your reasoning here seems quite mechanical. Why haven't you asked Syryana why he voted Jason?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

That's not reading as town to me. As for not asking the question, I'm implicitly asking it now, really. It didn't stand out to me initially.

what do you think the NK motivation was?

Sixty and Dazzled and Charmed both seemed like obvious enough kills. I don't think speculating on the nightkill is particularly fruitful when there are no strong reasons to favour one or the other; the reason could easily be something silly or idiosynchratic.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sixty and Dazzled and Charmed both seemed like obvious enough kills. I don't think speculating on the nightkill is particularly fruitful when there are no strong reasons to favour one or the other; the reason could easily be something silly or idiosynchratic.

So why did you ask in the first place? I mean if there is no point specualting?

I didn't ask...

More tomorrow when I have actual time and/or space.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why did you mention Nacho then when you decided to vote for me?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

gee, why would I mention the leading wagon at the time of the vote?

That's a good question. You should answer it. I thought you were leaning my way for a while when you made that vote; if there was an issue that was worth going into, it'd be that of timing. Mentioning Nacho just looks like you felt the need to justify the vote.

@D&C, I'm more inclined to believe that Sotty was simply wrong at this point.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vote: FT

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

FT makes most sense as Nachobuddy. I've certainly implied as much; not much reason to outright state without a Nachoflip.

I don't think a quicklynch is something to worry about with 4 to lynch and I don't really see how my one vote to start is supposed to be engineering such.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yeah, don't do stuff like that, Syryana.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What you did w.r.t. to Jason.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What did you read before getting your role PM?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

As in, what were my reads before getting my role PM, or how far into the thread did I get before reading my role PM? Not sure which one you're asking.

I was asking the latter but you can also answer the former.

(Empire is V/LA by the bye.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

FT, how well do you think you played in that linked scum game?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I don't think you're really looking at the internal logic of what Syryana was doing.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Same question for you as I asked FT.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Let's lynch FT?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The main thing is PoE, Syryana. But his push on you has also seemed uninterested and mechanical. See e.g. #482.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It honestly surprised me, I had him lower on the scum reads. If he flipped scum, I expected goon. So it was a great blow to scum to get their RB taken out.

Is that something you explicitly thought about? Whether people made sense as RB or Goon?

CES, did you read through my scum game? What about Syryana's scum game?

Yarr. I mostly drew the same conclusions from reading them - competent but readable; if it's not Jason, scum is playing a better scum game than I'd expect from them. Syryana's scum style seems more distinctive though and your scum play being worse seems more plausible given you had to deal with Monkeyman.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You think you can get me lynched Tomorrow if I'm scum?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

We're not lynching Syryana.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Still want FT lynched.

Day is running down and I think the consensus opinion here is clear.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Well, I guess I don't have to say anything then.

(That hammer post could've used an explicit mjollnir reference though.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Well played, everyone.

CES this was the most obvtown game I think I've ever seen you play.

And it only took me quickhammering a cop. (Good read though.)