TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: dgb

[Xtoxm]

P.S. Everyone should IGNORE the first lone of the 2nd quote. It was some elevated sophisticated play by me to survive longer and thus be able to rope them all one by one. It was a divide and concur type of move. A really convoluted move in a moment of genius.

i knew you were up to something a50 - and i didn't believe for a second that i had you pocketed, you're way too smart for that.
my team kept saying we had the wool pulled on you and we should prime you for lylo. but i was like, no no, you don't understand, he's playing on a higher level.
great play as usual, a50.

[Xtoxm]

auro's opinion on hercule talking about his scum playstyle is that it's town indicitive
he says that scum can steal a march on a possible question about it by posting in this way, but that it would be unnecessary to go into such depth
herc believes that he will be able to earn townreads from the way he plays, which, if scum, would require confidence on hercs part that he can both make a substantial change in the way plays scum, and also get townread doing it
he also thinks scum herc would know such a play is unlikely to repay him well

he criticizes llds push on hercs 2nd post, saying repeated attacks have been made but no explanation of why it is scum indicative
why scum, as opposed to exhilarated town? does she expect the hercule is disingenuous in his belief that his team has players that are strong in town roles?

he is confused at the number of people treating mastina in an insulting way, and notes that he has mastina as locktown (????)
feels that agar reacted disproportionately to mastina calling him null, however he's not sure if it's alignment indicitive

at this point he offers a readslist:
town: mastina, hercule, iv, ceph
scum: agar, lld, dgb

his stomach feeling on a50 is scum. i've told him that i veto any d1 a50 vote wishes he has.

[Xtoxm]

he also thinks scum herc would know such a play is unlikely to repay him well

can auro expand on this specifically

I don't really follow why that would be the case

hercule could have written a less detailed catalogue and then subscribed to other tendencies of his typical scum playstyle. so if he is scum, he need either present a factually incorrect outline, or holds sufficient belief that he can fool town by taking up a new way of playing as scum, whilst being aware that the amount of wifom involved makes it a comparatively frail gain. he considers both of these scenarios as low probability, with the more likely scenario being that he is speaking without chains, as a result of being town, and that there is no agenda behind what he's done.

[Xtoxm]

I really want some XTOXM content this game and not Auro content. Xtoxm walk us through your range of emotions and thoughts between the game being ruined to now. That's all I wanna hear

>i dont really wanna play v2 maybe i should rep
>nah i should stick it out for my teammates
>eugh the plist tho
>oh town, think its impossible for us to win the event since im pretty sure theres a team that gets 4 town wins if we get 3 wins
>cunts still pushing lies about me from last game
>god this playerlist is fucking garbage
>why do people cry about teammates content being posted in team mafia, you signed up for the wrong fucking game, dipshits

auros game is over and there are

going to be

comically overparaphrased auro posts

[Xtoxm]

I need to go soon and I feel like this interaction was not a valuable use of my time :/

if people sr you before you engage the game i'll scowl at them and judge them silently
go take care of yourself <3

[Xtoxm]

im not seeing any reasons to vote hercule...just repeated assertions that his posts are bad ???
monologuing about yourself isnt a case on hercule

[Xtoxm]

i mean, not two yeets, but two days

I would not mind a second day to figure shit out and then a flip choice.

I'm confident I can find them today. More confident if I have a second day to use.

But I'm willing to do it today if needed.

I may still be a fool, but I'm willing to move LLD to the TRs now. I don't think she doubles down in her own fate like this as Scum. She's a fierce fighter for survival.

please try to think beyond the surface a50
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p9909153

[Xtoxm]

i think this effort level is quite likely town mastina. p27 was when i finally got to a tr there.
auro's been tr her for longer, and stronger, than i am. he's got a bunch more stuff to paraphrase wen i have the energy for it

*sigh* time to wade into the shit
VOTE: lld

our current thoughts are {dunn, lld, dann, +1}
im tr/tl all of the lld wagon
my only tr on the herc wagon is ceph. something definitely feels not right about having lopsided reads like this, but both me and auro feel that the herc wagon is scum stacked.

[Xtoxm]

auro has also offered his reasons for tr mastina (literally just now in response to you, a50):
her recent meta (last year or so), is for scum posting less often, making responses, some ate. as town, she continually posts read lists, appears to have a lot of zest for the game, strong thread presence, and a focus on securing strong townreads. he feels the latter is what he's seeing in her this game.

[Xtoxm]

@hercule, auro has written a brief post for you (paraphrased):
i see that you are feeling defeated, please don't let the wagon get to you. maintain your vigour, for you have allies.

[Xtoxm]

[auro posting]

on dann, and his read on us for auro's early paraphrased posts, he feels the read is questionable, as he makes similar posts as scum, and would expect that his game having ended would be the more obvious first thought for auro's higher investment in this game compared to v1.

likes agar's response to my #519, thinks scum!agar may have used it as an opportunity to push us. notes that agar is now nulltown for him.

mastina is 100% town, he feels confident in this read

even if i were to 100% play this game as proxy through xtoxm (which im NOT, but hypothetically), so long as i'm following the game closely...what is the issue with that? the only negative factor is perhaps a loss of understanding when words are paraphrased

mastina can you explain why you have dunn as town? he says that immediately attacking x for a paraphrased post pinged him. the reasoning dunn gave for the naked voted is poor, and incorrect. he calls my scumreads low charisma. notably lld is in this group that called low charisma. i think he made a bad vote, felt awkward about it, and felt the need to say ~something~ about it which came out as bullshit. since then, he made multiple pop ins to the thread, to comment only on X, with no other takes. scum-dunn is discombobulated that he is unfollowed onto us. he then drops the line entirely and moves to the hercule wagon.

hercule has moved up to a very strong townread
i have the very similar thoughts on him as mastina
i am ambiancing with mastina

also mastina, why is oka locktown? he has a solid scum game and i dont feel that what he's put down so far is anything he's not capable of doing as scum.

@oka, im wondering why you think mastina is a player who would make a read dependent on the number of votes [im not sure what he's refering to here i hope you do?]

the people on the hercule wagon should feel terrible, he is crystalline town.

i am very puzzled at the wagon on hercule

.

he found WF initially scummy, due to #664, however this read later evolves, he cites #996 as townie post. his up to date read on this slot is town.

mastina, why in tarnations am I reading AtE from you regarding who we eliminate? I'm not talking about the hercule defense but the options one through four nonsense.

Time to skim.

mastina enjoys typing, and i feel you should have enough experience with her to know this!

dgb takes a significant upgrade in read, for making a good push on lld.

[end auro]

[Xtoxm]

thats probably a bit all over the place but paraphrasing is hard ~.~

[Xtoxm]

oka, i have a response and im still a bit confused personally but i'll try to convey.
he says it's about your post #639.
he doesn't think mastina is someone who is going to consider the number of townreads on a player, or the votes that they have, as a key reason behind her own decisions.
he is not accusing you of doing this but it's his reading of that post
perhaps you could explain/expand on what you were saying there?

[Xtoxm]

thank you. he seems to be satisfied with your response.

(for your own context around it, he was saying its the type of thing scum might try to push. as far my own reading interpretation of that post and your response, i don't think it's suspicious)

[Xtoxm]

an open question from auro, @whoever is townreading dunn:
what do you tr about him?
what do you think of my comments on him that X paraphrased?

[Xtoxm]

you wrong because you called lld low charisma
i dont see how you can possibly argue that's a correct statement
honestly your recent posts here have me wondering if im off the mark you, i was feeling pretty good abt that sr
dann...i honestly liked his take on our slot. for me the way he joined herc felt weird, it seemed at odds with the rest of what he'd been doing and kinda made me flinch.
auro has generally had a meh/scum feel abt him the whole time.

[Xtoxm]

i dont think lld is an easy vote...i think she's one of, if not the hardest players to eliminate in this game. i doubt we'll be able to get it tbh.
dann's vote, my sense from him was that he wasn't heading toward a herc vote, so that appearing was unexpected for me.
im generally confused at how quickly this herc wagon has grown, when i dont feel its warranted, so ive been tinfoil wondering if scum are like coordinating their votes on here (like, 3 scum votes on the wagon) - this would explain the wagon speed, and dann's out-of-place looking vote would be a candidate for that imo.

[Xtoxm]

i mean, both me and auro have played with her before.

it did. there was 2 scum on my wagon. (they later came off)
i was scummy tho and made some kinda dumb blunders cus i havent played mafia for a year.
i dont feel herc is in the same kinda spot i was last game to be deserving of so many votes.

[Xtoxm]

because hercule has been really fucking townie

[Xtoxm]

hercule pls
we didn't put all this work in saving you from scum for you to come out and townread said scum
lld is scum and we are eliminating her today
ffs

[Xtoxm]

the case on dunnstral

(cases are scummy version)

preface: this is the result of significant discussion between myself and auro on discord. it is not only my, or his case, it is both of ours, in my words. some elements may be influenced by auro or paraphrased.

part 1

: dunnstral is scummy in this game

shitpush on us

VOTE: Xtoxm

It's crazy that you went right back to only posting Auro's opinions, and you

just

got tripped up on that in the last game.

I guess you guys were disconnected and didn't ever understand why I was pushing you?

Also, these townreads and scumreads make me queasy. Something about the charisma values and the reads, it feels like a scum point of view.

you feel hostile

They felt hostile last game.

If you don't remember, look for the one time in all of last game where they acknowledged my existence (I wasn't even in their read list)

Dann, Agar, what do you two like about xtoxm here?

There was a spot where they were aggressive last game

They're doing the same exact type of posting where they don't acknowledge a lot of what is going on, even stuff directed at them

I don't understand how Auro's read on Hercule makes them town

from #398 to #685, where he hops on the hercule wagon (period >24h) he comments only on us. no other opinions on the game, or other players. like dgb said earlier, we think he was picking on an easy target here. i have no doubt that after v1, scum were expecting me to be an easy mis-eliminate this game. (hell, so was i)

VOTE: Hercule

Reading through to page 37 I'm not like, sold on him being scum, but I can see it going either way

shit vote on hercule. he said he's happy for this to go all the way to an eliminate. but he can see it going either way.
yet, for someone expressing such a nonchalant and uncaring attitude, he sure is hard opposed to applying the same logic to another player many of us scumread.

Spoiler: waffling

I don't townread any of these people

I think the second half of 287 by Mastina is pretty weird too.

VOTE: Hercule
Because I don't personally buy that he's towntold either

But the reads presented in 1012 are probably bad

I don't know where to side on lld and dgb. Not scumreading either atm, which could be incorrect. Not enthused about either vote though

I like Dannflor for town after thinking about it. I always have, but I'm less reserved about this read. I don't buy into mastina's case here

I agree that a50 looks like town. Not a strong read

I like 817 from lld, though, votes on the worst feel weird right now. I'm not townreading him but he's about null and said he'd post more later, and people have been putting new votes on him for a while now.

I can see herc as either town who is being pushed for not much and him having trouble in the game because he has to argue against that

OR I can see him as scum who feels caught for the wrong reasons, as pointed out by Dann and Cephrir and LLD around page 33+

Spoiler: active lurking

But you were being bussed, which is something different than a block of scum voting together on a townie

I can see herc as either town who is being pushed for not much and him having trouble in the game because he has to argue against that

OR I can see him as scum who feels caught for the wrong reasons, as pointed out by Dann and Cephrir and LLD around page 33+

I don't think their reaction is towny, at least. What I thought was towny was mostly a tone read and got town apart back to null in the next few pages, and I remember that I shifted to townreading him as the game went on last time. It seems like a fine vote to me

Thank fucking god you're town.

This is literally where I'm at right now and I'm loathe to talk much about it because the minute I stop doing the charismatic confidence bit, the hercule wagon will dissipate?

and I'm right now more certain than not he's scum... but there is a voice in the back of my head whispering bad thoughts to me, and it's talking a lot about the way the 2 wagons have progressed today, people's stances, and what makes sense for scum to do if we were both town.

Can you vibe at me wrt to that topic?

Also I want to be clear that I'm doing something I've basically never done before and being transparent with my process a bit here

Which feels really fucking vulnerable and bad, so I'm really hoping that it pays off and either cures my paranoia or refocuses me in a correct path if needed.

lol

Yeah, which wagon are you talking about, the worst or yourself?

Hercule.

Dunn if you're around I want to dismantle my own wagon I think, but I need to talk to someone who I have the remotest sense of trust in to decide whether my paranoia is legitimate or not.

It also doesn't hurt my team is in my ear about all of this too so.

These posts too mastina

and 1248

these were the only posts made by dunn this day.

I've moved on from xtoxm in case that wasn't clear.

it wasn't, and you're late to the party. i feel i'm pretty obvtown at this point, and a lot of players have called me town.

I would like to better understand why lld is currently being wagoned and where else we should be wagoning

for someone who has taken a hard stance of being opposed to the lld wagon, why has it taken so long to ask this question?

part 2

: dunnstral is playing his scum meta

we've done a fairly deep meta dive on dunn, and we believe we've found a characteristic of dunn's scum play. it is present in this game.
we did an experiment of this by having me pull links in dunn's game history direct to his iso, ones that we hadn't looked at before, and showing them blind to auro. auro would try to make a read on dunn using only his iso. i showed him 5 games of psuedo random alignments. some of them he was confident in, and called quickly, a couple he said he was unsure and guessing a little - but he called all of them correctly.

here are the links i gave to auro. i've spoilered the alignments in case you'd like to perform the experiment yourself:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Spoiler:

scum

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Spoiler:

town

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Spoiler:

town

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Spoiler:

scum

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Spoiler:

town

when dunn is town he provides insightful reads that are well explained. when he is scum, this is not always the case, especially early in the game. he is prone to making blanket statements such as "i like [player]" with little or no justification. as town, he just goes straight into explaining his positions. auro looked over these iso's, with a focus on identifying non backed up blanket statements. the tell itself is not absolute - there are some instances of him doing it as town - but they are much rarer. people may cheery pick these to refute our case, but i'll reiterate: auro called dunn's alignment correctly every time.

instances of dunn doing it this game:

I like Dannflor for town after thinking about it. I always have, but I'm less reserved about this read. I don't buy into mastina's case here

I agree that a50 looks like town. Not a strong read

And I don't like DGB on 37

And I do like Dann, Ceph, jjh, and to a cautious extent lld

The worst/Winter Flakes/Titus: This group feels unreadable for me; I want to say there's probably scum in this group

could auro have gotten lucky with 5 consecutive guesses? well, maybe. but 5 in a row is pretty long odds. auro seems to be pretty good at meta reading dunn, and he has a heavy scumread on dunn this game.

i have been reluctant to post our case, as im worried about dismantling our wagon on lld, but auro feels its time to share.

we still want to eliminate lld today

we feel this is the best flip for the game state, and we have a heavy scum read there also. we scumread both independently. perhaps this will help inform opinions on one of the players who is desperate to wagon outside of lld.

[Xtoxm]

dgb if we are both town then who is scum? im scumsiding with scum!dunnstral and scum!okapoka who are trying to deflect away from scum!LLD? is that the narrative that makes the most sense for you rn (if im town)?

quite possibly!
i have no idea about oka, tbh, but i dont tr him.

[Xtoxm]

mm, okay response. huge activity spike. probably nai.

The implication that I never say "I like x" as town is wrong

I did it in Tenet, I did it in the last run of this of this setup

the tell itself is not absolute - there are some instances of him doing it as town - but they are much rarer. people may cheery pick these to refute our case

misrepping me like this isn't going to help me trust you. there are no instances of it in v1. there's one post where you quote me say "i dont like this read"..but that doesn't

really

match what we've been looking for.
the claim isn't that you don't provide insight as scum (you do as both aligns), or that you never make empty posts as town..its that it happens

more often

as scum.

i don't really wanna get bogged down on the meta stuff tho. it's supplementary.
i'll reassess the read if im given reasons to.

[Xtoxm]

thoughts on dgb @xtoxm?

town

[Xtoxm]

actually scratch that you think LLD is scum~

why is LLD scum?

im struggling to put that read to words in the same way i can with dunn
i could give some reasons probably but they will sound dumb

[Xtoxm]

actually scratch that you think LLD is scum~

why is LLD scum?

im struggling to put that read to words in the same way i can with dunn
i could give some reasons probably but they will sound dumb

but you are stronger on LLD scum than dunn scum?

until tonights flurry dunn was the stronger read, i think lld is now. lld feels more important to elim gamestate wise.

[Xtoxm]

basically
-i townread pretty much the entire wagon
-she asked to boped on hercule. i have a mega tr on hercule i feel like i dont need to mis elim him first for that.
-there was a moment where i was talking to dunn and i didnt feel he was being townie at all and lld came in and called dunn town and it sounded really fake
-the wagon feels hardstuck and that makes me think its a situation like last game where scum are just refusing to bus

i think theres more but im super tired rn

[Xtoxm]

perhaps a little
but i do feel like lld red flip would strongly imply the wagon parkers are town cus i dont think scum would be wanting to bus her
if its green i need to shake up my game view
this is why shes a good gamestate flip

[Xtoxm]

the vla aside i havent been so into what tw has done while hes here - joining of herc wagon, and the dgb wagon - and i got the impression he was unread when taking these positions so im kinda confused why he wanted to do those things.

jjh's reads have much overlap with mine so hes cautiously heading in the direction of a tr

[Xtoxm]

If DGB and/or Xtoxm leave the LLD wagon, I'll vote the worst. But as long as they're both voting LLD, I'm sticking with them.

i'm leaving leaving lld while you're here

[Xtoxm]

If DGB and/or Xtoxm leave the LLD wagon, I'll vote the worst. But as long as they're both voting LLD, I'm sticking with them.

i'm not leaving leaving lld while you're here

ebwop

lol thats been a while

[Xtoxm]

question from auro:
were {dgb, xtoxm, mastina} to be all revealed as town, would this say anything about lld's alignment?

[Xtoxm]

i misread the question - its the same with {dgb, xtoxm, hercule}
i expect your response is roughly identical

[auro]

if we are all town, lld has been aggro pushing town all day, which demostrates the slot is playing to a pro-scum agenda
okay, the monty hall scenario is increases the statistics, but lld is a claimed

strong

scumhunter

so with this player having pushed exclusively town slots (excuse your suspicion on dgb for the argument) who's also
1. strong town player in a game with many strong town players
2. is known to attack universal townreads with flaws that can be capitalised on
where does it lead?

if you dismiss this with "oh, town can be wrong", observe that she has failed to fix any of her reads, and has doubled down on {herc, dgb, x} containing scum (the slot voting you is not an excuse when the slot is obvtown on its own merits)

this also raises the question of how you will ever gain an accurate read on lld. if you excuse repeated bad pushes as "can be wrong town", then you can never see the difference between scum!ldd and town!lld. you need to look at the actions, not the words.

if you concur with this, then we can instead debate whether all of {dgb, hercule, xtoxm} are town.

if you do not concur, then you will keep asserting that no case exists until she wins.

[end auro]

[Xtoxm]

okay. we townread dgb. so you see our perspective.

we will towncase dgb

[Xtoxm]

for me no, my poe is larger than i'd like.

my townreads are:

DGB
mastina
hercule
WF*
ceph
iv
a50
hopkirk

*auro disputes

[Xtoxm]

I need you to explain why the bad pushes are bad pushes from LLD.

its a hypothetical dann. if all three are revealed as town, then the pushes are confirmed to be on town and were by definition bad pushes. exchange the word bad for incorrect if it makes things clearer.
it sounds like your answer is no regardless.

(the obvtown comment was in reference to the vote on me...auro feels ive been obvtown)

Can you expound on what you're seeing here? Not lining up with this one.

this ones getting a little stale, but im low on townreads so im hanging onto what i felt earlier.
i liked 686 a decent amount, where he talks about voting duck for the first time ever. tw is ~scary player~ for scum to play against and placing your first ever vote on him having rolled scum in TM is probably not it.
there are some other thoughtful posts ive liked, such as 966.
basically, there's a few things ive liked, and nothing that ive disliked.

[Xtoxm]

who do you think flips scum if LLD does? have you mentioned any specific associatives? i provisionally dislike dann/ceph without having done in depth isoing yet

ok so first off im not big on pre-flip associatives, or even associatives in general, tbh. i think there's probably stronger anti-associatives to be gained. mastina and dgb both are really committed to the wagon, so cements in my trs there. i think ythan gets towncred too, cus i have no idea why ythan is bussing lld, and he joined fairly early and has stayed on the whole way.

if pressed to answer i could see oka being a lld buddy, he's been at least presenting himself as someone who could be persuaded to join, but when talking to im not getting the sense that he actually ever would. i also feel like he's reducing our suspicions to less than they are. it feels like he keeps saying we dont have a case, and maybe we haven't presented in a strong and convincing way why we believe in this, i think all of me/dgb/mastina have to some degree explained ourselves. perhaps titus? she called herc/lld tvt pretty early and im not sure she really ever justified that convincingly.

on ceph, my current view is lld-scum, ceph-town, and lld flipping scum would reinforce this. he's come across as confused about the wagon and trying to understand it, in a way i think would be hard to fake. he feels significantly different here to v1. and yeah i get argument that you'd try to be different. i'd have

tryed

to be diff if i'd rolled scum again, but at some point you're limited by you're ability to change. i don't there's that many people who are scum gods who can completely reinvent themselves for an instant reroll on the same player list.

dann - i don't feel he has any anti-associative with lld. in general, i'm conflicted, tbh, he's been laying down decent content, and kept it up throughout. he's got a bunch of stuff ive disliked/disagreed with. auro keeps telling me he's within scumrange, but i'm wondering how wide his scumrange really is. has he has any big breakout scum performances in the year ive been away? i will note that i get the opposite feeling than i do with oka - ie, that he may be willing to join if i could give him something that he doesn't feel is pathetic.

ok but enough of that rabbit hole. i wanna see the flip, find out if i was right and go from there.

[Xtoxm]

I have decided to do grace you with a readslist but in a new format because I have decided that henceforth I will be either chumreading, ummreading, or scumreading people. I believe this system is self explanatory.

Chums

mastina
Xtoxm

Okapoka
Dannflor

hercule
DrippingGoofball

Winter flakes

InnocentVillager
Hopkirk

Almost50

Umms

Titus
LLD
Cephrir
Ythan

Scums

the worst
AGar
Dunnstral

Disclaimer: The categories of this readslist do not represent a level of confidence on any of these reads. Reads are not ordered by confidence. This is not actually a hard commitment to the CUS system because future me might decide it's stupid.

you townread 6 of the 7 slots that have spent significant time on the lld wagon
join us?

what do you think scum have been doing if lld is town?

[Xtoxm]

that's a little frustrating to hear. ive tried to give you guys something to be excited about explictly, being by waning LLD townread to hopefully incetivize you guys presenting a concentrated post on how you connected the dots on lld being scum, but you guys gave me the BoP argument and want to work on a dgb towncase instead of doing some analysis. look im downplaying your case because i feel like there has to be something else that you just aren't mentioning, and half of me asking you about your lld argument is to figure you out, not lld. lots of arguments are flying around but i don't feel like they get to the bone, just a summary about what lld has done this game and meta tangents. the fact remains that there are enough people that share the same concern with me w.r.t. lld's wagon where maybe its not a me problem but a you problem.

i'm difficult to read this game?
im hiding things??

Spoiler: for okas eyes only

okay oka i went back thru our disc looking for the times we've spoken abt lld which was a lot of effort btw cus its gigantic at this point

its all paraphrased even my own stuff

auro comments that lld keeps attacking hercule but without giving reasons. scumleans lld.
i mention that im in general agreement with him that lld's push is weak/silly, and im confused why so many people are joining the hercule wagon

auro talks about how eliminating hercule is hugely beneficial for scum and pushing there is suspicious
i nod in agreement

auro comments that he'd be alright with a bop on lld
i say that i found that post really scummy, its over-bargainy and that those kind of offers never get followed through on, if lld mis elims OBVIOUSLY she's going to continue resisting her elim after
auro thinks its a town tell, and asks me if its ever happened before
i say i dont know

lld makes some kind of posting saying she forgot agar is playing and auro thinks this is town indicative for some reason

auro notes that lld still hasnt explained the hercule read and wants me to press it

auro has done some meta research on lld, and shows me the link i showed a50 earlier. notes that its the same basic thing lld is doing here

auro thinks lld is acting in a exaggerated way

i comment that it seems like lld doesnt care to have me vote herc with her

some general comments that the herc wagon is awful, and that he tr everyone who is vote lld
i agree with him

he asks me if im planning to vote lld
says he's going to perma tunnel lld if herc gets eliminated and revealed to be town
i say that i do plan to, the game is feeling a bit overbearing atm i'll do it later

auro says the behavior between lld and dann looks bad

auro says that lld is a capable enough player that she should be able to see that hercule has reacted in a town way, it's scummy that she's still trying to push it through to a kill
says that we need to be aggressive and prevent a powerwolf from eliminating a player who is clearly town

wants me to start talking about our dunn read, suggests that if lld defends dunn that could be an indication they are aligned

auro notes that lld townreads everyone who shades hercule
i comment that as we predicted, she tr dunn
i say i think there will be at least 2 mis elims before lld can go
auro disagrees, he thinks we can do it today

auro is starting to tr iv, particularly if x's suspicion on lld is correct

auro criticizes lld's discrediting of mastina

auro suggests posting our case on dunn, he think if lld is scum, and dunn town, then votes will fall on dunn easily.
i say that while i sr him more, i think lld elim will be better for the game
auro says he feels the same way

auro: noteworthy that lld asks dunn to change her mind on hercule
x: i sr the interaction
auro: why
x: the read on dunn looks manufactured, maybe its a position she's been planning to take
auro: i could see that. maybe she's realized herc wagon was an error, and wants out, and wants to elevate dunn's voice

auro: fabricating a lowering of confidence is a great way to escape from the situation. her ate is nai. tell hercule to look at scum games where lld does ate.

auro:
- scum make a plan of pushing hercule, who at the time was beginning to get townreads
- plan fails due people like mastina, dgb, us
- scum push forward with the wagon
- mastina talks about a game where lld!scum did this to xofelf
- over the top discrediting of mastina
- fabricated change of heart

i comment that one of the biggest reasons i sr lld is the way she's interacted with dunn

x: i really want to see a flip already this is taking so long
auro: lld is scum so of course its going to be slow

x: is there any chance that talk of lld's scumhunting prowess is overhyped and her reads are just wrong? im gonna take a step back, im tunneling too hard for d1

auro: if lld were town, what would we be expecting her to do here?
x: have reads that align even a little with ours?
auro: might be able to construct a case around that. situation in the game is also a factor in the lld read.
x: she already lost the bop she asked for imo. she tried to push herc wagon all the way, and im sure he's town

x: lmao lld voted us. kinda relieved after all these trs on us.
auro: yep.
x: makes me more confident in lld-scum again
auro: i think that would be how she'd react as town, too, though. oh, she's going super aggro on us. i'll be inspired is she can get us mis eliminated.
x: hope more people realise she's scum now
auro: lld is really good at utilising misrepresentation

auro: do you want to spend some time building a solid case on lld?
x: not atm

auro: dgb, mastina, herc wont move
x: im probably ok. maybe she's going for me to try and get tr, by having people talk her into voting dgb since she posted {herc, x, dgb} as the pool, ppl are more likely to tr lld if they think they're convincing her to join on dgb instead of me
auro: eh, im not sure

x: this is stupid. lld is absent, not giving reads other than bad pushes on me and herc, and getting townread for it

auro: lld looks like she's been lurking tactically, based on the timing of her post

auro: it's humorous how lld is constantly attacking credibility.

thats not quite everything but im tired of this
i dont expect this will convince you of anything but you can stop saying im hiding things now

[Xtoxm]

When did it become cool to call me scum this game?

getting cold feet on that fwiw im fine you for the time being

[Xtoxm]

whats wrong with #2156? i feel the same way

[Xtoxm]

A50 is moving in the opposite direction in read structure from last game. Probably a good sign.

Lilith thinks Dunnstrall is town because they think he plays with an aggressive deepwolf agenda as scum. While here he's not showing much of an agenda. Is that accurate Dunn? I wouldn't know.
Says they're hard scum reading IV but also, they always scum read IV.

I thought Oka was less of a firebrand here, naturally on the same page I say this they go all scorched earth on Ythan. S_S liked his vote on LLD as a reaction test. But like, meh.

I can't read the auro through xtom filter, unless it's a 1 to 1 translation a lot is probably being lost. Is it against the rules to copy paste team discussion?

dogshit take
you cant read the 80% of my posts that arent auro either?
this is scum posting bullshit to fill out a lackluster reads post
you have one of the most active and supportive teams, and this is the sum total of their comments in 90 pages?
nah dude
you're scum

[Xtoxm]

ythans posting is top half of this game easily
possibly top quarter

[Xtoxm]

@A50
we usually work well together, whats going on this game?
i have a strong scumread, would you consider backing me?

[Xtoxm]

isn't lld also known for powerwolfing though? that's my biggest holdup rn

lld is known changing playstyle as scum every game, and using every tool available, such as weaponising apathy against town.
do you think her play here has been pro-town or anti-town?

[Xtoxm]

the slot im currently voting.
if you care for my thought process, peek at #2144

[Xtoxm]

[auro]

1.
dgb's method of generating reads has been consistently fluid. look at her play wrt lld:
-dgb noted early in the game that lld's attacks on mastina were scummy
-objected to our slots suspicion on lld for not considering the possibility of performative town!lld
-scumread on lld came after #679, and mentioned the personal attacks, consistent with above

2. what is the reason for it to push lld so far, if scum? does scum!dgb think it wins the 1v1 with hypothetical town!lld?

3. corralling the town to vote, #1574, shows town motivation. it drives up participation, and makes people takes stances.

4. as far as i can see, the case on dgb is:
- motivations being read into how it has played
- appearance as compared to previous game (why the heck does this mean anything?)
if you have a strong read, you will come across as pushing behind a motive, ie, that of pushing you read to a kill (exactly what we have spent the day doing, btw). the tunnel is not out of no where, the path dgb took is clear. lld has also been following the motive of trying to eliminate hercule, xtoxm, dgb - and yet this is okay even if all are town?

5. there has not only been attention on lld, dgb has been regularly updating reads on the playerlist throughout the game, and with explanations not related to the lld read

6. what is the issue with dgb's case in #1810? i want to hear a convincing reason of why is it bad, not just simply a difference of opinion



@dann and dunn. i want you to commit to answers on these for future reference.
1. bop - lld has pushed {hercule, xtoxm, dgb}. i assert that all are town, and this play is insufficient for a scumhunter of lld's quality. you allege that dgb is scum. if dgb flips town, does this hold weight?
2. there have been many attempts for a counterwagon. with a solid block of players who townread each other pushing the lld wagon all day, would it be easy for scum to take advantage and achieve a town!lld flip, and allow the slots who pushed hardest to bear the brunt of the fallout.
3. jjh has mentioned that he townreads much of the wagon composition on lld, which makes it a good wagon. do you agree with his logic? if yes, which slots other than dgb are not townreads for you? if dgb flips town, does this view gain strength?

[end auro]

[Xtoxm]

auro: this faeces is more intense than indian premier league cricket

[Xtoxm]

titus ;=;

[Xtoxm]

you could just cross the picket line now and become my favourite chicken

[Xtoxm]

lol I'm increasingly unsure Luca is town but that'll have to wait until tomorrow

Do an iso of Luca and that should remedy your fears.

The content from Luca is all solid, reasonable, and good. Luca's a fine example of quality > quantity. Luca Blight's posts are basically all really damn good, and when you see the growth and evolution and thought process on display in the iso, his townness shines through.

eh i havent found that he is eroding the read for me
hes lucky he replaced a slot that was really townie

[Xtoxm]

KEKWait

[Xtoxm]

a50 failing to townread me is extremely scummy for him

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: a50

[Xtoxm]

my vote was never about following mastina
she just happened to share the read with me
i dont see what she's seeing in titus

[Xtoxm]

given the wagons yesterday were tvt, my thoughts on what scum were doing yesterday:

#1 didn't probably care ultimately which way the elim went
#2 i think its clear the lld-parkers were more committed than the dgb voters, i dont even think dgb would have been eliminated today, tbh..therefore i expect scum may have preferred the dgb wagon, to maintain the gamestate of lld being wagon parked again today
#3 maybe scum also had elements of fear in voting lld due to reputation or something

given this my slots of interest are:
WF - talked about lld being the better info elim, but then voted dgb instead, with little reasoning provided. fits with (#1) and (#2)
a50 - absent entirely at deadline, never a good sign. fits with (#1). bad takes coming into today

also:
bell - prior susp on this slot. fits (#2). auro thinks his conversation with agar near EOD sounded, in hindsight, informed that both wagons were on town.

dunn - being scummy again. the pre-written post seems like a massive over-reaction to a d1 mis-elim. his plans dont alter at all with the new info on dgb-town.

im not throwing out all my reads bc of one incorrect scumread. my tr was correct on dgb also. the dgb voters were also all wrong.

[Xtoxm]

Ah yes, let's still find a way for voting LLD to be a town tell somehow

you are really wasting a chance at an ally by doing this since you call me a higher tr and i tr you to, and i came into today planning to be a lot more compromising after lld-town

if ppl keep being shits i'll just be toxic back, vote a pet scumread and go lurk

[Xtoxm]

we've had you as solid tr for some time and ive seen nothing today to change that
i think its likely you've exited your scumrange, based on my perception of you as a person and what i know/heard abt your scum game

[Xtoxm]

how do you feel about my reaction to getting shade thrown on me earlier today, is that also scum!indicative?

i mean i dont think the two things are remotely comparable
dunn looks like he wants to take over and control the game going forward
you looked like you had an emotional rxn to being sr
whats the connection ?

[Xtoxm]

Spoiler: lewds

some of our night chat for you guys

x: if dann doesnt come back and vote after his commitment its a scumclaim
a: now im worried shes town because my reads are usually incorrect
x: ya but we need this elimination or we'll never move on
a: mhm, i only mean it will be annoying
x: if theyre both town a50 is probably scum
ok nice she got hammered
a: hope implo posts before i go to bed
x: she was town :sadface:
dont understand the way she played here
so do we think the eod wagons are both town?
a50 being absent for eod is very scummy
as are slots that didnt seem to mind which way it went
a: lld had a bad game. happens to everyone.
i suppose a50 just wasnt online?
x: town are usually more motivated to make themselves available for deadline. or if you're going to be busy, make sure to place a more productive vote beforehand. you're justifying anti town play.
a: not sure, i dont really think of him as a guy that cares that much about the games he plays
so who were the players that didn't mind who got eliminated?
x: winter, he talked abt lld being a good data lim, but then was like lol i'll vote dgb indtead
also dann, oka. they said really early they would change their vote. there was no chance of me voting dgb there.
a: should we put any weight on anything lld said? im not seeing iv scum at all
x: im not listenign to anything from her. she played terrible. she said WE were scum.
a: ugh, i bet dgb gets hard pushed on d2
x: i doubt it
perhaps a little
i think people will come to the conclusion the wagons were tvt, lots of lackerluster/absent players at deadline too
thoughts on titus? i thought the way she deliberated on her vote and came to a decision looked townie
we should reassess our reads probably
do you agree that a50 and wf should be pushed?
a: i feel very unsure about everything at the moment
WF looks bad, i agree
x: bell is also scummy
a: i dont know for a50. i cant read him. i think you may be seeing more calculation in him than actually exists. ive no reason to call him town, however.
bell sounds like he knew lld and dgb are town
x: today was pretty humorous, looking back
the idea of scum not doing much for most of the day is probably on the right lines?

a: my biggest sr is WF, followed by bell

[Xtoxm]

hop, i have agar as like a weaker townread
i thought he was pretty scummy for large parts of yday but towards the end he picked up and looked better
i did like that he tried to push things away from both of lld and dgb given what we now know abt that.

[Xtoxm]

Spoiler: lewds

some of our night chat for you guys

x: if dann doesnt come back and vote after his commitment its a scumclaim
a: now im worried shes town because my reads are usually incorrect
x: ya but we need this elimination or we'll never move on
a: mhm, i only mean it will be annoying
x: if theyre both town a50 is probably scum
ok nice she got hammered
a: hope implo posts before i go to bed
x: she was town :sadface:
dont understand the way she played here
so do we think the eod wagons are both town?
a50 being absent for eod is very scummy
as are slots that didnt seem to mind which way it went
a: lld had a bad game. happens to everyone.
i suppose a50 just wasnt online?
x: town are usually more motivated to make themselves available for deadline. or if you're going to be busy, make sure to place a more productive vote beforehand. you're justifying anti town play.
a: not sure, i dont really think of him as a guy that cares that much about the games he plays
so who were the players that didn't mind who got eliminated?
x: winter, he talked abt lld being a good data lim, but then was like lol i'll vote dgb indtead
also dann, oka. they said really early they would change their vote. there was no chance of me voting dgb there.
a: should we put any weight on anything lld said? im not seeing iv scum at all
x: im not listenign to anything from her. she played terrible. she said WE were scum.
a: ugh, i bet dgb gets hard pushed on d2
x: i doubt it
perhaps a little
i think people will come to the conclusion the wagons were tvt, lots of lackerluster/absent players at deadline too
thoughts on titus? i thought the way she deliberated on her vote and came to a decision looked townie
we should reassess our reads probably
do you agree that a50 and wf should be pushed?
a: i feel very unsure about everything at the moment
WF looks bad, i agree
x: bell is also scummy
a: i dont know for a50. i cant read him. i think you may be seeing more calculation in him than actually exists. ive no reason to call him town, however.
bell sounds like he knew lld and dgb are town
x: today was pretty humorous, looking back
the idea of scum not doing much for most of the day is probably on the right lines?

a: my biggest sr is WF, followed by bell

Why would you spoiler this?

a lot of people in this game really hate auro

--

on dann
- i think dann was killed by scum, and dgb was vigged. a little presumptive maybe, but i feel fairly confident in it.
- dann effectively disavowed the dgb wagon, he talked about wanting a new vote.

Also, I don't really believe DGB is scum now that I've thought about it more and I feel another vote switch incoming.

- dann talked about scumreading bell and luca near eod, and wanting them to be pushed today

lol I'm increasingly unsure Luca is town but that'll have to wait until tomorrow

Do an iso of Luca and that should remedy your fears.

The content from Luca is all solid, reasonable, and good. Luca's a fine example of quality > quantity. Luca Blight's posts are basically all really damn good, and when you see the growth and evolution and thought process on display in the iso, his townness shines through.

I'm afraid I disagree but that'll have to wait until tomorrow

My read on Bell is improving.

Also, where did this come from

Because I can't think it came from Bell directly

It did. Scum!Bell doesn't try at all here. No need for him to.

Okay, but what points to Bell trying here?

I was severely unimpressed by his catchup posts that even included team reads. And then he made an excuse for "all replacements are gonna be scummy."

conclusions:
(1) dann was nightkilled because scum wanted to push dgb today. i think this was definitely a reason. maybe its even enough on its own combined with dann being generally townread.
(2) scum in {luca, bell}

reads.

town:
mastina - town meta
hopkirk - one of very few players seeing the game largely the same way as me, and i feel like i should trust that
iv
ceph

lean town:
titus - her vote at eod yesterday effectively decided outcome of the day. i think her behaviour there would be difficult to fake. i think coming out on lld was the pro-town move, too, to allow those of us tunneled on lld to reassess today. hard conflicts with my earlier thoughts on what scum were doing
oka - i do kinda like all the legwork he put into deadline yesterday, i think its townie. decent reads post today. idk why im stuggling so much to tr him this game, if hes town. :c
luca - the question with this slot, is whether hercule was strong scum, or luca is town thats not good at showing it. hops recent comments have reminded me why i had a strong tr on this slot, and why its probably the latter.

null town:
agar
ythan - gut townread the way he reacted to his wagon yesterday, but i wouldnt be able to come up with anything logical to back it. when im looking at the lld wagon, i do expect scum to be on there somewhere, and i guess hes a candidate since i seem to be townreading a lot of them

poe:
jjh - i dont scumread him, i like some of what hes done, but theres nothing to give me a solid tr either. he could be scum thats playing well.
bell
wf
dunn
a50

[Xtoxm]

given lld died he didn't try especially hard
like he was pushing me with a shitpush that every person who commented on it said it was a terrible push. that's not 'trying' to divert a wagon

reading up to your later list i see that weaker townread is 6-7th from the bottom. does his later posting quoted below move him down for you?

i wouldnt say he tried especially hard to kill me last game either - he expressed his opinion, voted me and left it there.
i've seen his push on you, and obviously, disagree with it. he's made various takes i've disagreed with. im wondering if its just in his town playstyle, though.
i think ive got him in the right spot, he's offered more than the names in the category below.
its worth noting i only have the 4 true town reads, that i feel good about, those in the top category. i wish i could get some more names in there. i'd be unsurprised (expect, even) to find scum in the other categories somewhere. the poe is currently where i'm most optimistic of finding scum, though.

VOTE: luca
the spirit of dann flows through me

so have you been looking into dann's posts before eod? could you elaborate on your thoughts here, this is very bare bones.
why luca over bell, for example?

Adding Xtoxm to the list of my townreads on the advice of petapan, who says he's worlds away from his play in the previous game and in FL vs Hectic. Petapan also TR's Dunnstral.

Which reminds me of Xtoxm's strange reaction to me suspecting him. It's already evident I misread him in the first game, so he can't even argue that I'm good at reading him.

whats strange?
you think it gives you a free pass to scum read me this game?

im glad you're back, mastina. im at least initially impressed by the titus case, in my current sleep deprived state. i'll take a proper look at it with auro.

--

auro's also come through with an updated reads list, as follows:

{Mastina, InnocentVillager, Luca Blight}
{Hopkirk, Ythan}
{Cephrir, OkaPoka, jjh927}
{Titus, A50}
{AGar}
{Dunnstral}
{Bell, Winter Flakes}

[Xtoxm]

i mean even if you dont expect to be a likely night kill, babysitting a strong town read is like really scary
if you do die, its catastrophic
it feels safer going on a scum/null read

[Xtoxm]

ythan reaction to that is really towny

[Xtoxm]

If I was to reevaluate right now I would probably make my solve as 4 of the following 5 names: Xtoxm, jjh, Hopkirk, OkaPoka, Ythan

The other 7 I won't consider voting without an explicit guilty on them. HOWEVER, IV I do TR, and Bell is the "true null" read.

can you walk me through your read of my slot? why am i scum in #3695, town in #4138, and what happened in between?

[Xtoxm]

kick dunn out for starters
so oka would you be happy to see flips on all of bell/wf/jjh/a50?
im kind of ready to start seeing flips on those names
auro wants me to move to bell

p-ed
the vig is in your list oka

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: bell

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: unvote

bell can you give like a reads list or something?
i have no idea what your opinion on most players is

[Xtoxm]

eh im not either i guess but i do think his luca interactions elevate him over {wf, jjh} who have both been hard coasting all game
i want one of those two today if they continue to not town up i think

[Xtoxm]

we are too, its really weird cus i felt the reasoning being given for voting him was weak, i dont see why an announcing neapolitan would ever want to pre-crumb their target or why scum would lie about it
there were some people townreading his slot to various degrees
and he gave up so easily
makes me think bussing
but why scum would think that was a productive thing to do i have no idea

[Xtoxm]

i cant imagine a scum team that agreed to a self hammer..even in a bussing situation. scum teams ive been in have always been very resistant to the idea, myself included, outside of niche scenarios such as guiltied scum wanting to cut off discussion/night action planning. im positive it was an individual decision. maybe he was annoyed at his teammates for some reason, or just the game in general.

[Xtoxm]

hey bell i have a story for you
a couple years ago i was in a game called no deadlines and mastina replaced in
she immediately had a scum read on me and pushed me quite hard
she seemed to be twisting facts and misrepresenting my play to extreme degrees
i was convinced she was scum and we got into a massive 1v1 over it
i corralled everyone who townread me to eliminate her and we yeeted a strong town power role on day 2
i didnt end up getting eliminated but i was widely distrusted and discredited for the rest of the game when my other reads were largely on point
i see you going through the same process i went through

p-ed
at this stage of the game and with the amount of information available, i guarantee that scum are primarily tpr hunting with nightkills

[Xtoxm]

i dont think it needs to be all that contextually similar.
i think mastina is playing the way she usually plays as town
and the more you push back on her the more im starting to tr you as well (it was why i unvoted you yesterday)
you guys are currently cross voting and there are other slots i wanna kill outside you two
i was sharing my own experience so you can understand my perspective, and maybe be aware of the possible pitfall that tunneling mastina can be, if you're town
(idk if/how much you played with her before. ive assumed little to none since you're a new player)

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: winter flakes
this guy is wooden as fuck

VOTE: luca
the spirit of dann flows through me

the one and only time wf mentioned luca on d2 was in the vote he cast.
no pushing of luca, at any point, just voting.
sheeping the the dead is one thing, but there are literally no opinions of his own to go with it.

todays play:

ceph is probably good boi based on putting herc to 7 in the early game in my mind

winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) has spoken

there's probably more shit to look at there but i'm in zoom class smh

as i see it, this is wf only original content today, and its weak.

i like titus for bringing up hop as FoS

i liked Hop early game but been feeling progressively worse as game has gone on and i had a similar thought based on early wagon positioning

sheeping titus

because given the confidence lld had on scum!mastina and these reads and the hard defense of herc which kinda looks like a chainsaw now i think voting there is a good play

sheeping dead again, this time with a reason that was discussed earlier by iv:

probably scum in Hopkirk/xtoxm/mastina bc innocentvillager isn’t scum

i'll be more interested on the first point if you can find an issue to take with how they interacted around the wagon/their votes specifically

but that was my "first point" lol, the people who jumped onto LLD after hercule got flashwagoned is a little suspicious, which implicates {Hopkirk/xtoxm/mastina/innocentvillager}

you don't think out of hercule's 3 buddies, at least one of them would help try to chainsaw LLD?

his other posts today are basically fluff.

- very little original content
- no depth to the opinions he does provide
- voted luca but otherwise never pushed or mentioned him at all
- showed lack of care about result at eod1, scum indicative due to the wagons being tvt (looking back this was also true of luca to a large degree)
- been coasting just about all game
- play contrasts with v1 where he actually did things

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: Winter Flakes

Seems like a good idea

first: i appreciate the vote
second: you're only clearing the bar set by wf cus he's seriously underwhelming, and because you took a hard stance on d1 but you're more than capable of navigating tvt wagons as scum, please do more

[Xtoxm]

I personally want to resolve the AGar/Hopkirk thing (because it's blatantly obvious they are not Scum together), or the jjh/Titus (which I low-key think can't be Scum together either).

does the uni backup need to claim before you back off from this?
why are you pushing an openly pro-scum agenda?
dann's role was 3 shot.
2 have been used.
one left.
backup neap claims results tomorrow.
one of them is on hop.
hop is mechanically untouchable today.

[Xtoxm]

fuck mech, mY ReADs R bEtTEr
youre fucking terrible

[Xtoxm]

Rich! Is Auro still piloting this game for you or did you decide to play?

auro has never been piloting anything, but you wouldnt know cus you havent been reading my posts
sucks for you it took 190 pages for any of your teammates to open your game
and then clearly not bother reading in any level of detail

im not here to argue fundamental mech with you
eat a yeet and if you flip town go back to the newbie queue

VOTE: agar

[Xtoxm]

Well, who knows? Maybe the Nea wants to check you next. That would be swell for you, right?

Well, who knows? Maybe the Nea wants to check you next. That would be swell for you, right?

Unironically, yes. Since then I won't have to deal with you giving me shit.

nice, guys
very pro town

[Xtoxm]

jjh is going down and down for me this doesnt look like his town game

gut is worried agar is obstinate town
i really hate his play today
people spelled out the mech and bell unvoted
agar doubled down and was like, i dont care
if it walks and quacks like scum...

also why switch from me to agar here after casing me? the vote on agar seems shallow in comparison to your thoughts on me

mhm that post was emotion driven; agar ruffled my scales and i hissed at him. then he didnt respond and hasnt posted since. the emotion has died down but his push on hop today is still out of place.

town!flakes getting voted increases the chances i get active/increases chances of me obvtowning

im a sucker for projected confidence of ability to obvtown but you've had a long god damn time and my patience is just about expired so i'd like to start seeing it.

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: winter

in spite of everything, cant shake the feeling this is coming from town
if he's the desired elim then i will coalesce as i'm not confident in reading agar, and i dont want risk disabling a scum elimination
(auro still wants him deaded...we've had dissonance on this read since d1)

[Xtoxm]

agars was interesting. i like his d1 more than his today

- Dann/Hercule exchange in the 800s - I agree with Dann, I find hercule infinitely scummier.

I am under no circumstances yeeting LLD today.

Preferred yeets {Hercule/Hopkirk}

Ah fuck, I never responded to the Hercule post:

I'm not gonna look up all the posts you quoted without tags (I can't believe I did that last game) but how is "Hercule has dipped out since pressure has seemingly dissipated on him" your take on the last couple days? I dipped out when the pressure on me was explicitly High in order to just take a breather from the game and approach it back with a clear mind

I mean, it was a chunk of 30ish pages to be read and you were just MIA without word which felt like a direct contrast to how you've been present, and I freely admit that I'm really not looking at timestamps on those notes - they're pretty well stream of consciousness reading and typing out thoughts. I do like how that was the one point you honed in on, because that's like... the least consequential of anything I mentioned.

LLD was a counterwagon to hercule, stop trying to reframe history scum.

the highlights for me, in case you were still planning to do that revisit.

[Xtoxm]

THAT is why I want people to say more than "I think..", "It feels.." & "It looks.."

mhm i guess i did that last night, my bad

the other reasons behind that 'feeling' were:
- agar seems to have the most unique reads in the game, such players are frequently eliminated, however, are >rand town ime
- stuck to these views past the point that doing so looked to be suicidal

I think I'll take my time before I decide where to go.

good call, interested to see what you'll come up with

[Xtoxm]

In spite of hercule having a wagon peaking at 7 votes, and AGar hating the LLD counterwagon, he never applied vote pressure onto hercule and never voted Luca, always voting for a wagon other than our flipped scum.

don't feel that's really a fair representation of his play. hercule was in grave danger d1, and he only lived cus a bunch of us scumsided and saved him. agar worked against that, and painted himself into a corner that if someone like lld prodded him about killing hercule his trajectory didn't really offer him a way out.

Why isn't that textbook scum distancing without bussing?

that textbook scum distancing that looks bad when people only look at VCs or ctrl+f votes, without reading his iso in any detail? right.

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: Oka

Here... I'll go first. Who wants in?

i would really rather just kill the wolfiest slot in the game than go deepwolf hunting today
game is starting to feel like the same battle lines being drawn from d1 and i dont like it
but i feel more enthused by this than agar rn
i'll poke auro for a chat abt it or something

[Xtoxm]

i would really rather just kill the wolfiest slot in the game than go deepwolf hunting today

Winter is NOT the wolfiest though. AGar is (despite your town!case for him) followed by Oka. And since everyone seems to have someone in thee PoE that they won't vote I think I'll give Winter my "I'm not voting this today" title.

*sigh*
who in the poe have i refused to vote?
guy has shown zero passion for this game at any point in the month its been running and i think thats really scummy

VOTE: okapoka
didn't like his recent interaction w/ mastina
im still not townreading him by this point of the game and i feel like i should be by now
plus some other reasons that im too ashamed to share

I think this could easily be her having fuck all and pretending

i think this is the case, yeah.

[Xtoxm]

oka talking about me being locktown already makes me feel bad abt this vote
this v1/v2 situation has created a game where everyone is townreading me and i dont know what to do with it
i usually live on the edge of the poe and gauge who's scumread on me is genuine and who's is bullshit
and im worried im 5th impostering again
i should just sheep ceph or something, all of his posting makes me feel good feelings

[Xtoxm]

i know but it was part of list of names with no words attached and it felt less personal than #5100

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: unvote
should have done this when i lost confidence in agar
need a break from this game and reflect on things

[Xtoxm]

I posit an alternative.
Given Mastina's current reads and positions now is probably a good time to eliminate her.
She's never getting night killed and she's going to end up in elo. As either alignment she is going to vote incorrectly and lose us the game.

I'm arguing that I don't want to be in elo with her as either alignment. I'm simply thinking ahead to that. I haven't lost an elo and I don't want to lose one now either.
I felt it possible with support and the expectations placed on her in team mafia that she might have been able to play at her best as scum. That has weakened, but I won't discount it either.

i have quite literally zero interest in a liability elimination
if someone is wrong town things can be worked out
talk about why mastina is SCUM or go away

[Xtoxm]

you mean the thing she said abt jjh when joining the agar wagon?
i felt that you were really stretching with pushing mastina over that tbqh.

the wagon was led 4 players she called strong townreads
agar is her #3 scumread, and the scum are alive
i thought her joining of the wagon was reasonable, given the things she's been saying
i think jjh had 2 votes at the time? so okay not a major wagon. he'd certainly been talked abt as an elim tho, including by me. it seemed like you were making so much of that comment, and ignoring the above.

[Xtoxm]

you mean the thing she said abt jjh when joining the agar wagon?
i felt that you were really stretching with pushing mastina over that tbqh.

the wagon was led 4 players she called strong townreads
agar is her #3 scumread, and there are 3 scum alive
i thought her joining of the wagon was reasonable, given the things she's been saying
i think jjh had 2 votes at the time? so okay not a major wagon. he'd certainly been talked abt as an elim tho, including by me. it seemed like you were making so much of that comment, and ignoring the above.

EBWOP

im all over the place today and shouldnt be posting. >.<
but i saw bell's bad takes and had to step in.

[Xtoxm]

i explicitly want to go for easier targets today, myself, so..
you're king of the roost on post count and there are several underwhelming slots i think are better elims today.
much of her poe has matched up with mine - and i think having you in there is reasonable given that ive been unable to town read you.
the main differences have been her jjh, titus townreads, and then the ordering of the remaining poe.

p-ed
mhm well you are evidentely a viable wagon now, and she keeps talking abt you being her #1 prefered elim, so this is her chance.

[Xtoxm]

can you paraphrase more of the lilith and ss stuff?
since you have no new opinions on the main wagons since the last 700 posts

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: bell

that paraphrased chat is ridiculously concise, its not what town chat look like.
gets asked about a read and quotes something he said 2 weeks ago, that seems really weird to me. why not go into talking about your read. surely town would have some kind of nuance to it in that amount of time.
he's had a weak day phase in general.

would also be down to ignore the fake soft, i think jjh is scum.

[Xtoxm]

thnx 4 feedback
more bell votes

[Xtoxm]

if you make me pick between bell and mastina i don't know what i'll do

the narrative intrigue we play mafia for :3

[Xtoxm]

basically like hop said, the convo has no flow, or fluff to it
and it goes back all the way to the beginning of d3
its such a small amt of content for that amt of time, and for someone that keeps talking abt how he has a team helping him and asking why others arent talking abt teammates
lilith loves talking way more than that
it looks nothing like the convos im having with auro
it looks like a scum convo after you remove all the stuff you cant paraphrase in a town way to remove the perspective of scum talking to a scum teammate

[Xtoxm]

a lot of people suspect jjh but mastina is hard shielding him so lets go to d4 and find out if thats all bullshit
i have a fear that mastina is town with a townread on scum and the mech softing is fake which will take her down with him but
WE WILL SEE.

[Xtoxm]

why?

[Xtoxm]

thats all? you think it cant be done?

[Xtoxm]

im vibe checking jjh rn
you wanna cfd or not

[Xtoxm]

guess not
bell is fine
i go sleep now buh bye

[Xtoxm]

these eods are pog