Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: 1baldeagle1

[zMuffinMan]

...

[zMuffinMan]

why did you go for vote freezer, baldeagle?

this seems fake

no shit.

[zMuffinMan]

<i>didn't</i>

lol

[zMuffinMan]

Oh. Damn, there's more than 3 scum in this game.

did you really think this game was like 18 town vs 3 scum?

So, when I'm confident in my scumreads, I can keep people on the wagons so they can't get so paranoid.

this is a really bad excuse.

---

So you considered bidding $101 on any of those abilities? Also, what made you decide to bid on Vote Freezer in particular? Did you bid more than $11 on it?

i don't like any of these questions.

[zMuffinMan]

well the second one is because it was already answered

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Lost Butterfly

[zMuffinMan]

Why do you find that post so suspicious? I mean, is it that unlikely that a townie would bid on investigation immune?

not directed at me, but while i don't find going for investigation immunity suspicious, i do think that if scum really wanted it, $80 wouldn't be enough to stop them from getting it. and i think you would know this. you never answered upside down's question about why you thought $80 would be enough to stop scum getting it.

[zMuffinMan]

We got Investigation Immune! I can't believe it was so cheap. We even bid $80 on it to keep it out of scum's hands.

this whole line seems completely fake, actually.

[zMuffinMan]

I guess I just thought $100 was too much to spend on an ability that was useless to me! And I wanted to save some extra money in the long term. We did consider going for $100, but then settled for $80. I'm not really sure what you think the difference between claiming $80 and $100 is.

no, it has nothing to do with claiming $80 instead of $100, it's that i don't believe you actually thought that bidding $80 would be enough to keep it out of scum's hands if they actually wanted it, and your first post suggested you bid $80 specifically for the reason of keeping it out of scum's hands.

besides, if your goal was to keep it out of scum's hands, why was $100 too much for that?

[zMuffinMan]

voided is scum

[zMuffinMan]

what's your current read on baldeagle?

maybe scum. i don't believe the "omg more than 3 scums!??!" thing, all the "misunderstandings" he's had about hthe setup look fake. why are you specifically asking me this?

Elaborate.

there was almost no content in #86. it's a wall full of meaningless questions and empty comments. he also completely avoided anything related to the LB votes, which is sus as fuck considering that's the main topic of conversation right now.

[zMuffinMan]

also there's an incredible amount of iioa and fluff in all of baldy's posts, compared to zero actual content.

[zMuffinMan]

P-EDIT: LB's fine, leave them be.

do you think LB is town? or you just don't think they're scum?

Not really. Nice try generalizing, though.

i wasn't generalising. i couldn't find anything i liked about your initial wall, outside of maybe the baldeagle vote, but you changed your mind on that shortly after and now you're voting prohawk for reasons you haven't explained. it seems to have something to do with #103, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[zMuffinMan]

@voided,

why couldn't LB be other mafia if baldy is scum? what about LB's most recent post did you like (or think is town)?

and i don't see anything particularly telling one way or another about #103. why did you think it was scummy enough to warrant a vote?

also what happened to you thinking baldeagle was just out of his depth in a large game? that read reversed again rather quickly.

[zMuffinMan]

I thought baldeagle looked really obviously town past a certain point

which point? give me specific post numbers that made you think this if you don't want to quote wall.

I didn't like that you weren't picking up on the same things I was re: bald. I feel like this is the kind of VI read scum cling more naturally to.

*shrug* the reason i said "maybe scum" is because i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt right now that he

could

just be a bewildered VI.

[zMuffinMan]

because if town wanted neighbouriser they'd likely advertise for it, and therefore wouldn't be able to pay $100 for it

[zMuffinMan]

It's possible, sure, but I don't see why that's likely right now.

that wasn't really what i was asking. you are calling them town partially because baldeagle is attacking them. even if bussing weren't an extremely common tactic and even if you're right about baldeagle, LB could be other scum so baldeagle attacking LB shouldn't make you think LB is town just because you're scumreading baldeagle.

Him appearing to be out of his depths has no real relevance to my scumread on him, as it's not based on that. I meant what I said when I said that.

why did you unvote and vote prohawk? i assumed that had something to do with you changing your mind about baldeagle. apparently not.

[zMuffinMan]

thanks for the game mechanics explanation tammy we didn't realise fairly sure that makes us confirmed town

lol

Not a big fan of the baldeagle wagon. I get the case on him and I agree that he looks bad but unless he's an alt he's prob just a silly newbie. His wagon is also kinda fast so its prob scum driven. Mhork?

but this is likely scum.

Eagle's good enough to fake that.

vote:harakiri

...

what baldeagle wagon?
you get the case on him and agree he looks bad but think it's scum driven?
why did you mention mhork here?
how does that make harakiri scum?

thoughts on LB?

[zMuffinMan]

@LB,

what's your read on voided?

[zMuffinMan]

I'm looking at his ISO and not sure there's one specific quote so much as just the overall way he's playing.

you said beyond a certain point, so i assumed there was a specific post that first gave you this impression.

He could have easily lurked, but instead he's being really active and engaged, and he just looks earnest

if his plan was to fake ignorance of the setup and play the newbie card to look town, it doesn't really surprise me that he's "active" rather than lurking.

He doesn't exactly strike me as a Fate-style player who revels in pushing false cases as scum.

considering he was the other wagon happening at the time, it doesn't particularly strike me as him "reveling" in pushing a case on you.

but does he really seem calculated enough to do all of them?

i don't think the specifics of it were calculated, but i do think he could have planned feigning ignorance without thinking about the specifics. i think this is more likely than baldy genuinely being this dense. the 3 scum thing is the most blatant of these, but another example is, "omg scum started with more than $100?!?!" i mean, anyone with half a brain can figure out that there's

something

going on when there are bids of more than $100, and if he's town he should be wondering how the fuck that happened and thinking about how it happened, not saying what he said.

how do you think he would be playing if he was town?

i don't know. i've never played with him before. i just don't believe the bewildered stuff looks genuine. outside of the ignorance that looks faked, i don't really have a problem with him that couldn't be attributed to me not liking his playstyle. i don't see why you're convinced he's town, though.

[zMuffinMan]

Given how little I'm liking bald's push on them, I'm starting to think they're town. At the very least I don't think they're scum. I like their most recent post as well.

^^ I kinda think this is townish just because I feel like even if it's faulty it was him trying to apply a genuine reason to get a read on us.

really? i had the complete opposite reaction to this. it looks like him making up a reason and not thinking about it from a town perspective (he should know it's faulty logic).

i don't understand why you don't think his ignorance is sincere, he seems kind of an idiot

the sheer volume of it. it reminds me of other times i've seen it done and overplayed. take, for example, neil's ISO in this game. multiple posts at the beginning of the game, faking ignorance of the setup.

i don't understand why you're writing it off as sincere.

[zMuffinMan]

How about a game baldeagle played? viewtopic.php?f=51&t=31132

He was town psychologist. He had to claim on day 1 because of the lolscum reaction to his play.

what about it?

Again, what reason is there that I have to believe that LB is opposite scum to Baldeagle?

no... the point is you

shouldn't be assuming it isn't the case

, and you are assuming that.

it's the equivalent to calling someone town in a known multiball game because someone you're scum reading is calling that person scum.

it's fucking stupid. it's faulty logic, and if you were actually town you'd know this.

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: Voidedmafia

[zMuffinMan]

That's not assuming anything.

yes it is. you're assuming that because you think baldy is scum, LB is more likely town.

[zMuffinMan]

i compared it to the play of someone else because it was the same tactic.

[zMuffinMan]

the game i linked, neil (scum) feigns ignorance of the setup over multiple posts in the early game for towncred. he literally stated this in the scum qt, but didn't plan exactly how he would do it. lots of people wrote him off as town in the early game because of it (including moi, lolol). it's similar to what baldeagle was doing here.

a players logic doesn't get more dumb with a scum pm

the logic is that he isn't thinking about it from the perspective he's town looking at two factions because he's in one of those factions.

[zMuffinMan]

When things slow down here, please read his iso in that game.

what am i looking for if i read it?

[zMuffinMan]

Stuff like not getting the game mechanic and a flurry of questions about the strategy town was discussing.

i briefly looked at it. it's not really similar to what i'm talking about here. confusion about strategy with tracker/hider etc is different to claiming he thought there were only three scum in a 21-player game, or being totally ignorant to the bids of over $100 on PRs.

the other parallels are meh - easily emulated.

do you think he's town here because his play looks somewhat similar to that game or something?

[zMuffinMan]

hey upside down,

who's scum?

[zMuffinMan]

@upside down,

who else?

what's your read on lb, voided, baldy?

[zMuffinMan]

i don't even think that was nacho making the vote

[zMuffinMan]

He finds his reasons for pushing Voided to be very mechanical and crappy.

what does he think my reasons are?

[zMuffinMan]

ok. that has very little to do with why i think voided is scum.

[zMuffinMan]

I am surprised this answer was good enough for you muffinman

you're being a useless sack of shit. i don't see a point in further questioning right now.

@LB,

what's your current read on voided?

[zMuffinMan]

(Also, hi Voided, sorry you're scum in this game.)

But...But...That's not true!

this?

[zMuffinMan]

I agree with upside down's 372 in regards to Muffinman.

... you think that's what i was saying?

[zMuffinMan]

quote is voided, not lb, whatver

[zMuffinMan]

Your read on me is pretty much based on my read on LB, so...yeah.

no it isn't. and you know this. the initial read on you came from your entrance to the game, and i talked a little about why i didn't like this at all. then there's your prohawk vote while saying baldeagle looked like he was out of his depth, followed by a revote on bald. my issues with your LB read came after that.

that's why i asked what faraday thought my reasons were.

why are you still voting bald, btw?

[zMuffinMan]

Cabd isn't around, but he and I discussed prohawk earlier.

We feel like he's kinda avoiding the thread atm. And we didn't like that his major contribution to the game last night was a pretty much gratuitous injection of morph-fery meta wifom.

Your thinking he seems town is making me feel a little squinty-eyed.

not directed at me, but i liked prohawk's entrance in the game, mostly because his thoughts were in line with mine about LB and baldeagle (this was before either wagon really had a following, iirc). the attack on baldeagle for the quote tag stuff is the only thing that i didn't particularly like about prohawk.

Like Mhurk Wagon, don't like Voided wagon. Mainly focused on sorting Cabd/ffery, Nacho/Empire, and Zmuffin right now.

guessing this is the nati head. why do you like the mhork wagon and why don't you like the voided wagon?

---

@Garuda,

Spoiler:

I don't recall, but that doesn't make him scum.

I liked this.

The day will end when the day will end. We can start worrying when it gets to be near 10 days, if you're that worried about it. Rushing lynching just for the sake of money won't get us anywhere.

I liked this a lot.

Your misrepresentation of my post is cute, though. (unless it's not at me, but still.)

I liked this.

This kind of self-boasting never rubs me the right way.

I liked this.

A.) I'm busy doing more than just this game. Don't worry your little butts.

I liked this.

P-EDIT: Please. On that note, Cabd and Ffery, stop boosting each other in-thread.

I liked this.

i'm null on like all of those quotes. i don't see town tone in any of them and they're all pretty alignment-neutral posts. why did you like them?

---

@LB,

why did you originally think mhork was scum? prior to his reactions to your vote. i went over your ISO to look for the reason but couldn't actually find one.

UNVOTE

why?

who are you currently thinking about voting?

Garuda, do you think it's possible whomever put money towards medium was scum trying to flood the market with useless junk?

zdenek advertised medium, didn't he? do you think he's scum?

[zMuffinMan]

We've talked about sharing what we advertised on N0.

Go forward with that?

is anyone even keeping track of this? fwiw, i advertised nothing N0.

ignoring posts where Faraday is trolling/insulting/whatever-ing Tammy, I have liked their thought process

which thought process/es?

voided is scum

I had the opposite reaction, actually.

uhhhh... what was town about his entrance to the game?

[zMuffinMan]

I have both the investigation immunity and the hitman abilities, bitches.

Also, I think everyone should claim if they advertised or what they advertised on. Not the actual amount.

medium

why did you advertise medium and not go for it, btw?

Voided's town read on Lost Butterfly on account of baldeagle's attacks makes no sense. It's probably a contrived justification for a read.

qft

[zMuffinMan]

The $3 doublevote also points towards town to me, just don't think coordinated scum would do that this early.

what does this mean?

[zMuffinMan]

What are your thoughts on Mhork?

probably town. i didn't mind his early posts that much, it felt like he was trying to find his feet in the game. his more recent posts read genuine, including the paranoia in his last post about the medium advertising (even though i think that's misguided).

[zMuffinMan]

Seanald, Klick and to a lesser extent Hermy don't look so good.

i actually liked seanald's entrance. tone of the post read arrogant town.

other two i'm kind of meh on.

[zMuffinMan]

hm

Unvote
Vote: BBMolla

[zMuffinMan]

Molly town

is this bbmolla?

i went over his ISO earlier today and didn't like it at all. which posts from him read town?

rest of your reads i'm mostly in agreement with, except i'm nulltown on LB atm (i like some of the stuff the mina half is saying), and i'm not currently leaning scum on morph.

Especially since he advertised without trying to actually get it, and it most definitely was not a matter of it being too expensive? Why would town put money towards it?

i dunno, that's why i asked him. i don't really see scum going, "oh, i should claim to have advertised this for shits and giggles!" though.

it's possible he advertised it intending to go for it but changed his mind when he saw other stuff up for grabs. *shrug*

Player	Advertised n0	Bid on n0
VoidedMafia
PeregrineV
Nero Cain
Seanald
guille2015
Lost Butterfly (a hydra of Faraday and Mina)
Garuda (a hydra of Empire and Nachomamma8)
Pyrotechnics (a hydra of Syryana and Tammy)	adv 0	bid on neigh, didn't get it
morph the cat (a hydra of Cabd and fferyllt)	Neighborizer, Doctor, Watcher
BBmolla
Banakai
Harakiri (hydra of Natirasha and Sakura Hana)
uʍop ǝpısdn (a hydra of N and Quilford)	Cop and Medium	everything - didn't win any
zMuffinMan	Nothing
Hermy
ProHawk
Lord Mhork	Nothing	Cop, Gravedigger, Medium (won)
Zdenek
1baldeagle1
DoctorPepper
Klick

@upside down,

you bet <=$2 on medium and extra vote?

[zMuffinMan]

he trusts you to blindly sheep nacho?

[zMuffinMan]

But I think part of it is I believe he's genuine in his night actions, which doesn't mean town.

i don't think anyone is really writing mhork off as town for the claimed actions.

(Someone do the math, at 100 starting does doing what he did end up 89? Just checking)

it does. no advertising, -$3 for medium, -$5 for cop, -$3 for gravedigger.

do you have scum reads outside of voided?

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: Voidedmafia

[zMuffinMan]

Also the idea that this is like the only scumread Nacho and Empire agree on ('sync achieved')

now that you mention it, i'm interested in this, too. i kind of want to know what they discussed when they synced, such that their top scum read (or the only one they agreed on?) was someone with a single post.

hi what do you think of deadline being played while he was a top wagon?

not directed at me, but mhork was actually the top wagon at the time with 5 votes, and voided and LB were both on 4 votes. but it's also possible the deadline ability was used at an earlier time between 275 and 451.

[zMuffinMan]

nah, not the complaint itself, more him thinking he can get away with not contributing until D2. the overall tone of the post sounded townish. arrogant probably wasn't the right word.

is that really all you had to comment on in the last 20 or so pages?

[zMuffinMan]

@voided,

you weren't

the

top wagon, like upside down implied, and you may not have even really had a wagon when deadline was actually used, since magua wasn't around for like 10 pages and it could have happened at any time during those pages.

[zMuffinMan]

For reasons that have pretty much been listed. I've seen his gameplay and ISO and voided is marginally scummier than Harakiri. Though at this point both of them could possibly be scum. Though if it has to be one, I'm thinking voided.

this is really wishy-washy

Garuda - Did you guys ever answer what it was about Klick's one post that gave you both a scum read?

i believe nacho said the whole post is scummy. though he never went into specifically why he thought this.

I can't until Harakiri flips scum or they try and argue with me but no, they are avoiding me like the plague 'cause they know that arguing with me will only bring attention to themselves.

avoiding what argument with you? you don't

have

an argument.

[zMuffinMan]

er yeah, i misread it

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: Hermy

[zMuffinMan]

Not really a fan of any of the lead wagons, however I could get on a Harakiri lynch.

who do you actually think is scum, then?

i don't think harakiri is scum. or at least, i haven't seen anything that suggests they are scum. the fact that the nati half hasn't even attempted to buddy anyone yet, and is being rather reserved in his reads on nacho, ffery and myself after a few recently finished games, is a point in their favour, i think.

But the fact she voted for Voided made me like it because she was helping us get a lynch quickly.

what would you have expected hermy to do differently as scum?

[zMuffinMan]

16. ProHawk - On the basis of his replies to Cabd, me.

is this referring to 542? because iirc you didn't like all his earlier responses to you.

Scum
1. VoidedMafia - waffling between top of this list and bottom of null list.
21. Klick
15. Hermy

are you going to vote one of these players?

---

Posturing.

459? how? the second line of 459 was kind of meh but i don't know what you mean by posturing here.

[zMuffinMan]

it comes not too long after Deadline is activated and it just feels like he's trying to fake being blindsided by it.

maybe. but that seems like a rather dumb post to make as scum shortly after the deadline ability was used.

i also think 757 looked more townish than scum.

[zMuffinMan]

I still think her "I don't sheep Nacho" is just a cheeky scumbut answer.

what's the difference between a cheeky answer and a cheeky "scumbut" answer?

remind me what your reasons for thinking harakiri is scum are.

Not voting Hermy.

why not?

---

i'll advertise tracker

[zMuffinMan]

hey nero, #854

[zMuffinMan]

1st, 4th and 5th point aren't really points (selfvoting is something nati does every game? sheeping nacho is something sakura hana does in games with nacho? 5th is really meh). 6th point is nonsense since it wasn't a contradiction at all.

i'm pretty sure 159 and 171 were different heads (nati 159 and sakura hana 171), so that 3rd point isn't really a point, either.

2nd point is meh.

none of those reasons are very strong. since you've been sitting on that vote and calling them scum, i figured you had something more substantial than that.

pedit: yeah whatever

[zMuffinMan]

voided said he won EV

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Seanald

672

lol. walk me through why you think this makes him scum.

Vote: Voidedmafia

where does this vote come from? you guys were (or at least nacho was) pretty heavily against the idea of voided being scum yesterday. what changed overnight?

The ability that I advertised in this column is not there, unless the amount I advertised for wasn't enough.

if you advertised it after N0 ended, it didn't show up for N1. why wouldn't you ask magua about this, though?

Fair enough, but I think there's other things to focus on right now until Seanald can give us more to work with.

really? like what, and why aren't you focusing on these other things?

[zMuffinMan]

Because Prohawk's reasons for voting us were terrible and he had the opportunity to hammer before deadline but didn't take it.

eh, prohawk's reasons were terrible, but nero's were worse. what's your opinion of nero?

I am scum for not hammering obv-town.

why did you think hermy was "obvtown"? you said you thought hermy wasn't scum, but that's a leap from obvtown.

also that was a pretty fucking weak defense of hermy if you actually thought she was obvtown.

---

advertised tracker

i wanna go back over the hermy wagon and the end of d1.

[zMuffinMan]

your reasons were fucking terrible. LB even walked you through this yesterday.

[zMuffinMan]

you actually think natirasha's self-voting every game is a scum tell because "in your experience" scum do it?

[zMuffinMan]

but the voting while placing responsibility on someone else is

also

a null tell if sakura does it every game with nacho (and this was also covered yesterday, so don't pretend like people are ignoring it). soooooooooooooooo that's two of your major points down the drain. and you're left with harakiri being your strongest scum read because of a bit of fluff with a lot of excuses. which posts are you referring to with this?

also you never once called hermy town, or anything close to "obvtown". you just mentioned her play was standard for a newbie and said you didn't think she was scum.

[zMuffinMan]

@morph

why? i don't think klick is scum

@nati,

scum reads outside of prohawk?

[zMuffinMan]

We kinda disagree, then. This looks like a hugely opportunistic push.

the prohawk push? meh. it might be, but i don't think it is.

Hey you huge bolded people ENGAGE US ON THIS SHIT.

why don't

you

engage those people? you've barely asked me anything this game.

are those reads still the same, btw? did you discuss anything over the night phase?

[zMuffinMan]

DO you disagree with any of the townreads in that list?

completely null on banakai - i'm not reading his initial posts the same way you apparently are.
prohawk i'm still sorting. not a town read, though.
LB and garuda i don't feel anywhere near as strongly about as you apparently do. i liked some of mina's posts in the later portion of D1, but that's about it for LB. garuda i'm really meh on right now. i didn't really like nacho's reasoning for the voided town read and i don't remember much the empire head has done outside of iioa.

apart from the klick scum read and some of the null reads, most of your other reads are in line with my own.

[zMuffinMan]

And this didn't worry you in the least? Mafia 101.

...

this is a really dumb question.

What did you think of Klick's back-off of prohawk after we snarled?

i don't think it has anything to do with you "snarling"

It's ok hawkie I don't think he is.

you changed your mind about mhork?

[zMuffinMan]

people who keep saying that prohawk not voting hermy is evidence he thought hermy was obvtown are missing the point entirely. the issue isn't what his read was, but how he came about that read (i mean, fuck, if hermy was so obvtown then WHY WAS PROHAWK THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT IT WAS OBVIOUS FOR REASONS THAT MAKE NO SENSE?) and why he did nothing with that read if it was so fucking obvious to him (which is more interesting given he's now criticising mhork's weak D1 play).

[zMuffinMan]

More of a kinda cashcabd feel here, from both of us, actually.

how? his play here isn't at all similar to what i remember from that game. i liked his thought processes in that game, even if they weren't at all in line with mine. i see none of that here.

[zMuffinMan]

If this makes me scum, then WHY ARE YOU NOT VOTING ME???

i'm not sure it makes you scum. like i told morph, i'm still in the process of sorting you.

My reasons may make no sense to you, but they are logical, and I do hope when this is all over you reflect on what happened/how it happened, because it was accurate.

you happening to be right doesn't actually mean your thought process was logical. the same as if harakiri is scum, it wouldn't mean your argument for it is any less flawed.

My working hypothesis, however is that it was heavily scum-driven who made the wagon look appealing.

LB, harakiri... who else? and why is that your working hypothesis? how does voided and his wagon factor into this hypothesis?

Muffin, can you explain the Klick town read?

it has to do with the way i was reading the tone of his posts at the end of yesterday (and today), the way he's sorting his reads today (i like it, and i don't really know why morph doesn't), and his claimed (lack of) night actions. it's not a strong town read, but it's far from a scum read.

[zMuffinMan]

I don't think you know what IIoA means if you're saying this about my posts.

i don't remember anything notable you've done outside of talking about the setup and talking about claims and co-operating with town reads and whatnot.

[zMuffinMan]

please stop

1110 is the only post in the last 4 pages i enjoyed reading

[zMuffinMan]

In other news, I am talking to drunk-Nacho right now and he agrees with my townreads on LB / Pyro / ProHawk / morph (he's more confident on the last one than I am apparently) so that's good.

did you tell him you're voting voided? what did he say about that?

[zMuffinMan]

i think you're town, pyro. i'm not sure about morph.

the argument isn't doing anything to change this. it's just noise. and it's fucking annoying.

[zMuffinMan]

^Are both of these legit townslips, not-on-killing-team slips, or neither?

neither

although they both come from town, i think.

So when you actually want to sit the fuck down and talk to me in a manner where you don't come across as a colossal shitlord

i hear calling people a "colossal shitlord" is a good way to get people to stop being a "colossal shitlord"

...

[zMuffinMan]

This is probably getting into MD stuffs, but why is this?

i like flips. even town flips can be helpful for poe.

Are you sure you've got the right person? Muffinman called me a useless sack of shit yesterday and now I can't take praise.

i think i was right at the time.

[zMuffinMan]

What did you learn from Hermy's flip?

mostly that it's possible for me to make mistakes

[zMuffinMan]

i actually want to look over the wagon and the end of d1 again but i haven't done it yet.

[zMuffinMan]

You cannot get angry at me that I didn't take your word for it that you were town. you can not also say oh you didn't sit down and talk to me about my town read on myself, which means you were talking me to me about your town read on someone else. Which in that game, I was fucking right about scum.

pyro,

the next time you write a post i want you to preview it and think about whether it's actually game-relevant. suppose you're right about your scum reads. you're not helping your case here.

i'm also actually more interested in your reads outside of LB and morph atm

[zMuffinMan]

do you have a read on voided?

[zMuffinMan]

@pyro,

fair enough.

i agree with the nero prob-scum read. i'll get back to you on morph.

[zMuffinMan]

it's true, he only called his other head obvtown. that implies nothing about his own alignment.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh and if anyone is wondering why this is N scum. This is fake content. He can't possibly be concerned over whether or not I would carry on my neighborizer crusade.
<snip>
So, why is he trying to make a big deal with me about it? He's scum, that's why.

nah. i think you're overreacting a bit. i really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hate N's posting style, but your reasoning here is weak.

i also think N could be right about Quilford.

Other good wagons are Mhork and Harakiri

if your reasons for thinking harakiri is scum are the same as they were at the end of yesterday, then meh. what are your other reads/thoughts?

I felt like the reasoning used "oh you didn't use the word obv-town yesterday" was twisting.

that had nothing to do with why anyone thinks/thought prohawk is scum.

Everyone else is either null and pending second looks (muffin, BB, Nero, maybe Harakiri) or are just complete non-entities to me (anyone else that isn't a scumread).

... so you have 5 scum reads, 2 town reads, and 12 null reads?

I really like Nero for town, pretty solid read for me.

why?

who do you think is scum?

Nero comes off as town on this page. Mhork's arguments are very bad, but I don't think he's scum. He seems too oblivious to how bad his arguments are.

i got the exact opposite impression. nero's argument against mhork is horrendous. if you can say 1264 is a good post and keep a straight face, then you're a phenomenal liar.

I want to lynch Pyrotechnics. They produced too much setup spec and prior games analysis Day 1. Their incessant arguing with other players reads less genuine and more as a means to manufacture emotion. They seem to be attacking people for what they perceive as being incorrect rather than attacking people for what they perceive as being scummy. Also, they're hugely obnoxious.

eh. i don't see it. pyro looks pretty town.

[zMuffinMan]

Now imagine the lynch of another potential wagon (you, LB, Harakiri, etc). How much more information would we have been able to glean from one of those flips?

probably about the same, really. i think you're overstating how "bad" a lynch hermy was. if, for example, harakiri had gotten lynched and flipped town, we would be in the same situation. i can't tell if you're being naively ignorant about this or simply ignoring it to make your point.

Of all the analysis I could come up with, UpsideDown is the one that looks the most off on the Hermy wagon.

er... why? and what happened to you being so vehement in your belief that Harakiri and, to a lesser extent, LB are scum?

Which part of the ability makes you think it benefits town?

why would scum publicly claim to have advertised an ability that doesn't benefit town?

[zMuffinMan]

I could see scum going, "Shit, I have to claim I advertised something!"

...

[zMuffinMan]

i dunno. i've seen some pretty stupid fucking claims this game from more than seanald, though, so i don't see your point here. e.g. baldeagle wanted to advertise governor, and voided advertising EV.

seems a null point.

what are your other thoughts on the game?

[zMuffinMan]

ok. i was more asking about your thoughts on other players.

[zMuffinMan]

hmm

Vote: Nero Cain

[zMuffinMan]

Morph is a strong townread for me, somehow.

why?

Both look pretty town right now but they don't have scumgames that I'm willing to dismiss easily.

i actually think my scum game can be rather transparent if you know what to look for.

Ok so he missed 19 pages, and JUST so happens to post right when the deadline is activated, and it is all about how he has a short amount of time to read it. Im scum reading this, not sure if Klick is the one who used the deadline or on the team that used it.

this is rather stupid.

[zMuffinMan]

no.

you're an idiot.

[zMuffinMan]

dribble

drivel*

What's Nero done?

this is actually the point. what

has

Nero done?

he's obviously following the thread, at least well enough that he can comment on minor things here and there sprinkled throughout the thread, yet he's managed to avoid commenting on every major event, and avoid mentioning most of the people who are playing this game. not only that, but when you look at the reasons for the few reads he's actually given, they're pretty fucking shit. nero's being a non-presence in this game. nothing to do with his post count and everything to do with him coasting on little content.

the argument he had with mhork is just the icing on the cake, here, and i don't know how people think Nero came out looking better from that. did any of you actually look at Nero's argument there?

the only good thing i can see in nero's iso is a voided vote, but i'm having second thoughts about voided atm so i'm not even sure that's a good thing.

[zMuffinMan]

<snip>
Hmm no that's not what you quoted at all.
<snip>
VOTE: Voided

was this the straw that broke the camel's back or is this the only reason you think voided is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

I think you are playing like normal crappy Muffin.

flattery will get you nowhere

[zMuffinMan]

1264 was a horrible post. even by nero standards. especially the last line.

[zMuffinMan]

What do you think that would mean?

i dunno. that they think i'm scum who's lurking? i wouldn't think of it as anything significant, especially if someone did that to me when i'm town. and i certainly wouldn't be like, "omg you're a fucking liar, i totally didn't post after you voted me!" when that clearly was the case.

mhork is right. what he said

is a fact

. maybe not a significant fact, but a fact nonetheless. you overreacting to it is funny. the last line of 1264 is especially horrible because it implies you actually think voided is town.

[zMuffinMan]

wait you... advertised love potion and vote freezer?

[zMuffinMan]

So.....you'd think it would mean they are calling you lurking scum but when I think the same thing its wrong?

you're an absolute moron

[zMuffinMan]

like... how fucking dumb are you?

@MOD,

Can we replace Nero with a doorknob?

Need something a bit more intelligent in that slot.

[zMuffinMan]

you

did

start posting after mhork voted you. him pointing this out isn't incorrect. it's a fucking fact, you absolute [REDACTED] [REDACTED]. like i said, it may not be a significant fact, but you're calling him a liar and claiming he's scum for pointing out it's a fact when it is a fucking fact, you [REDACTED] pile of [REDACTED].

and yes, the last line of 1264 implies you think voided is town, because how the fuck would mhork get town cred for defending scum?

[zMuffinMan]

also explain why you advertised love potion and vote freezer, because both of those are pretty antitown and would have been better dying off with no advertising

[zMuffinMan]

YOU ILLETERATE FUCKTARD.

thanks. i need to clean my keyboard because i spit all over it laughing at this.

brb.

[zMuffinMan]

nero,

i'll make this as simple as possible, in as civilised a manner as i can manage.

i agree, mhork

was

implying that you're lurking scum who showed up because he put a vote down on you. but what he was saying, that you showed up after he voted you,

is a fact

. i do not think it's scummy that mhork did this. it seems a fairly standard thing to comment on, and a fairly common way to gauge reactions of a player you're voting. why don't you explain why it's a scummy thing for mhork to do?

i think the last line of 1264 implies that you think voided is town, because why else would you suggest that you think mhork could be going for "town cred" defending voided? why don't you explain what you meant by this?

and finally, answer the question that i'm now asking you for the third time: why did you choose to advertise love potion and vote freezer?

[zMuffinMan]

?

i'm not voting nero solely because of that

[zMuffinMan]

i'm not saying it

couldn't

be relevant, just that you pushing someone as scum for nothing other than their publicly claimed advertising choice is silly.

[zMuffinMan]

@PV,

i can't think of a town use for any of them (outside of gambits and keeping them out of scum's hands). i can think of potential scum uses for all of them.

but you're missing my point. i can potentially see someone who... isn't exactly the brighest bulb, for lack of a better euphemism... thinking advertising those abilities is a good idea. it is something i think should be questioned, but it's not necessarily something that makes them scum.

[zMuffinMan]

^Holy fuck we are never ever ever lynching that, if this thing is scum we already lost.

how do your current reads compare with this?

pyro, harakiri
mhork, zdenek, upsidedown, pieguyn
klick, LB, bald, garuda, PV
prohawk
seanald
bb
dr pepper
voided
nero

your name and banakai excluded

[zMuffinMan]

OK... i disagree that those are acceptable town uses of the first two (they're still antitown no matter how you look at it), but that's all besides the point i was making, soooooooooo i'm really not sure why you keep bringing it up or what you're getting at here?

[zMuffinMan]

...

nope

your reason is just shit. even LB, who

agrees

that seanald should be questioned, knows that your reason is shit.

[zMuffinMan]

you're hitting me with a chicken, and everyone is going, "why are you hitting muffin with a chicken?" and you're claiming it's a duck

[zMuffinMan]

you're so lost

[zMuffinMan]

Wrong. Harakiri had interactions with players that would have been significant. Harakiri threw votes down for multiple people (Harakiri, Butterfly, Voided, Mhork, Senald, and Hermy). There were arguments for and against Harakiri being scum, and arguments that had more substance than the few quickly placed arguments for the lynch of Hermy.

even though the last sentence is wrong, you're vastly overestimating how "useful" that information is. plus information lynching is meh compared to lynching someone you actually think is scum.

superiority complex

...

In the Cash Cabd, what was the average percentage breakdown of posts made by you vs your partner?

100%. my hydra partner had IRL issues very shortly after the game started and never actually posted anything.

[zMuffinMan]

As hard as it is to imagine town thinking that auctioning austerity measures is a good idea, it's even harder to imagine scum thinking it's a good idea to say you bought that crap.

it's nullish because he is either town who thinks it's a good idea (as evidenced by his posts from a couple pages ago), or he's scum who thinks it's a good idea for town (as evidenced by his posts from a couple pages ago). there is no other reason to publicly mention it, otherwise. this is why PV is wrong in saying it's necessarily scummy.

I didn't like his posts day 1, particularly the uh, fucking "here's my scumteam lol ez" post which felt fake confidence but I don't think he'd do what he just do as scum.

the "lol this is EZ" is part of why i've been townreading him for a while now. :/

I've downgraded zmuffin a step mostly out of paranoia.

would it help if i told you i'm town?

i'm town.

[zMuffinMan]

er... i wouldn't exactly say anything "changed" in my read on baldeagle. the only issue i really had with him was his initial posts about the setup sounding really fake. i've had him as a sort of weak townread since some time later in D1. i don't remember speciifcally when, but it had to do with the way he was pushing his reads at the time and his general approach to the game. his posts today are most of the same.

and banakai is the only player i haven't formed a read on one way or the other. i didn't know where to put him in that list so i just left him out.

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think nero's rage in this game looks genuine. like maybe the rage at me because he doesn't get he's wrong, but that's alignment-null rage based on thinking he's right in the argument. the stuff directed at mhork looks pretty meh, though.

[zMuffinMan]

pieguy was guille i think

[zMuffinMan]

I don't know why you think Klick isn't capable of faking all that crap? I've seen him replace out as mafia in very similar circumstances before.

link?

[zMuffinMan]

it's OK i think i found it (haven't read it yet)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=23495

[zMuffinMan]

yeah tierce thought it was a strategic replace out, but i don't think it was. and the situation was a bit different to here.

meh, i still think he looks townish.

i'll probably switch to voided if the nero wagon doesn't pick up any steam soon.

[zMuffinMan]

I Love your muffin scum read. Where'd you get it?

nero has a tendency to call almost everyone who calls him scum, scum. it shouldn't be surprising.

The fact that he's saying that you DID imply I was lurking scum but fence sitting on the issue and saying that you were also just pointing it out [that I posted after you voted me.]

i honestly don't even think mhork realises that was what he was implying (i think he was just making an observation), but it doesn't change that nothing he said was factually incorrect, so you overreacting and calling him lying scum makes no sense.

PV also made some good points about him.

PV's just coming off a game where i did something similar as scum to protect a scum buddy. what he doesn't realise is that the thing i was doing was because the gamestate called for it; i needed to discredit PV in a situation where he was lynchbait and lynching him that day would basically ensure a win, i didn't want to waste time bussing a buddy unnecessarily and i could get away with it because PV's argument was shaky at best and he was suspected by a lot of people. he's paranoid about me here because he thinks this is something indicative of my scum game but doesn't realise it's something i also do as town when i see a shaky argument. so i can't

really

fault PV for being really wrong here, even though i don't think i'd be dumb enough to do the exact same thing with the exact same player twice in a row as scum...

all that said, i'm interested in which "good points" PV made you agree with. do you agree that seanald is scum purely for advertising austerity measures? because me disagreeing with that is the foundation for PV thinking i'm scum.

the bolded is just too ballsy to be coming from scumNero

how so? like... what was ballsy about it and what risk could that have posed to nero-scum?

I think scumNero would be more likely to keep his mouth shut and not advertise anything.

btw, it's nice and all that you're going through the entire player list and calling them town (including klick, who you're still voting), but who do you guys actually think is scum?

Nero started yelling at people, which I like for his alignment.

eh, this is wrong. if nero is

known

for yelling as town, of course he's going to adapt this to his scum game. you even mentioned another game in which you remember him doing it as scum, so...

[zMuffinMan]

why would Nero offer to advertise anything as scum?

... you honestly can't think of reasons he'd do it as scum? like i suppose he could have kept quiet, but then that also runs the risk of being called out for not offering to advertise something, so...

I find it more difficult to parade around and call myself obvtown when I'm clearly not

that's more a your playstyle vs others' playstyle thing, then? i don't usually have a problem with calling myself obvtown when i'm clearly not.

[zMuffinMan]

pyro, harakiri
mhork, zdenek, upsidedown, pieguyn

this is still basically the same

[zMuffinMan]

It's bothering me atm that Nacho-garuda isn't pushing for a different lynch at the moment, he's arguing against the two top lynch contenders' wagons

same thing that bothered me. they're "working on it" as of #1635, apparently

[zMuffinMan]

This risk doesn't seem to be very large. Do you think it is?

about as large as the risk of being called scummy for suggesting people funnel you money!

[zMuffinMan]

drpepper's scum reads are really weird. it hurts my head reading them.

[zMuffinMan]

muffin - He keeps posting things I agree with, but it's interspersed with stuff I'm not so sure about.

what "stuff"?

[zMuffinMan]

what "stuff", morph?

[zMuffinMan]

@morph,

Spoiler:

this felt very much like a newb's reaction to their first large theme game.

i've literally never seen another player say, "omg, there are more than 3 scum!" in a game this size. that looked about as fake as fake could be. i started changing my mind about him after seeing how bafflingly stupid some other things he was saying were, the culmination of this being him offering to advertise governor. i decided it's probably more likely that he really is that naive rather than scum playing dumb. *shrug*

He's accosting other players to state opinions on this group of three players and it's like the whole game is being viewed through this lens and other players sorted based on their opinions about this triumvirate.

i like using this method, it works for me in the early stages of a game. i dunno why you think it's a bad thing.

The main thing that jumped out here was the defense of ProHawk, which was on the basis of his agreeing with zmuffin about...the triumvirate.

prohawk had like <10 posts at that point iirc. i was reading his content at the time as more townish than scummy, and didn't really understand why he was being read as scum. it wasn't a defense so much as me saying, "i liked those posts, why are you reading them differently?"

He's liking zdenek for much the same reasons. This firms up to a town read later.

nah, me liking zdenek had nothing to do with his reads or thoughts on the game (although i did like that he saw what i was seeing with voided's read on LB). his approach to the game and the tone of his posts just read town.

Mild defense of Mhork. "finding his feet". This struck me as interesting given his lack of sympathy for baldeagle.

i "lacked sympathy" for baldeagle because i thought he was pretending to be retardedly oblivious to the setup and the way it works. mhork was finding his feet in terms of reads.

In 623 he says he didn't like bmolla's ISO but there's nothing concrete. Based on context, it was apparently these next two posts that were the tipping point.

um. iirc the read on BB was to do with feeling like he was just coasting and trying to remain invisible. but yeah, i liked his #640 and the answers to the question i asked after that. i dunno. it felt honest. since then, he's gone back to being a background figure.

This post has a slight flavor of coaching, somehow. Could be my bias about Klick, though.

But, the apparent flip-flop was due to prohawk calling hermy obvtown after not defending her more vociferously on late day 1.

correct

This bugs me because IME it's pretty common of Nero.

what's pretty common of nero? i have limited experience with town-nero but i've never seen him play like he's played here. he's been more aggressive and opinionated in games i've seen of him.

I thought that Nacho was emulating/having fun with one of my habits as a hydra of putting down a vote long after I first telegraph the concern by indicating that there has been en hydra discussion resulting in the vote - finally

ok. i don't get your in-jokes, then.

[zMuffinMan]

ill switch to voided soon, prob

[zMuffinMan]

Can someone walk me though the plan quickly?

look up

[zMuffinMan]

the basic idea is

funnel money into a town bloc
win night game

if you're reading the game anyway, you'll see it discussed a bit

[zMuffinMan]

I think PV's point about you singling me out for advertising love potion and vote freezer but ignoring Sean was p good.

i don't think that was PV's point, and i wasn't singling you out. the only reason i wasn't questioning seanald is because others already were - any questioning from me would have been redundant. i did, however, think it was silly to vote seanald purely on the basis of his claimed advertising.

H/o may have found Tammy scum.

even if this was a good reason to suspect pyro, 1632 is 12 pages after 1328...

Despite that being the sole reason a wagon popped up Pro-hawk.

i'm pretty sure i was the one who started the questioning of prohawk, i think i know the reason for it.

[zMuffinMan]

UNVOTE: Voided

We should have done this last night.

do you no longer think he's scum?

Please either make a real case for Dr Pepper being scum and the best lynch today, or make a case for someone else.

btw, if there's support for a dr pepper wagon, i'd be fine with that, too

[zMuffinMan]

are you asking which abilities i think are inherently scummy to advertise (aka they benefit scum more than town when advertised) or which abilities i think it is inherently scummy to have

publicly claimed

to have advertised? because those are two different answers (the latter being "none necessarily").

[zMuffinMan]

Whatever we do, we have huge incentive to do it in the next 1.5-ish days

i'm fine with any of {nero, dr pepper, voided} happening, really. i'll lend support to whichever wagon is most viable.

[zMuffinMan]

So anyone claiming to advertise anything is either dumb or not scummy?

... how do you still not get this? there are certain abilities that are more beneficial to scum than they are to town. yes. ok. we've established that. the question is whether or not a person who publicly claims to have advertised these abilities is scum. i think it's unwise to rule out the possibility they just weren't thinking when they advertised it (or when they intended to advertise it, in the case of baldeagle) and honestly claimed it. you apparently think, "fuck that, they claimed it, they must be scum!"

[zMuffinMan]

although that reminds me, nero never elaborated on why the abilities he advertised were so blatantly protown.

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: Dr Pepper

[zMuffinMan]

Talk to your buddy Seanald, becasue he hasn't answered this either.

ok, i'll get on to this.

Either way, if it's not publicly known, the governed person comes under more scrutiny.

correct. this is the definition of an anti-town ability. it's a wasted lynch.

Extra Vote gives an extra vote, useless when less than 10 players. The person having the extra vote will be immediately recognized by thier extra voite.

no. according to the ability glossary, votecounts will still display as normal, so it's an inherently scummy ability unless claimed and controlled. unless i'm misunderstanding what it means when it says displayed as normal...

It still bugs the shit out of me that you don't see the difference.

i understand what you mean. i just think you're wrong. seanald could be scum, but from what i've read, i think he really believes that advertising austerity measures was a good idea for town.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm fine with a dr p lynch, but last time we talked syry wanted our vote on Nero.

(Y) but nero isn't going to happen today

[zMuffinMan]

BTW if we're dead overnight, then please hold LB's feet to the fire at least a little tomorrow because that's my personal unfinished business.

aren't they in your top 6 town reads?

[zMuffinMan]

You are all allowing scum to exploit the game mechanics to push rushed lynches.

ok. if you're going to say this every time a lynch happens, i'm just going to ignore you.

besides, how would a rushed lynch on seanald be any different?

you didn't see what I saw.

do you think i'm scum?

[zMuffinMan]

ok

you've had over 7 days to talk it out already, and you've done shit all. are you going to start talking now?

go on. i'm super interested in your reasons here and will totally read what you say with a straight face.

[zMuffinMan]

... as much as time will allow you to do? whining about the hermy lynch, a weak vote on harakiri with no followup except for a couple snarky questions to the hydra, a weak vote on upsidedown for reasons you still haven't explained and no followup, whining about me anddddd now whining about the dr pepper lynch.

ok. hurry up and be done with whatever you're doing then

[zMuffinMan]

it saddens me that people are reading you as town

[zMuffinMan]

cash cabd was a smaller game, with a player list i could mostly get along with. and even in that game, i apparently offended the mala half of AK enough that she stopped playing the game altogether. so... i dunno. *shrug* i let emotion govern my interactions with players a bit more than i should sometimes and sometimes derision is a part of that, but i try not to let it affect my reads.

btw, i still do think your reasons for voting harakiri were horrible.

and i'm surprised you left me asking the mod to replace nero with a doorknob out of that series of quotes. kind of disappointing, actually, since i think that was my best one.

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, off the top of my head, i remember calling ns useless in that game and him asking me not to talk about his skill level, and i made mala stop playing the game altogether, plus whatever else i may have said along the way, so like... yeah. if it helps, i'm in asshole rehab. it's a very slow process, though.

[zMuffinMan]

least posts before a hydra slip, ever

[zMuffinMan]

This wagon became "prominent" pretty damn quickly.

while the wagon went from 0->almost lynched pretty quickly, i share the sentiment that he's had like... 7 fucking days to push an alternative and hasn't done anything. soooooo while he couldn't prevent the dr pepper wagon taking off when it did, he could have done more than he's done today beforehand if he really wanted a different lynch to happen.

take his upside down vote, for example. he claims that upside down made the most sense as scum on the hermy wagon (even though two stronger scum reads for him, harakiri and LB, were also on that wagon), but he never explains

why

he thinks this and lazily sits on the upside down vote while asking you to metadive me. even before that, he wasn't doing much more with the harakiri vote - outside of the couple snarky questions he asked the hydra, i can't really find him doing anything with his vote.

i mean, if we're comparing play to cash cabd, look at how different his approach to pushing AK in that game was. he was questioning people about it, asking why people disagreed with it, asking them to re-examine it, etc etc.

[zMuffinMan]

how does his play differ when scum?

[zMuffinMan]

I've seen ProHawk struggle to stay caught up in really fast-paced games. His play here fits that mold.

which game/s is this referring to?

[zMuffinMan]

i haven't really read through many of the games linked yet, except LN165, and i don't know how you think his play here is similar. his play there is exactly like his play in cash cabd; pushing his scum lynch (BRO) over and over, etc etc. show me anywhere he's pushed any of his reads like that here. i'll look at the other games in a bit.

[zMuffinMan]

he said in the post he selfvoted that it was his last post

[zMuffinMan]

I can understand that DP is not particularly towny and that he would be a good lynch if we didn't have people like Voided and Mhork scumclaiming

i'm still fine with a voided or nero wagon if they happen. i don't think mhork is scum, though.

[zMuffinMan]

what analysis?

[zMuffinMan]

what about my summary of your play today do you think is incorrect?

i'm STILL fucking waiting on you to explain the upsidedown vote. your reasons for thinking harakiri is scum are still weak. you've pushed neither of these lynches strongly. you've provided little analysis outside of your semi-VCA that you really didn't do much with. and you've spent most of your recent posts asking morph about me, but you're not voting me, so like...... yeah.

and now you want to lynch seanald because of one post. you know, that same thing you criticised the people voting hermy D1 for?

stop whining.

[zMuffinMan]

i'd vig you if i could

[zMuffinMan]

i like ghostlin so far. his read progression is somewhat similar to mine.

[zMuffinMan]

Why did you get a townread on pieguy there?

i liked 1434/1435 a lot.

and why the hell was klick up so high

i wasn't really ranking/ordering within tiers if that's what you mean by "up so high". the third tier of reads was people i think are likely town but don't have any super-strong feelings about them.

[zMuffinMan]

@garuda,

because i didn't sense any scum intent in the way pieguy was talking about his reads in 1434 and the last few paragraphs of 1435 read genuine as fuck

and i'm not really sure how you missed me explaining the klick read several times when you went through my ISO, but the tone of his D1 posts felt townish (e.g. "this is EZ") and i liked his posts at the start of D2 because it felt like he was trying to figure out the game (i particularly liked the way he changed his mind about prohawk, even though i think he's wrong). the replace-out self-vote stuff didn't really change this.

[zMuffinMan]

actually prohawk had something similar where he voted upside down on the wagon yesterday but he scumread us prior to the wagon that I completely didn't understand. but that kind of made sense when he went through the votes (I think he did? or categorised them)

it didn't really make sense. he categorised them into "pushed, gave reasons, no reasons" and then said upsidedown made the most sense... because.

and i've asked him to explain this like 10 times now but he keeps ignoring it

[zMuffinMan]

magua?

[zMuffinMan]

MuffinMan, Am I Scum?

probably

[zMuffinMan]

yes

[zMuffinMan]

@prohawk

i don't care about your opinion. i do care about the reasoning behind your reads. the former i can ignore, the latter i want to determine if or when you should be lynched

[zMuffinMan]

omfg

cant believe you hammered so quick

o
m
g

[zMuffinMan]

EVERYONE IS NOT TOWN THAT'S STUPID THERE HAS TO BE SCUM

there's only one way you could know this. scum claim?

[zMuffinMan]

===[]?

[]===?

===[]?

[zMuffinMan]

N1 advertised tracker for $5. i didn't realise this wouldn't be enough money for it to be included in the auction list or i would have advertised it for more. after i saw the list of abilities up for auction last night, i went back and checked the planned advertising D1 and realised that someone had claimed advertising each of the other abilities, which means everyone else put more than $5 on advertising those 9 abilities.

N2 advertised watcher, doc, wage freeze, cop for $5 each, rolled a 1, sent $185 to LB. when N2 rolled around i asked mag whether advertising tracker would do anything, and he was like nah, ya dun fucked up son. also apparently anyone who didn't ask this question and tried to advertise it anyway would have been penalised $5 for advertising tracker because it was a legal move...

[zMuffinMan]

@baldy,

see 2131

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, nobody talked about advertising amounts D1 so i assumed $5 was more than enough. i fucked that up.

[zMuffinMan]

Who do you think bussed DP?

eh, the wagon happened pretty quickly. if there was scum bussing, i'd guess somewhere in the middle-later portion of the wagon.

looking back at it, seanald's vote was pretty horrible, but i don't think it came from someone who knew dr pepper was scum. voided is a possibility from late on the wagon, but again i don't see him admitting he was voting for survival reasons if he knew dr peppers was scum.

off wagon, i still like nero and prohawk for scum.

going to do some reading.

[zMuffinMan]

To everyone else: should we ask him to try and buy the nk every night if he's town?

no

It gave me a coaching vibe.

if scum have daytalk, why would they coach each other in thread? even if they didn't, KA has been in game since D2, so why would he coach in thread D3?

do you think he ACTUALLY mediumed Tammy when he could/would medium DrPepper?

that's not how medium works

I am pretty positive at least two if not three scums are in our top 6 town pile

which two or three? less vague, more specific plx

Are you suggesting that Tammy would refuse to answer a question just because she might think Mhork was scum?

it's possible, if mhork was cocky scum who was like, "hahaha, we killed you last night, bitch!" in his first message to them. that's why i don't mind the line of questioning from morph and don't think it's necessarily fake

tbh, i'd like to see another question asked in similar vain towards the end of the day to make sure mhork isn't deliberately misrepresenting anything they're telling him. like, i think mhork is town, but it doesn't hurt to do this

[zMuffinMan]

what are your thoughts on ProHawk being proven to have advertised Gravedigger?

should i have thoughts on this? because i don't. it doesn't really play a factor in my read on him, if that's what you're asking. i don't share your opinion that advertising abilities means anything about alignment, or is even really a point in someone's favour. it would not surprise me in the least if scum are claiming to have advertised protown abilities. it's what i might have done as scum N0.

[zMuffinMan]

She doesn't like how muffin transferred lots of money to Lost Butterfly because they weren't even on their Big Six.

i wouldn't have transferred money to LB if i didn't feel they were town... and the entire point of the plan was to randomise it so scum couldn't guess who would be sending money to who.

[zMuffinMan]

it's until the end of this day phase

[zMuffinMan]

so you have... two town reads now and that's it...?

[zMuffinMan]

Also you guys know that Tammy can read the thread, right?

Lynch All Liars

he said he'd stay in and self-voted

no, he said that was his last post and self-voted


@ghostlin,

how much of the thread have you read now?

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Nero Cain

[zMuffinMan]

Upside down for the OTT posts regarding Hermy

is this referring to before or after the hermy flip? is this why you thought upsidedown was scum on the hermy wagon?

also what happened to your harakiri and LB reads?

someone plz tell me if I'm wrong

you're wrong. i'm pretty sure mhork isn't competent enough to fake something like that, anyway. at least not in this manner. no offense to him, but yeah... i don't think he knows either head of that hydra well enough to fake that.

the definition of obvtowning is that it's impossible for scum to actually pull off

you're naive if you really think this. plus morph hasn't been "obvtowning" at all, really. they're not among the players i currently think are most likely scum, but they're far from obvtown.

i feel a lot of the reason they were put in the BIG SIX was because they suggested THE PLAN. *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

So can we start voting Nero so he'll start posting again? It'll be really fun I promise

:>

the people on the Nero wagon are kind of freaking me out

who specifically/why? what's your current read on nero?

[zMuffinMan]

hey morph

you around?

[zMuffinMan]

wait, nm

how many of the people lurking do you have in your current scum reads?

[zMuffinMan]

the pacing of this game has slowed down heaps. after a scum lynch. i'm thinking scum apathy could be kicking in right now.

and i have mild-strong town reads on most of the players who are active at the moment. (even voided, who i'm coming around to)

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, he's one of them.

mhork do me a favour

go say "Nero Cain" in front of a mirror three times

[zMuffinMan]

i logged onto your mafiascum account

password123 is always easy to guess

[zMuffinMan]

By that logic, would ProHawk and BBMolla be scum too?

that is what i'm currently thinking, yes.

[zMuffinMan]

You realise Quilford's only made like half a dozen posts, right?

oh yeah, i've been meaning to ask about that. quilford is active as fuck elsewhere on site, why is he a non-presence in this game?

but is that because of the scum lynch or Tammy's death?

you think people are still in mourning over the loss of pyro or something? because i don't think pyro was that big a factor in terms of the activity in this game, so pyro's death shouldn't be why everyone is suddenly apathetic.

[zMuffinMan]

maybe active as fuck is an exaggeration, but i don't see why you guys are having such a hard time conversing or why he's been a non-presence

[zMuffinMan]

Pyro has the fourth most posts in the thread, I think that's a pretty major contribution.

heh. i didn't even realise that. still doesn't really explain the huge drop in activity in this game, though. (like, i went to sleep wednesday night and woke up to see 10 new posts, went to work and came home to another 10 new posts, same thing friday morning/night, so i dunno)

DAY 2 STUFFS

<snip>

who's scum, nero?

[zMuffinMan]

nero. current reads.

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think i was rushing you for reads. you posted a catchup wall, i assumed you were done, i asked you a question, you ignored it.

what about my scum read on you do you think is insincere?

plus i'm not, and i don't think anybody else apart from... maybe mhork? (dunno if there's anyone else) is voting you because of "lurking". i did note you have been lurking, but really, it has nothing to do with why i think you're scum.

[zMuffinMan]

it is also kind of funny that you think three of the four people voting you are scum, and the fourth is a null read for you.

who are you going to vote today, nero?

[zMuffinMan]

You assumed I was done catching up after finishing read day 2 stuff?

yeah, you posted that at 6.30pm my time. i asked you a question 2 hours later after seeing nothing else from you.

you posted 1.5 hours after i asked the question and ignored it.

i didn't realise it took you over 4 hours to read the 13 or so pages that happened D3.

The whole "omg u r sew stupid [if you thing Mhork was implying you were lurking scum] for thinking that">>"ok well yeah, he implied that and didn't know what he was saying." seemed rather forced to me.

ok. is that it? your argument with mhork is not why i thought you were scum (the only reason it's become a conversation point is because

you

made a big deal out of it as a sticking point). the main reasons i think you're scum are that your contributions to the game, when you actually make contributions, are weak as shit. D1 your arguments for thinking harakiri was scum were bad (and i broke these down towards the end of D1) and apart from the harakiri read, i don't remember any contributions from you D1 worth noting. D2 was much of the same, except now you're either calling everyone attacking you scum or you've downgraded them to null reads. even if it's you we're talking about here, the fact you have no scum reads outside the people wagoning you is hilarious.

Hence the line "there's scum in".

you don't have any other scum reads

so even if you are right and there

is

scum in {me, mhork, voided}, where's the other scum nero?

[zMuffinMan]

so even if you are right and there is scum in {me, mhork, voided}, where's the other scum nero?

btw i apologise in advance for rushing you about this, feel free to get back to me in a couple weeks

[zMuffinMan]

I don't think Nero Cain is scum.

is this out of fear that he's going to downgrade you to his null/scum pile, or do you really think nero is town?