Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Mac]

what part of venmar's claim made you rage TD cos I really can't see much wrong with what he did?

[Mac]

I feel that claiming PGO is bad as a pgo, the same way claiming bomb is bad even if you know there is a vig in the game.

It's tantamount to saying "I don't think I can play my role well enough to make it usefull so i'm going to go ahead and be a vanilla townie that needs to be lynched before lylo." You take a role that can be a great errr good thing, to the town, and make it a detriment. I know that it can be a horrible detriment to the town if played badly, but that's not a fucking excuse. When you're given a role, you play that role to your win condition.

It just.... it bugs me...

so what would you have done if you were given PGO?

[Mac]

you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.

[Mac]

we are most certainly not done with it.

stop running away.

[Mac]

pretty sure you are running away.

now answer the questions asked at you or be lynched. it's simple.

[Mac]

Because I don't like people deciding the lynch ahead o time

It's stupid

Especially in D1 with no conftown

whose deciding any lynches?

someone has to make a stand and it doesn't look like you are doing anything here so far.

[Mac]

Hold the motherfucking phone, hey mac, who asked me questions?

you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.

those are questions.

[Mac]

Neither of those are questions, and you are stupid to think so. Putting a question mark on the end of something doesn't make it a question.

Fail slip dodge is fail. VOTE: Mac. Hey guys, I found an overeager scum, want to help me lynch it?

is this really fucking happening?

[Mac]

are you going to do anything other than cry in the corner and call everyone stupid?

[Mac]

I am doing things here, what thread have you been reading?

your iso is full of shit except like 3 posts

[Mac]

It's not a mother fucking policy lynch, I didn't push a lynch on venmar, I never voted venmar, and I hate policy lynches. Remove-head-from-rectum-conf-town.

and yet you said you were "heavily tempted" to vote Venmar earlier

[Mac]

I. Don't. Even. All you stupid fuckers need to stop PGO claiming, either it's a bad gambit, or you are one in which case you should be playing in such a way that scum will target you and not town to get free kills instead of dumbassing. Heavily tempted to vote venmar here....

You didn't vote him, but you made this little half-step push thing, which is worse in my book.

bingo. it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD.

[Mac]

I. Don't. Even. All you stupid fuckers need to stop PGO claiming, either it's a bad gambit, or you are one in which case you should be playing in such a way that scum will target you and not town to get free kills instead of dumbassing. Heavily tempted to vote venmar here....

You didn't vote him, but you made this little half-step push thing, which is worse in my book.

bingo. it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD.

Except that's not what happened.

VOTE: Mac

what?

[Mac]

VOTE: Venmar

Me being heavily tempted to vote venmar was out of frustration with his stupidity, not because I think he is scum.

Nick, you're silly, he is highly likely to be a PGO.

I. Don't. Even. All you stupid fuckers need to stop PGO claiming, either it's a bad gambit, or you are one in which case you should be playing in such a way that scum will target you and not town to get free kills instead of dumbassing. Heavily tempted to vote venmar here....

You didn't vote him, but you made this little half-step push thing, which is worse in my book.

bingo. it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but

waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD.

So, if you look at post #48, TD jumped away from Venmar when I voted Ven, and actually told me not to vote him. This is completely inconsistent with Mac's version of events. Mac's been trying to justify a place on the TD wagon for a little while, but apparently he doesn't even know why he's on it.

" it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD."
But then when I took the initiative, he immediately backs off? That makes no sense.

ok. i was wrong. remind me why that makes me scum? I've justified my place on this wagon already.

also voting venmar for stupidity = policy lynch. despite td apparently hating them.

[Mac]

Want to take a look at the interplay tween B n B and SoS

I do realize of course that the Mollie head and the fery head are long time friends from another site, but want to be sure it is not being used as a cover for buddying.

yes cos fery and I would totally fall for that. I am so glad we have you to help sort that out.

I can't tell if this bugs me or not

does rach normally do this?

i dont recall it last game

[Mac]

what are you talking about being assertive, bro?

[Mac]

and how does the speed of a wagon arising have anything to do with alignment?

[Mac]

153 and the interactions with TD that follow. I remember your style being, "poke into conversations and ask insightful questions that can cause problems for scum."

pedit: I feel like you should know the answer to that question.

meh, my play changes. i was pretty good in xenoblade but it took me a while to get going.

wrt the answer, humour me.

[Mac]

no mollie im not and you should know that.

[Mac]

How the fuck was I opportunistic, stop discrediting a completely valid wagon

it isn't valid cos td has a point. you could have played in a way to attract a nk and if I am town reading you which I am obviously when I say "opportunstic" I am not referring to you

but if you played in a way to attract a nightkill you are either: obvtown or claimed pr.

both risk attracting town prs (example: doc) so I think it's for the best to reveal

[Mac]

Mac don't answer my questions when I don't ask you pls

what are you talking about

[Mac]

I asked mollie what others might want to target a person who is nightkill bait.

i didnt answer anything of yours?

[Mac]

but i was talking to mollie not you. and didn't get a preview edit.

[Mac]

regardless, it was unintentional. i'm questioning mollie

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

need to reread some posts and pages.

[Mac]

Contrast Muffin's push with Mac's. Whereas muffin consistently expressed his thought processes and gave TD content to react to, Mac was needlessly antagonistic.

what part of venmar's claim made you rage TD cos I really can't see much wrong with what he did?

I feel that claiming PGO is bad as a pgo, the same way claiming bomb is bad even if you know there is a vig in the game.

It's tantamount to saying "I don't think I can play my role well enough to make it usefull so i'm going to go ahead and be a vanilla townie that needs to be lynched before lylo." You take a role that can be a great errr good thing, to the town, and make it a detriment. I know that it can be a horrible detriment to the town if played badly, but that's not a fucking excuse. When you're given a role, you play that role to your win condition.

It just.... it bugs me...

so what would you have done if you were given PGO?

you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.

we are most certainly not done with it.

stop running away.

pretty sure you are running away.

now answer the questions asked at you or be lynched. it's simple.

What kind of response is he looking to get here? He's not interested in determing TD's alignment, he's just kicking the dog while it's down.

that's not true at all. there is no hostility in my line of questioning until TD says we should drop it which you know doesn't happen in mafia. if that happened, scumslips wouldn't exist. don't you see how frustrated I was getting with TD?

Neither of those are questions, and you are stupid to think so. Putting a question mark on the end of something doesn't make it a question.

Fail slip dodge is fail. VOTE: Mac. Hey guys, I found an overeager scum, want to help me lynch it?

is this really fucking happening?

are you going to do anything other than cry in the corner and call everyone stupid?

Aren't you doing the same thing? What else is "is this really fucking happening?" supposed to mean other than "How stupid are you to vote me?"

nope. that is one of the most blatant OMGUS votes I've ever seen.

It's not a mother fucking policy lynch, I didn't push a lynch on venmar, I never voted venmar, and I hate policy lynches. Remove-head-from-rectum-conf-town.

and yet you said you were "heavily tempted" to vote Venmar earlier

I. Don't. Even. All you stupid fuckers need to stop PGO claiming, either it's a bad gambit, or you are one in which case you should be playing in such a way that scum will target you and not town to get free kills instead of dumbassing. Heavily tempted to vote venmar here....

You didn't vote him, but you made this little half-step push thing, which is worse in my book.

bingo. it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD.

I. Don't. Even. All you stupid fuckers need to stop PGO claiming, either it's a bad gambit, or you are one in which case you should be playing in such a way that scum will target you and not town to get free kills instead of dumbassing. Heavily tempted to vote venmar here....

You didn't vote him, but you made this little half-step push thing, which is worse in my book.

bingo. it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD.

Except that's not what happened.

VOTE: Mac

what?

I can almost see Mac's neck whiplashing here. He thinks he's gotten someone to buy in to his TD misrep and he doesn't even know what to say when he realizes he misread the situation.

nah my neck was fine, thank you for asking. I can see where I went wrong and have admitted my mistakes. one mistake didn't eradicate my scumread however. TD STILL ran away from the discussion when the going got tough. it's akin to fakeclaiming as you are about to be lynched and never returning to discuss it. with all that said however, I think he's been more townie with his posts lately.

[Mac]

@mala

why did you moan about people voting you despite not having finished your catchup, and then vote before you'd finished your catchup?

[Mac]

also mala I'm struggling to understand your thought process here because here's how you entered this game wrt to mollie:

- haven't seen townmollie in the 15 pages I read before replacing in, vote mollie
- retract vote next post, town mollie on page 13

what happened there?

[Mac]

Because generally when I have a scum read, I want them dead. Now, mods for some silly reason don't give me the power to vote all my scum reads at once, most games.

Good for you, but my head doesn't play like yours. If I have a read on a player I post it. If I scum read someone it's because they triggered gut or they are doing something I'm not used to seeing in their play so I call it out. Does not mean I want them dead.

Please do not put your own personal-how-I-play-meta onto me. We all play differently and not the same. We are not created equal.

You accused me of a misrep, remember? If it's because we don't fucking play the same, don't come after me.

what does playstyle have to do with misrepping?

for what it's worth, you did misrep her.

[Mac]

@bork - having some computer issues. V/LA for an unknown time. I can phone post but wont be able to do much with it, if I'm v/la for too long then I'll request replacement.

[Mac]

the mastin wagon is baaad and the people on it should feel bad

[Mac]

Holy shit. The links that SoS posted on Andy look similar to the walls here. brb checking new links and then moving onto Mastin.

Uh

"andy's walls here look like the scum meta SoS just linked"

"moving on to mastin"

???

how much of a fucking misrep could this be? there's a whole part of that sentence you've missed out which is pretty key to the fact that Mala is

not

just moving onto mastin.


VOTE: Trust Fund

[Mac]

also there was something bugging me about skull's entrance but I can't remember what it was. I think it had something to do with notscience and the pgo claim but I'll have to check.

[Mac]

mastin is laying it on really really thick.

mac. why aren't you working with me mac.

you know im always down for working with you, im having laptop issues but ill do my best to comply.

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Andy

I can see where people are coming from wrt to the differences between Andy here and xeno and I think we need to hear more from him in that aspect.

and also nacho why aren't you doing anything substantial?

[Mac]

@bork - I can come off v/la because I picked up my old man's laptop 'til mine is fixed

Which means content after work, yay

[Mac]

hi, I've been moving in to college, will have less time with classes starting again, I still exist though, sorry that looks scummy ftl.

Dude, it's cool.
I've been moving in, taking a GTA practicum, I know no one here, my room-mates (2 of 3 have never lived in America before) just moved in, and I've gone to a couple of parties and never gotten to sleep before 1 AM every morning--and I have to wake up at 7 AM for this class. In the next two weeks, I'm going to be teaching college, taking Graduate courses, and balancing the rest of this shit.
Look how much I've posted.
There are no excuses.

pretty unfair thing to say to be honest

[Mac]

mollie re: bro.

I think there is a massive difference between rw bro and this bro and it's kinda making me nervous about him. if you look at rw bro he vote reasonably early on nacho despite having weak day one reads and in this thread he had much stronger reads but took alot longer to vote.

he was more useful with his vote in rw i think but not cautious because he declared intent to hammer KA fairly early on in the day there too.

too summarize: it looks pretty different to RWBro to me and Im gonna add him as a cautious scumread for it. this may be chalked down to RW being a completely different group of players though, whereas there is more familiarity in this game

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

andy as much as i thoroughly enjoyed drunk you, can we chat when you are sober? just pull over on your way to the airport or something, yeah?

[Mac]

rach dearest

I think you may be town but I wanna know what you are doing with your vote cos all I see is "sheeping mollie/Jiffy" in your iso and it scares me

[Mac]

oh look at that, peeps were pushing skull and bam turns out he is replacing out? What is with going after low hanging fruit eh? How about we catch real scum instead?

why are you directing traffic away from the replacement

[Mac]

mollie re: bro.

I think there is a massive difference between rw bro and this bro and it's kinda making me nervous about him. if you look at rw bro he vote reasonably early on nacho despite having weak day one reads and in this thread he had much stronger reads but took alot longer to vote.

he was more useful with his vote in rw i think but not cautious because he declared intent to hammer KA fairly early on in the day there too.

too summarize: it looks pretty different to RWBro to me and Im gonna add him as a cautious scumread for it. this may be chalked down to RW being a completely different group of players though, whereas there is more familiarity in this game

mollie <3 mac

thank you.

sorry it took so long. how does that compare with what you are thinking?

[Mac]

Ok I grant I worded that badly.

I am not saying that skull now his replacement is not scum or is scum, I was saying pushing on a player who clearly was going to be replaced for flaking out was going after low hanging fruit. I am hoping the replacement will clear up that slot of us so we know what skull was. Which is why I had Skull as null.

Hope that makes more sense?

makes sense but i dont understand how you could say for certain skull was obviously going to flake. And it is still driving people away from the skull slot.

[Mac]

Could you explain that?

Basically he didn't just blatantly OMGUS and deathtunnel the person on him. His posting tone was also more aggressive and angry, and his posts were generally shorter and more frequent.

have you not seen his views on me?

[Mac]

hint: it didn't, and none of his posts since have

[Mac]

still here. will do some catchup & vote process tomorrow hopefully.

[Mac]

ok so andy is bleeding town. i had a mild townread on rach too so im going to look behind door number three.

vote: BRO

[Mac]

also andy it took you so long to respond i forgot what i wanted to chat about

[Mac]

why are you talking about mala being the scum kill

[Mac]

its pretty clear rach is scum vars

VOTE: Rach


i trusted you to have better judgement smh

i did not like this post from ftl hydra.

but then again ms was calling rach scum all game whilst varsoon preached that she was null. he only sorta fell that way when nacho convinced him but even then didn't vote.

vote: Mala

^ interactions with rach. didn't particularly push rach as town until later, instead using the "she does this as either alignment" argument which is nonsense, or else we wouldn't have been able to nail her as scum.

[Mac]

not liking bro either

[Mac]

That nick vote into unvote is awkward as fuck, btw.

what is awkward about it?

[Mac]

Herro scum cw. Rach is town and Andy is scum, tyvm.

i think you said it here?

amirite?

[Mac]

not one single person was trying to policy lynch rach. you are just flat out bullshitting now mala.

moar mala votes plz

[Mac]

Got it:

Nick never calls me scum at all day 1, then this weird thing with TF happens and he's voting on me. That lack of trajectory contributes to the awkwardness (y'know, in addition to what Cabd said)

you can see where his thoughts came from though.

cabd had the same thoughts as him, just without voting nor saying.

[Mac]

also funny story time, i actually thought you meant nick putting vote: unvote was awkward

facepalm

[Mac]

yeah i see what you mean. he was pretty irrational and that's not particularly in the town's interests.

are you asking me to look at your interactions with mala and nhammen? cos I'm not really sure what you mean

[Mac]

are you asking me to look at your interactions with mala and nhammen? cos I'm not really sure what you mean

Yes.

why are you asking me to do that

[Mac]

Herro scum cw. Rach is town and Andy is scum, tyvm.

i think you said it here?

amirite?

... Yeah that was right about the time I had my second drink of vodka. I do not remember saying that.

not one single person was trying to policy lynch rach. you are just flat out bullshitting now mala.

moar mala votes plz

They will keep saying it wasn't a policy lynch, but it looked like a policy lynch to me. I have seen her be mislynch bait before because hell I as scum mislynched her on dead purpose to try and bring in a win. There's been times where scum-Rach has been more "obvious" to me and I couldn't pull a lynch on her because I wasn't being listened too, but town Rach is somewhat easy for me to read. I have played with her when I was town in two other games and I pegged her as town right away. So, yeah I *thought* I was decent at reading her, but I'm wrong now.

mala I'm going to ask you to take a look at 1430

that is a complete case from townZMON on rach, it's legit, and it's like all of her posts. it's

good

.

and your response was basically

^ Yeah you are just PL'ing her for being useless.

you completely discredited a valid case by trying to push that rach was nothing more than a policy lynch. that is flat out not true.

[Mac]

Also, I lied. So there's that~

and what did you learn from that?

[Mac]

are you asking me to look at your interactions with mala and nhammen? cos I'm not really sure what you mean

Yes.

why are you asking me to do that

Because I'm trying to gauge the narrative that you're constructing about who is scum and why.

aka the fact that you are scumreading both Mala and me is strange as balls unless you think we're cross-bussing hard and that I've been bussing since before she was in the game.

pedit: Doh >.>

I'll cross that bridge when mala flips scum

[Mac]

so tf, scum would not have been able to nightkill at all?

[Mac]

so tf, scum would not have been able to nightkill at all?

It strips my target of any and all powers so long as they're scum. So basically, if bro was scum, he'd lose any night role AND the ability to preform the factional kill.

right.

so bro could still be scum if he didn't make the factional kill (which he wouldn't have)

@mala oh my god i cannot believe you are talking about counterwagons, talk about desperate. who are the scum on your counterwagon then?

[Mac]

so bro could still be scum if he didn't make the factional kill (which he wouldn't have)

Hence "leans" town due to what I said. But even if we leave him alone and he makes it to endgame and was scum all along, he won't be able to kill when he's alone sooooooo if we get a whole bunch of nights with no deaths in what feels like massclaim time, lynch him.

oh wait hes completely stripped for good? that sounds better.

[Mac]

so tf, scum would not have been able to nightkill at all?

It strips my target of any and all powers so long as they're scum. So basically, if bro was scum, he'd lose any night role AND the ability to preform the factional kill.

right.

so bro could still be scum if he didn't make the factional kill (which he wouldn't have)

@mala oh my god i cannot believe you are talking about counterwagons, talk about desperate. who are the scum on your counterwagon then?

Bro and I'm still not sold on Aj-town.

Yep, I'm so desperate. No, the wagon is conveniently made after Bro has a few votes placed on him. Give it a few more hours and I'll be in the lead.

why on earth would three votes need a counterwagon seriously. you are scumread by everyone on this wagon for legitimate reasons.

@mastin - you think nacho bussed the shit out of rach then?

[Mac]

varsoon

mala thoughts?

[Mac]

andi you should vote mala

[Mac]

if someone who i think is town gives me good reason to sheep them, i will

2632

[Mac]

if you swap aj for mastin, that list is mostly in line with where i'm at right now

what's your issues with aj?

[Mac]

actually i dont really remember aj doing anything substantial.

last game i scumread him heavily d1 so maybe he's trying not to stand out and be lynched. still interested to hear your reason muffman

[Mac]

so he's null?

[Mac]

actually i dont really remember aj doing anything substantial.

last game i scumread him heavily d1 so maybe he's trying not to stand out and be lynched. still interested to hear your reason muffman

he was on to mala all day what are you talking about

well i dont remember it. ill have a look

[Mac]

mollie why are you still voting bro?

[Mac]

mollie why are you still voting bro?

why are you asking me this question?

we have a hydra together, you don't move my vote until I feel like it. I don't feel like it at the mo.

there have been developments since you voted him. has your stance on him changed?

[Mac]

not what I was looking for, but we can talk when you're not mad.

[Mac]

& there go any doubts about andy being town with that.

so bro is still scum too?

[Mac]

Mac and Nacho are flying this under the radar and are probably enjoying the fact Majiffy is a loud player

I am one to tunnel but Majiffy has seemed to taken it a bit too far, skeptical on his judgment on Nick's slot, definitely wont be sheeping him, only my own judgment. The matter of the fact is, I don't think Nick is scummy enough to warrant my vote over Mac or Nacho, plain and simple.

bla bla bla. i'm not flying under any radar, i've made my case on why mala is scum. if majiffy wants to throw his rattles around until people vote nick, that's fine by me. i'll only move my vote when necessary, or I'm absolutely convinced on nickscum.

[Mac]

it's okay i've outlined why you could be rach's partner too

sorry bork!

[Mac]

Mac and Nacho are flying this under the radar and are probably enjoying the fact Majiffy is a loud player

I am one to tunnel but Majiffy has seemed to taken it a bit too far, skeptical on his judgment on Nick's slot, definitely wont be sheeping him, only my own judgment. The matter of the fact is, I don't think Nick is scummy enough to warrant my vote over Mac or Nacho, plain and simple.

bla bla bla. i'm not flying under any radar, i've made my case on why mala is scum. if majiffy wants to throw his rattles around until people vote nick, that's fine by me. i'll only move my vote when necessary, or I'm absolutely convinced on nickscum.

EXCEPT YOUR NOT PUSHING MALA ARE YOU, HOW CAN YOU TELL ME YOU'RE NOT GOING UNDER THE RADAR

I could make a facebook status saying "Oh fuck Kony he should die" and claim i did something, but that's just words, you gotta actually suit up get off your bum bum and go to Africa with an assault rifle and a chocolate bar.

and remind me how much pushing you've done on me in this game? cos i can't recall a single interaction with you

[Mac]

Lol i push my scumreads, whatever the quality of my pushing is, be it cases or me being lazy. You can't recall any of it cause you're too busy flying under the radar, you can't even deny what I have said, how can you try to change the subject and expect to get away with it. You on the other hand haven't actually done ANYTHING whatsoever, therefore your argument is invalid flailing scum.

Mac is playing to his scummeta btw

what? i've made a case for why mala is scum and asked people to vote with me but everyone's just like "LOL JIFFYSHEEP" and there's not much i can work with there. hahahaha @ calling me flailing, i'm not even close to flailing.

oh yeah, what scum-meta? maybe you should listen to the people who can actually read me and know i'm town instead of wasting your time "pushing" for me being lynched for flying under the radar or whatever nonsense you are spouting.

[Mac]

To be fair mac, I'm not sheeping jiffy .

i know. but you won't vote the real scumz and instead continue to push a scumread that you based off 100 pages ago and have shown no interest in until someone else does.

it disappoints me td, it really does

[Mac]

i didn't realise we agreed on sorting mala tomorrow. as long as you promise

vote: nick

[Mac]

did you take your shoes?

[Mac]

what do you think of venmar cos i didn't like 3154 one bit.

[Mac]

good vote, wrong time desp.

[Mac]

the ftl hydra needs to explain their townread on mala. and not just "mala is cute i <3 cats omg" shit that's been spewing from ms lately.

REALLY not liking the dissonance in that hydra

[Mac]

transparent as one head, yes. as a hydra you are like "I'm not going to change my vote to mala til metal agrees" and then all of a sudden "GAMBITS WOO TELL ME YOUR ROLE PM AND LYNCH MALA!"

i highly doubt anyone will lynch mala for one of your awesome gambits varsoon, so you should maybe drop it

[Mac]

@ mac

your post to ftl about hydra dissonance was a bit disconcerting and it was the first time you made me go :/. I guess cos I think we are the textbook defo of hydra dissonance but it certainly is not intentional.

we try and bring it away from the thread and keep it in gchat. if we have dissonance, it is normally with good reason.

ITT metal sonic says "i love cats wont lynch mala weeeee"

[Mac]

oh and I lost all doubt that mac is town now.

is this a good or bad thing? i'm being a bit dense

[Mac]

dear venmar, td and apparently nick,

oh and I lost all doubt that mac is town now.

is this a good or bad thing? i'm being a bit dense

your town

take note. mollie can read me. you, on the other hand, cannot. let's find some real scum!

much love,

mac

[Mac]

@Mac

Mollie can't read me, why should I trust her read on you?

because she's town, and you should work with your townreads?

because we hydra together alot and she knows me better than every player in this game bar none?

[Mac]

mastin

how come a few pages ago you were talking about how town i was or whatever, and now you are entertaining the prospect? talking about some defence of malakittens who i've been pressing as my top scumread alll day long?

my bad

[Mac]

mastin
how come a few pages ago you were talking about how town i was or whatever, and now you are entertaining the prospect? talking about some defence of malakittens who i've been pressing as my top scumread alll day long?

You're near the bottom of my townlist, along-side Desperado. In other words, can slip into scum fairly easily. Your defense of Malakittens is present in your interactions with FTL, which heavily discouraged the plan to lynch Malakittens.

only based on the fact he wants to do it for a gambit which probably won't work (reason: it's varsoon) - I have outlined today I would lynch Mala in a heartbeat if her wagon gained steam but so far my efforts weren't working. so I switched to nick with the promise of getting Mala looked at in depth tomorrow. are you not reading my posts, mastin?

I have since been attacked by venmar for not pushing my reads, however when I counter his points with him being a hypocrite, it's okay for him to be lazy. td is just being derp and referring to his scumread on me which hasn't evolved from page 10 or whatever page it was. ffery is turning in her grave at the lack of trajectory in his iso. and nick is scumreading me for reasons unknown. now mastin has decided he's going to make up a reason that I was trying to "derail" a mala wagon when in fact I was derailing a useless gambit.

OH WHAT FUN!

[Mac]

sorry for the prod bork.

limited access 'til monday

will try and post at some point

[Mac]

VOTE: mac

day three. tiphainedeath is still pursuing an out of date scumread, choosing to focus on something that happened over 100 pages ago rather than what's happening now. plz try harder.

talk about the "way" mala has coasted and why it's "scummy"

very good question. alot of townies, myself included, became apathetic towards the end of the day yesterday. my reasoning was because no one was pushing mala with me at the time, and i was told to lynch nick and look at her tomorrow. gonna go over her posts a bit more in light of the nickflip when I get the time. i'm feeling muffin's frustration but I think mala could still be scum. is there a particular reason you don't want to lynch mala, muffin?

VOTE: Mac.

someone is really going to have to sell me on mastin-town. after campaigning all of day one how this was not my scum-meta, mastin has now reversed his read. despite me also pushing his top scumread mala yesterday. your accusations of me "derailing" a mala lynch (HINT: THERE WAS NO WAGON TO DERAIL) because i was against ftl's gambit is bullshit at best.

speaking of gambits, FTL, did you ever lay out how that would've worked and how you could confirm nacho along with nick?

Since mastin is APPARENTLY off the table,

Vote: BROSEIDON

. Still like mala's reaction to LE DEADS, still want her to post reads and shit. I don't remember the last time BRO did anything so let's just start here.

brb updating readslist

I would prefer mastin over bro at this point

@mala: If you think mastin is town, shouldn't you think venmar is town?

And yes mastin has a history of not voting his scumreads. Hence why he's scum!

Please stop this. Andy, short of sprouting sapphire dragon wings and flying off, I'm 1,000,000% sure that Mastin is Town. Convoluted at times, full of theories, but Town.

SELL IT TO ME GHOSTLIN. otherwise i might have to vote you today.

Well, we could start with Mac, who I've noticed is posting elsewhere but not here.

i made one post elsewhere. that was it. don't try and angle this to be scummy, thank you.

Well, we could start with Mac, who I've noticed is posting elsewhere but not here.

I have ~reasons~ for mac-town as of today, fwiw.

<3

I like ~reasons~

im really busy

but i had nice and loooooooooooooooooooooooong look at mac and i have decided the dude is town

vote: broseidon

its about time. this doesn't clear you, but im a bit happier about you now. and there are more important people to deal with. and you'll probably be PL'd before lylo.

Hey nacho, hey mac, you're both feeling rather dull at the moment, apathetic even. So am I. Let's have some wonderful thread orgies or something, 'cuz I really would like you two to be town so I have somebody to follow.

I am here! we can try and convince nacho to come and play. and find scum. what do you think of desperado?

ok, i'll get it up with you, ftl

Unvote
Vote: Trust Fund

nooo muffin this is so wrong. trust me for now that they are probably town. FTL is likely town too, but that doesn't mean they are right on TF.

I
Literally the only reason I'm back in the game right now of any strength is because of what happened last night. It made me care enough to get in here and post this musings and shit. I'll probably try getting back into the game tomorrow, but I just want you three knowing i'll be skipping at least half your shit.

why has it made you want to play the game again?

cabd, can you explain your meta on mastin?

I think it's key to say the ~reasons~ are that I neighbourised Trust Fund last night and we talked about reads and shit. both cabd and syr were happy to work with me, although the latter not so much (v/la I think?), so syr if you read this, can we finish our business from last night?

i'll send you the bill.

this is why I think they are town for now. i'm not completely sold yet, and I'd like to see more from you today.

vote: desp

until further notice.

complete side note but i fucking hate netbooks.

[Mac]

@ Mac: I'm confused by your vote. Ghostlin tries to scumpaint you and you threaten to vote him, but then vote me without any explanation? Even though I'm voting the guy you just threatened to vote...?

I can't remember a single thing you have done. as for voting ghostlin, only because he said he'd rather people vote him over "obvtown mastin" which I'm not seeing at all and still wishing for someone to explain.

[Mac]

varsoon you missed the question where i asked if you mapped out how your gambit worked anywhere?

[Mac]

@ Mac: I'm confused by your vote. Ghostlin tries to scumpaint you and you threaten to vote him, but then vote me without any explanation? Even though I'm voting the guy you just threatened to vote...?

I can't remember a single thing you have done. as for voting ghostlin, only because he said he'd rather people vote him over "obvtown mastin" which I'm not seeing at all and still wishing for someone to explain.

Maybe read my ISO or something? I'm not going to give you a greatest hits list but the notion that I "haven't done anything" is kind of insulting.

I might do. you should know that I did say "I can't remember" rather than flat out accusing you.

pedit - hey thats more memorable

[Mac]

varsoon you missed the question where i asked if you mapped out how your gambit worked anywhere?

Revealing it is actually pretty anti-town at this point.

Take my word for it. I might talk about it after I die, but not right now.


@Desp: Just ISO me, I'm not running your books for you,

how is talking about it after you die going to help us?

[Mac]

This is why Mastin is town.

Read this ISO from this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=26140

it's very similar to how Mastin is acting here. He's town. There is no room for error.

@Mac:

I got a question for you.

Was your neighborize a day time or night time action? Which phrase # did you do it?

day time. during day two.

[Mac]

oh. looking at mastin's reads, yeah i'm 99% sure he picked up on something i picked up on yesterday and this makes him town.

kinda thinking the same i think. not sold yet though

[Mac]

i am.

[Mac]

haha.

i am here, apologies. i lack a computer til the end of this week though, so I'll be

limited access

until then. will try and post

[Mac]

am I missing something here?

Aj claims 1 shot BP townie and says he tried his hardest to get shot on night one by being townie as fuck, right? meaning he used up his BP expecting to get shot.

...so how the fuck didnt he die n2?

[Mac]

Muffin, if you noticed, I took a very active role day 1 and was present the majority of the time around Mala and Rach.

Seriously, though: The writing is on the wall that Mala is scum this game.

I didn't realize that I became so damn outspoken when I had caught scum. The FTL thing was not TvT, that's a terrible assumption. Unfortunately, I'm probably going to end up on my second choice (nick) because I have two townreads and a conftown there right now.

(I thought this would be slightly more obvious than it was in hindsight, though I didn't really want to go blatant hint cop, draw a real claim and get the town in a whole shitton of trouble. I used an old religious reference of death after a truthful telling to reference where I'd go [hand of god, stated that he was displeased with Belshazzar, killed the King for his sins being to stating displeasure and going to get a guilty read] My major attempt was to make a soft hint at a possible action going to mala here. Leads to a stronger hint:)

Apparently, however, you have enough support that unless I really wanted to ram this case down everyone's throat, I'm just wasting my time on you.

I will be going for something more solid

. But Mala, inwardly you have to know this isn't your town game.

Mastin, who do you suggest we lynch first, then? Mala, since she has the strongest associative tells?

(I also was thinking of some of the nacho-relations that didn't make me feel too good about the slot, but I was thinking I was jumping at shadows to have him tied to Rach. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it).

Out of your reads, I think Andrius is wrong. It's Rach's counterwagon and Rach IS the connection to which everyone else (other than Nick, I really haven't found a place for him yet) fits. I really think today's lynch is rach or mala, then the other the next day.

P-edit: Mala, you tie to Rach, not nacho. If Nacho flipped scum, Rach still has to flip to incriminate you. And vice versa.

Mastin, walk me through Nick's connections and THEN we can talk about taking him first. Rach is my candidate right now, because if you're also seeing Nacho, she sticks at the center of this web.


...............Andrius
..................|
Mala-Rach-Nacho
...|.......|
...|---Venmar

And then Nick's all by himself. That's why I don't get why go to nick first. Sure the wagons help a bit, but I think that's a little more random than actual textual interaction.

This was me trying to see if Nick was

our traitor.

I couldn't find any real connection between him and the rest, and so I wanted to see if Mastin had an idea. Also, on the day 2 when he didn't go after mala with a case, I couldn't word that he might've been the mafia traitor without having to explain my own role in relation. It made sense to me, though, as the day went on. I had scum read him for a long time, he didn't seen to have any connections to mala yet flipped on her and the refused a case. So in my head, I had the traitor who felt he was owned and didn't want to drag a partner he may have known about down. Even without possibly knowing his partner, Mala was as good a guess as any for scum at that point and it was best for him not to tear at his own team.

Do I think Nick is scum? I wouldn't be surprised if he was. His posting hasn't been fantastic (As I will expand upon seeing as you so kindly asked) but it would be a little bit of a curve ball to my own thinking if he turned up scum. Throughout, as I've stated, his only consistent interactions with town reads are Bro and TD, both of which I have at varying degrees of town.

So after quoting through his iso, I found one post on top of what I saw that I really didn't like before (it's the last one in this, and I believe it's out of order so I can address it a bit more)

Spoiler:

@1381
Wow, you managed to make an entire reads list without saying or committing to anything. Scummy, although I don't know the meta, maybe this is par for the course.

I don't think Rach is a very good D1 lynch though, but if she keeps sitting on the fence day 2 i'll most certainly want to lynch her then.

We should be lynching Mastin

This.

Alright. This is part of the two-post important special for Nick and the main foundation of anything I have for him. First, we see he DISLIKES Rach's read list (which, fyi, is worse than anything Mastin put up this game), but denies that Rach is a good d1 lynch, saying they should be lynching mastin (off of wagon support formed from that '5 scum' comment mastin had). But,

I don't understand the Andrius case and don't like this idea of lynching Rach today. That said, I'd prefer Rach to nothing, so I guess I'll vote her, unless something convinces me Andrius is scum, which is actually possible, since I perhaps if someone actually explains that case I'll understand it.

I don't think Rach is a very good D1 lynch though

Why not?

Rach hasn't provided much content at all today, her reads sit on the fence so hard it's ver difficult to tell what she thinks of anyone. However, she has promised better reads and commentary day 2.

I agree that her behavior today has been scummy,

but hear me out.

Assume for the sake of argument that she doesn't provide any useful content during the rest of Day 1, which I think is a fairly passable assumption considering her current behavior.
During day 2, if she still fails to provide any useful content, we lynch her.
If she does provide useful content day 2, we should be able to use that content to get a more accurate read on her. If we decide she's town, we avoid a mislynch. If scum, we still lynch her, but now we have her better reads to use against her partners.

---

It's plainly obvious to me that a mac lynch isn't going to happen, so i'm in favor of a mastin lynch.

His reads look very artificial

, mimicking popular town ideas without providing any decent reasons, and his posts are largely useless and fluffy, either in the form of talking about how towny he is, talking about

how he has secret reads he won't tell us

, or talking about how he's lying about how confident he is. This comes accross to me as scum trying to look engaged while lacking any real scumhunting.

As to Andy, I need to Iso him again, if anyone could post a non-meta based case against him, that would be nice.

Bad all around. First, he suggests leaving a 'scummy player' around to get a better read on her. He suggests multiple times he sees her as scummy, but doesn't want her dead day 1. Now with her flip, I can almost tie Nick to Rach just for this. He's protecting a buddy. More than that, he's giving her a chance at a free pass in his mind, in favor of a mastin lynch which is made worse by his three expressed reasons.

1: Artificial reads. This really isn't true. Mastin had been giving and re-explaining reads all day. Plus, as mentioned by me (and Nick!) Rach's reads are awful. Terrible amounts of coaching would've gone on in the scum qt had Rach lived.
2: Lying about confidence. Come on, I explained this: You don't employ LaL for this.
3. Looking engaged, no scum hunting: Mastin was the first to voice that he thought Nacho/Rach could be a thing. He admitted that he was having trouble with this game at the begining and Nick has unfairly tried to pin this as an issue when, guess what, Rach had the same issue without ever trying to fix it. This post willingly admits that Nick has a connection to Rach.

Most importantly here, I was trying to find a way to bend Nick:Rach without saying "I think Nick is a traitor who possibly knows his partners and they don't know him" because that sounds stupid. He asserted Mala to be town with low interaction between them day 1. It turns out it was just an honest read, but I had that tagged as him supporting mala when her wagon had the least support. Rach was more obvious tying, as he took a weird "I can agree with lynching rach later" stance that I associated with "I can steer a lynch off today". And it, to me, made perfect sense why no one seemed to reciprocate anything to nick. (Oh, anything in green was me pointing out more to this post specifically)

It could, but it could also mean scum have leashed him in favor of keeping Mala alive. His case is delayed even with school (spoiler: 50% of this game is probably in school or college right about now) and I have a feeling it's going to come over really weak or mirroring one of the cases that has already been said. Though, you know as well as I do it isn't a hard task to find scummy posts in Mala's iso.

So FTL, now that Nick is 'playing against his wincon', what is your read on him? I figured as much for him not having anything for Malascum... but here's what's odd: He still holds that Mala is his strongest scum read. Even though he's too lazy/can't be bothered for a case like he promised for basically the last five days and stalled this day to hell and back. I think this is basically the nail confirming nick as scum.

Again, I was trying to suggest there was a connection without ever suggesting mala had reason to defend nick. To me, it made more sense if Nick WAS a traitor that he'd decide to stall out and hope for the best when he might've been infringing on his own team's plan. Everything he did was so non-committed with Mala, I felt as if he didn't no where to go that wouldn't hurt the team more. Theoretically, as traitor, Nick's hands would've been tied and he wouldn't have been able to make a move without seriously endangering his team, hence the 'leash' comment. Plus, Nick town reading mala and suddenly flipping when his wagon started seemed like more of an attempt to save mala than his own life.


Bro, it was a tad obvious Mutt was lying... Just the fact of a one shot vig in a large game with only one fraction would make this game take forever even with lynches and night kills consistent. Plus, I've never seen a one shot vig in a game this large. I suspect that he stayed alive more because scum didn't categorize him as a threat when he was away and inactive the majority of D2's latter half.

our traitor

our traitor

vote: AJ

[Mac]

if you jailkept me i shouldnt have been able to talk to trust fund, no?

[Mac]

This is an easy decision, really.

Mac, was your neighborizing me a passive or an active choice?

active but during day two

anyway I still think this claim is full of shit.

[Mac]

the thing that makes me want to believe this is as soon as i claimed neighbouriser mala was asking me if it was a day or night choice. this may just be a well prepared fake claim however.

ghostlin are you able to reveal said information?

[Mac]

the thing that makes me want to believe this is as soon as i claimed neighbouriser mala was asking me if it was a day or night choice. this may just be a well prepared fake claim however.

ghostlin are you able to reveal said information?

[Mac]

thank you for that nacho. do you care to comment on the game as it is? there is some rather important information being laid down that you are sweeping over.

[Mac]

im pretty much ready to hammer.

[Mac]

did you draw scum?

[Mac]

vote: Mala

[Mac]

notscience is gonna be alive to lylo isnt he

[Mac]

part of me really wants us to have a mass claim today

[Mac]

i would like to hear claims from desperado and FTL. those two are the only two people i want claims from today. possibly Nacho too.

also i have absolutely no idea who mastin was with. someone spell it out for me

[Mac]

voting cop-confirmed town is silly at the best of times but I'm going to out my claim now.

the reason i asked is I tracked you to trust fund last night and I was hoping the story matched the result. it does, but we have two cops claimed? not gonna lie, this sounds like a fake claim especally given that you visited someone who had already claimed they were not vanilla.

[Mac]

vote FTL

[Mac]

2 cents at the moment:

we now have 1 mod confirmed town, 1 non godfather cop confirmed town and a cop confirmed possible godfather town. atm it wouldnt surprise me to see a gf in this set up what with the vanilla/normal cop claims but i cant say i buy the vanilla cop claim at all.

heres my question varsoon: how did you gambit work at confirming nick and nacho? i dont give a shit if its anti-town, you have to spell it out.

at this stage I'd be willing to lynch Aj, desp and possibly FTL. maybe td based on godfather spec.

vote AJ

[Mac]

vote: nacho

nacho or aj.

nacho y u not town?

[Mac]

question for TD:

when are you going to do anything

[Mac]

and i am not contributing to the lynch on nacho

well seeing as you haven't participated in any of the scum lynches, i feel rather good about my nacho vote now.

in seriousness though, i don't think many of the people voting nacho think AJ is town. just that nacho is a better lynch.

this is a point. p sure both oour scum hammers have been followed by ftl going "aw darn too late!"

[Mac]

that post is fucking terrible.

[Mac]

v/la til Monday

[Mac]

Scum having all PRs with a Vanilla cop in play would be, like, shit-tier design, especially given how limited the town-power we have claimed at this point is.

Every town PR claim has been either not particularly implicitly super-powerful (IC), gated in some way (Anti's cop that goes away after 2 innocents, Wayne's 2-shot), or both (FTL's non-consecutive modifier, Mac's neighborizer, Mastin's whole role).

We also have 4 VT flips, and there are probably more VTs in play. No way scum is 5 PRs vs. that. That seems highly implausible.

are you reading the game because im not quite a neighbouriser and have claimed so. my role is pretty powerful but is indeed gated in it's own special way.

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: AJ

[Mac]

if aj doesnt explain why bork said to him "hey you are a bulletproof townie! and hey, here's another bonus; theres a traitor!" in his next post he should be hammered.

nacho might be town if aj scumflips. desperado next plz.

[Mac]

vote: desp

this is where i want to go i think. happy with a mass claim too. still not sold on ftl.

[Mac]

full claim: kahn wong, possessed warrior.

jack of all trades. 1 shot neighbourize, 1 shot track and 1 shot commute.

just for updates since people haven't quite gathered that im not just a neighbourizer.

[Mac]

mac sure is taking forever to claim night actions

sorry

i do this thing. called sleeping. but they are in the thread if you know where to look andy!

neighourized trust fund, tracked FTL to Trust Fund.

[Mac]

vote Bro

[Mac]

pedit2: I have 0 mod experience and have no idea how setups work.

then why wouldn't you listen to other people when they say "this is how setups work"?

I'll listen to NS, Wayne, TD, and Mac about how setups work, because they are the only ones that I consider 100% clear. I'll like 95% listen to Anti.

hello. set-ups work in mysterious ways, bro. it shouldn't take a confirmed town to tell you this, but listen to what everyone else has said. i don't know why you are throwing your toys out of the pram like this. why not listen to anyone else?

godfather = likely cop claims are legit. whether two cop claims are legit is another thing, but we'll get to that.

ps: we should let varsoon claim his results before we hammer.

[Mac]

someone remind me why we are killing andy here too?

[Mac]

why wayne over varsoon, by the way? that means whoever is scum knew varsoon wouldnt find anything new with his investigation, and i think thats too dangerous a game to play for scum. still thinking anti-hero is town.

also thinking nacho and andy are town, choices for me are between trust fund and varsoon.

[Mac]

yeah actually i dont suspect you that much. if i had to throw another name in it would be td :/

[Mac]

someone remind me why we are killing andy here too?

we're using andy's claimed supersaint/cop-like power

please try to keep up

no fucking shit.

whats the point when hes about a million percent town.

[Mac]

My major concern is if the game ends up with two/three of your green names alive in Lylo.

BTW if this happens I'm writing the game off as mod fuckery because that would mean fake inno child or multiple godfathers.

or mala used her redirect

[Mac]

enjoyed this game. wish id thrown more doubt on THE PLAN like i shouldve done though.

[Mac]

I WANNA PLAY TOO

[Mac]

<3