Mini Theme 2217 | Owner's market blitz | Over

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Sup homies


I’m town.

Nancy will be around to make this slot obviously town because she loves doing that.

Also I can’t believe Alisae roped me into playing this game and immediately repped out

Wild stuff

[Smoke and Mirrors]

And you think I wouldn't act this way as a villager because?

You're trying to grab control of the game and thread out of the gate, theres no reason why a villager wouldn't try this, but there's every reason for scum to try it.

you're stupid

Flea is awesome, fae being in any game is always a major draw for me.

This is Nancy (aka Mirrors) btw.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

alisae is being way too annoying to be mo

unfortunately hes probably townt

Yeah I think so, also Gamma’s ISO also seemed pretty townie. I haven’t yet talked to Pooky about any mech stuff and probably won’t be commenting on it until I do. He does understand mech things, which is why I let him totally handle all if it in Pokemon Battles.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hi Nancy. <3

I'm gonna locktown you right now. Not for any reason mind you, just 'cuz I'm kinda desperate to call

someone

locktown and calling the slots that are pleasant folks I enjoy thoroughly locktown is as good a metric to use as anything else.

So my readslist right now looks something like:

Smoke and Mirrors
Flea the Magician
Mistyx
Gamma Emerald

(literally all other slots)

Hey Mastina

I agree with this list and thanks for the compliment. <3

I think you might be too based off of tone.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

remember only one person can bid with them self's right now town should work together there are more of us then scum . so 4 of us bid 500 on one item each day in order for scum to get any role they will have to out bid us . scum will have not enough money to bid high day 2 to beat us. as they will all be left with 300 . but we would still have 6 with 500. . so then if town . just bids 325 on day 2 we get every role. so whos up for trying this

yes, town need to work together and figure ut the best strategy.. but all ining on it seems a bit bad unless if its super important. (like cop and doc)

alisae made me realize that some items might not be as useful as i think they are, but i still stand strong that we've got to at least have some

tiny

shot at something, and not allow the less important powers to stack up on a player or 2, that seems very bad for us.

i disagree that is very good for scum means a kill cant be stoped. plus scum have 300 more then us so if your thinking doc helps here . over hitman your wrong . i count this post as scum trying to fool town in to letting scum get what they want.

i think alisaes just a player that very much like control and things to go their way, idk if its scum indicative, but it did make me feel weird about the slot.

-

that sub out was sad, but hi hi gamma emerald!

It’s probably more town indicative for Alisae actually. I don’t see e going out of eir way to piss off most of the playerlist as scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Now my problem is last time I played a game with a weird mechanic like this, I tried to lightningrod the bad for town roles and got my ass firmly handed to me

By lightning rod do you mean you tried to obtain the roles or you tried to get targeted by them? And what do you mean by got your ass firmly handed to you? You got miselimmed, endgamed, or what?

Have you learned something from that experience you think might not be intuitive in this setup?

HEAL: Flea

You lose my support!

Can you explain why you healed Alisae in the first place and then how you chose who to switch to? With most everyone else self-healing, it stands out as unusual to me. Scum want to control the market so this looks to me like healing alisae for such a brief time is a cover for getting your heal onto another player without drawing suspicion later on a scum!Flea flip

VOTE: VFP

HEAL: Smoke and MirrorsHEAL:

I could probably throw Gamma, Flea Mystix, Mastina and possibly Marci in there. I’m still unsure exactly what is going on mech wise because Pooky can’t get on discord due to IP issues but possibly leaning to maybe vote Flea. for MO?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

HEAL: Smoke and Mirrors

others will be added in direct proportion to my figuring out the mech stuff.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Yeah real life got in the way.

VFP seems quite town to me, personally. He has been quite helpful and just generally smelled town.

I’m town.

I don't like this.

Why not? So we’re scum for speaking the truth?

Any seasoned mafia player should - if they have no meta on a particular player, read something like that as NIA.

I find it curious that you read that post as AI at all, since I’m assuming you don’t know either of us?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Sup homies


I’m town.

Nancy will be around to make this slot obviously town because she loves doing that.

Also I can’t believe Alisae roped me into playing this game and immediately repped out

Wild stuff

@Kitty Tacky, do me a favour please. The next time you decide to shade one of my or Pooky’s posts, please do us the courtesy of actually quoting the entire thing and not chopping the part of it that puts it into context. Thanks.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hello everyone, I didn't play with any of you because I mostly played normals. VOTE: Alisae

Alright I was busy during the start of the thread, will post more later.

Yeah real life got in the way.

VFP seems quite town to me, personally. He has been quite helpful and just generally smelled town.

I’m town.

I don't like this.

@Gamma, I don’t understand the point of any of their posts so far.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

votecount 1.7

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (1) - Distance
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (1) KittyTacky
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Flea The Magician (0)
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (1) Flea The Magician
imaginality (2) ssbm_Kyouko ; Cyrus62
marcistar (0)
Distance (2) Marcistar ; Gamma Emerald
VFP (0)

not voting (5) - Everyone else

day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-21 02:12:49)

Marketplace owner

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (1) - Smoke And Mirrors
Cupcake Butterfly (2) - Cupcake Butterfly ; Imaginality
ssbm_Kyouko (4) ssbm_Kyouko ; distance ; Gamma Emerald ; Mistyx
Flea The Magician (3) - Flea The Magician ; VFP ; Mastina
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (0)
imaginality (0)
marcistar (0)
Distance (0)
VFP (1) - Cyrus62

Please vote vote for the marketplace owner with HEAL: tags

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Cop - the top bet during the mid point is 125

2-shot Doctor - the top bet during the mid point is 125

1-shot Hitman - the top bet during the mid point is 125

1-shot Roleblocker - the top bet during the mid point is 125

I voted to heal us, not to throw our hat in the ring for MO. Is that not possible?

Ftr, I don’t want to be MO because Pooky is currently having internet issues abd I really don’t understand the setup well enough.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

Are you going to bother to explain this or is it still because of that one line you plucked out of that post and deleted the context?

And are you also going to explain either A) why you did that and B) why it makes us scum?

Continuing to shade a slot without any explanation os making me think VFP might possibly be right about you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Cool., you probably are scum then.

VOTE: KittyTacky

Again, no explanation for either this vote or previous sketchy shade.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Bedtime here (NZ). Back in 7hrs.
HEAL: Cupcake Butterfly - I don't want ssbm as MO, I think Cupcake is a better pick than Flea. I'd go for Flea if it's still between Flea or ssbm closer to day end though.

Can you explain why?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

Did you recently send me an extremely lovely pm? Because if that was you, then I really hope you’re town because I’d probably be extremely sad if you weren’t.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why to which? I prefer Cupcake for MO because I feel more confident in my town read on Cupcake than on Flea and as mentioned I see alignment as the main priority for choosing an MO.

If it comes down to a two-horse race I'd prefer Flea over ssbm for MO because I've been leaning scum on ssbm.

Albeit, ssbm's recent posting has come across better to me than the earlier posts.

Apparently I know who CB is but I still haven’t figured it out yet. I rely heavily on making meta reads and I obviously do know who Flea is. I will ISO CB.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

CB could be town, they’re doing a lot of questioning which tends to be town indicative. I’m okay with them being MO.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Has anyone considered Misty for MO? @Mistyx do you even want to be?

I strongly tr that slot and she does seem to understand the setup. If Misty is interested, I’d consider voting there.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

votecount 1.7

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (1) - Distance
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (1) KittyTacky
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Flea The Magician (0)
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (1) Flea The Magician
imaginality (2) ssbm_Kyouko ; Cyrus62
marcistar (0)
Distance (2) Marcistar ; Gamma Emerald
VFP (0)

not voting (5) - Everyone else

day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-21 02:12:49)

Marketplace owner

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (1) - Smoke And Mirrors
Cupcake Butterfly (2) - Cupcake Butterfly ; Imaginality
ssbm_Kyouko (4) ssbm_Kyouko ; distance ; Gamma Emerald ; Mistyx
Flea The Magician (3) - Flea The Magician ; VFP ; Mastina
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (0)
imaginality (0)
marcistar (0)
Distance (0)
VFP (1) - Cyrus62

Please vote vote for the marketplace owner with HEAL: tags

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Cop - the top bet during the mid point is 125

2-shot Doctor - the top bet during the mid point is 125

1-shot Hitman - the top bet during the mid point is 125

1-shot Roleblocker - the top bet during the mid point is 125

@mod, how much time left to decide all of this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Distance why did you vote for Kitty?

You think they’re town? I’m asking myself if they’re really scummy town and tstbs or actually just scum. I have pretty much hated all of their posts so far.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

They who?

I was referring to Kitty.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Also @mod, the light green doesn’t show very well on mafsilver.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

day 1 ends in 0 days, 4 hours, 4 minutes

@s&m

Oh wow, I guess it’s too late for Misty then. :/

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I asked because I wanted to know why Distance quoted that post when voting Kitty.

I don't think Kitty's town. Of the people with votes on them in the above vote count, Kitty and ssbm are the only two I lean scum on. I was hoping to get more posts from Kitty (also Distance though they seem to actually be looking for scum). But activity seems slow and deadline isn't far away and I'm at work right now so I'm going to accept my ssbm case isn't winning hearts and minds today, and VOTE: Kitty

I really don’t have a read on them yet. I think MO should probably either be Flea or CB then.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

votecount 1.7

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (1) - Distance
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (1) KittyTacky
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Flea The Magician (0)
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (1) Flea The Magician
imaginality (2) ssbm_Kyouko ; Cyrus62
marcistar (0)
Distance (2) Marcistar ; Gamma Emerald
VFP (0)

not voting (5) - Everyone else

day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-21 02:12:49)

Marketplace owner

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (1) - Smoke And Mirrors
Cupcake Butterfly (2) - Cupcake Butterfly ; Imaginality
ssbm_Kyouko (4) ssbm_Kyouko ; distance ; Gamma Emerald ; Mistyx
Flea The Magician (3) - Flea The Magician ; VFP ; Mastina
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (0)
imaginality (0)
marcistar (0)
Distance (0)
VFP (1) - Cyrus62

Please vote vote for the marketplace owner with HEAL: tags

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Cop - the top bet during the mid point is 125

2-shot Doctor - the top bet during the mid point is 125

1-shot Hitman - the top bet during the mid point is 125

1-shot Roleblocker - the top bet during the mid point is 125

@mod, how much time left to decide all of this?

Looking at this VC, it looks like it’s basically a two horse race between Flea and Kyuku. I’m not opposed to CB but if I vote for CB then probably Kyuku becomes MO because I don’t expect CB to get enough votes in under 4 hours to beat either of them.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

HEAL: Flea

If enough votes on CB happen, I can switch.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why do you NOT want Kyouko?

I don’t know, I guess they’re also fine. I don’t really understand Imaginality’s sr on them.

HEAL: Kyuku

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I’m fine with any of those 3.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

.-.

I think Mastina’s town and she voted Flea and I tr Flea more but Kyyuko seems to really have a handle on it so I don’t know. It doesn’t help that I haven’t gotten an opinion from Pooky on this and probably won’t before deadline.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

.-.

I think Mastina’s town and she voted Flea and I tr Flea more but Kyyuko seems to really have a handle on it so I don’t know. It doesn’t help that I haven’t gotten an opinion from Pooky on this and probably won’t before deadline.

What makes you say mastina is town? I got bad vibes off the bat but realized it could just be stylistic. I tried to find games of hers to look at but most of her ego is not games she's played in. Found one town game way toward the bottom and saw she posts like this as town so it's a big null for me right now

Mastina tends to be distant and aloof as scum, here she is warm, engaging and enthusiastic.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Mastina’s entire ISO townpings me. Very off the cuff, no agenda in any of her posts, etc. I lean town on her. She’s also extremely genuine.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

Are you going to bother to explain this or is it still because of that one line you plucked out of that post and deleted the context?

And are you also going to explain either A) why you did that and B) why it makes us scum?

Continuing to shade a slot without any explanation os making me think VFP might possibly be right about you.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Cool., you probably are scum then.

VOTE: KittyTacky

Again, no explanation for either this vote or previous sketchy shade.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

@Kitty Tacky are you just going to ignore my posts indefinitely?

When do you plan on actually responding to this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i think distance being confrontational out of the gate is >rand town

VOTE: VFP
HEAL: Mistyx

idk what the current vc is but this is where im leaning

i dont think VFP has really done anything towny and didnt like their handling of gamma post rep in

I’d switch to this if we can get enough votes in the amount of time left.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i think distance being confrontational out of the gate is >rand town

VOTE: VFP
HEAL: Mistyx

idk what the current vc is but this is where im leaning

i dont think VFP has really done anything towny and didnt like their handling of gamma post rep in

I’d switch to this if we can get enough votes in the amount of time left.

The Mistyx vote not the VFP one. Kitty is being so off the charts scummy, I can’t see unvoting that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Yeah real life got in the way.

VFP seems quite town to me, personally. He has been quite helpful and just generally smelled town.

I’m town.

I don't like this.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

I am not backing off of you until you explain any of this? Your VFP tr based on being “helpful” is about as useful as that butchered post of Pooky’s you gave as a reason for voting us and Distance has very clearly been sorting, so another totally dafuq read.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Have more time now.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

I am comfortable saying so because in my past games townies had a very similar tone and played similarly. Maybe this logic is flawed?

What “similar” tone and how did they play “similarly”?

Similar to freaking what exactly? I want specifics and if you don’t satisfactorily answer my questions, I’m never unvoting you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Have more time now.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

I am comfortable saying so because in my past games townies had a very similar tone and played similarly. Maybe this logic is flawed?

Kitty has “more time” but almost an entire hour has gone by and she hasn’t satisfactorily explained anything.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If Kitty is actually town here, I’ll eat LLD’s hat.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

alisae is being way too annoying to be mo

unfortunately hes probably townt

what ive gathered from this is that cyrus is stupid town

No offence to cyrus but how are you sr this @Kitty?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Am I the only one who’s aware of the fact “n’t” is sometimes tacked onto random words to flip their meaning

Where was this used and what exactly does it mean?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I’m not certain it was meant that way but 78 could be that just lacking the punctuation

unfortunately hes probably townt

I think it’s just a typo. I frequently have to edit what I say in Discord because somehow, I usually wind up accidentally putting a “n” after a post.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Am I the only one who’s aware of the fact “n’t” is sometimes tacked onto random words to flip their meaning

I’m not certain it was meant that way but 78 could be that just lacking the punctuation

i am but 78 read like a typo

And it really wouldn’t even make sense to use “nt” in that particular context regardless. Occams razor says it’s almost certainly a typo.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@mod can we have an updated VC please?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

votecount 1.execution

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (4) - Distance, Smoke and Mirrors, Imaginality, Gamma Emerald
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (1) KittyTacky,
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (0)
Flea The Magician (0)
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (1) Flea The Magician
imaginality (1) Cyrus62
marcistar (0)
Distance (1) Marcistar
VFP (2) Mistyx ; ssbm_Kyouko

not voting (5) - Everyone else
[/b]

KittyTacky has been executed ! They were...

Spoiler:

Mafia Goon !

Night 1 starts now and ends in (expired on 2021-06-23 02:14:45)

I think Kitty wagon was all town and Mastina was obviously right on Flea, so this game should probably not be too hard to solve.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I dont think flea would have doctored me if fae had won it so I'll just assume it was a setup of some kind

I thought Flea bid on cop?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Searching a replcament for Mistyx

kinda busy rn, but i'll edit it an EoD VC when i can, sorry for the trouble

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Nancy be town

also I'm a bird,

hint

How am I not? I did the exact same thing in Happy Face. The only difference is that it was Pooky who realized that Bell was scum and convinced me, this time it was me who figured it out. (HINT: Mastina, for future paragon noms).

I’m not understanding the bird thing?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think S&M hydra is probably confirmed town now right?

Elaborate, because I'm not following this.

Why are scum going to lim their own when they can lim else where regardless if that player is going to get the chop?
There's no credit expected in those situations because as you said, they get caught soon.

It's also the fact Kitty had 4 votes to my 2.
So unless as I said me and Gamma are the last scum or both scum were already voting me (doubtful) there's no harm to move over and try to get the swap over.

I agree, scum have no reason cannibalizing D1 when the heat could've easily diverted to 4 other players with votes: VFP, Cyrus, Imaginality, S&M. There must be

at least

2 town in this group since Kitty is the first scum.

So

{S&M/Distance/Imaginality/Gamma Emerald}

probably has 1 scum

at maximum

.

{Kyouko/Cyrus/VFP/Marci/Mastina/Misty}

to have at least 1 scum, and maybe both.

I'm not giving an opinion about Kyouko until they answer my inquiries.
Cyrus seems very open about his thought process but I can't really see much depth to his thought.
VFP surface-level is using PoE and deductive reasoning to hone in his focus, while also mirroring a faithful take on Kyouko's boost - did not care much for D1 play but I read Flea/VFP as the same alignment initially, and I'm sticking to that as town for the moment.
Hard to actually read Misty slot since a rep is coming.
Mastina is absent.
Marci is vague.

Seriously what are you basing this on? Why do you think Kitty wagon can’t be all town? I’m not saying it’s impossible but why are you so confident it’s a bus?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Nancy be town

also I'm a bird,

hint

I would seriously like to understand what you think I’ve said that wasn’t town indicative? Like normally I’d read something like this and think it absolutely has to come from town but you doubting me here makes no sense. What could I possibly have said that could have even remotely pinged you?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

No one should be claiming what they did and didn't get.

We haven’t yet but why not?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Nancy be town

also I'm a bird,

hint

How am I not? I did the exact same thing in Happy Face. The only difference is that it was Pooky who realized that Bell was scum and convinced me, this time it was me who figured it out. (HINT: Mastina, for future paragon noms).

I’m not understanding the bird thing?

I'm giving you a hint to my main, Nancy!

You know what, nevermind, I don't know why you would shade a partner so hard in 385 and 388 after an unexplained vote lmfao

I just don't understand why Kitty-scum fixates on you, but I can't illuminate that now. Should've been more active pre-plurality.

Only one comes to mind is Tweetie and you really don’t sound like her so idk. Kitty was making reads that made absolutely no sense based on completely surface nonsensical reasoning. Af first I seriously considered the possibility that he was just tstbs but when he popped back into the thread claiming to have time and still refused to answer any of my questions, I think it was beyond obvious.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Have more time now.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

I am comfortable saying so because in my past games townies had a very similar tone and played similarly. Maybe this logic is flawed?

Kitty was basically claiming that he couldn’t make decent reads due to a lack of time and being busy then he still does nothing.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

No one should be claiming what they did and didn't get.

We haven’t yet but why not?

@VFP I’d really like to know why you think this is bad?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

DON'T SAY YOUR GUESS NOW. JUST KNOW.

ALSO I'M TERRIBLE AT KEEPING THINGS HIDDEN HEHEHEHEHE

OMG! I absolutely know who this is now. <3

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Have more time now.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

I am comfortable saying so because in my past games townies had a very similar tone and played similarly. Maybe this logic is flawed?

This is interesting since Flea flipped town but I’m not confident on VFP town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

DON'T SAY YOUR GUESS NOW. JUST KNOW.

ALSO I'M TERRIBLE AT KEEPING THINGS HIDDEN HEHEHEHEHE

OMG! I absolutely know who this is now. <3

EEEEEEEEEE!

is your enthusiasm AI because now I want to towbloc with you trshegawrfhrge

I not only love playing town, I love getting a scumflip d1, so I was so happy when I saw that flip.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Yeah real life got in the way.

VFP seems quite town to me, personally. He has been quite helpful and just generally smelled town.

I’m town.

I don't like this.

Regardless of whatever VFP is, this reason for tr him was absolute shit.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Weekend stuff.

UNVOTE: Gamma

Kitty may be scum for multiple reasons. I'll think when I'm on.

Were you not aware of the deadline?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Weekend stuff.

UNVOTE: Gamma

Kitty may be scum for multiple reasons. I'll think when I'm on.

Were you not aware of the deadline?

This post doesn’t inspire me with confidence because it’s easy to shade a buddy but not vote them.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

What is this non-vote on Misty for?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Kitty-VFP-Gamma has crossed my mind but what do you think about the defense of that here?

Unless the scum team is exactly me, Gamma, and Kitty, scum Gamma has no reason to stay on Kitty instead of moving over to me.

I hard tr Alisae because eir pretty decent as scum, so e looked like over eager town to me. I think Gamma is pretty obviously town here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gamma
Mastina
Distance
Misty

I think are all town. My read hasn’t changed on Misty but the replace out is the only reason she’s not #1. I will probably put her back there once I see the replacement.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was about to take credit for making scum crumble!
Then I realised my vote didn't go through.

Where did you vote Kitty? I couldn’t find a post where you voted or tried to.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I can’t help but wonder if Flea was killed for bidding cop or to confirm VFP.

I just can’t help thinking there’s possible associatives between those two.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was about to take credit for making scum crumble!
Then I realised my vote didn't go through.

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

Hmmm . . .

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was about to take credit for making scum crumble!
Then I realised my vote didn't go through.

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

Hmmm . . .

@VFP I would think that if your alleged vote on Kitty didn’t actually go through, you would have either made it a point of correctly voting Misty or clarifying that it wasn’t a real vote but a placeholder. It would be an extremely strange vote even if it was real but this makes me think, you’re trying to convince us that you really did vote for Kitty when you didn’t.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Btw iso'ing Flea, unless the scumteam is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus not to pull such a n00bscum move, I'm thinking Flea was killed because the scumteam thought Flea was either a role or because the scumteam thought Flea was just that obvtown and were threatened by faer. (As far as I can tell, Flea gave suspicion to only cyrus and maybe imaginality. So the possibilities are; either cyrus is scum and killed Flea as the main threat to him and wasn't told to not do this by his scumbuddy, or Flea wasn't killed for faer reads, leaving the possibilities as "pr hunt" or "threat due to Flea being Flea".)

If it is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus better, then the most likely option would be VFP (tho I suppose marcistar would be possible).

If it is someone who thought Flea was a threat in general and/or Flea was a PR, I'd say it's Cupcake Butterfly + VFP (tho I suppose marcistar's possible if marcistar has played with Flea before).

POE-wise that'd imply to me that VFP is scum regardless tho, so I guess back to here;
VOTE: VFP

Am open to other thoughts here tho.

VOTE: VFP

I think you’re right and the fake vote on Misty looks extremely sus to me, especially after claiming his Kitty vote didn’t go through.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

No one should be claiming what they did and didn't get.

I really don’t understand this. I think it’s protown. We also unsuccessfully tried to get cop.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Btw iso'ing Flea, unless the scumteam is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus not to pull such a n00bscum move, I'm thinking Flea was killed because the scumteam thought Flea was either a role or because the scumteam thought Flea was just that obvtown and were threatened by faer. (As far as I can tell, Flea gave suspicion to only cyrus and maybe imaginality. So the possibilities are; either cyrus is scum and killed Flea as the main threat to him and wasn't told to not do this by his scumbuddy, or Flea wasn't killed for faer reads, leaving the possibilities as "pr hunt" or "threat due to Flea being Flea".)

If it is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus better, then the most likely option would be VFP (tho I suppose marcistar would be possible).

If it is someone who thought Flea was a threat in general and/or Flea was a PR, I'd say it's Cupcake Butterfly + VFP (tho I suppose marcistar's possible if marcistar has played with Flea before).

POE-wise that'd imply to me that VFP is scum regardless tho, so I guess back to here;
VOTE: VFP

Am open to other thoughts here tho.

The cop bid may have been a reason but Kitty only had 4 reads and the 2 trs, one of them died.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

votecount 1.execution

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (4) - Distance, Smoke and Mirrors, Imaginality, Gamma Emerald
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (1) KittyTacky,
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (0)
Flea The Magician (0)
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (1) Flea The Magician
imaginality (1) Cyrus62
marcistar (0)
Distance (1) Marcistar
VFP (2) Mistyx ; ssbm_Kyouko

not voting (5) - Everyone else
[/b]

KittyTacky has been executed ! They were...

Spoiler:

Mafia Goon !

Night 1 starts now and ends in (expired on 2021-06-23 02:14:45)

VFP was probably next, so my theory is that Flea was killed to confirm him town but the bizarro votes/vote claims are the most sus. There is absolutely no evidence that VFP ever voted Kitty but he then botching a vote on Misty (no explanation nor attempt to fix it either) makes me think, VFP is very likely scum here.

If VFP flips scum, Kyuku is also likely town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Btw iso'ing Flea, unless the scumteam is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus not to pull such a n00bscum move, I'm thinking Flea was killed because the scumteam thought Flea was either a role or because the scumteam thought Flea was just that obvtown and were threatened by faer. (As far as I can tell, Flea gave suspicion to only cyrus and maybe imaginality. So the possibilities are; either cyrus is scum and killed Flea as the main threat to him and wasn't told to not do this by his scumbuddy, or Flea wasn't killed for faer reads, leaving the possibilities as "pr hunt" or "threat due to Flea being Flea".)

If it is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus better, then the most likely option would be VFP (tho I suppose marcistar would be possible).

If it is someone who thought Flea was a threat in general and/or Flea was a PR, I'd say it's Cupcake Butterfly + VFP (tho I suppose marcistar's possible if marcistar has played with Flea before).

POE-wise that'd imply to me that VFP is scum regardless tho, so I guess back to here;
VOTE: VFP

Am open to other thoughts here tho.

To explain this, there exists only two possible worlds for Flea's death:
Flea was killed for faer reads;
Flea was not killed for faer reads.

In the former case, Flea's only read as far as I can tell was cyrus as scum. If Flea was killed for faer reads, this would necessitate cyrus being scum. However, for cyrus to make a kill on Flea for faer reads, when cyrus is fairly n00bscum, requires that cyrus's scumbuddy not disapprove of this tactic. The most likely player to not disapprove is VFP.

In the latter case, we subdivide into two worlds:
Flea was killed for scum suspecting Flea was one of the PRs bidden for during the day;
Flea was killed for scum fearing Flea as a town player, beit their skill in general or them being seen as town or something along these lines.

As it so happens, in both subdivided worlds I would expect the player to make this sort of kill to be the same person, Cupcake Butterfly.
I would expect the player most likely to back the kill off of that reason to be VFP.

Admittedly, this is after factoring in my prior deductions. Of the wagon on scum being all town, of ssbm being town, of MistyX being town. Meaning the pool is limited to 4 people from the getgo.

If MistyX flaked from the game overnight, it is possible for MistyX to be a missing-overnight scumbuddy, for instance, fitting into both the cyrus-scumbuddy world and the killed-for-threat-scumbuddy world. But I think her slot is town, soooo...

She also tr Distance and voted VFP, so don’t understand the replace out but if VFP is scum, I think both votes on them are probably town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Kitty-VFP-Gamma has crossed my mind but what do you think about the defense of that here?

Unless the scum team is exactly me, Gamma, and Kitty, scum Gamma has no reason to stay on Kitty instead of moving over to me.

Why Gamma? You seriously think scum!Alisae enters a game blatantly trying to piss off most of the playerlist then reps out?

Since when is Alisae this terrible at scum?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@CB, you having Gamma in your PoE really worries me because you are not a noob, so how could you not know that Alisae is not only decent at playing scum, e’s one of the few people who actually love playing it?

If it weren’t for that Misty vote, I might be inclined to think Flea kill was a frame up.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

UNVOTE:

for now. CB having Gamma in their Poe is really pinging.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So that leaves (removing Cyrus as I think town).

Mastina

Cupcake

Mistyx

marci

Let me re-ISO Marci because I didn’t recall getting scumpings from her.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Wow and I thought I was off the walls. I have 500 again can you guise why.

Your bid failed?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Marci’s a null for me rn.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

DON'T SAY YOUR GUESS NOW. JUST KNOW.

ALSO I'M TERRIBLE AT KEEPING THINGS HIDDEN HEHEHEHEHE

OMG! I absolutely know who this is now. <3

EEEEEEEEEE!

is your enthusiasm AI because now I want to towbloc with you trshegawrfhrge

my two guesses were pooky and noraa then i realize pooky is in the hydra *whistling*

He’s having internet issues which sucks for me because I’m not good at mech and he is,

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

This vote is bad - regardless if it’s real or fake and no explanation for it either.

VOTE: VFP

I also don’t understand why you’re telling people not to claim.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Idk did you start with 500 yea
Didn't you say you bidder 125 on each item day1 wow looks like you lost on all 4.

I didn’t say anything other than we lost on cop. Pooky bid only on cop.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

No one should be claiming what they did and didn't get.

We haven’t yet but why not?

No one should be claiming what they did and didn't get.

We haven’t yet but why not?

@VFP I’d really like to know why you think this is bad?

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I can’t help but wonder if Flea was killed for bidding cop or to confirm VFP.

I just can’t help thinking there’s possible associatives between those two.

No one should be claiming what they did and didn't get.

I really don’t understand this. I think it’s protown. We also unsuccessfully tried to get cop.

Wow and I thought I was off the walls. I have 500 again can you guise why.

Your bid failed?

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

This vote is bad - regardless if it’s real or fake and no explanation for it either.

VOTE: VFP

I also don’t understand why you’re telling people not to claim.

Idk did you start with 500 yea
Didn't you say you bidder 125 on each item day1 wow looks like you lost on all 4.

I didn’t say anything other than we lost on cop. Pooky bid only on cop.

@cyrus, these were all of our posts regarding the bids, so I don’t understand what you’re talking about.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was about to take credit for making scum crumble!
Then I realised my vote didn't go through.

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

Hmmm . . .

@VFP I would think that if your alleged vote on Kitty didn’t actually go through, you would have either made it a point of correctly voting Misty or clarifying that it wasn’t a real vote but a placeholder. It would be an extremely strange vote even if it was real but this makes me think, you’re trying to convince us that you really did vote for Kitty when you didn’t.

They replaced so I was waiting.
But was has Kitty got to do with me voing Misty?

VOTE: VFP

I think you’re right and the fake vote on Misty looks extremely sus to me, especially after claiming his Kitty vote didn’t go through.

No, I was talking about my vote on Misty, not Kitty...

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12761020

For some reason this doesn’t show up correctly any other way but it’s clear from Happy Face that you know how to use vote tags, so if your vote on Kitty really didn’t go through, why didn’t you just use vote tags?

I just checked and if you use vote tags it actually shows up as a vote. It just seemed like you made a fake vote on Misty to maybe make it look like you made one on Kitty but there is no post where you voted him and if you had actually used vote tags, your vote on Misty would be showing up. So I just would think you would check your vote on Misty to make sure it actually registered. It’s not a good vote regardless since Misty repped out and hadn’t done anything scummy prior to replacing out.

However, I would have unvoted if you just decided to fix our explain it but I just accused you of making a fake vote and instead of addressing that, you just talk about Kitty.

If someone said that to me, I’d ask them why they said it and either fix or explain my vote but you completely didn’t address it. Why not?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

VOTE: voteVOTE:

vs.

VOTE: vote

See the difference? I used a capital and a lowercase v like you did, then actual vote tags.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Vfp is e-1 btw:

Cyrus, mastina, s&m, distance, marci, by my count

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You tried to stop the Kitty wagon and are not interested in voting VFP today. Interesting.

UNVOTE:

Since he’s at E-1 I’m going to wait a bit. I’m not really a fan of Kyuku trying to stop the Kitty wagon and seemingly suddenly having no interest in voting VFP today.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

Oh nm I think I was looking at VFP's tally in MO not in VC

I think S&M hydra is probably confirmed town now right?

I was actually curious if anyone has seen Nancy Drew bus before, wanted to take a look at that possibility (I think that was all the Nancy Drew head)

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I had a sneaking suspicion Noraa was bussing in my last game with her, and she turned out to be town. I have the same sneaking suspicion here, though I was more confident in Noraa town than I am in this hydra at present.

I dont think flea would have doctored me if fae had won it so I'll just assume it was a setup of some kind

I thought Flea bid on cop?

I didn't get this impression, but it seems like there are several references to Flea bidding on cop as I was catching up. Did fae crumb it or something and I didn't notice?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You surmised a reality that Kitty was town, how does their scumflip affect your reads?

125+300 is 425. I think cyrus is here as scum to buy something for 425

I'm failing to see the leap of logic where Cyrus bids 425, did you mention it in a previous post?

Thanks for the unlock boss.

I enhanced 1-shot BP and the three 2-shots that were rolled. I did not enhance the 1-shot AD, was going to enhance that for tomorrow's auction

Were there any roles you weren't going to entertain boosting at all?

1. My assessment of the situation yesterday was that scum was taking advantage of plurality and the eminent deadline to squeeze through a lynch on a lurking townie that would give no info to town. Because of that I was interested in eliminating just about anyone else, and when I saw Misty, who I was lightly townleaning, vote VFP, a player I was scumleaning so close to deadline, I saw opportunity. I tried to get Gamma onto VFP and luckily he did not swap as Kitty ended up being scum. My reads on the players on the wagon are similar to yours, mastina's, VFP's: I think most likely they are all town. There is potential one player on the wagon was bussing, but I am not convinced and if there is a busser there, it is not Distance. To be clear I am not trying to say you mastina and VFP all feel exactly the same as I do re: that wagon, just that I think my thoughts on it are similar to yours.

2. Cyrus admitted to bidding 125 on each of the 4 roles, and the midday auction provided evidence to corroborate that. I was suspicious as to why he was hanging around so close to deadline when he seemed to not be invested in changing the current MO or Elim wagons. The only reason left to be around at deadline, imo, was to bid at the deadline. However, Cyrus' money should have already been spent if he were town. This lead me to believe he could plausibly be scum waiting to spend his remaining 300 dogecoin on increasing one of his bids. 125+300 =425, so to outbid scum!cyrus I had to spend 426. I went back and forth trying to decide whether to buy roleblock or hitman and decided that if I could get hitman it would be best. It would force scum to deal with the doctor WIFOM or to outbid town on doctor which is a big cash sink for them. This is why I claimed for the doctor my exact bid so they would have the info necessary to decide if they wanted to doc me or protect me via wifom and either save a shot last night, or doc someone else. I also felt that by buying hitman it would increase the value of the doctor and the BP I Enhanced for my successor. Unfortunately BP is the one role I enhanced that did not make it, but it turned out to not matter because I am still alive.

3. off the top of my head, dayvig, hitman, godfather, ninja. Dont remember the other scum roles if there are any. I initially was going to send in 2-shot tracker instead of 2-shot gravedigger but again thought gravedigger would be very helpful for sorting out potential fakeclaims in the upcoming days.

If I had to take a blind guess of blind guesses, it'd be VFP + Cupcake Butterfly but I've got literally zero logic for this.

VOTE: VFP

HEAL: Smoke and Mirrors

I believe MO is permanent once it has been decided D1 or?

You must've had an instinct to place Marci and Cyrus as town, if not a VFP/Me team. How?

MO is permanent until I die but I can name my replacement in my PT at any point up until my death, so if people want to express support for my successor I will take it into consideration. No promises I'll change it though.

I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I actually caught scum and you tried to save them.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Could the team actually be Kitty/VFP/Kyuku?

Or is VFP a miselim?

Fascinating that Kyuku completely lost her sr on VFP today and shaded me for catching scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't get the argument?
Because I mis typed while on phone I'm lying about making a vote?

To make it clear, I did not vote Kitty and I'm not saying I attempted to.

I am saying I missed 1 character from the Misty vote.
I'm not sure what the scum benefit to show my interest of voting Misty while not is there.
I can be scum in your PoV, but let's not pretend that me missing "/" is alignment indicated in anyway possible.

I also think I self vote at E1 there with hope that lack of bids go through as scum?

I unvoted because I don’t trust flash wagons on principle and Kyuku shading me is very strange and why did she vote you instead of Kitty and suddenly express no interest in voting you today?

And she was clearly hoping to get you elimed > Kitty but suddenly her sr on you completely vanished. Something is really off about that.

VOTE: Kyuku

I’m not tr you but Kyyuku is pinging me, so not yet sure where my vote will go.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Searching a replcament for Mistyx

kinda busy rn, but i'll edit it an EoD VC when i can, sorry for the trouble

votecount 2.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (0)
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (0)
imaginality (0)
marcistar (0)
Distance (0)
VFP (5) - Mastina - Distance - Smoke And Mirrors - marcistar - Cyrus62

not voting (6) - Everyone else

day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-26 10:38:57)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Aution Detective

2-shot Auction Detective

2-shot Gravedigger

2-shot Watcher

@mod, I thought Misty replaced out. Why is her name still on this list?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Could the team actually be Kitty/VFP/Kyuku?

Or is VFP a miselim?

Fascinating that Kyuku completely lost her sr on VFP today and shaded me for catching scum.

I definitely feel like VFP is a misyeet
What do you think of Kyouko’s picks?

If you’re referring to any mech stuff I really wish I could talk to Pooky. That’s why I signed up as a hydra.

If you’re referring to play, I’ve already said what I think.

I didn’t like that the VFP wagon built up that fast and why does scum kill Flea? If Kitty really did get cop, then it really doesn’t make a lot of sense.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

compare that to this games marci

Link/quote?

I’m not extremely familiar with her meta.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

Only mention of Marci by Kitty.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

compare that to this games marci

Link/quote?

I’m not extremely familiar with her meta.

Newbie 2061 views of talin

Yes, she’s way more decisive in her towngames but she also tryharded a lot more in that.

I will re-ISO her. In Nancy v Titus, she was part of a hydra but they were very clearly town but I don’t recall which posts were hers in that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Btw iso'ing Flea, unless the scumteam is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus not to pull such a n00bscum move, I'm thinking Flea was killed because the scumteam thought Flea was either a role or because the scumteam thought Flea was just that obvtown and were threatened by faer. (As far as I can tell, Flea gave suspicion to only cyrus and maybe imaginality. So the possibilities are; either cyrus is scum and killed Flea as the main threat to him and wasn't told to not do this by his scumbuddy, or Flea wasn't killed for faer reads, leaving the possibilities as "pr hunt" or "threat due to Flea being Flea".)

If it is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus better, then the most likely option would be VFP (tho I suppose marcistar would be possible).

If it is someone who thought Flea was a threat in general and/or Flea was a PR, I'd say it's Cupcake Butterfly + VFP (tho I suppose marcistar's possible if marcistar has played with Flea before).

POE-wise that'd imply to me that VFP is scum regardless tho, so I guess back to here;
VOTE: VFP

Am open to other thoughts here tho.

ive never played with flea before im pretty sure

if i was scum vfp would be dead tho

i like the vfp vote
VOTE: vfp

@Marci, can you explain this?

If VFP would be dead if you were scum, then why do you like this vote?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

DON'T SAY YOUR GUESS NOW. JUST KNOW.

ALSO I'M TERRIBLE AT KEEPING THINGS HIDDEN HEHEHEHEHE

My hype for this game just rose about 20%.

It’s weak but I kind’ve like this post. SS hates playing scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Vfp is e-1 btw:

Cyrus, mastina, s&m, distance, marci, by my count

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You tried to stop the Kitty wagon and are not interested in voting VFP today. Interesting.

UNVOTE:

Since he’s at E-1 I’m going to wait a bit. I’m not really a fan of Kyuku trying to stop the Kitty wagon and seemingly suddenly having no interest in voting VFP today.

Well I certainly had no interest in quick hammering him, you're right about that. I have not expressed any disinterest in voting VFP today though. What do you think about

why

I was trying to stop the kitty wagon yesterDay? You seem to be ignoring/not addressing the why - have you seen it?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

Oh nm I think I was looking at VFP's tally in MO not in VC

I think S&M hydra is probably confirmed town now right?

I was actually curious if anyone has seen Nancy Drew bus before, wanted to take a look at that possibility (I think that was all the Nancy Drew head)

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I had a sneaking suspicion Noraa was bussing in my last game with her, and she turned out to be town. I have the same sneaking suspicion here, though I was more confident in Noraa town than I am in this hydra at present.

I dont think flea would have doctored me if fae had won it so I'll just assume it was a setup of some kind

I thought Flea bid on cop?

I didn't get this impression, but it seems like there are several references to Flea bidding on cop as I was catching up. Did fae crumb it or something and I didn't notice?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You surmised a reality that Kitty was town, how does their scumflip affect your reads?

125+300 is 425. I think cyrus is here as scum to buy something for 425

I'm failing to see the leap of logic where Cyrus bids 425, did you mention it in a previous post?

Thanks for the unlock boss.

I enhanced 1-shot BP and the three 2-shots that were rolled. I did not enhance the 1-shot AD, was going to enhance that for tomorrow's auction

Were there any roles you weren't going to entertain boosting at all?

1. My assessment of the situation yesterday was that scum was taking advantage of plurality and the eminent deadline to squeeze through a lynch on a lurking townie that would give no info to town. Because of that I was interested in eliminating just about anyone else, and when I saw Misty, who I was lightly townleaning, vote VFP, a player I was scumleaning so close to deadline, I saw opportunity. I tried to get Gamma onto VFP and luckily he did not swap as Kitty ended up being scum. My reads on the players on the wagon are similar to yours, mastina's, VFP's: I think most likely they are all town. There is potential one player on the wagon was bussing, but I am not convinced and if there is a busser there, it is not Distance. To be clear I am not trying to say you mastina and VFP all feel exactly the same as I do re: that wagon, just that I think my thoughts on it are similar to yours.

2. Cyrus admitted to bidding 125 on each of the 4 roles, and the midday auction provided evidence to corroborate that. I was suspicious as to why he was hanging around so close to deadline when he seemed to not be invested in changing the current MO or Elim wagons. The only reason left to be around at deadline, imo, was to bid at the deadline. However, Cyrus' money should have already been spent if he were town. This lead me to believe he could plausibly be scum waiting to spend his remaining 300 dogecoin on increasing one of his bids. 125+300 =425, so to outbid scum!cyrus I had to spend 426. I went back and forth trying to decide whether to buy roleblock or hitman and decided that if I could get hitman it would be best. It would force scum to deal with the doctor WIFOM or to outbid town on doctor which is a big cash sink for them. This is why I claimed for the doctor my exact bid so they would have the info necessary to decide if they wanted to doc me or protect me via wifom and either save a shot last night, or doc someone else. I also felt that by buying hitman it would increase the value of the doctor and the BP I Enhanced for my successor. Unfortunately BP is the one role I enhanced that did not make it, but it turned out to not matter because I am still alive.

3. off the top of my head, dayvig, hitman, godfather, ninja. Dont remember the other scum roles if there are any. I initially was going to send in 2-shot tracker instead of 2-shot gravedigger but again thought gravedigger would be very helpful for sorting out potential fakeclaims in the upcoming days.

If I had to take a blind guess of blind guesses, it'd be VFP + Cupcake Butterfly but I've got literally zero logic for this.

VOTE: VFP

HEAL: Smoke and Mirrors

I believe MO is permanent once it has been decided D1 or?

You must've had an instinct to place Marci and Cyrus as town, if not a VFP/Me team. How?

MO is permanent until I die but I can name my replacement in my PT at any point up until my death, so if people want to express support for my successor I will take it into consideration. No promises I'll change it though.

I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I actually caught scum and you tried to save them.

Consider my point of view. From where I'm standing it looks like someone bussed Kitty. Before the flip it looked like he was an easy mislim being pushed through close to deadline. Fmpov, anyone besides Kitty had a greater chance than kitty of being scum, because of how easily the wagon went through. I didnt disagree his iso looked scummy and his disappearing after claiming to have time was definitely a red flag, but life happens sometimes.

When I read your post I think "I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I bussed my partner so I deserve towncred, and you had a bad read on the gamestate so now I'll be using that towncred to shade you"

Could the team actually be Kitty/VFP/Kyuku?

Or is VFP a miselim?

Fascinating that Kyuku completely lost her sr on VFP today and shaded me for catching scum.

Once again you're leaping to the conclusion that because I didnt immediately hammer VFP that I no longer scumread them. I think at this point it's become apparent that VFP is a mislim. The sad part is if you're town and VFP is scum your actions toDay have made me less inclined to vote VFP.

You egregiously misunderstood me then. I thought it sus that you would shading me when you were wrong on Kitty and I was right. Prior to flip, you were tr Kitty and sr me, so I would expected town!you to have reacrssed, so why haven’t you?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i think distance being confrontational out of the gate is >rand town

VOTE: VFP
HEAL: Mistyx

idk what the current vc is but this is where im leaning

i dont think VFP has really done anything towny and didnt like their handling of gamma post rep in

This is just most likely scum.
Misty doesn't mention Kitty at all, considering they were the leading wagon and makes a new vote for 2 reasons.

I havent done anything towny. Its not exactly wrong, but it's very vague when you consider that this means Misty was playing Kitty off as doing something as town, yet again, not mentioning Kitty.

And they didn't like my handling of Gamma post joining. This is again very vague and doesn't actually make sense considering I hadn't really handled anything other than a back and fourth about a game I wasn't in.

The main part though is having to say that they do not know where the VC is at. If they feel I'm scum here then I don't see a reason to announce this. To say that I I haven't done anything town means that they are either A) caught up and have a general idea that I didn't have votes or at least any in a threatening way, or B) only read my ISO instead of the game which would suggest not scum hunting but looking for reasons to give a scum read.
It seems like a way to distract that Kitty has 4 votes and that they want to start a wagon.


Following on, Kitty doesn't mention Misty and I think 281 is just all town.

Neither Misty or Kitty mention Mastina.
Mastina mentions Mist and places as town several times, but I feel like this has to be locked in given the fina post to date.

167 where Misty is added to the town pile for the following.
44 100 105 112 124 135 149
These posts are either fluff or filler. At best this isn't something that credits a top 4 town read.
Not to mention 161 is an indication of Mastina catching up and already pushing Misty for town posts with only 2 posts that are irrelevant to AI.

I think the only reason Kitty wasn't in this post is because at this point Kitty only had 1 post. 11

Second post is 483 not much to this but just another post to call Misty town with nothing to offer why.
517 even says here that there's no reason. It's a strong read to still be sticking with since mastina also claimed to not have received the cop before this.
Then 526 where mastina is basically getting ready to back peddle if needed. It's a strange thought to have when Misty is apparently that towny. As if trying to get in before anyone else can about the replace out.

Mastinas argument to why Flea was killed makes little sense in general and just comes across as a "I wouldn't kill here, please believe me". Its just too direct that particular players would make an unworthy kill (again, trying to imply the kill wasn't a good one for experienced players) or that Flea was a threat. It just contradicts itself. Either Flea is a threat and therefore worthy of killing or the kill was a bad choice.
We also see that mastina was absent majority of day 1 with only 3 posts. So it could easily just suggest that Misty makes the kill and mastina just wasn't there for the kill.
I find it even stranger that Mastina considers me a player who doesn't care about having input with the kill. Again it just seems to be a precise situation where Mastina is trying to throw mud and see if it sticks.

I'm just calling it now, scum are Kitty, SS/Misty, and Mastina.
Do what you will with it.

Good news is that I hopefully can read SS. I’ve played a lot of games with him and he is likewise pretty decent at correctly reading me as well.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler: mastina

(I am legit having a hard time getting into this game tho; it is undoubtedly the worst towngame I've had in a very very very long time. I genuinely wouldn't mind being voted out especially if there were an autowin or damn near close to one.)

By worst towngame, do you mean how you view the town's ability this game, or your ability to navigate it?

My ability to navigate it.

I'm literally deadweight, I'm literally worthless.

I don't have real thoughts, I don't have real reasons, I've barely posted at all so I can't be obvtown either, I don't see how I could look town and I don't see how I can really be helping town.

I can say that I think the wagon on scum D1 was all town--it was not a full 7 elimination but rather a plurality elimination. While it's possible scum forgot about plurality and didn't realize the elimination would go through, I find it more likely that the names on the wagon were all town. This would be good analysis if I were the first one to point it out (I immediately upon the scumflip thought "okay this entire wagon is town"), but by the time I got around to this thread no less than two other people had beaten me to the punch in making that exact conclusion.

I can say that I feel that MistyX is town, but I've legit got nothing to back that, other than just liking MistyX and smiling at their contributions and liking them and thinking the interactions came from town.

I can say that I am trusting the collective townreads on ssbm and buy the choice in items as being a fairly protown approach, but I am also not unique in this with everyone having already said as much pretty much.

I don't have any actual meaningful tangible contribution to give, so I feel worthless. I wasn't on the D1 scum elimination, I've barely posted, I've done just about zero anything. Heck even me calling Flea town was purely me trying hard to force a read off of feelings more than evidence so I don't even really deserve credit for getting that read right.

I AM trying tho, I'm just, not doing as well as I want to.

What would get you into reading the game more critically? We've actually limmed scum, nothing in Kitty's ISO tips you off in one direction or another?

Why back the VFP wagon now? Do you really think town hit scum twice EoD1?

I'm having trouble visualizing two thought patterns existing within you. You don't seem confident in your understanding of the game, but enough to assert votes and attach scumreads/associatives loosely. What is your goal?

@CB, you having Gamma in your PoE really worries me because you are not a noob, so how could you not know that Alisae is not only decent at playing scum, e’s one of the few people who actually love playing it?

If it weren’t for that Misty vote, I might be inclined to think Flea kill was a frame up.

I've seen Ali powerplay mech as scum, I've hydra'd with scum-them, but we may have rep'ed out? Don't recall entirely. I didn't want to write Ali off as town just because they understood the mech spectacularly, I wanted to read them via 1-on-1. The rep out stunted that approach.

As for Gamma? I liked that they challenged Mastina's take on my slot, I feel like scum-Gamma could've easily ran with it. I feel that scum-Gamma can be either more aggressive or more avoidant in thread. I haven't asserted a townread much yet because I wanted to view Gamma's progression post-wagon so I can better assess whether they had perfect knowledge of Kitty's alignment or didn't - without my input influencing them in any manner, since I'm confident they know my main too.

Btw iso'ing Flea, unless the scumteam is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus not to pull such a n00bscum move, I'm thinking Flea was killed because the scumteam thought Flea was either a role or because the scumteam thought Flea was just that obvtown and were threatened by faer. (As far as I can tell, Flea gave suspicion to only cyrus and maybe imaginality. So the possibilities are; either cyrus is scum and killed Flea as the main threat to him and wasn't told to not do this by his scumbuddy, or Flea wasn't killed for faer reads, leaving the possibilities as "pr hunt" or "threat due to Flea being Flea".)

If it is cyrus + someone who wouldn't tell cyrus better, then the most likely option would be VFP (tho I suppose marcistar would be possible).

If it is someone who thought Flea was a threat in general and/or Flea was a PR, I'd say it's Cupcake Butterfly + VFP (tho I suppose marcistar's possible if marcistar has played with Flea before).

POE-wise that'd imply to me that VFP is scum regardless tho, so I guess back to here;
VOTE: VFP

Am open to other thoughts here tho.

ive never played with flea before im pretty sure

if i was scum vfp would be dead tho

i like the vfp vote
VOTE: vfp

But you're voting VFP now... I gather:
1. For you to be scum, VFP will most certainly die - I guess regardless of his alignment in which case.
2. To take you in good faith, you're town voting scum-VFP or believe so...

But why not entertain the reality of you/VFP TvT?

stuff

you passed the vibe check, any specific strat for tonight or is it based around the bids today - if you're even willing to answer this.

Good answer, I still feel extremely confident in town!Gamma.

I also think you’d prefer not want to out your alt as scum, so townpoints for that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

everybody is making sense, HELP

Lol, this isn't the lament I'm used to getting from you. Why's it a problem?

Thinking my tr on Misty was probably right. Scum!SS tends to be somewhat frozen.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

everybody is making sense, HELP

Lol, this isn't the lament I'm used to getting from you. Why's it a problem?

dont worry, its D2 and we havent even gotten to the weekend, so i virtually have not even begun playing this game yet

im just piecing together what sounds good VS what reasoning is sound

mastina is doing something i tend to do as scum, but i dont want to push that for the moment
just when i start to feel comfortable with Kyouko, they may 1v1 with nancy
im actually paying attention to gamma now and i dont see an issue with them

imaginality was my first solid townread of the game due to how much they boosted me D1, theyve stuck to only a few players in their lips come D2 though
marci is ???
im vibe checking you SS, not expecting much from this though, because youve duped me at least twice before.

and VFP has well-reasoned thoughts thus far, not that i was a fan of them D1, but i definitely do not vibe with that L-1 push... i feel like scum could've easily hammered him and didnt though.

I’m currently thinking CB/SS possibly TvT?

More confident on CB rn. Scum!CB tends to be extremely lamisty and tryhard but you seem to be genuinely sorting.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

There is at least one scum in S&M and Distance, I think they just double bussed though. Triple ISO them with kitty. It seems to me the plan was to steal cop with the dead scum's wallet and save the rest of the money for later auctions when a town MO can no longer "guarantee" that no scum roles make it in. The fewer roles that remain, the less powerful the MO Enhancement becomes and the more likely a random role that benefits scum will slip in. By double bussing d1 they can ride out the game until a good scum power slips through

VOTE: S&M

If this is green I will reconsider Distance.

Good job, if you’re actually town here and town doesn’t want to lose, they should steer 100% clear of your shitty reads,

[Smoke and Mirrors]

There is at least one scum in S&M and Distance, I think they just double bussed though. Triple ISO them with kitty. It seems to me the plan was to steal cop with the dead scum's wallet and save the rest of the money for later auctions when a town MO can no longer "guarantee" that no scum roles make it in. The fewer roles that remain, the less powerful the MO Enhancement becomes and the more likely a random role that benefits scum will slip in. By double bussing d1 they can ride out the game until a good scum power slips through

VOTE: S&M

If this is green I will reconsider Distance.

Good job, if you’re actually town here and town doesn’t want to lose, they should steer 100% clear of your shitty reads,

@Imaginality, still think this is town? Kyuku’s top srs are on the extremely likely pure Kitty wagon. I was going to unvote you but this screams setting up miselims to me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So I'm E1 because scum do what they do every game and call me town.

No you're L-1 because this game is incredibly winnable via POE thanks to how D1 played out, and the N1 nightkill can be used to deduce even further the most likely scum to make the kill there in the remaining players, and you're the best fit for that.

VOTE: Mastina because she talked a lot about her vote but a lot of the logic seemed to contain some "in this scenario I think it's most likely VFP" statements where the reason for thinking it's most likely VFP wasn't really laid out.

What's there to lay out when it's player psychology analysis?

I am somewhat familiar with the way most of the players operate in this game when they are scum. What they are likely to do as scum, how they operate as scum, thoughts that are likely to occur to them as scum and thoughts that are unlikely to occur to them as scum.

If Flea was killed because cyrus is scum and cyrus's scumbuddy didn't tell them to not do this, the most likely player to fit that is VFP because VFP is the type of scum player that would analyze cyrus's choice and not see the downside, supporting it, more or less. He would look at it, and either be indifferent to it or more likely "sounds like a good idea" or something to that effect. Where he would see the upsides to the kill but not consider the downsides involved.

If Flea was not killed because cyrus is scum, the possibilities are Flea was killed to PR hunt or Flea was killed for general threat level.

If Flea was killed to PR hunt, the two players most likely to engage in PR hunting are Cupcake Butterfly and VFP. They are the players most likely to try and delve into PR speculation, of where the bids were, and try to kill based off of that. VFP has engaged in this type of behavior before so he tops the charts in this regard.

If Flea was killed for general townness factor between Flea being obvtown and being Flea...VFP is one of the players with the most familiarity with Flea, and the type of player to be most afraid of Flea, and the type of player most likely to approve of a kill on Flea for that reason.

But all of this relies on psychological profiling of the player in question. How do you explain a psychological profile? How do you give details of it? You can't exactly point to past scumgames for a one for one comparison because it's not a tell, there's enough variance in games that it's not going to be a one for one comparison. You can look at the general psychology and basic patterns, but that's about it, and it's those patterns that make me think VFP is the most likely to approve of a Flea kill here.

I can maybe explain the psychology behind the players who wouldn't make the Flea kill as to why they're unlikely to make it. But the unlikely-to-nightkill psychological profiles are pretty damn similar in how fact-lacking they are, so I genuinely don't know how to give more. You're asking me to create extra logic in a place where there's no extra logic to be had.

@Mastina do you tr kyuku? Having her top srs 2 slots that actually voted scum really weirds me out.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Thinking my tr on Misty was probably right. Scum!SS tends to be somewhat frozen.

You're probably giving my scumgame too little credit, I think. That doesn't seem like a post I'd have trouble making as scum.

Oh okay, you’ve improved then in that case. Misty was my #1 tr until she replaced out though but I’ll wait and see then.

But for now, you’re definitely not pinging me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So I'm E1 because scum do what they do every game and call me town.

No you're L-1 because this game is incredibly winnable via POE thanks to how D1 played out, and the N1 nightkill can be used to deduce even further the most likely scum to make the kill there in the remaining players, and you're the best fit for that.

VOTE: Mastina because she talked a lot about her vote but a lot of the logic seemed to contain some "in this scenario I think it's most likely VFP" statements where the reason for thinking it's most likely VFP wasn't really laid out.

What's there to lay out when it's player psychology analysis?

I am somewhat familiar with the way most of the players operate in this game when they are scum. What they are likely to do as scum, how they operate as scum, thoughts that are likely to occur to them as scum and thoughts that are unlikely to occur to them as scum.

If Flea was killed because cyrus is scum and cyrus's scumbuddy didn't tell them to not do this, the most likely player to fit that is VFP because VFP is the type of scum player that would analyze cyrus's choice and not see the downside, supporting it, more or less. He would look at it, and either be indifferent to it or more likely "sounds like a good idea" or something to that effect. Where he would see the upsides to the kill but not consider the downsides involved.

If Flea was not killed because cyrus is scum, the possibilities are Flea was killed to PR hunt or Flea was killed for general threat level.

If Flea was killed to PR hunt, the two players most likely to engage in PR hunting are Cupcake Butterfly and VFP. They are the players most likely to try and delve into PR speculation, of where the bids were, and try to kill based off of that. VFP has engaged in this type of behavior before so he tops the charts in this regard.

If Flea was killed for general townness factor between Flea being obvtown and being Flea...VFP is one of the players with the most familiarity with Flea, and the type of player to be most afraid of Flea, and the type of player most likely to approve of a kill on Flea for that reason.

But all of this relies on psychological profiling of the player in question. How do you explain a psychological profile? How do you give details of it? You can't exactly point to past scumgames for a one for one comparison because it's not a tell, there's enough variance in games that it's not going to be a one for one comparison. You can look at the general psychology and basic patterns, but that's about it, and it's those patterns that make me think VFP is the most likely to approve of a Flea kill here.

I can maybe explain the psychology behind the players who wouldn't make the Flea kill as to why they're unlikely to make it. But the unlikely-to-nightkill psychological profiles are pretty damn similar in how fact-lacking they are, so I genuinely don't know how to give more. You're asking me to create extra logic in a place where there's no extra logic to be had.

honestly this argument to "why VFP" is halfway engaging

I don’t have a confident read on his slot one way or another. I did like him calling Kitty wagon all town though but I don’t agree with his PoE.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So I'm E1 because scum do what they do every game and call me town.
I agree I didn't get on to action but I even went against Kitty for calling me town for the reasoning was obviously faked.

It does make me think possibly anti-partnery, so you may be right. @SS.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game

.

There is at least one scum in S&M and Distance, I think they just double bussed though. Triple ISO them with kitty. It seems to me the plan was to steal cop with the dead scum's wallet and save the rest of the money for later auctions when a town MO can no longer "guarantee" that no scum roles make it in. The fewer roles that remain, the less powerful the MO Enhancement becomes and the more likely a random role that benefits scum will slip in. By double bussing d1 they can ride out the game until a good scum power slips through

VOTE: S&M

If this is green I will reconsider Distance.

What are the odds that kyuku has the exact same srs as flipped scum, is a complete coincidence?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Anyone want to take bets that Imaginality and Gamma will likely be next?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

What are the odds that kyuku has the exact same srs as flipped scum, is a complete coincidence?

Well, what are the odds that he borrows reads from his flipped buddy?

Probably lower.

Why? His reads make no sense.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I mean that seems like such a dumb play to do intentionally.

It’s a dumb play to have your 2 top srs, players who actually voted scum. Seriously what townie thinks like this? I also think that’s kind of a wifomy argument. He could be absolutely dreadful town but his play is so extremely antitown.

Especially when he already acknowledged he had the same wrong theory about Noraa.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm also happy to put everyone on the Kitty wagon as town.
Scum looked dis organised or just absent to not move over to me or even try else where.

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and

I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

This including Flea vote make me think I may have possibly been wrong about VFP.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I mean, it's totally fair game to call him scum because his scumreads don't make sense. I think accusing him of ripping reads from his dead scumbuddy is pushing it, though.

I think it’s far more likely he wasn’t paying attention. I never actually implied that, all I said was it’s sus to me, that it’s the exact same srs. There’s 4 slots on Kitty wagon and Kyuku just happens to sus the same 2. My argument is if scum, he either wasn’t paying attention or he even possibly anticipated this kind of argument.

The way he said, if green, he’s voting Distance absolutely pinged me though. I think Kitty wagon is pure and if Kyuku’s plan is to yeet the extremely unlikely non-existent busser, if I’m right, his srs will eventually probably include Imaginality and Gamma because he’s not looking elsewhere.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler: quote wall

Vfp is e-1 btw:

Cyrus, mastina, s&m, distance, marci, by my count

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You tried to stop the Kitty wagon and are not interested in voting VFP today. Interesting.

UNVOTE:

Since he’s at E-1 I’m going to wait a bit. I’m not really a fan of Kyuku trying to stop the Kitty wagon and seemingly suddenly having no interest in voting VFP today.

Well I certainly had no interest in quick hammering him, you're right about that. I have not expressed any disinterest in voting VFP today though. What do you think about

why

I was trying to stop the kitty wagon yesterDay? You seem to be ignoring/not addressing the why - have you seen it?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

Oh nm I think I was looking at VFP's tally in MO not in VC

I think S&M hydra is probably confirmed town now right?

I was actually curious if anyone has seen Nancy Drew bus before, wanted to take a look at that possibility (I think that was all the Nancy Drew head)

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I had a sneaking suspicion Noraa was bussing in my last game with her, and she turned out to be town. I have the same sneaking suspicion here, though I was more confident in Noraa town than I am in this hydra at present.

I dont think flea would have doctored me if fae had won it so I'll just assume it was a setup of some kind

I thought Flea bid on cop?

I didn't get this impression, but it seems like there are several references to Flea bidding on cop as I was catching up. Did fae crumb it or something and I didn't notice?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You surmised a reality that Kitty was town, how does their scumflip affect your reads?

125+300 is 425. I think cyrus is here as scum to buy something for 425

I'm failing to see the leap of logic where Cyrus bids 425, did you mention it in a previous post?

Thanks for the unlock boss.

I enhanced 1-shot BP and the three 2-shots that were rolled. I did not enhance the 1-shot AD, was going to enhance that for tomorrow's auction

Were there any roles you weren't going to entertain boosting at all?

1. My assessment of the situation yesterday was that scum was taking advantage of plurality and the eminent deadline to squeeze through a lynch on a lurking townie that would give no info to town. Because of that I was interested in eliminating just about anyone else, and when I saw Misty, who I was lightly townleaning, vote VFP, a player I was scumleaning so close to deadline, I saw opportunity. I tried to get Gamma onto VFP and luckily he did not swap as Kitty ended up being scum. My reads on the players on the wagon are similar to yours, mastina's, VFP's: I think most likely they are all town. There is potential one player on the wagon was bussing, but I am not convinced and if there is a busser there, it is not Distance. To be clear I am not trying to say you mastina and VFP all feel exactly the same as I do re: that wagon, just that I think my thoughts on it are similar to yours.

2. Cyrus admitted to bidding 125 on each of the 4 roles, and the midday auction provided evidence to corroborate that. I was suspicious as to why he was hanging around so close to deadline when he seemed to not be invested in changing the current MO or Elim wagons. The only reason left to be around at deadline, imo, was to bid at the deadline. However, Cyrus' money should have already been spent if he were town. This lead me to believe he could plausibly be scum waiting to spend his remaining 300 dogecoin on increasing one of his bids. 125+300 =425, so to outbid scum!cyrus I had to spend 426. I went back and forth trying to decide whether to buy roleblock or hitman and decided that if I could get hitman it would be best. It would force scum to deal with the doctor WIFOM or to outbid town on doctor which is a big cash sink for them. This is why I claimed for the doctor my exact bid so they would have the info necessary to decide if they wanted to doc me or protect me via wifom and either save a shot last night, or doc someone else. I also felt that by buying hitman it would increase the value of the doctor and the BP I Enhanced for my successor. Unfortunately BP is the one role I enhanced that did not make it, but it turned out to not matter because I am still alive.

3. off the top of my head, dayvig, hitman, godfather, ninja. Dont remember the other scum roles if there are any. I initially was going to send in 2-shot tracker instead of 2-shot gravedigger but again thought gravedigger would be very helpful for sorting out potential fakeclaims in the upcoming days.

If I had to take a blind guess of blind guesses, it'd be VFP + Cupcake Butterfly but I've got literally zero logic for this.

VOTE: VFP

HEAL: Smoke and Mirrors

I believe MO is permanent once it has been decided D1 or?

You must've had an instinct to place Marci and Cyrus as town, if not a VFP/Me team. How?

MO is permanent until I die but I can name my replacement in my PT at any point up until my death, so if people want to express support for my successor I will take it into consideration. No promises I'll change it though.

I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I actually caught scum and you tried to save them.

Consider my point of view. From where I'm standing it looks like someone bussed Kitty. Before the flip it looked like he was an easy mislim being pushed through close to deadline. Fmpov, anyone besides Kitty had a greater chance than kitty of being scum, because of how easily the wagon went through. I didnt disagree his iso looked scummy and his disappearing after claiming to have time was definitely a red flag, but life happens sometimes.

When I read your post I think "I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I bussed my partner so I deserve towncred, and you had a bad read on the gamestate so now I'll be using that towncred to shade you"

Could the team actually be Kitty/VFP/Kyuku?

Or is VFP a miselim?

Fascinating that Kyuku completely lost her sr on VFP today and shaded me for catching scum.

Once again you're leaping to the conclusion that because I didnt immediately hammer VFP that I no longer scumread them. I think at this point it's become apparent that VFP is a mislim. The sad part is if you're town and VFP is scum your actions toDay have made me less inclined to vote VFP.

You egregiously misunderstood me then. I thought it sus that you would shading me when you were wrong on Kitty and I was right. Prior to flip, you were tr Kitty and sr me, so I would expected town!you to have reacrssed, so why haven’t you?

I have reassessed - prior to the flip I thought Kitty was being pushed through as an easy plurality lim. After the flip and reassessment I think Kitty was a crossbus. I think you and distance both make sense as the crossbusser and furthermore, after reading the 3 of you in combined ISO I think you 3 make sense as a team, but there exists a world where you just decided to defend town!distance and take his side and bus Kitty for combined motive of getting towncred and potentially pocketing Distance.

I'm still wondering though, what are your thoughts on why I voted for VFP at end of d1?

Are you seriously saying there doesn’t exist a world where you’re deadass wrong about me and possibly Distance as well? Because that’s what I’m picking up from this. It seems to me that you’re not interested in properly parsing me and are only focused on trying to miselim me.

The fact that you are not even considering the fact that you’re plain dead wrong, is why I’m still voting you. That’s exactly what scum!Robert did to town!willow in Happy Face.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler: quote wall

Vfp is e-1 btw:

Cyrus, mastina, s&m, distance, marci, by my count

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You tried to stop the Kitty wagon and are not interested in voting VFP today. Interesting.

UNVOTE:

Since he’s at E-1 I’m going to wait a bit. I’m not really a fan of Kyuku trying to stop the Kitty wagon and seemingly suddenly having no interest in voting VFP today.

Well I certainly had no interest in quick hammering him, you're right about that. I have not expressed any disinterest in voting VFP today though. What do you think about

why

I was trying to stop the kitty wagon yesterDay? You seem to be ignoring/not addressing the why - have you seen it?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

Oh nm I think I was looking at VFP's tally in MO not in VC

I think S&M hydra is probably confirmed town now right?

I was actually curious if anyone has seen Nancy Drew bus before, wanted to take a look at that possibility (I think that was all the Nancy Drew head)

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I had a sneaking suspicion Noraa was bussing in my last game with her, and she turned out to be town. I have the same sneaking suspicion here, though I was more confident in Noraa town than I am in this hydra at present.

I dont think flea would have doctored me if fae had won it so I'll just assume it was a setup of some kind

I thought Flea bid on cop?

I didn't get this impression, but it seems like there are several references to Flea bidding on cop as I was catching up. Did fae crumb it or something and I didn't notice?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You surmised a reality that Kitty was town, how does their scumflip affect your reads?

125+300 is 425. I think cyrus is here as scum to buy something for 425

I'm failing to see the leap of logic where Cyrus bids 425, did you mention it in a previous post?

Thanks for the unlock boss.

I enhanced 1-shot BP and the three 2-shots that were rolled. I did not enhance the 1-shot AD, was going to enhance that for tomorrow's auction

Were there any roles you weren't going to entertain boosting at all?

1. My assessment of the situation yesterday was that scum was taking advantage of plurality and the eminent deadline to squeeze through a lynch on a lurking townie that would give no info to town. Because of that I was interested in eliminating just about anyone else, and when I saw Misty, who I was lightly townleaning, vote VFP, a player I was scumleaning so close to deadline, I saw opportunity. I tried to get Gamma onto VFP and luckily he did not swap as Kitty ended up being scum. My reads on the players on the wagon are similar to yours, mastina's, VFP's: I think most likely they are all town. There is potential one player on the wagon was bussing, but I am not convinced and if there is a busser there, it is not Distance. To be clear I am not trying to say you mastina and VFP all feel exactly the same as I do re: that wagon, just that I think my thoughts on it are similar to yours.

2. Cyrus admitted to bidding 125 on each of the 4 roles, and the midday auction provided evidence to corroborate that. I was suspicious as to why he was hanging around so close to deadline when he seemed to not be invested in changing the current MO or Elim wagons. The only reason left to be around at deadline, imo, was to bid at the deadline. However, Cyrus' money should have already been spent if he were town. This lead me to believe he could plausibly be scum waiting to spend his remaining 300 dogecoin on increasing one of his bids. 125+300 =425, so to outbid scum!cyrus I had to spend 426. I went back and forth trying to decide whether to buy roleblock or hitman and decided that if I could get hitman it would be best. It would force scum to deal with the doctor WIFOM or to outbid town on doctor which is a big cash sink for them. This is why I claimed for the doctor my exact bid so they would have the info necessary to decide if they wanted to doc me or protect me via wifom and either save a shot last night, or doc someone else. I also felt that by buying hitman it would increase the value of the doctor and the BP I Enhanced for my successor. Unfortunately BP is the one role I enhanced that did not make it, but it turned out to not matter because I am still alive.

3. off the top of my head, dayvig, hitman, godfather, ninja. Dont remember the other scum roles if there are any. I initially was going to send in 2-shot tracker instead of 2-shot gravedigger but again thought gravedigger would be very helpful for sorting out potential fakeclaims in the upcoming days.

If I had to take a blind guess of blind guesses, it'd be VFP + Cupcake Butterfly but I've got literally zero logic for this.

VOTE: VFP

HEAL: Smoke and Mirrors

I believe MO is permanent once it has been decided D1 or?

You must've had an instinct to place Marci and Cyrus as town, if not a VFP/Me team. How?

MO is permanent until I die but I can name my replacement in my PT at any point up until my death, so if people want to express support for my successor I will take it into consideration. No promises I'll change it though.

I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I actually caught scum and you tried to save them.

Consider my point of view. From where I'm standing it looks like someone bussed Kitty. Before the flip it looked like he was an easy mislim being pushed through close to deadline. Fmpov, anyone besides Kitty had a greater chance than kitty of being scum, because of how easily the wagon went through. I didnt disagree his iso looked scummy and his disappearing after claiming to have time was definitely a red flag, but life happens sometimes.

When I read your post I think "I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I bussed my partner so I deserve towncred, and you had a bad read on the gamestate so now I'll be using that towncred to shade you"

Could the team actually be Kitty/VFP/Kyuku?

Or is VFP a miselim?

Fascinating that Kyuku completely lost her sr on VFP today and shaded me for catching scum.

Once again you're leaping to the conclusion that because I didnt immediately hammer VFP that I no longer scumread them. I think at this point it's become apparent that VFP is a mislim. The sad part is if you're town and VFP is scum your actions toDay have made me less inclined to vote VFP.

You egregiously misunderstood me then. I thought it sus that you would shading me when you were wrong on Kitty and I was right. Prior to flip, you were tr Kitty and sr me, so I would expected town!you to have reacrssed, so why haven’t you?

I have reassessed - prior to the flip I thought Kitty was being pushed through as an easy plurality lim. After the flip and reassessment I think Kitty was a crossbus. I think you and distance both make sense as the crossbusser and furthermore, after reading the 3 of you in combined ISO I think you 3 make sense as a team, but there exists a world where you just decided to defend town!distance and take his side and bus Kitty for combined motive of getting towncred and potentially pocketing Distance.

I'm still wondering though, what are your thoughts on why I voted for VFP at end of d1?

If you’re scum and VFP’s town, then it would have been to save your buddy obviously. Like Idk but VFP has literally posted that I pretty much did the same exact thing in Happy Face which you can verify if you actually want to accurately solve me, do you? I played under the triple hydra Bear HUGs with Pooky and Noraa.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35075

@Kyuku, here’s a link if you actually are town, you might want to look at.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game

.

There is at least one scum in S&M and Distance, I think they just double bussed though. Triple ISO them with kitty. It seems to me the plan was to steal cop with the dead scum's wallet and save the rest of the money for later auctions when a town MO can no longer "guarantee" that no scum roles make it in. The fewer roles that remain, the less powerful the MO Enhancement becomes and the more likely a random role that benefits scum will slip in. By double bussing d1 they can ride out the game until a good scum power slips through

VOTE: S&M

If this is green I will reconsider Distance.

What are the odds that kyuku has the exact same srs as flipped scum, is a complete coincidence?

It's not a coincidence. I already told you how I came to this conclusion. I ISOed the 3 of you and I believe this was a planned crossbus. I think the plan was for you to take credit for catching scum and for the two of you to mislim VFP today because you thought I would still want to do that based on my vote end of day 1. Distance's morning post about the kitty flip confirming himself as town is also nasty.

You and distance have both missed direct questions from me, though Distance did answer when reprompted. You, however, are more focused on discrediting me as having "terrible reads" than answering the questions that would help me to sort you. If you were town and thought I had a terrible read you would be interested in answering my question, but instead you actively avoid it.

Pedit: wow you really made all those posts without answering my question again. It's not even embedded in a wall that time.

Because you do and why are you ignoring what VFP said about me in Happy Face? Considering you were also wrong about Noraa, you would think town!you wouldn’t be blindly ignoring it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Are you even for real? Am I even voting VFP? No, I’m voting you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You really really want my miselim badly don’t you? If we’re ever NK’d, town should probably look to you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I just read through some of the game you posted. I dont see the parallels so far in reading your ISO. Is there something specific I'm missing?

I see you are still not reading or intentionally misunderstanding/ignoring my posts though.

I didn’t want you to hammer VFP. Is it possible you’re misunderstanding me then? I was surprised that you seemed to be no longer sr him. I think he might possibly be a miselim now because unless I’m wrong on Kitty wagon being pure, I don’t see any scum motivation in him claiming this. Also scum!him has no reason to bring up Happy Face unless it was somehow a pocket and it really didn’t look like one to me. Plus, I also liked SS’ takes on that slot. I jumped off of his wagon because when he suddenly got to E -1, I wasn’t feeling the same degree of confidence I did with Kitty and I really hate to miselim. Of course. if it were to actually turn out that he really is scum, this post will probably come back to bite me but I’m okay with that because rn, I’m leaning to him being a possible miselim.

I don’t have a super strong read on him either way rn but not interested in his wagon today. If you are actually town, then I’m really not sure who to vote for.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I just read through some of the game you posted. I dont see the parallels so far in reading your ISO. Is there something specific I'm missing?

I see you are still not reading or intentionally misunderstanding/ignoring my posts though.

My slot actively rammed through a scum!Bell wagon to make sure he got yeeted.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Are you even for real? Am I even voting VFP? No, I’m voting you.

you were voting him earlier when he was e-1 and then you fabricated the idea that I would not vote VFP when I pointed out he was e-1, shortly thereafter you turned on me because I tried to start a wagon on VFP end of D1, and because of the fabricated claim that I now won't vote VFP. Then, when I asked you to consider why I might have wanted VFP yesterday you ignored my question and went on a loud campaign to discredit me. Your case on me holds no water and the reason you are avoiding my question is that in answering it you will reveal how shallow your "read" truly is.

What do you have to say regarding the reasoning I provided for voting VFP at the end of D1?

Why would I “fabricate” anything? If you’re town then I don’t want you miselimed obviously. I was surprised that you were no longer sr him - or that’s how I read it. You can persist in misunderstanding what I’m saying a disbelieving it but this is the truth.

But I can see why you might wrongly sr me if you honestly thought that.

UNVOTE:

Still not tr you but it’s believable but you also targetting Distance is kind of yuck, so that’s another reason.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Especially when he already acknowledged he had the same wrong theory about Noraa.

I made it clear when I said that in 550 that I was TRing Noraa in that game. Also, what does it matter if I've been wrong in another game before? Because Noraa wasn't bussing that one time, scum will never bus on D1 again?

I didn't hard push Noraa for bussing in that game because while the theory she was bussing occurred to me, it did not make sense, and I had good reason to TR her. Here I believe the triple ISO points to scum in you and distance. Individually I have a stronger read on you, and in the situation you were in with the d1 roles and a 2 horse race between two town for MO, it was going to take a desperate strategy to equalize.

I honestly didn’t pay too much attention to that. Fortunately Pooky has his internet back and he can deal with all of that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@kyuku, I think you’re obviously misunderstanding me makes sense but the rest of it is absolute bonkers.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

What is still nagging at me is that you’re still not considering that you might be wrong and actually are trying to intentionally miselim me. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now that you honestly do believe this but not really confident on it. So I’m off you for now but will continue to monitor your posts closely, until I feel more sure that you are just bad town here and not scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

I still do think this. Have you critically examined his ISO? I’m referring to his other reads and don’t understand why town!you are myopically only focused on Kitty?

I explained why I tr him and it had absolutely nothing to do with Kitty. Re-read my ISO because you seem to be ignoring any of my posts that don’t seem to fit your narrative.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I just read through some of the game you posted. I dont see the parallels so far in reading your ISO. Is there something specific I'm missing?

I see you are still not reading or intentionally misunderstanding/ignoring my posts though.

My slot actively rammed through a scum!Bell wagon to make sure he got yeeted.

But your slot in that game had meta experience with bell and it appeared to me that Pooky is the one that caught Bell with a meta tell. Maybe I'm wrong about the head that caught him but from what I understand pooky was not around to push Kitty yesterDay.

Kitty was also not caught by a meta tell in this game. So the parallel you describe I just dont see. I also noticed in that game, contrary to this game, your iso is very scumhunty D1, where in this game iirc you are giving out townreads seemingly left and right, and aren't really aggressive with anyone until Kitty.

Went and reread your iso - not as many TRs as I remember but seeing Kitty's reads in context with 347 still really irks me. I don't think Distance's posting to that point warranted that read which makes it all the more unusual that the 2 of you caught scum so easily.

Because sometimes I’m actually good at catching scum. Pooky cased Bell, I didn’t but I did case Kitty and found is ISO to be a dumpster fire.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Btw I asked you that question 3 times and reminded you to answer it once more. The 2nd and 3rd times I asked I separated it into its own paragraph with line breaks and the 3rd time I bolded it.

I have ADHD and Dyslexia. I don’t know if that answers your question or not but none of that is AI for me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

votecount 2.3

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (1) : Imaginality
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (0)
Something_Smart (1) - VFP
cyrus62 (0)
imaginality (0)
marcistar (0)
Distance (0)
VFP (5) - Mastina - Distance - marcistar - Cyrus62 - ssbm_Kyouko

not voting (4) - Everyone else

day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-26 10:38:57)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Aution Detective - the top bet at the mid point is 5

2-shot Auction Detective - the top bet at the mid point is 365

2-shot Gravedigger - the top bet at the mid point is 25

2-shot Watcher - the top bet at the mid point is 100

@mod, since SS just replaced in, any chance we get an extension here?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I just read through some of the game you posted. I dont see the parallels so far in reading your ISO. Is there something specific I'm missing?

I see you are still not reading or intentionally misunderstanding/ignoring my posts though.

I didn’t want you to hammer VFP. Is it possible you’re misunderstanding me then? I was surprised that you seemed to be no longer sr him. I think he might possibly be a miselim now because unless I’m wrong on Kitty wagon being pure, I don’t see any scum motivation in him claiming this. Also scum!him has no reason to bring up Happy Face unless it was somehow a pocket and it really didn’t look like one to me. Plus, I also liked SS’ takes on that slot. I jumped off of his wagon because when he suddenly got to E -1, I wasn’t feeling the same degree of confidence I did with Kitty and I really hate to miselim. Of course. if it were to actually turn out that he really is scum, this post will probably come back to bite me but I’m okay with that because rn, I’m leaning to him being a possible miselim.

I don’t have a super strong read on him either way rn but not interested in his wagon today. If you are actually town, then I’m really not sure who to vote for.

I think I missed this post last night. I also missed that you did answer my question now that I'm re-ISOing your later posts.

As frustrated as I was with you missing my points it seems I missed some of yours as well. I'm not satisfied with the answer you did provide, but I can see this is not happening today, and our argument does

feel

tvt in retrospect.

Who are you looking at as an alternative to VFP today, if anyone, and why?

I really don’t know yet which is why I really think we should get an extension because of SS replace in. I don’t think Mastina, Distance or SS are scum. I think Mastina’s town regardless of what VFP is.

If you were to consider someone off the Kitty wagon, who scumpings you the most currently?

If we don’t get an extension I may just sheep Cyrus’ no execute because last games I was in where I was forced to rush a lim due to deadline, they flipped town both times. Kitty like Bell were easy because they were so obviously scum. When Kitty just popped in that last time, said he had time but didn’t respond to any of my questions, it was extremely obvious.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Gamma Emerald
@Smoke and Mirrors
@cyrus62
@marcistar
@ssbm_Kyouko

Unless I've missed a post, none of you are currently voting.
Someone is going to get eliminated in less than a day (barring an extension or explicit no-elim votes getting plurality)

Currently there are by my count 3 votes on VFP, 2 on Something_Smart, and 1 on mastina.

1. Who do you want to see eliminated out of those three?
2. Vote for that person before end of day

If your answer to 1 is "someone else", vote for that person.
If your answer to 1 is "don't elim anyone today", vote for No Execute.

If you don't vote for someone else (or no execute) I shall assume tomorrow you're happy with VFP being eliminated.

If we don’t get an extension and I don’t have an alternative or convinced on VFP!scum, I’m probably going to sheep Cyrus’ no execute. I not happy if we don’t get a deadline. We definitely should do to both Misty replace out/SS replace in.

VOTE: no execute

Just in case we don’t get one or I lose my internet or whatever.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Actually there was one other thing about S&M that pinged me. It was the assertion that flea was bidding on cop yesterday. I didn't recall seeing that anywhere.

I looked back and found it hidden in Flea's quadruple-spoilered wallet. While it is more believable that she noticed it and recalls it as a townie because flea mentioned it in a reply to her, but I feel like in their argument with me earlier that Nancy let the motivation for the NK slip. It seems like something she is sure of rather than a hypothesis.

And I know Nancy - if scum - will fully want to outbid me on the cop, given my last catch <3

Who else besides Nancy/S&M noticed this and remembers specifically that flea intended to bid on cop? I'd like as many people as possible to answer this because I think a good portion of town players probably dont notice this.

I think flea was killed because fae softed they'd bid on cop, so scum were guaranteed to take out 500 town dogecoin by killing there, assuming kitty bought cop. They were probably also avoiding killing me on the assumption that whoever bought doc would protect me last Night.

I was just going to quote that. I have a great memory of these kinds of things. And we did bid on cop but obviously didn’t get it. But that post might be the reason for Flea NK because fae outright claimed they were bidding on cop.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

I intend to switch to any VFP alternative if this doesn't get traction

I guess you don’t intend on answering my question. How did you re-ISO me and are still voting us?

VOTE: Kyuku

This is seriously dumb.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@ssbm I noticed Flea's comment but I didn't assume it meant he was definitely bidding cop, I took it more as "Nancy got burned by my cop play in another game so I expect she, if scum, will bid high for cop to make sure I don't get it if I do bid for it."

Two immediate thoughts.
1. Mastina didn't cover "scum are trying to coin hunt" in the breakdown of possibilities for why Flea was killed. @Mastina does #705 change your analysis?

2. We shouldn't assume doc is town, it's quite possible it could be scum or even that Kitty got both roles (550 cop, 250 doc)

That actually never happened. Idk if fae was referring to Pooky or someone else but it definitely couldn’t have possibly involved me.

Flea has never ever played with scum!me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@ssbm I noticed Flea's comment but I didn't assume it meant he was definitely bidding cop, I took it more as "Nancy got burned by my cop play in another game so I expect she, if scum, will bid high for cop to make sure I don't get it if I do bid for it."

Two immediate thoughts.
1. Mastina didn't cover "scum are trying to coin hunt" in the breakdown of possibilities for why Flea was killed. @Mastina does #705 change your analysis?

2. We shouldn't assume doc is town, it's quite possible it could be scum or even that Kitty got both roles (550 cop, 250 doc)

1. I also noticed this when I started thinking about Flea's soft and am glad to see someone else point it out.

2. I suppose this is possible but if kitty were going for both I would expect to see something more like 501/299, and would also expect to have been NKed. Also if they did get doctor they could only forcibly outbid us on 2 more roles, and with both auction detectives left they would probably like to be able to force 3 out of us so they could buy the daykill if it ever appears

I would also like to point out Sherlock, assuming you are actually town here and capable of logical thought, that in no freaking world would scum!me be dumb enough to kill Flea after seeing that quote. I’m not scum but I’m so fed up with your ridiculous inability to see an blatantly obvious town ISO when you see it, I’m not sure I even care about parsing you if you’re going to be this bad.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

However, you bringing up this quote is making lean to you’re not being town, why? Because if you use your brain, it’s pretty damned obvious that scum is trying to set us up and if you’re scum with Kitty, you referencing that quote makes perfect sense.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Have I actually caught 2 scum? That would be amazing. But it’s so freaking obvious that scum was trying to set us up that either Kyuku is the worst scumhunter in mafia history or he actually is scum. Rn, I’m leaning to yes.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I’m sorry, I promised myself I would be nice but this is such a blatantly obvious shitpush, I not standing for it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was fine with no execute until Kyuku decided to shitpush me. I will yeet that slot out of the stratosphere gladly.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Gamma Emerald
@Smoke and Mirrors
@cyrus62
@marcistar
@ssbm_Kyouko

Unless I've missed a post, none of you are currently voting.
Someone is going to get eliminated in less than a day (barring an extension or explicit no-elim votes getting plurality)

Currently there are by my count 3 votes on VFP, 2 on Something_Smart, and 1 on mastina.

1. Who do you want to see eliminated out of those three?
2. Vote for that person before end of day

If your answer to 1 is "someone else", vote for that person.
If your answer to 1 is "don't elim anyone today", vote for No Execute.

If you don't vote for someone else (or no execute) I shall assume tomorrow you're happy with VFP being eliminated.

my head rlly hurts rn and im tired,
i want something_smart to have a tiny bit more time to have a chance to contribute before we elim them.
so then between vfp and mastina, i would prefer vfp since i kinda think mastinas town
im sure theres someone better, but im not sure if ill have a good enough conclusion before phase end. ^.^ (how long is it until phase end?)

Yeah she’s definitely town and I think wrong on Kyuku. I don’t believe anymore that his push on me is in good faith. I am totally down with a Kyuku wagon but I think he’s got everyone snowed, so it probably won’t happen.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hey @Kyuku, why tf wouldn’t I have noticed that post when it was specifically addressed to ME? How is Kyyuku not scum here? How?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Idk if fae was referring to Pooky or someone else but it definitely couldn’t have possibly involved me.

Flea has never ever played with scum!me.

I would also like to point out Sherlock, assuming you are actually town here and capable of logical thought, that in no freaking world would scum!me be dumb enough to kill Flea after seeing that quote. I’m not scum but I’m so fed up with your ridiculous inability to see an blatantly obvious town ISO when you see it, I’m not sure I even care about parsing you if you’re going to be this bad.

If the quote didn't apply to you then why would you avoid killing Flea because of Flea saying that?

Given you can simply point out you haven't played as scum with Flea?

Because I’m not an idiot. Yeah, so perhaps fae’s referring to catching someone else. I have no idea or maybe fae caught Pooky? But you can check all of both our games to verify this.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hello, to anyone here capable of rational thought. It’s pretty damned obvious that Flea was killed in order for me to get pushed here. It’s not rocket science.

@Imaginality, the fact that Flea has never played with scum!me before is completely irrelevant to what looks like a scum frame up. I caught their buddy and they need me dead with no blood on their hands. It’s so beyond obvious.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

And that is why Kyuku is scum here. Scum killed Flea to push me and who is pushing me? Kyuku. Slam dunk.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

In case we die for whatever reason, Gamma, Mastina, Marci, Distance and probably SS, maybe Cyrus, maybe CB, possibly VFP are town? Scum is Kyuku and us, Gamma, Distance are all town on the Kitty wagon.

Rn, if no bus: Kyuku. If bus: Imaginality is probably the only possibility. Lock it.

Rn, I think Kyuku and possibly Imaginality could be the team. I didn’t like them shading Distance who is pretty obvtown especially since it now looks like Marci is too.


I could be wrong on Imaginality but if Kyuku is scum, they’re a possible buddy. Why because Kyuku insisting it was a bus, makes me think that if he’s scum, there actually was one and he’s tmiing.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was fine with no execute until Kyuku decided to shitpush me. I will yeet that slot out of the stratosphere gladly.

hmm, i wouldn't mind a kyoko elim too much, they aren't confirmed town in any way, their choices as market owner could've easily been made as a like.. if they put roles better for scum, that wouldve been soo sus, so they couldve done these roles to avoid the sus..
but it does worry me because before todays phase i thought they were pretty okay
their push on u is kinda bad since u lead the thing on kitty so hard, u wouldnt stop until u got answers it seemed like... i dont think scum wouldve done that..?

idk how kyouko plays.. maybe they could be scum here, or maybe they could be like idk how to word it nicely, but they could be town who thinks they caught something but they actually havent? i wouldnt be surprised with either..

hmm, but i think i think i think that kyoukos d1 weighs heavier on the scale for me.. so imma pray theyre town

Hello, to anyone here capable of rational thought. It’s pretty damned obvious that Flea was killed in order for me to get pushed here. It’s not rocket science.

im not capable of rational thought sis sorry
-
i og thought that flea was killed because kyouko let it be known what money theyve spent, and flea was otherwise the other pretty widely townread..
it could be possible that its to get you elimed, but i dont think that wouldve been the reason..? it looks kinda like nobodies gonna wanna follow ssbm_kyouko on the push for you, so i don't think its something scums trying to set up.. i think if they wanted to set up something, it would be something more easy for people to follow after? does scum usually push on u o-o

I wasn’t referring to you, you clearly aren’t having any difficulty with that at all.

I really do think Kyuku is scum here and trying to get us miselimed and as for Imaginality, if he actually is scum, I could see scum!Kyuku possibly tming a bus. Of the Kitty wagon, Imaginality is my least confident read but I really think Kitty is because he isn’t trying to genuinely sort me at all. He is trying to make what I see is an exotic obvious shitpush. I’m leaning to VFP possibly being town and Kyuku tming him. Also, he tried to stop Kitty wagon with a VFP push and today he’s suddenly VFP’s #1 defender. I think Kyuku’s sad that I’m no longer on VFP wagon so he has to pull shit out of think air now. Sorry @Mastina, @CB, I think you’re wrong and Kyuku is actually scum here.

Cyrus voting no execute makes me lean town as compared with Kyuku completely ignoring that in order to shitpush me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was fine with no execute until Kyuku decided to shitpush me. I will yeet that slot out of the stratosphere gladly.

hmm, i wouldn't mind a kyoko elim too much, they aren't confirmed town in any way, their choices as market owner could've easily been made as a like.. if they put roles better for scum, that wouldve been soo sus, so they couldve done these roles to avoid the sus..
but it does worry me because before todays phase i thought they were pretty okay
their push on u is kinda bad since u lead the thing on kitty so hard, u wouldnt stop until u got answers it seemed like... i dont think scum wouldve done that..?

idk how kyouko plays.. maybe they could be scum here, or maybe they could be like idk how to word it nicely, but they could be town who thinks they caught something but they actually havent? i wouldnt be surprised with either..

hmm, but i think i think i think that kyoukos d1 weighs heavier on the scale for me.. so imma pray theyre town

Hello, to anyone here capable of rational thought. It’s pretty damned obvious that Flea was killed in order for me to get pushed here. It’s not rocket science.

im not capable of rational thought sis sorry
-
i og thought that flea was killed because kyouko let it be known what money theyve spent, and flea was otherwise the other pretty widely townread..
it could be possible that its to get you elimed, but i dont think that wouldve been the reason..? it looks kinda like nobodies gonna wanna follow ssbm_kyouko on the push for you, so i don't think its something scums trying to set up.. i think if they wanted to set up something, it would be something more easy for people to follow after? does scum usually push on u o-o

I wasn’t referring to you, you clearly aren’t having any difficulty with that at all.

I really do think Kyuku is scum here and trying to get us miselimed and as for Imaginality, if he actually is scum, I could see scum!Kyuku possibly tming a bus. Of the Kitty wagon, Imaginality is my least confident read but I really think Kitty is because he isn’t trying to genuinely sort me at all. He is trying to make what I see is an exotic obvious shitpush. I’m leaning to VFP possibly being town and Kyuku tming him. Also, he tried to stop Kitty wagon with a VFP push and today he’s suddenly VFP’s #1 defender. I think Kyuku’s sad that I’m no longer on VFP wagon so he has to pull shit out of think air now. Sorry @Mastina, @CB, I think you’re wrong and Kyuku is actually scum here.

Cyrus voting no execute makes me lean town as compared with Kyuku completely ignoring that in order to shitpush me.

Kyuku not Kitty, I would lim Kyuku and if he flips scum, I’d probably watch Imaginality closely but if Kyuku is town, Imaginality is probably town and Kitty wagon is actually pure.

But I feel extremely confident that I’ve likely caught the second scum here. I’m not saying that Imaginality has to be his partner. He could still be town because the bus theory might be completely bs, I’d just probably watch him closely if Kyuku flips scum, because he is just too damned confident in his bus theory to make me paranoid but it isn’t us, Gamma or Distance. Both Kitty and Kyuku were hard pushing both us and Distance, so I think Distance is spewed town by that, us too obviously.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Smoke and Mirrors is a hydra containing Pooky.
Pooky has never bussed on D1 as scum, ever.

Smoke and Mirrors is thus the locktown of the locktown for how D1 went down.

The only buddy I have ever hardbussed on D1 was Saudade and anyone who’s ever had the misfortune of rolling scum with Saudade would do likewise.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Smoke and Mirrors is a hydra containing Pooky.
Pooky has never bussed on D1 as scum, ever.

Smoke and Mirrors is thus the locktown of the locktown for how D1 went down.

Kyuku doesn’t care about any reasons pointing away from his agenda. When he referenced that Flea post against me, the wheels turned and it clicked. I really do think Kyuku’s scum here and scum killed Flea to frame us.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Gamma Emerald
@Smoke and Mirrors
@cyrus62
@marcistar
@ssbm_Kyouko

Unless I've missed a post, none of you are currently voting.
Someone is going to get eliminated in less than a day (barring an extension or explicit no-elim votes getting plurality)

Currently there are by my count 3 votes on VFP, 2 on Something_Smart, and 1 on mastina.

1. Who do you want to see eliminated out of those three?
2. Vote for that person before end of day

If your answer to 1 is "someone else", vote for that person.
If your answer to 1 is "don't elim anyone today", vote for No Execute.

If you don't vote for someone else (or no execute) I shall assume tomorrow you're happy with VFP being eliminated.

I really don’t like how arm-twisty this is

I feel like if scum is on the kitty wagon it’s imaginality because their posting just feels inordinately scummy
And scrolling through the topic review in the preview window I’m not alone in feeling this

I can really see a possible Kitty/Kyuku/Imaginality team. I don’t think it’s at all townie how hard he’s been pushing this bus theory, it screams possible tmi to me, like scum maybe actually knew this.

If it is exactly Kitty/Kyuku/Imaginality, @Mastina, will you nom me for paragon?

Gamma too.

Have I actually solved this game on D2? It would make sense because no scumteam who is aware of my meta is ever suicidal enough to try to push me here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Have I actually caught 2 scum? That would be amazing. But it’s so freaking obvious that scum was trying to set us up that either Kyuku is the worst scumhunter in mafia history or he actually is scum. Rn, I’m leaning to yes.

You know what, this got me thinking and I have 0 of the good vibes I got from kyouko in mini 2213 rn
VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I feel like a bastard for this but it’s making enough sense and S&M has earned my trust

I was leaning town on them until he brought up that Flea post. That screamed blatant scum frame up to me and I think Distance is very obviously town.

And the way Kyuku said if we flip green, he’s going to push Distance to push his bussing theory, That was the first thing that pinged me. Kyuku is very obviously trying to chain miselims on us and Distance.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Definitely moment of brilliance at least
(I’m not sure which head is posting)

Nancy. All of the posts but the first are mine.

Scum looked at Flea’s post, killed fae and decided to frame me and then they were planning to miselim Distance. Scum doesn’t realize I’m really smart and can see through this crap and didn’t really care for Imaginality questioning me either and there is absolutely not a damn thing scummy about Distance calling himself obvtown.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Acutally, I'm going to follow up and VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko for post #179. Between that possible scum slip, and the downplaying of hitman... on which note, also if ssbm_Kyouko expects MO to draw the NK (per post #31) why didn't he suggest MO bid for scum powers like hitman instead of no-bid? I feel like he's scum hoping to pick up hitman for cheap.


And HEAL: imaginality

If Kyuku flips scum, possible distancing?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

On the powers: these all seem like pretty good powers for us to have or to keep out of scum hands. We can't block them since they have more cash. I think the best way to make sure they pay enough for them is if we all bid for exactly 1, bidding at least 401 for it, but randomly choosing which one to bid for (as in flip a coin twice, or use a 1-4 RNG). With 10 town players, that means there'd be a (3/4)^10 = 6% chance that no one bid for a particular power. So scum won't get any easy picks - if they want one they'll have to bid at least 402 for it, meaning we can outbid that player in future days.

I think that approach makes more sense than bidding for the one we individually decide is most important which could leave others 'easy pickings' for scum.

Numerically a good approach on days when all the powers are strong but hitman does not warrant 400 for a takeaway if the winning townie will live the day. This reminds me, under no circumstances (except extenuating deadline ones) should we hammer before claims in this game, even D1, as if a townie is going to be misexecuted, and they feel certain of it, they can potentially spend 500 on a scum role (today that is hitman) before they are hammered if they have not bid on anything yet.

It's also worth pointing out that based on the midday flip it appears that a single townie already bid their 500 dogebux by evenly spreading them amongst the 4 roles so our probability here is likely 8% rather than 6%, and that's only if all town follow the strat.

Hmm . . .

[Smoke and Mirrors]

5 hours after what is apparently scum trying to gauge where the town is bidding (whether Cyrus is scum or not, tbh he is the only player in the lobby I would say the 125 split is NAI for with confidence). They see nobody is bidding high yet. 5 hours later, in comes Imaginality to lead town toward spending 400 on all roles. Imagine scum dont bid on anything toDay. Town spends 1600,

loses 500, or 100 and a purchased role

, then in the likely situation that they avoid hitting the doctor target and get a kill, that's another 500 down.

The bolded part assumes we mis-exile. We could exile scum...
Even if we grant your assumption, we're 500 (or X and a purchased role) down x2 if scum successfully nightkill regardless of what bidding strategy we implement. It makes no sense not to bid hard - and without a PT the only way we can reliably cover all the PRs (enough to force scum to bid high for them) without scum knowing who to target for their NK is if we each choose randomly.

Where was this strategy before midday? We were already very deep into mechanical discussion when he made his previous post, so why not bring it up before midDay?

Hadn't thought of it by then. At first I was wondering if there was a way we could assign people by name to each PR but that gives scum too much information for their NK tonight and subsequent nights.

While his suggestion is appealing at first, even to me, from a numbers standpoint, I think what they are doing is baiting town into spending a lot of their money so that in later days scum can outbid.

We get our money back if we're outbid.
I think these roles are worth bidding for.
It's less advantageous to us to get roles on later days - less chance to use them, more chance to be NKed before using them.

The next bit gets tinfoil, but I would not be surprised to find out flea is the scum's preferred MO candidate and see that Imaginality eventually concedes and switches his vote there as I'm currently leading. Whether his means flea is scum or one of the scum has a friendly relationship with Flea that may lead Flea to elect that scum as a replacement, I do not know.

Right now if I vote someone other than me as MO I'd lean more towards Cupcake Butterfly.


@Misty re the scumslip: I felt the comment where ssbm assumed the 125 voter was town was suspicious - in that if he is scum (and they aren't the 125 voter(s)), he would know the 125 voter is town. So I feel that apparent assumption could be indicative of hidden knowledge.

look i did it and now scum is going let me win all 4 and kill me at night.

Cyrus, who

actually

made those bids doesn't make a difference to my point that

ssbm stating with certainty that town did it

(before you started hinting it was you) is suspicious.

Are you sure the bolded is your actual interpretation of my post (snipped below)?

It's also worth pointing out that based on the midday flip it appears that a single townie already bid their 500 dogebux by evenly spreading them amongst the 4 roles so our probability here is likely 8% rather than 6%, and that's only if all town follow the strat.

I admit I didn't remember the 'it appears' but I still think your decision to say 'townie' rather than 'player' is questionable. As is your downplaying of hitman in other posts.

I actually don’t know if this was a slip or not but it’s interesting that Imaginality is sussing on Distance and had a not great reaction to my response to Kyuku.

If Kitty/Kyuku/Imaginality is the team, I’d better get a scummie nom.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i should be obvtown after that flip

i feel like there would be more resistance to kyo mo though

What did you mean by 286?

scum want to get one of their own as mo

Very good point and that’s why I think CB is likely town, especially if Kyuku is scum. And no way is there a town that bad who seriously looks at Flea post and doesn’t immediately consider frame up. Too bad for Kyuku I jumped off VFP. It made his attempt to shitpush me so much harder.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VFP is pretty obviously miselimbait and Kyouku’s white knighting him.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

This post took a very long time to write on my phone. Please take the time to read it :/

Starting at 565, rereading S&M's ISO as they have accused me of acting in bad faith/ignoring their question:

In 610 you indicate I egregiously misunderstood you - what was it that I was misunderstanding? Could you clear that up for me?

639: this is the second time you've indicated I will eventually sr Imaginality and Gamma and ftr I'd already 180ed on Imaginality toward EoD1, and I believe neither of their votes on Kitty were a bus, and they dont have the same partner associations you and distance have with Kitty. I don't like their vote on me right now but they're generally bad at reading me from what I remember. Gamma will remember in 2213 how I, as a widely TRed townie, believed so strongly that he was town that I faked a guilty on another player who turned out to be town. I was right about Gamma then and I feel just as certain about VFP here. He is not dying toDay. I don't wk as scum.

If Gamma doesnt move off of me and I end up eliminated today, I urge you all to review 2213 and seriously consider Gamma's reasoning for voting me.

642 this is the first non-rhetorical question I've seen you post that I didn't already respond to, and even it borderlines on rhetorical. I do think there is a world where I am wrong about both you and Distance. I do not think we are in it, but I would bet the game on VFP being town here.

I am passing the MO to VFP as of right now.

643 here is where you provided a dissatisfactory answer to my question. I was asking specifically what you thought about the reasoning I provided at the time that I voted VFP at end of day 1? As a reminder/tldr, my reasoning was that Kitty seemed like the "default" plurality lim that was being slipped through by scum and that if scum wanted to lim Kitty, it made sense to me to lim anyone besides him. I saw Misty, who I was townreading at the time, voted VFP, a player I had an early scumread on, who I thought Gamma, another TR of mine, might be willing to vote. I then voted VFP and appealed to Gamma for assistance in eliminating VFP.

does any of my reasoning sound scummy to you? If so, please be specific. I believe you intentionally misinterpreted the intent of my question and avoided providing a complete answer. This was the original reason you cited for pushing me today and it is very important that you explain your reasoning, because as it stands your push appears to have been in bad faith.

652 here you ask if it is possible I was misunderstanding you. I interpreted from 565 where you originally shade me that you wanted town me to vote VFP, because In that post, you quote my vote count of the players on the VFP wagon as evidence. I think you were frustrated that I had lost interest in voting VFP after seeing the Kitty flip. This is unusual because VFP was counter to scum, so why would i want to vote him after that? And dont say I'm not voting him today for towncred, as i obviously dont need it, as is evidenced by the MO vote on D1.

I'll post the full quote for this one as there are embedded quotes that matter here and it's easier this way.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

I still do think this. Have you critically examined his ISO? I’m referring to his other reads and don’t understand why town!you are myopically only focused on Kitty?

I explained why I tr him and it had absolutely nothing to do with Kitty. Re-read my ISO because you seem to be ignoring any of my posts that don’t seem to fit your narrative.

I have critically examined Distance's ISO. I believe there are associations there that point to a team with you and Kitty. I do not believe there was evidence of genuine sorting as of post 347 which is where you cited that you TR him for genuine sorting. His other reads were by and large, shallow or unexplained townreads that are easily faked as scum. There is nothing that indicates to me that he was scumhunting as of 347.

I have now reread your iso from 565 to this post I quoted and I dont believe I ignored any of your posts that "dont fit my narrative." If such posts exist, please quote them for everyone to see, so you can actually provide evidence to support at least one bit of shade you're casting on me.

664 sorry if I'm making you feel personally attacked - whether you're scum or not - I don't see another reason for you to bring this up, but please try to look out for bolded text if you can. If I weren't phone posting almost all the time I would color code or something to try to make my posts more clear for you.

714 if it has to be someone off the wagon, I'm not really sure. Obviously I'm tunneled.right now but I would have to reread d2 and see. Gut instinct, if the Kitty wagon was pure, Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus. I'm still suspicious about him being around at deadline on d1. I think he was looking to buy hitman for 425. Its possible scum!cyrus thought Roleblocker but I doubt it. If it just has to be someone off of the wagon then maybe mastina gets thrown in too because I'm having a hard time.reading her D1 and was somewhat relying on other players like yourself to let me know if I should be worried about her right now (on D1). Was saving her to sort for later but as i see her as a possible alternative partner to scum!you, or potentially using town!you as a beard, I'd probably want to look at her the closest. Problem is I dont have time to do any of that with the deadline incoming. Its 2 am here...

716 which head posted this? If it was nancy not pooky, why didn't you quote this before when I asked about Flea crumbing/claiming cop bid?

717 which question are you referring to? I think it's in bad faith to not let me know which question in this post. I did you that courtesy several times because I really care about getting a complete answer to a very specific question. You're not helping me to TR you if you are town, and I really am and have been trying.

719 while this may come from frustrated town, for that very reason it is also an excusable way for scum to dismiss my push: "I’m not sure I even care about parsing you if you’re going to be this bad."

However, you bringing up this quote is making lean to you’re not being town, why? Because if you use your brain, it’s pretty damned obvious that scum is trying to set us up and if you’re scum with Kitty, you referencing that quote makes perfect sense.

First of all, it is not obvious to me, so could you explain? Second, saying "if you're scum with kitty" kind of feels like something you only say if you know kitty has different partners, since kitty is already flipped. Maybe that's just tunnel vision though. The verbiage is weird to me.

722 if it is so blatantly obviously a shitpush, then why are you not providing any evidence to refute my points? Why are you instead resorting to discrediting me if, by your own admission, it is obvious what is wrong with my push? This is not how town behaves.

724 I have made every effort to be transparent in my push on you and you have resorted to discrediting me the entire time. It is laughable that you would accuse me of acting in bad faith when all of the evidence points to the contrary.

727
I get that you would notice it because it was directed at you. What was unusual was that you happened to remember it. It seems like such a minor detail to be concerned about as town, but it makes sense for scum to keep track of it.

The rest of the posts I'll respond to individually.

Because I find it inconceivable that anyone would seriously think that I A) read that post, acknowledged it and referenced it and still B) would do that if I killed Flea. It would be like I’m trying to set myself up the next day and that’s why it read like a possible frame up to me, like scum saw that post Flea made and killed fae to frame me.

I think that’s what very likely happened and since you were the one who pointed it out and have been tunnelling me despite catching Kitty, it looked like it was you. I don’t feel personally attacked though but it’s extremely hard for me to not see it as a shitpush. I don’t think Distance is scum, so I honestly don’t get that read either. When Kitty made all of those reads, he didn’t know he was getting elimed, that’s why I think he’s spewed town. I think Kitty was in antispew and every name he did reference was town.

I asked you who do you think is scum off Kitty wagon because if I’m wrong about you, then that’s where I believe scum most likely are.

I just felt like you aren’t really trying to sort me.

Gamma’s town sheeping me I think.

Well, I know I’m town and yes I’m aware that doesn’t mean anything AI, so I obviously know that there aren’t any associatives between my slot and anyone. This isn’t how I play scum but you obviously wouldn’t know that.

How much time left?

Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus

I see you did answer. I don’t think Marci. I liked her posting. I hard tr Misty and SS hasn’t done anything to ping me. It’s a toss up with CB. This isn’t typically how they play either town or scum. Maybe take another look at Cyrus?

He had this strange post claiming I said things I know I didn’t, so maybe I shouldn’t have been so quick to tr the no execute?

UNVOTE:

for now.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Smoke and Mirrors is a hydra containing Pooky.
Pooky has never bussed on D1 as scum, ever.

Smoke and Mirrors is thus the locktown of the locktown for how D1 went down.

I think I addressed this somewhere already but just sk you know in case you're town and using that to TR the hydra, pooky was not present for the Kitty wagon.

How would you know? We have a PT together and he did post in it. Reread my interactions with Kitty again. I relentlessly grill her and only decided he’s pretty much confiscum when he comes back on line, claims to have time yet doesn’t answer any of my questions. If I was actually bussing Kitty or anyone for that matter, why even bother with that?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Sup homies


I’m town.

Nancy will be around to make this slot obviously town because she loves doing that.

Also I can’t believe Alisae roped me into playing this game and immediately repped out

Wild stuff

@Kitty Tacky, do me a favour please. The next time you decide to shade one of my or Pooky’s posts, please do us the courtesy of actually quoting the entire thing and not chopping the part of it that puts it into context. Thanks.

Hello everyone, I didn't play with any of you because I mostly played normals. VOTE: Alisae

Alright I was busy during the start of the thread, will post more later.

Yeah real life got in the way.

VFP seems quite town to me, personally. He has been quite helpful and just generally smelled town.

I’m town.

I don't like this.

@Gamma, I don’t understand the point of any of their posts so far.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

Are you going to bother to explain this or is it still because of that one line you plucked out of that post and deleted the context?

And are you also going to explain either A) why you did that and B) why it makes us scum?

Continuing to shade a slot without any explanation os making me think VFP might possibly be right about you.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Cool., you probably are scum then.

VOTE: KittyTacky

Again, no explanation for either this vote or previous sketchy shade.

@Distance why did you vote for Kitty?

You think they’re town? I’m asking myself if they’re really scummy town and tstbs or actually just scum. I have pretty much hated all of their posts so far.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

Are you going to bother to explain this or is it still because of that one line you plucked out of that post and deleted the context?

And are you also going to explain either A) why you did that and B) why it makes us scum?

Continuing to shade a slot without any explanation os making me think VFP might possibly be right about you.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Cool., you probably are scum then.

VOTE: KittyTacky

Again, no explanation for either this vote or previous sketchy shade.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

@Kitty Tacky are you just going to ignore my posts indefinitely?

When do you plan on actually responding to this?

Have more time now.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

I am comfortable saying so because in my past games townies had a very similar tone and played similarly. Maybe this logic is flawed?

What “similar” tone and how did they play “similarly”?

Similar to freaking what exactly? I want specifics and if you don’t satisfactorily answer my questions, I’m never unvoting you.

Have more time now.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

I am comfortable saying so because in my past games townies had a very similar tone and played similarly. Maybe this logic is flawed?

Kitty has “more time” but almost an entire hour has gone by and she hasn’t satisfactorily explained anything.

Do any of these seriously look like buddy posts?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You talk a lot don't you. I normally try to see who's off in games . Your talking a lot more now @ssbm

VOTE: s&m

Why is talking scummy? How is my posting off? And what happened to the no execute?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think I addressed this somewhere already but just sk you know in case you're town and using that to TR the hydra, pooky was not present for the Kitty wagon.

I am aware that Pooky has been having internet issues.

I still do not believe a scum Pooky lets his hydra partner break a meta that's, what, 20 years old by now? Damn near close to that long. Just because he wasn't the one to cast the vote doesn't mean that he can't have influence on the hydra.

I don’t have the kinds of interactions with a buddy that I had with Kitty. I don’t understand how anyone in the playerlist reading those interactions could possibly think they’re SvS.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So we only have to scum left ok I like my vote on s and m b but if as flips town and submit lives to day3

Your reasoning is I talk too much and you think it’s “off” and you haven’t actually explained any of it. I can post lot or post very little as either alignment, so that’s a dumb reason for voting us.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If you don't die your being voted off next. Scum tend to kill if they think they will get mo next.

You’re breaking the site.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think Cyrus is probably town but there was those weird questions. I don’t know.

no execute

for now

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler: The deep blue sea attracts my senses

Not much if you win your D1 bid, of course, but you get your money back if you're outbid.
If we get all four powers we still have six town players who can bid 400+ for other stuff D2.
I wouldn't recommend this for any mix of powers on D1, but in this case I think it's worth making sure we make these all pricey if scum want to outbid us, and this approach is the best I can see for ensuring we do that.

P-edit: yes, D2 it would not be smart to reveal who does/doesn't have money left.
Also that's why we should all bid 400+ on a random item today, as per my suggested approach, then scum can't gain any advantage by who they kill (beyond the usual factors).

I do not like you or like this. We have 4 days, and 16 items to bid on. You seem to be suggesting we just blow the lot today?

that queston wasnt ment for you so scum points for you for helping.

my bad it was ment for you lol.

*suspicious*

Actually I think 7 pages in we've got a pretty solid gamestate. Reads are being developed, and we've got equal amounts of generic vs mechanical discussion going.

For 21 posts I haven't seen more than maybe 2 reads?

I'm going to be honest, I'm a bit soured by the confrontation between you, VFP, and Alisae -

(on a GAME level, NOT personal.)

I didn't see a point in confronting Alisae as much as directing your attention to someone who you wanted to support. It didn't vibe as genuine to me that VFP was quick to credit Alisae and follow em but doubled back onto you whenever Alisae wanted to gain control of the thread.

I'm experienced with Alisae. Ey almost always goes for control unless they flake out. I thought you would recognize this if you had prior experience with em. The interaction felt in bad faith.

I'm not excusing Alisae turning off players or insulting their intelligence. Your feelings are valid. But I don't know if they're directed in a protown angle yet.

I keep my cards close, and I was speaking as a game general not as a me general. 21 posts, 2 reads I feel is quite loose for me. Whats your benchmark? What do you expect to see at Page 7? and from someone with 21 posts?

I do have some limited experience with Alisae and I know that generally e's a lovely person, I also know we can and will clash if our agendas oppose, which is the feeling I got there. This is the first time I've seen em go that hard on asserting control.

I can understand eir wanting to come in and take control after the last one OMB, however, I am not willing for someone to come in and made that kind of entry, attempt to become town leader, MO and then contradict themselves in their action and intent.

I've been on a bit of a high from how MO is going and thinking about the setup strategy but game is kinda stagnant otherwise actually and the pink cloud is fading. Got any juicy scumreads? (I don't think MO candidates should discuss TRs today as it may influence scum to vote an MO that could be more likely to designate a scum replacement)

None juicy.

Acutally, I'm going to follow up and VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko for post #179. Between that possible scum slip, and the downplaying of hitman... on which note, also if ssbm_Kyouko expects MO to draw the NK (per post #31) why didn't he suggest MO bid for scum powers like hitman instead of no-bid? I feel like he's scum hoping to pick up hitman for cheap.


And HEAL: imaginality

This is awful. This is absolutely awful given your own posting. You're showing awareness of the game mechanics while trying to lead town down a bad road.[/spoiler]

Spoiler: The tide is like the heartbeat of eternity

And look at what else is sus - midday hits. 125 each is apparently scum trying to gauge where town is bidding. It may even be that if cyrus is town they just withheld all bets, which explains why nothing was hidden at midDay.

5 hours after what is apparently scum trying to gauge where the town is bidding (whether Cyrus is scum or not, tbh he is the only player in the lobby I would say the 125 split is NAI for with confidence). They see nobody is bidding high yet. 5 hours later, in comes Imaginality to lead town toward spending 400 on all roles. Imagine scum dont bid on anything toDay. Town spends 1600, loses 500, or 100 and a purchased role, then in the likely situation that they avoid hitting the doctor target and get a kill, that's another 500 down. We go into D2 8:3 and scum still have the wallet to outbid us on auction detective, and potentially pick up scum roles on the cheap from townies that are down to 100.

Where was this strategy before midday? We were already very deep into mechanical discussion when he made his previous post, so why not bring it up before midDay?

While his suggestion is appealing at first, even to me, from a numbers standpoint, I think what they are doing is baiting town into spending a lot of their money so that in later days scum can outbid.

The next bit gets tinfoil, but I would not be surprised to find out flea is the scum's preferred MO candidate and see that Imaginality eventually concedes and switches his vote there as I'm currently leading. Whether his means flea is scum or one of the scum has a friendly relationship with Flea that may lead Flea to elect that scum as a replacement, I do not know.

The thing is while I may semi-seriously push myself, people who know me will know that I ultimately won't end the day voting myself and I will encourage others to vote elsewhere. People in this PL with the potentialy to buddy me are VFP and Mastina, and frankly I'd expect Mastina to be out for revenge after the last game :3 Gamma would be included but that is a corker of a hole to dig back out of.

starting to feel gamma is just a toxic player. so i most likely will just ignore them. as town i dont lie and as scum i still dont lie. so to think i lied or to even suggest i am urks me badly. read my scum games again gamma you will see i do not lie . even in life. my one fault and most likely why i stink at being scum is never ever lieing.

There is a thin line between a lie and twisted truth, that you consider Gamma toxic already speaks volumes.

fyi i wouldnt trust gamma to town the random shade comes off as scum.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald this gives gamma the most votes . so they are on the choping block.

This is bad vibes.

starting to feel gamma is just a toxic player. so i most likely will just ignore them. as town i dont lie and as scum i still dont lie. so to think i lied or to even suggest i am urks me badly. read my scum games again gamma you will see i do not lie . even in life. my one fault and most likely why i stink at being scum is never ever lieing.

okay then let's test that

are you scum

Beautiful.

cyrus’s mindset is weird enough that i kinda wanna call it town

I disagree, honestly. he is where I'm going to be voting at the moment because something seems so incredibly off, 2s2bs almost which is always worth a vote.

Spoiler: I feel warm and safe as I'm diving deeper

like actually what the fuck was to point of tacky's responding to that

Busybodying.

Spoiler: Into the heart of the ocean, I have no fear

Can people explain the Kyouko MO votes? I'm not really seeing much reason here other than "you sound smart" or is my assessment too critical?

Also, we're 18 hr with hardly any wagons. I can't tell whether town or scum is more active with this playerlist. I want to start hearing cases.

Players off the radar are always a concern for me.
And I know Nancy - if scum - will fully want to outbid me on the cop, given my last catch <3
ssbm seems to have their head on right mechanically, which is why I assume people are voting there.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

You don't particularrly spring to mind at the moment.

[/quote]

If anyone cares. Flea was most sus on Cyrus and Imaginality. So both of them might have had reason to kill fae. Hmm . . . this actually looks good for Kyouku.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler: The deep blue sea attracts my senses

Not much if you win your D1 bid, of course, but you get your money back if you're outbid.
If we get all four powers we still have six town players who can bid 400+ for other stuff D2.
I wouldn't recommend this for any mix of powers on D1, but in this case I think it's worth making sure we make these all pricey if scum want to outbid us, and this approach is the best I can see for ensuring we do that.

P-edit: yes, D2 it would not be smart to reveal who does/doesn't have money left.
Also that's why we should all bid 400+ on a random item today, as per my suggested approach, then scum can't gain any advantage by who they kill (beyond the usual factors).

I do not like you or like this. We have 4 days, and 16 items to bid on. You seem to be suggesting we just blow the lot today?

that queston wasnt ment for you so scum points for you for helping.

my bad it was ment for you lol.

*suspicious*

Actually I think 7 pages in we've got a pretty solid gamestate. Reads are being developed, and we've got equal amounts of generic vs mechanical discussion going.

For 21 posts I haven't seen more than maybe 2 reads?

I'm going to be honest, I'm a bit soured by the confrontation between you, VFP, and Alisae -

(on a GAME level, NOT personal.)

I didn't see a point in confronting Alisae as much as directing your attention to someone who you wanted to support. It didn't vibe as genuine to me that VFP was quick to credit Alisae and follow em but doubled back onto you whenever Alisae wanted to gain control of the thread.

I'm experienced with Alisae. Ey almost always goes for control unless they flake out. I thought you would recognize this if you had prior experience with em. The interaction felt in bad faith.

I'm not excusing Alisae turning off players or insulting their intelligence. Your feelings are valid. But I don't know if they're directed in a protown angle yet.

I keep my cards close, and I was speaking as a game general not as a me general. 21 posts, 2 reads I feel is quite loose for me. Whats your benchmark? What do you expect to see at Page 7? and from someone with 21 posts?

I do have some limited experience with Alisae and I know that generally e's a lovely person, I also know we can and will clash if our agendas oppose, which is the feeling I got there. This is the first time I've seen em go that hard on asserting control.

I can understand eir wanting to come in and take control after the last one OMB, however, I am not willing for someone to come in and made that kind of entry, attempt to become town leader, MO and then contradict themselves in their action and intent.

I've been on a bit of a high from how MO is going and thinking about the setup strategy but game is kinda stagnant otherwise actually and the pink cloud is fading. Got any juicy scumreads? (I don't think MO candidates should discuss TRs today as it may influence scum to vote an MO that could be more likely to designate a scum replacement)

None juicy.

Acutally, I'm going to follow up and VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko for post #179. Between that possible scum slip, and the downplaying of hitman... on which note, also if ssbm_Kyouko expects MO to draw the NK (per post #31) why didn't he suggest MO bid for scum powers like hitman instead of no-bid? I feel like he's scum hoping to pick up hitman for cheap.


And HEAL: imaginality

This is awful. This is absolutely awful given your own posting. You're showing awareness of the game mechanics while trying to lead town down a bad road.[/spoiler]

Spoiler: The tide is like the heartbeat of eternity

And look at what else is sus - midday hits. 125 each is apparently scum trying to gauge where town is bidding. It may even be that if cyrus is town they just withheld all bets, which explains why nothing was hidden at midDay.

5 hours after what is apparently scum trying to gauge where the town is bidding (whether Cyrus is scum or not, tbh he is the only player in the lobby I would say the 125 split is NAI for with confidence). They see nobody is bidding high yet. 5 hours later, in comes Imaginality to lead town toward spending 400 on all roles. Imagine scum dont bid on anything toDay. Town spends 1600, loses 500, or 100 and a purchased role, then in the likely situation that they avoid hitting the doctor target and get a kill, that's another 500 down. We go into D2 8:3 and scum still have the wallet to outbid us on auction detective, and potentially pick up scum roles on the cheap from townies that are down to 100.

Where was this strategy before midday? We were already very deep into mechanical discussion when he made his previous post, so why not bring it up before midDay?

While his suggestion is appealing at first, even to me, from a numbers standpoint, I think what they are doing is baiting town into spending a lot of their money so that in later days scum can outbid.

The next bit gets tinfoil, but I would not be surprised to find out flea is the scum's preferred MO candidate and see that Imaginality eventually concedes and switches his vote there as I'm currently leading. Whether his means flea is scum or one of the scum has a friendly relationship with Flea that may lead Flea to elect that scum as a replacement, I do not know.

The thing is while I may semi-seriously push myself, people who know me will know that I ultimately won't end the day voting myself and I will encourage others to vote elsewhere. People in this PL with the potentialy to buddy me are VFP and Mastina, and frankly I'd expect Mastina to be out for revenge after the last game :3 Gamma would be included but that is a corker of a hole to dig back out of.

starting to feel gamma is just a toxic player. so i most likely will just ignore them. as town i dont lie and as scum i still dont lie. so to think i lied or to even suggest i am urks me badly. read my scum games again gamma you will see i do not lie . even in life. my one fault and most likely why i stink at being scum is never ever lieing.

There is a thin line between a lie and twisted truth, that you consider Gamma toxic already speaks volumes.

fyi i wouldnt trust gamma to town the random shade comes off as scum.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald this gives gamma the most votes . so they are on the choping block.

This is bad vibes.

starting to feel gamma is just a toxic player. so i most likely will just ignore them. as town i dont lie and as scum i still dont lie. so to think i lied or to even suggest i am urks me badly. read my scum games again gamma you will see i do not lie . even in life. my one fault and most likely why i stink at being scum is never ever lieing.

okay then let's test that

are you scum

Beautiful.

cyrus’s mindset is weird enough that i kinda wanna call it town

I disagree, honestly. he is where I'm going to be voting at the moment because something seems so incredibly off, 2s2bs almost which is always worth a vote.

Spoiler: I feel warm and safe as I'm diving deeper

like actually what the fuck was to point of tacky's responding to that

Busybodying.

Spoiler: Into the heart of the ocean, I have no fear

Can people explain the Kyouko MO votes? I'm not really seeing much reason here other than "you sound smart" or is my assessment too critical?

Also, we're 18 hr with hardly any wagons. I can't tell whether town or scum is more active with this playerlist. I want to start hearing cases.

Players off the radar are always a concern for me.
And I know Nancy - if scum - will fully want to outbid me on the cop, given my last catch <3
ssbm seems to have their head on right mechanically, which is why I assume people are voting there.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

You don't particularrly spring to mind at the moment.

[/quote]

If anyone cares. Flea was most sus on Cyrus and Imaginality. So both of them might have had reason to kill fae. Hmm . . . this actually looks good for Kyouku.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

The variance in post counts does me a concern...

VOTE: cyrus for now, Distance really needs to pick up some slack...

In an odd move I'm actually not going to support anyone else for MO because ssbm while the reasonable take is making me raise an eyebrow a touch.

Actually, maybe not.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

votecount 2.4

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (1) - Cupcake Butterfly
Smoke and Mirrors (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (2) - Smoke and Mirrors - Gamma Emerald
Something_Smart (2) - VFP - Imaginality
cyrus62 (0)
imaginality (0)
marcistar (0)
Distance (0)
VFP (2) - Mastina - Distance
No exe (1) - Cyrus62

not voting (2) - Everyone else

day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-26 10:38:57)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Aution Detective - the top bet at the mid point is 5

2-shot Auction Detective - the top bet at the mid point is 365

2-shot Gravedigger - the top bet at the mid point is 25

2-shot Watcher - the top bet at the mid point is 100

[/quote]

3 hrs but he’ll apparently count actions after that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I've literally not gained anything from reading the past 3 pages

+1

I still don’t know who to vote for and Cyrus is breaking the site and using silly reasoning for his votes, which is unfortunately nai for him.

These deadlines suck as does the plurality thing. Odds are, we’re probably going to yeet town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

SS/Kyuku/VFP must contain 1 town at least.

I'm not cool with leaving this to a 1/3 plurality roll. I will shift to -probably SS- if I must.

And I'm not cool at ALL with a no lim.

Also Nancy, this alt is mean to explore a different style with mafia. I may have the same tonal range as before, but I'm intentionally making meta a less effective approach to sort me.

Yes, I see. I tend to suck at doing that. I always think I’ll play extremely differently on an alt but usually tend to wind up playing the same.

This game is extremely frustrating. I feel like I’m always rushing and feel pressured to know exactly what I’m doing at deadline. D1 it was actually easy since Kitty was so obviously scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I could see Kyouko/Imaginality but I don't know how that equates to a Kitty scum team.

I also don't think most scum players have the stamina to post-by-posy refute you, SM.

Probably true.

Well, Kyouku was pushing both us and Distance and Imaginality shades Distance as well and we know Kitty had us both as their srs, which is one of the many reasons I think Distance is town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

SS feels like a crystal ball or a mirror in games with him.

You either see your own reflection or a fragment on what's to come. So far I've just seen a mirror. Granted reping into a game with a day left to its already short ass deadline just to be turbolimmed has to fucking suck so like, sorry if that's the case SS - please post soon if you can.

For non game reasons I don't think mastina will be vocal by deadline. My push means means even less than it already did. Mmm...

SS/Kyuku/VFP must contain 1 town at least.

I'm not cool with leaving this to a 1/3 plurality roll. I will shift to -probably SS- if I must.

And I'm not cool at ALL with a no lim.

Also Nancy, this alt is mean to explore a different style with mafia. I may have the same tonal range as before, but I'm intentionally making meta a less effective approach to sort me.

Yes, I see. I tend to suck at doing that. I always think I’ll play extremely differently on an alt but usually tend to wind up playing the same.

This game is extremely frustrating. I feel like I’m always rushing and feel pressured to know exactly what I’m doing at deadline. D1 it was actually easy since Kitty was so obviously scum.

This reinforces the idea that at least 1 scum is a deepwolf, but i think another resides on VFP wagon. This assumes that the ganeatate points to VFP town which I think is plausible. I feel like if scum could've quockhammered a townie, they wouldn't because thwy would knowingly get turbo limmed with deadlines this short and votes coming down to "3? You're dead."

Yeah, I’m liking VFP more and more. I hard tr Misty but SS hasn’t done much but I don’t really see why he’s scummy?

But it seems it’s down to what wagons? Last VC isn’t up to date.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think SS is probably flipping town and I’m worried that we will lose if we keep voting half-asses wagons.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@cyrus am I correct in interpreting your post as:

"I like my vote on S&M, but if Something_Smart flips town and ssbm_Kyouko lives to Day 3, then I will have a scum read on ssbm"?

If this is an accurate assessment, how tf do we even fit into this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't find a reason that Misty is townie. I feel like their posts were too vague or simple and I think scum could've easily vied for Cop as much as town

I know we shouldn't read into rep outs, but I usually don't think town reps out when scum just flips.

SS is a very subtle player. It's hard to differentiate their activity and interest with their style and motives since they tend to be passive in even heated conflict. Look at their interaction with me a few pages ago, do you think they're trying to sort me or appease me by feeding into my thoughts?

And I'm not pleased with Distance's or Cyrus' post but these people can't all be scum.... plus Distance began a wagon on Kitty and had adequate time to deflect.

It’s hard to say but the setup is really frustrating, so who knows? I in general am not a fan of plurality elims.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

This reinforces the idea that at least 1 scum is a deepwolf, but i think another resides on VFP wagon. This assumes that the ganeatate points to VFP town which I think is plausible. I feel like if scum could've quockhammered a townie, they wouldn't because thwy would knowingly get turbo limmed with deadlines this short and votes coming down to "3? You're dead."

I've seen several people mention quick hammering (or quockhammering ) but I don't think scum

can

quick hammer under this rule set can they (except when it's already very close to deadline)? Like, if VFP got that extra vote when VFP was E-1 early this game day, we'd still carry on to end of market day and people could leave that wagon, and in theory it could even end up with someone else being eliminated.

Then I'm very interested to hear on what you think VFP's alignment is, and how the wagon might have influenced that read, alongside how it helps you read his wagoners.

I don't find a reason that Misty is townie. I feel like their posts were too vague or simple and I think scum could've easily vied for Cop as much as town

I know we shouldn't read into rep outs, but I usually don't think town reps out when scum just flips.

SS is a very subtle player. It's hard to differentiate their activity and interest with their style and motives since they tend to be passive in even heated conflict. Look at their interaction with me a few pages ago, do you think they're trying to sort me or appease me by feeding into my thoughts?

And I'm not pleased with Distance's or Cyrus' post but these people can't all be scum.... plus Distance began a wagon on Kitty and had adequate time to deflect.

It’s hard to say but the setup is really frustrating, so who knows? I in general am not a fan of plurality elims.

I'm not a fan of giving scum a free NK D: Even if we miselim, we still have a somewhat town-led directive to go off on. But I don't find strong reasons to scumread any of the following: {Gamma, SM, Kyouko, Imaginality, VFP} and can easily find reasons why each are town... hell, I'll even put Distance in here.

What do you think a Kitty-Mastina pair or Kitty-SS pair or Kitty-Mastina-SS team says about the game?

I don’t understand why you sr Mastina? SS typically doesn’t vote so it’s not really AI for him not to.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@CB, I don’t want to do that either but I don’t know who to vote for.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Anyway, I think CB is town, you’re genuinely solving and don’t really see any kind of agenda to any of your posts.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't follow Mastina's reads in congruence with her stance on the game. If she were lost or had little input, why are so many slots conftown to her? Why would she focus on a scumread that is already universally suspected (VFP) without really being in contact with VFP to deduce an alignment directly? More so, why tailor an associative between two more players (Cyrus/Me). The list feels convenient to navigate a wagon onto another player in the event of a VFP-townflip that I think is likely.

I'm thinking Mastina may have outside factors going on that could affect her gameplay (plus deadline is different than other games), but I've mainly seen Mastina-town as someone who is more vocal or direct in the thread with their voice - and I'm not seeing that here.

I also understand that I'm projecting in some degree... This is a play I personally see myself doing as scum.

I don’t see scum!Mastina voting Flea for MO then killing fae, I would think scum!Mastina would probably be voting a buddy. I think she actually did that in a game I was in - try to get her buddy into the top spot, so voting Flea for MO makes me also think this is her towngame.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think Cyrus is probably town but there was those weird questions. I don’t know.

no execute

for now

Why would we no exe here

Because I don’t know who to vote for. If you just don’t vote, it’s probably even worse.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

He's town is why. He was the alternative to Kitty.

Are these related? Why can't the two top wagons be S/S?

It’s possible but in most cases, it’s statistically far more likely to either be S/T or T/T than S/S. I can actually only recall one or maybe 2 games at the most where the top two wagons were S/S.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

And if people want to kill me because of what Misty did then I have 0 defense against that

Who do you think is scum? I don’t think you are but I need an alternative.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It’s possible but in most cases, it’s statistically far more likely to either be S/T or T/T than S/S.

Well when one of the wagons has flipped scum, they're statistically not very likely to be T/T. I'm not sure that leading wagons are S/S at a lower rate than you would see by chance?

Well that’s been my experience. Also there’s more townies, another contributing factor right?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Might as well VOTE: Distance

But like I said, I'm around and willing to switch.

I think he’s town. Who do you dislike off Kitty wagon?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Who do you think is scum? I don’t think you are but I need an alternative.

I guess my number one pick would probably be Distance, but I'm willing to compromise on almost anyone I don't townread (my townreads being VFP, mastina, S&M, maybe CB).

I really think SS is town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think he’s town. Who do you dislike off Kitty wagon?

{Cyrus, marci, ssbm} would be my exe pool then. I don't especially scumread any of them, though.

I liked Marci’s posting. I don’t know.

But I would rather have any of them flip over you.

VOTE: Cyrus

Idk? His vote on us was stupid. Kyouki could still be scum but he might be resolved?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I felt like ssbm has just been putting out general tryhard vibes all game. These are generally towny, but they don't have to be. Do you think he's town, Nancy? Why did you unvote him?

Could still be scum.

VOTE: Kyouku

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Cyrus

Why vote us instead of taking a stand?

Idk, I guess I could do either. What do you guys think? Kyouku or Cyrus?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So we only have to scum left ok I like my vote on s and m b but if as flips town and submit lives to day3

I don’t like this, he’s not trying to take a stand. We’re a safe vote and he knows it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So, I will go with which one of those two we can get 3 votes on. SS is almost certainly flipping town, so I want to save obvtown!SS rather than kill anyone. Who’s with me?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Well ssbm seems more likely to go through because he has an extra vote, but I'm pretty ambivalent between the two.

I can vote Kyouku too, whichever one will save you, I’ll do.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

This post took a very long time to write on my phone. Please take the time to read it :/

Starting at 565, rereading S&M's ISO as they have accused me of acting in bad faith/ignoring their question:

In 610 you indicate I egregiously misunderstood you - what was it that I was misunderstanding? Could you clear that up for me?

639: this is the second time you've indicated I will eventually sr Imaginality and Gamma and ftr I'd already 180ed on Imaginality toward EoD1, and I believe neither of their votes on Kitty were a bus, and they dont have the same partner associations you and distance have with Kitty. I don't like their vote on me right now but they're generally bad at reading me from what I remember. Gamma will remember in 2213 how I, as a widely TRed townie, believed so strongly that he was town that I faked a guilty on another player who turned out to be town. I was right about Gamma then and I feel just as certain about VFP here. He is not dying toDay. I don't wk as scum.

If Gamma doesnt move off of me and I end up eliminated today, I urge you all to review 2213 and seriously consider Gamma's reasoning for voting me.

642 this is the first non-rhetorical question I've seen you post that I didn't already respond to, and even it borderlines on rhetorical. I do think there is a world where I am wrong about both you and Distance. I do not think we are in it, but I would bet the game on VFP being town here.

I am passing the MO to VFP as of right now.

643 here is where you provided a dissatisfactory answer to my question. I was asking specifically what you thought about the reasoning I provided at the time that I voted VFP at end of day 1? As a reminder/tldr, my reasoning was that Kitty seemed like the "default" plurality lim that was being slipped through by scum and that if scum wanted to lim Kitty, it made sense to me to lim anyone besides him. I saw Misty, who I was townreading at the time, voted VFP, a player I had an early scumread on, who I thought Gamma, another TR of mine, might be willing to vote. I then voted VFP and appealed to Gamma for assistance in eliminating VFP.

does any of my reasoning sound scummy to you? If so, please be specific. I believe you intentionally misinterpreted the intent of my question and avoided providing a complete answer. This was the original reason you cited for pushing me today and it is very important that you explain your reasoning, because as it stands your push appears to have been in bad faith.

652 here you ask if it is possible I was misunderstanding you. I interpreted from 565 where you originally shade me that you wanted town me to vote VFP, because In that post, you quote my vote count of the players on the VFP wagon as evidence. I think you were frustrated that I had lost interest in voting VFP after seeing the Kitty flip. This is unusual because VFP was counter to scum, so why would i want to vote him after that? And dont say I'm not voting him today for towncred, as i obviously dont need it, as is evidenced by the MO vote on D1.

I'll post the full quote for this one as there are embedded quotes that matter here and it's easier this way.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

I still do think this. Have you critically examined his ISO? I’m referring to his other reads and don’t understand why town!you are myopically only focused on Kitty?

I explained why I tr him and it had absolutely nothing to do with Kitty. Re-read my ISO because you seem to be ignoring any of my posts that don’t seem to fit your narrative.

I have critically examined Distance's ISO. I believe there are associations there that point to a team with you and Kitty. I do not believe there was evidence of genuine sorting as of post 347 which is where you cited that you TR him for genuine sorting. His other reads were by and large, shallow or unexplained townreads that are easily faked as scum. There is nothing that indicates to me that he was scumhunting as of 347.

I have now reread your iso from 565 to this post I quoted and I dont believe I ignored any of your posts that "dont fit my narrative." If such posts exist, please quote them for everyone to see, so you can actually provide evidence to support at least one bit of shade you're casting on me.

664 sorry if I'm making you feel personally attacked - whether you're scum or not - I don't see another reason for you to bring this up, but please try to look out for bolded text if you can. If I weren't phone posting almost all the time I would color code or something to try to make my posts more clear for you.

714 if it has to be someone off the wagon, I'm not really sure. Obviously I'm tunneled.right now but I would have to reread d2 and see. Gut instinct, if the Kitty wagon was pure, Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus. I'm still suspicious about him being around at deadline on d1. I think he was looking to buy hitman for 425. Its possible scum!cyrus thought Roleblocker but I doubt it. If it just has to be someone off of the wagon then maybe mastina gets thrown in too because I'm having a hard time.reading her D1 and was somewhat relying on other players like yourself to let me know if I should be worried about her right now (on D1). Was saving her to sort for later but as i see her as a possible alternative partner to scum!you, or potentially using town!you as a beard, I'd probably want to look at her the closest. Problem is I dont have time to do any of that with the deadline incoming. Its 2 am here...

716 which head posted this? If it was nancy not pooky, why didn't you quote this before when I asked about Flea crumbing/claiming cop bid?

717 which question are you referring to? I think it's in bad faith to not let me know which question in this post. I did you that courtesy several times because I really care about getting a complete answer to a very specific question. You're not helping me to TR you if you are town, and I really am and have been trying.

719 while this may come from frustrated town, for that very reason it is also an excusable way for scum to dismiss my push: "I’m not sure I even care about parsing you if you’re going to be this bad."

However, you bringing up this quote is making lean to you’re not being town, why? Because if you use your brain, it’s pretty damned obvious that scum is trying to set us up and if you’re scum with Kitty, you referencing that quote makes perfect sense.

First of all, it is not obvious to me, so could you explain? Second, saying "if you're scum with kitty" kind of feels like something you only say if you know kitty has different partners, since kitty is already flipped. Maybe that's just tunnel vision though. The verbiage is weird to me.

722 if it is so blatantly obviously a shitpush, then why are you not providing any evidence to refute my points? Why are you instead resorting to discrediting me if, by your own admission, it is obvious what is wrong with my push? This is not how town behaves.

724 I have made every effort to be transparent in my push on you and you have resorted to discrediting me the entire time. It is laughable that you would accuse me of acting in bad faith when all of the evidence points to the contrary.

727
I get that you would notice it because it was directed at you. What was unusual was that you happened to remember it. It seems like such a minor detail to be concerned about as town, but it makes sense for scum to keep track of it.

The rest of the posts I'll respond to individually.

Because I find it inconceivable that anyone would seriously think that I A) read that post, acknowledged it and referenced it and still B) would do that if I killed Flea. It would be like I’m trying to set myself up the next day and that’s why it read like a possible frame up to me, like scum saw that post Flea made and killed fae to frame me.

You're probably right in that it doesnt make sense that you would reference it if you killed flea, but I was thinking it was a slip. There are enough people saying this is TvT, and I had the same thought before I looked at flea's cop crumb, so for now I'll go with that. If you're scum good job I guess, you out-wifomed everyone and yelled your way out of it.

I think that’s what very likely happened and since you were the one who pointed it out and have been tunnelling me despite catching Kitty, it looked like it was you. I don’t feel personally attacked though but it’s extremely hard for me to not see it as a shitpush. I don’t think Distance is scum, so I honestly don’t get that read either. When Kitty made all of those reads, he didn’t know he was getting elimed, that’s why I think he’s spewed town. I think Kitty was in antispew and every name he did reference was town.
color=blue]I meant I dont see why you'd bring up adhd add dyslexia if you didn't feel personally attacked, not that my push was in any way personal. Anyways, I'll still have to look at Distance in later days if we're not hitting scum off of the Kitty wagon, I'm not convinced by his iso. Maybe he can change that toMorrow.[/color]

I asked you who do you think is scum off Kitty wagon because if I’m wrong about you, then that’s where I believe scum most likely are.

I just felt like you aren’t really trying to sort me.

Gamma’s town sheeping me I think.

Well, I know I’m town and yes I’m aware that doesn’t mean anything AI, so I obviously know that there aren’t any associatives between my slot and anyone. This isn’t how I play scum but you obviously wouldn’t know that.

How much time left?

Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus

I see you did answer. I don’t think Marci. I liked her posting. I hard tr Misty and SS hasn’t done anything to ping me. It’s a toss up with CB. This isn’t typically how they play either town or scum. Maybe take another look at Cyrus?

He had this strange post claiming I said things I know I didn’t, so maybe I shouldn’t have been so quick to tr the no execute?
color=blue]I don't know. I'm worried he's just mislim bait with the way he plays but i haven't see evidence he's trying to sort (as I recall without ISOing), and i do think he was around last time to bid at the last minute which doesnt make sense if he is town. I'm willing to knock mastina off this list for now as well as she has presented some decent efforts, though I dont agree with her conclusions on VFP. My misty read was weaker, like nulltown, and I was biased towards town on her because she was voting me for MO. I think she flipped to herself late D1 which pinged me and maybe that's where the feelings come from. I do know I never.felt strongly.she was town and S_S also seems lacking. Marci has also felt a bit shaky like misty did, but I think she is town here. I get the feeling she believes what she's posting and it's not agenda-driven, so maybe her plan as scum is meshing with the state of the game and she's coasting but I would prefer to go elsewhere toDay.[/color]

UNVOTE:

for now.

I responded in blue inside your quote, hopefully that helps

I’m definitely town. So is SS and we need 4 votes elsewhere to save him.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

My main gripe with Kyouko was the public justification to get hitman. It felt a bit like theatre using Cyrus as a scapegoat to acquire a scum-PR.

Hmmmmmm... But I don't have strong feelings on Cyrus either way, and while Kyouko doesn't give me warm fuzzy vibes, does that mean scum really?

I really just want to save bleeding obvtown!SS here, so either wagon is better.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Smoke and Mirrors is a hydra containing Pooky.
Pooky has never bussed on D1 as scum, ever.

Smoke and Mirrors is thus the locktown of the locktown for how D1 went down.

I think I addressed this somewhere already but just sk you know in case you're town and using that to TR the hydra, pooky was not present for the Kitty wagon.

How would you know? We have a PT together and he did post in it. Reread my interactions with Kitty again. I relentlessly grill her and only decided he’s pretty much confiscum when he comes back on line, claims to have time yet doesn’t answer any of my questions. If I was actually bussing Kitty or anyone for that matter, why even bother with that?

I thought you said he hadn't been able to get on discord and assumed he was still not around as your hydra's posts all seemed to come from Nancy

He did post in our PT though. He was the ond who bid on cop.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Kyouku, SS is bleeding obvtown, do you want to stop bleeding obvtown from flipping or not?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't have confidence that I meta-read SS well even in my top reading games.

Please towncase SS, Nancy.

I don’t know honestly if we even have time for that. This is definitely town!SS here and if nothing changes, we’re killing obvtown.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Can we please save obtown!SS and worry about me later? He’s dying unless we do something.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not asking for a wall to justify SS-town... but something beyond "save bleeding obvtown" is helpful.

I’m not great at explaining these things especially when I’m so tired but absolutely nothing is pinging me or points away from it not being town!SS. I don’t think Misty rep out was AI. I find the plurality thing and extremely brief deadlines really exasperating.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

There's only on vote on SS, though?

Kyouku said SS was flipping?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

How do tied votes work?