NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Ausuka]

VOTE: the worst

[Ausuka]

it's nice to spend time with adults.

I might have bad news for you.

Some of us older folks have our moments too, fren.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

Why is this scummy to you?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Skygazer

I feel like the description of raskol's NL vote as "LAMIST" is probably the scummiest thing in the thread so far.

[Ausuka]

I think I miiiiiiiiight know who hitalt is too

[Ausuka]

I'm glad dayvigs are explicitly banned from normal games so that we can put the boring and utterly unhelpful gambit to rest.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Wouldn't surprise me at all if {profii, inferno, gustavo} is all-town. Last two have tunnely playstyles but yeah that's NAI. Still suspect skygazer but this is good too.

Also brassherald is town.

[Ausuka]

As said previously {inferno, gustavo, profii} likely contains 0 scum and scum have probably been watching town implode so far. Let's try to put some focus on the real scum please instead of this. Is anyone willing to defend flubber?

[Ausuka]

That makes sense to me though w/profii? nolynching d1 definitely doesn't help the town. Like, I agree Rask's actions weren't scummy but I feel profii's actions weren't either.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Wouldn't surprise me at all if {profii, inferno, gustavo} is all-town. Last two have tunnely playstyles but yeah that's NAI. Still suspect skygazer but this is good too.

Also brassherald is town.

why is profii town?
any strong reason why Gustavo is town?

feels genuine + I've played with profii scum three times and this doesn't feel like it?

and this feels like a (stubborn?) town!gustavo to me.

[Ausuka]

I haven't played with you but I've seen you in games. Stubborn isn't exactly right which is why I put it in brackets like that but I can't think of a better word.

[Ausuka]

I don't think it's true that my ISO is naked, I have definitely given content.

Don't think I stated this explicitly but my issue with Flubber was the thing MOI pointed out: the point on Rask being scum coasting made no sense that early.

VOTE: Skygazer is a good wagon.

[Ausuka]

@tw; I think profii's general attitude towards Gustavo is good and his tone lacks a kind of (endearing awkwardness? again I don't know the right word for it but I feel like there's something present in his scumplay like this) that makes him hard to lynch and isn't really present here.

[Ausuka]

@ausuka, how would you rate/describe your own scum game?
In your own words, don't need to go in depth, but would appreciate more than "I suck" or "I'm good".

Sorry, just remembered this. I would describe myself as a pretty bad scum player. I consistently fail to get myself widely townread and usually get vigged or lynched because I guess I'm just bad at genuinely faking a town thought process. However I think I'm more charismatic as scum than town maybe because I sometimes get mislynch bait lynched instead of myself even when I'm really scummy.

[Ausuka]

sorry if I did something wrong. I was just trying to redirect the focus of the thread.

[Ausuka]

sorry if I did something wrong. I was just trying to redirect the focus of the thread.

Stop arguing with the mod!

I'm not trying to argue D:

[Ausuka]

That post was literally a few hours ago. I already gave thoughts on sky.

[Ausuka]

@Elbirn: I never said you were scummy. I just said your ISO was off and I didn’t know why.

But then what does this even mean? If feeling like I'm "off" doesnt mean that you feel like I'm scummy then what even do you intend to convey mate?

There’s something tonally pinging about your posts but I can’t tell if it’s just your playstyle or something else.
You’re not necessarily scummy, just someone I need to take another look at so I can sort you.

Nah.

[Ausuka]

Idk why that was on q+

[Ausuka]

You're going to maintain the assertion that you've given thoughts on Sky?

VOTE: Skygazer

I feel like the description of raskol's NL vote as "LAMIST" is probably the scummiest thing in the thread so far.

Yes I will. The above still applies for me.

[Ausuka]

@Elbirn: I never said you were scummy. I just said your ISO was off and I didn’t know why.

But then what does this even mean? If feeling like I'm "off" doesnt mean that you feel like I'm scummy then what even do you intend to convey mate?

There’s something tonally pinging about your posts but I can’t tell if it’s just your playstyle or something else.
You’re not necessarily scummy, just someone I need to take another look at so I can sort you.

Nah.

What do you mean by “nah?”

I wasn't talking to you I think I accidentally just clicked Q+ on your post. I was responding to davesaz.

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, nice Lucca avatar. I remember playing that game when I was, like, 5 and loving Magus. One of the few games that manages time travel with multiple timelines and doesn't botch it all under its own weight.

Thanks ^.^ I like the game too ofc, except Lucca is my favourite character instead of Magus

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Wouldn't surprise me at all if {profii, inferno, gustavo} is all-town. Last two have tunnely playstyles but yeah that's NAI. Still suspect skygazer but this is good too.

Also brassherald is town.

Townreads good.
Scumreads also good. Anyone pinging your 'dar?

Scumreading skygazer and flubbernugget so far, unsure where the other two scum would be.

As said previously {inferno, gustavo, profii} likely contains 0 scum and scum have probably been watching town implode so far. Let's try to put some focus on the real scum please instead of this. Is anyone willing to defend flubber?

Yes but who *are* the scum?

sky and flubber.

I don't think it's true that my ISO is naked, I have definitely given content.

Don't think I stated this explicitly but my issue with Flubber was the thing MOI pointed out: the point on Rask being scum coasting made no sense that early.

VOTE: Skygazer is a good wagon.

You would prefer Skygazer to Flubber at this juncture? What changed your mind?

Skygazer got a wagon so a vote there was more useful. I honestly suspect them both roughly equally.

p.s. I just reread Ausuka's 286 and what bothers me is she's like 'let's pressure the real scum' and says 'does anyone want to defend flubber'. Willing to admit I might be nitpicky here but it just reads like 'let's pressure the real scum' with the unsaid 'but someone else gets to find them as im gonna focus flubber'.

That was definitely not what I was trying to say. I think that flubber and sky were the real scum and most of the posting was related to Inferno/gustavo/profii back then iirc.

[Ausuka]

Hey Ausuka.

What do you think of [HitAlt, Rask, The Worst]?

Unsure what to make of hitalt, maybe a townlean because some of their posting seems odd to come from scum? Like asking me how good my scumgame is is an odd thing to ask as scum and feels more likely to be town going down some sort of rabbit hole. Good scum could probs fake it but meh.

Rask is a townlean to me, feels genuine and I think scum jumped on him for his NL vote.

the worst I'd also categorize as a townlean, he's good at scum but is also apparently really apathetic towards playing it nowadays and he doesn't look like that this game. Nothing about him pings me especially.

Here's a Lucca pic for your time. <3

-Andy

Thanks

[Ausuka]

@Ausuka: Are you ever gonna actually give us a read on Sky or no?

I've voted sky twice and talked about scumreading her for a disingenuous Rask vote. Seriously I do not get this attitude.

[Ausuka]

I'm pretty sure I was the first to suspect Skygazer so it also makes no sense that she called me opportunistic scum on her.

Sorry for multiposting I should stop now.

[Ausuka]

I like dave's posting just before he replaced out but there are a few things that bother me about Taly?

Aw sweet I rolled scum! That's one down guys, climb on board!

VOTE: Elbirn

Town. This is towny.

Self-votes/scumclaims are excusable in RVS.

Elbirn

is both ballsy and would be going against his wincon with this post. I feel like scum would

love

to muddy the waters over this post versus taking the intent and motive behind this post and thinking about it.

If

Elbirn

is scum, how does this help him? As town,

Elbirn

is gauging for reactions.

VOTE: No Lynch

Why?...

What is the difference between 22 and 73 to you?

"Look at me I'm so town"

I was just as confused when I first saw it.

Oh I can already tell this is my least favorite new buzzword

Elbirn

is obvtown to me. I really want to know why people didn't think this earlier, and if they don't now, I want an explanation.

Why does Elbirn sharing your thoughts on how useful an acronym is make him town?

You townreading Chickadee because she townreads your slot is also baffling to me.

[Ausuka]

Im not saying it aint genuine, im saying it's a lot of word that means very little and have nothing to do with the game.

The whole line of "Im bad at lying and am thus town" is such an easy cop-out

Not sure “thus town” was explicitly stated, however I am not sure what conclusion we are supposed to draw other than that

Why did you post this?

[Ausuka]

What is the difference between 22 and 73 to you?

22 was presumably RVS and I figured that the self-vote was solely to get attention brought onto him.

73 falls into the same category of pushing for attention and to strike discussion, so I felt this was also a post more likely to come from town.

But your immediate reactions to them were completely different? You talked about Elbirn being towny for it and for Rask you just gave a "why"? I don't really get the difference.

"Look at me I'm so town"

I was just as confused when I first saw it.

Oh I can already tell this is my least favorite new buzzword

Elbirn

is obvtown to me. I really want to know why people didn't think this earlier, and if they don't now, I want an explanation.

Why does Elbirn sharing your thoughts on how useful an acronym is make him town?

You townreading Chickadee because she townreads your slot is also baffling to me.

I didn't read into too much depth into it, but I liked the posting, and that influenced my read.

Right but like that's a matter of opinion and it seems unlikely scum!elbirn would blatantly lie about his opinion on how useful an acronym is which makes the fact that you then called him "obvtown"
And like the only thing you mentioned about Elbirn before this is his self-vote and your reaction to that seems overblown as well. Like there is no good reason why scum can't do that really and it feels like your mega townread on Elbirn isn't natural.

And no, the townread on

Chickadee

isn't solely because she townreads my slot, and I already stated that I wasn't as comfortable about my read on her as I made it in the readslist, I just wanted a reaction that could've helped solidify my read.

what else is it based on then? because you made no mentions of her in your catchup and "she townreads me" is the only thing you said about her. can you walk me through why you thought, "I will reaction test X specifically by saying that I'm townreading them because they're townreading me!" Like it seems really fishy that when Chick criticized two things from you, you said they were both looking for reactions and I have no idea why you make those really random and confusing reaction tests as town.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Wouldn't surprise me at all if {profii, inferno, gustavo} is all-town. Last two have tunnely playstyles but yeah that's NAI. Still suspect skygazer but this is good too.

Also brassherald is town.

And how is

brass

town again?

Why are you so sure

Gustavo/Inferno/profii

? At this point, you haven't really said anything about the

Inferno/Gustavo

1v1, even though it was escalating.

Brass has been kinda obvtown. Also iirc he Creature-level hates playing scum and it doesn't look like he's hating this game.

"wouldn't surprise me" =/= "so sure". Inferno feels genuine and I've played with him before, he plays like this as town. Gustavo is actually a really obvious alt of someone I've played with multiple times and I don't think this is abnormal coming from him- and again he just felt genuine this game. I've already given thoughts on profii I believe.

Yeah, I completely disagree with this assessment on

Gustavo

and I dislike how

brass

handled this.

-

Gustavo

was stating that the reasons on him weren't really based on pure, constructive game reasons - or ones that he could do little but dismiss. I feel like he was genuine here.

-

Gustavo

took a step further and said that he wasn't going to entertain people having a negative response since it likely wouldn't lead to a help in the game.

-

Brass

misconstrues this as "don't scumread me", even though that's bordering a misrep, it's a very superficial means of looking at his post and it's oriented in making

Gustavo

seem undignified in his thoughts.

Plus, why is it bad for someone to defend themselves?

Why would town want to submit to their lynch? Why would scum want to submit their lynch?

You state beliefs here that a) Gustavo is saying that he's not going to entertain people having a negative response to his posts and b) Gustavo is saying that he will defend himself from attacks. How do you believe both of these things?

[Ausuka]

this while honeypot thing from HitAlt feels like a lot of backpedaling and I'm not a big fan of it

can you explain this further please? because I'm not seeing it rn

[Ausuka]

scientific mafia large normal.

[Ausuka]

Yes, that's him, and yes, he routinely denies his alts are him until they go out of use.

[Ausuka]

heyyyy sorry I suck I'll get to this properly tomorrow hitalt is town and so is tw goodbye

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, why are you still voting Skygazer at this point?

I kinda have been floating through this game for a while and nothing really made me want to remove sky vote?

I'm gonna try to make a big post sometime soon/today because I need to do something like that to get back into the game.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: No Lynch

looking back at it I think this post is towny? The discussion going on up to this point wasn't really game-relevant and I think this provokes discussion whereas mafia would be satisfied with the gamestate as is.

at least in town!elbirns world he is reaction testing but the question I would ask is, let me know if you get anything useful? You generally don’t

this does look kinda awkward and waffly to me, on a reread? profii, what were you trying to say here?

Inferno feels genuine.

Also, I find it amusing that people are saying that Rask’s vote generates no discussion while we’re sitting here literally discussing it.

And yes ^ this is absolutely true and also makes me feel good about Inferno.

oshit xyzzy are you town this time?

tw why did you townread xyzzy from what they posted?

Agreed. In my onion I think the first reaction test (elbirn) is fine but the second one (rask) a bit LAMIST especially considering he never really followed up on it other than his read on inferno.
VOTE: rask

I still hate this and it still seems like a completely made up reason to hop onto Rask.

Tonereading profi's 86 and 114 as a bit defensive.

This also seems fake to me? Like, tonereading as x alignment is normal. The fact that Sky talked about tonereading it as a quality (defensiveness) and added "a bit" to soften it makes it look faked.

I like 87 for not jumping to conclusions I guess. We're supposed to get out of RVS but Inferno says this isn't a damning issue for now which is true. I don't think calling the entrance out is scummy, as it generates discussion and a seasoned player would know that the arguments formed in RVS are weak (so it's hard for scum to really push a mislynch). Correct?

In that case I think Elbirn would know that. If inferno or Profii is scum this could be Elbirn trying to grant him some credit but apart from that idk what the scum benefit of opening like this is.

In short yay we're out of RVS but I have no reason to believe either of those 3 is hard scum right now

I think this is weird tonally and I don't like it. The fact that he asked "correct?" for his opinion is really strange and I think it's trying to make himself look towny and uninformed- I don't see why town would ask something like that. The top part, "I like x i guess but y says z which is true." is also off. Looking at another town early game from HWS (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go) this seems very different.

I go to bed and literally the entire world posts while I'm asleep. LITERALLY!

Serious question to everyone, can anyone read profii? Because I always scum read him and its happening again, and I know I can't read him.

Also, HitAlt, am I one of the people you have played with in the past?

I dunno why but I get that a lot - I tend to stick to things that are factual or logical and people tend to be really scared of it but idk why.

for example, no lynching vote is a bad play as it is against our only way of killing scum. It's undisputable, it's not LAMIST as dave said, I'm just highlighting something that people were not talking about to get people to discuss it.

then a wagon formed on Rask - I think we will find opportunistic scum in there, but I'm just popping by on my lunch break so I'll check the VC later.

this feels genuine.

I'm done for today, I can continue and hopefully finish rereading tomorrow.

[Ausuka]

i think i'm going to stop being lazy right about now

[Ausuka]

VOTE: dramonic

I think I'm more okay with this than other options? Kinda thing the way hitalt got swarmed is indicative of them being town by a lot. xyzzy is better but meh their posts don't actually feel all that empty + this has momentum. again sorry for being bad and not finishing readthrough. kinda got distracted recently by marathons and watching england vs sweden.

[Ausuka]

Hmm!

@Mod: does this game follow the new Normal guidelines?

[Ausuka]

Ah ok that makes sense. I believe the claim now.

VOTE: xyzzy

[Ausuka]

hi i'm here and should do something but i don't know what to say :/

how are people reading HWS?

[Ausuka]

Haha. This is interesting.

Dram's flip likely makes this a lot easier.

[Ausuka]

Ok so first of all I think raskol is town.

[Ausuka]

I'm going to assume mafia didn't really bus their roleblocker because yeah.

Stabbing flavour doesn't really mean SK.

[Ausuka]

Actually it does, and I originally read that post as even night for some reason.

10/10 will vote dram
Jk xyzzy we good today

Wait no I lied to you

(Acceptable Modifiers):
Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, Enabler (with or without primary role present), Macho, Neighbor, Non-Consecutive Night, Weak, X-Shot, Ninja, Loyal, Disloyal, Loud, Multitasking, Informed, Activated,

any modifier restricting to a specific set of nights (e.g. Even/Odd Night, Night Specific, Novice)

Ok so mafia knew dram was really the role he claimed (just scum) and I don't think this is faked.

[Ausuka]

HWS slot feels more towny post-dram flip too.

[Ausuka]

I kinda want to vote chickadee but not sure if I can really justify that? I guess I just feel like the way she pushed through flub feels off.

Also that picture is amazing andrius <3

[Ausuka]

@taly; don't really get the tw scumread? I feel like his dram interactions are really good and him saying he's not a mechanics wizard is in no way scummy or something that's been exclusive to this game. I don't see why the worst downplays his mechanics understanding as scum while in reality he actually understands mechanics well? Because that seems like something pointless to lie about that would get caught out.

sure VOTE: chickadee

[Ausuka]

dramonic - Inferno390, Taly, the worst, HitAlt, HeWhoSwims
HitAlt - Andrius, Skygazer, dramonic, xyzzy, Flubbernugget, Raskolnikov

feel like the dram wagon is full of town + there is probably going to be more than just dram for scum on Hitalt? so one or more of {andrius, skygazer, xyzzy}

[Ausuka]

dramonic - Inferno390, Taly, the worst, HitAlt, HeWhoSwims
HitAlt - Andrius, Skygazer, dramonic, xyzzy, Flubbernugget, Raskolnikov

feel like the dram wagon is full of town + there is probably going to be more than just dram for scum on Hitalt? so one or more of {andrius, skygazer, xyzzy}

What's your individual read of

{andrius, skygazer, xyzzy}

?

Andrius is ??? don't really know tbh.
Skygazer is scummy and has been for the whole game.
Xyzzy is also kinda null but maybe nulltown? will have to look through it more but feel like xyzzy and dram wagons were competing at points.

[Ausuka]

Andrius is ??? don't really know tbh.

I can be your Chrono.
Nothing else matters.

crono avatar

[Ausuka]

VOTE: The Worst
Other than me, TW is the one that was really against the Dram wagon, and has kinda played off his fluff posting as "not wanting to clog the game thread." It kind of feels like hiding behind the chill nature of the game.

What? TW has given more content than most people here. And how has he been even remotely against the dram wagon?




(also yeah chrono x lucca is basically canon)

[Ausuka]

VOTE: dram

decided

????????????????????

[Ausuka]

(pedit: Isn't Chrono/Marle canon though?)

well yeah but it's canon to me

[Ausuka]

I'm honestly townleaning chickadee after this but like it's still probably optimal play to lynch her and get two lynches? maybe not if she will vengekill tw.

pedit: How? Why?

[Ausuka]

Your points against tw were:
1) he was the other person against dram wagon (false: others were against dram wagon other than you and the worst was very much supportive of it)

2) he's fluffposting? which is like NAI and he's been giving a lot more content than a lot of people


I don't get how you can vote on tw after this? especially after he was one of the players leading the charge against dramonic, the mafia roleblocker.

[Ausuka]

i guess we can wait for the vig. i still don't get scumreads on tw at all.

[Ausuka]

oh am I wrong again

[Ausuka]

claim loyal fruit vendor

targeted raskol n1

VOTE: magnaofillusion

[Ausuka]

Loyal means your target will fail if you target someone of another alignment. So if Raskol was mafia he wouldn't have received fruit.

Pedit: yeah

[Ausuka]

HI I'M ALIVE SORRY

[Ausuka]

i'm fine with lynching elbirn.

[Ausuka]

Ausuka why did you choose to target me btw?

I thought to myself "who do I not have strong thoughts on and is fairly unlikely to be lynched or nightkilled in the near future?" and I decided that you fit that category best.

[Ausuka]

Uhhhh. I know I'm supposed to say things but I don't really have coherent reads atm.

[Ausuka]

MOI is oddnight so coordinating this probably isn't an issue but just in case I'll fruit vend in the bottom half of the playerlist.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Elbirn

This feels better.

[Ausuka]

the worst, Inferno390, Skygazer- possible scum votes on profii wagon.

Off to a strong start here. I really wanna kill profii or Elbirn now.

VOTE: profii

FYI, I’m still for Elbirn. This is just to prevent stupidity and to push some pressure in Profii’s direction.

Okay yeah after reading up just now I can see profii as scum and profii makes sense as an Elbirn partner too. I can do iso's if anyone wants but here are some general points I've noticed while phoneposting:

He seems hyperfocused on analyzing the Rask wagon and doesn't seem to want to do much scum hunting beyond that. He continuously throws shade at me during D1 but avoids voting (early on possibly to avoid being read as opportunistic after HitAlt pointed out his honey pot and later on probably because my wagon had no momentum anymore). I would argue that myself and flubber (now that he's flipped town) were very safe scumreads to have in this game. He also keeps throwing shade at Gustavo/Taly, another safe scum read to have at that point and possibly a good candidate for a mislynch as well assuming my read on Taly is correct. He throws a tiny bit of shade at dram but never pushes hard and never even comments on the claim either, so that's sus. Then there's his vote on the xyzzy wagon that comes out of nowhere, basically jumping ship from flubber to a different wagon (also a likely mislynch) with little reasoning beyond momentum.

As others have pointed out there's also a ton of information instead of analysis. It's also interesting to note that he really doesn't talk about Elbirn at all or dram until the wagon forms.

When Elbirn flips scum we'll have two scum down so I'm fine with being a mislynch after that tbh especially if it keeps me away from lylo situations. After that though, please consider looking at profii.

hot take: we lynch profii and let tw kill elbirn or vice versa

[Ausuka]

Gonna slap Ausuka for her scumlist on the Elbirn wagon.

Not sure what you mean by this? If you mean my list of possible scum on the profii wagon- I meant that in the literal sense because for me it's not possible for raskol to be scum.

[Ausuka]

MOI is oddnight so coordinating this probably isn't an issue but just in case I'll fruit vend in the bottom half of the playerlist.

This.
This bothers me.
MoI has claimed Loyal oddnight FV.
Ausuka has always only claimed Loyal FV.
Doesn’t anyone else find this discrepancy odd?

this is somewhat odd, yes. i recently read that apparently duplicates aren't allowed in normals? so this would technically get around that but at the same time it would be a bit gamey.

MOI is oddnight so coordinating this probably isn't an issue but just in case I'll fruit vend in the bottom half of the playerlist.

If he's oddnight you should only limit your targets same nights ftr, but pointless to do so e.g. n2

Yeah, I retract my earlier statement. I'll just fruitvend wherever I want. Hopefully there is no mafia tracker.

Tell me why there is a great chance of scum in {Taly/Elbirn} in 3 sentences or less, then give me which one you suspect more, profii.

I want to get a succinct statement.

^good posting

Both the Mafia and the Serial Killer should want to shoot confirmed / likely Town

I'm roughly at Elbirn ?= Profii > Xyzzy > HeWho > Sky in that last grouping

Profii again please talk about your progression 1948
your response doesn't address my actual concerns

How do you think there's scum in taly/elbirn and don't feel like straightening it out but just eeeeeeh lets lynch elbirn and if town I guess sus taly
I really want to know how you're comfortable going along with taly as so whilst scumreading him

I mainly think there is scum in Taly or Taly is very wrong somehow, but I think Taly isn't that wrong by accident as he is a good player - he has scum caught more before.

what??? are you saying here that you do not believe that Taly, as town, could push town?

what I was trying to say with my earlier post is that a lot of people seem to be saying that Elbirn, who has a large wagon, is scum, but wagoned profii instead because ??? i kinda feel like profii has scum equity now though? idk

[Ausuka]

The following modifiers are also immediately considered whitelisted:
Multitasking: you may use multiple abilities, including factional abilities, in the same night.

sorry if i'm contributing to normal game rules spam but I feel like this is an important thing to point out.

[Ausuka]

Plan doesn't go ENTIRELY out of the window and I highly doubt the NRG would approve of a game with the entire scumteam having the 'Multitasking' modifier but S I G H.

yeah, I was trying to imply there that it makes sense for there to be a Mafia Multitasking Fruit Vendor who can fruitvend and kill so that they aren't implicated when they stop giving out fruit.

Gonna slap Ausuka for her scumlist on the Elbirn wagon.

Not sure what you mean by this? If you mean my list of possible scum on the profii wagon- I meant that in the literal sense because for me it's not possible for raskol to be scum.

Yeah I meant the Profii wagon.
And the reason I said this is because due to the dram flip and subsequent happenings, TW is either vig or SK, and I’m basically conftown. (I’ve been floating this a lot, I know, but I dare someone to find a good case on me that takes my tunnel on dram into account. I DARE you.)

So saying TW-Myself-Sky are possible scum votes is akin to shading Sky as scum at this point. And I think that’s just blah.

it doesn't really matter how obviously town you think yourself to be; it is possible that you are red. it is not likely that you are red at all but because it's possible you belong in a list of possible scum votes.

And Ausuka's also been real quiet which is unsettling.

i'm trying.

i feel like every post profii made recently is kind of a scumclaim to the point where I'm not sure scum would behave in this way :/

[Ausuka]

@Ausuka:
So I’m not likely to be scum, but my vote on Profii makes me possible scum?
Really?

No? How was that even remotely implied?

[Ausuka]

Because it's possible that you're scum???? I don't have to think something is likely for it to be possible. That's not what possible means. It is not impossible for you to be scum, regardless of reads on you; therefore you are possible scum.

[Ausuka]

Also announcing targets doesn't work because the traget can claim two fruit regardess of what actually happened.

[Ausuka]

I'd rather see a

HeWhoSwims

flip over

xyzzy

at the moment.

I really dislike that no major wagon has had resistance this dayphase, and I don't trust that this is all because of scum.

sorry if I missed this in your ISO but why are you scumreading HWS? i believe you thought he was town early d2.

my gut says profii is town maybe? but i don't really know

[Ausuka]

(just crossposting this over all of my games to say i'm going to spain for two weeks and won't have access to PC. i'm not on much nowadays anyway so my activity shouldn't, like, dramatically decrease, but i'll be less able to read through the game, make quotes, etc.)

i think HWS jumping off dram after claim isn't scum-indicative. i don't mind lynching xyzzy but i feel like elbirn/a50 may have been scummier? and that getting flips on the table is likely more useful than what we're doing right now

[Ausuka]

VOTE: xyzzy

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

Not a huge fan of the suspect pool rn actually because it feels like we're missing something.

Sky what do you think of profii's recent posts?

[Ausuka]

I wish I had coherent reads this game so I could talk about my top scumreads.

I feel that profii's town? I agree with xyzzy about him and also think that xyzzy feels town in their recent catch-up. Particularly I would say the profii's defense is accurate and non-survivalist.

Can someone explain why popcorn would be helpful? To me it seems like a terrible idea that gives scum a chance to weasel out of the fruit vend.

VOTE: HWS feels the best of these three wagons. His play has been very meh in d1 and the dram vote is the only factor in his favour. It's possible scum saw the dram wagon and voted him up to claim so the wagon would go away and we would lynch town.

[Ausuka]

How can scum exploit the current system?

Loyal fruit vends might be worth less now ftr since we don't know if mafia have a tracking role.

[Ausuka]

Can you walk me through how xyzzy is completely ignoring the game narrative inferno?

[Ausuka]

But how does this help? You still have people at the end of the chain being able to predict it. If we're really worried about this, nobody should post until whoever received fruit claims.

[Ausuka]

i dislike both of these wagons!

[Ausuka]

I am voting HWS and he is scummier than profii imo.

[Ausuka]

Gamma Emerald
Inferno390
Chickadee
Raskolnikov
Taly
Andrius

[Ausuka]

1) Hit

softed an investigative role where he found out that

TW

made a kill N1.

TW

claimed he shot

Dram

, there's been no counter to this. So it's mechanically impossible that

TW

is groupscum with this information being valid, and that he's confirmed to be a killing role that's not mafia.

2) Chick

is not going to last to lylo. I can't see that happening. She's either Town-Venge with high NK equity, or she's going to be lynched prior to lylo because a Venge in lylo, regardless of alignment, is town gamethrowing tbh - very bad odds for town numerically, and that's not speaking logistically.

I don't like

Chick's

play a whole lot and I do understand the suspicion there, but claiming Venge, especially D2, is extremely unsurvivalistic imo

unsure if you know this but vengeful players can't be scum in normals.

xyzzy's profii's vote is bad I guess and since the game kinda needs to move on I'll give intent to hammer.

[Ausuka]

Perhaps would say a bit more but I don't want to help scum guess my target.

Bye Andrius

[Ausuka]

Meh let's do this I'll just fruit vend somebody else.
VOTE: Skygazer

[Ausuka]

Duckling, regardless of how this day ends, please vig in {A50, profii's, xyzzy, HWS} and I will fruitvend for scum outside of those players.

[Ausuka]

The logical in that is that I'm not conftown and it makes no sense for the vigpool to be shaped around my own reads. Personally I believe vig is most effective when used as a second lynch. Every shot in that pool, if town, denies scum a likely mislynch later in the game.

[Ausuka]

The logical in that is that I'm not conftown and it makes no sense for the vigpool to be shaped around my own reads. Personally I believe vig is most effective when used as a second lynch. Every shot in that pool, if town, denies scum a likely mislynch later in the game.

That doesn't remotely answer my question. Why are you nit voting xy who is already a strong lynch candidate if you suspect them enough to include them in your Vig pool.

Let me be blunt: The word on the street is that you're scum together. This is what scum do to their partners. They FoS them but try not to lynch them. They include them in a lynch/Vig pool but hope it never lands on them.

Additional unsubstantiated sources tipped me scum might have a RB even, or intend to take out the Vig tonight so a 25% on xy being the Vig shot there.

So, if you're for an xy Vig shot you should be for an xy lynch and Sky can replace them in the Vig pool if she must.

It does answer what you're saying. You're just being dense or scum.

[Ausuka]

Because Chick is realistically just town.

[Ausuka]

It does answer what you're saying. You're just being dense or scum.

no it doesn't

i'm saying that the vigpool is of players the majority read as scum, i.e not based on my own reads. this is because tw, as the vig, will realistically be looking to target players who are currently seen as scummy enough to get a major wagon, and although i want it to, this does not include Skygazer.

i'm fine with lynching xyzzy if we need to and if I really wanted to avoid that i wouldn't have defended profii. if that happens I'm fine with not targeting sky. all i'm doing is making sure that tw targets in the wagons so i can target outside that and he won't vig my target. as of now, Skygazer is not a wagon so she doesn't fit in the pool of lynchbait that i believe tw would be willing to shoot in.

is this clear enough or do i need to write more?

[Ausuka]

What I'm proposing is already that.

[Ausuka]

What are you doing????

I HAVE AN INNO ON RASK

[Ausuka]

profii isn't scum.

VOTE: almost50

[Ausuka]

the scum on profii is Skygazer/you.

the scum on xyzzy was you/moi/maybe brass or tw especially if you count sk.

VOTE: Skygazer

[Ausuka]

you know this may be an unpopular opinion but i dont really townread xyzzy "posthammer" usually town spew a bit or try to reiterate a read or something

You mean like how you did since you were going to get shot tonight?
LAMIST.

why are you accusing my clear of being lamist? I seriously don't see how scum!Rask is a concern to you when you don't even seem to be scumreading me.

[Ausuka]

==> Vote Count 1.7 <==

With 17 votes in play, it's 9 to lynch!

It's crunch time. Once-mighty blue has been reduced to the South American continent. On their turn, blue reinforces their position mightily, with their last remaining cards. Sizing up their targets carefully, the blue team strikes northward, taking Central America to weaken yellow. Green starts its turn disadvantaged. It holds Europe and Africa, but yellow holds Asia, Australia, and the bulk of North America. They wisely realize that their only chance is to starve out yellow, which is fairly overextended, and strike eastward from Ukraine and Egypt, chewing up portions of Asia and breaking through to strike at the heart of yellow's enterprise, pushing as far as Indonesia. Yellow starts awkwardly, with plenty of standing forces out of position and scant reinforcements. They choose to not contest North America, and concentrate on kicking green back out of Australia and Asia. The dice roll well for yellow, and they take the opportunity to return the favor and take Ukraine, denying green the bigger continent bonus.

[L-9]

Elbirn -

[L-9]

MagnaofIllusion -

[L-9]

Ausuka -

[L-9]

brassherald -

[L-9]

the worst -

[L-4]

dramonic - Inferno390, Taly, the worst, HitAlt, HeWhoSwims

[L-3]

HitAlt - Andrius, Skygazer, dramonic, xyzzy, Flubbernugget, Raskolnikov

[L-9]

Skygazer -

[L-9]

Inferno390 -

[L-9]

Chickadee -

[L-6]

xyzzy - Elbirn, brassherald, Ausuka

[L-9]

HeWhoSwims -

[L-6]

Flubbernugget - MagnaofIllusion, Chickadee, Profii

[L-9]

Raskolnikov -

[L-9]

Taly -

[L-9]

Andrius -

[L-9]

Profii -

Nursing their beer (Not voting)

-

No one is in prod range.

Deadline will be extended by one day due to my partial absence over the last few days. My schedule has normalized, and you may now expect more regular moderation.

Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-10 15:40:00)

Haven't thought about it much yet but this is probably interesting to look at.

[Ausuka]

Obviously scum on hitalt is dram but I feel like there's probably gonna on {sky, xyzzy} since there are three people clear there assuming Andy and MOI aren't scumbuds.

[Ausuka]

I was mostly looking at the dynamics of dram wagon. I doubt scum were very concerned about which of two townies they wanted to lynch.

Ftr Pine never behaved like this with any other replacement. Like the thread never got locked. Could that mean something? I guess maybe Pine thought Andrius made the game better or something?

[Ausuka]

I don't understand why sky knew about the policy but at the same time I don't know if this is really scum indicative?

[Ausuka]

Aw sweet I rolled scum! That's one down guys, climb on board!

VOTE: Elbirn

Ah look, some WIFOM, this will help us

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

Uhhh. Am I being stupid or are the "replacements automatically unvote" and "lock the thread while asking people to come back" policy different things?

I think HWS could be scum yes.

[Ausuka]

For the quotes from profii I meant to ask if they could be S/S but I forgot to write it :/

[Ausuka]

I think either HWS or Sky is scum but not both looking at their interactions.

Do you still believe this game has 3 scum btw??

[Ausuka]

I wish I was on a PC rn.

Almost51
MagnaofIllusion
brassherald
the worst
Skygazer
xyzzy
HeWhoSwims
Profii

^ So apart from the person who might be my fruitvend target this should be a complete list of where scum are right? obviously not looking for "you could be scum!!!!" comments just wanna make sure I'm being reasonable.

[Ausuka]

I'm just uninterested in a xyzzy lynch so I'm gonna be lazy and skip their ISO. Mainly want to look over sky and profii again.

[Ausuka]

Ok so now we have Rask content... easily town

Can you explain this profii?

hang on hang on hang on.

Flubber posturers over that mini Rask wagon.
Ausuka then votes for Rask,
if you look at the Ausuka ISO, from my POV there is a bit of buddying, agreeing with my point about the Rask No lynch. Also, she states she has played my scum game 3x, we've also played scum together so she knows I know her scum game.
Then Ausuka gets on 5th place of the Sky wagon - a handy way to get off that town-cred bus flubber vote.

The only reason I went back to look at that is Dave pointed out the lack of opinion on sky, which dave is correct to highlight.

no way is that 2 scum in day 1 but lol if it is.

This post is abysmal.

Not willing to quotewall on mobile but I'm mixed w/ profii rn. He feels towny especially compared to my games with him when he was scum a few months ago. I've never seen town profii but this could be it? Also the willingness to be lynched is towny and I don't know why people write it off as wifom?

OTOH his play seems to mostly centre around voting Flub d1 and I hate the way he calls me and rask scum d2; despite his strong tr on Task earlier!

Am I missing anything important?

I'm probably not going to get responses rn so I'll look over Sky again and then leave.

[Ausuka]

it's twisting the evidence to fit the narrative and I think the fact that you said me hopping on sky was just a ploy to hop of flubber is just evidence of that. There's no reason to believe that over the much simpler "Ausuka scumreads Sky or is just scum making that push"

The last sentence also makes no sense because you're trying to discredit your own case????

[Ausuka]

1) no. SK is scum imo and the optimal play for anyone but tw who shot Dram is obviously to stay quiet and shoot tw at night.

2) andrius was obvtown and I doubt MOI faked an inno on his buddy like that. chick is town because Nosferatu is town.

3) hmmm it's almost like you don't need to literally case someone for them to be potential scum

3)

[Ausuka]

idk why that last 3 is there!!!

[Ausuka]

hey look i said i wouldn't make a quotewall but i'm doing it anyway because i'm a masochist I guess??? whee

Agreed. In my onion I think the first reaction test (elbirn) is fine but the second one (rask) a bit LAMIST especially considering he never really followed up on it other than his read on inferno.
VOTE: rask

This is just a scumpost. It's very tonally off, has a lot of the read minimization I see in scum often, and to top it off the reason for it seems totally made up.

Tonereading profi's 86 and 114 as a bit defensive.

And yeah this is along the same lines. I think I talked about this earlier but basically it's like a strange scumread on profii except she hesitates to really scumread profii properly. Like, duckling, you remember Rei in 1791 right? This is like that, scum trying to look uninformed imo.

That's a lot to take in. Some thoughts:

Reevaluated my read on Rask, I think my logic was flawed as people have pointed out.
UNVOTE:

Getting townvibes from brass and elbirn. Magna's frustration towards spam posters seems genuine and town.

Not sure if Gustavo would act so belligerent if he were scum, wouldn't scum want to avoid drawing that kind of attention?

I need to get to posting so that I'm above that 20 post mark.
I'd hate to be under any scrutiny.

This pings me slightly, unless this was just a joke?

Still trying to internalize everything that just happened and I haven't really had many chances to interact with people so I feel pretty behind.

I might just be tunneling at this point? but I sorta dislike the backtracking @ rask and most other things about this post. Like, nothing here is really AI. Magna not liking spamposting is a position either alignment can hold and idk how town gets this read. Gustavo read is a bit more understandable but like that's just playstyle anyway. Even if you think Hitalt's joke is serious, how in the world can that only "ping you a bit"?

Well you can try no

Why are dave and chickadee sscum? you seem to imply they are.

I pointed it out specifically to try and respond, and it's worked so far because I got brass to explain his read.

I wasn't really satisfied to dave's answer in 459 and his response to t_w's question in 471 is also unsatisfying. He doesn't explain why he would be satisfied with that answer, it's just a straight matter-of-fact yes which kind of pings me. It reads like he doesn't even want to clarify his point. Also 85 seems like safe fence-sitting fluff but that's been pointed out and it was so long ago.

I feel like chickadee has less content than me and I've been lurking pretty hard by this point so that's pretty sus but she could also just be in the same situation I've been in.

Read in chick for lurking by someone who had kinda been lurking is v meh. I did that in my first scumgame iirc and so did Myloninja.

sky- I didn’t like that unvote but I appreciate not everyone has loads of time - I certainly avoid games any bigger than this because I am not sharp enough to keep up properly so I’d like to say to sky please provide 3 scum reads and why

Three top scumreads for the moment, in order:
dave's slot, as I've already discussed
Ausuka for sheeping/hopping onto wagons, lack of reads, lack of reasonings, etc. I said earlier that I think there's at least one opportunistic scum on my wagon and I think this is the most likely option in regards to that.
Flubber, I don't like how he jumped on chickadee for "PT-slipping" when it's clearly stated in the rules, and there's the whole "coasting" post that Magna pointed out

I lost my grasp on the chickadee scumread after rereading her and seeing more content than I remembered and I like her most recent interaction/vote on flubber.

Skygazer, can you point to any specific Elbirn posts that have you town reading him?

22, 75, 77 and 79 feel like he's genuinely trying to create content early on. I don't really get how people are scumreading these for being pushy when the pushiness was useful in helping us get out of rvs. 125 doesn't have game content but I'm reading it as relaxed/carefree which is a towntell imo. I also like 507.

read on me is ??? because I was first on her wagon and gave reasoning for it. Again, don't see how this read is real.

Strong townreads so far in order: brass, MoI, Andrius, and elbirn

brass has lots of good content which imo definitely outweighs the fluff, and I like the fact that he's genuinely trying to keep his fluff posting down now
MoI continues to post good content and I like their reads for the most part
I like Andrius's 570 and like I stated earlier I don't see gus's behavior coming from scum
I talked about elbirn in my last post

I would consider this to be a bad townpool although tbf this isn't really scummy but these players are worth looking at if Sky does red.

@Skygazer want readlist from you, also response to flubber answers you said you were waiting for

Response to flubber is above.

Readlist

Strong Town

Magna
Andrius
Elbirn
xyzzx
brass

Town Lean

profii
Rask
Inferno
Ausuka - has some good posts, I'm just offput by her tunnelling of me

I Don't Know How To Sort These Players To Be Quite Honest

dram
the_worst
Taly - dave was scummy, Taly has made some good posts since he's been here tho
Chickadee

Scum Lean

HeWhoSwims - I don't like 832 where he has like six different scumreads he's willing to vote for

Strong Scum

flubber
HitAlt

Very bad readslist imo, especially the strong scum section. Flubber and hitalt scumpool is very convenient. She also never really attempts to sort dram at all.

Tonereading profi's 86 and 114 as a bit defensive.

This also seems fake to me? Like, tonereading as x alignment is normal. The fact that Sky talked about tonereading it as a quality (defensiveness) and added "a bit" to soften it makes it look faked.

Not sure what you mean about tonereading as a quality? I can say that that wasn't meant to soften anything, more to point out that profii wasn't being full blown defensive, just a bit. In hindsight though it just looks like he was trying to get information out of Gus which is NAI to me.

Don't like that last series of flubber posts (975 to 978).

HitAlt's 979 is flaily enough for me to keep my current vote for now, though.

More flubber and hitalt pushing???
also, i don't really see the "a bit" defensive thing?

at this point I realized I had bitten off more than I could chew and stopped quoting things

[Ausuka]

I don't get why scum MOI with town andrius is not possible.

[Ausuka]

i have a new policy of not responding to inferno390

[Ausuka]

A50 is playing yes.

I want to respond to Skygazer rn but i don't have the time or energy in me right now. sorry.

VOTE: HWS seems more viable than any other good lynch rn.

don't get why MOI saw me ask not to make comments like "actually you could be scum too!!!" and then did that anyway unless he's scum who prioritizes looking like he has conviction in his push over actually helping town.

[Ausuka]

the lynchpool is literally Taly's scumpool from earlier and he's made a lot of caselike posts so probably iso him.

[Ausuka]

Uhhh I might be being stupid but


I think this might be multiball

[Ausuka]

no but really i already thought of that
VERY unlikely 2 scumteam kills did not go through
unless you are speccing TW as a multiball member

That was the implication, yes. TW would be a wolf.

[Ausuka]

Nosferatu's posts have been pretty Bad so far and I'm starting to wonder if my Andrius tr was wrong. If so MOI is obviously going to be on the same team right? And I think it makes sense if Jingle slot is visitor to MOI's fruitvendor. Taly's 3 scum conviction from earlier also makes sense if he is multiscum. Perhaps it explains all the roles as well.

Or this is all just crazy and I'm going down a rabbit hole but I wanted to get it out there before I die n2.

[Ausuka]

Scum loyal fruit Vendor doesn't make sense. Disloyal is kinda weird because you're not gonna be vending your own team anyway. Scum fruit Vendor is probs just that.

[Ausuka]

Town loyal would make sense, if your target doesn't get fruit then they're on the other team.

Town loyal makes sense, yeah. If you mean scum loyal; loyal means your action will only work on a player of the same alignment, not necessarily Town.

Scum loyal fruit Vendor doesn't make sense. Disloyal is kinda weird because you're not gonna be vending your own team anyway. Scum fruit Vendor is probs just that.

Well I guess when you can see the scum Fruit Vendor Role PM pretty easy to make that assessment.

I eagerly await the time either I flip (and Ausuka has to scamble to pretend 2 Town Vendors make sense) or she flips (and I can rub it in everyone’s face).

I mean no-one seems to be even putting any thought into the fact that Town reading Andyslot and Gamma means her role is OP if Town given the scum flip of a Limited Blocker.

wow I guess I'm caught now. after all, there's no possible explanation for understanding how normal games work than having your role PM contain the information.

a worse cop is in no way overpowered in a large game like this. Loyal fruit vendors work in mini games. It should be pretty damn obvious to everyone here that a loyal fruit Vendor is not even remotely overpowered- even with other investigatives- in a game this size.

no but really i already thought of that
VERY unlikely 2 scumteam kills did not go through
unless you are speccing TW as a multiball member

That was the implication, yes. TW would be a wolf.

Oh gosh whyyyyy *facedesks*

?

[Ausuka]

I'm only engaging in multiball spec because I'm worried that I'll die tonight before I get to a PC and say what I want to say.

I don't think I get "it"

Taly what are your reads on the players with claims?

I feel that xyzzy and profii are both town and we have over 36 hours left.

[Ausuka]

people seem v content to lynch them and they've seemed genuine recently. this really doesn't feel like a lynch on scum at all. Also like I know someone said it's optimal to just say "I was town" in twilight but like I think I rarely see that?

[Ausuka]

Taly what are your reads on the players with claims?

Town unless and until/if actions and claims do not align with motives or statements, for the most part.

Or if the lynchpool has multiple town in it, which would be shocking because I don't know how 3+ people in that pool can possibly be town based off gameplay.

{Sky/HWS/Profii/Xyzzy/A50}

I've stated very clearly of the reasons I've suspected each, and I've debated each of them to be town at one point or another.

But I can't dismiss the cases I've made because I haven't seen people cultivate big arguments for a specific read here like I have. I've evaluated other people's thoughts toward my assertions

{MOI/Rask/TW}

and even

{HWS/A50/Sky}

as well, but nothing has given me 100% clarity.

And so, I think it's optimal to take claims off face-value... it's D2 in a large.

What? How can you have no opinions on players outside the unclaimed players? Don't you think some of them have to be scum?

When I die don't let MOI endgame btw

[Ausuka]

people seem v content to lynch them and they've seemed genuine recently. this really doesn't feel like a lynch on scum at all. Also like I know someone said it's optimal to just say "I was town" in twilight but like I think I rarely see that?

Hmmm I kinda feel it to an extent my main problem is I feel like their genuine posts have been like...... genuine prodges not genuine game advancing stances I kinda don't feel "GOTCHA" with the wagon on them but it feels reasonably righteous and if it DOES flip town I kinda feel like there's some spicy vca once a couple of {profii, Hot Water Service, skygazer} have flipped

can you help me flip HWS then?

i don't see why mafia continue to not give much content when they're getting wagoned largely due to lack of game presence (there are points against them but I feel like it's obvious that they'd be in a much better position if they were more active.) It's not so rare for town to be disengaged.

[Ausuka]

I'm pretty sure literally one person (tw) has talked about the counterwagon thing since multiball was brought up and he's voting xyzzy. Not sure what this reaction is about. Tw if that's your reasoning why didn't you even hint at that when explaining your read on xyzzy to me?

[Ausuka]

Yeah I'm right.

[Ausuka]

meh

VOTE: profii

[Ausuka]

Ugh

[Ausuka]

OK so I might be a bit spammy this twilight because I don't want to put effort into writing a post and then lose it all.

The most important thing to remember is that MOI is scum not just on role but on play too. His recent ISO is pretty scummy I think, and I've given my thoughts sorry about him.

[Ausuka]

OK so I might be a bit spammy this twilight because I don't want to put effort into writing a post and then lose it all.

The most important thing to remember is that MOI is scum not just on role but on play too. His recent ISO is pretty scummy I think, and I've given my thoughts about him.

Phoneposting is awful.

Anyway Andy slot is towny under Andrius. Nosferatu has been bad so far and I think it's pretty easy to see why. If he doesn't turn it around he's a decent lynch later assuming MOI doesn't flip scum.

Taly's town in a surface level way but please be wary of him. He is capable of being surface level obvtown as scum. If it's multiball the 3 scum thing is damning and the fact he refuses to talk about claimed players and thinks all the unclaimed players are scum is also fairly damning.

Profii and Chickadee are very likely just unmotivated town. A50 feels genuine and I don't think scum is there. If you want scum in unclaimed players probably vote in {HWS, Sky}

I'm going to look foolish if I survive after this I realise but the chances of that happening seem fairly low.

MOI the "ugh" comment was at the surprise hammer not the xyzzy lynch. Even if that wasn't the case saying that an "ugh" somehow means 100% confidence is laughable. Similar to the implication that an understanding of Normal rules is scum indicative, actually.

Oh and also, are you going to be voting Jingle too? And also Rask because he called the speculation good analysis? We must be very committed to this 'smokescreen' that doesn't really provide scum any benefit.

When I flip town kill MOI with prejudice. Don't WIFOM yourselves out of it. Please.

[Ausuka]

Duckling sorts himself probably.

Gamma slot still town too I think.

Oh yeah and btw Sky slot is probably only scum if it's multiball actually or somehow MOI is green. Otherwise HWS scum is much more likely.

[Ausuka]

How is that anything but a typing error LMFAO??? Why do I as scum say "You only lynch X if the person claiming an inno on X flips town." Why would anyone post that to look town? Everything you post is full of holes.

[Ausuka]

so how do fruit vendors work again? only give stuff to town or?

Town loyal fruit Vendor works like that, yes.

[Ausuka]

How is that anything but a typing error LMFAO??? Why do I as scum say "You only lynch X if the person claiming an inno on X flips town." Why would anyone post that to look town? Everything you post is full of holes.

Yup total typo. Scum and Town are sooooo close on keyboard and often autocorrect to each other.



I don’t know why you think what you are doing in twilight looks Town. Only you can explain that in the Dead thread or postgame.

What? I've already said I'm typing from phone. I meant to type does, not doesn't. Doesn't is on the top bar of my phone keyboard. I was typing quickly so didn't notice I clicked on the top bar. You're just making crap up at this point actually I probably shouldn't even talk to you.

[Ausuka]

Vengeful scum isn't normal.

Are people writing this off as TvT just because it's an argument? Please don't do that.

[Ausuka]

Please tell me more about my method of discrediting Nosferatu.

By the way @town: I do have experience with Nos and have read him correctly in NY 211 and police academy based on how his town vs scum games look. This so far is his scum game.

Pedit: Why is Magna town???

[Ausuka]

What? How can you have no opinions on players outside the unclaimed players?

I never said that I had no opinion.

I do have opinions, and they're fluctuating a lot.

Then how about you give me your opinion?

But I see no point in discussing the people who claimed because I have no way in hell to validate someone's claim as 100% conf.

And? Does this mean that their play can't be read into?

Nor do I know how that'd fit into a town or scum narrative for that person's alignment.

You don't need to fit the claim into your narrative! All I want to hear is your opinions on their play.

Discussing claimed players in a large on D2 - this dayphase proves - is mostly speculation AND associative discussion that literally has no clear answer or help at all for the town.

What??? How does this day phase prove anything like that? The VAST majority of the time has been spent discussing unclaimed players. There is scum outside of these players. You don't need to speculate about the claim of an unclaimed player. Like anyone else in the game who isn't clear, their PLAY can and should come under scrutiny.

Don't you think some of them have to be scum?

It's very likely, but I have my own suspects right now, and sorting the motives of how EACH player claimed their role and why is begging for both WIFOM and a great lack of clarity.

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know everyone who has claimed a power role had done things not at all related to being a power role.

Don't you think some of them have to be scum?

I want to sort players I know the least about, I want to flip players that I think are very possible partners to

Dram

, not an associative or speculated SvT to another living player right now.

Scum will most definitely be weeded out amongst claimed players soon.

It seems to me that claimed players are the players you know the least about. So why aren't you trying to sort them?

You want to flip players who are scum, yes, that's obvious. But why haven't you looked into the unclaimed players for scum rather than pushing people like xyzzy? And please don't say that you have and you discovered that the five unclaimed players other than you are the most likely scum candidates :/

And no they won't be resolved. Even ignoring the fact that there are far to many PR claims for scum to really kill them all... What about, say, Jingle? The claimed visitor? Why would scum resolve him? What about Brass the claimed activated BP? There are plenty of people you should be taking stances on even if I accept that you shouldn't try to read people who could get killed.

When I die don't let MOI endgame btw

At least 3 other people have shared a sentiment very similar to this... just with different names, and "don't lynch" as well.

And?

OK so I might be a bit spammy this twilight because I don't want to put effort into writing a post and then lose it all.

The most important thing to remember is that MOI is scum not just on role but on play too. His recent ISO is pretty scummy I think, and I've given my thoughts about him.

Taly's town in a surface level way but please be wary of him. He is capable of being surface level obvtown as scum. If it's multiball the 3 scum thing is damning and the fact he refuses to talk about claimed players and thinks all the unclaimed players are scum is also fairly damning.

1)

You're deliberately doubtcasting me by using my own potential as a scumplayer?

I've been doubtcasted AND mislynched in games as power-obvtown because people thought I was a deepwolf.
It's not 100%

"Taly's going to skate by as obvtown since he's OP as scum! Hehehe!"

There ARE towntells and scumtells in my play. You have played with me several times, and while I can't hold you to a specific approach on me, I don't feel good that you're stating I'm surface-level town while not trying to resolve your weariness of me.

It feels like you're intentionally generating uncertainty.

You're not obvtown and I don't think there's anything wrong with what I said at all!

I know there are towntells and scumtells in your play, as should be blatantly obvious to you.

The fact you're accusing me of not resolving my concerns about you is hilarious. I've tried. You literally refused to give an answer because apparently there's nothing more to claimed players than the claims themselves.

2) WE HAVE NO CONFIRMED WAY TO TELL THAT THIS IS MULTIBALL.

Based off thread information, unless you believe

TW

is an SK, I don't know why you're making an argument that my suspects are

"damning"

to my alignment...

Do you know something about the setup that I don't?

it's almost like I used the word "if"

3) READ MY READ PROGRESSION.

I have

NOT ONCE

said that

ALL

the people in

{Sky/HWS/profii/A50/xyzzy}

are scum, but I believe there's a strong argument for more than one person in this group to be scum.

Yes I obviously didn't mean you think literally all of them are scum. The point remains that it is consistently your suspect pool and you don't appear to have been sorting any of them as town.

4)

Where did you get the

"3 strong-scum read conviction"

from me? Have you read my cases and thoughts this dayphase?

I'll find it now!

[Ausuka]

I mean, 3 person scumteam isn't unusual for 17-18p.

And with the chance of an SK or 3p being here, I'm think 3p scum is MORE likely at the moment.

At the very least, I just think

Elbirn

and

Sky

have a huge associative argument together and with

Dram

Here it is! You also asked me what I thought of a 3 player dram/sky/HWS team.

[Ausuka]

Who should we lynch d3, xyzzy?

[Ausuka]

I would shoot HWS. Not like it matters I guess.

[Ausuka]

Please tell me more about my method of discrediting Nosferatu.

By the way @town: I do have experience with Nos and have read him correctly in NY 211 and police academy based on how his town vs scum games look. This so far is his scum game.

were you even in police academy

also you said he's just making stuff up which isn't really true

Yes, I was part of the sgba hydra. I never posted but I talked to tn about the game on discord and I was townreading you.

"i said pp and nos were town earlier and I stand by that. i do think porkens is scum but I'm not sure about that"
"well I tr nos and Ank so I'd say town motivated? not really scumreading Titus"
"i think I have an okay grasp on his meta and that this is town!nos. I correctly scumread him in our last game together."
"because I TR nos and everyone on his wagon other than a50"

Also yes he is making stuff up and that is clear. He literally called me scum for understanding how normal games work. MOI is far too good to do that as town.

[Ausuka]

I was visited by a player with the Loud modifier last night.

I gave fruit of course. How are we gonna deal with that? Maybe don't talk unless you have fruit.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: MOI

[Ausuka]

Better idea! Don't claim fruit until a few days in, no specific time. That way posting doesn't mean no fruit. Or maybe just claim when you come in if that's your thing. Your choice.

[Ausuka]

There is scum among the fruit vendors but the lack of kill doesn't really indicate that since the kill was saved.

99.99% sure that my visitor was a protective, and they shouldn't claim imo.

And it's your choice really! Just don't claim that you didn't receive fruit please. That makes it easier for scum to PoE and there's no real advantage I think.

[Ausuka]

The reason I have to think it was a protector is that I'm a limited cop and there was no scum nightkill. Also, they targeted Hitalt n1. Ididn't get any hint in the PM that it was loud.

[Ausuka]

The reason I have to think it was a protector is that I'm a limited cop and there was no scum nightkill. Also, they targeted Hitalt n1. Ididn't get any hint in the PM that it was protective.

Fixed.

[Ausuka]

Actually I have to make some sort of limit. If you got fruit, please claim before Wednesday East coast time (I think most players are in this timezone) or I'm lynching you.

[Ausuka]

is there any evidence that HitAlt was targeted n1 or

They claimed to be targeted by a loud action.

[Ausuka]

What do people think of HWS/profii/Sky rn?

[Ausuka]

Taly.

Keep in mind that the common usage of hider before the normal changes isn't the Normal version of hider. That's a Weak Hider. A normal Hider doesn't die when visiting scum.

[Ausuka]

I gots a peach.

^Confirming this. Brassherald is very likely town. It's possible that Mafia have a tracker or a watcher but meh I think he's just town.

[Ausuka]

I will say one thing, if scum were planning to kill ausuka as she has claiming, it thankfully makes her result more reliable, as she is probably less likely to get scum tracked if they have it if they were just planning on her being dead

Yeah true. I'll consider brass as cleared.

[Ausuka]

MagnaofIllusion
Skygazer
Jingle
Chickadee
HeWhoSwims
Taly
Nosferatu
Profii

If we're in singleball we should be looking at 3 scum in here. Nosferatu lynch option is unlocked upon MOI scumflip and Chickadee lynch option is unlocked upon Nosferatu scumflip. If we don't lynch MOI today we're looking at a {HWS, profii, Sky, Taly, Jingle} lynchpool. Which would you like the most, Rask?

[Ausuka]

I would like that personally.

[Ausuka]

MagnaofIllusion
Skygazer
Jingle
Chickadee
HeWhoSwims
Taly
Nosferatu
Profii

If we take out Chicka then I think I'm fine with this lynch pool. I really don't think scum-Chicka would claim vengeful if she was cleared by scum-Nos who was cleared by scum-MoI because the moment she's lynched they'd all go.

Yeah I suppose Chickadee is unlikely.

[Ausuka]

MagnaofIllusion
Skygazer
Jingle
Chickadee
HeWhoSwims
Taly
Nosferatu
Profii

If we're in singleball we should be looking at 3 scum in here. Nosferatu lynch option is unlocked upon MOI scumflip and Chickadee lynch option is unlocked upon Nosferatu scumflip. If we don't lynch MOI today we're looking at a {HWS, profii, Sky, Taly, Jingle} lynchpool. Which would you like the most, Rask?

why would you not target me or MoI?

Those are both awful targets. I learn nothing from a MOI guilty. An unlikely MOI inno would still be horrible because he would drive town into the ground and he's so scummy that I would doubt the inno.

You have the potential, however small, to be clear by n3, and you are supposedly an investigative who Mafia will probably want to kill at some point if you're town.

[Ausuka]

if you target me you could have gotten two guilties in one night tho

or does the fruit vendor not know if their action succeeded or not

Again, a guilty on MOI is irrelevant since I want him dead anyway. A guilty on you would be somewhat useful? But you're unlikely to endgame and will probably get lynched as is if you're scum, unlike Brass who would have a good chance to endgame. Also I didn't really even consider targeting someone who could potentially be cleared on a townflip no matter how unlikely that may be.

[Ausuka]

or does the fruit vendor not know if their action succeeded or not

I'm not explicitly told but it you get it you claim it and if you don't it's hard to guess who did get it so you don't claim it. If that makes sense.

[Ausuka]

Oh and the other fishy thing that’s making me consider things is that Ausuka targeted he person who initially suggested quite early on that the 2 vendors can be loyal/disloyal - opposite sides

No ones called that out and no ones callled out the random difference in xshot modifiers so idk, seems off

1685

I don't get the point of the speculation about modifiers. What conclusion can we reach from that? What do I, as scum, gain from clearing a player who speculated about a Mafia disloyal fruit vendor?

[Ausuka]

Loud protective explains everything and no, they don't need to claim, it's far better to let the Mafia guess. Sure they could become conftown but I think the long term benefit of having a silent protective overrules that.

[Ausuka]

I'm home!

What do I need to do w/ like, casing MOI? A lot of people seem to already be there and people aren't really defending him anymore? but at the same time the lynch doesn't appear to have much momentum. I'm willing to and able to make a case if that's something I have to do to get the lynch through.

[Ausuka]

I'm home!

What do I need to do w/ like, casing MOI? A lot of people seem to already be there and people aren't really defending him anymore? but at the same time the lynch doesn't appear to have much momentum. I'm willing to and able to make a case if that's something I have to do to get the lynch through.

Sit and wait to see how the counterwagon comes about maybe?

This assumes scum will be willing to outright defend MOI which I'm not sure about. It seems like a lot of people are sitting on the fence and scum will be among those players. It seems considerably more likely that scum are waiting to see if they

have

to bus MOI, and will go ahead if that's the case. But if they're going to counterwagon, it should be obvious who the target's going to be.

[Ausuka]

Anyway.

Town

Raskolnikov- Town by loyal fruit vend.
brassherald- Town by loyal fruit vend.
Gamma Emerald- Town by being nightkilled n1.
Jingle- Not a mechanical clear but pretty much the towniest slot outside that. Inferno's pushes on dram/MOI/Nos read as town- especially if one/both of the last two flip red. Additionally, the Visitor role fits with the theme of the game, which is newish Normal roles that didn't use to be Normal. Prime-Night, Loyal, Vengeful, Detective, non-weak Hider, Loud... do you see how Visitor fits this perfectly? And a Mafia Visitor in a town this stacked seems unlikely when Mafia probably already have a Fruit vendor.
Chickadee- There probably wasn't a MOI-Nos-Chick chain fake clear gambit. I hope there is but there probably isn't.

Townlean

Skygazer- This is conditional based on MOI flipping scum, which I see as likely. If MOI flips town this can be scum- I've made my reasoning earlier. As it is I don't think MOI and Sky crossbus like this and I think MOI when being townread did legitimately want to see Skygazer hanged. This is a slot you revisit when it's endgame and you're out of scum candidates but not before then please!
profii- Ridiculously apathetic to the point where I'm wondering if it's just scum trying to milk all the towncred out of it possible but otherwise I think this is a towny slot. He seemed genuine with his willingness to die earlier and he was part of the VT pool that got more major wagons- basically trying to emphasise the difference between HWS/Sky and A50/profii/xyzzy here. Don't really think he pushes Chickadee as scum either.

Neutral

the worst- this is a self-resolving slot and I don't really care to sort it.
Taly- I'm not going to write a lot about this slot because it's neutral. Basically he's put a lot of effort into the game and I appreciate that but at the same time I think his abnormal level of focus on the VT pool and refusal to talk about the claims on any level is suspicious.

Scumlean

HeWhoSwims- The worst player in the lynchpool. He hasn't really had any use for the entire game (sorry) and kind of had an awful d2. Like, he spent the entire day saying "oh there's no scum in {a51, profii, xyzzy}- which may very well have been true!- but he made

no effort at all

to stop town lynching these players. He sat back and watched the xyzzy lynch happen, and he was never truly opposing any lynches. Why?

Because he never cast a vote for the entirety of d2.

Nosferatu- This is a read I've already talked about. Basically he doesn't feel right. To understand where I'm coming from try to read these ISOs;

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go (Police Academy, town)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go (Clash of the Gods, town)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go (NY 211, scum)

Does anyone here see how this fits into Nos's scumplay? I guess it's fairly subtle. I think Mulch here describes it better than I can;

They’re way too worried about their appearance; they are more invested and too explanatory. They are tonally in their scum meta

He isn't overly explanatory in this game but he's reasonably so and he just feels too concerned with his own appearance.

But hey let's not just focus on meta because that road leads to town losses.

I think it's pro-scum to pretend you're town and twilight, and most scum i see do it if they're on-site for the hammer. I read xyxxy's twilight posts and they don't really seem like anything to flip a read over.

I would very much like for Nos to give me some links here

because this really looks like scum trying to ensure that today's mislynch goes through.

VOTE: xyzzy

L-1

claim and stuff

bad vote that doesn't really look bad because it's the token lynch for the day that seems inevitable? but it's bad anyway because it ensures the lynch will go through and Nos never really evaluates xyzzy.

i dont understand why scum would spec that multiball exists

it seems anti-wincon to introduce the idea that scum are scumhunting too

It is a by product of having too much knowledge. The most likely reason to way to be parsing Multiball given how N1 went down is to know that your scum team is undersized and be looking for the other scum.

It is a slip but happens often enough to be noted. Kinda like how Brass who as claimed BP makes total sense as a possible Multiball scum suspect but is nowhere to be seen in Ausuka’s last minute “thoughts”

idk about this but ausukas method of discrediting is concerning.

pedit: :T
profii said it was L-1 so i believed him :/

Please tell me more about my method of discrediting Nosferatu.

By the way @town: I do have experience with Nos and have read him correctly in NY 211 and police academy based on how his town vs scum games look. This so far is his scum game.

were you even in police academy

also you said he's just making stuff up which isn't really true

Can anyone read MOI's posts pushing me at EOD and explain how he wasn't making stuff up, with gems like "You said that you should lynch a player who would be clear in the scenario you were talking about, not because it was a typo, but because YOU'RE SCUM obviously"?

MagnaofIllusion
Skygazer
Jingle
Chickadee
HeWhoSwims
Taly
Nosferatu
Profii

If we're in singleball we should be looking at 3 scum in here. Nosferatu lynch option is unlocked upon MOI scumflip and Chickadee lynch option is unlocked upon Nosferatu scumflip. If we don't lynch MOI today we're looking at a {HWS, profii, Sky, Taly, Jingle} lynchpool. Which would you like the most, Rask?

why would you not target me or MoI?

Dislike the push that I should've targeted MOI.

Scum

MagnaOfIllusion- Basically MOI is scum because his views on the game are unrealistic and don't come from town. A good example of this would be his play at the end of d2, when he stops focusing on his A50 push and starts targeting me instead. In 2947 he

literally accuses me of being scum for understanding normal mechanics.

Another argument is that the presence of a Follower and an unknown role that can generate an uncertain clear with a Mafia (limited) Roleblocker means my role is OP somehow. I'm pretty sure almost everyone here knows this isn't the case. His vote on Xyzzy is scum-motivated; apparently scum defending a slot means it's scum now? I mean, I'm pretty sure scum defending a slot doesn't make it scum in any universe; even taking the generous view that it makes sense for MOI to lynch people based on weak associatives with slots that aren't close to confirmed scum, that doesn't make any sense. In 3035 he argues that me saying "ugh" is indicative of 100% confidence in town!xyzzy which is ??? But I think 3039 takes the cake for scum!MOI posts.

Phoneposting is awful ...

Just want to point out in Ausuka’s first paragraph she was “Nos is a good lynch later assuming MoI doesn’t flip scum”.

Let that logic sink in. I’m a Loyal Vendor. Nos via Andy is 100% confirmed when I am flippped Town. The only way you EVER lynch Nos even with terrible posting is if I flipped scum.

Ausuka isn’t approaching the game from a Town perspective but from a “What can I post that looks Town” perspective.

He's trying to argue that I as scum totally disregarded obvious mechanics in order to, uh, well I don't really know what the point that's trying to be made here is, over the really obvious answer of it just being a typo.

And then he says

How is that anything but a typing error LMFAO??? Why do I as scum say "You only lynch X if the person claiming an inno on X flips town." Why would anyone post that to look town? Everything you post is full of holes.

Yup total typo. Scum and Town are sooooo close on keyboard and often autocorrect to each other.



I don’t know why you think what you are doing in twilight looks Town. Only you can explain that in the Dead thread or postgame.

This isn't a town perspective. Town!MOI realizes that this stuff is NAI. Town!MOI doesn't argue that it's impossible to type "doesn't" instead of "does" by mistake.

oh and to top it off there's a nice little totally fake line at the end there too!

I gots a peach.

^Confirming this. Brassherald is very likely town. It's possible that Mafia have a tracker or a watcher but meh I think he's just town.

VOTE: Ausuka

The only way this vote is moving might (and only might) be to Skygazer who is pretty obvious scum.

Anyone who doesn't see that clearing Brass (who 0.00% of the playerbase thought was scum) as opposed to confirming I'm scum as she was whining about yesterday or clearing in the Pool of Death is 100% scum motivated play as opposed to game solving.

If you don't see that I can't help you. In which case go ahead and flip me today. It locks in Ausuka scum with my Town flip and minimizes the WIFOM damage her "clears" will do down the line (which right now is mostly only Rask IMO) and confirm both Nos and Chickadee as lock-Town.

don't forget this lovely post either where he argues that despite the fact that he's decided to lock me as scum based on claim I should waste an investigation on him,

AND

totally ignores the fact that

I am practically confirmed town due to the protective and the lack of a scum nightkill

because he's already backed his viewpoint into a corner.

Oh yeah and also don't forget that he

totally ignores the fact I made a case on Sky and was part of the push against her d2

because it doesn't fit his narrative of an Ausuka/Skygazer scumteam.

okay that should be everyone whee

[Ausuka]

the issue I see with that is that the earlier MOI flips the earlier we can confidently use his associations with players like Sky and Nos.

Why should I believe Sky and MOI are buddies? Because that seems to be what you're implying.

pedit: oh ok I can vote HWS.

@Jingle; I disagree tbh. I think mafia are a lot more likely to vaguely make "uhhh all the players who have a real chance of being mislynched today are town" without actually trying to save their townreads by wagoning their scumreads.

Why is no lynch favourable to HWS lynch?

[Ausuka]

I don't think tw would holster. I guess I would support a profii shot although I townlean him personally.

I think if mafia had a counter to my role they kill Gamma over me last night.

[Ausuka]

how am I a high information flip? and why on earth would you protect MOI???

like if mafia want to shoot MOI I see no reason to not just let them do it considering without the claim we'd be lynching him today.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: No Lynch

i'll trust you; however, we are on odds right now. This will take us to evens. So there needs to be a very good reason for you to do this.

They targeted gamma n1. they're almost always going to be a protective. and mafia loud tracker doesn't really make any sense I think? whereas loud doctor seems more elegant.

[Ausuka]

how am I a high information flip? and why on earth would you protect MOI???

Um... All I see is two similar investigatives in what appears to be a 1v1 with a doctor out there and two missing nightkills. If we can milk this for additional investigative results and make this game mechanically solveable, we do that.

Further, I haven't read the thread enough to have reads, so I don't really want to evaluate you/MoI. I'll get around to it at some point, but finding ways to break setups is really my forte, so I'm going to apply that to what I have read.

And, you're a high information flip because that means your fruit vends become solid information if town and your CC of MoI becomes solid information if town. If Gamma is shot, on the other hand, we as town get no solid information.

But I was the scum nightkill last night? So I should be seen as town already.

UNVOTE:

I'm going to take some time to evaluate this plan. I'm not sure if it could ever be worth giving scum a free kill.

[Ausuka]

Scum don't really care about confing me and Gamma as town because they're killing us anyway. Loud tracker just isn't something we're dealing with.

Who are we making scum shoot? Me and Gamma won't be lynched. MOI won't be shot. I fail to see the point?

[Ausuka]

I agree that from a purely setup spec position MOI leans town, I just think his play is scum.

VOTE: no lynch

Fine, let's go with this. I still don't think doc should be on MOI but it's their choice I suppose.

[Ausuka]

Ok sure Rask I'll listen to you.

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

[Ausuka]

Can you not lynch me I'm town just lazy

Who should we lynch instead?

[Ausuka]

The worst player in the lynchpool. He hasn't really had any use for the entire game (sorry) and kind of had an awful d2. Like, he spent the entire day saying "oh there's no scum in {a51, profii, xyzzy}- which may very well have been true!- but he made no effort at all to stop town lynching these players. He sat back and watched the xyzzy lynch happen, and he was never truly opposing any lynches. Why? Because he never cast a vote for the entirety of d2.

Aww

What could I have done to stop it? Like yeah I was against it and let it be known that I was suspicious of Sky etcetera but that alone isn't going to stop the majority of the game from lynching in that pool is it? And what's placing a vote going to change? Besides I was okay with a xyzzy lynch especially towards day's end.

I also encourage anyone curious enough to take a look at my games to investigate how many votes I use. Seriously, I'm just annoying in that aspect I guess, but I don't vote a lot less or more as scum/town.

You could have, like, voted other players who you were suspicious of and pushed them? A vote for Sky would have made the wagon more viable for sure. And while it's probably true that you don't vote much as town I have a hard time believing that you would choose not to vote for an entire dayphase that not only dragged out to deadline but went further due to all of the extensions

Separate post, sorry: What's this stuff with trackers and fruit? How could a scum tracker help in fakeclaiming fruit? Or is that not what was implied and am I reading wrong...

If scum tracked a loyal fruit vendor to scum, that scum could claim fruit, even though they didn't receive it really.

[Ausuka]

[L-4] Skygazer - Taly, Gamma Emerald, Ausuka, MagnaofIllusion

I think it would have made a big difference when this happened for example. When someone's at L-3 they become much more likely to get lynched than when they're at L-4 right?

[Ausuka]

I uh kinda believe that?

We are massclaiming if we have a modifier or not.

I obviously do because I am Loyal.

[Ausuka]

I uh kinda believe that?

We are massclaiming if we have a modifier or not.

I obviously do because I am Loyal.

wait no we're not doing that sorry i'm dumb ignore this ^

[Ausuka]

Still though that could be useful later? but I'm not sure who else to lynch other than HWS

[Ausuka]

as long as ppl agree that I'm town which I think they do? we have this pool upon a MOI townflip:

8. Skygazer
9. Jingle Inferno390
12. HeWhoSwims*
15. Taly davesaz
17. Profii

which is realistically enough to win the game. And obviously a scumflip is going to be good no matter what. So I think it's best to just flip MOI?

[Ausuka]

and even assuming worst case scenario that duckling kills green twice and people lynch me, that's 2 town down from that pool still. which means 3 scum left with 7-9 players left. even if TW is sk, we could still win that. And gamma still has detective powers too not to mention Nos would be town and have his mystery power.

VOTE: MOI

I feel like we're done at this point.

[Ausuka]

there's a small possibility brass is scum -> tw is BP sk and got hit and i got tracked, which Rask mentioned earlier. I feel like he's probably just town though.

[Ausuka]

I uh kinda believe that?

We are massclaiming if we have a modifier or not.

I obviously do because I am Loyal.

okay wait wait wait
Do you know what this is following? Theorizing on Loud doctor. This could possibly be scum. I think we should do this, get HWS to verify it, then lynch him. Thoughts?

After thinking about it further I think it's unnecessary and could help scum piece together the last of our town roles when they really don't need that information.

[Ausuka]

Raskol how do you feel about profii?

[Ausuka]

I was thinking he was quite towny actually? Like people were bringing this up a lot earlier but I'm not sure if profii is the kind of person to repeatedly say "I'll join x wagon" and never do it when x is his scumbuddy. People scumlean their buddies a lot but I'm not sure if they do it in this way to their RB? idk.

we can maybe make the assumption that mafia didn't bus their RB which would make this a lot easier? Idk I'm worried that I'm wrongly assuming that this game is solved and that someone widely townread is mafia.

Hunting scum tracker is a good idea unless that's Nosferatu in which case it becomes kinda a pointless endavour and risks outing more non-tracker PRs.

[Ausuka]

dramonic wagon was composed of:

brassherald (hops off for xyzzy later)
Hitalt -> Gamma Emerald (despite profii sring dram he opposes HA on this vote?) (hops off for xyzzy later) (returns after duckling vote)
Inferno -> Jingle
Taly
the worst
HWS (!)
Ausuka

after this claim occured and the wagon was dismantled.

rask perhaps strongest opposition but he's conftown.
Sky and Chick reacted in a meh way. Sky was talking about ha/flubber at this point.
MOI continues to push flubbernugget.

[Ausuka]

I just thought it was something notable in there. I suppose we need to think about if mafia would vote up their RB. Like normally I wouldn't worry about this because scum distance and bus all the time in all sorts of wacky ways but Dram's role seems integral to the setup- was Jailkeeper supposed to be a claim that would let Dram live? Then how would they explain all of the roleblocked important town PRs?

[Ausuka]

Does anyone disagree that there should be at least one scum in {Skygazer, MOI}?

[Ausuka]

I think anyone who voted dram before the claim could be distancing.

I mean I get what you're saying considering that mafia do that all the time but like



Why would you out your RB when it confscums them as soon as they roleblock someone who needs to be roleblocked???

[Ausuka]

I feel like the most accurate way to describe profii's meta is to say he doesn't really have one.

HWS/Sky is actually possible? but I feel like they might need to be paired with a PR? idk. this is where my play becomes really weak because I am terrible at setup speculation but if anyone towny here is good at it you can walk my hand through it and I'll just sheep whatever you say

[Ausuka]

Actually the associatives for HWS/Sky are entirely one sided; that's not to say Sky's interactions with HWS can't come from scum and the bit where she called hws scum by POE and then jumped on someone for SRing him was mildly partner indicative? but otherwise she's been anti HWS pretty consistently and it leans me away from that team.

[Ausuka]

Uhhh I just ISO'd HWS and profii and their interactions are kind of awful????

Like they kinda soft defend each other the entire game and other than that Profii just doesn't talk about HWS. HWS defends profii fairly consistently.

[Ausuka]

I lean towards HWS/profii/MOI though if HWS and profii are a scumteam. Taly is kind of hardbus territory which I'm not considering yet. So unless we have HWS/profii/Sky or scum!Brass both of which would actually be pretty funny and also unlikely I think MOI would still have to be scum there.

[Ausuka]

Raskolnikov
Gamma Emerald
Chickadee
brassherald

Jingle
Taly

Skygazer
Nosferatu

T

h

e

w

o

r

s

t

profii
HeWhoSwims

MagnaofIllusion

This is kinda simplified but meh. Does anyone other than MOI have major problems with this?

[Ausuka]

Profii can you outline to me why you actually never voted for Dram?

This game is dead, let's change that

[Ausuka]

It's because the chances of Gamma being attacked are much higher than any other possibility to the point where I'm willing to clear him. Also the slot is town on play anyway really.

[Ausuka]

Imagine a few votes on MOI and HWS, Jingle no lynching and most people not voting and it'll be fairly close to reality.

[Ausuka]

Profii can you outline to me why you actually never voted for Dram?

This game is dead, let's change that

I really wanted to go on that wagon that I was keen on day 1. And as such, given all the others are now dead (I think) if we somehow move away from MoI today, I hope we go back on Sky as there must have been scum in that move and Skys the only one left now. (...I think)

Uhhh? That doesn't, really answer my question very well and I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say? You jumped between xyzzy and flubber but never to dramonic despite explicitly saying you would be willing to join that wagon.

I feel like 3357 is an obv deflection with a weak explanation followed by pushing on someone else who didn't vote for dram

I say we lynch profii tomorrow

Honestly I think I agree with this.

Raskolnikov
Gamma Emerald
Chickadee
brassherald

Jingle
Taly

Skygazer
Nosferatu

T

h

e

w

o

r

s

t

profii
HeWhoSwims

MagnaofIllusion

This is kinda simplified but meh. Does anyone other than MOI have major problems with this?

The colors you used for the worst hurt my eyes.

Then I guess I did my job

Without knowing what mafia PRs could be I think it's hard to calculate autowin from a town POV. If the mafia know it's autowin they'll probs just concede though right?

[Ausuka]

Idk I thought the other wagon might have made it over the line

By "the other wagon" what do you mean? Xyzzy? Flubber? When dram was being power wagoned did you really just think "oh I don't think this will Cross the Line" when pretty much the only obstacle to it doing so was the Jailkeeper claim?

[Ausuka]

We are talking about day 1 where the 2 end of day wagons were HitAlt and Flubber

I’ve said I wanted to vote at the rask wagoners, town went with flubber, who although didn’t vote - did posture, hence my vote

I also said I thought HitAlt was Boon, so random role allusions in the manner in which HitAlt was doing it, seemed towny so I wasn’t voting there


I then was on the xyzzy lynch, again in the Rask wagon

I’ve also said a few times I’d Lynch Sky but the wagon has never quite made it, but given where we are, I bet sky is the scum in the Rask deal.


Anyway. To specifically address your query, whilst dram seemed (well was) scummy, I felt more confident in the Rask thing so I stuck there. It never came down to something like Dram vs HitAlt where I would have easily gone Dram

tbh I don't really believe this. the Rask thing was one thing in the early game and you emphasised mutliple times that you'd be willing to jump on dram.

VOTE: profii

this is probably L-3.

[Ausuka]

Actually it's L-4