===Mini 1615: Locked in the Asylum=== GAME OVER


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Post Post #80 (isolation #0) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:21 am

Post by LimMePls »

Dry-fit wrote:
Vote: LynchMePls.
Where have you been?

@Shos: What happens if a majority of people don't vote to drink coffee?


Having a BABY!

Why are you RVS'ing and ignoring someone begging to have the rules explained to them? Town wouldn't ignore the plea for help. Also, why didn't you ask the mod that question before now?

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:
Thestatusquo wrote:So then why are we voting in the morning phase?
It's to serve as a hypothetical vote count for who we intend to vote for in the Evening Phase (aka the one we find scummiest). Our votes for other people really don't count until we get to the Evening Phase.

That said, I am going to
Vote: Let's get some coffee!
. Scums do have the ability to kill during this phase but they can only kill if the kill is submitted via PM before the Morning Phase ends. Given that voting Let's get some coffee gets us faster into the Evening Phase, this is our chance to prevent a scum kill before we get into the Evening Phase.


Voting for coffee now is BAD. Why do you want a short day?

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:- Town should not be pursuing a lynch until the town has come to a conclusion on who is the most likely scum. Town's best ally is information and we need to make sure we aren't cut off from more information that could be helpful towards us winning. To have the best chance of lynching scum, town should not get coffee until they are in agreement on who is the most likely scum.


So you grasp this concept enough that you could immediately express it under pressure from TSQ, but you were still advocating a quick coffee drink. EXPLAIN NOW.

Also notice how he fell over himself to appease TSQ under the slightest of pressure.

Metal Sonic wrote:Now that your telling everyone the way to catch scum via online timings, scum will try to avoid that. Great work guys.

Metal Sonic wrote:Well, best starting in the game though, none of that RVS garbage

A+ logistics shos!


SCUMTASTIC way to join the game. LIKE FOR REALZ.

Guyett wrote:ego post

Guyett wrote:Is it a hydra if I have multiple personalities?


Ditto.

Thestatusquo wrote:
shaddowez wrote:
Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:The optimum scum strategy would be to vote to get some coffee as soon as they've found a mislynch they can pursue. Scums will want to end the day with the least amount of information possible and to do this without being suspected, they will likely be calling to get coffee when they feel they could get a mislynch going. Scums are not going to expect townies to agree that their mislynch of choice is the best lynch for the day.


Even if scum were going to do this, don't you think spelling out "optimum scum strategy" is a bad idea?

P-Edit:
I'm pretty sure mine is on

Really don't like this kind of hand-wringing. Reads to me like someone looking for something to attack without actually thinking about the game on a deeper level. Figuring out what scum strategy is most likely to be and then using that to determine who is most aligned with scum strategy in the way they're playing the game is like actual mafia 101.

I also don't really like the well poisoning here. "Even if this were true." is a vague attack on the points SSBF is bringing up without actually attacking them. I'm very suspicious of people who throw aspersions on other players ideas without contributing their own or at least explaining why those ideas are not correct.

Vote: Shaddowez


Good posting.

Metal Sonic wrote:VOTE: TSQ

looks like a party pooper kind


Metal Sonic needs rope.

Not sure what to make of Kurigan/TSQ back and forth.

Thestatusquo wrote:Anyway, shaddow is scum so we can get on with it now.


Sonic read?

Metal Sonic wrote:
Thestatusquo wrote:Metal sonic: Eff off.


Not taking orders from you~~


Actually kinda like this post... This interaction is noted for the future, and moves sonic up a spot from worst of the worst.

TOWN

Thestatusquo
Untrod Tripod
***
Titus
Anatole Kuragin
PeregrineV
Dry-fit
MattP
Konowa
***
Super Smash Bros. Fan
shaddowez
Metal Sonic
Guyett
SCUM


Between the *** is a more hazy nullish area. Still early in the game.
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Post Post #82 (isolation #1) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:35 am

Post by LimMePls »

Guyett = VI guys?
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Post Post #89 (isolation #2) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:16 am

Post by LimMePls »

Konowa wrote:I'd probably shoot and/or lynch LMP for #80.


I don't even...

LynchMePls wrote:Guyett = VI guys?


Still waiting for responses.
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Post Post #109 (isolation #3) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:06 am

Post by LimMePls »

Anatole Kuragin wrote:Being pretentious and obnoxious is a negative trait.


Negative traits from a general personality view, or negative for the town?

Konowa wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
Konowa wrote:I'd probably shoot and/or lynch LMP for #80.


I don't even...

LynchMePls wrote:Guyett = VI guys?


Still waiting for responses.

Yeah, pretty confident where my vote will be going during the actual vote phase.


Glad for you.

MattP wrote:Drank coffee immediately


Hmm, missed this. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Post Post #124 (isolation #4) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:09 pm

Post by LimMePls »

Metal Sonic wrote:yeah lynchmepls really need to get lynched, no objection about that, post 80 was trash


Explain what was "trash" about it, in detail.

No one help.
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Post Post #133 (isolation #5) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:49 am

Post by LimMePls »

MS should swing for this page alone.

vote: MS
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Post Post #207 (isolation #6) » Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:46 pm

Post by LimMePls »

I have a lot to say, but I am on a tablet. Huge post Inc tomorrow. However, want to comment on something now, in case I forget.

Untrod Tripod wrote:
Titus wrote:
Untrod Tripod wrote:
Titus wrote:VOTE: Metal Sonic

Matt, my vote is yours as long as you vote those two.

translation: "I plan on being absolutely fucking useless this game"


Translation: I hate when town work together to lynch us. Must doubtcast.

sheeping is not working together. sheeping is being a lazy fucknut


Wrong. Sheeping is not necessarily being lazy and IS unquestionably working together. This was scumposting.
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Post Post #217 (isolation #7) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:20 am

Post by LimMePls »

Thestatusquo wrote:Why not propose an answer to the question "why does he have so many fake votes" instead of just asking. What do you think? For someone who complained about fluff like 3 times in this post, the entire post itself is fluff.


I have to agree.

PeregrineV wrote:
Anatole Kuragin wrote:Pere, do you think my posts are more fluffy than yours?


Only about 45% of them. But I may be confused as to your play, since I was convinced of town you in Timeshift- and it was not this.


Elaborate on this please. How is his play here different from his obv-Town play in Timeshift?

PeregrineV wrote:Because my answer is you seem to be jumping right into scumhunting, which is a good thing. But now, it's probably because you seem hyper-aggressive to everyone. So, you are right, I did answer my own question.

This post is shorthand, because I don't have time for explaining the backstory behind each question. They will either get it because they already know, or they will ask.


If it seemed he was jumping into scumhunting, and that is a good thing, then what was the point of the question? I want the backstory to this question, and I want your read of TSQ.

Dry-fit wrote:I don't like Metal Sonic's . He's happy with the gamestate but isn't willing to actually contribute to advancing it.


Agree with this.

Dry-fit wrote:I don't like Metal Sonic's . He's happy with the gamestate but isn't willing to actually contribute to advancing it. Guyett is in a similar situation but isn't as explicity complacent.
Unvote. Vote: Metal Sonic.


Radically disagree with this. How was Guyett not "explicitly complacent"?

shaddowez wrote:"Hand-wringing"? It's not like I'm trying to decide if something should or shouldn't be said, I'm outright saying it was a bad idea.
Attack? I asked if he thought it was a bad idea (which he hasn't answered, BTW). Never said I thought he was scum based on it, or did anything that would qualify as an "attack"
Your next line about figuring out their strategy and using it is completely counter-intuitive to the argument you're making against me. I agree that understanding how scum are playing and deciding who is scum based on that makes complete sense, but somebody saying "this is how they should play" undermines that by them now not playing that way.

I never said "Even if this were true", as I never assigned factual truth to what SSB said. I said "Even if scum were to play like this", because I don't know what their plan is.
Not contributing my own ideas - well, if my post was about giving out optimal scum strategy being a bad idea, what ideas am I supposed to give? Sub-optimum scum ideas? It's certainly not going to be more strategy.


Yes, hand-wringing. You didn't come right out and say it was bad, like you claim to hear. You said "Even if scum were going to do this,
don't you think
spelling out "optimum scum strategy" is a bad idea?"

That's not giving a strong opinion, that's implying a position while giving yourself a back door if town doesn't like what you're saying. I call this behavior "wishy-washy". "Hand-wringing" works too.

Metal Sonic wrote:VOTE: Untrod Tripod

for impersonating DGB


We're so far passed RVS this is scummy.

Metal Sonic wrote:and what if i don't? ;)


Not a town mindset.

Metal Sonic wrote:
MattP wrote:
Konowa wrote:I'd probably shoot and/or lynch LMP for #80.

Good


than what was this?


Pretty much confirms my suspicion that he was only calling post 80 bad because others he wanted to blend with called it bad.

Metal Sonic wrote:
Titus wrote:MS, if you feel that post 80 was so bad. Why are you voting UT?

MattP, you get a sheep for your UT argument.

VOTE: UT


votes in this phase dont count

these are all 100% troll votes


Because they can't directly cause a lynch now, they have no value besides "troll votes"? This is not a town mindset.

Metal Sonic wrote:Oh well, I'm nice, here goes:

Post #80, although looking large and helpful, contributes nothing of substance to the gamestate. Zero. Zilch. LynchmePls does not generate any insight, any opinions, or any analysis into the gamestate. He's trying to look as if he is contributing by providing reads, and even making a pretty 'helpful' reads list at the end of his post, but fails to provide any reasoning for 5/6 of his reads -> referring to those in the non-null pile. Specifically, TSQ, UT, and the other four scumreads. According to the post, the only player that he has expressed suspicion on is myself. Where did the other three scumreads come from?


What does being "nice" have to do with it? Do you see participation in the game as being "nice" to us?

How can you say it contributed nothing to the gamestate. It provoked responses from easily half the thread, if not more. What do you mean by a post contributing to the gamestate? As for "analysis", I pointed to key posts that I thought were relevant and gave an opinion on them. I'd be happy to elaborate on any of them if I am asked, but I don't think people want to read a thesis on everything I find worthy of pointing to.

Anyway, Guyett, shadowez and SSBF magically appear on LynchmePls's scumreads despite barely being mentioned at any point in post #80? Wasn't I the main superstar of his post? How did Guyett take my number 1 top rank for his scumreads?


How can you say Guyett, shaddowez or SSBF are "magically" on my scumreads? The explanations are right there in that post. If you don't see how I reached my conclusions on any of those players, why didn't you ask me about them?

Metal Sonic wrote:Finally, cases are scummy, and he was begging me for one.


Is this the site meta now? Cause, if so, I'm going to go back into retirement.

Metal Sonic wrote:Your turn, sweetie pie~


See above. That's how town respond to such a challenge. They don't say "What if I don't", and then only grudgingly comply when shown pressure.

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:Congratulation on the baby LMP! May he or she have a bright future.


She, and thanks!

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:
LimMePls wrote:Voting for coffee now is BAD. Why do you want a short day?

So you grasp this concept enough that you could immediately express it under pressure from TSQ, but you were still advocating a quick coffee drink. EXPLAIN NOW.

Also notice how he fell over himself to appease TSQ under the slightest of pressure.
The first point is outdated, the second where you claimed I was still advocating a quick coffee drink at #43 is wrong. By the time I posted #43, I had already retracted my position for a short day because I was mistaken in regards to how long the Morning Phase lasted (I though it was three days maximum, not three days minimum). #43 was posted upon me understanding correctly how the Morning Phase worked rather than my misconception about the morning phase when I made my push to end the Morning Phase. I also don't see how I "fell over myself" when responding to him.


Lets look at this more in depth.

In post 23, you say that morning only lasts 3 days, and that the scum have to submit the kill during morning, so you think we should quick drink coffee.

Then, post 30, UT sheep's your argument and drinks coffee. In 31, you then encourage others (I'm guessing the people in game who you saw online at the time) to join you.

Then, under pressure, you supply this post:

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:
Thestatusquo wrote:
Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:Titus and everyone else, I'd suggesting voting Let's Drink Some Coffee as soon as possible. If we can avoid a Night Kill on a townie, that would be really helpful.


Vote:SSBF


That's just never going to happen. 3 day minimum. The only effect would be that WE would only get a very short period of time to discuss and make a lynch happen on day one. Did you not know this and if you didn't why did you try to explain the rules to me when you did not understand them yourself?
No I did not know this. As a matter of fact, I noticed I misread the Morning Phase part right before shaddowez pointed it out. I ended up confusing the "3 days minimum" part for "3 days maximum" part and thought that the optimal plan was to get everyone to vote Let's Get Some Coffee to avoid a night kill on a townie. Turns out it was a major misreading on my part.


BUT, if that were true, why did you have 2 posts on page one (one being an RVS vote) where you were not pushing for the quick drink coffee plan? In other words, if you thought we could potentially skip the morning and avoid a night kill, why did you waste time not pushing for that as hard as you could?

And then we have:

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:
Thestatusquo wrote:So tell me, are you scum? What is optimum scum strategy given your new understanding of the rules? What is optimum town strategy? Who is your favorite pokemon? Can you tell me two things about the rule set we should be extra careful about?
- No.
- The optimum scum strategy would be to vote to get some coffee as soon as they've found a mislynch they can pursue. Scums will want to end the day with the least amount of information possible and to do this without being suspected, they will likely be calling to get coffee when they feel they could get a mislynch going. Scums are not going to expect townies to agree that their mislynch of choice is the best lynch for the day.
- Town should not be pursuing a lynch until the town has come to a conclusion on who is the most likely scum. Town's best ally is information and we need to make sure we aren't cut off from more information that could be helpful towards us winning. To have the best chance of lynching scum, town should not get coffee until they are in agreement on who is the most likely scum.
- Squirtle is my favorite because he's a bad-ass Pokémon and I absolutely love 1st gen of Pokémon (only beaten by the 2nd gen). It's too bad he got cut from Smash 3DS & Wii U thought; really wanted him to return.
- One thing we should be extremely careful about is how the day and night phase works. I made a big mistake of confusing how the morning phase works, so all of us (especially myself) need to keep in mind that the Morning Phase is a minimum of three days, not a maximum of three day. The Morning phase lasts for at least three days even if we all vote to get coffee before then and the phase does not end until we vote for coffee. The Evening or the Coffee Phase lasts for forty eight hours which is where a lynch will happen and the Night Phase lasts for forty eight hours.

We also need to be careful about methods used for scum hunting. While screen capping when players logged in (for those who show it) and the posts in the "Search user's posts" section, I realized that I had concerns over what was acceptable to screen capped. I then PM'd shos over what was acceptable to screen capped and he answered it basically like his notice here. We need to pay special attention to this rule because the last thing we want to happen is to have a townie mod-killed because they accidentally posted on-going game information.


Where you seem to have a very good grasp on the idea that drinking coffee quick is bad for town. But, according to you, you'd only realized how the timing worked an hour before. So, as a TL;DR, here is how your behavior looked to me:

RVS -> Sees potential to egg on quick coffee -> advocates quick coffee -> gets called out -> immediately supplies the reasons for why drinking coffee early is bad

Given that chain of events, you look like someone who didn't want to initially push for quick coffee, but if discussion even slightly turned toward it, were eager to promote it, and then was worried about how your pushing of it would impact town's read of you. Which is a scum mindset.

MattP wrote:
Thestatusquo wrote:
MattP wrote:VOTE: TSQ

Good thing votes don't count in this phase

I can move my pseudo-vote if you want


Saying votes don't count in this phase is scummy. They have the exact same impact as they do in regular games, except if we go from L-1 to L, we have to then drink coffee before we can officially seal the deal.

Dry-fit wrote:I think we should agree to all vote the player who has the most pseudovotes when the coffee phase begins. Otherwise it'e likely things will devolve to chaos. It's hard enough to get a lynch together on mafiascum.net lately without only having 48 hours to do it. I'm not sure how we're going to deal with claiming though.


I like this, but would revise it. The way we should play this mechanic is that we all agree if a player reaches L votes, we will drink coffee and lynch that player. If we hit deadline, and no player reached L, then we lynch the player with the most votes in morning phase.

Metal Sonic wrote:
MattP wrote:
Metal Sonic wrote:this is true.

strangely.

I think you're scum

strangely.



I don't give a shit about your opinion


Strangely

Cause normally I do

Hmm


So, what does that say about Matt? Can you elaborate on this?

Also, what is with the "Hmm" at the end of your posts? What purpose does that serve?

Guyett wrote:Woops.


@Mod: This doesn't actually count as activity, right?


shaddowez wrote:I'm actually agreeing with Sonic at this point about LMP. Post (which I know is the same post everyone talking about LMP is using, because it's the only post he's made worth talking about) has a lot of words and quotes, but almost no content. I'm not sure if it's how he usually posts or not, but his text vs. quotes is confusing as all get out (to me at least), making it difficult to follow which quote he's talking about at any given time.

I won't knock him for not responding yet as he's V/LA over the weekend, but not liking him so far.

I'd also love to hear more about what people think about the Konowa/UT neighbors. Considering the theory of this game, and the fact that we're all supposed to be connected all the time, including hearing the scum talk, I'm really going to be surprised if there's neighbors.

Pere
- You mentioned drinking coffee as close to the max time as possible. What do you think of dry-fits idea of agreeing to basically auto-vote whoever has the most hypothetical votes at the time we go into evening phase?

Guyett
- Do you have any thoughts on this game yet, in any aspect?


Explain how post 80 had almost no content. I provided relative reads on every player in the game (something almost no one else has done), as well as highlighted posts that I felt were worth pointing out and probing a couple of people on issues I felt needed addressing. If that isn't content, I don't know what is.

I also don't know how to make my quoting and then responding less "confusing". It seems pretty straightforward to me. Anytime I'm behind more than a page or so, I read everything I haven't commented on yet, quote the posts that I think need commenting on, and add my thoughts/comments. Then, whenever I do a post like that, at the end I like to put up my town/scum metere, as a sort of "TL;DR".

Why are you so concerned about the neighbors? They almost certainly wouldn't fake claim it, and all we could discuss about it is setup speculation. What exactly do you want us to "discuss" about it?

MattP wrote:It's hard for me to ever get over my scumread on you when whenever I talk to you you curse at me or call me names! Or other people! Whatever


Why is him calling you names interfering with your scumread on him? I'd like you to expand on this more.

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:Konowa mentioned that he talked to UT in Konowa's Bluetooth thread about how the phase worked. shaddowez then called out Konowa for mentioning it, mentioning how the only form of Bluetooth communication known was the scum QT unless neighbors was involved. UT then claimed that he was neighbor with Konowa ten minutes after shaddowez called Konowa out.


Gonna need to go back and re-read this, but if this is true, it is really good posting.

@Konowa
Did you discuss how the drinking coffee works in a qt with UT? Did he give you the impression that he understood it?

If that is true, then combined with the UT quick coffee drink, UT-slot is probably scum.

TOWN

Thestatusquo
MattP
Titus
Konowa*
Dry-fit
Anatole Kuragin
PeregrineV
Super Smash Bros. Fan
Untrod Tripod*
shaddowez
Guyett
Metal Sonic
SCUM


*Conditional on some stuff involving Konowa-UT QT.
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Post Post #219 (isolation #8) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:28 am

Post by LimMePls »

Guyett wrote:BTW I can see only one pro town reason for rushing a coffee morning vote, by my reckoning scum have to decide who to kill before the coffee decision happens so if the decision to go for coffee happens before scum can come to an agreement on who to kill then there's no kill. We should have some sort of idea when scum have decided who to kill as we can see what they're saying in the scum QT.


The morning is minimum 72 hours though. So quick coffee is highly unlikely to stop a kill.

But it gets worse. Suppose you are correct, and right after day started we could all vote drink coffee and it immediately goes into the coffee phase. How would you expect us to secure a good lynch in 48 hours? Who benefits more from a very short day, town or scum?
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Post Post #225 (isolation #9) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:37 am

Post by LimMePls »

Guyett wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
Guyett wrote:BTW I can see only one pro town reason for rushing a coffee morning vote, by my reckoning scum have to decide who to kill before the coffee decision happens so if the decision to go for coffee happens before scum can come to an agreement on who to kill then there's no kill. We should have some sort of idea when scum have decided who to kill as we can see what they're saying in the scum QT.


The morning is minimum 72 hours though. So quick coffee is highly unlikely to stop a kill.

But it gets worse. Suppose you are correct, and right after day started we could all vote drink coffee and it immediately goes into the coffee phase. How would you expect us to secure a good lynch in 48 hours? Who benefits more from a very short day, town or scum?


I didn't see that morning is minimum 72 hours... have yet to get properly into the game.

Scum for sure benefit the short day


Ok, so if you didn't know 72 hour minimum, why didn't you drink coffee instantly?
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Post Post #227 (isolation #10) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:57 am

Post by LimMePls »

Ok, feeling better about Guyett. Don't disappoint me.
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Post Post #233 (isolation #11) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Post by LimMePls »

If there are multiple quotes in a row followed by one thought/comment/question from me, that means I believe the multiple posts are similar in argument/tone. For instance, when I point out MS terrible entry to the game. Those were two quick posts from him that were terribad.

Anytime I say something like "that is scumtastic", if I don't elaborate, that means I think it is obvious, or I want to see reactions from the person/people involved before I elaborate. If you don't understand, or want me to elaborate, just ask. I don't like to elaborate much in those catch-up style posts because it takes already too long posts and grows them exponentially. I usually take the time to spell things out in posts when I am not catching up.

I feel pretty much everything except the reads in the null area of my meter in post 80 was clear. I am happy to field questions about any part of the post.
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Post Post #234 (isolation #12) » Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:58 pm

Post by LimMePls »

Quoting only relevant stuff on my tablet is too hard. In response to your neighbor section, they don't have to explain being able to night talk at all if they are scum. You are making no sense here.

The question is "why would two mafia members claim neighbors unprovoked".
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Post Post #248 (isolation #13) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:37 am

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LynxKuroneko wrote:Gods be damned, please disregard everything UT posted -.-

At the moment, I'm seeing the 'authority' in LMP, meaning they're grabbing this game by the balls and leading it. Of course the goal is to 'appear town' as scum, but its still risky as scum to take that position. The minute I find inconsistency in LMP, she's getting lynched.

Right now, everyone else seems to be fair game.

I'm most happiest with a Metal Sonic or SSBF lynch at the moment, given all the back and forth, and the fact that I see LMP as likelier to be town compared to those two. Will have to reread again, and hopefully rectify the damage UT caused to this role.


Operation murderate this slot is a go.
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Post Post #249 (isolation #14) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:38 am

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EBWOP:
Unvote
Vote: Lynx
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Post Post #250 (isolation #15) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:38 am

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Son of a...
Unvote
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Post Post #252 (isolation #16) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:44 am

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Oh, and because some people in this thread need hand holding, let me make this abundantly clear.

LynxKuroneko wrote:Right now, everyone else seems to be fair game.
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Post Post #253 (isolation #17) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:45 am

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Thestatusquo wrote:Sure I did. Please claim.
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Post Post #259 (isolation #18) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:19 am

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MattP wrote:I haven't read anything new, but I feel much more strongly about a MS scumread currently than a UT one. I'll reinvolve myself tonight

MattP wrote:This is hilarious


More pls.
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Post Post #261 (isolation #19) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:20 am

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LynxKuroneko wrote:LMP, did I offend or something? :/


No, you just replaced into a scum slot and made one of the scummiest posts I've ever seen.
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Post Post #262 (isolation #20) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:21 am

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@Lynx: Which vote is that?
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Post Post #263 (isolation #21) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:23 am

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LynxKuroneko wrote:I can easily see one of SSBF, Metal Sonic or LynchMePls being scum, because that can read as a nicely played out bus / distance


If it were bussing or distancing, why would only one of us be scum?

Flail harder pls.
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Post Post #266 (isolation #22) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:40 am

Post by LimMePls »

Anatole Kuragin wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
LynxKuroneko wrote:I can easily see one of SSBF, Metal Sonic or LynchMePls being scum, because that can read as a nicely played out bus / distance


If it were bussing or distancing, why would only one of us be scum?

Flail harder pls.


Flailing is statistically proven to be a trait of townies more often than scum.


I'd love for you to back this up. Was not my experience in the past.
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Post Post #267 (isolation #23) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:41 am

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Also, care to weigh in with an alignment opinion?
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Post Post #271 (isolation #24) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:04 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:Flailing is statistically proven to be a trait of townies more often than scum.

Psyche wrote:evaluating the 101 most recent accusations

**SNIP**

In truth, this is neither a conclusive nor a direct investigation of the efficacy of "flailing" as a tell. I did not investigate flailing, and whether my sample of 101 accusations is sufficient to draw conclusions is debatable. But I felt lik giving you what I had.


Not even REMOTELY approaching "statistically proven". There are may large flaws in that. For one, sample size is not nearly large enough. For two, the quality of the player(s) making the flailing accusation and the player being accused of the flailing seems to be ignored.

Even so, read his conclusion:

Psyche wrote:Is 9% enough to call flailing a scumtell? It's probably a weak one, at best. But it's definitely not a reason NOT to lynch someone. It's just not a reason in an of itself. Many a vote I studied was based mostly or entirely on a player's supposed flailing. That doesn't seem like a good basis for a lynch.

Psyche wrote:Given this, it may be clear from the data that the efficacy of the flailing tell is at least questionable, and players should be careful when allowing themselves to be swayed very much by cases like these, instead focusing on more substantial points.


So, I think the thrust of his argument is that flailing is not in itself sufficient to push for a lynch. But his own numbers seem to support that it is more likely to come from scum than town. It just shouldn't be given more weight over what he considers "more substantial points".

Did you read that at all?
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Post Post #272 (isolation #25) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:11 am

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I feel strongly enough about the slot that I'm ready to drink coffee for the lynch. Just saying.
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Post Post #274 (isolation #26) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:32 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
Anatole Kuragin wrote:Flailing is statistically proven to be a trait of townies more often than scum.

Psyche wrote:evaluating the 101 most recent accusations

**SNIP**

In truth, this is neither a conclusive nor a direct investigation of the efficacy of "flailing" as a tell. I did not investigate flailing, and whether my sample of 101 accusations is sufficient to draw conclusions is debatable. But I felt lik giving you what I had.


Not even REMOTELY approaching "statistically proven". There are may large flaws in that. For one, sample size is not nearly large enough. For two, the quality of the player(s) making the flailing accusation and the player being accused of the flailing seems to be ignored.

Even so, read his conclusion:

Psyche wrote:Is 9% enough to call flailing a scumtell? It's probably a weak one, at best. But it's definitely not a reason NOT to lynch someone. It's just not a reason in an of itself. Many a vote I studied was based mostly or entirely on a player's supposed flailing. That doesn't seem like a good basis for a lynch.

Psyche wrote:Given this, it may be clear from the data that the efficacy of the flailing tell is at least questionable, and players should be careful when allowing themselves to be swayed very much by cases like these, instead focusing on more substantial points.


So, I think the thrust of his argument is that flailing is not in itself sufficient to push for a lynch. But his own numbers seem to support that it is more likely to come from scum than town. It just shouldn't be given more weight over what he considers "more substantial points".

Did you read that at all?


not really, I was in a game recently where someone posted that link and said the same thing I did. nobody questioned it.


Wow... this post... seems REALLY unlikely to come from scum. Not impossible, but it would be BOLD playing.
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Post Post #275 (isolation #27) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:01 am

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@Kurigan if that game you were in when that link was used is over, could you link it?
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Post Post #282 (isolation #28) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:27 am

Post by LimMePls »

Anatole Kuragin wrote:
Thestatusquo wrote:Dude, you realize that just randomly searching for the word "flailing" does not constitute a statistical correlation between the actual act of flailing and being town, right?

Once again lynx I was not kidding. Answer my fucking question.


The point is that accusations of flailing are typically directed at townies to a degree where an accusation or perception of flailing does not mean anything about the target's alignment, according to the data.


Except the data from that post doesn't even REMOTELY say that. Which I just demonstrated with quotes.
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Post Post #283 (isolation #29) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:33 am

Post by LimMePls »

Konowa wrote:I've been kind of following along, but really finding very little motivation to actually post stuff.

Someone asked something about UT in our neighbor thread, he didn't converse at all other than to say hi once and to ask what I thought later on. I asked shos in our neighbor thread specifically about the coffee stuff and shos replied in the neighbor thread so I would assume that UT would have understood the rules.

I guess I should make some sort of effort today and/or tomorrow.


Today would be fantastic.

If I understand what you're saying, then the mod described how drinking coffee worked in detail in the neighbor thread that UT was a part of.

If that's the case, I'm ready to drink coffee and swing scum. Please confirm what I said was accurate.
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Post Post #299 (isolation #30) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:36 pm

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vote: drink coffee
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Post Post #316 (isolation #31) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:04 am

Post by LimMePls »

LynxKuroneko wrote:Please kill SSBF.

TSQ, while quite unpleasant, might just be town.

LMP's sudden silence after my words doesn't sit well with me.

Keep an eye on those three, and don't let Metal Sonic slip through, either.

Its only Day 1, and I'm not the best at analyzing people without patterns like VCA to build on, but those guys just give me shivers.

Good luck, town.

p.edit - :mad:


I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about total silence.

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Post Post #317 (isolation #32) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:05 am

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Titus wrote:VOTE: Drink Coffee

Wow that drink coffee guy sure is lurking his way through the thread. Seriously, we got a lynch. Vig should shoot it.


What drink coffee guy?
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Post Post #321 (isolation #33) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:13 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:*Programs LynchMePls with standards of human sense of humor*

sorry this must have been left out of your original build


OH, NOW I C WAT TITUS DID THAR

LOL. Funny. But kinda not.
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Post Post #330 (isolation #34) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:57 am

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PeregrineV wrote:I 'd like to hear the flavor for the nieghbors, since my impression is we're all talking over earpieces. Assuming it's true, I think it slightly higher chance of being scum/town than town/town (prob 60/40), but don;t feel the need to scumhunt in the neighborhood just yet.


I was inches away from blasting the SHIT out of this post. Then:

PeregrineV wrote:On page 12- sorry, but just got a work assignment that I know nothing about, so now have to figure it out, then do it.


Saved him.
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Post Post #356 (isolation #35) » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:35 am

Post by LimMePls »

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:MattP (if Lynx is scum)


Explain that please.

If I had a gun, I'd put a bullet in SSBF for this post. MattP could deserve one based on Lynx flip.
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Post Post #357 (isolation #36) » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:37 am

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Konowa wrote:L-1.

I think Lynx's lack of enthusiasm in the qt is pretty indicative of Scum to me. I think that if Town, he would actively use the QT to probe me lay out thoughts there. I was kind of stalling to see if he would make use of it. He didn't aside two posts prodding me to post.

I'll hammer in a few if anyone else wants to get stuff in.


If you don't mind waiting for SSBF response, that would be sweet. Obv if time becomes an issue, drop it.
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Post Post #358 (isolation #37) » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:41 am

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Screw it, we don't have time to fart around, deadline is at 20 hours. Someone fire for effect please. If you have a bullet and are town aligned, SSBF is a good shot.
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Post Post #363 (isolation #38) » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:49 am

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MattP wrote:If you think I as Lynx's buddy would come in to hard push for a different lynch at L-2 disregarding Lynx's bad play, then you're silly. I wouldn't dig my own grave like that as scum, noone would


Except it's not a "hard push" when we all know there is 0 chance of another lynch.

P-edit: Or as TSQ said, WIFOM.

P-edit: Note it all you like. It's not a direction per se, it's more a strong feel of SSBF-scum. If not for the coffee mechanic, I'd be considering SSBF for death. That's how strongly I feel about it right now.

P-edit: What do you expect to change in two hours? Just do it.
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Post Post #373 (isolation #39) » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:15 am

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If you are town, posting in this thread, and not hammering Lynx, you are DOING IT WRONG.

That includes you Matt.
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Post Post #374 (isolation #40) » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:16 am

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Oh, hammer thrown. Nvm, carry on.
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Post Post #385 (isolation #41) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:22 am

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PeregrineV wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:On page 12- sorry, but just got a work assignment that I know nothing about, so now have to figure it out, then do it.


Pretty sure we had lots of time left. Anyone give me a rundown of what happened before I read it?


You could have read it over the night. Why didn't you?

Konowa said the mod made how drinking coffee clear in the QT, so UT should have known how drinking coffee worked. So we swung him, as we should have.

MattP wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:MattP (if Lynx is scum)


Explain that please.

If I had a gun, I'd put a bullet in SSBF for this post. MattP could deserve one based on Lynx flip.

Why do you need him to explain when you immediately following say the same thing?


I didn't actually say the same thing. We both said that you were probably scum dependent on the flip, the difference is he said you were scum if Lynx flipped scum. Which, as you rightly pointed out, is a very stupid thing to say. There is no way in hell that scum wouldn't have bussed him into the ground there. The last thing they would have done was vote another wagon during the coffee phase.

On the other hand, distancing from an impending mislynch is exactly the sort of thing I would expect scum to do there, especially if it also allowed distancing from a buddy who may be getting lynched/vigged.

Vote: MattP


Happy with MS as well. Not so sure about SSBF now. Could just be bad town. Don't think scum-SSBF would have said that MattP was scum if Lynx flips scum.
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Post Post #388 (isolation #42) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:53 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:So because Matt disagreed with the bad lynch you pushed, he's scum?


First and foremost, that was NOT a "bad" lynch. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Secondly, because Matt's vote during the coffee phase was too much "I know this is going to flip town, so let me get away from it". The fact that he had 0 chance of actually causing another wagon to form and lynch his target means he KNEW it was nothing more than for appearances. If he had a problem with the lynch, he should have pushed hard against it BEFORE we drank coffee. But he didn't, he pushed it hard. Only after we'd drank coffee and committed to the lynch did he back off and pursue MS.

Go read him in ISO. That should make what I'm saying much clearer.

Some highlights:

MattP wrote:UT is scum by the way, so people know to lynch him eventually


MattP wrote:The meta point was not the basis of my read, it's a side thought


MattP wrote:
Untrod Tripod wrote:you say, having filled your ISO with activity related IIoA and baseless reads

I don't know what IIoA means

My reads aren't baseless, and there's only two of them. You and MS are scum. I clearly explained my read on you, but you are allowed to ignore it because pretending to be indignant makes you feel like you look town. MS isn't allowed to agree with you.

MS is over-extending himself to the point that he's going to pull a muscle. His posts are ridiculous and over-the-top, and I don't believe his read on LMP, especially considering a lot of his points (LMP posted reads with no explanations) aren't inherently scummy and should have deserved further probing from MS if he thought they were weird instead of an immediate conclusion of a scum-read. I don't believe he's actually interested in "getting reads", and I think his aggressiveness is awkward and unbelievable, unlike TSQ's, which is why I'm not longer concerned with TSQ.

I also believe your aggressiveness is fake, but maybe you just think it makes you look town or something, which I don't believe is inherently scummy which is why I'm saying you should stop. Supposing my read on you is potentially wrong, and you have a brain, you would hopefully consider than and stop promoting anti-town discussion and tone. But hey, people can only dream


MattP wrote:I get that that's what you're saying. I don't necessarily believe it. I believe scum fake confusion about mechanics all the time.

Also, I know you think my huge post was arrogant and obnoxious, but I made many points in it that you could respond to.


MattP wrote:I still think UT is scum and is deliberately being offensive to promote destructive tone and discussion btw


MattP wrote:
LynxKuroneko wrote:Feel like explaining what makes my play horrendous? I've heard it several times, yet I'm just stating what I observe.

Yet several others in games I have been are just... either trolls or don't bother to put in much effort, up until their lynch.

Perhaps if I knew what was "horrendous" about my play, I could maybe stop playing like that. Maybe.

I am saying you're playing horrendously because the timing of your claim did not make sense. You should have claimed if you were in threat of lynch after the coffee phase. It looked very poorly executed, and you got beef for it. That was a very bad play, but I, in this case, believe you were acting as a new player being bullied by a player and didn't understand the issue with such an early claim. I think your posts are flaily but it's because you are overwhelmed with the level of aggression in the game and did not expect such a negative experience. I think this is EXACTLY why such a hostile game is not only unfun but also counter-productive because it stifles conversation and, separately,
fuels mislynches.


That bold is MY emphasis. He called the slot scum all day, and only after we drank coffee goes on to post in a manner that shows he all but KNOWS it's going to be a mislynch.

And, to be perfectly clear, this:

MattP wrote:I skimmed, and I believe that Lynx is just playing horrendously. I believe his posts are "scummy" but I believe his unhappiness with the game and feeling of town being bullied is authentic. I think this is an easy lynch, and I think that MS slipped to the back burner BECAUSE he is scum, and this easy lynch drew traction with no resistance easily, all through from UT onward, because the slot is very potentially town.

I think LMP is the clearest town player in the game currently.

VOTE: MS


Was AFTER we'd drank coffee, when the chance that UT/Lynx wasn't the lynch was essentially nil.
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Post Post #389 (isolation #43) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:57 am

Post by LimMePls »

PeregrineV wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:On page 12- sorry, but just got a work assignment that I know nothing about, so now have to figure it out, then do it.


Pretty sure we had lots of time left. Anyone give me a rundown of what happened before I read it?


Also, what you missed was that we'd already drank coffee, so we DIDN'T have "plenty of time". We were in the 48 hour to lynch phase.
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Post Post #393 (isolation #44) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:19 am

Post by LimMePls »

PeregrineV wrote:The last 3 coffee votes came -305-306 within 30 minutes of each other, and pretty much an hour later there were four votes on him.
There wasn't any time to do anything before coffee was drunk other than what was already done.


Don't follow your point here. Expand please.

Deciding that Lynx wasn't as scummy as UT doesn't seem like a thing scum-Matt would do no matter what Lynx might flip.


Because?

You have any other reason?


Laid it all out in 388.
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Post Post #397 (isolation #45) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:38 am

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Konowa wrote:
Anatole Kuragin wrote:So because Matt disagreed with the bad lynch you pushed, he's scum?


Vote: Anatole Kuragin


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Post Post #402 (isolation #46) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:54 am

Post by LimMePls »

PeregrineV wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:The last 3 coffee votes came -305-306 within 30 minutes of each other, and pretty much an hour later there were four votes on him.
There wasn't any time to do anything before coffee was drunk other than what was already done.


Don't follow your point here. Expand please.

Your saying Matt chance to change his mind about Lynx should have came BEFORE coffee. Coffee AND the first 4(?) votes to lynch Lynx came very quickly one right after another. Where would be the time to fight against the Lynx lynch when it was already happening?


Do you think the only time to oppose the wagon was after drinking coffee? We were voting all day. He could have reversed course earlier. Your argument is so illogical to me, that I can't help feeling like we're miscommunicating. Please try explaining again.

Deciding that Lynx wasn't as scummy as UT doesn't seem like a thing scum-Matt would do no matter what Lynx might flip.


Because?

Because scum-Matt knows the Lynx mislynch is happening. Stupid to draw attention by expressing any other opinion after already have pressed the UT/Lynx=scum opinion.
If scum-Matt were bussing, final day phase and Lynx with 4 votes is stupid time to try to not-bus.
Pretty sure MattP is not stupid.


Ok, so your assertion is scum would not distance from a mislynch?

You have any other reason?


Laid it all out in 388.

Yeah, and you'd need to convince me that MattP is a bad player to think that he would pull that as scum.


So MattP can't do scummy things? I don't understand what you're trying to say here. He doesn't have to be a "bad player" to do something scummy.
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Post Post #403 (isolation #47) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:56 am

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PeregrineV wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
Konowa wrote:
Anatole Kuragin wrote:So because Matt disagreed with the bad lynch you pushed, he's scum?


Vote: Anatole Kuragin


Konowa's town.


:facepalm:


Do you really not see how bad that post was, and why Konowa's vote was good?

Unvote
Vote: Anatole Kuragin
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Post Post #421 (isolation #48) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:06 am

Post by LimMePls »

Anatole Kuragin wrote:
Konowa wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:Since I suspect you might be scum, your vote on Anatole does not lead me to deduce anything about Anatole's alignment.
LMP's vote on Anatole likewise does not change my opinion of Anatole's alignment, since LMP is still an unsure read for me.

So what is your read on Anatole then?

Anatole, the phrasing in #386 suggests otherwise.


I consider LMP to have been one of the driving forces for that lynch. I don't see how you can come to a different conclusion reading yesterday.


Yes I was. And I stand by it. Knowing what we knew, it was a great lynch.

What you seem to have forgotten, OR are overlooking is SO WAS MATT. Except when the rubber met the road, he tried to wash his hands of it, using language that left the impression that he knew it was going to be a mislynch.

Do you challenge that assertion? If not, what do you make of it?
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Post Post #422 (isolation #49) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:10 am

Post by LimMePls »

Anatole Kuragin wrote:LMP is there any townie whose lynch you
wouldn't
force down our throats?


I can't force ANYTHING down your throat. I also can't guarantee I won't push townies. Only scum can do that.

I'm not apologizing for my part in that lynch. It was a no brainer. All I can do now is move forward on this gamestate. Which is what I am doing. What do you expect me to do?
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Post Post #423 (isolation #50) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:11 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:LMP is there any townie whose lynch you
wouldn't
force down our throats?


@everyone else: comment on this post please.
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Post Post #431 (isolation #51) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:57 pm

Post by LimMePls »

Anatole Kuragin wrote:
MattP wrote:
Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:MattP is very confident about UT being scum > MattP considers UT and Metal Sonic to be scum but considers Metal Sonic to be a stronger suspect > MattP considers Lynx to be a townie that's playing badly and that he's an "easy" lynch.

It has to do with seeing the dynamic of the lynch progression. I don't believe this was a buildup on a scum player based on said progression

MattP wrote:
LynxKuroneko wrote:Feel like explaining what makes my play horrendous? I've heard it several times, yet I'm just stating what I observe.

Yet several others in games I have been are just... either trolls or don't bother to put in much effort, up until their lynch.

Perhaps if I knew what was "horrendous" about my play, I could maybe stop playing like that. Maybe.

I am saying you're playing horrendously because the timing of your claim did not make sense. You should have claimed if you were in threat of lynch after the coffee phase. It looked very poorly executed, and you got beef for it. That was a very bad play, but I, in this case, believe you were acting as a new player being bullied by a player and didn't understand the issue with such an early claim. I think your posts are flaily but it's because you are overwhelmed with the level of aggression in the game and did not expect such a negative experience. I think this is EXACTLY why such a hostile game is not only unfun but also counter-productive because it stifles conversation and, separately, fuels mislynches.

MattP wrote:
Metal Sonic wrote:And I'm town as hell so you'd better back the FUCK down

First off, I meant you are on the backburner from the perspective of everyone else. A wagon began forming on you and immediately died down when UT was anti-town and the transition feels like a scum -> town one.

Second, outside of the context of this game, do not curse at me. I don't need to tolerate that. I'm participating in this because it is enoyable, this is a game, I don't get when this forum started gaining such a meta for insulting people. Cut it out, thank you.

Third, I think if you were actually town you would be able to look at your play fairly and say it at least hasn't been eminently "towny" up to this point. You could at least argue the actions you've taken haven't been alignment indicative, but I think you are posturing by so hyper-aggressively asserting you've been super-town to this point that it should be obvious. Cursing in all caps is ridiculously over-the-top, and I believe it is scummy in this context.

MattP wrote:I skimmed, and I believe that Lynx is just playing horrendously. I believe his posts are "scummy" but I believe his unhappiness with the game and feeling of town being bullied is authentic. I think this is an easy lynch, and I think that MS slipped to the back burner BECAUSE he is scum, and this easy lynch drew traction with no resistance easily, all through from UT onward, because the slot is very potentially town.

I think LMP is the clearest town player in the game currently.

VOTE: MS


I think these posts just support Matt's claim that he found both slots (MS and Lynx/UT) scummy, but MS moreso. Later in the day (the posts I've quoted) he seems to think Lynx was just a noob playing anti-town but largely due to the aggression against his slot. I don't think it looks like he's sure of the town flip at all.

Which posts in particular support your claim that he used language giving the impression he knew for sure it was a mislynch?


Every single one of these quotes is AFTER we drank coffee. Go look at his position to that slot BEFORE those quotes. Then ask yourself this: do you think AFTER we had hammered UT/Lynx in the pseudo count & voted to drink coffee and were thus on a 48 hour deadline, that any of that had even an ice cubes chance in hell of getting this town to not lynch UT/Lynx?

THAT is my problem with it. That behavior stinks to high heaven.
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Post Post #432 (isolation #52) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:00 pm

Post by LimMePls »

Titus wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
Anatole Kuragin wrote:LMP is there any townie whose lynch you
wouldn't
force down our throats?


@everyone else: comment on this post please.


I just see him as highly scumreading you here.

Rather than throwing a question to everyone, why don't you try on commenting on things outside of your tunnel.


A) what tunnel
B) if there is something you think I need to comment on that I havent, please ask. I've commented on what I think needs commenting.
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Post Post #433 (isolation #53) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:02 pm

Post by LimMePls »

Dry-fit wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
Anatole Kuragin wrote:LMP is there any townie whose lynch you
wouldn't
force down our throats?


@everyone else: comment on this post please.

It's sensationalistic. Doesn't make him look more or less scummy to me. If I have a problem with Anatole it's that he's taking a naive view about Matt avoiding the Lynx wagon.

That said I have Matt as a pretty strong town read.

Vote: Metal Sonic.
Let's go back in this direction LMP.


Guess we can see where it takes us.

VOTE: MS
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Post Post #452 (isolation #54) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:11 am

Post by LimMePls »

MattP wrote:I don't get how you can be fence-sitting on votes between both myself and MS simultaneously, LMP.

Also, a big impetus for my read-change WAS the flow of the scumreads / coffee drinking / voting on Lynx. I explicitly stated so. I also wasn't available for a good amount of time leading up to where I did post my thoughts on Lynx. I only once was about to see what Lynx had posted prior to the coffee hammer, which was right after he claimed. I'm pretty sure I said I was really busy, not that you need to trust that but you can't exactly deny it.

I thought his claim was very awkward, and stated it was hilarious in thread. When I returned post-coffee lynch, I had seen how everything had played out regarding his behavioral response to the antagonism towards him and I had seen the dynamic of the coffee hammer and wagon buildup on him. I stated both of these were reasons for my change of heart on Lynx.

You're saying it's almost like I KNEW he was town. Obviously I'm going to have conviction if I want to have an effect on where the votes go. If I don't be convincing noone is going to listen to me. Good town are right in their reads and are compelling. You can't refute that my behavior is easily excusable as town-motivated.


After having instigated that wagon, and having seen it hammered in the hypothetical votes, and then having the coffee vote hammered, did you think you had any chance of getting us to lynch elsewhere in 48 hours?

I also don't understand how you could have gone from "UT slot
IS
scum" to "well, we have less than 48 hours, but I'm gonna push another wagon".
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Post Post #453 (isolation #55) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:12 am

Post by LimMePls »

Metal Sonic wrote:Oh, I quoted LMP, ah fak


So, what does that mean? You didn't mean to quote me, or you agreed with the post but just didn't realise it was from me? What?
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Post Post #454 (isolation #56) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:14 am

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MattP wrote:Second, regardless of your alignment, none of my pushes have lead in town mislynches up to this point.


THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE PLAY YESTERDAY FOLKS.
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Post Post #459 (isolation #57) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:15 am

Post by LimMePls »

MattP wrote:If I have a belief that something is a mislynch I am going to try my best to prevent said mislynch. Are you aware that you're grasping at straws right now with this argument?


So you would have preferred a no-lynch? Your conviction that Lynx was suddenly not scum, but town, was strong enough that you would have risked us not getting to another lynch?

I don't think I'm grasping at straws.

MattP wrote:I don't care that you initially scumread me going into today, and I wouldn't care in some cases if you continued doing so, but the continuance of your scumread on me is solely based on a stagnant view you have of my behavior yesterday and a repetition of explaining the situation without taking into account any information I am adding. Your read doesn't feel fluid at all to me, it feels like you came into today with this strong read to demonstrate conviction, and you are incapable of engaging in a town-like discussion following my input. Currently the day has gone as following for you.

"Matt is scum! [inserts reasons]"
*noone follows suit. You then fence-sit on three scumreads, one of which is a scumread I pushed yesterday in lieu of Lynx. You immediately unvote me and move onto another player while still pushing primarily me*
*People defend me. You keep repeating that you don't understand my play yesterday*
*I explain my play yesterday. You keep repeating that you don't understand my play yesterday*


Can you show me where I said I don't understand your play?

Also, what is the nature of your problem with me voting someone else but pushing you?
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Post Post #483 (isolation #58) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:31 am

Post by LimMePls »

MattP wrote:You JUST said you "don't understand how you could have gone from "UT slot IS scum" to "well, we have less than 48 hours, but I'm gonna push another wagon" when I just explicitly explained my thought process clearly regarding this.


Try explaining just this part, without all the other stuff in a short post for me. How could you have gone from "that slot IS scum" to "I'm so sure it's now not scum that I wanna try to push a different lynch on a short deadline, even though the town had already effectively hammered him once".

My issue with you acting the way you're acting is that you barely even pushed on me before shifting elsewhere, and you are scumreading me and MS simultaneously which is just unnerving.


Two things here. First, what is unnerving about scumreading you both? It's a pretty simple scenario: You wanted to distance from a scum lynch and park you vote on a buddy who had received enough pressure that he could flip somewhat soon, hoping to buy town cred.

Second, how can you say I've barely pushed you? THAT's unnerving.

I find this:

Metal Sonic wrote:Oh and Titus is lame for not answering my question or checking the game. Whatever.

Titus is 100% town and I want to work with you trust me and we can kill scum together Titus

I am 100% town


Pretty scummy coming on the heels of this (My bolding):

Dry-fit wrote:1. Metal Sonic: Don't like his , not advancing the gamestate even though hhe knows he should be able to.
Doesn't seem to want to work together or cooperate with anyone.
Like the wagon.


@Dry-fit: What do you mean when you say MS is "not advancing the gamestate even though he knows he should be able to".

Guyett wrote:VOTE: coffee

I think we need to have coffee of else we cant lynch someone today. Only 24 hours left in morning phase


I asked you not to disappoint me. Why have thou forsaken me?

PeregrineV wrote:
Metal Sonic wrote:Titus if I'm not town you can hang me


:lol:

BTW: if I were to vote for some random nullread right now, it probably would be you over SmashBros.


@PV: Can you flesh out your null read on MS further? Also, who are your top scum suspects right now?

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:@LynchMePls: The majority of your posts today have focused on MattP and to a lesser extent, Anatole Kuragin. By comparison, you only mentioned Metal Sonic twice today; one when you voted him and another at #453. Do you feel as Metal Sonic is the scummiest person today and if not, why do you feel as sheeping Dry-fit is better for the town than pushing a lynch on MattP or Anatole Kuragin?


I'm going to answer your question with questions: Are players only supposed to vote for the read they feel is "scummiest"? Is voting another wagon by default "sheeping", especially when you've previously said you read the slot scummy? Why do point out that I've only mentioned MS twice today, as if yesterday is irrelevant?

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:
Dry-fit wrote:
@SSBF:
What is your current read of Konowa?
I still believe that Konowa
could be
scum. His Day 1 play gives me bad vibe (fence-sitting on his read on UT at #62, saying that he'd lynch LMP at #83 and #95 stand out) and I've said before that there's a good chance that there's scum in the neighbors.


Accuse others of being scum for fence-sitting reads, while describing them as "could be" scum.

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:It's also worth noting that thestatusquo suspected shaddowez. If shaddowez is scum, I could easily see shaddowez sending in a kill for TSQ
(or getting one of his scum buddies to do it)
to minimize the risk of being suspected Day 2.


Nightkill spec like this is THE WORST.

@SSBF: Explain THOROUGHLY why you added the bolded part to that line of thought.

Titus wrote:I accept MS. Vote AK with me.

VOTE: AK


I endorse this product and/or service.

Guyett wrote:What is the point in voting now??? They don't count.


One of the most anti-town things you could possibly say. How can you say votes don't count. We literally just demonstrated yesterday that they absolutely count. AND YOU PARTICIPATED. As soon as he reached hammer number of votes, we drank coffee and lynched his ass. If that's "not counting", I don't know what fucking is.
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Post Post #498 (isolation #59) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:59 am

Post by LimMePls »

Guyett wrote:No they actually don't count... Its on the VC :shrug:


Then that part of the VC is wrong. Do you still dispute that our votes count? Did you not see what happened yesterday?
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Post Post #507 (isolation #60) » Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:50 am

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Vote: AK
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Post Post #509 (isolation #61) » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:04 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:still wrong


I don't think so.
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Post Post #511 (isolation #62) » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:54 am

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Does anyone else think this reaction is far too casual for someone who earlier claimed I could "force" the town to do things?
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Post Post #522 (isolation #63) » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:05 am

Post by LimMePls »

PeregrineV wrote:
Anatole Kuragin wrote:Want to lynch Dry-fit or MS I think.

Anatole Kuragin wrote:PV and Matt are townreads but I'm not super confident


The next question is, of course, why, but since I'm out for the weekend it's a looming question not a immediate response.


This post makes my skin crawl.
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Post Post #527 (isolation #64) » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:33 am

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PeregrineV wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:
Anatole Kuragin wrote:Want to lynch Dry-fit or MS I think.

Anatole Kuragin wrote:PV and Matt are townreads but I'm not super confident


The next question is, of course, why, but since I'm out for the weekend it's a looming question not a immediate response.


This post makes my skin crawl.


Why? It's basically saying "gut" is not allowed.


The part that makes my skin crawl is the part that basically says "I have a follow up, but no pressure, take your time answering it".
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Post Post #529 (isolation #65) » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:57 am

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Konowa wrote:I get that, but Pere is always VLA on the weekends so it's sort of null.


Ya, but why say any of that at all? I'm always V/LA on weekends, I've never posed a question to someone on a Friday and qualified it with a "but take your time". I don't see the purpose of that at all. Like I said, made my skin crawl.

Speaking of which:
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Post Post #555 (isolation #66) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:07 am

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Dry-fit wrote:Yeah looking over the AK votes again, not buying it.

@LMP and Titus: How the hell is AK a better vote than MS?


I don't know how to explain it to you more, especially when you already seem to understand. AK's "you forced us into a mislynch" shit is about as scummy as it gets.
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Post Post #601 (isolation #67) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:42 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:That was in reference to LMP's open recently where I had like 1/2 of the posts in the game and probably my worst play ever.


Don't follow what this post is trying to say.

I like farside's entrance to the game. I'm ready to drink coffee given we've hypothetical hammered, but I want to give farside time to be fully up to date.
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Post Post #654 (isolation #68) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:58 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:
PeregrineV wrote:
Titus wrote:
Anatole Kuragin wrote:Sorry pere, all I have is gut.


This is concerning to me. You do not generally rely on gut as town.


@Anatole- I was looking for a response to this before I brought it up, but finished reading and didn't see it. Please respond.


I don't have any cases to reveal. I like where farside is going on konowa though.


Ya, I bet you do.

Vote: coffee
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Post Post #663 (isolation #69) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:43 am

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Vote: AK
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Post Post #680 (isolation #70) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:15 am

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I do not like the Konowa wagon AT ALL. I think the UT/Lynx vs Konowa thing was Town vs Town. Pretty sure Konowa is the counter wagon to AK-scum.

I HATE that some people here (MS) were part of an imaginary lynching wagon on AK, but are now voting Konowa once we're in coffee phase.
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Post Post #682 (isolation #71) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:25 am

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farside22 wrote:I really, really don't like dry-fit's vote, but if you don't like konowa as scum can you tell me what you thought about lynx comment? Lynx never thought konowa was scum until konowa made the comment about what was posted in the QT and then lynx called him a liar for it. I don't see that coming from town being pissed and tunneling a lead, that comes from hey you fucker lied.


Lynx comment came off to me as defensive "Nuh UH! YOU'RE THE ONE NOT TALKING IN THERE". I get the feeling neither one of them was doing much of anything in the QT, and both reading that as scum the other being scummy. I unequivocally don't buy into the line of thinking that because they were having miscommunication, one of the two must be scum. The rest of Konowa's play has been fine (if a little lurky) to me. To illustrate the QT mess:

Konowa wrote:Someone asked something about UT in our neighbor thread, he didn't converse at all other than to say hi once and to ask what I thought later on. I asked shos in our neighbor thread specifically about the coffee stuff and shos replied in the neighbor thread so I would assume that UT would have understood the rules.

Konowa wrote:I think Lynx's lack of enthusiasm in the qt is pretty indicative of Scum to me. I think that if Town, he would actively use the QT to probe me lay out thoughts there. I was kind of stalling to see if he would make use of it. He didn't aside two posts prodding me to post.

LynxKuroneko wrote:Konowa is complete bs. I've been trying to get Konowa to talk, and they've said crap until that post up there. Do NOT let Konowa get away with that completely bull post. There's literally NO way to get you to post here through our channel, because you're going to do what you please (like you've been doing this whole time. Lurking, and suddenly showing up to hammer for gods knows why.)

Konowa wrote:So you cast aside the reasoning -why- I wasn't posting? Lynx's first post was to say hi after a recently completed game, second was him humming to Family Guy theme, third was asking why Shea tries to make himself unlikable as possible. I see no attempt to try and get me to talk. The prod dodgy (I know that's not what it is but the feel to it) feel to his posts gave me Scum waiting for me to post first so he could go from there. I wanted him to talk first and lay out his thoughts like he was doing in the game thread, the fact that he wasn't gave me Scum vibes. Like I said in the post you quoted.


To sum it up, it looks like this to me:

UT says hi.
Konowa asks mod some questions about the setup
UT asks Konowa what he thinks of something
UT replaced by Lynx
Lynx says hi
Lynx humms Family Guy tune
Lynx asks why Shea tries to make himself unlikable.
Konowa says Lynx "lacks enthusiasm" in the QT, and believes it's scummy.
Lynx calls him out in thread over it.

I don't see Konowa-scum putting himself in a 1v1 like that by lying about what happened in the QT. I also don't actually see what Konowa said as a "lie". Lynx just views it that way from his own frame of reference. So the whole thing reads to me like neighbors who are paranoid of each other, and has no bearing on their alignment as far as I can tell.
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Post Post #688 (isolation #72) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:19 am

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farside22 wrote:Alright lmp.
What about konowa's case. I feel like he is buddy up by defending you against ak.

Also the other issue I pointed out is Konowa says he would think town would try to question him, but no where did he ask UT anything. If he doesn't engage, why expect someone else to do so?


Konowa's case is essentially my case, so I totally agree with it (in a nut shell, AK wants to dismiss and pardon MattP/ika's involvment in the wagon, while trying to paint me as it's driver, in a bid to tar me and muddy town's view of me). If Konowa sees that as a scummy attack on a town read, why wouldn't he "defend" against it? I'd argue that I didn't even remotely need "defending", but why shouldn't he argue against it.

Is he buddying me? Sure, but I don't get why that's scummy. I buddy up to my town reads all the time. Hell, Titus and MS straight out called for being "in thread masons". Was that scummy? It's not a scum tell for me, not by a country mile.

As for the hypocrisy of expecting the other player to participate in the QT while not doing so himself, I don't see hypocrisy as a scum tell. People are hypocritical all the time, and often don't realize it, because they are experiencing things through the lens of their own perspective, and thus don't even see if their own behavior is suspect.
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Post Post #690 (isolation #73) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:54 am

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Claim: My flavor includes that at night I talk to myself.
It's not entirely clear if this is mechanical in any way. If this is in any way relevant to you, please keep it in mind. I hadn't puzzled out that it may be relevant until during the night of N1, and decided I didn't want to claim it before coffee phase. Make of this what you will.

I'm crazy uncomfortable with all the people who hypothetical voted AK to a hypothetical lynch, and are now NOT voting him. By my count that is:

Metal Sonic
ika
Guyett
Titus
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Post Post #696 (isolation #74) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:02 am

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ika wrote:im wanting to hear both sides of this aruement first.

im wondering if this entire fiasco is 2 towns being run up for wrong reasons or is one a legit scum push while other is counterwagon


If this were town-town, I'd expect one of them to already have been hammered. See how easy that day one wagon went after the hypothetical hammer. Super quick coffee, super quick lynch. The Konowa push in the face of AK lynch has all the hallmarks of a scum counterwagon to me.

Town tend to be suspicious of everyone.


IMO this is the crux of most fail towns. You can't be suspicious of everyone and ever hope to win this game. You have to identify likely town and work with them. Of course you have to be open to re-evaluation, but paranoia does not breed successful towns.
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Post Post #697 (isolation #75) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:03 am

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farside22 wrote:Ak lynch feels like the Lynx lynch but with more lurking.


Develop that thought more fully please.
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Post Post #700 (isolation #76) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:05 am

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ika wrote:im wanting to hear both sides of this aruement first.


ALSO, we're at 24 hours, and this town isn't exactly known for it's high level of engagement. This is not a good position to have. If you felt this way, you should have pushed back against coffee.

and if all the scums are already on it?


If you think that's more likely, name them please. Obv MS from your vote, but who are the other 2.
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Post Post #709 (isolation #77) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:11 am

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pedit; the hypotetical lynch is just for amusement purpous


I am so sick of this mindset. Seriously thinking about replacing out because of it. This is an AWFUL view of the game, and it is being bred by the ruleset.

@AK: Obv I think Konowa. I hated SSBF, but farside is making me feel better about it. Sadly just about everyone else has lurked/fluffed/not-engaged into null-dom, or is actively scummy. From D1, TSQ was my hands down no question town read, c'est la vie.
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Post Post #713 (isolation #78) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:14 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:Including Pere, who didn't think I was scum. Why would you vote for coffee if you weren't scumreading the top lynch candidate?


OMG, am I wrong about AK...
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Post Post #715 (isolation #79) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:15 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
pedit; the hypotetical lynch is just for amusement purpous


I am so sick of this mindset. Seriously thinking about replacing out because of it. This is an AWFUL view of the game, and it is being bred by the ruleset.

@AK: Obv I think Konowa. I hated SSBF, but farside is making me feel better about it. Sadly just about everyone else has lurked/fluffed/not-engaged into null-dom, or is actively scummy. From D1, TSQ was my hands down no question town read, c'est la vie.


It's really interesting that you're bitching about other people doing dumb shit with the mechanics of the game considering you voted for coffee to lynch someone who you have shit-all for a case against.


Not shit-all of a case, no matter how much you may say it is.

It may be wrong though.
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Post Post #716 (isolation #80) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:16 am

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Vote: Guyett


This is the play. You better not be scum AK.
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Post Post #717 (isolation #81) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:17 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:
LimMePls wrote:
pedit; the hypotetical lynch is just for amusement purpous


I am so sick of this mindset. Seriously thinking about replacing out because of it. This is an AWFUL view of the game, and it is being bred by the ruleset.

@AK: Obv I think Konowa. I hated SSBF, but farside is making me feel better about it. Sadly just about everyone else has lurked/fluffed/not-engaged into null-dom, or is actively scummy. From D1, TSQ was my hands down no question town read, c'est la vie.


It's really interesting that you're bitching about other people doing dumb shit with the mechanics of the game considering you voted for coffee to lynch someone who you have shit-all for a case against.


It's one thing to have a case others may not view as good. It's another thing entirely to purposely pursue an AWFUL town mindset for no logical reason at all. The reason why "lol, it's hypothetical, it doesn't count" is bad for town have been explained NUMEROUS times in the thread.
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Post Post #725 (isolation #82) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:26 am

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Anatole Kuragin wrote:The yellow names should be under a lot of scrutiny because that is 100% anti-town behavior.


This is unquestionably true.

Anatole Kuragin wrote:When PV voted for coffee he didn't seem to have any intention of voting for me as the clear leader in the hypothetical vote counts.


Also true.

Vote: PV


I'm willing to make that happen.

The thing is, LMP, both of you are responsible for throwing away a lot of time town could have had


The difference is that I was 100% ernest about my hypothetical vote on you. Don't believe that is true of Guyett.

That said, I don't wanna cry over that spilled milk. I own that I pushed for your wagon, and I own that once it was hypo-hammered, I drank coffee to secure the lynch. If you think that's me "wasting" our time, so be it.
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Post Post #753 (isolation #83) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:43 am

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Dry-fit is right, this is a cluster fuck, and it was precisely what should have been avoided by following the plan I outlined earlier.

Guyett is an acceptable compromise in a pinch.

Vote: Guyett
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Post Post #755 (isolation #84) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:06 am

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L-1
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