Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[Elyse]

Hi everyone!

Whatever

FoS: Amrun, since suggesting such things usually comes from scum going for cred.

Is this a serious FoS?

[Elyse]

I don't know, do you think it's serious?

That's why I asked you. What's with not answering questions?

[Elyse]

Ok, that's all I needed.

[Elyse]

Elyse, what is your opinion on Amrun's suggestions?
Do you agree we should fake-vote etc?

I agree with her suggestions.

@Elyse: If it was serious what does it mean about wisdom. If it was not serious, does it lead you to having a different kind of read on wisdom?

In my first game onsite, I played with Wisdom and he was very polite and intelligent, and he seems very different here. (Not saying you're dumb and rude, just the FoS on Amrun was bad) It's surprising to me that attacked her with so much venom when his argument wasn't strong. But, his meta could have changed/he felt angry that Amrun called him inexperienced, so it's not really alignment-telling. I don't see him as town, like Amrun does, though.

@AP
Why do you agree with Wisdom's FoS?

P-edit: I still don't see how Amrun's town-minded suggestion makes her scum. That's like saying "Elyse did something townie" "Scum wants to look townie" "Elyse is scum". I'm just not following the logic.

P-p-edit: Relax. I'm here. I had to run to the store.

[Elyse]

She did not do something townie. Scum are the ones who will try to suggest such things to gain early towncred. I know I definitely would as scum.

Re: your "meta change" thing; first of all this is not The Road to Rome, second of all I don't play the same in all my games, and third of all there has been a considerate amount of time since then (this you noted)

When you say that you don't see me as town, do you see me as scum?

No, I don't see you as scum. I don't see you as anything yet.

[Elyse]

I agree with Venmar's post. Here's a townread for you!

And...
FoS: Venmar since this post just now gave me mad scumvibes.
What AP said about experience etc. weren't even part of his case. You're trying too hard to shoot it down.
And you're asking "Why does it matter" on a "Why does it matter" post? Wtf?

Are you just going to FoS anyone that disagrees with you?

And asking "Why does it matter?" when AP included vote tags in his case against is very valid. It seemed like he was bumping up his case to make it seem more solid that it really was.

To be fair, Wisdom was coming off very arrogant and very hard to deal and talk with, so the outrage is very understandable because I can relate.

Tell me this;
Let's say I am arrogant and hard to deal with.
Isn't it a great opportunity for scum to

fake

outrage on such a player? If they don't fake it on such a player, where will they fake it? On players that it would be less believable?

I find this similar to your previous argument to Amrun scum as well. "Amrun is outraged." "Town get outraged." "Scum want to seem town." "Amrun is faking outrage." Why isn't she just a little annoyed with your tone? Why is she faking it?

It was a very bad thing to say? So you agree that more experience necessarily means more skill? If that's so we should all just sheep the player with the oldest joindate and do nothing else, yes?

This is just a really bad conclusion. Doesn't make any sense with what Venmar said.

P-edit: NO CHALLENGES YET.

[Elyse]

Are you just going to FoS anyone that disagrees with you?

Nope; there are other ways to disagree than call me scum and hard-defend Amrun, with points that don't even make sense.
But since we're on the subject:

I didn't call you scum or hard defend Amrun. So try again?

I agree with Venmar's post. Here's a townread for you!

Why do you townread everyone that you agree with?

I don't. I only have a townread on Venmar, and it's because he said exactly what I was thinking, and I know it's coming from a town perspective. Considering you FoS'd Amrun, me, and Venmar, and I only townread Venmar, your point is invalid.

And asking "Why does it matter?" when AP included vote tags in his case against is very valid. It seemed like he was bumping up his case to make it seem more solid that it really was.

What? AP asked Amrun what do votetags matter (just like I said that they're useless exactly after she made her first post), and Venmar quoted his "why does it matter" and asked why does it matter. I don't understand that.

AP made it seem like Amrun was scummy for suggesting we format votes a certain way. Venmar asked what that mattered.

I find this similar to your previous argument to Amrun scum as well. "Amrun is outraged." "Town get outraged." "Scum want to seem town." "Amrun is faking outrage." Why isn't she just a little annoyed with your tone? Why is she faking it?

It has already been explained; she changed tones too quickly, she went from noob to scum to town too quickly, and her "outrage" did not even seem like an outrage, but more like frustration. The point is that she cannot be called town for that, as scum could easily fake it in such a case.

I know she's not town for that, but she's also not scum for it, which is what you were pushing for her suggestions at the beginning.

This is just a really bad conclusion. Doesn't make any sense with what Venmar said.

You need to reread then, because that's exactly what Venmar said. Read my post after that too.

Venmar said that just because a player is experienced does not mean you should sheep them.

[Elyse]

@Amrun
There are four scum. It says so in the first few posts, unless I read it wrong.

[Elyse]

I don't. I only have a townread on Venmar, and it's because he said exactly what I was thinking, and I know it's coming from a town perspective. Considering you FoS'd Amrun, me, and Venmar, and I only townread Venmar, your point is invalid.

Fair, but keep in mind that scum can express "town perspective" opinions too.

So how am I supposed to get a townread? Basically you are saying that scum tries to look town so anything townie can be scummy.

Everything else isn't really worth arguing over so I'm just going to drop it.

I think my number one scumread is AP right now. His case on Amrun was bad and he's trying to be overly persuasive about it.

Wisdom is tough to read. He posts so much and argues with everyone. I don't see scum acting like that straight out of the gate, but there are also some serious flaws in his logic.

[Elyse]

Townread on mollie. I don't really see 181 coming from scum.

[Elyse]

SafetyDance is obvtown.

[Elyse]

My obvtown read on SD was a joke since he hasn't posted content.

Sorry I thought you guys would get that.

@enomis
I already said that I found it strange that Wisdom attacked Amrun with so much venom. If it wasn't serious it would lie more with the meta I had on him. But apparently his meta is different.

I don't like how you're making generalizations about me asking useless questions and posting useless comments. The only "useless" one I can think of is my joke read on SD.

[Elyse]

Majiffy you read me as scum in every game so I'm not really surprised there but I don't see how I'm trying to blend in.

[Elyse]

I asked the question to see if his play lined up with his meta.

[Elyse]

Oh yeah I forgot you were in that game. You were a hydra right?

And I have more than a flicker of original thought. I questioned Wisdom using meta, I pushed on Wisdom's response to Venmar, I explained why Wisdom is hard to read, I have a scumread on AP, and a townread on Mollie.

P-edit: Sorry I'm not very funny.

@enomis
I don't know what you want me to say. That's why I asked the question. Sorry if it doesn't fit with your scum lean on me or whatever you're conjuring up.

[Elyse]

No they weren't.

I'm going to bed.

[Elyse]

@enomis
I don't know what you want me to say. That's why I asked the question. Sorry if it doesn't fit with your scum lean on me or whatever you're conjuring up.

Ok, one last thing: I feel that was a bit uncalled for.
Are you calling enomis scum for grilling you? Why do you think he's conjuring up stuff? He never directly stated a scumlean on you, why do you interpret his questioning as such? Why do you feel so obviously theatened?

I don't see how this was uncalled for. I'm not calling enomis scum. I can sense that he has the beginning of a scum lean on me, by saying I am asking useless questions and posting useless comments. This isn't true, however. When I explained why one of my questions wasn't useless, he just said he didn't buy, prompting what I said. I feel like he's a little angry his scum lean isn't panning out. And your last question is a loaded question if I've ever seen one. I don't feel threatened.

Concerning my Mollie townread, I can't really explain why I find that post hard to come from scum. I think it's because she's using her common tells and openly stating that she wants to consult with someone else. I dunno, it just gives me townvibes. I don't think scum would do that.

Also, your "scumslip" on Amrun is ridiculous.

@Majiffy
If you can find someone who mentioned all of the things I mentioned in my post before me, then I'll concede to your point, but it's not true. I did bring up those things first.

[Elyse]

Also, your "scumslip" on Amrun is ridiculous.

You're probably right about that, but it can't hurt to try and scrutinize the supposed townslip either.
Do you agree with Wisdom that it is a townslip? What do you make of the mistake?

Amrun, could you provide an explanation for this mistake yourself? Why haven't you earlier?

I don't know what to make of it. Amrun certainly could have planted it, so I'm pretty much disregarding it for now.

P-edit:
It just tells me that enomis thought he could push something against me, but I'm refuting what he's saying. I can't tell if it's a scum or town thing, because he could be frustrated as both alignments.

[Elyse]

@Mollie
Yeah it was that large mainstream game

[Elyse]

I don't like how after Mollie and Grim's back-and-forth, Grim was like "But I don't even have a scumread on you. You asked me to say why you were scummy." (Yes eventually he developed a scumread) I can't really explain why but this is just something that seems very scummy to me. It's like he had this whole drawn out conversation with Mollie, knowing she thought she was a scumread of his, and then at the end, he was like "I never said that!" It reads as very insincere to me but I can't explain it that well.

[Elyse]

Why didn't you just tell her that you didn't have a scumread on her?

I'll try to make an analogy because you make good ones that help most of the time. Mine will probably suck but oh well.

You mention something about (hm, a controversial topic. let's say abortion). You talk about someone you know getting an abortion and why you don't think it was a good decision. Mollie then asks why you think abortion is bad. You get into this whole argument about it and then you say "I don't think abortion is bad, you just asked me to say the points against it." It would have been much easier if you just said, "I don't think abortion is bad, it was just the wrong decision for the person I know" or something like that.

It wasted time and made you look like you were scumreading Mollie when you weren't. So there wasn't even a real point to the argument. Does that make sense?

[Elyse]

I could definitely see Majiffy doing this as scum.

Right now I don't want to lynch Mollie and probably not Grim either.

[Elyse]

@AP
Here's a question I feel really, really stupid asking:
Could you explain the word posture?

I've seen people use it on this site in different ways. Someone once said I was "posturing" on a wagon, but I'm not sure if you're asking for my read on SC or are being sarcastic.

[Elyse]

I have stumbled out of the haze of the college-level drunkfest and will be getting to this game tonight. Mollie has made me aware of the vote count as of yesterday afternoon and I feel confident that Coug is our scum. Amrun, pull your head out of your indignant ass and vote with me.

UNVOTE: Grimgroove
VOTE: StrangerCoug

Why isn't Grim scum anymore?

[Elyse]

^^That post is giving me scum-induced seizures.

I hate everything about it.

[Elyse]

He probably wants Grim to keep posting just to know his thoughts as he reads along. I don't see how this is so weird.

I don't like Wisdom even mentioning that Grim might have made it up. (Really?)

I really don't like Grim trying to push it as scummy AtE when it's probably coming from town.

VOTE: Grimgroove

[Elyse]

This whole QT thing is the only thing that's bothering me about Coug.

It's a strange request, but I see it coming from town more than scum. And Grim trying to portray it as AtE is really scummy.

Coug's posts are pretty terrible though, and he is scummy. It's just the QT thing that bugs me...

[Elyse]

elyse that doesn't even make sense. his posts are "terrible and scummy" but the only that bugs you about him is the qt thing? what about his terrible and scummy posts? his whole iso is crappy. vote him.

How does that not make sense?

[Elyse]

Fuck you, honestly. I don't know why v/la is such a fucking difficult concept for people to grasp. Maybe if I was irresponsible and just didn't post for over a week people would fucking understand.

Trying to paint my infrequent phone posting as scummy when it's public knowledge I'm not around for this time frame is scummy as fuck.

Where did this come from? I didn't see anyone saying you were scummy for infrequent posting (I might have missed it). You aren't even posting infrequently.

@Wisdom
Amrun is probably town.

I think it's Grim/NS/AP/{Safety Dance, enomis}

[Elyse]

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[Elyse]

I've played with AP once and he was much more active and persuasive in the other game. He was always scumhunting and pushed good, legit cases and he was confident. He was town. Here, I'm seeing the opposite, on top of what Amrun said.

But why are you against voting AP? Do you have a townread on him or something? Amrun posted a good list of reasons to vote AP, yet you ask if it is just how he plays and continue voting NS who hasn't done anything. Why?

[Elyse]

By everyone, you mean me, Majiffy, and Amrun, all of whom had scumreads on AP before.

[Elyse]

@Grim
You said "AP has been wrong all game." Can you show where he's wrong?

[Elyse]

Incoming wall:
Oh boy here we go.

Anything he said about me was wrong.

That's it? So when you said "Everything he said is wrong" you were just referring to his reads on you?

I think I'll just be sheeping her. I'm guessing she's pretty good at this game, so yeah, no harm done.

You need to relax. Just because you were wrong once doesn't mean you're some terrible player who can't trust his own reads. Come on. And just because you think mollie is town doesn't mean she is right. I mean you were wrong. Aren't you town?

The more I think about it, the more post 600 makes you town actually. I don't think scum would consciously try to use this as an argument thinking it would work, so I see it as town blurting out hypotheses without a filter. Posting without such a filter is actually very townish.

That's better.

So, what you said about AP; do you think that "being wrong" was scummy? And what exactly was he wrong about?

The "That's better" from Wisdom in this exchange bothers me.

Right now I think: enomis/AP/Amrun/{Safety or Elyse} with Safety more likely than Elyse.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AP

Keep this in mind. Wisdom scumteam #1 is enomis/AP/Amrun/{Safety or Elyse} with Safety more likely than Elyse.

I've played with AP once and he was much more active and persuasive in the other game. He was always scumhunting and pushed good, legit cases and he was confident. He was town. Here, I'm seeing the opposite, on top of what Amrun said.

But why are you against voting AP? Do you have a townread on him or something? Amrun posted a good list of reasons to vote AP, yet you ask if it is just how he plays and continue voting NS who hasn't done anything. Why?

I don't find the reasoning very convinving in this case. Ok, I agree with the fact that his case on me was pretty bad, but to me he did come off as active and trying to be persuasive, showing confidence. It is not the opposite of what Elyse descirbes as his townplay.

Um no? He's been lurking through the game, no one bought his case, and he wasn't confident in it. What are you talking about?

@Grim
You said "AP has been wrong all game." Can you show where he's wrong?

I wonder why she asked me this question, considering she earlier said herself his cases are not good and not legit.

I asked this question because it looked like it could be a scumslip. If you said, "he was wrong with his reads on x, y, and z" or something like that, I would vote you in a heartbeat.
Also,

My strongest scumreads right now are Amrun, Elyse and AngryPidgeon. Those three are followed by SafetyDance and enomis.

So Grim's scumreads are Amrun, Elyse, AP, {Safety, enomis}
and

Nobody Special I think is town, his last post seemed genuine enough to me. Instead of pointing to a random other person in the other lynchpool and try tog et this person lynched instead of himself,h e admits to not having any clear reads. I can relate.

NS is town.
Now AP comes in and says this:

and I'd rather lynch NS than Venmar.

And suddenly,

VOTE: Nobody Special

Even if only to spur him towards more content. He can't stay in hiding forever.

Don't have an especially strong townread on any of the four anymore. AngryPidgeon is my preference, but not enough to put him at L-1 already. Elyse and amrun on his wagon aren't exactly reassuring either.

Bam. Slaps a vote on NS. Wtf? He goes with his scumread to possibly lead a wagon on someone he had a townread on.

If he doesn't provide content he's the scummiest of the bunch and should be lynched for it.

As soon as he does provide content, I'll evaluate him based on that.

I don't see how it kills "the purpose". The purpose is to make him deliver content. Tell me how my vote or my reasons for it are standing in the way of achieving this?

But you just had a townread on him, and listed five players that are possible scum. Now he trumps them all?

AP's self-vote followed by rage posting just shows how he's bluffing and is desperate to stay alive. And the sad part is that Wisdom bites! AP basically reverses his scumread on him by raging. Impressive.

I've played with AP once and he was much more active and persuasive in the other game.

Up until I lurked my ass off for significant portions of it.

Also that game had a lot less posts and I'm in about 2 more games than I was in that one. But no keep on with this SHITMETA. Elyse is probably scum with Amrun.

Oh, sorry. I guess I should ignore meta because it doesn't make you look good.

By everyone, you mean me, Majiffy, and Amrun, all of whom had scumreads on AP before.

Yes, assert that you had the read previously. Continue focusing on your appearance without actually doing anything.

How is that focusing on my appearance? Wisdom said that he didn't like everyone voting you right away. I told him it was three people who already scumread you, and he was over exaggerating. But nice misrep.

UNVOTE:

How does

enomis/Amrun/Elyse/Safety sound to you?

Ok what the fuck is this? You unvote your strongest? (maybe not, but definitely in this pool) scumread and ask him about another scumteam? Are you negotiating with him or something? I don't get this at all.

^ But then WHO TO LYNCH TODAY.

But the fact you are focused on the big picture is just more proof you are town.

I'd buy that list, but I really think GG belongs in it instead of Safety.

But Safety isn't mindlessly raging like Im used to him doing as town, so

And then AP buddies Wisdom by saying he looks town for focusing on the big picture. That's just dumb. Everyone has at least four possible scum that include people out of the lynchpool. But the buddying worked, so bravo.

I'd lynch Venmar if he's going to continue being useless all game. Or NS because equally he will most likely be lurking all game. But both of those are more policy lynches than anything.

So not AP? Now he's town after spamming the thread, self-voting, and raging at people who dare call him scum?

@Grim
You said "AP has been wrong all game." Can you show where he's wrong?

The more I read, the more I want to lynch Elyse for making wishywashy posts and interpreting what limited meta she has of me to fit her read of me. Also this ^ is just scum fitting in. GG was clearly just AtEing about my read on him and this question is way too missing-the-forest-for-the-trees to likely come from town.

If I interpreted your meta to make you look town, you would have no problem with it. And I explained why I asked Grim that question, and no it wasn't obvious he was AtEing about your read on him.

VOTE: venmar

And it is complete, AP gets Wisdom to vote someone he doesn't think is scum.

Wisdom's retardedly opportunistic, waffly, and flip-floppy stance on me is so painfully scummy

Please show us where I have been opportunistic or waffly. As for my stance on you, I have made it completely clear.

Hm. Maybe it's because you had him as a townread and are now voting him?

Venmar's 928 is pretty obvtown and genuine.

If Wisdom truly thinks I am the typical player who tunnels him the first game that they play with him, he should have little reason to be voting for me for similar reasons. Right now, Wisdom is only voting for me because he thinks I am being retarded and useless. Sorry Wisdom, that is such a classic discredit case that I think I will call you out on it.

Right now I am voting you because the pool you created is bad. My four scumreads are outside it. I have to compromise for you or NS, and I'm feeling that you'll be less useful than NS. I don't think you are scum, because scum wouldn't be that stupid to expect to get me lynched like that, but you need to die because you don't show any interest in actual scumhunting.

Do you want to prove that wrong? Tell me what you think of enomis, Amrun, Elyse, Safety. Use some of that effort you used to make that Wisdom-lynch campaign and actually scumhunt.

Oh really? Your four scumreads are outside? What happened to?

Right now I think: enomis/AP/Amrun/{Safety or Elyse} with Safety more likely than Elyse.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AP

Oh right. AP raged, spammed, self-voted, and buddied the fuck out of you. And for you to say that NS is going to be more useful than Venmar is just retarded. Venmar is bleeding town and you're just too stubborn to admit it because he thinks you're scum.

Wisdom just argues for the sake of arguing, he is super hyper defensive about himself and goes to a length to spam post in his defence. This is scummy since he clogs up the thread on purpose. He argues just for the sake of arguing which is scummy and anti-town, since town should have no town motivation to clog up the thread.

Here's a typical example of why Venmar can't be scum. Scum can't push this bullshit for a serious accusation. Anyone's simple 1 minute search will tell them that Wisdom is hyperactive regardless of alignment and could care less if the thread gets "clogged up" or not.

How the hell is your townread on AP so strong that you'd rather lynch someone who "can't be scum"?

That means nothing. Scum can reflect townish thoughts too. They want to look town, after all. I want you to explain to me what is townish about her posts.

Alright, so before I was a PoE scumread (fifth in the list actually) and now you're trying to discredit someone's townread on me? It's definitely not because AP is trying to get people to scumread me, right?

Alright so basically Wisdom is either easily misled town or scum trying to save his buddy AP. I'm thinking the former.

And Grim is scummy af.

So it's probably AP/enomis/Grim/Safety. That's my bet.
Other possibilities are AP/enomis/NS/Wisdom, AP/enomis/Safety/Wisdom or AP/NS/Safety/Wisdom.

[Elyse]

AP's self-vote followed by rage posting just shows how he's bluffing and is desperate to stay alive.

Or maybe Im actually townposting and pissed off that Venmar threw me into a lynchpool that I sidagree with before I could actually catch up in the clusterfuck.

I can see that you're pissed off, and you have every right to be, but why is that townposting?

Damn it Elyse looks town with that post now.
Who the fuck is scum in this game

@Elyse
About your point about Venmar; I refuse to see how someone who does absolutely nothing other than spam "LETS LYNCH WISDOM" is helpful for the town.
About AP I think that his posts were genuine. I did have a scumread on him previously, but the quick votes on him and his recent votes make me think he's town.

It's more helpful than someone who doesn't post anything. But I do agree that Venmar needs to stop tunneling on you.
And concerning AP, I already explained the quick votes on him weren't scummy. There were only three and all three people already had a scumread on him. I don't see his posts as genuine, but that's just me. I think he's a good enough player to fake it, but then again, he might not be.

[Elyse]

If I interpreted your meta to make you look town, you would have no problem with it

Oh boy a hypothetical accusation against me that is completely unprovable either way at this point.

I'll give you that one.

And then AP buddies Wisdom by saying he looks town for focusing on the big picture. That's just dumb

I've been calling Wisdom town since all game. So this point is a blatant construe of my intentions.

I know. I'm not saying you changed your read on him. But just adding he was town for looking at the big picture is bullshit and you know it.

So not AP? Now he's town after spamming the thread, self-voting, and raging at people who dare call him scum?

Frankly, yes. Yes I am.

Im not always town but when I am its obvious as shit....

when Im not lurking : )

Theres a reason I've only ever been Mislynched twice. Im not going to 3 today.

I'm not seeing it.

How is that focusing on my appearance?

You are asserting that you had a scumread on me to show consistency.

This is a minor point since I understand its a response to wisdom, but you are stating something without really concluding anything and I dislike that you are drawing attention to the fact you are being consistent when that really isnt relevant. Like...why not ask Wisdom to clarify that opinion?

I wasn't drawing attention to the fact that

I

was consistent. I would've pointed that out had it been any three players. It just happened that I was one of them.

P-edit: Well obviously you're not.

[Elyse]

I'm pretty sure he's scum at this point. If he was town he would be like "I was town you fucking moron! wah wah wah"

[Elyse]

Yeah AP is still scum. Wisdom summed it up pretty well. Also, AP has only been mislynched twice so I would expect more rage.

[Elyse]

Nope.

But I think the random switch onto me at the end is a WIFOM attempt. He never posted a solid case but since he's still alive I guess we'll let him.

[Elyse]

Can anyone see a post by me regarding AP's Venmar vote because I pressed submit but idk where it went.

[Elyse]

Found it. Thanks Majiffy!

I think the Venmar vote after Venmar voted is very telling. Why would AP place a vote on someone if he thought he was hammered? And why wouldn't he vote me, since I'm apparently in my own scum tier.

[Elyse]

I'm at work posting from my phone but I'm fucking pissed off at AP.

The fact you had to bring your real life into this is fucking messed up. I found out my grandmother died last night. Did I mention that? No. Why? Because I'm not a whiny baby and I can play this game by setting aside my personal life.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nobody Special

enomis and Safety are basically conf scum to me. NS/Grim doesn't make sense together but Im pretty sure one is scum.

[Elyse]

Shut up I don't even read your posts half the time

[Elyse]

Yeah because apparently the best strategy for me as scum would be to sheep you. Just stop.

[Elyse]

Will explain myself when I get home around 4. Sorry AP. just a whirlwind of emotions for me right now.

[Elyse]

Yeah because apparently the best strategy for me as scum would be to sheep you. Just stop.

Then why are you doing it? I see no town motivation for it.

I'm not sheeping you.

enomis and Safety are basically conf scum to me.

Ok since you claim you're not just echoing me.
Can you explain why they are confscum to you?

PoE. I have townreads on Amrun, Majiffy, Mollie, you, and AP.

@Grim
Explain your vote on NS after AP voted him.

Also you are being so wishy-washy with your NS stance. One minute he's town, the next he's scum, the next he's a compromise lynch, the next he's useless. Remember what I said about NS/Grim not working? Yeah, that's out the window since he's obviously just going with the popular opinion.

NS/Grim/Safety/enomis

There you have it folks.

[Elyse]

Yes. PoE is strong.

And if NS flips town then idk I'll have to reevaluate my reads.

[Elyse]

No. You're acting like NS flipped town. He didn't.

[Elyse]

If NS flips town then YOU are the fourth scum. You're acting like you know he'll flip town and are setting me up.

[Elyse]

Why?

[Elyse]

I'll repeat my question. Why is NS flipping town?

[Elyse]

So PoE?

[Elyse]

K that's my point bye

[Elyse]

I don't see any point.. If you wanted to insinuate that I'm wrong for accusing you about PoE because I use it myself, it's bullshit because I don't call people confscum because of PoE. I expect someone to flip town because of PoE. Complely different.
bye!

No it's not. How is determining someone's alignment using PoE scummy in any way? It's not. So stop acting like it is.

@Grim
WHY DID YOU VOTE NS AFTER AP DID? You were previously voting AP, a scumread of yours, and then he voted NS. Why did you join your scumread on someone you said was town? That literally makes no sense to me. Why? 1. I don't vote townreads. 2. I don't vote with my scumreads. 3. I don't listen to who my scumreads tell me to vote for.

Yet you did all of that.

[Elyse]

No it's not. And enomis and SD have done nothing to make them look town either. It's not like "Well this was good, but PoE says they're still scum."

P-edit: I gtg but yes I'll explain it later.

[Elyse]

VOTE: SafetyDance

Idc if it's him or enomis, but SD said something in the QT that might make his lynch better.

He was like "Is it even possible for two scum to share a QT?" so if he's scum it might mean that no two scum are teammates.

[Elyse]

I can quote the QT right

[Elyse]

Ok.

So I was like "I'll assume you're town and I'll post my thoughts because I'm not going to give you that much anyway if you're scum."

And then Safety was like "Well if you're town that would turn this into a Mason pairing I think and that would make it easier. Not sure on numbers what the likelihood would be. I should read the OP but can a mafia pair even in a QT like this be possible? 12 players, 6 teams, 3-4 scum, so two all-town teams?"

It seems to me like he's working off the assumption that scum aren't doubled up in teams, which he would know if he was scum.

[Elyse]

Or possibly he knew that there's a pairing with 2 scum and asked the question anyway to appear town. If he knew there's no pairing with 2 scum I don't see why he would specifically make this question.

Did that happen at the beginning of the game?

Yeah. And it seemed like he was trying to play dumb to me.

Ya elyse is scum.

All that quote proves is that sd never read the rules.

When are you going to actually give reasons besides just repeating yourself over and over?

[Elyse]

Ok I'll lynch him too. As I said, I don't care. I posted my reasons for why SD would be better but if you don't agree, fine.

[Elyse]

How is this not INCREDIBLY SUSPICIOUS to anyone else?

Remembers SD is in the game and chooses not to comment on him because he (apparently) has not found any SD content interesting.

FORGETS IM IN THE GAME and "lol fake edit - AP could be town or scum IDK "

I'll tell you why this is town.
Do you know what scum who realized they forgot AP in their reads would do?
They would go up in the list and add AP somewhere inbetween.
They would never go "oh I forgot AP, let's add the read now".

I agree with AP here. I don't see how enomis' wall is genuine or anything. He didn't even call anyone scum! Yes, I know you're going to say "If he was scum he would go for the easy mislynch on someone in the pool." But there are two sides to every story. He can also lynch almost anyone in the pool by not having scumreads on anyone.

And Wisdom, what you're saying is false. I was just in a completed game where scum forgot to add someone to a reads list and put it at the end.

[Elyse]

Oh yeah Amrun I forgot to mention her.

She's been quite contradicting and scummy the past few pages. I feel her arguments are very unnecessary and she always writes off her accuser with something like "that's retarded" or "can you speak english?". The only quip I have, which is similar to SC and the QT thing, is that she thought there were three scum initially. Yes, I know she's experienced enough to have planted it, but she's been consistently derpy about the setup so I'm having a hard time letting that go.

And yeah I'll link you to that post hold on.

[Elyse]

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Belisarius

Null. Not a lot to analyse but said he was going to catch up later

[#144]

.

Mutleyddmc

Null leaning scum. Hasn’t contributed anything relevant yet and is not acting in town’s interest.

Smudger

Null. Seems to have a town read on Siv

[#83]

or maybe I’m misinterpreting it but then seems to backtrack

[#151]

.

Your Troubles Will Cease

Null leaning scum. The scum bit is purely based on gut, which I don’t like but can’t ignore at this stage and based on

[#30]

&

[#44]

which seriously reeks.

Siveure DtTrikyp

Leaning town. Credits go to Siv for getting us out of the RVS that early and I don’t believe for a second that Siv would risk to start theorizing about the draft as scum while he has pucked such a high (and unique) number. Could be WIFOM but I’m not really buying that.

pieceofpecanpie

Leaning town. Clear cut case on Stryker

[#84]

and one of the most interesting posts of the game regarding draft theory and scumhunting

[#97]

.

Alabaska J

Leaning town. He is active and his posts makes sense. Especially

[#145]

which sounds townie.

Xdaamno

Null. Needs to post more.

TMTOLBTWNTOF

Null. I don’t really get TMT’s reads but it seems they are meta related so I have no opinion on that. Seems to insist he think Sakura is town though.

Crimml

Null. Only one post in which she said she would catch up.

Cade

Null leaning scum. Only one post

[#64]

which is a very opportunistic vote on Stryker. While I agree that Stryker looks scummy, Cade hasn’t provided anything else himself.

Stryker

Null leaning scum. Showing no initiative at all. Firmly disagrees with Siv about the Draft WIFOM but doesn’t want to debate further

[#31]

.

Sakura Hana

Null. Hasn’t contributed much either. Seems she is playing like Mutley without the stubbornness and anti townbehaviour.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

UNVOTE: Your Troubles Will Cease
VOTE: Mutleyddmc

I don't like Muttle's behaviour and I much prefer voting for him than to leave my RVS vote on YTWC though I have a slight scum read on him too, but based on gut as you have read above.

I think I just hit the jackpot, sorry if this seems messy but notice this:

Playerlist:

Belisarius
Mutleyddmc
Smudger
Your Troubles Will Cease

Sakura Hana

Siveure DtTrikyp
pieceofpecanpie
Alabaska J
*Xdaamno Moon
TMTOLBTWNTOF
Elyse Crimml
Deckard
*Cade
Yesterday Stryker

And Deckards reads list order in Post 159:

Belisarius
Mutleyddmc
Smudger
Your Troubles Will Cease
Siveure DtTrikyp
pieceofpecanpie
Alabaska J
Xdaamno
TMTOLBTWNTOF
Crimml
Cade
Stryker

Sakura Hana

---

He's left his scum partner until last to state a read on while doing everyone else in the OP's order.

The first post is his reads list and the second post is where he was called out on it.

Deckard was scum. Sakura ended up being town. He forgot her and just added her on at the end. He didn't stick her in between.

Is that the only reason enomis seemed genuine, Wisdom? Because it looked like you were thinking his post wasn't genuine.

P-edit:

[Elyse]

Nvm I thought she was Venmar for some reason. He wanted to challenge his partner and didn't know it was nightless.

So yes, Amrun's moment of derp was short-lived, but significant. I would much rather prefer lynching SafetyDance today.

No, Sakura wasn't his scumbuddy. Yeah, he didn't say "I forgot Sakura" but I don't think saying "I forgot x" makes someone town. At all. Alignment wouldn't dictate whether or not I would mention if I forgot someone. And how could someone forget about AP in a game like this? And remember SafetyDance? It seems too weird.

But as I said, I'd rather lynch Safety Dance today.

[Elyse]

Sorry I don't remember every damn thing you ask me.

Here's the gist of our QT conversation:

SD: Go Spinach Apes! I hear Fur Elise in my head when I see your name.
Elyse: Hey I think of Safety Dance when I hear your name.
SD: Did this start?
SD: 4 pages? I'll do this tomorrow.
Elyse: Yeah. It's annoying we don't know each other's alignments. I'm just going to assume you're town for now because if you're scum I'm not giving away any top secret information. I don't think Amrun is scum and I don't like how AP/Wisdom are taking control.
Elyse: I agree with Venmar but am scared of a Venmar/Amrun scumteam.
SD: *the post I already talked about* plus I hate super-active games.
Elyse: Yeah this game is annoying Grim posts like eighty walls at a time. I've never been in a neighborhood before. There are four scum and obviously we're both not scum. If I had to guess my scumteam would be AP/Grim/enomis/NS.
SD: Glad there's no hydras. I'm having trouble engaging with what's happened early on. I like Amrun's suggestion, Wisdom is being a dick, neither are alignment tells. I can't stand NS' style of play. It's been a factor in both games I've played with him and it's never helped town. Always happy to lynch him. ***Did not notice this after NS' flip*** could be bussing since he thinks NS is useless though
Elyse: I can see Majiffy scum doing what he did, but I don't like SC much so my vote is between them.
SD: Why the cold feet on NS? Especially post 732? Sorry for not being active but I'm trying.
Elyse: It bothered me that he would ask that. I don't see it coming from scum.

P-edit: She said she's been in like 100+ games and in a game this size it's always 3 scum. I remembered because I looked through her ISO recently.

[Elyse]

No it was very early on. Venmar came right to Amrun's defense. It was never a major suspicion of mine, just something in the back of my head.

And Grim, we were talking about our alignments.

I still think Amrun could've made that mistake about scum number.

[Elyse]

Is it enough to cancel everything scummy Amrun has done?

It's enough to make me not want to lynch her today.

[Elyse]

Yeah, yeah, prod received. I was struggling to read any game I was in over the the weekend.

I've been trying to catch up. I'm on page 38 which was like, only 6 hours ago and there's another 7 pages to go? All I see is like 40+ pages of egos floating around trying to bash the others into submission. Do you know how hard that is to sift through and analyse? >.<

Like fuuu.

Lmao @ Magiffy. You always read me as scum. In every single game. Love your epic skillz <3

Way I see it now I can see the scum team being Magiffy + NS + Venmar/Wisdom/AP + Enomis/Amrun/Elyse. Which probably isn't a good thing that I can't fit PM in there but she's a town read who could be coasting I suppose.

So from that vote pool, I can always get behind an NS lynch.

Vote: NS

Serious question to those voting SD - Do you think its likely he showed up and mindlessly started bussing NS as scum without reading anything?

Well he did think NS was useless. Being that there are four scum, I think they can afford to bus.

But again, it's that small thing that bugs me about lynching SD. Like SC's QT request and Amrun's incorrect scum number.

[Elyse]

@Elyse:

Why did you say "obviously we're both not scum" in the middle of that QT?

And Grim, we were talking about our alignments.

That doesn't even remotely answer the question. You said: we're "obviously" both not scum, meaning you thought/said he was "obviously" not scum. Why?

Oh I see what you mean.

No, I meant it like "one of us could be scum, but obviously both of us aren't."

[Elyse]

Not Voting (4) - , enomis

I'd like to see this change.

Elyse, if you had to choose between Enomis and Amrun, which would you choose? Hypothetical question and all.

Enomis

[Elyse]

Alright I gtg and I skimmed but

@Wisdom
How is Amrun an information lynch if only I could be scum with her? If no one else is then maybe, I dunno, she's NOT scum? Ever think of that.

Enomis is the lynch for today.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: enomis

[Elyse]

@Mod

V/LA until Wednesday the 17th

[Elyse]

Wisdom you are fucking retarded. I'm sorry but that past interaction with Grim has to be the DUMBEST series of posts I've ever read on this site. Ever. PLEASE pull your head out of yours and Grim's asses and see that Amrun isn't scum, I'm not scum, and Grim/enomis/qwints ARE scum. Thanks.

Dunno about taurus, but this looks to me like the scumteam is NS/Amrun/Elyse, Elyse did that on purpose, and Amrun used that to townread her.

Hello double standard.
It's fine when you townread me about it but when someone else does, I'm scum faking it and my partner is using it to townread me? Wtf is that?

Because she questioned why I was so certain that he was flipping town. That would show a townie who doesn't know what NS is going to flip and finds me, who supported "NS is compromise, he's surely flipping town", suspicious.
But Amrun's defence of it makes me believe that it could have been faked.

Once again, why is Amrun's defense of me so different than yours? You townread me from it. All fine and good. Amrun does the same. I'm scum faking it. What gives? Yes, I understand Amrun has been scummy but she didn't know how many scum there were and SHE DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AS ANYONE'S SCUM TEAMMATE. You seem to be trying to push her lynch saying she could be scum with me, but hello, there are FOUR people on the scumteam and you only have three. Who's the fourth? Answer: no one.

And if NS flips town then idk I'll have to reevaluate my reads.

But you have a point that this^ could be scum. She doesn't care what happens if NS flips town, and she doesn't have an alternative scumteam for that case. It could be because she knows this isn't going to happen.

No, it's because my townreads is/were strong enough that PoE worked and I was sure of NS scum. And what did you expect me to say? A Nobody Special townflip would have caused me to change my reads. I don't have a list of reads ready for you for every possible scenario.

1249 merely shows she has not put much thought in the possibilty that NS is not scum, and just looks at the person who happens to be around and adds some half-baked reason to it.

Look at the last sentence here:

Yes. PoE is strong.

And if NS flips town then idk I'll have to reevaluate my reads.

She claims to have found the four-man scumteam by a mere PoE. Nobody Special is therefore a scumread of hers. Does this strike you as a striking argumentation for NS scum?

Yet, despite this, she did not even think of a situation where NS is not scum. She would have to re-evaluate her reads only after the flip. This betrays a particularly strong "NS = scum" mindset, a mindset which is not explained by NS' play at the time.

Fishy business.

First of all, you can't criticize ANYONE'S view on NS.

But I'll humor you anyway. My townreads are strong enough that I'm very confident the scumteam is NS/qwints/Grim/enomis. I'm not going to waste my time trying to find a townread scummy when my initial scumteam isn't even wrong yet. You're accusing me of not doing work I didn't need to do. How is that scummy at all?

I think we've hit the jackpot there.
But who the hell is the fourth scum in that case?

Are you fucking serious? You "hit the jackpot"?

If Elyse is scum, then the conclusion she made that "there can't be scum-scum teams" would probably mean there are. It already felt like a forced conclusion when she made it, but now that I'm thinking about it she could be scum with Safety and the whole thing could be faked anyway.

Why would I even bring that up if I was scum?

And lol that I'm scum with Safety. Yeah definitely. That's why I wanted to lynch him first today.

[Elyse]

Yeah seriously

[Elyse]

Alright the only thing worthwhile responding to from that post is explaining my townreads, which I'd be happy to do.

Venmar - Have similar thoughts as him, very early townread (usually my stronger ones), challenged scum (SHUT UP WISDOM )
Amrun - Didn't know how many scum there were, doesn't make sense with anyone as scum (besides me I guess but I know I'm town), similar thought process to me
Mollie - Once again early townread, posting reads as genuine, her frustrations seem townie because she's not really in any danger of being lynched, I feel like if she was scum she would keep her cool until she was in the lynchpool at least (still waiting to dance)
Majiffy - Mollie townreads him, ballsy challenge
Wisdom - He seems willing to work with too many people to be scum, always re-evaluating reads, sometimes he changes them too much and for bad reasons but his play is generally town
AP - explanation of RL issues seems to genuine to fake

That's everyone right?

If I was wrong on anyone, I guess it would be Majiffy->Venmar although Majiffy scum would probably incriminate Mollie.

P-edit:
You vote me for having a townread on someone and not explaining why before you let me give reasons for them. And why are you scared I will use Amrun's flip against you? She's flipping scum, right? You just said she's given nobody any reason whatsoever to read her as town.

CAN EVERYONE PLEASE SEE HOW BAD THAT VOTE WAS?

And it's more of a V.

Grim is obvscum. But enomis literally works with EVERYONE as scum. I'll try to make a post soon about who fits with who and try to narrow down PoE.

[Elyse]

You're fucking stupid if you think Amrun is scum with me and qwints.

That doesn't work at all.

I'm also not buying Grim's "I'm too stupid" because he's a more than competent player and I'm confident that he's using stupidity as an excuse to vote erratically and play as scummy as he is.

[Elyse]

You have played the I'm too stupid card. Don't even try to make it seem like you didn't.

[Elyse]

Neither. I'm on my phone. But your last few posts are a prime example as well as the ones after Coug's flip.

[Elyse]

Lol Wisdom I actually hope you're scum because your play is horrible if you're town.

I gave my reasons for Amrun town and thought that consistently through the game. That's not white knighting.

I think Grim/enomis should face off. I hope people realize how retarded Wisdom is being and don't listen to him. Him thinking I'm scum with qwints is just

[Elyse]

@elyse: why not you challenge me or grim?
Nice idea?

Because you and Grim would guarantee a scum lynch.

[Elyse]

AP who am I scum with

VOTE: qwints

Because at this point I'm convinced Grim is retarded. He still could be scum but a lot of the reasons I'm scumreading him are his terrible switches on people which could be just because he's easily swayed by anyone and can't think for himself.

AP is scaring me though.

There is no sense in buddying up to Elyse in my case, I know it, and you know it just as well.

This really does not feel town at all.

Yes there is plenty of motivation for you to butter up Elyse (unless you are scum together in which case )

She will be voting either you or Qwints.

And she flipped her read on me despite tunneling me early on that Day I was lynchable.

Its not like anybody in particular is immune to manipulation which is what you imply afterwards, lol.

Town buddy too but are way less likely to beat around the bush about it.

The bolded makes it look like you were manipulating people when you were talking about your RL stuff.

This game is fucking terrible. I hate it honestly.

Wisdom is changes his mind every five seconds.
Grim is retarded.
Majiffy skates by doing nothing.
Mollie sheeps Majiffy.
AP is annoying.
Venmar doesn't do anything.
enomis doesn't do anything.
Qwints is the only one that doesn't piss me off basically. And I'm voting him.

[Elyse]

He still could be scum but a lot of the reasons I'm scumreading him are his terrible switches on people which could be just because he's easily swayed by anyone and can't think for himself.

This sounds like you're talking about me rather than Grim. What switches did Grim do?

NS, Amrun, Coug, me.

Not feeling qwints scum at all this game.

Got this feeling too. That is what my gut says.

@qwints

: I am getting to it. The problem is, i can't seem to get a read on Elyse. She posts too little. Like me maybe? And i am currently too lazy to iso her.

@Elyse

: Why Qwint instead of Grim?

AP who am I scum with

If you want connection cases, I'm not going to cough something up.

Enomis is scum. I'm really starting to worry about Majify/Wisdom not being both town. Wisdom would make the most sense because of his behavior yesterday.

I strongly doubt Grim is scum with you considering hes buddying up to you which would be a pretty bold scum/scum play and not something I'd expect from a newer player in general.

I'm leaning town on Qwints. I just really am not feeling scum-Qwints casting doubt on me an simultaneously trying to get me to join his wagon of choice.

I'm really surprised you would ask me about connections to you as opposed to why I'm voting you at all in the first place (although maybe Im not surprised).

The bolded makes it look like you were manipulating people when you were talking about your RL stuff.

You think Im confessing to manipulating somebody in this game as a supporting argument for my post to Grim?

Thats a really huge stretch and you pointing to one thing even that I did and saying this refers to it is really scummy.

Venmar doesn't do anything.

Vote: Elyse

Good posting : P

Elyse is scum. Her talking about the game is just an attempt to link herself to Amrun's pre-death posting and fwiw I believe the Elyse is frustrated. It reads genuine but out of place and definitely not were her focus would be as town.

Also her calling me dumb/annoying looks like an attempt to mimic qwints doing the same to me and me calling him town for it. She first calls me scummy/scary but then ends up just reverting me to a dumb-read at the end and the flow reads fake.

I don't want to respond to this.

I'm not faking calling you annoying or not liking this game. These are the exact type of things that make me hate it actually. You've pissed me off this whole game and you need a communications course if you haven't seen that by now.

My wagon stinks and no one has given real reasons for voting me lol.

Wisdom is the only one making actual sense right now and if he's scum he deserves this win. Mollie is also pissing me the hell off because she had a townread on me and now she's just sheeping Majiffy. Same with Venmar.

I thought this playerlist would be good but it SUCKS.

[Elyse]

So what do you think the scumteam is?
What do you think we should do after you flip?

Qwints/enomis/{Grim, Majiffy}
Have qwints challenge enomis or vice versa.

[Elyse]

That'd be ok with me. Um I'll paraphrase what happened after qwints replaced in. Not much at all.

[Elyse]

qwints: Any key points you want me to reread? I know you're voting me but any help reading this huge game would be appreciated. I understand if you want to limit interaction.

He then said that Amrun and Grim were scummy. He wanted enomis lynched yesterday and then have Amrun and Grim face off, though he didn't think both were scum.

Then I said I agreed with lynching enomis, and expected Amrun to flip town. I said this would hopefully get Wisdom out of retard mode so he could see obvscum Grim.

He said he didn't like AP's hammer.

Asked what I thought of enomis' burst of activity.

I said I'm pretty sure he's scum.

P-edit: Majiffy, why are you voting me?
Mollie, why are you voting me?
Venmar, why are you voting me?
AP, why are you voting me?

[Elyse]

Linking to posts of my is not a case. I can't respond to anything if you don't say why they're scummy.

[Elyse]

*posts of mine

[Elyse]

That's lynchworthy?

I correctly read two players so that means I'm scum? Dafuq? Because I would definitely try not to get a townie easily mislynched in a nightless game.

[Elyse]

Also enomis if you're going to hammer me just do it.

[Elyse]

What happens when I flip town Majiffy

[Elyse]

But who's scum

[Elyse]

and...

[Elyse]

I'm not bullshitting anything. I'm asking you who is scum when I flip town and you can't give me an answer.

[Elyse]

Yeah pretending I'm stupid won't help your cause.

There are three other scum besides NS and you only named two.

[Elyse]

And why do you have to be so hostile? You're one of the main reasons this game is unenjoyable.

[Elyse]

Oh my god.

Saying "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" is not an acceptable answer. You can't come up with a scumteam for when I flip town. That's my point.

[Elyse]

I've already responded to your reasoning, Majiffy. So what you are saying is completely false.

[Elyse]

That's lynchworthy?

I correctly read two players so that means I'm scum? Dafuq? Because I would definitely try not to get a townie easily mislynched in a nightless game.

[Elyse]

Yes it is.

You said I was trying to connect myself with dead town players. The only "connection" I am making with them is that I TOWNREAD THEM AND WANTED TO KEEP THEM AROUND.

[Elyse]

Why did it have to take so much pushing and prodding to get this out of you?

Amrun isn't scum, I'm not scum

, and Grim/enomis/qwints ARE scum. Thanks.

Bolded: Pretty much the definition of tying yourself with another player's flip.

No it's not. At all. It's just the order of the sentence.

Dunno about taurus, but this looks to me like the scumteam is NS/Amrun/Elyse, Elyse did that on purpose, and Amrun used that to townread her.

Hello double standard.
It's fine when you townread me about it but when someone else does, I'm scum faking it and my partner is using it to townread me?

Read: "When Amrun flips town I'm obvtown!"

What? How do you get that at all? Wisdom said I was scum with Amrun and I faked what I said to get her to townread me. Should my response be "Yeah, maybe"? NO.

SHE DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AS ANYONE'S SCUM TEAMMATE. You seem to be trying to push her lynch saying she could be scum with me, but hello, there are FOUR people on the scumteam and you only have three. Who's the fourth? Answer: no one.

Hey isn't this the same defense you just tried to use for yourself? Hmm. Wonder what they would call that when you use the same defense on yourself as you do for a flipped townie...

Hmmm...considering Amrun was TOWN, doesn't that, I dunno, make sense?

I don't have a list of reads ready for you for every possible scenario.

I also got a chuckle out of this, considering it completely betrays your defense from earlier.

Yes but I'm only asking you one scenario and it directly affects today's lynch. And why didn't you say something like this earlier? Instead, you made it seem like you had a plan for when I flipped town. That's scummy. You didn't play it off like I did.

I'm not going to waste my time trying to find a townread scummy when my initial scumteam isn't even wrong yet. You're accusing me of not doing work I didn't need to do. How is that scummy at all?

More lulz like the above.

Grim never prompted me before that. I would have no problem if he asked me specifically for my scumteam if a scumread flipped town, but he just said "You're scummy for not looking at every option." This case is completely different. I'm not calling you scummy for not considering your scumreads wrong, I'm calling you scummy for not being able to come up with a scumteam for when I flip town.

Here, have more.

Amrun - Didn't know how many scum there were, doesn't make sense with anyone as scum (besides me I guess but I know I'm town)

More tying.

It's true. Everyone said Amrun didn't make sense with anyone as scum but me. How am I scum for saying that?

And why are you scared I will use Amrun's flip against you? She's flipping scum, right?

Far too confident an argument to take for someone who doesn't know the alignment of the person they're defending. This is basically a scum claim.

Oh, like confident enough to challenge a team when there wasn't even a consensus reached? You out of ANYONE should know confidence isn't a scumtell. Come on now.

You're fucking stupid if you think Amrun is scum with me and qwints.

Wait didn't you just say that Amrun works as your teammate?

You missed the QWINTS part.

Neither. I'm on my phone. But your last few posts are a prime example as well as the ones after Coug's flip.

Tying Amrun/Coug together, which is essentially linking herself to Coug. Thus, tying yourself to two flipped townies.

Wtf is this? First, I'm not tying Amrun and Coug together. I was pointing out where Grim flip flopped on people. Second, even if I was, I'm not linking myself to Coug. This is bullshit.

[Elyse]

I'm not even going to respond to the stuff that you just say you're right and give no evidence to because this is annoying.

What? How do you get that at all? Wisdom said I was scum with Amrun and I faked what I said to get her to townread me. Should my response be "Yeah, maybe"? NO.

No, your response should be "I'm not scum", not "Oh so I'm scum because x is scum townreading me for y?"

When in this game should my response

ever

be I'm not scum? I'm supposed to give REASONS for why I'm not scum.

Hmmm...considering Amrun was TOWN, doesn't that, I dunno, make sense?

Yes, it makes sense that you're using a defense you used on a townie to defend yourself.

BECAUSE THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT OF TYING YOURSELF TO A TOWNIE.

I'm not using that defense because I'm tying myself to Amrun. I'm using that defense because it's true.

Yes but I'm only asking you one scenario and it directly affects today's lynch. And why didn't you say something like this earlier? Instead, you made it seem like you had a plan for when I flipped town. That's scummy. You didn't play it off like I did.

What's scummy is that you're acting like because I scum read you I have to have teams for every possible scum-you and town-you combination. Because the question you posed could just have easily been followed up with: "{what if y is town?/What if x is town?/What if z is town?}"

No I'm not. Please read what I said and try again. I'm not calling you scummy for that.

By the way; What you responded to there

was

only one scenario. A scenario you didn't have prepared.

What?

Grim never prompted me before that. I would have no problem if he asked me specifically for my scumteam if a scumread flipped town, but he just said "You're scummy for not looking at every option." This case is completely different. I'm not calling you scummy for not considering your scumreads wrong, I'm calling you scummy for not being able to come up with a scumteam for when I flip town.

Why is it scummy that I go after one scum at a time instead of trying to link associative after associative after associative on unflipped players? Because the latter is a highly ineffective strategy.

You're saying it's scummy not to play in the most inefficient, least productive way possible.

That's the kind of strategy that got Amrun lynched. And Amrun was town. My strategy got NS lynched. And yet mine is inefficient and unproductive? In other games, maybe, but not in a nightless mountainous when the only tools besides scumhunting are associative tells.

It's true. Everyone said Amrun didn't make sense with anyone as scum but me. How am I scum for saying that?

Because from your perspective, you aren't scum. Ergo Amrun doesn't make sense with anyone, not anyone (except maybe me I guess lol hehe look how town I am for admitting I might be scum! I'm gonna look soooo town when she flips town!)

I said that because I could see people (you specifically) saying "Amrun DOES makes sense with someone. She makes sense with YOU."

Oh, like confident enough to challenge a team when there wasn't even a consensus reached? You out of ANYONE should know confidence isn't a scumtell. Come on now.

There isn't even a shred of an analogy between those two, I'll accept this as an admission of guilt.

Yes there is. You were so confident that Grim/SC were scum that you challenged them. I was confident in Amrun town.

You missed the QWINTS part.

So why did you include yourself, then?

Oh right, tying.

Because people were accusing me of being in a scumteam with Amrun and qwints. Obviously I would include myself. Tying does not make sense here, or anywhere for that matter.

Wtf is this? First, I'm not tying Amrun and Coug together. I was pointing out where Grim flip flopped on people. Second, even if I was, I'm not linking myself to Coug. This is bullshit.

First, yes you are. By using Coug's flip as an example of reference in regard to Amrun's future flip.
Second, yes you are. If A is like B and B is like C, then A is like C.

I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT MYSELF HERE.

I said Grim was flip-flopping after Coug's lynch and his recent posts. Those are just places in the thread. I'm not linking anything, just merely stating where Grim was flip-flopping. I really don't know where you are digging this up from.

[Elyse]

If qwints were scum he prolly would have hammered that.

Catching up tomorrow.

Why? He never showed intent to want to lynch me and if he hammered he would look really bad.

Also, do you

really

think qwints and I are scum together?

[Elyse]

Damn it why can't enomis be in this lynchpool.

He fits with Grim/qwints/enomis and Majiffy/Mollie/enomis.

Grim and qwints have seemed more town the last few posts. Majiffy's case on me is bad and so is his AtE. Mollie has disappeared, along with my townread on her.

Wisdom is obvtown and AP/Venmar are most likely town.

[Elyse]

Enomis
Majiffy
Qwints

Qwints is a tough read for me but out of the current pool I would be willing to lynch him.

[Elyse]

I think tomorrow should be Red vs Blue, thought?

Red vs anyone would be great, but red vs blue would be best.

[Elyse]

Sure.
Wisdom - town
Venmar - townie
AP - townie
enomis - scum
Majiffy - scummy
Mollie - null
Qwints - scummy but also townie sometimes, willing to lynch
Grim - some of his scumminess can be attributed to being easily misled, and his recent posts have leaned town, so I'll go null

So yeah my probable scumteams are:

enomis/Grim/Qwints
enomis/Majiffy/Qwints
enomis/Majiffy/Mollie
enomis/Majiffy/Grim

In order of most to least likely

[Elyse]

Also care to do the same for me?

[Elyse]

My bad the team I had as one should be three.

[Elyse]

@AP
I don't see how Grim/Qwints not hammering me makes them not scum. (with me town) There are many reasons why they wouldn't hammer me. Fear, drastic switch on reads, loss of towncred, my townflip makes them look scummy, etc.

@Mollie
How do you expect us to believe your townread on Majiffy when you could be scum? Is there anything in-thread you could show us?

[Elyse]

Her point is that mollie uses out-of-thread reasons for her townread.

Thank you.

[Elyse]

Yeh I'm sick of your "debunking". You're quite obviously prefectly capable of doing it, so it does not mean much for me anymore.

This is truly retarded. Seriously. I get that you're getting tired of the game or something,b ut that's no excuse to get obvtown lynched. Read 2381.

And qwints is scum, for event rying to bring that up again. I have explained my stance on Nobody Special thousands of times, yet he simply ignored it, goes back in time, and gives it scrutiny by simply hypothesizing over scenarios.

FUCK YOU FOR VOTING ME WISDOM.
Seriously.

This post is really scummy.

First, since when are you obvtown? This whole game you've (admittedly) waffled around reads, been completely wrong, made mistakes, and said you would sheep people. How is that obvtown?

Second, how is qwints scummy for bringing up a reason for you as scum? He is actively trying to lynch you today and stated that multiple times.

Grim and Qwints are both in two of my suspected scumteams so I am good with lynching Grim.

I guess I would prefer a qwints lynch, but not by much, and there doesn't seem to be enough support for one.

[Elyse]

Grim, I already explained why neither of you would hammer and you are changing your mind AGAIN. You're scum. And your post was not obvtown.

You

are

the weakest link. Goodbye.

[Elyse]

@Mod
V/LA until August 5

I should be able to post everyday though.

[Elyse]

So we don't wake daddy.

OMG I had that game

[Elyse]

The weakest link was a tv show and whenever someone was voted off the host would say "You

are

the weakest link. Goodbye." I didn't mean it to be offensive.

[Elyse]

Grim is scum.
He's saying that I'm scummy for switching onto him WHEN I CONTINUED VOTING FOR QWINTS AND SAID I WOULD PREFER A QWINTS LYNCH. I said I might switch to Grim since the qwints wagon isn't gaining traction and I would be fine with Grim's lynch. Grim calls me scummy for this. Then he uses the SAME EXACT reason to vote me. Seriously wtf is all this AtE and vote hopping. Lets just get this over with and lynch enomis next.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Grimgroove

[Elyse]

Lol have fun in Egypt!

[Elyse]

namely only mollie

I lol'd.

Also, Seraphic, your slot is almost universally scum at this point. Ill be interested to hear your thoughts.

[Elyse]

Vote for Grim.

[Elyse]

Why? Because I think you're scum? Reread the last three pages or so because I explained my vote for Grim and you can see his terrible waffling.

Oh wait you both are scum nvm.

Your "notes" don't make sense at all.

If you hammer me just know you'll be getting rope tomorrow when I flip town.

[Elyse]

That's not my entire defense you just have problems with reading.

[Elyse]

I'm kinda tempted to hammer Elyse just because I'm feeling scum are just waiting for Seraphic to hammer Grim.

[Elyse]

Wisdom, I don't understand that at all. Grim and I are both at L-1. Why is scum waiting for sera to hammer Grim and not me? Unless you think Venmar and Qwints are scum...which doesn't make much sense.

[Elyse]

I fucking hated this game and it wasn't the mod's fault. The setup was cool, the flips were on time, and you did a great job.

Town sucked ass. Like I didn't even think that AP's real-life revelation was townie but then everyone reacted like he was conf town and God forbid I go against the grain everyone was so damn bloodthirsty and snappy.

I felt like if I ever changed my mind I would be crucified. Scum had such an overpowering influence in the game, and town played right into their hands, up until my lynch at least.

Grim was obvtown for his QT thing but I knew if I changed my mind I would be lynched anyway. Seraphic seemed town upon replace-in, and I don't even know how Majiffy was lynched over Mollie.

I had NS/AP/qwints pegged early on, and I think Mollie would have come over time, but still, scum did a good job.

Glad this is over with.