Mini 2127 - Fairly Special [Game Over]
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More like I expanded it to a 4-person bloc. No need to thank me.In post 26, mastina wrote:Purely because until EspressoPatronum ruined it, we were the only three slots to have posted.In post 20, eyestott wrote:Why are you including the hydra in this?
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Uhhh
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In post 40, Chronos wrote:No way a civilian thinks that much about his entrance and an rvs vote yada yada yeeeeee
Two things Re: 24.In post 48, Egix96 wrote:Nah, I think that 24 is clearly worse. I don't see why Patronum should be so concerned with (highlighted). To me it reads as scum not wanting to stick their foot in it.
VOTE: Patronum
1. I dislike hydras, so they're my go-to vote.
2. I played with Ank in TM20. I spent most of the game convinced she was scum, but I started believing her right before I died. I was concerned with #1 because I didn't want my default hydra vote to seem personal.
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Good to hear. Thanks!In post 53, Team STRQ wrote:You wouldn't offend me if you did dwIn post 24, EspressoPatronum wrote:I was actually going to vote for the hydra, but I saw Ank's profile pic in there + didn't want her to think I have a vendetta against her from TM20.
I picked BSG bcz I don't know what it stands for.
-Summer
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@Cronos - What do you think of Egix's entrance (48)?
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And 3 pages isn't even bad for a mini. ~50 posts in about 10 hours.
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Ahhh, I think I see the issue here. My hydra votesIn post 68, Chronos wrote:Not feeling anything about it. Nothing sways me one way or the other. Why, did you think it was weird?
I'm having quite the trouble wrapping my head around why you would feel compelled to ignore STRQ's hydra just because you had past experience with them and were wrong on one head of the hydra. Ok, well, this isn't really the issue, but more so why you had a reasoning for not voting them, in....RVS
are not
rvs, they're policy votes. I intentionally vote hydras because I dislike playing with them + they make it hard to sort their respective slots. After choosing to not policy vote the hydra, I RVS voted BSG.
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Yes. I thought it was strange that Egix voted me for similar reasons as you but didn't acknowledge your post explaining your vote.In post 68, Chronos wrote:Not feeling anything about it. Nothing sways me one way or the other. Why, did you think it was weird?[...]
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VOTE: BPIn post 66, Titus wrote:Join me?In post 65, EspressoPatronum wrote:And 3 pages isn't even bad for a mini. ~50 posts in about 10 hours.
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Correct.In post 76, Team STRQ wrote:[...]
Clarification: This hydra has never crossed EspressoPatronum before.
Individually, I have played with Ank, Enter, and I'm 90% sure I've played with the DVA avatar. I don't think I've played with the toucan avatar.
Thanks for the tips!If anyone has trouble reading this hydra, just try to solve one of us at least.
We're all 4 different players but we like developing our dynamics together, and while we're definitely not too immune or conscious of hydra dissonance, we're capable of gamesolving.
[...]
-Tai
Also, I appreciate the effort you guys are taking to clarify which head is talking.
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Just out of curiosity, what mini theme?In post 82, Team STRQ wrote:EP I played with you on an alt in a mini theme ages ago but I don't remember your play that wells. If you remember DVa avatar then that would be from TM I guess but I kinda don't count that
-Q
Did you play in Mainstream Mafia 2? I only remember seeing the DVA avatar in the post-game chat.
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But we're just warming up. Why lurk now?In post 80, Chronos wrote:I no longer think EP’s scum, I tried to gauge out reactions as much as I could.
I do have some other scum reads though that I plan to keep for myself and will probably lurk for quite a bit and observe from afar.
I'm also interested to hear your response to Tai's question re: your interpretation of mastina's opening post. Do you think it was towny?
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Ahh kk, that was a fun one. I was a friendly neighbourizer!In post 84, Team STRQ wrote:Pokemon [ruby? sapphire? something] mafia, I was detective pikachu iircIn post 83, EspressoPatronum wrote:Just out of curiosity, what mini theme?
-Q
Looking forward to playing with you again.
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What's your answer to STQR's question though?In post 89, Chronos wrote:They had no thought as in you, not mastina.
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@Chronos That's too defensive for my tastes.
When you were pushing me for my BSG vote reasoning, I worked with you to explain everything. By my reading, STQR was asking you to do something similar in explaining your reasoning. Instead of working through the questions, you got evasive and went on the attack.
I also dislike the timing of your intent to lurk, and you either missed or ignored my question at 86
VOTE: Chronos
When you were pushing me for my BSG vote reasoning, I worked with you to explain everything. By my reading, STQR was asking you to do something similar in explaining your reasoning. Instead of working through the questions, you got evasive and went on the attack.
I also dislike the timing of your intent to lurk, and you either missed or ignored my question at 86
VOTE: Chronos
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And while I'm thinking about it:
What specific reactions did you gauge?In post 80, Chronos wrote:I no longer think EP’s scum,I tried to gauge out reactions as much as I could.
[...]
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No prob. Happy to pick up with things tomorrow.In post 97, Chronos wrote:It’s 12:30 AM. I am replying to this to remind myself to make a timeline of the events and stuff.In post 94, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Chronos That's too defensive for my tastes.
When you were pushing me for my BSG vote reasoning, I worked with you to explain everything. By my reading, STQR was asking you to do something similar in explaining your reasoning. Instead of working through the questions, you got evasive and went on the attack.
I also dislike the timing of your intent to lurk, and you either missed or ignored my question at 86
VOTE: Chronos
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Do you disagree with my reasons for voting Chronos?In post 105, Titus wrote:[...]
It wasn't RVS. BP was scummy in that he hated volume but he didn't vote anyone making the problem. EP agreed.
Immediately thereafter, he picks a fight with Chronos so he has an excuse to move his vote.
That makes me suspect partners.
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What, specifically, of the below post (or my posts surrounding it) do you find in bad faith?In post 118, Titus wrote:Yes, and I don't see how they're in good faith.In post 117, EspressoPatronum wrote:Do you disagree with my reasons for voting Chronos?In post 105, Titus wrote:[...]
It wasn't RVS. BP was scummy in that he hated volume but he didn't vote anyone making the problem. EP agreed.
Immediately thereafter, he picks a fight with Chronos so he has an excuse to move his vote.
That makes me suspect partners.
I can imagine where you're coming from with my stuff on lurkers in #2, as I find that a consistently touchy subject for some.In post 94, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Chronos That's too defensive for my tastes.
#1*
When you were pushing me for my BSG vote reasoning, I worked with you to explain everything. By my reading, STQR was asking you to do something similar in explaining your reasoning. Instead of working through the questions, you got evasive and went on the attack.
#2*
I also dislike the timing of your intent to lurk, and you either missed or ignored my question at 86
VOTE: Chronos
[*EP note - paragraphs numbered for clarity]
For #1 though, I genuinely can't see why you would (a) disagree with my reason, and (b) think that is in bad faith. Can you spell it out for me?
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I completely agree with the first half of this.In post 217, Chronos wrote: [....]
Egix96-
Ok, upon a re-view, this looks like a solid slot for scum contenders. Their first vote is actually horrendous. It creates a dichotomy between me and EP, calling both our votes bad.
My gripe with this sentence :
Is that, it's kind of goofy thought process. A wolf, if they were afraid, would most likely not even mention it. I have trouble parsing this as a legit town PoV, if you think they are afraid of a certain push on a slot, wouldn't you think they would just...not do it?In post 48, Egix96 wrote:Nah, I think that 24 is clearly worse.In post 41, eyestott wrote:In post 39, Chronos wrote:VOTE: EspressoPatronumIn post 24, EspressoPatronum wrote:I was actually going to vote for the hydra, but I saw Ank's profile pic in there +didn't want her to think I have a vendetta against her from TM20.
I picked BSG bcz I don't know what it stands for.Not a fan of that entrance. VOTE: ChronosIn post 40, Chronos wrote:No way a civilian thinks that much about his entrance and an rvs vote yada yada yeeeeeeI don't see why Patronum should be so concerned with (highlighted). To me it reads as scum not wanting to stick their foot in it.
VOTE: Patronum
His #136 is mostly done to refute my argument for town reading Adorable, but he brings nothing of value to the table.
I actually don't buy this, at all. In what world does Egix think, from a town!PoV, that a wolf would turn on the person that they town read? What was so suspicious about it? Eyestott didn't even like, call alimdia out or anything, so why would you find it strange that alimdia started scum leaning eyestott, someone that was town reading alimdia?In post 215, Egix96 wrote:I just found it strange that Alim happened to start suspecting the same person who asked him to give a read.
A lot of Egix's thoughts don't really make much sense from a town PoV, I feel as though this would be a go-to slot for a cfd or something like that. There's no progression, the reads are mostly made to reflect a certain action that devoid of context is scummy, but there isn't a natural, flowing progression that reaches that spot.
Also, he fits the archetype of scum lurker, they feel as though they need to regain high ground in the thread and stand out, which is what these votes and suspicions are doing. A town lurker would take their time analysing everything, whereas, a scum lurker only has an interest of looking good when coming back to the thread, looking like they're actively contributing despite being gone, because they are thinking they'd look really bad if they've done no hunting or anything.
Definitely a solid vote.
VOTE: Egix
Regarding the second half. Is your meta/archetype read based on this game alone, or have you played other games with Egix?
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Here's where I'm at rn.
Town
Alimdia
Mastina*
Townlean
Chronos
Adorable
STRQ**
Eyestott
Null (no order)
BP
BSG
Rabid Schauzer Clover Ebi
Shadowlesscloud
Scum
Titus
Egix
*But I'm still a little confused with the mod's *dancing in the night* thing from earlier. If that's role-based info, I'd drop mastina down to around null. If that's just TL chiming into the convo, then I'd keep her at town.
**Really liking Tai's content. Q seems townlean. Summer is more null. Raven is nullscum, but I'm pretty sure that's due to a bias on tone dropping him lower.
Happy to discuss reads when I'm back in later.
Town
Alimdia
Mastina*
Townlean
Chronos
Adorable
STRQ**
Eyestott
Null (no order)
BP
BSG
Rabid Schauzer Clover Ebi
Shadowlesscloud
Scum
Titus
Egix
*But I'm still a little confused with the mod's *dancing in the night* thing from earlier. If that's role-based info, I'd drop mastina down to around null. If that's just TL chiming into the convo, then I'd keep her at town.
**Really liking Tai's content. Q seems townlean. Summer is more null. Raven is nullscum, but I'm pretty sure that's due to a bias on tone dropping him lower.
Happy to discuss reads when I'm back in later.
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Then your best efforts haven't been good enough + you need to try harder. If people have to plead with you to treat others respectfully in a social game, you're doing something wrong.In post 250, Team STRQ wrote:Adorable has already failed to interpret several of our posts in their intended light despite my best efforts to avoid such a situation. Any resulting agony is the result of her own representation.In post 245, EspressoPatronum wrote:Small favour to ask of the Raven head before it becomes an issue. Can you pay more attention to your tone?
Adorable's alignment and/or play is not an excuse to treat her poorly.
-Raven
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Much appreciated. I have to go now, but I'll fully respond to your above question later.In post 254, Team STRQ wrote:Edited for better phrasing to prevent further misunderstandingIn post 251, Team STRQ wrote:Egix's post is very obviously not targeting Chronos' post for attention
-Raven
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Noted. Thanks.In post 279, Chronos wrote:The archetype read is data collected over a large number of games, Egix fits the mindset of a scum lurker. I may or may not have played games with Egix, but that isn't really a factor that I'm taking into account much.In post 246, EspressoPatronum wrote:Regarding the second half. Is your meta/archetype read based on this game alone, or have you played other games with Egix?
I'm doing what is called mindset analysis, mostly how town players think as opposed to scum players, on the premise that town don't have TMI and scum do.
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I mean, it's pretty hard not to have a vote that looks OMGUSy vote when over half the playerlist has at least a light scimread on me. I will reiterate the reasons for my votes below.In post 306, Titus wrote:EP, why do you just float on various forms of OMGUS? First Chronos now Egix.
I would like to note at the outset that your "question" here is really more of an attack, but I'll answer it anyway.
In addition, you didn't answer my questions to you in 120.
Chronos
My early interactions with Chronos were more reactionary to explain why I didn't vote STRQ. By 80, Chronos expressed that she no longer thought I was scum.
I didn't like 92 because she dodged STRQ's question, and I didn't like 80 because she announced her intent to lurk.
While I did not find 122 convincing of scum!STRQ, it helped answer a lot of my doubts on Chronos. She's now one of my townreads, and I found a lot of 217 to be insightful. That leads me to Egix.In post 94, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Chronos That's too defensive for my tastes.
When you were pushing me for my BSG vote reasoning, I worked with you to explain everything. By my reading, STQR was asking you to do something similar in explaining your reasoning. Instead of working through the questions, you got evasive and went on the attack.
I also dislike the timing of your intent to lurk, and you either missed or ignored my question at 86
VOTE: Chronos
Egix
I stated my dislike of Egix's vote on me at 70. After reading 217, I agreed with Chronos that Egix's reasons was sus.
See below.
As Chronos notes in 217, it doesn't make sense to assume that my answer in 24 was 'scum not wanting to "stick [my] foot in it." I figured my answer would garner some heat, but I chose to answer thruthfully anyway.In post 48, Egix96 wrote:Nah, I think that 24 is clearly worse. I don't see why Patronum should be so concerned with (highlighted). To me it reads as scum not wanting to stick their foot in it.In post 41, eyestott wrote:In post 39, Chronos wrote:VOTE: EspressoPatronumIn post 24, EspressoPatronum wrote:I was actually going to vote for the hydra, but I saw Ank's profile pic in there +didn't want her to think I have a vendetta against her from TM20.
I picked BSG bcz I don't know what it stands for.Not a fan of that entrance. VOTE: ChronosIn post 40, Chronos wrote:No way a civilian thinks that much about his entrance and an rvs vote yada yada yeeeeee
VOTE: Patronum
Scum trying to avoid conflict would have just made up an excuse about the BSG vote and not mention STRQ at all.
Assuming you've made it to the end, can you take a look at 120 for me?
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Yeah, I think you're right. The eagle avatar matches Enter's.In post 322, gobbledygook wrote:[...]If Raven was Enter, the tone makes so much sense. Enter was Miss Lynch from Mainstream Mafia II.In post 245, EspressoPatronum wrote:Small favour to ask of the Raven head before it becomes an issue. Can you pay more attention to your tone?
Adorable's alignment and/or play is not an excuse to treat her poorly.
ali's comments at 222. When you compare my interactions with Chronos vs BP (or lacktherof re: the latter), Titus' strong scumread of me doesn't seem in good faith. I've added some of her progression on me below. Also check out my ISO and interactions with Chronos around posts 80-100ish, which are the reasons for my vote swap.EP, why did you scumread Titus here? You had not publicly posted an opinion or really announced suspicion of Titus when you posted this list.
Spoiler:
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@gobble - my dislike for hydras developed in the william tatney game. Post 118 of that game is where I decided it.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
Regarding the specific games you mentioned:
I didn't realize they were hydras until well after RVS. I don't think I ever mentioned a hydra in MM2. In CoaLITion, I talk about my dislike for hydras in post 138 in
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
Regarding the specific games you mentioned:
I didn't realize they were hydras until well after RVS. I don't think I ever mentioned a hydra in MM2. In CoaLITion, I talk about my dislike for hydras in post 138 in
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
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Good point.In post 333, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:I hadn't done a damn thing, and still haven't. Doubtful you had a read on me, and more doubtful that that vote (which was basically a prodge, but adding to a wagon because wagons are good) changed anything in your mind. That post was fake analysis.In post 330, Titus wrote:Gets prodded, moves vote to town
Consider my RS read weakened significantly.
@Titus - can you give us a complete reads list?
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How so?In post 338, gobbledygook wrote:---In post 336, EspressoPatronum wrote:@gobble - my dislike for hydras developed in the william tatney game. Post 118 of that game is where I decided it.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
Regarding the specific games you mentioned:
I didn't realize they were hydras until well after RVS. I don't think I ever mentioned a hydra in MM2. In CoaLITion, I talk about my dislike for hydras in post 138 in
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
Those don't really seem to support the position you took in this game.
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Ahh, I see. I could have sworn I've done a hydra policy vote, but I can't find one in any of my other games either.In post 341, gobbledygook wrote:Spoiler:
---
I am specifically referring to the fact that you vote hydrae based on policy. Those two posts from those other games do not support your contention that you vote them based on policy when it seems like you actually have not yet voted a hydra based on policy.
Perhaps it would be better to say that I frequently consider voting hydras based on policy. I don't like playing with them and try to avoid games with them when possible.
I'd point to this game as an example, but I didn't vote STRQ here either, lol. I'll put it in the list of 'cases where EP has voiced dislike for hydras.'
-----
At the end of the day, ask yourself this -- what does scum!EP gain from getting into this mess about my first vote? I could have just gave a lame rvs explanation for BSG without any extra reasons.
You
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You're right about the second part. I didn't give it much thought. My whole point in saying the blue part above is that you know I would have given it more thought if I was trying to stay under the radar.In post 346, gobbledygook wrote:In post 344, EspressoPatronum wrote:At the end of the day, ask yourself this -- what does scum!EP gain from getting into this mess about my first vote? I could have just gave a lame rvs explanation for BSG without any extra reasons.
You specifically should know how careful I am when I'm concealing information bcz of our time in the MM2 mason group.This is the question I have been asking myself since Cronos brought it up. I have a couple of answers. My first answer is that you felt compelled to add something to your RVS vote. I don't know why you would feel compelled to add something to your RVS vote, let alone that.My second (and final) answer is that you did not think about it and just posted it and now you're backing away from it under the veil of WIFOM.
Yes it's WIFOMy, but you're uniquely suited in this game to make an informed guess on what I would/would not do.
If you think I'm scum, then I would be trying to conceal that I am scum.I do know this about you. However, at this point in the game, I would not know what information you are trying to conceal.
I gave very little explanation for any of the reads because:Why were you not more explicit with your reasoning for scumreading Titus? You only explained after I questioned why she appeared on your scumlist.
This is what we're doing now. You'll note that in my answer to you at 326 that I answered based on my read at the time of the list. I didn't include her evasiveness to my questions or her attacks masquerading as questions.
Are you asking about Titus because you also scumread her? Why not ask about the townreads, too?
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I think we're in deep enough here that whatever I say will be WIFOM one way or another.In post 348, gobbledygook wrote:True, but you would not not do something (read: you would do something) you thought concealed you as scum. It is possible that another explanation for the random comment about STRQ and policy is that you fully believed it to be your town meta to do such a thing. This is further supported by the fact that you admit you thought you policy voted a hydra in another game.In post 347, EspressoPatronum wrote:If you think I'm scum, then I would be trying to conceal that I am scum.
It is possible that you were aware of that meta and thought detracting from that meta needed an explanation. You just happened to be wrong about your own meta.In post 344, EspressoPatronum wrote:Ahh, I see. I could have sworn I've done a hydra policy vote, but I can't find one in any of my other games either.
I trust that whatever your read of me becomes later in the game, the hydra voting thing will be one of many reasons for said read.
Fair point. What do you think of Titus' reasoning?I have a This Game answer and a Not This Game answer to this question.In post 347, EspressoPatronum wrote:Are you asking about Titus because you also scumread her? Why not ask about the townreads, too?
This Game Answer: I think it is interesting that you both scumread one another.
And further, do you think my read of her questioning on me is accurate?
Re: the addendum -- I sometimes find it helpful to sort people based on their reasons for townreading (eg. Volpe's reason for townreading me in TM20). Your scumreads won't always be correct, so sometimes you can find town based on their town reads.Not This Game Answer: I think it is easier to find scum by looking at their scumhunting, not their townhunting.
Addendum to the Not This Game: Scum are going to be necessarily correct when they call townies town. Probing a scum's mind for correctly townreading a townie seems like an exercise fit for a Lovecraft punishment. [...]
That being said, I know from MM2 that your specialty is looking for scum first. It makes sense that you'd therefore focus on your suspect's reasons for their scumreads.
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Because I've asked her several questions and she hasn't responded to any. She won't engage with me, yet insists I am scum. Also this:In post 388, Churros wrote:Do you feel like she's not? Can you point out an example?In post 382, EspressoPatronum wrote:Titus... are you reading my posts?
Because in my case she was clearly not reading my posts but kind of pretending she is.
@Titus - I think you're scum but I'm still engaging with you. Can you do the same courtesy for me?In post 387, Titus wrote:Yes. I just don't care to do a read wall for lock scum.In post 382, EspressoPatronum wrote:Titus... are you reading my posts?
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Page 9 was what did it for meIn post 402, Chronos wrote:Can someone explain to me why Alimdia is being so universally town read?
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BlessIn post 406, gobbledygook wrote:I think I am warming up to an EP town read.
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Better yet.... why is her vote not on me?? She's been trying to stir up a wagon on me all day.In post 409, gobbledygook wrote:Titus, how is your vote still on me?
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You're already deep in a tunnel. Tunneling is confirmation bias, or tunnel vision, and your vote has nothing to do with it. See the link below:In post 421, Titus wrote:Because that would be a tunnel. I have all the evidence I need for EP scum (no one TRs you, but no one will vote you). I have the rest of the game to solve and the rest of the town won't work with me, there's only so much I can do. I'll take out the scummiest slots protecting you instead.In post 410, EspressoPatronum wrote:Better yet.... why is her vote not on me?? She's been trying to stir up a wagon on me all day.In post 409, gobbledygook wrote:Titus, how is your vote still on me?
In this case, that's Gobble in a landslide.
I have no interest in readwalling for you because there's two lockscum reads (EP and BP) , one probably scum read (Gobble), one backup read (RS) and the rest are town by PoE. Could I be wrong? Sure.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ation_Bias
Everything I do is confirming your misconception. You're actively resisting the only way I know how to get you out of that tunnel -- by engaging with you. So you're either town tunneling me hard or you're scum trying for a mislynch. In the event that I am wrong on the latter, I would like to engage with you to help correct the former.
If you insist on scumreading me this strongly without engaging in a good-faith dialogue, I ask that you at least do a blank-slate re-evaluation of me later.
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@Adorable
I had you as a townlean because I strongly disagree with Raven's methods. He did something similar to me (ie. A condescending push) when I was town and he was scum, so his push on you suggested your towniness to me.
Mastina, on the other hand, put forward a compelling case against you. She is the reason I am now willing to vote you.
If your wagon continues to grow, I highly suggest you ignore Titus' advice and claim. Egix has rightfully pointed out that claiming loses some of its usefulness in a role madness game, but I'm willing to wait for your claim until I make up my mind.
I had you as a townlean because I strongly disagree with Raven's methods. He did something similar to me (ie. A condescending push) when I was town and he was scum, so his push on you suggested your towniness to me.
Mastina, on the other hand, put forward a compelling case against you. She is the reason I am now willing to vote you.
If your wagon continues to grow, I highly suggest you ignore Titus' advice and claim. Egix has rightfully pointed out that claiming loses some of its usefulness in a role madness game, but I'm willing to wait for your claim until I make up my mind.
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Such as?In post 450, Titus wrote:Try something a bit less ancient history. So almost any game this year that finished.In post 447, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Titus - can you link me some of your town games? I tried to do a meta check, but you've been scum in every game I clicked, lol.
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The blatant mischaracterization is getting old.In post 449, Titus wrote:If anyone doubts this is scum, just read these interactions.In post 446, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Adorable
I had you as a townlean because I strongly disagree with Raven's methods. He did something similar to me (ie. A condescending push) when I was town and he was scum, so his push on you suggested your towniness to me.
Mastina, on the other hand, put forward a compelling case against you. She is the reason I am now willing to vote you.
If your wagon continues to grow, I highly suggest you ignore Titus' advice and claim. Egix has rightfully pointed out that claiming loses some of its usefulness in a role madness game, but I'm willing to wait for your claim until I make up my mind.
EP: I townread Adorable.
Also EP: Claim, then I'll vote you.
Also Also EP: Mastina's regurgitated case is suddenly compelling after the hydra (now Gobble) leaves the game.
Also Also Also EP: My mind isn't made up.
EP just wants Adorable's claim.
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In post 457, gobbledygook wrote:EspressoPatronum
Are you saying in 446 that Raven used a condescending push against you here?
In MM2 as Miss Lynch.In post 458, gobbledygook wrote:As in this game?
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Upon deeper consideration, a condescending push can come from town or scum, and that's probably Enter's general style.In post 460, gobbledygook wrote:Why would Enter’s habit there make Adorable town here? Do you think Enter only uses a condescending push against town?In post 459, EspressoPatronum wrote:In post 457, gobbledygook wrote:EspressoPatronum
Are you saying in 446 that Raven used a condescending push against you here?In MM2 as Miss Lynch.In post 458, gobbledygook wrote:As in this game?
At the time, however, it would be accurate to say my Adorable townlean was more a product of sympathy (to Adorable) or spite (to Enter).
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Reasons below. In addition to this, she's been painting my early Chronos vote as an excuse to move off my BP vote. A short glimpse of my ISO should make it clear that my vote on Chronos was sparked by (1) her interactions with STRQ at the time, and (2) her intent to lurk. I dislike lurkers and I frequently advocate for their lynch if town can't come to a consensus (note - @Gobble... I'mIn post 467, Sujimichi wrote:Can you point out how this summary is a mischaracterization of your posting?In post 452, EspressoPatronum wrote:The blatant mischaracterization is getting old.
sure
of this one. Lurkers came.up in MM2, CoaLITion, and I'm sure some others)Back to Titus' most recent post. She said:
I bolded the parts to which I will respond.In post 449, Titus wrote: If anyone doubts this is scum, just read these interactions.
EP: I townread Adorable.
Also EP: Claim, then I'll vote you.
Also Also EP: Mastina's regurgitated case is suddenly compelling after the hydra (now Gobble) leaves the game.
Also Also Also EP: My mind isn't made up.
EP just wants Adorable's claim.
"EP: I townread Adorable"
As you can see in the reads list, I townread Alimdia and Mastina. I have a townlean on the others.In post 249, EspressoPatronum wrote:Here's where I'm at rn.
Town
Alimdia
Mastina*
Townlean
Chronos
Adorable
STRQ**
Eyestott
[...]
While it is true that a townlean is effectively a light townread, Titus is painting it as though I suddenly dropped Adorable from the top of my list to the bottom.
Also EP: Claim, then I'll vote you.
Also Also Also EP: My mind isn't made up.
In post 408, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'm willing to swap to the Adorable wagon. I'll wait until after her claim before making it official.
408 and 446 should make it clear that my vote on Adorable depends on what her claim is. If I didn't care about Adorable's claim, I would have just voted her at 408.In post 446, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Adorable
[...]
If your wagon continues to grow, I highly suggest you ignore Titus' advice and claim. Egix has rightfully pointed out that claiming loses some of its usefulness in a role madness game, but I'm willing to wait for your claim until I make up my mind.
Titus' post makes it out like I was going to vote Adorable regardless of her claim but then I suddenly became unsure.
EP just wants Adorable's claim
I care about Adorable's claim insofar as it relates to the size of her wagon. At the time of posting 446, I believe Adorable was at L-3, with my vote as a possible L-2. That's why advised Adorable to claim "if [her] wagon continues to grow...."
If Titus was right and I just wanted Adorable's claim, it would have been easier for me to vote her to increase the pressure.
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Reads below. Why did 431 make you want a reads list?In post 461, Sujimichi wrote:What are your current reads?In post 431, EspressoPatronum wrote:[...]
Town
Alimdia
Gobble
Mastina*
Chronos
Townlean
Eyestott
Churros
Null
(no order)Suji
Rabid Schauzer
BP
Scumlean
Adorable
Scum
Egix
Titus
*Turns out the howling is role-related, but mastina has been open about it. I no longer think the howling is related to her being a WW.
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What are your thoughts in light of 481?In post 455, Rabid Schnauzer wrote: It's not really a mischaracterization. It's pretty accurate.
[...]
Do you agree or disagree, and why?
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Wagonomics suggest Egix is going for a fast lynch in D1. He's been late on all of the big wagons except STRQ's.
Egix joined on me for aforementioned shaky reasons. He doesn't change until the Adorable wagon picks up steam:In post 67, TemporalLich wrote:
In post 379, TemporalLich wrote:
While the VCA doesn't perfectly capture it, Egix joined the Adorable wagon to put it at L-2 (at 402). Gobble left the wagon shortly after.In post 448, TemporalLich wrote:
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I don't think the VCA suggests that at all. Why do you think it does?In post 492, Titus wrote:@EP, That's pointless unless you are suggesting that Gobble and Egix are partners.[...]
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Limiting the amount of information generated in D1 (or any day, really) is a net win for scum.In post 494, Titus wrote:Egix looking for a fast lynch otherwise is NAI and time wasting.In post 493, EspressoPatronum wrote:I don't think the VCA suggests that at all. Why do you think it does?In post 492, Titus wrote:@EP, That's pointless unless you are suggesting that Gobble and Egix are partners.[...]
You misinterpreted my question though. I'm asking why you think the VCA could suggest a Gobble + Egix pairing.
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1. The other answer is she's just scum. What's your meta read of her? Is she normally like this as town? With the exception of MM2, I don't think I've played with her.In post 511, gobbledygook wrote:[...]1. I am a little surprised at the intensity and severity of Titus's play thus far in the game. I do not think that there is much to Titus's reasoning (EP's vote from BP to Chronos). I feel like Titus might be stuck in a tunnel when it comes to you.In post 355, EspressoPatronum wrote:Fair point. What do you think of Titus' reasoning? And further, do you think my read of her questioning on me is accurate?
2. When I read this question, I drew a blank on what your read of her questioning meant. I looked through your iso and I still cannot explain what "[your] read of her questioning" is referring to. Can you link it?
2. I linked you the relevant posts in a spoiler below. In sum, I think her questions to me are actually just shade/attacks.
Mostly the genuineness of the read. I find it easier when I'm the subject of said townread, but it can sometimes work on others.What do you look for when analyzing an individual's reasons for a townread?In post 355, EspressoPatronum wrote:Re: the addendum -- I sometimes find it helpful to sort people based on their reasons for townreading (eg. Volpe's reason for townreading me in TM20). Your scumreads won't always be correct, so sometimes you can find town based on their town reads.
[...]
Since scum already know who is town, they sometimes oversell a townread without sufficient reasons.
What genre?Does anyone have any modern covers of older songs that I could listen to? I like listening to music when I do dives into games.
----
Re: Titus' questions/shade.
Spoiler:
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Thank you. I have some follow-up questions.In post 513, eyestott wrote:post 383, EspressoPatronum"]@eyestott -- what went into your decision for my flavour?Not a whole lot. I'm sorry your flavour is so bland, but I tried make sure that no two players flavour roles were more or less connected than any other pair.
1. Did you struggle with anyone else's flavour?
2. Regarding my flavour, why did you choose this specific flavour? I understand that you wanted to avoid overlap, but that doesn't actually answer how/why you chose mine.
3. What hint would you have given to me if your plan wasn't foiled?
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Before you reveal the information itself, can you first reveal the type of information you know? Eg. If you know roles of specific people, say "I know people's roles" before you actually say their roles.In post 521, eyestott wrote:I did promise I’d be completely honest. I am anIn post 520, alimdia wrote:aka is that the extent of your role.
Since you seem to be hinging on the reasoning that you must be town because your role is 'weak'informedrole flavourer. Im not sure whether the information is completely useless, or if revealing it may bring one of the anti town factions closer to victory somehow.
I would definitely prefer to not have to reveal it now, but if you ask me again, I will tell the truth.
No need to do so yet, but consider doing that before a full information reveal.
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If you do a quick ISO of me, Titus, and Adorable, you'll have most of the information necessary for current events.In post 529, pisskop wrote:How can I help by not reading today?
STRQ(now gobble) was a possibility earlier today, but STRQ had a ton of long posts. It'd be easier for you to just look at gobble's stuff for now.
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Why did her replacing change your feeling about the vote?In post 534, gobbledygook wrote:VOTE: Adorable
I feel better about this now that she has replaced out of the game.
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There's still a part of me that's worried she's a tunneling town because I'm struggling to see why scum!Titus comes at me so strongly for such weak reasons. My efforts at getting a hand on learning her meta were... rebuffed, to put it nicely.In post 546, Churros wrote:[...]
@Espresso why are you not voting her when from your POV she probably should be #1 suspect?[...]
I'll go onto Titus if the Adorable wagon loses steam. I'm just waiting for Adorable's claim before I decide on moving it.
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Thanks, TL. It's taking me at least 5 mins to get into games, and sometimes the site just doesn't load.TemporalLich wrote:Due to site issues, the deadline has been extended by a day.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-04-06 07:00:00) or when a lynch is reached.
I'm going to lock in a more useful vote in the event that the issues persists to EOD.
VOTE: Titus
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What exactly do you find compelling about the case?In post 615, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:Titus made a good case.In post 612, gobbledygook wrote:Why are you voting EP?
Also, what is your answer to 486?
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It feels like you didn't read the entirety of my 486 mischaracterization post. That or maybe you skimmed it.In post 634, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:Three things:In post 617, EspressoPatronum wrote:What exactly do you find compelling about the case?In post 615, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:Titus made a good case.In post 612, gobbledygook wrote:Why are you voting EP?
- Fence riding on Adorable
- Role fishing on adorable
- Calling Titus's observation of such as mischaracterizationYou seem to think that 408 and 446 make you look good. They don't. They look to me like scum setting up to make a vote down the line without committing to a pushAlso, what is your answer to 486?now.
"I'm willing to swap to the Adorable wagon. I'll wait until after her claim before making it official."
That's scummy af.
I wanted Adorable to claim if her wagon got larger. I asked the same of you before swapping, too. If Titus' wagon got bigger after my vote, I would have asked her to claim as well. Calling that role fishing is inaccurate.
408 and 446 are two of several examples to show how Titus' post mischaracterized me. I understand that my willingness to consolidate on wagons has been viewed as scummy before (eg. mainstream mafia II), but that's not what those posts were meant to address. 406 and 446 specifically show that I was asking Adorable to claim before I committed to lynching her. Titus made it seems like I changed my mind between 406 and 446, which is a mischaracterization.
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As an important note -- this is a scumgame with me as mafia andIn post 662, gobbledygook wrote:Extra extra read all about it!
Ep scum game hot off the presses!
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=82341
several
other scum factions. My scumhunting is genuine throughout most of the game.The true scumminess came out after Kerset dayvigged CSF + I thought I was the last scum remaining.
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Et tu, Brute?
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What part of recent events made you change your vote onto me?
Was it the conclusion of the Greatest Idea IX game?
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Agreed. I support people claiming, but I'd like to get the claims before hammering is a real threat. I'm not sure why the wagons dissolved so quickly at L-2.In post 669, mastina wrote:[...]
Though on that note.Just going to point out:In post 601, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'd like a claim before we get any closer to hammer range though.
We wagoned Adorable up to L-2, and then, we let the slot off the hook without claiming.
We wagoned Rabid up to L-2, and then, again, we are potentially risking letting the slot off the hook without claiming.
Later into the game. On D2, D3, D4.
Y'all are going to look back on that situation and go.
"Why the fuck didn't we force them to claim."
Given the setup, we'll probably just do a massclaim by the time we get to that D3/D4 point.
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Why do you think this?In post 692, mastina wrote:[...]This be a scumclaim.In post 689, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:FWIW I'm a 1X neighborizer. Since I'm town it's worthless per se, but I thought that I'd save it and at least be able to check if someone later claimed ascetic or hider or something.
Wouldn't scum in RS's shoes claim loyal neighbourizer to later fake a guilty? His plain neighbourizer claim seems more town imo.
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In post 708, Egix96 wrote:In a game like this it's practically a VT claim though.In post 695, EspressoPatronum wrote:Why do you think this?In post 692, mastina wrote:[...]This be a scumclaim.In post 689, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:FWIW I'm a 1X neighborizer. Since I'm town it's worthless per se, but I thought that I'd save it and at least be able to check if someone later claimed ascetic or hider or something.
Wouldn't scum in RS's shoes claim loyal neighbourizer to later fake a guilty? His plain neighbourizer claim seems more town imo.
Also, I'm not actually sure whether the "This" in mastna's post refers to Rabid's post, or pkop's.
"This" in 689 refers to mastina's post.In post 710, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:Yeah, rereading it I see what you mean.In post 708, Egix96 wrote: Also, I'm not actually sure whether the "This" in mastna's post refers to Rabid's post, or pkop's.
As a general rule, I try to respond to people with quotes unless my response can stand by itself in my ISO. It helps readers remember the context of my posts when/if they do an ISO of me later in the game.
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Ahh, I see. The 'this' in "this be a scumclaim."In post 714, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:We weren't talking about your this.
I believe mastina is talking about your neighbourizer claim, as her sentence follows immediately after the quote of your claim.
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Do you mean a 1-shot is doubled to 2-shot, or that an action taken on you can be repeated again in the same night on someone else?In post 711, gobbledygook wrote:I’m a duplicater. After targeting me a persons action is doubled
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@gobble any word about your role? We need an answer by EOD.
We can get a lot of value out of your role, but we need to know if it turns 1x into 2x or acts as a duplication for that night's action. In either case, you're essentially a free target for investigatives, docs, and other utility roles. We just need to make sure we're sending the right people to you (ie. That 1xs don't waste their ability on you).
We can get a lot of value out of your role, but we need to know if it turns 1x into 2x or acts as a duplication for that night's action. In either case, you're essentially a free target for investigatives, docs, and other utility roles. We just need to make sure we're sending the right people to you (ie. That 1xs don't waste their ability on you).
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I'm not a 1-shot role, butIn post 741, gobbledygook wrote:EP if you are one shot and you target me tonight then the next night you have two shots
everyone else with a 1-shot
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eyestott wrote:Fast
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That's what I would assume, too.In post 744, alimdia wrote:This doesn't make sense, wouldn't he have 1 shot because.. he used a shot?In post 741, gobbledygook wrote:EP if you are one shot and you target me tonight then the next night you have two shots
But maybe it gives two new uses? If it works like gobble implies in 741, it would presumably make a 2x into a 4x, into an 8x, etc...
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In post 756, TemporalLich wrote:Rabid Schnauzer has been lynched! He wasYou Know Nothing, John Sno-oh-oh-oh-oh, Town 1-Shot Neighborizer
Two questions forIn post 758, TemporalLich wrote:mastina has died during the night. She wasPlz Don't Scumread Me, I Swear I'm Town, Mastina!, Town Moonlight Dancer
[...]
Titus has been flavor revealed! Her flavor is Look At All Those Chickens.
eyestott
1. Am I correct that RS+mastina's flavour is the underlined portion of their flip?
2. What type of information do you know?
Thus far, I am struggling to see how any of your provided flavour is useful to us.
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Care to elaborate?In post 760, gobbledygook wrote:I apologize in advance.
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In post 770, gobbledygook wrote:Mastina scumread you [Suji] yesterday. I’m carrying on her wishes
VOTE: GobbleIn post 589, mastina wrote:Turkey + eyestott + Titus
Chronos + Churros + alimidia
Egix96
EspressoPatronum + Sujimichi
Rabid Schnauzer
Adorable/momo
BP/pisskop
Locktown, strong town, weak town, null, then scumreads.
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He spent the better part of yesterday on me, pisskop, and RS. Upon this day's start, he gave up on me and pisskop to push you in the name of mastina. My issue with this is twofold:In post 773, Sujimichi wrote:Why does this warrant a vote on gobbledygook?In post 771, EspressoPatronum wrote:In post 770, gobbledygook wrote:Mastina scumread you [Suji] yesterday. I’m carrying on her wishesVOTE: GobbleIn post 589, mastina wrote:Turkey + eyestott + Titus
Chronos + Churros + alimidia
Egix96
EspressoPatronum + Sujimichi
Rabid Schnauzer
Adorable/momo
BP/pisskop
Locktown, strong town, weak town, null, then scumreads.
1. Mastina was clear on her progression of your slot. She had you as a null by end of day (as we have demonstrated), so gobble's stated reasoning for voting you is false. It seems he is not masking a role-related reason for voting you, as he denied targeting you in 768.
2. I recall him being more transparent with his votes in past games, so his lack of transparency in voting me yesterday and you today stuck out. I see no legitimate reason for Gobble to naked vote you without providing reasons for swapping from pisskop or me. My guess is he was trying to get a quick vote out to test the waters on your before people started getting more active.
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I think it would be best to hear from Eyestott re: his information before voting Titus. We know Titus' flavour now, so hopefully Eyestott can help give that some meaning.In post 775, Churros wrote:I don't want to vote Titus yet though, I'm considering who to vote in [Titus, Momo, Pisskop]
Why momo?
@Suji - same to you. Why momo?
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@gobbleIn post 668, EspressoPatronum wrote:What part of recent events made you change your vote onto me?
Was it the conclusion of the Greatest Idea IX game?
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Thanks for this. Good point about #3. I was mostly looking to the later VCs to see if scum was resisting any wagons by maintaining the RS lynch, but the RS wagon as an alternative to a scum!Adorable/momo wagon makes sense.In post 782, Sujimichi wrote:A few reason:In post 778, EspressoPatronum wrote:Suji - same to you. Why momo?
I can expand on each point as necessary, however I am on mobile currently.
- Adorable’s contribution to the game and response to mastina’s tunnel on her slot.
- mastina’s read and case on Adorable
- The voting formation surrounding Adorable and Rabid Schnauzer (and you) and resulting reveal of Rabid Schnauzer.
- The tone of Momo’s posts
What do you make of the other VCs? Since I was a potential wagon yesterday, I am interested to see what information I can glean from the counterwagons. Assuming you were me and you were confirmed town, what information could you take from the VCs?
@Titus
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But why did you swap to me? Swapping off of RS due to stagnation explains why you swapped off of him, but not why you chose me.In post 785, gobbledygook wrote:No, it wasn’t. It was the fact that the game stagnated around RS lynch which seemed to indicate town. When no one moved to you, or anyone else, I think it’s scum indicative the other option is scum.In post 780, EspressoPatronum wrote:@gobbleIn post 668, EspressoPatronum wrote:What part of recent events made you change your vote onto me?
Was it the conclusion of the Greatest Idea IX game?
When you say 'other option,' are you referring to RS or me?
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@Gobble
of your gameplay thus far indicates that you felt Titus was trustworthy. Why did you change your mind + find her opinion on me sheep-worthy? For your convenience, I have included a selection of your posts regarding Titus.
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If Greatest Idea IX had no bearing on your vote on me, why did you post this shortly after voting me? What was your goal here?
Fair point here. The self-meta being wrong is weird + I have no better explanation than what I've stated earlier.In post 787, gobbledygook wrote:I chose you because there’s still something fishy to me about you. I can’t really get over the weird self meta you did that ended up being wrong lol.
Interesting. Given your 'behind the scenes' look at my gameplay via mason chat in MM2 + our TM20 chat, I am curious why this pinged you. Do you think my comment was wrong or misplaced? Can you expand on this, please?I also didn’t like how you later had a self meta comment directed at me. That felt pockety.
Why did you feel safe sheeping Titus.Plus Titus was on you so I felt safe sheeping her. Maybe this is what it is like to play against you without knowing your alignment
None
Spoiler: You evidently did not trust Titus
Who is the "other option" specifically? You said it was scum indicative of the "other wagon" ... did you think it was scum indicative of me that nobody joined my wagon, or scum indicative of RS that nobody joined my wagon?By other option I am saying as the day drew near the end, your wagon sat at 3 votes for a while and no one joined it. Meanwhile people were joining the RS wagon.
I still find your naked vote on Suji strange. Why not say these things when I asked you initially?I need to relook at it. My vote is probably not in the right place right now, but until Suji does things he did in Skyrim uPick im comfortable keeping it here and getting others to add it. Suji targeting Mastina with an invention or a fruit seems like a pocket attempt too.
Noted. Thank you.Churros remains my top townread.
Pisskop looks pretty bad too and is a good vote.
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If Greatest Idea IX had no bearing on your vote on me, why did you post this shortly after voting me? What was your goal here?
In post 662, gobbledygook wrote:Extra extra read all about it!
Ep scum game hot off the presses!
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=82341
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With my suspicion of Egix and gobble, Titus' earlier post is making a lot more sense now:
I'm happy to vote Egix today. If he flips scum, we should seriously consider gobble next.
If my recollection serves, I don't think gobble went onto Egix yesterday. This would further solidify the fact that Egix and gobble have been avoiding each other's wagons. It's possible he is now bussing Egix.In post 496, Titus wrote:Unless Gobble plus Egix is a team, then Egix targeting any wagon is just a playstyle diversion and OMGUS.In post 495, EspressoPatronum wrote:Limiting the amount of information generated in D1 (or any day, really) is a net win for scum.In post 494, Titus wrote:Egix looking for a fast lynch otherwise is NAI and time wasting.In post 493, EspressoPatronum wrote:I don't think the VCA suggests that at all. Why do you think it does?In post 492, Titus wrote:@EP, That's pointless unless you are suggesting that Gobble and Egix are partners.[...]
You misinterpreted my question though. I'm asking why you think the VCA could suggest a Gobble + Egix pairing.
I'm happy to vote Egix today. If he flips scum, we should seriously consider gobble next.
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Ahh I see. I didn't realize 704 was you telling us your informed information.In post 805, eyestott wrote:1: Yes, that is correct.In post 761, EspressoPatronum wrote:In post 756, TemporalLich wrote:Rabid Schnauzer has been lynched! He wasYou Know Nothing, John Sno-oh-oh-oh-oh, Town 1-Shot NeighborizerTwo questions forIn post 758, TemporalLich wrote:mastina has died during the night. She wasPlz Don't Scumread Me, I Swear I'm Town, Mastina!, Town Moonlight Dancer
[...]
Titus has been flavor revealed! Her flavor is Look At All Those Chickens.eyestott
1. Am I correct that RS+mastina's flavour is the underlined portion of their flip?
2. What type of information do you know?
Thus far, I am struggling to see how any of your provided flavour is useful to us.
2: I mentioned it yesterday. I had prior knowledge of the existence of the role that revealed Titus' role last night. I only knew the name of the role, not how it worked.
I guess I was expecting flavour to have more of an impact or some connection to the roles, so I was puzzled with the disconnect between role and flavour thus far.
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In post 832, gobbledygook wrote:I think your scumhunting today is more in line with what I’m used to seeing from you.In post 823, EspressoPatronum wrote:@gobble why do you now think I am town?
Do you agree with Momo’s wagon analysis on me? I think it makes little sense since one of the vote counts is me basically starting a wagon, going to another wagon I called scum early in the day, and then having to deadline lynch RS. I think it is really stretching the truth to fit a narrative. What do you think of Titus?[...]
My thoughts on momo's analysis
I agree with momo's analysis. You voted RS long before it was a deadline lynch (you voted RS, me, then deadlined RS), and you have previously stated that your swap to me was mostly a sheep of Titus rather than your own scumreading of me. You accuse momo of stretching the truth to fit the narrative, but I think you might be downplaying the truth to fit your own.
I somehow missed 321 earlier, but I would expect you to remember that MM2 opened with a governor vote, not a vote to lynch. If that is what cause your initial scumread of me, I am even more skeptical than I was before.
My thoughts on Titus
I am leaning towards town on Titus now. I had a lot of trouble yesterday reconciling Titus' push on me with a town playstyle, but upon further reflection, I had even more trouble reconciling her aggressive push with a scum playstyle. In addition, her play today seems more typical of a townie.
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I'm leaning on voting Egix.In post 834, Titus wrote:EP, what are your thoughts on the major wagons and comparing them to day 1. I need to check whether it's new names on mono as opposed to the Adorable wagon. I'm asking you because we're essentially tiebreakers.
Adorable/momo
The strange thing for me here was that I came around to scumreading Adorable, but I townread momo. I find myself agreeing with a lot of momo's reads and analysis. As well, I know we aren't supposed to read into replacing in/out, but the timing of Adorable's replacing out makes me think she was town. I'm trying not to give this much weight, but it's a thought in the back of my mind.
As a note - Egix was on Adorable/momo yesterday, but Suji is new to the wagon.
Egix
I dislike his votes yesterday (as mentioned previously), and I'm starting to see some Egix + gobble cooperation. Voting out Egix would allow me to vote out a scumread while also testing my Egix+gobble theory.
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+1.In post 829, Churros wrote:[...]Chronos why one-liners since getting widely town read?
@Chronos. What is your reasoning for voting Egix? What do you think of momo's analysis of gobble's votes?
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In post 838, gobbledygook wrote:I will say that if anyone targeted me last night they also targeted Egix.
My role is not role duplicater. I am actually a beam splitter. I crumbed it in my first post with the Pink Floyd music video.
Interesting, lol. I was wondering why you thought the duplicator had negative utility. I can see how a beam splitter could have negative utility.In post 839, gobbledygook wrote:I claimed the role duplicater so people would have a reason to target me.
Is this why you said:
In post 760, gobbledygook wrote:I apologize in advance.
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I'm not TRing him, but I recall pisskop's scum game being more active. He was quite involved as scum in Mainstream Mafia II. I don't think I've played any other games with him though.In post 847, Titus wrote:VOTE: pisskop
Is anyone TRing him at all? He's coasting, doing nothing which is exactly what his prior slot did.
I'm more inclined to vote Egix today. I will consider going with you on pisskop tomorrow if I'm wrong on Egix.
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Gobble is my only SR on it. Alimdia is one of my top town + Chronos used to be up there, too. Chronos is more null town now + is subject to change based on her future participation (or lacktherof).In post 858, Titus wrote:EP, why are you voting on a wagon you completely scumread everyone on?
To answer @Gobble's question, too... if I'm right about Egix + gobble, I know that gobble has no problem bussing a scum buddy. He did it to nsg in TM20 despite it being a white flag game.
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Answered above. Can you link me the pisskop games you're referring to?In post 854, gobbledygook wrote:pisskop was lurky the last two times I played with him as scum. Generally he is active though.In post 848, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'm not TRing him, but I recall pisskop's scum game being more active. He was quite involved as scum in Mainstream Mafia II. I don't think I've played any other games with him though.In post 847, Titus wrote:VOTE: pisskop
Is anyone TRing him at all? He's coasting, doing nothing which is exactly what his prior slot did.
I'm more inclined to vote Egix today. I will consider going with you on pisskop tomorrow if I'm wrong on Egix.
Why are you more comfortable with Egix despite the fact that I am on him and also was your biggest suspect coming into today?
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Those posts are separate. I agree with Titus that pisskop is coasting, but I was saying in 850 that Chronos is coasting.In post 863, alimdia wrote:In post 847, Titus wrote:VOTE: pisskop
Is anyone TRing him at all? He's coasting, doing nothing which is exactly what his prior slot did.In post 848, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'm not TRing him, but I recall pisskop's scum game being more active. He was quite involved as scum in Mainstream Mafia II. I don't think I've played any other games with him though.In post 847, Titus wrote:VOTE: pisskop
Is anyone TRing him at all? He's coasting, doing nothing which is exactly what his prior slot did.
I'm more inclined to vote Egix today. I will consider going with you on pisskop tomorrow if I'm wrong on Egix.HOw did pisskop become Chronos?In post 850, EspressoPatronum wrote:If Chronos continues to coast, we should look at her more closely tomorrow.
Your activity may be lower, but look at Chronos' activity today. She has 3 or 4 posts that are no more than a few words. I recall her being quiet towards the end of D1, too.Also, everyones coasting man, incl me lol
I don't think that makes her scum, but she certainly looks less towny as a result.
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Could you link me the relevant scum games you're talking about here? I'd like to look them over to see what you mean.In post 871, Churros wrote:I think I wasn't clear. When I saw scum!Egix play, I distinctly remember my scum radar going off on him in the first few pages. His posting seemed...very forced, and his whole nature political not necessarily in his play but also in his tone. It felt like a pseudo-intelectual trying to put up a show of being someone balanced and trustworthy. I don't necessarily town read the slot, I just don't think it's as bad as people are making it out to be.In post 831, gobbledygook wrote:Churros, what is it about today that makes you think Egix is town?
[...]
EP says that he's now town reading momo and votes Egix anyway.
[...]
What's wrong with me townreading momo and voting Egix?
I dunno, I just feel like town is more willing to change up their reads for little to no reasons. In addition to finding Titus' actions more likely town than scum, her dramatic shift on me today felt towny. Scum!Titus probably could have kept gunning for me, but she randomly decided to start working with me a bit today.In post 872, Churros wrote:I don't like EP going soft on Titus either. It looks more like scum flaking now that Titus is pushing him less than a real read.
Titus was on your ass 24/7 yesterday but only after she goes a bit silent on you, you realize that her aggressiveness can be town-indicative?
(by the way it's definitely not from my experience, scum!titus cases are always horseshit for me while town!Titus cases are more understandable, another reason I was SR the slot)
With all due respect I don't feel scum!Titus knows how to push her cases other than being loud about weird logic. At least it's what I saw from large theme heroes mafia and another game which I don't remember the name.
As above, can you link the Heroes Mafia game for me?
__________
One more question to you, though others can chime in too. What do you make of the general apathy for the wagons today? I can't make out if today has been slow due to game-related reasons or out-of-game reasons (ie. quarantining).
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Why did you want to out your hood?In post 920, Eve wrote:is it too late to out the neighourbood or was that already done alim?
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Oof.In post 931, alimdia wrote:In post 920, Eve wrote:is it too late to out the neighourbood or was that already done alim?In post 922, pisskop wrote:theres a hood?It's not a hood, its a masonry smh.In post 923, Eve wrote:well guess it's out there now
alim's been really frustrated in there recently from reading through - i kinda feel bad for him honestly. what did you guys do?
Thnx for outing tho :v
Did you crumb the masonry and/or establish some way of proving you were in a masonry if one of you died? I cant find anything on a skim of you and Suji. If you did, can you direct me to the posts(s)?
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In post 1000, Churros wrote:I actually like your shamelessness tbh
I've seen you be smarter than that as scum
VOTE: momo
I'm mulling over if we should leash your or not, but you definitely always shot tonight.
What's your N1 result?
I like these two posts.In post 1001, Churros wrote:You either come to momo or I lynch you because we're not doing Egix today.
____________
@pk you could track gobble tonight to get a double result
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How so?pisskop wrote:I mean, a redflip does kind of clear me
It's at least safe to say Egix/pk isn't S/S. I can't see a scumteam sitting back for so long while one scum is a leading wagon and the other is the counterwagon.
I like the idea of an EOD flash wagon bcz it gives scum less time to react to it. Fingers crossed it worked out!
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On another note, I'd also like to discuss the merits of eyestott fullclaiming everyone's flavour. Everyone could then confirm/deny that is their flavour. I'm struggling to see the point in the nightly flavour reveals, so maybe there's more than eyestott is letting on.
@gobble - who did you target last night?
@gobble - who did you target last night?
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Outing the other mason might buy the JOAT more time alive. It'd force scum to pick between them.In post 1079, Titus wrote:I would rather keep the other mason hidden. We need the joat to claim. Then tmo we can talk about mass claim. If the other mason dies, I'll be on board with massclaim.In post 1078, gobbledygook wrote:Yeah I would lynch pisskop probably without a massclaim, but I think massclaim is necessary
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It's not obvious to me.In post 1089, gobbledygook wrote:It is like so incredibly obvious who the mailer is and this is exactly the type of play they do lol
I have a good idea about the identity of the other mason, but nothing is standing our wrt to the mailer.
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Fair point. If we don't end up massclaiming and if the mason makes it far, we're leaving it up to the mason to win a counterclaim scenario. I suppose they'll have to assess their chances there and plan accordingly.In post 1104, Titus wrote:Revealing the mason gives scum a roadmap to kill. A hidden mason in lylo or stopping their own mislynch is more valuable.In post 1101, EspressoPatronum wrote:Outing the other mason might buy the JOAT more time alive. It'd force scum to pick between them.In post 1079, Titus wrote:I would rather keep the other mason hidden. We need the joat to claim. Then tmo we can talk about mass claim. If the other mason dies, I'll be on board with massclaim.In post 1078, gobbledygook wrote:Yeah I would lynch pisskop probably without a massclaim, but I think massclaim is necessary
Hiding my last mason was something I did to great success in T v A. Scum just were literally out of mislynches because we coordinated.
I'd prefer the massclaim option for non-mason reasons though. The flavour provided eyestott has no apparent mechanical purpose, yet the flavour keeps getting publicly revealed every night. Knowing the roles left in the game could help us piece together the usefulness of the flavour.
My tinfoil theories are: (1) scum can't kill targets with revealed flavour, or maybe (2) there's a 3p here that can only target people if they know their target's flavour.
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Eyestott's entire role was to provide flavour + he also said he's informed about a flavour investigative. Not reading into flavour here means we must accept that eyestott and the investigative are effectively VTs.In post 1106, pisskop wrote:I wouldnt read too much into the flavor thing tbh. Given mastin's role and this apparent joat flavor seems to be a theme.
What do you mean by JOAT flavour?
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Emphasis onIn post 1107, pisskop wrote:Weve seen zero evidence of a 3p
tinfoil
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What would you say the theme around the flavour is?In post 1115, pisskop wrote:I mean, there's a theme around flavour, but I doubt it affect kills or etcIn post 1109, EspressoPatronum wrote:Eyestott's entire role was to provide flavour + he also said he's informed about a flavour investigative. Not reading into flavour here means we must accept that eyestott and the investigative are effectively VTs.In post 1106, pisskop wrote:I wouldnt read too much into the flavor thing tbh. Given mastin's role and this apparent joat flavor seems to be a theme.
What do you mean by JOAT flavour?
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Here's a wild idea:
Eyestott is a ROLE flavourer. What if he added flavour for each ROLE instead of each PERSON + he's been trying to figure out who has what flavour?!
I say we make eyestott fullclaim the flavour of each PERSON. He's done a few hints thus far, but not all of them have been targeted at the right person. I'll post an example below:
Eyestott is a ROLE flavourer. What if he added flavour for each ROLE instead of each PERSON + he's been trying to figure out who has what flavour?!
I say we make eyestott fullclaim the flavour of each PERSON. He's done a few hints thus far, but not all of them have been targeted at the right person. I'll post an example below:
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He sent this photo to STRQ/gobble, but we now know that this is Titus' flavour! If he was trying to convince STRQ/gobble of the flavour, why wouldn't he post something from 'Never Gonna Give You Up?'In post 270, eyestott wrote:I promise, all will be answered before the end of the day, so do please bear with me. I have a plan. Do you think you have any idea what I'm trying to do, Tai (or anyone in STRQ, or really anyone in general)? This is a very important question to me. If you do, don't actually say, please. Just need some confirmation.In post 259, Team STRQ wrote:Eyestott, I agree with the assessment that you've been present but not doing much at all. Why isn't this suspicious of you?
In the meantime, here is my favourite vine
Reads coming soon.
I'm almost certain he knows mine* and Egix's, but I'm not convinced he knows everyone else's.
*He gave me an accurate hint. It's possible that he threw out several different hints + I just caught the one relevant to me.
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Role not faction.In post 1201, pisskop wrote:then he would know who scum os beforehand and could easily serup beeak?
But who says he isn't scum?
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I await his full flavour claim matched with each person.In post 1203, pisskop wrote:his actions wrt voting dont support that, and he would have asked for a flavor claim
No need to speculate on what is/is not supported when his claim will prove or disprove the theory.
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Even if eyestott is town and knows the flavour of each role, we can use that information to confirm via the flavour reveals.
Hypo example:
Eyestott says the VT flavour is "look at all those chickens'
Titus claims VT
Titus' flavour matches her claim, confirming her role
All that depends on the
Hypo example:
Eyestott says the VT flavour is "look at all those chickens'
Titus claims VT
Titus' flavour matches her claim, confirming her role
All that depends on the
roles
and not the people
being flavoured, of course.- EspressoPatronum
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I'm sure he'll respond once he reads my posts.In post 1206, pisskop wrote:help me pressure him.
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He didn't. That was a hypothetical example (bolded and underlined above) to demonstrate how we can use the role flavourer as theorized.In post 1209, gobbledygook wrote:Where did Eyestott say the VT flavor mentions chickens?In post 1207, EspressoPatronum wrote:Even if eyestott is town and knows the flavour of each role, we can use that information to confirm via the flavour reveals.
Hypo example:
Eyestott says the VT flavour is "look at all those chickens'
Titus claims VT
Titus' flavour matches her claim, confirming her role
All that depends on therolesand not thepeoplebeing flavoured, of course.
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What are you even talking about?? Did you read my posts?In post 1210, Titus wrote:VOTE: EP
I don't like his recent posting about claiming eyestott could be a scum rolecop. Looks like he's lynch fishing.
Gobble, who did you target?
I'm saying I don't think his role is what he says it is and I want him to claim to prove it. I don't think he's a scum rolecop -- I think he's a ROLE FLAVOURER (as I've stated several times in my last posts) that could be scum or town. If he's town, I want him to work with the investigative. If he's scum, we caught him in a lie and he can die next.
I am still set on a pk/gobble team. I want to find the third before I die.
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Like, I'm over here trying to make sense of how flavour might not be useless + Titus just shuts it down before even grappling with it. Come on.
If I wasn't so confident in you being a useful town role, I'd say that was scummy. Instead, I think you're just a tunneling town who doesn't want to talk mechanics.
If I wasn't so confident in you being a useful town role, I'd say that was scummy. Instead, I think you're just a tunneling town who doesn't want to talk mechanics.
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I think the third is in Eyestott/Egix/alim.In post 1214, Titus wrote:Unless you think eye is the third, why would scum fake a guilty on their own?
Who knows why scum would fake a guilty. I've seen crazier.
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This is true, but perhaps he has information about some but not all.In post 1215, gobbledygook wrote:I think its Pk, Alim, Egix?
pedit:
EP, you theory is fine and all, but eyestott literally gave mastina a flavor that has mastina's name in it, which I think debunks your theory
I want to hear his full claim regardless.
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Noted. Thanks!In post 1221, gobbledygook wrote:Oh, if Pisskop is town, then the group is Titus/Egix/Alim.In post 1217, gobbledygook wrote:VOTE: Pisskop
If this is town, eyestott was definitely setup. But the more I think about this game, I am thinking the guilty is real and its Alim + Egix
My read on eyestott depends a lot on whether he can prove his role.EP, what is your read on Eyestott? I am really hedging my group on the fact that his play is too scummy to be scum and that he would have played his role differently, but I am curious to see your read.
If he lied, I think it's more likely he's scum. If he told the truth, I think he's a glorified VT.
It might matter. Can you please claim your target and why?pedit:
Why does that matter? No seems to have targeted me so my target is irrelevant.
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Good to know. If we can somehow confirm your role today, I think we should.In post 1223, gobbledygook wrote:My target is technically confirmable, even if it may not seem like that. If I am right, I think one of Egix/EP targeted me.
Who did you target?
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Yes, but your inclusion in my list for the third scum was based off POE in light of the JOAT and mason claims. Unless you're a mason mailman, I see no reason to remove you from the POE yet. Do you disagree?In post 1257, alimdia wrote: [...]you realized I claimed mailman and I didn't send a mail to eyestott right?In post 1218, EspressoPatronum wrote:I think the third is in Eyestott/Egix/alim.In post 1214, Titus wrote:Unless you think eye is the third, why would scum fake a guilty on their own?
Who knows why scum would fake a guilty. I've seen crazier.
As good a time as any. What makes you say this?In post 1258, alimdia wrote:Is it a good time to mention that Eve is town?
Btw, are you actually in a hood with Eve?
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A reveal of two flavours will suffice then.In post 1262, eyestott wrote:I'm not comfortable with fully revealing everyone's flavour.
I'm not convinced that this information is useless, and I could be shooting the town in the foot by revealing their role flavour if there are other roles that have effects if flavour is known
Before the main wagon is lynched, I would like you to post their exact flavour. No more "watch out for John Snow" or mysterious clues, just their exact flavour.
In addition, pick one person who isn't me/Egix/gobble/Titus and post their exact flavour. The revealer can confirm that person's flavour tonight.
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In post 1273, gobbledygook wrote:My flavor is already revealed
Exactly, which is why I saidIn post 1274, gobbledygook wrote:As is titus
not
you or Titus. Eyestott's Avengers comment was directed at Egix + I know one of Eyestott's hints relates to me, so I'd rather him not pick in us two either.- EspressoPatronum
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Can you please just do like a 5 min meta dive on me. People consistently say this rolefishing line (or some variation) about me, but I'm always just trying to gain more information for the town. Mainstream Mafia II and Gay Mafia (TM 20) are two easy examples of this in my recent games.In post 1275, Titus wrote:EP here wanting more reveals. He rolefishes the mason, now this.In post 1272, EspressoPatronum wrote:A reveal of two flavours will suffice then.In post 1262, eyestott wrote:I'm not comfortable with fully revealing everyone's flavour.
I'm not convinced that this information is useless, and I could be shooting the town in the foot by revealing their role flavour if there are other roles that have effects if flavour is known
Before the main wagon is lynched, I would like you to post their exact flavour. No more "watch out for John Snow" or mysterious clues, just their exact flavour.
In addition, pick one person who isn't me/Egix/gobble/Titus and post their exact flavour. The revealer can confirm that person's flavour tonight.
Why can't I get support here?
I've been very transparent in wanting a mass claim today. Since that isn't going to happen, I at least want information to help solidify my flavour theory.
Do you disagree with my flavour theory? Why/why not? In addition, what do you make of flavour + how can we use it?
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Confirming my role.In post 1279, gobbledygook wrote:Alrighty. I’m just going to do this because this game is stalling.
Egix is the JoAT. Eve is the mason. Flavor revealer has to be EP.
I'm grasping at straws to see how I'm supposed to be useful here, but Titus and Eyestott aren't making it easy.
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No problem. Take as much time as you need! Wishing you and your family well.In post 1281, eyestott wrote:Huge family emergency, unsure how long this will take to resolve.
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I told you who is scum. It's pisskop and gobble. I don't know the third.In post 1278, Titus wrote:I am not helping you role fish. You being anti-town every game is irrelevant. It's not just anti-town here it's proscum. I don't do meta, not even five minute dives.In post 1277, EspressoPatronum wrote:Can you please just do like a 5 min meta dive on me. People consistently say this rolefishing line (or some variation) about me, but I'm always just trying to gain more information for the town. Mainstream Mafia II and Gay Mafia (TM 20) are two easy examples of this in my recent games.In post 1275, Titus wrote:EP here wanting more reveals. He rolefishes the mason, now this.In post 1272, EspressoPatronum wrote:A reveal of two flavours will suffice then.In post 1262, eyestott wrote:I'm not comfortable with fully revealing everyone's flavour.
I'm not convinced that this information is useless, and I could be shooting the town in the foot by revealing their role flavour if there are other roles that have effects if flavour is known
Before the main wagon is lynched, I would like you to post their exact flavour. No more "watch out for John Snow" or mysterious clues, just their exact flavour.
In addition, pick one person who isn't me/Egix/gobble/Titus and post their exact flavour. The revealer can confirm that person's flavour tonight.
Why can't I get support here?
I've been very transparent in wanting a mass claim today. Since that isn't going to happen, I at least want information to help solidify my flavour theory.
Do you disagree with my flavour theory? Why/why not? In addition, what do you make of flavour + how can we use it?
Stop rolefishing. Tell me who is scum.
Just because you don't understand the possible benefits of a reveal doesn't make you right, and shutting down the discussion also doesn't prove your point if you turn out to be right. You need to be clear with your reasoning + be open to other points of view.
Role madness games tend to have a mechanical solve in them once you get a mass claim. Gobble and I had a great mech solve in Mainstream Mafia II, and Pink Ball had a good one in the most recent Greatest Idea game.
We'd both be better off if you read my posts a little more carefully from now on.
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I figured. I wanted you to say before I revealed in case you tried saying you targeted someone else.In post 1287, gobbledygook wrote:EP, I targeted Titus last night.
———
Confirming EP as flavor revealer gives me pause because I really don’t know if both the flavourer and the revealer would be the same alignment and I’m townreading both.
Yeah, that's where I'm struggling. I don't see why eyestott and I are in the game if everything we know about flavour is true. I'm effectively a glorified VT who moves around at night.
If, however, there's more to flavour than eyestott has let on, I can actually put my role to use by coordinating with the group.
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I think you're right but hope you're not.In post 1291, gobbledygook wrote:This game feels like one of those vanillaless games that while true to the definition of being vanillaless doesn’t actually have that much power in it.
I agree and I think it's annoying, but I don't think it's scummy.Titus voting EP here makes like no sense in my mind given her insistence that Pisskop’s slot has been scum -all- game and also has a claimed guilty on it.
Btw, why did you target Titus last night?
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I can't do anything other than publicly reveal flavour, which is why I don't understand the purpose of my role.In post 1301, alimdia wrote:What can u do with the revealed flavour EP?
As to eyestott revealing people's flavour, I have included the relevant posts below. In sum, I think he doesn't actually know everyone's flavour but instead knows the flavour of roles + maybe 1 or two people.
At the very least, eyestott accurately revealing the exact flavour of everyone will prove to me that:
1) He was telling the truth, and
2) My role is useless.
Spoiler: relevant posts
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You said you weren't going to answer how you knew Eve was town, which is fine by me. My hood question was separate.In post 1305, alimdia wrote:Didn't I say I wasn't gonna answer that?
And I thought Eyescott knew mastina's flavor?
He might have known mastina's, but it seems he didn't know gobble's flavour. If I recall correctly, he only revealed Rabid's flavour AFTER Rabid claimed neighbourizer.
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Here's the sequencing mentioned earlier. RS claimed his role before eyestott revealed his flavour.
P-edit - thanks for clearing that up, alim. If you said you were in a hood together, I was going to ask why you targeted Eve for mail.
In post 689, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:Mastina is scum. She's either lying that she's intimately familiar with me, or lying that this is my scum game.
FWIW I'm a 1X neighborizer. Since I'm town it's worthless per se, but I thought that I'd save it and at least be able to check if someone later claimed ascetic or hider or something.
In post 749, eyestott wrote:To prove my role: Be prepared for Ygritte.
P-edit - thanks for clearing that up, alim. If you said you were in a hood together, I was going to ask why you targeted Eve for mail.
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And then there's this!
In post 600, eyestott wrote:@alimdia (and mono):. I have no idea what’s up with mastinas role. [...]I am the ROLE flavorer. My abilities are only to do with your role name
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This doesn't help prove my point because you already know my role now. You need to reveal someone's flavour who's role is still unknown to prove that you know the player's' flavour instead of the role flavour.In post 1325, eyestott wrote:EP, it seems like you’re the only one who wants to be outed, so here we go. Your flavour is “ “
I saw your hint to me earlier, but I don't know if you dropped several different hints and I just picked up on the " ".
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I agree with pk on this. This lynch feels important and people have information, but nobody wants to give enough information to help steer the lynch.In post 1335, eyestott wrote:Who’s doing the teeth pulling, pk?
- Egix just now confirmed the TARGETS but not the actions claimed by eyestott + the letter
- Eyestott won't reveal the full contents of the letter to protect the identity of the JoaT
- The JoaT hasn't revealed
- alim is a mailman who hasn't said what he sent
There's more information that people are holding, but the above is/may be relevant to the lynch.
Whether or not the holding of information today has been the correct play, trying to get said information definitely feels like pulling teeth.
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Right, but you still haven't said the contents of your letter (per the post below). It should be noted that your partial claim in 1124 was helpful, as you helped rule out the possibility of a redirect.In post 1340, alimdia wrote:[...]I said I didn't send a letter saying guilty. My receipent said they received my mail so...In post 1338, EspressoPatronum wrote:I agree with pk on this. This lynch feels important and people have information, but nobody wants to give enough information to help steer the lynch.In post 1335, eyestott wrote:Who’s doing the teeth pulling, pk?
- Egix just now confirmed the TARGETS but not the actions claimed by eyestott + the letter
- Eyestott won't reveal the full contents of the letter to protect the identity of the JoaT
- The JoaT hasn't revealed
- alim is a mailman who hasn't said what he sent
There's more information that people are holding, but the above is/may be relevant to the lynch.
Whether or not the holding of information today has been the correct play, trying to get said information definitely feels like pulling teeth.
[...]
We don't know whether the contents of the letter could influence the lynch today, which is why I added it to the list of things that are or
may be
relevant.In post 1124, alimdia wrote:I'm gonna do a partial claim, and redact some stuff because I don't want to give other info away 'freely'
I am an mailman. I sent a mail to Eve last night.The contents of the mail shall remain secret for now, but it definitely is NOT 'I'm a JOAT and I got a guilty on pisskop N1', so that rules out me being redirected to eyescott.
I did not send a mail to anyone else last night. Therefore, I'm struggling to understand how eyescott got a mail last night.
I also did not send mail on N1, Eve should understand why.
The conclusion is that the mailman is either scum or eyescott is just bs'ing the whole thing up.
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Good pointIn post 1343, Eve wrote:i think people not coming forward with more information is probably indicative that this lynch is fine and nothing more needs to be said
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Alternatively:In post 1356, Titus wrote:Given no one claimed the guilty, it screams Pisskop is being framed.
In post 1343, Eve wrote:i think people not coming forward with more information is probably indicative that this lynch is fine and nothing more needs to be said
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Just to be clear:
(A) Assuming you're town, fypv, you
know
the contents of eyestott's letter are fake. (B) Given (A), either: (b1) eyestott is lying OR (b2) someone's role allowed them to frame you.
(C) That means, fypv, you have confirmed scum in eyestott OR someone who is not mason/splitter/flavour revealer/role flavourer
Given the above, why are you voting me when you should be pushing eyestott or any of the people who's roles are not mentioned in (C)?
As a side note, and again assuming you are town fypv, you know Titus is prone to tunneling this game (which she's been doing to me and you all game), so why go with her vote here?
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You said it here already, so I'll change the wording a bit so it applies to your own post.In post 1361, Titus wrote:EP, There's a difference between "Someone has a guilty" and let's out all the conftown. Without an owner, there is no guilty. If there's no guilty, then Pisskop is framed.
I don't like it either as it means my early scumread was wrong but facts are facts.
In post 1104, Titus wrote:Revealing the [JOAT] gives scum a roadmap to kill. A hidden [JOAT] in lylo or stopping their own mislynch is more valuable [especially since the JOAT still has actions remaining].In post 1101, EspressoPatronum wrote:Outing the other mason might buy the JOAT more time alive. It'd force scum to pick between them.In post 1079, Titus wrote:I would rather keep the other mason hidden. We need the joat to claim. Then tmo we can talk about mass claim. If the other mason dies, I'll be on board with massclaim.In post 1078, gobbledygook wrote:Yeah I would lynch pisskop probably without a massclaim, but I think massclaim is necessary
Hiding [the JOAT was something davesaz did to great success in Gay Mafia in TM 20]. Scum just were literally out of mislynches because [he tracked the last scum].
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If you're town, I think eyestott is scum.In post 1364, pisskop wrote:Because I tried to get people onto eyestott. And I cant help us win if Im dead.
Do you think eye is scum? I think its unlikely.
Even if you're scum, I still think eyestott is sus because he hasn't given us the complete information pertaining to his role. He said he'll fullclaim tomorrow, so I'll reevaluate my read on him based on: (1) your flip, and (2) the information he reveals.
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In post 1364, pisskop wrote:Because I tried to get people onto eyestott. And I cant help us win if Im dead.
.Do you think eye is scum? I think its unlikely
If you think eyestott being scum is unlikely, that means town!you thinks someone else framed you. Wouldn't you therefore want to wagon the person most likely to have framed you? (See option B2 in 1362).In post 1366, pisskop wrote:okay, i want him to fullclaim no matter what else happens, so if you can get a wagon on him consider me on.
That should mean town!you wants a wagon on one of alim, Eve, Titus, or Egix,* minus whichever one is the mason. (See option C in 1362)
*Egix is an option for who framed you but not a viable wagon today.
I understand your willingness to vote me out of survivalism, but town!you should see that voting me delays the issues presented by the mail/letter claim. It's better for town to deal with it now (ie. vote you/eyestott/one of the other options) while there's likely still room for error.
Perhaps the JOAT thought we would follow the claim blindly.In post 1367, pisskop wrote:Rule 1 of being town: you dont make claims that people wont follow you blindly on. And then not elaborate. Its absolutely begging to make a tunnel/feud.
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The same person who claimed the guilty also told us the JOAT has remaining actions.In post 1369, Titus wrote:I have no idea whether the joat has actions remaining. That requires the mystical, nonexistent joat to claim.
_________________In post 1135, eyestott wrote:The JOAT informed me that they will not be claiming today.In post 1068, EspressoPatronum wrote:I support a full claim today.
If we're actually in mylo, I'd prefer if the JOAT confirmed eyestott's story..They aren't done with their abilities
[...]
Why is this relevant?Pisskop claimed X shot tracker too.
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The JOAT dies if they claim. So does the mason.In post 1370, Titus wrote:The joat is only conftown if it claims. The mason is conftown regardless.
If they both claim at the same time, we gain either:
1) an extra day of an outed mason (ie. a confirmed town to lead the town), or
2) an extra ability use by the JOAT
This is why I wanted them both to reveal. Since that isn't going to happen, I don't think either should reveal.
Considering the mason options are down to 2 people, I'm not sure how useful them holding out is going to be. Their call though.
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I'm not sure what you're arguing here.In post 1374, Titus wrote:EP, that assumes the mailman is actually a joat. We have no proof of such. The absence of proof means either a) eyestott is lying, b) the sender is scum or c) the joat is an idiot because people should think a or b.
Pisskop might have useful actions as much as this "joat".
To reiterate, I am pro-reveal insofar as the JOAT AND mason reveal. This string of posts started because I was demonstrating to you why it can be pro-town for the JOAT to remain hidden here if they believe pk's lynch will go through without a full reveal. You evidently want the JOAT to reveal, but you're overlooking the fact that if the JOAT exists and they reveal, they will most likely die tonight. This result will deprive town of their additional actions. Those actions may or may not be better or more numerous than pk's X tracking, but that's irrelevant. If the JOAT comes forward and reveals, we kill pisskop (eliminating his tracking ability) and effectively sentence the JOAT to die (eliminating their additional abilities). Then we're left with nothing.
Your vote on me here doesn't make sense because voting outside of pisskop, eyestott, or any other potential senders does not resolve this issue. You're acting like the JOAT doesn't exist but you're pushing the problem to tomorrow.
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pisskop wrote:I mean even before gobbles speculated, I had my own guess' on who was what.
Saying 'we dont need them to claim because we have enough info' is kind of what scum want. No scum worth their salt is going to not going to be combing through isoes.
What is better, is to have both claim, force scum to choose between a joat with a mystery shot, a mason, and a tracker, and see what they pick from that.
Potentially useful role or mechanical clear?
I'm assuming these are directed at me, so I'll reiterate my stance again. I agree that a mass claim would be useful here, as stated earlier:pisskop wrote:This whole day has become about hiding players that, at this stage, should not want to be hidden.
In post 1068, EspressoPatronum wrote:I support a full claim today.
If we're actually in mylo, I'd prefer if the JOAT confirmed eyestott's story.
However, given thatIn post 1196, EspressoPatronum wrote:I really think today is the day to fullclaim, given all the claim shenanigans going on right now
Titus, Egix, Eve, eyestott, and alimdia are evidently against a full claim
, I think the JOAT staying undercover is the next best option. Please see my most recent posts for an explanation of why I think it is the next best option.- EspressoPatronum
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Feel free to dispute my ideas with reasons of your own rather than dogmatic assertions.In post 1379, Titus wrote:No. Any mystical joat with a guilty should full claim. Period.In post 1378, EspressoPatronum wrote:pisskop wrote:I mean even before gobbles speculated, I had my own guess' on who was what.
Saying 'we dont need them to claim because we have enough info' is kind of what scum want. No scum worth their salt is going to not going to be combing through isoes.
What is better, is to have both claim, force scum to choose between a joat with a mystery shot, a mason, and a tracker, and see what they pick from that.
Potentially useful role or mechanical clear?I'm assuming these are directed at me, so I'll reiterate my stance again. I agree that a mass claim would be useful here, as stated earlier:pisskop wrote:This whole day has become about hiding players that, at this stage, should not want to be hidden.
In post 1068, EspressoPatronum wrote:I support a full claim today.
If we're actually in mylo, I'd prefer if the JOAT confirmed eyestott's story.However, given thatIn post 1196, EspressoPatronum wrote:I really think today is the day to fullclaim, given all the claim shenanigans going on right nowTitus, Egix, Eve, eyestott, and alimdia are evidently against a full claim, I think the JOAT staying undercover is the next best option. Please see my most recent posts for an explanation of why I think it is the next best option.
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They're only mechanical "could be's" as long as (1) we don't have a fullclaim, and (2) we don't resolve the possibilities. You're against (1) and your vote shows that you have no interest in (2). If you had your way, you would willingly send town into likely lylo with unresolved mechanics that could have been resolved the day before.In post 1391, Titus wrote:Because both scenarios deal with could be not what actually is. It could be that Alimeda lied and sent a fake guilty (scum did that in Boon There done that) or eyestott could be lying. I have more confidence in EP scum thanIn post 1390, gobbledygook wrote:Well, these people are voting EP in light of thinking the guilty on PK is fake. Why would those people not be voting for eyestott, the claimer of the guilty they think is fake, or vote for someone who could have the mailman ability now that it’s been revealed EP’s night action is not to send mail?
How does that turn into an EP vote?mechanical could bes.
Thankfully, the majority of people here seem interested in resolving (2) one way or another (ie. voting eyestott or pk) instead of pushing the issue to tomorrow.
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In post 1394, alimdia wrote:Eve talk moar in our chat plx
You guys are killing me, lol. Is the chat real or not??In post 1397, Eve wrote:sorry alim i'm writing up my reads in there now
tell me what you think before i post them to the thread
If it is, why did you send mail to Eve, alim?
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From this to:In post 1388, gobbledygook wrote:The votes on EP make literally no sense given the current situation.
gobbledygook wrote:VOTE: EP
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In post 1418, gobbledygook wrote:Only one player can have possibly sent that mail, based off all the claims
In post 1420, gobbledygook wrote:No, Titus.
If Titus is the only one to have sent the mail but thinks pk is innocent, then why wouldn't she be voting eyestott for lying about the contents of the mail?!In post 1421, pisskop wrote:titus seems pretty sure Im not guilty.
She evidently didn't send the mail.
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List of options:In post 1417, alimdia wrote:and everyone has plausible deniability if pisskop flips town.
like eyescotts gonna say he got the mail, and nobodys gonna take ownership of that mail
- if pk flips town, we know somebody lied but nobody will take ownership of it.
- if pk flips scum, there's a good chance that the sender of the mail is town. It looks good on eyestott, too.
If we lynch eyestott:
- and he's scum, we know he tried to frame pk and/or bait claims.
- and he's town, we still don't know if the contents of the letter were accurate AND we don't know who sent it. Nobody will take ownership for it.
Voting pk is better because getting it right on pk is better than getting it right on eyestott. Getting it wrong on pk is less bad than getting it wrong on eyestott. .
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This is exhausting. You evidently didn't read my post again.In post 1439, Titus wrote:Because in Boon There Done That scum sent a fake guilty.In post 1429, EspressoPatronum wrote:In post 1418, gobbledygook wrote:Only one player can have possibly sent that mail, based off all the claimsIn post 1420, gobbledygook wrote:No, Titus.If Titus is the only one to have sent the mail but thinks pk is innocent, then why wouldn't she be voting eyestott for lying about the contents of the mail?!In post 1421, pisskop wrote:titus seems pretty sure Im not guilty.
She evidently didn't send the mail.
Dude, your hand is so far up the cookie jar, it's in the oven.
I was saying
YOU
didn't send the mail to eyestott. That has nothing to do with scum sending or not sending a fake guilty.- EspressoPatronum
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In post 1460, eyestott wrote:Eve is the only person to have claimed mason, right?
Alim says Eve is town. Gobble guessed she's a mason. She denied neither:In post 1462, eyestott wrote:maybe i'm wrong. I remember something to do with that, but maybe someone else claimed she was mason and she didn't deny it
In post 1258, alimdia wrote:Is it a good time to mention that Eve is town?
_______________________________________In post 1279, gobbledygook wrote:Alrighty. I’m just going to do this because this game is stalling.
Egix is the JoAT. Eve is the mason. Flavor revealer has to be EP.
I'm almost certain Eve is trolling with the fakehammer + "slip", but I'd like alim to weigh in before we make any decisions.
@Eve how can Egix and Churros help you?
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Wut?!In post 1492, TemporalLich wrote:eyestott has been flavor revealed! His flavor is Town Informed Role Flavourer*.
I'd say this means his flavour is either to support a fake claim or to help with his real claim. Tough to say which one rn.
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And in a game where he gave everyone memey and/or useless flavour, the fact that his flavour includes his claimed faction and role is strange.In post 1503, Churros wrote:He's the one that gives flavor.
That's his flavor.
It technically means not something the mod has choosen to him, but something he choose himself.
Hmmm.
Good question.Churros wrote:[...]
@eye was it the mod or yourself that gave you that "flavour" ?
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It ended up working out quite well. The real mason is still alive.
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Reread the entirety of yesterday. I don't need to tell you when my play speaks for itself.In post 1535, Titus wrote:Egix, EP, why should I townread you and lynch the other?
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We can't be certain of the extent of the gambit and/or whether it was actually a gambit at all. I'm waiting until alimdia weighs in before jumping to conclusions.In post 1534, gobbledygook wrote:This game is so so messy from the gambit lol
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I have already tried to engage with you, but you shut me down every time I try. Instead of talking to deaf ears, I'm inviting you to do the legwork instead. Please do the following: 1) reread pisskop's ISO, 2) reread the arguments I presented for pisskop's lynch, and 3) reread who was on the wagon and trying to get off.In post 1538, Titus wrote:This is unhelpful. Yesterday I wanted to lynch you. I still do. You're supposed to try and convince me not to lynch you.In post 1536, EspressoPatronum wrote:Reread the entirety of yesterday. I don't need to tell you when my play speaks for itself.In post 1535, Titus wrote:Egix, EP, why should I townread you and lynch the other?
After doing so, and especially after #3, you'll find that you, gobble, and eyestott look the worst from yesterday. Upon a reread, you'll also note that I believe I have a good idea of your role, which is the only reason I'm not actively pushing you. If it turns out I'm wrong about your role, you will become my top scumread. Until such time, I will be looking to eyestott and gobble, in that order. There's clearly something weird going on with eyestott's role, and gobble was looking for every opportunity to leave pk's wagon.
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How does it clear gobble?In post 1544, Titus wrote:My VCA clears Gobble.In post 1542, EspressoPatronum wrote:gobble was looking for every opportunity to leave pk's wagon.
You're welcome to vote Egix.
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The VCA alone fails to provide the context of gobble's wagon swaps. In addition, it doesn't capture his brief swap to my wagon, putting me at L-2. He says it was a meme vote, but he could have been testing the waters.Titus wrote:Click the temporal iso.In post 1545, EspressoPatronum wrote:How does it clear gobble?In post 1544, Titus wrote:My VCA clears Gobble.In post 1542, EspressoPatronum wrote:gobble was looking for every opportunity to leave pk's wagon.
You're welcome to vote Egix.
Look where Gobble is when Pisskop was an option.
Here's a recap of gobble's votes on pk, plus all of his votes yesterday.
DAY 1:
pk was never a viable wagon on D1. It was always between Adorable or RS. To me, this vote looks like a token vote against pk.
DAY 2:
gobble waffled between momo and pk near the end of the day. Notably, he stayed on pk despite the flash wagon on momo. He may have been trying to stay off the town wagon.In post 890, gobbledygook wrote:Fine
VOTE: Pisskop
The slot has done literally nothing all game. It gets purge
DAY 3:
In post 895, gobbledygook wrote:Let’s murderate pk
In post 1163, gobbledygook wrote:I don’t think he’s been particularly townie, and it could be a way for scum to get to the end quicker. The fact that you are a mailman makes me think there is not a scum mailman and that eyestott made all of this up.In post 1160, alimdia wrote:How does eyestott's flip prove anything about pisskop?In post 1154, gobbledygook wrote:Ok. We lynch eyestott then you tomorrow, if he’s town?
VOTE: Eyestott
In post 1217, gobbledygook wrote:VOTE: Pisskop
If this is town, eyestott was definitely setup. But the more I think about this game, I am thinking the guilty is real and its Alim + Egix
Churros summed this up nicely:
Gobble's voting yesterday looks to achieve two things: 1) be on the pk wagon, 2) try to start a different wagon if possible.In post 1472, Churros wrote:In fact it weirds me out as well that there's considerable amount of people hedging on him scum but no vote yet at all.
VOTE: gobbles
I can do either pisskop or eyesott as well. I think they are a bit self resolving either today or tomorrow in the massclaim.
Failing #2, gobble ultimately voted out pk. This absolutely should not clear gobble. Instead, I believe it sets up eyestott and gobble as T/S, as I struggle to see scum!gobble trying to save scum!pk by bussing another scum. At the same time, town!gobble may have rightly found two scum and was waffling between two. Town gobble is excellent at scumreads, so I'm inclined to go eyestott first.
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I mean, I just demonstrated that it doesn't.In post 1551, Titus wrote:Yeah my VCA works without context EP. It's infuriating to some.
I await your reasons for how gobble's VCA clears him. Merely asserting that it clears him isn't persuasive.In post 1380, EspressoPatronum wrote: Feel free to dispute my ideas with reasons of your own rather than dogmatic assertions.
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Then I sincerely hope I don't make it to lylo with you.In post 1554, Titus wrote:I'm not voting Gobble until you and Egix are dead, so that's a thing.